159 - Becky Love-Kerley Pt 3: People Want One of the Three Hs

Continue with operating theatre nurse, embedded learning facilitator, and Birmingham and Somerset, United Kingdom native Honoured Guest Becky Love-Kerley as she chats about her superpower, helping others transition from handholding to stretching their wings, the incredible NHS version of preceptorship, her introduction to practice, Restorative Clinical Supervision and reflective conversation, the “nail in the forehead” video (not fixing other people’s problems), people wanting one of the three Hs, spreading joy and happiness, and more!

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Transcript

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Well, welcome back to part three. And as we insinuated in the intro, which if you didn't hear, you're have to go back and listen to, but I guess we're talking about the three stages of life. Nothing too, you know, deep here, just keeping it simple, talking about opening up with death and grief, and then moving on to imposter syndrome. And now, here we're gonna open up with kind of, I guess it is in reverse order, kind of like what I insinuated in the intro, which is that we're talking about the beginning of new nurses careers, right? Like that, burgeoning birth of the nurse. I don't know, that's a weird way of saying it, but I guess that's what it is. So we ended the last episode, Becky. Thank you for being here talking about, ah you know, handholding isn't a thing. And so now I want to talk about when handholding is a thing. It's so confusing. But before we do, a little bit more insight into you, because I loved your answers to these questions. Question number one, I loved your answer to what is your superpower? Well, um I am naturally incredibly clumsy, which can be tricky managing the role of a scrub nurse where you are sterile and you can't drop anything or touch your face or any of those things. yeah, whenever I told my friends that's what I did, they're like, you. So there's a little nickname. There's a nickname that I got called, which is Berkey. So Berk is a kind of a British term, like just someone stupid and a bit kind of buffoon like. So, Berkey. But it's fine. It was in love, or so I'd like to think. So, yeah, one of the good sides of being incredibly clumsy is that I become quite good at making minor fixes and repairs to lots and lots of things. So, um if people break stuff, they bring it over to me and I tinker with it. I have a 3D printer, so I might make like a replacement part or craft something in resin or, I don't know. I do lots of sewing and craft stuff, so I have a whole huge wall of craft supplies which can usually be turned into something if I try. yeah, fixing, making, in the UK we'd call them bodge jobs. I don't know what you guys might say, like a bodge job. It's like not a very em finessed finish, but it works, you know? It's good enough to get the job done. That's me. Yes. for. Yes. 100%. I am the personification of duct tape. There you go. Oh, I just can't, my gosh. um So then I have to ask you, circling back around to the whole hobby of your love of board games and things of that nature, then I'm putting math together and thinking 3D printer, resin pieces, have you ever made your own games and or just replaced pieces that you... yeah, so in our podcast, if anybody wants to listen to you, please feel free. It's called the Who's Turn Is It Anyway podcast. um I did an episode all about blinging up your games. So my favorite pastime, well, maybe not favorite pastime, but really high up there is, yeah, is kind of um personalizing pieces. So if you can get like a regular cardboard token. I want to make a shiny, spangly, I don't know, 3D something, colours, get the nail varnish out, paint it, all sorts of stuff. Yeah, so I like blinging up my board games and making them kind of, I would say, deluxified, but maybe it's not always delux. I love it! I love it. Okay, and then the second question, the second get to know you question, which I also loved your answer to, because you seem very well read and a fine student of uh television and theater, so it would behoove me to ask you, what fictional character do you most identify with? It was only when you asked me that I just realised I can't think of a character in a book that I identify with or a TV series, which is so ridiculous because I'm a voracious reader, I love watching TV, I do go to the theatre, I love everything that's fantasy and sci-fi and out of there, but I can't think of a character that I relate to and I think possibly it's because I read books or watch movies or whatever to escape or to learn things. uh I recently watched The Imitation Game, which is a film about Alan Turing, I don't know if you've heard of Alan Turing, and The Enigma Code. And I actually cried at the end of it because it's such a beautiful film about this amazing guy who, super clever, managed to figure out the German Enigma Code. uh And you made me cry because of how cruelly our government treated him at the end and our health service, which I'm so proud to be a part of. played its part in his eventual death by suicide. um He was a gay man and back then in the 40s, 50s, 60s that was not okay. um And he was given medication to chemically castrate him and he, yeah, it led to his death by suicide a year later. And it's just, it's the most beautiful film but just so heartbreaking. And I think watching films like this is just really important because it does remind us how far we've come. in our acceptance of people's differences, but there is always more that we can do to remove inequality because it's there for all to see and we're just being naive if we ignore it and think it isn't a problem anymore. We're just probably part of the group that aren't having the problems. Absolutely, and that's what I want to say is like how far we still have yet to go. you know, uh again, moment of transparency, you know, you are honored guests, they fill out a nice little form and they'll put in, you know, I've had as much as absolutely nothing returned to me all the way to like literally paragraphs and chapters and multi pages like uh of an outline. Shout out Morgan Johnson, our first honored guest who is so organized. I was like, oh my gosh, and everywhere in between. And yet, this, you know, this form that I get back from you, Becky, that's why I brought that up and I wanted to make sure that made one of your episodes because I see that you write about the imitation game in there. And I was like, that's a movie that had made kind of my radar kind of in the periphery, but I had never taken the moment to watch. Because you need to be in a moment where you're like, OK, I know this movie is more serious and I need to be in a place where I'm ready to watch this. And so I. reading stuff on your phone while you're watching. It is a sort of a concentration episode, effort sort of thing. Yeah. Yes. And so when I saw that in your thing, said, I'm watching that before I sit down with her. And so I did. And I'm a huge fan of Benedict Cumberbatch and, you know. Benedict Cumberbatch. He does us Brits proud, doesn't he? Wow. tell you what, Sherlock and my daughters, two of my daughters and myself, the whole Sherlock series and I just, oh, just love it. anyway, long story short, just absolutely, I mean, everybody does a wonderful job in that movie, but I mean, just the range that that gentleman has and the story, like you said, you know, I, my wife knows and I've made no bones about it on the podcast. I cry at the drop of a hat. And typically during a movie, during a film, even animated, like it doesn't matter if it's, if it's, there with you. Eric, I'm there with you. Oh, don't even get me started on that. Me and my housemate were in absolute torrents of tears. We almost had to pause it and just take a minute because blimey, that one kicks you in the face. It's just awful. I know. whenever I, so what, you know, we watched it in the theater the first time and then like anytime my kids would watch it or I would choose to watch it at home. If we watched it as a family, I had to step out of the room. I'm like, I do not feel like crying this way yet again. And I just, oh, anyway. Okay. So. have book series that I'm like that with. I love them so much, I can't pick them up again because I don't have enough emotional battery to read that. Robin Hobb is one of my favourite authors. don't know if you've ever heard of Robin Hobb. Oh, well, um it started off as a trilogy of trilogies. So the first kind of series is nine books. I feel like she kind of then maybe went off off a little bit after that, but however, I'll just ignore that one. The first three are about a bastard son of a king. So he's like a, he's royal, but he's not, and he was been brought into the castle or wherever. So it's in a world where there is kind of magic, as in not quite wand waving magic, but sort of telepathy and that kind of magic, but also um almost like a beast magic where some people can communicate with animals. Now that is seen as very dirty and disgusting and not to be born, whereas the other higher magic is like, that's usually uh sort of concentrated around the royal family. So basically it's growing up of this child who, spoilers, happens to have both of these magics in him and his kind of difficulty. So it gets right to the end of his kind of journey, I suppose. Then you've got the next three, which you think, ha ha, you think they're completely unconnected. but they're not. They're set in a same world, but in a country much further to the south. And there's a character that runs all the way through them. I'm not going to spoil this because it's just brilliant. And you kind of, for a start, you're like, no, no, tell me about Fitz again. I want to read more about Fitz. But you very quickly forget about him because you're with these new characters. And then you read the third three and the two worlds collide. And I remember lending these books to my mum, who did not like sci-fi and fantasy books at all. she was very much into, she liked murder mysteries and stuff. And I said, but mum, you've got to these books. The characterisation is just amazing. And I knew when she was about to get to the big reveal where the character that you think is completely separate then turns out to be this same person all along. And I remember hearing her discover that I could, she went, Becky, that, and I was like. She was in bed when she was reading it, but I knew when she was getting to that point and I had to run in. was like, I know. And she was like, but it's, it was just, it was beautiful for me. And yeah, after she died, we sorted out all of her belongings and things. And even though I've got all of those books, I took her collection of those books and I do lend my books out to people, but I never lent these ones. These are like mine because they were hers. But those books, yeah, Robin Hobb. The first ones are called The Assassin's Apprentice. Okay. if you like fantasy and sci-fi, but be prepared because, it's an emotive journey. Yeah. even if you don't like fantasy or sci-fi because your mom was able to digest it and get totally hooked, so... interested in anything fantasy-orientated at all, but even she liked these. Well, so I mean, that's incredible. Like here you are exposing your mom to a world that she's not familiar with and another ham-handed segue into what we're talking about with this hand-holding with nursing students and things like that. um you had a couple other topics you definitely wanted to touch on and that's where we're gonna wrap this episode up with. uh And I don't know how the two necessarily relate. So forgive me for throwing them both out at the same time, but we can naturally progress through whichever one's first and all the things. But you mentioned this preceptorship, something you want to talk about, as well as development of restorative clinical supervision. How do those relate? And they both feel like they lend themselves to this easing someone's way into the beginning of their career, yes? Yeah. So I feel that's kind of the space I like to occupy is that kind of transitioning between needing a handheld, but giving someone the confidence to stretch their wings that little bit more. Cause I think it's only in that uncomfortability. That's not a word, but it's only in that uncomfortability when you do the proper learning that when you feel moments of dissonance of, I haven't got this or whatever. That's when the true learning for me anyway happens. So uh the NHS, which is our lovely National Health Service, uh have a nationwide programme, but I guess each trust, each hospital maybe does it slightly differently. So we do a thing called preceptorship, which is our method of supporting newly qualified nurses and operating department practitioners and to be honest, any registrant. So it could be paramedics, could be radiographers and any kind of uh qualified position. uh It's a year long programme of sort of enhanced support. So it's about seven and a half hours of protected time a month where you meet with your preceptor, which is kind of like a mentor really, but you don't necessarily work with them all the time. You have a scheduled meeting with them every month. Five face-to-face development days where preceptees, which is the person who's going through the program, preceptees, uh from all across the hospital in different roles come together, which is fantastic for many reasons, one of which is networking. So you can kind of have understandings of what's going on around the different hospitals, what the different areas of the hospital. Because it isn't solely nursing focused, but it's focused on all those things that are common to all roles in healthcare, communication, leadership skills, which doesn't have to be being a leader, but anybody can have those leadership skills and be a role model, that sort of thing. Research and quality improvement and reflective practice. So our preceptees. have this year-long, I guess it's like a booklet that follows them. So it means that you have to, I say have to, but you're scheduled in a definite time when you can meet with your preceptor and have a chat about goals, make goals, kind of see how you're doing with your goals from before, talk about some of the stuff that they learnt in their five face-to-face days. And it just means that you've got this shared space that is safe. that you can talk to other people that are making that really quite terrifying leap from being not qualified to feeling all of that responsibility, which I definitely felt for me 100%. I remember something I used to do when I was first working in theatres. It looked like this amazing choreographed dance at the end of a case that all this stuff happens together and I just stand there thinking, I don't want to get in anyone's way, but I want to do something helpful. And I noticed that at the end of the case when they'd done this thing called the final count, which is where you count all your swabs and instruments, that meant in a minute they're going to go into the sluice and get rid of their stuff. So I'd start taking the bin bag out of the bin because I noticed that happened every time at that point. So I started building up these kind of landmarks. And I think that's something that I think perceptorship kind of helps you generate is these landmarks in your particular em area. So I can't really speak much of a wards, but. I'm sure there are these things that happen all the time. Make yourself little notes, make yourself a little flow chart, make yourself a little tick box list. Have these landmarks in order to be able to, sure, do all the stuff that you're meant to do, but actually take that time to look back and go, do you know what? Today I did really well. And that might not look like anything special. That might not be a patient bought me a big bouquet of flowers to say I did well. It doesn't have to look like that. Did you tick off all of your landmarks? Did you have those goalposts that you can go, no, do you know what, today, today I did well. And that might just be simply remembering to, I'm trying to think of a ward thing now, which I'm not going to be very good at. Did I remember to get all the dispensing drugs? I don't know what the ward stuff would be, but just those small things. Did today, did I need the prompt? Did I not need the, you might find that you write all these things down and actually the day that you realize, I've got it today, is the day that you didn't need to look at your notebook. but you can guarantee if you didn't have your notebook, you may have forgotten to do lots of stuff. Have those landmarks, have those goals that can give you the power to look back and realize and do that reflection, I think to nursing is so, so important. I did the thing. I did the thing well. I'm succeeding in this. And especially if you suffer from imposter syndrome like me, have those things that you can carry around and you can realize, no. I'm doing well with this. meeting expectations. I'm doing the stuff that's asked of me. Because having that, you can wear that like a real coat. It can keep you warm and it can keep you feeling better. It's my experience of it anyway. So that's kind of perceptorship for us anyway. you've said it lasts a year and forgive me if I missed this point but how often do they come together all the preceptes? So they have five em face-to-face days a year. So it's every couple of months, but you must meet with your mentor, your line manager, your ward manager, whoever it is, basically says, yes, I will protect seven and a half hours on your rotor, your schedule, your whatever that you will meet with your preceptor. They have to guarantee that for the preceptor as well. it's kind of managing to earmark, it's managing to actually protect this time, give you seven and a half hours a month. I mean, there's probably, hopefully there's more time that you might have with your perceptor than that, but you are guaranteed the seven and a half hours of time with your mentor, perceptor, to discuss the things that you need to discuss. And it guarantees that you have that. So forgive me if I didn't hear you correctly. Again, the downside to doing three part episodes here is that this blonde brain, there's so many things to keep up on, and finally you get to a point where it's like, I wanna keep talking, but I can't keep it all together in this brain of mine. That being said, with the preceptorship, did you have that experience yourself? I was just gonna say, so. I mean, is this something you look on with envy now or you know what mean? Well, I had a really excellent um start, I think. My final placement was in General Theatres and I came from a time when you could request your final placement. Our nursing students don't have that luxury anymore. I stayed in the same place, literally the same theatre, from when I was a student to then being qualified. um So all of the people that had nurtured me... to start with, they all knew exactly what level I was at. They knew what I'd done, what I hadn't done, how many times I'd done whatever. um And I had a really great mentor. um She now works in a different hospital. She actually works in a private uh healthcare place now. um And I think we look at that from the NHS, we look at it a little bit with jealousy because we think maybe they have an easier time, but I don't think they do. It's just different, isn't it? It's just different. So she works there now and... em she was a fantastic mentor. She, as a nurse in theatre, em I hadn't learned anything about these clinical skills you need to be a theatre nurse. That is not part of our British educational sort of programme, I guess. So I had to learn everything from day one being a student, whereas that is different to our operating department practitioner. And they have basically their entire three years of training is in theatre in a scrub role, an anaesthetic role or a recovery role. So as a nurse you are a little bit disadvantaged really. um But it's strange because nurses are still a little bit of historic, we're better than ODPs. Now I absolutely completely disagree with that but I think that is still a bit of an old fashioned kind of a thing. The ODP uh degree has only been in for I want to say maybe 10 years and the actual role of an ODP has only been quite sanctioned is the correct word, but I the early 2000s, think. So it's still a new role relative to nursing, which obviously goes back to, well, goes back to the dark ages, doesn't it? So yeah, my mentor was fantastic. She taught me everything she knew. em And I hope that I give my students a similar experience to the one she gave me, which was definitely there as a handhold to start with. And then look, I'm going to step here, I'm going to be in the theatre, I'm not going to go anywhere, I'm going to stand here though, but I've got you, know, if anything happens, I can jump straight in. And that to me was absolutely just the best thing she could have done because I would never have wanted to let go of the safety, the kind of safety catch. So her being there, but not being involved was perfect for me because it's hard to let go, isn't it? It's really hard. And I love that picture because maybe this part won't even make the episode, depending on if my son's okay with it. I'm sure he will be, but we always like to check. But I literally just went to my son as, you know, as our children are venturing into adulthood and learning how to take these things on in themselves. You know, he had his first like doctor's appointment as an adult scheduled for this morning. And we knew it was on the books and all things. And last night he's like, hey, dad, you know, and we're in that awkward time where it's like sometimes, you know, it's like, hey, can I... talk to you about some stuff? Yeah, let's go for it. And other times I can't get a word out of him. And so last night I come home from work and he's like, hey dad, my appointment's tomorrow morning. I was like, oh yeah, you ready? Did you make your list of things you wanna make sure you wanna talk about? Yeah, he goes, you're coming with me though, right? I said, do you want me to? And he said, yeah, absolutely. And so this morning, of course, then you fast forward to this morning and he had stayed up late and all the things got up early for this appointment and it's just not super talkative. But I just said, hey man, I'm here for you. I will be in the background. It's you're the one doing the, know, and he's on the autism spectrum, high functioning. So it's this extra challenge of learning the social cues and all that. So I just said, I'm here in the background. You make sure you let them know that you've invited me here. And then if you need to refer to me for something, great. But otherwise I'm talking, I'm just here as that safety net that you're talking about. And it's just so important, I feel like, especially in nursing. uh Any career when you're starting off new to have those resources so the lesson the takeaway for anyone out there listening, please Obviously if you don't have if your facility if wherever you're going where wherever you start practicing doesn't have preceptorship Formalized if you don't have a mentor find one even if it's informal, you know, hey, do you mind taking me under your wing? You seem like a person I'm you know, I can get along with someone I you know resonate with for some reason Can you help me navigate these difficult things that you don't learn in school, right? Yeah. think the, I would have liked to have kind of maybe chosen someone who, mainly not in this particular set up because the person I had was fantastic, but in another like ward basis where I didn't naturally feel that this is my kind of area, I would naturally gravitate to the people that looked really competent but calm because I think they were the things that I felt that I lacked. Definitely didn't feel competent, definitely didn't feel calm. Maybe I looked more calm than I was, perhaps, but... it was almost like, like kind of magnets and poles, like, they have this thing and I don't have this thing. I want to... I was attracted to being around that particular nurse, one I remember in our coronary care unit. She was just calm. Like, those areas could be really fraught, but she didn't... She wasn't the... I know everything. She wasn't the fount of all knowledge, although she was. but she didn't have that kind of, you don't need to announce how clever you are. If you're really clever, people get it. And this was her all over. I wanted to kind of learn a bit of that kind of calm technique. And yeah, she was fantastic at that. and to be able to emulate that in your own career, whether that's sooner or later, like that whole thing. So then the last topic before we kind of close in our semi-traditional manner, uh you also wanted to talk about this RCS, restorative clinical supervision. What is that? What does that look like? so it sounds really um very scientific, doesn't it? Restorative clinical supervision. clinical practice is being supervised or something awful. I think it's intended to basically the whole thing is quite fluffy, I would say. So think they give it a very non-fluffy title to make it more approachable for those people that go, oh, that people scoff at that kind of, I don't need to sit down and talk about my feelings. No, this is ridiculous. when we all know that that's just not a helpful attitude. And the people that have that attitude are the very people that need the kind of em talking and safe space to do that. So something that has come up em in UK hospitals anyway, I think it was started by PAPS Midwifery and the kind of Gainey sort of services was em this place that they need, they realise the emotional load that this job, that our job can... place on people. So it kind of just allows a creation of a thinking space. you can kind of, it's taken place either in groups or one-on-one. So it consists of a restorative clinical supervisor, facilitator person, and the people receiving the supervision. It basically allows staff to slow down sort of their process of thinking, discussion, have a reflective conversation, and sometimes sort of polite challenge which can be difficult um and feedback it absolutely isn't a space where you say have you tried this thing because as nurses uh we're all problem solvers that's our superpower right we're all good at this we this is a thing that's going on here we go this I fix it so that's been one of my challenges as a restorative clinical supervisor facilitator is not to volunteer the answer because that's absolutely not what it's about. um It allows a person to contemplate different sort of perspectives and hopefully broadens the thought out. It's not counselling. I would say it's kind of counselling adjacent sort of. It can help that kind of resilience, which is a huge thing with nursing, I think, and recovery by either validating their actions and thought processes or helping them to kind of question why they did what they did, but still validating the process that they had at the time, because none of us do things just randomly. There's always some form of logic, although it might be faulty, we're doing it because of a thing. um And it just helps people have the capacity to learn or perhaps change how they might react in another situation if they're faced with the same thing. So it's about talking about a particular topic, which might be, my gosh, I had this patient that I did this thing or I didn't do this thing or whatever. You kind of explore. all of the areas around it. uh Basically you're trying to get them to think of ways of changing their narrative if necessary. And it can be, it's shown to reduce staff sickness, it's shown to reduce burnout, it has such a huge, huge waft of benefits, but we absolutely do not harness it enough. And in the NHS you are entitled to receive 45 minutes of restorative clinical supervision every eight weeks. Now that just doesn't happen. I have to say most times people say, oh, what's RCS? What is it? Because, well, it sounds like it sounds like you're having your clinical judgment, valid questions, doesn't it? RCS, restorative clinical supervision. But it absolutely isn't. It's a, it's providing that safe space to, to discuss and reflect and hopefully feel better at the end of the session than you did to start with. But it's it can work wonders and I've seen it work wonders and it definitely has for me personally and I think as someone who does RCS for others it's really important to have your own restorative clinical supervision because being that emotional kind of carrier for other people like we were talking about in our very first episode that that weighs heavily on people. Yeah, and it drives, it can drive careers to end very prematurely. And so I see this as that, but I can also see what you're saying as far as this is checking your ego at the door. This is, you know what I mean? It goes back to not having all the answers, even if you've been practicing and doing things a certain way for a certain period of time and it's worked up until that point, or maybe certain parts of it are not working and to, like you said, you're gonna feel questioned, but that's not the whole. as long as that's not the heart of it, as long as it's not punitive, then it is absolutely beneficial. I would love to have had that, you know what mean? Going through it as opposed to hitting your knee on the furniture in the dark, maybe someone shines a little flashlight for a minute and goes, hey, see what you're doing, you moron, without saying that. But you know what I mean? That's how I talk to myself. Yeah. I have a flashlight here in my pocket, why don't I just use that for a minute? There's a person who loves to solve problems, that's why I board game, that's why I love it. Show me a thing and I will come up with 10 different ways, hopefully, of making it better or improving it or solving the problem. But that isn't realistic. You can't tell the people that you're helping facilitate RCS. You can't say, it's so obvious why you're obviously, can't you see? This is why it's happening like that. There's a fantastic video that they show you in the, when you're learning to be an RCS facilitator. And it's a really silly video. This person has a huge nail driven into their forehead. I know you've seen it. It's probably on YouTube somewhere. If you type in, I'll try and type it. It'd be something like RCS, uh nail forehead, something like that. And basically this woman is going, oh, this is just pain and I can't seem to, nothing I do gets rid of it. And the guy is like, but have you thought of that? She's like, you're not listening to me. Every time I try and pull on a jumper, I just feel like this is heavy weight. And he's like, yeah, I think I can see the problem. And it's such a perfect example of. stop trying to fix people's problems, listen to their experience, and then you come to bottom of it. you know, if she could shine a mirror, she can see there's a nail in her head, but that's not our issue. She needs to talk about what's going on for her, and he's just trying to solve the problem, which I think is a real, it's definitely a thing that happens in relationships. think I like to phrase it as people generally want one of three Hs. If they're having a problem, they either want to be heard, they either want to be helped. or they want to be hugged. Now, if you just want to come out with an issue, maybe you've got this thing, you just want to say it, you just want to get it out, you just want to be heard, but your other half is constantly, oh, have you tried doing this thing? just think, stop trying to fix my problem. I just want to be heard. Whereas, maybe sometimes you just want to be helped and you do actually want someone to fix it, or sometimes you just need a big hug. So I think that is something I do try with the students I work with. the learners I have, if they come to me with a problem, we'll talk about it for a minute. And I might say, okay, generally people want one of the three H's, heard, helped or hugged, which is it? Because there's nothing more frustrating when you want to talk about something and someone just keeps offering you solution after solution and you just want to get the thing out. So yeah, heard, helped or hugged, that's a thing. I am just drinking this up and I really hope that video is on YouTube because I am gonna watch it and I have a hunch that my future students are going to see it as well. uh So with that, and there was one thought that percolated into this little brain ah that I definitely want to point out here and I think that part of that is you're talking about with the spirit in what this RCS has done, right? Again, we're talking about not a punitive type of spirit but kind of a restorative or a and assisting a coming alongside wherever the case may be. But I think the difference in that is how it's approached and how it's done, right? Like when you have confrontation with anyone, um you know, is it done in a spirit of anger, frustration, I want to hurt you, or is it done with a heart of, you know, I won't use the words because I'm going to ask you a question that will provide the answer to this, which is Becky, and you know where I'm going with this, but I saved this last before going into our traditional closing questions. And that is, Becky, I loved your response to this. What inspires you? Well, I think what inspires me and I try and remember it all the time and that is difficult sometimes is that we do all have within us, every single one of us is that gift to spread joy and happiness. Now that might be a kind word. So maybe for your student just saying, you did really good that day. They maybe didn't do anything particularly special, but just a kind word that one day, some feedback for someone learning a new skill or just sometimes just being approachable so that someone feels comfortable enough to let their guard down with you, you know, and tell you that they're struggling, which RCS does help, but sometimes that's a bit too formal. Sometimes you just want just the opportunity to just go, ah, and say the stuff, you know. I think that we all have this ability, but I think the things that stop some people usually is fear, either fear of ridicule, that they don't know something or fear of letting go the power. If you use your knowledge as currency, we've all had those you know, supervisors or whatever that choose not to tell you a thing, you know, they want you to earn it. great, that's really great for boosting up their ego, but it's not great for learning. if you ever finding yourself wanting to withhold the knowledge, that's the time when you need to check yourself, think, am I doing this for the right, for the right reasons here? I think, yeah, knowing something that someone doesn't, doesn't have to become power and currency, but. Yes. can and it can really easily do that because it makes us feel good when we don't when we people are coming to us to ask the question and we know we've got the answer that feels quite that is powerful that feels really good but it can can morph into something that's quite tricky I think the kid, the proverbial kid in the classroom who's raising their hand because they got the answer and not only because they have the answer because they want everybody else to know they have the answer. Yeah. have been that Hermione Granger person but only looking back you realise actually that's great well done you've done the thing but how many other people suffered from that and didn't want to volunteer or were able to kind of take that step back because someone else is always jumping in front. Mmm, so good, so good. All right, Becky, I hate to close it. We are not gonna do a five-pointer, a five-parter, everybody. Sorry to disappoint. But let's close in our traditional manner, and that is the first of the two closing questions, and that is what were the three words that you chose to describe nursing school, and why did you pick So the feeling fraudulent, I think we've kind of really touched on this a lot. So I just felt a complete outlier. I wasn't good enough to be there. wasn't putting enough effort. Well, I felt good enough to be there, but I wasn't putting the effort in. And I was always raised, it doesn't matter what you achieve, but you've got to put, your full effort should be there. You know, I don't ever mind that you get a D or a C or whatever, but if you put 100 % effort in, and I always felt that I wasn't putting in as much effort as I could. And that's just a really horrible thing. But just let yourself learn in the way that you learn. Don't kind of judge yourself against someone else's. Don't measure your stuff by someone else's measurements, I think. um The proud one was coming from my family's reaction, I think, when I got into university. Like said, I was the first one to ever go on with higher education. So there was a pressure to succeed. But I think nursing is something to be proud of. And even though most of my patients don't even know about my existence most of the time, I like to think about how we as theatre staff advocate for our patients when they're their utterly most vulnerable under anesthetic. So they have literally no agency whatsoever. They're reliant on us for absolutely everything. And I think that's something to be proud of as nurses. And the collaborative bit. think the friends I made during my time at university really helped me through those, well, can be at times very difficult three years. I still see some of my cohort around the hospital when you're just walking in the corridors, because theatres can be quite, it's like a little microcosm of the world, but we do every now and again walk out in the corridors. It's hard to think that it's been nearly 20 years since we all sat in that lecture theatre in the first day together wondering what the future will hold. And that was in 2006 for me, so yeah, it's coming up 20 years now. Which is scary. just incredible. You're gonna have to tell me what that feels like because it's gonna be a bit before I reach that. Yeah, I'm gonna be a little bit longer than you, but not much. uh No, Becky. uh the last question before I throw my platitudes out there because they just want to come out. You know, if you had one piece of advice to the listener who is listening to hopefully all three of your episodes, if there's one thing you want them to walk away with, what is it? Well, we've talked about the learning to learn already, so I won't say that one, but just be kind to yourself. Be kind to yourself. Realise that the words you say to yourself really do matter. If you've got that inner dialogue all the time, oh, I'm so stupid, what did do this for again? I thought I'd learn. Ditch it. It does you absolutely no good and it does nobody else any good either. You can't pour from an empty vessel, as my grandma probably would have said. So, you know, you've got to do the stuff that fills you up. It's not selfish to take time to recuperate. It's not being rude to realise that you're not superhuman. Just be kind to yourself. We're all learning every day and anyone, like we say, who tries to project that they're not, run away, don't trust them. They're not being truthful. Just be kind, be kind to yourself and that means that you can then be kind to others. If only we were as nice to ourselves as we are to everyone else. I think the world would be an easier place. And if you won't do it for yourself, do it for your patients. Yeah. want someone who hasn't been to the loo. They don't want someone who hasn't eaten. They don't want someone who hasn't taken their break because they're going to make worse decisions. It's really important to look after yourself. But it's easier said than done though, right? It's easier said than done. but you just, I normally I want you to close, but I'm like this just like popped into my brain. Like flip it, you guys flip it. This is what just happened to me. What if you're the patient, you know, like your husband was recently, like you've been in the past. We've all been a patient. If you haven't been, you will be at some point. But if you're the one in that bed, you're the one in that gown, do you want the person taking care of you to not care about themselves, to not take care of themselves? to constantly put themselves down. Fill in the blank. No you don't! No, you do not. That inner dialogue can cause such... I see it in some of my colleagues, a person, I'm not going to mention his name, but he, I know that his inner voice tells him he's rubbish, tells him he's not good enough. And I just wish he could see what everyone else can see, because he's such a sweet, thoughtful, giving person. But he'll never see that because he won't let himself see that. And this job's hard enough as it is without you being down on yourself too. and without yourself making it harder. Yeah! my gosh, I love it. Okay, no, we gotta put a pin in it there. Becky, I cannot thank you enough for like, I just on so many points, I am like, oh my gosh, you're preaching to the choir. This is it. You guys, I legit, like I don't, we have, we're about two contacts removed from each other. I had no clue other than what she sent me. Yeah, you know who this person is like I'm like, I'm a very trusting individual I'm like I'm gonna chat with this person and it's gonna be great or it's good. We're gonna make it great and uh in Becky like on so many levels I'm like that I'm talking to myself from across the pond and then on the flip side you are showing me things that I'm like I am already Inspired to change certain things that I do or the way I talk to myself, etc Etc because of things you have said so thank you. Thank you. Thank you Well, I feel absolutely privileged to have been on your podcast. Thank you so much. And it's lovely having made a new friend, isn't it? It is and so and we are gonna VR together with her and her husband. I tell you that right now. But ah if we're one last time for the benefit of the audience, what is your podcast? How can they hear you? are. So it's called Who's Turn Is It Anyway? It's on all of the uh regular podcast providers. It's a deep dive into board gaming and all sorts of things involved in board gaming. uh We make basically recommendations of our favourite stuff. We have a regular uh first player rotating format, so maybe I'll do three episodes and then someone else will do three episodes. So you get a real variety of the kind of games that are out there. But um yeah, it helps you practice all those life skills that you need and it's fun. It's so fun. I'm just getting to it myself and I'm like, oh, this is gonna be on the regular listen here. So thanks again, Becky. I hope you have a lovely rest of your night. And I'll enjoy my afternoon, I guess. You too, have a lovely day ahead of you. I've already had one. It's great. You're going to love it. By the time you get to what is it now? 10 to 8. It's a corker. You're going to love this one. Thank you, Eric.