162 - Katie Kunda Pt 1: A Jacqueline of All Trades

Join nurse, nurse educator, and Snohomish, Washington native Honored Guest Katie Kunda as she waxes eloquent about her unconventional nursing journey, why she decided to become a nurse, using her voice during COVID, her intro into education, her advice for those afraid of advocacy, how she ended up working in “the never,” how she reconciled doing something different than what she thought she wanted to do, how she protects herself from burnout, being a new grad in the ER, and more!

Contact us:
thanks@feedingouryoung.org to send a note of appreciation to any of our honored guests - let them know how they touched you - I'll make sure they read your praises!
info@feedingouryoung.org all other inquiries, including having host Eric Miller speak to your nursing students or nurses!
+1 (509) 666-5636 text/voicemail line

Follow us:
@feedingouryoungllc Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube

Many thanks:
Jon Holland (Jomarkho - found on SoundCloud, Spotify, and the like) Music - intro/outro/sting composition
10com Web Development Logo and website design
Jeff Burton (88 Creative) Planting and watering the seeds to start this podcast

Transcript

0:00

Hello and welcome to this episode of the Feeding Our Young® podcast. I am so excited for today. First of all, it is a Monday morning and it is just a few minutes after 8 a.m. For many people that brings dread, it brings sorrow, it brings, uh I don't know, butt clenching anxiety. Who knows? Because it's Monday. But this Monday's awesome. Why is this Monday awesome? This Monday's awesome because I have an incredible human being in studio and I've already got a glimpse of some of the things that she wants to talk about. including one particular topic she's super passionate about that may or may not take up a second episode. Who knows? We'll find out. That's a lot of expectations to drop on her here in the first 40 seconds of the episode, but I know that she can handle it. So without further ado, quit flapping my gums, the one, the only Katie Kunda. Katie, how are you this fine morning? I am good, how are you? You know, I gotta tell ya, I've been a lifelong Seahawks fan. up in the Seattle area, right? So I'm doing pretty good. This is being recorded everyone. In between the divisional round and the NFC Championship round where we have to face the Rams. I'm secretly hoping that the Patriots make it so that way we can have another Seahawks Patriots face off and then we can just take their Ethan, you know? That would be really entertaining. people are calling it like it would be the ultimate quote unquote revenge tour, is to go through the 49ers, go through the Rams, and then beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl. I'm like, that's a tall order. All of those are big asks. So I don't know, one step at a time, just like Mike Macdonald says, but we're not here about the Seahawks, we're here about Katie and Katie's incredible life and all things nursing, and maybe a few things not nursing. But before we go down that road, Let's start with the traditional opening questions. So Katie, if you don't mind introducing yourself and where has home been for you and where is home for you? Well, I currently live in Spokane, which is my new home. I was born and raised in the greater Seattle area. So shout out to Snohomish, Washington. So born and raised in Snohomish and then um lived the last 10 years-ish um prior to last year in Renton, working and living in Renton. And then last year we made the great migration, as we call it, and a bunch of my family and me and we... we moved over to this side of the state and kind of east Idaho. m In covered wagons over mountain passes and avoiding dysentery, right? You know, with AC bottoming out and the moving trucks and moving grandma, yeah, it was, it felt like a great migration. Oh my gosh, I've had to do a one day trip. It was a 16 hour trip from Spokane to South Dakota and then another one day trip back with only a few days in between with my mom in tow. And so migration, I feel you my friend. I feel you 100%. That was not a highlight of my life, that's for sure. But we're not here to talk about me. We're here to talk about you. So Katie. I might have let the cat already out of the bag. Are you already a nurse? so, what degrees do you hold and where did you get them? Yes, I am an RN. I work in the ER, the ED, and have been there for the last four years, four and a half years. Coming up on five. yeah, so I graduated from Northwest University over in the Seattle area. It's in Kirkland. So it's a small little school up in Kirkland that's where I went to school. That is incredible. uh so having been through nursing school and now a nurse yourself and maybe more, what are the three words you chose to describe nursing school? Ooh, turbulent, uh unchartered territory, and foundational. Those are my three words. love it. Three and a half words. We'll just... Uncharted Territory has a hyphen in it, I'm sure, somewhere. um And then, your three favorite songs in life right now. So I'm gonna go against the grain a little bit. I didn't pick three songs, I picked three artists because my taste in music is so eclectic. uh I am showing the geek side of me. One of my favorite genres of music is soundtrack scores. So yes, so my three artists that I chose were Hans Zimmer, Austin Snell, and a lineum. So we got a little country, we got a little EDM, we got a little soundtrack. It's like I said, it's cool. I knew I liked you for a reason. I love my soundtracks. And I mean, you're talking like Pirates of the Caribbean, you're talking Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, of course, John Williams being a classic. Awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome. Okay, so then before we dive into you and your nursing journey, which I understand my preview says is a little atypical, would that be correct? Yes, I love it before we do that. ah What do you want to share with us about your wonderful, loving family that you just talked about making this great migration with? Um, well, I have two lovely parents. I am the middle child. I have an older sister and a younger brother. My older sister and her family, she's married and she's got two boys, so my two nephews. ah They, my sister and her family and my parents live over in Idaho. And we moved my last living grandparent over with us to my mom's mom. And then my brother stayed over in Seattle, so he is over there. So that's my little family. Awesome. And then you may or may not have someone in your own home who you love dearly. Tell us about that individual. My fur baby, uh Rudy, and I'm to say his name, he's going to come running out here. ah Rudy is my, he's my crack head is what I call him. He is a golden retriever, but he didn't get that memo. So he's really a Belgian melanois in a golden retriever body. Very mouthy, very high drive, very high energy. We had to do some professional training to get it all under control, but he's a rescue. So love him dearly. gosh. That is incredible. Um, well that's amazing and who knows, maybe we'll have a little presence of Rudy here before all is said and done. Not wanting to hog the spotlight from you at the moment. which is unusual. Alright, well then Let's start with this nursing journey that you've already teased. Why is your nursing journey so atypical? What do want to share about this wonderful thing? many reasons. First off, was one to wait for school. kind of, I don't know, I took my time with the prereqs. I lived it up in my twenties and had a good time and then decided kind of in my later twenties that I needed to buckle down and get moving. And then when I did decide to get moving and get into nursing school and start that, uh then COVID hit. So I went to school through COVID. And so again, very different, very, I said unchartered territory. That's definitely a piece of that. Cause that was uh new and undiscovered territory. Yeah. We winged it is the best way to describe nursing school through COVID. yeah, I went to nursing school through COVID and started my career right after COVID. ah And again, a lot of unconventional opportunities coming out of nursing school. um COVID was pretty lucrative. I could talk for hours on all of that. But uh yeah, so I kind of took advantage of that, did some vaccine stuff. uh Ran a vaccine team was one of the jobs that I did kind of in the public health realm right out of school. But yeah, just kind of unconventional all around. um Yeah, again, I could go for hours on that, but. And as I understand this unconventionality of you, I think one way you referred it to me when I first was talking with you was that you kind of considered yourself a jack of all trades, ah know, learning all sorts of different things. let's, let's, I love that you kind of give a nice little brief synopsis of your career. Let's take each era for what it is. Which brings me to another question just about you. If you could have a meal with someone dead or alive, who would that be and why? I think I said Taylor Swift. And it's not for your typical reasons. Well, I do love Taylor Swift, so there's that. But she also has had a pretty unconventional journey, if you will, through her career with her music. um And just the, I don't know. I don't know how you'd describe it. Just she went through a lot. Um, a lot of ups and downs, lot of relationships, a lot of bullying, lot of, talk about eating our young in the nursing world. And I feel like she kind of got a lot of that in the music world of eating your young. And so, I don't know, I would love to pick her brain, um, about her, her journey and how she managed through that. So yeah. Awesome. And my apologies to listeners, my OCD listeners out there who are like, no, this is not the order you go in. You're doubling back and doing an opening question. What are you doing? Because my own brain said that too. But I just I said era and I had to say that. in that, you're in your nursing era. So let's let's start with the pre-nursing era ah because you you talk about living it up in your 20s. I think I know what maybe some of that means. ah So enlighten us. What kind of things have you done prior to nursing and or did you know in between? school and deciding you wanted to become a nurse. Well, that's an interesting question because I decided I wanted to become a nurse in high school. um Yes. um Well, I love science and I love situations. I love leadership. I I um don't know, science, the human body and that sort of thing. And so it was kind of the culmination of all of those things. We had a lot of friends. family friends who were nurses. And so a project that I had in my high school science classes, we had to do a job shadow and then do a report on that job shadow. And with all of our family friends who were nurses, it just made sense to job shadow a nurse. And I loved it. So I ended up actually doing multiple job shadows in different specialties. And then I used my project to compare and contrast because I don't know, I just, got the overachiever itch at that time. HAHAHAHA do it that way. And so I did NICU, L&D, and ER. Loved Mother Baby, hated ER. In fact, I said I would never, ever do ER ever, no matter what. And look how that turned out for me. So that was net, okay. My nursing instructors in school had a saying, you never say never and you never say always. Nursing does not use absolutes. So that's what I take is you never say never and you never say always. I quickly discovered that a lot of counselors in school don't, I mean, there's so many ways to get there and so many different kind of licensures out there. And there wasn't, at least for me at that time, there wasn't a lot of information. And so I knew I wanted to go into nursing. I just didn't know how I wanted to get there and what kind of licensure I wanted to pursue, whether that was an ADN, LPN, BSN. I mean, there's just kind of, there's so much out there. And so I took my time and did pre-reqs at the community college and kind of dropped my feet, if you will. And yeah, I kind of lived it up. I did some traveling. uh And Eric, I know you and I had previously talked about I did dabble in some modeling or in the fashion world in Seattle for a time um and then worked as a nanny household manager. So that was kind of I did a bunch of different things, did a brief little stint in real estate doing like office management office work. So yeah, I kind of. dipped my toes all over in different things. literally a jack, or a Jacqueline of all trades, I suppose. I don't know. That's, uh that's incredible. And I imagine that many of those experiences have kind of helped informed your nursing career. Yes. Yes, and again, something that we had talked about is um when we found out we had a mutual friend and that friend was in the fashion world and that's kind how we knew that mutual friend. uh You had asked me about that and I had told you that, you know, there was a time where right after I got into nursing school, because I had dabbled in modeling and fashion and had a friend that was on the business side of things. And so he actually bought the trademark for Seattle Fashion Week. and uh decided that he wanted to go through and do the nonprofit route, but he needed somebody to start a nonprofit to do that. And that person ended up being me. So I spent literally my entire nursing foundations 101 class writing a 30, 40 page uh policies and procedures manual. And yeah, learning all the. I loved it though. know, people are like, oh man, that sounds so boring or dry. It's not. I'm a technical person, so it was my bread and butter. I love it. I absolutely love it. And you know, we're going to name drop here because this story is actually kind of funny. just it's one of those things where I met Katie through Gonsega where we are both employed and just recently and I'm like, just recently met, no just recently employed. Well, maybe a little bit of both. I don't know. But the point is I meet Katie and okay, great. So, you know, and she's like, yeah, you've got a podcast. What in the world? Let's go. I want to talk. Let's go. And so, you know, that's always dangerous when you get two talkers in one confined space. But as part of that, then typically, you know, I'll look them up and, okay, well, there's Katie on Facebook and I'll, you know, we'll friend request. And then the whole mutual friend thing is always like, it just, you know, the whole six degrees of separation and all the things. And I see that she knows this person named Sara Warnock. We'll name drop here. Sara, shout out Sara. And so. To give you both sides of this coin, Katie, again, how do you know Sara? Sara does hair and makeup and so she had done hair and makeup for some uh photo shoots and some runway shows that I was a part of. And so I'm like, you know, these are two, you know, having known Katie for all of an hour or two, I was like, you know, these are two lovely people who have met in some form of life and it totally makes sense given what Sara does. so I wrote Katie and I'm like, my gosh, you know Sara. Sara, I knew all the way back in middle school and in the Seattle area, we both went to Sequoia Junior High. She was a class or two above me. And, but what I will always remember about Sara. is that there are pictures out there of me that are maybe some would consider unseemly. ah And I was an awkward, gangly nerd. No, no, no, no hair and makeup that time. uh But my gosh, no, she was like one of the few people who were kind to me in seventh grade. And I almost want to get choked up talking about it because she treated me like a human being, even though Like from the outside looking in, she had it all together. You know, she was part of the, it appeared to be part of the popular crowd, all the things. But she was always very kind to me, accepting, even though I had these big old glasses, a mullet that was well past ah anything that would look decent, braces, all the things. Like, and she just saw that I was a human being. And so huge shout out to Sara and turning the attention back to Katie. um I just love though, I love how life does that. ah and brings us together in that way. You know, you talk about, you we kind of get through those 20s, you're living your life, you're taking your pre-reqs, you get into nursing school. And then you talk about, one of the bullet points you wanted to talk about was using your voice during COVID. And I'm really intrigued by that statement because you did not elaborate on the notes. Therefore, I, just like the rest of you, dear listeners, get to find out what that means. So talk to us about going through nursing school and COVID and how'd you use your voice and what happened? Yeah, that's a good question. So COVID hit about halfway through nursing school and nobody quite knew what to do. I mean, they were pulling us all out of the hospitals. They were not allowing us to go in and do clinicals. m We had to resort to online virtual classes um and it was just a lot of unknown and a lot of trying to pivot. Part of that is how do we push through nursing school? How do we continue? And I'm kind of speaking almost from an educator's standpoint of like, how do we get the students back into clinical? How do we get them back in the classroom? How do we try to keep things moving and in a way that's going to fulfill the requirements and get them to graduation and do all the things. And so because of that, there were a lot of upper level decisions that were made. And I will say this, it is a smaller private school. It is also a Christian university. And they definitely uh operate um with traditional values. And I'm trying to figure out how to say this, because I don't want to throw anyone under the bus, but it's just like a more traditional culture. Yeah. so a lot of decisions were being made higher up and there wasn't a lot of buy-in necessarily from the students and their standpoint. And again, granted, everything is very new. you know, they're learning on the go just like we're learning on the go. And so there were uh a lot of decisions that were made without, like I said, without a lot of buy-in from students um and a lot of executive decision-making on how things are going to go. And some of those decisions and some of the way certain things, and I'm kind of speaking vaguely on purpose here, some of the some of the way things kind of went about, rustled some feathers a little bit and stepped on some toes. And so I being pandemic this happened even on the west side of the state as well? I can't believe this. And I mean, and to just a caveat, forgive me for interrupting, but like, you you're talking about, you're trying to do this tactfully, of course, because we're not here to bash any institution, bash any organization. being an educator, I understand the other side. So there's that too. Yeah, and like you said, we're all in that time. was the joke in the hospital was like, well, what new rules are today? You know what mean? How are we going to get by today? It wasn't, you know, we're going to forecast for the quarter. We're going to forecast for the year. It was, all right, here's the new rules for today. Yes, and then we'll worry about tomorrow, tomorrow. So anyway, sorry. And I appreciate your tactfulness in that, but just so everybody knows, obviously, every and everybody who's listening to this, who was either in nursing school or a nurse or in healthcare, knows exactly what you're talking about. So continue. Yes, yes. And so with that, and me being one of the older students to a university that has a very similar demographic to Gonzaga, a very typically young demographic, um fresh out of high school, this is that, you they're going to university and going to college and um me having had quite a bit of life and life experience leading up to nursing school. um I kind of, there was me and there was a couple others that were pretty, I think is the word that was used. And so um there was a lot of me and us, couple of the other um older students that voiced or spoke for, cohort. um So much so, in fact, that after graduation, um my old dean, um Erin Joy, Yorga, shout out Erin Joy. um Yes, she uh actually reached out to me. She emailed me and she had said, you know, I know that you were very outspoken and had a lot to say. And she went on to say that she really appreciated that it never came from a place of just wanting to complain and rip things down. It was more of, hey, this isn't sitting well with us, or hey, this is happening, and here are our concerns, and here's some possible solutions, and how do we fix it? And so she reached out to me and asked to meet with me after graduation, and I said yes. And so we got to sit down for a couple hours and just talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly of nursing school and, you know, what went well, what didn't go well, and how can, how can we, if we encounter something like this, forbid again, how can we, how can we do things? And, she knew that I was about to venture off into a cross-cultural mission and she had said, my gosh, would you come back and be willing to. talk on that and I said yes and we've kept in touch ever since and she's a dear mentor to me. I love her dearly and that was my intro into education. So here I am actually now as an official educator. My gosh. I just love, like, and at the risk of hammering a couple, you know, things that nursing students, you know, when you're in nursing school and you hear things and you're like, you know, one of these words has a positive connotation and sometimes I feel like the other one has a negative one, but here it is nursing school. And yet there is still a level of advocacy, not just for yourself, but you're saying you and a few others using your voices on behalf of the whole class. And then, I mean, there's an example of SBAR right there. You're like, we're not coming at it from a standpoint of let's burn the place down or how dare you and kind of what we see a lot in modern society right now is just, this outrages me and maybe rightfully so. But when we come at it from a standpoint of, hey, let's try and fix this as opposed to, I can't believe this is the way it's going. This is stupid, period, and end of discussion. So Do you have advice for students who maybe are listening to you and going, my gosh, like I am terrified to even speak up for myself, let alone other people like, you know, there are going to be times where we just have to advocate for ourselves and for each other's. for those that are maybe a little more timid to do so, what would be your advice in this moment? um I would say it's all about taking the big feelings, because I think that it's very natural to feel a certain type of way about things. And I think it's a life skill to then be able to take those big feelings and to be able to put that into productive words. And I think part of that comes with a little bit of life experience and just getting older and you kind of just learn how to do that. but I would just say that's the key is like, you can feel any sort of way, but then how do you make that productive? Like you can be pissed off and mad and say, well, that's not fair. And okay, well, what's gonna make it fair? how do you voice? what you feel in a way that is going to be um received and do so in a productive way, I guess. That would be, I don't know that's, does that count as advice, Eric? Okay. I'm gonna piggyback right off of it in the flip version of that. Let's flip it on its head and say those feelings, let's say they're positive. Let's say you're excited about something and you are just, you are an advocate for X, Y, or Z, or you're passionate about X, Y, or Z. And yet, anyone know those people in life that are obnoxiously like that way? And I'm raising my hand here not as one who's known, but I've been guilty of being that person. Like, just because I'm passionate about something doesn't mean that someone else is gonna be. And so you kinda have to, I mean, I don't wanna distill it into just, yes! you get the buy-in from the other party? Yeah. Yeah. you are passionate about it, well, you're passionate about it either way, whether it's a positive moving thing or we're really worried about this development, you know what I mean? In either of those, that's it, you're trying to get buy-in. was, oh, I love that summary, love that summary. So, Katie, then, you you're going through nursing school, you're doing this advocacy, and, you know, just give us a glimpse, you know, this atypical nursing career, which you've already given us a little glimpse into. How did you end up Working in the never. Yes. ah Yes, because when I went into nursing school, I said, I will do, I want to do mother, baby, but I will do anything else except for ER. Like I will never do the emergency department ever. um I ended up through nursing school working as a nurse tech. If nursing students are looking for one piece of advice, this is what I literally beat them over the head with, get a nurse tech job. Like, That is the single best thing that you can do in nursing schools, get a nurse tech job. um And so I got a nurse tech job at Harborview of all places, which for those who don't know, who are not familiar with the Seattle area, Harborview is our level one trauma center. And it's the only level one trauma center in like a, well, back then it was a five state region. um But now I think that they've... hospitals shifted and changed a little bit, it's still, this is a really big region and they get a lot. And as a, as a nurse tech, would be the first to float to other floors. And so I floated a lot to one of our trauma inpatient floors. And I distinctly remember the moment that it clicked in my head. was floating to this unit and one of the nurses approached me and goes, you're a nurse tech, right? And I said, yeah. And she goes, well, what semester are you? And I tell her, I'm a senior here. She goes, OK, so you've covered the basics of wound care, right? I said, yeah, that's something we did last semester. She goes, OK, cool. You're going to come with me. And I said, OK, what am I getting myself into here? And she carries in a, I always joke, she carries in a fentanyl lollipop, because that's something that they use on the antichip form there. And for oral medications, it lasts longer. low release, but she carried in the wound care supplies and the fentanyl lollipop and she goes, you're going to do it. You're going to do all the wound care for this patient. And it was a patient with necrotizing fasciitis who had gone in for a debridement and basically had half of his thigh missing down to the bone. it was, I hate to sound crass and those who don't work in healthcare, I apologize ahead of time. This is totally a nursing thing, but it was like having a live cadaver. I don't know how else to explain it. You could see all the bones, all the tendons. was like being in the OR without the patient actually being in the OR. And everything from knee to groin. And so she had me do full wound care on this trauma patient or this necrotizing vasectitis patient. And I went home on a high. I was like, that is the coolest thing I have ever seen, I have ever done, and I want more of that. And that was... That was the beginning of the end for me for emergency medicine. Wow, I mean like literally in one moment, one experience that it sounds like, I mean, most people would wanna probably pee their pants being told they're going into the situation. don't like, was your anxiety level high? It sounds like you're pretty even keeled, but yeah, you're like, I'm gonna, okay, yeah. Heart beating out of my chest. ah And I mean, you know, we're all in the midst of the release of the second season of the show, The Pitt. And you're bringing me straight to episode two, you know? There is a new character who is a new nursing grad, which obviously piques my interest even more than I was already piqued in the show. But I'm like, okay, yeah. into that room in the second episode with the nursing student and they were taking off the cast, I literally said from the get-go and I was like they're gonna take off the cast and they're gonna find maggots and they took off the cast and they and she's like pale looking like she's about to yeah that was the way, spoiler alert everybody, if you haven't seen episode two, by the time this comes out, if you haven't seen episode two, that's on you, I'm sorry. But my wife who, no exactly, and my wife who, exactly, my wife who is non-medical, it's like, oh, uh-uh, they're not gonna, I know what's gonna be under there, and I'm like, yeah, 100%, like everybody already knows, so, oh my gosh. No, I love that, and I love that, so like. I guess then, because I get a lot of students that are like, my gosh, you know what I mean? Like, you know, my advice is always keep your yes list, your no list, and then your maybe list. You know what I mean? If you definitely know, like early on for me, ED, ICUs, no thank you. I cross that off very easily. And then never saying never, but pretty reasonably assured, this is not happening for me. uh That's not my desire. This is kind of where I'm leaning, da da. But that being said, like I get a lot of students that are always, you know what I mean? Like, well, I don't even. senior year, I don't even know what I'm doing, I don't know where I want to go. Great, that means you have more opportunities, right? Like there's more opportunities available to you than say the narrow minded me who's like, I want to do pizza oncology. That's what I want to do. And then maybe I'm setting myself up for, you know what I mean, like this disappointment and failure and things like that. But I digress. Katie, like, can you kind of open up the door into just how you felt, you know what mean? Like you're thinking maybe labor and delivery, you're thinking you kind of enjoyed that you said. And then This ED component comes later as a nurse tech. So how do you feel going prior to that and then. How do you make the adjustment internally? you're set, you've got the compass pointed in one direction, and all of a sudden you're now exposed to this brand new experience that goes, my gosh, no, I want more of that, I'm going this way. Like, is it just a natural, like, boom, I'm ready to go? Was there a period of reconciling this with what you thought you wanted to do? Like, take us through that feeling. Yes. I still wasn't totally convinced when I graduated. Like I knew I really loved that. I knew that that had kind of ignited a certain level of passion, but I wasn't totally convinced. I still kind of thought, well, maybe I like higher acuity, but I still kind of want to do peeds because like that nanny piece of me definitely was still in there. And I loved working with kids and I kind of wanted to bridge that together. So I still kind of was like, I don't know. I was definitely on the fence trying to come to grips with like, do I really, like I kind of still want peeds, but like, I don't know. And it was a friend of mine, shout out John, John Menlove, who is a friend of mine and he had had a daughter and I kind of, I filled in and babysat and nannied a little bit for them. Um, but he is a nurse, and now works in sales, but was a nurse and he's literally. I graduated. He took one look at me he goes, you need the ER. Like you need it. And I was like, but I don't know, like maybe peds ER was like, I'm like literally bartering back and forth like, but maybe I can still have the peds piece. Let's do like peds ER, but, um, they don't have, there is no peds trauma in Seattle. Um, they have. Harborview, which is our level one trauma center. And then they have Seattle Children's Hospital. And Seattle Children's is not necessarily equipped to take pediatric traumas. So the way that it works over there is the Peds will actually go to Harborview first, they're stabilized and then shipped out to Seattle Children's. And so with there not being any like Peds trauma sort of thing in that area, I was like, well then maybe Peds ICU? I don't know. And my friend John goes, no. No, you need ER. So I applied to Seattle Children's. I dug in my heels and applied to Seattle Children's and didn't make it. I actually applied twice and again, didn't make it twice. And John goes, just freaking do the ER. Like, is what you should do. This is totally you. I think you would kill it in the ER. And I finally just gave in. said, All right. And applied and ended up making it into a residency program. And that's when... the tumultuousness really begins, but yeah. Yeah, and I, so I want to pick your ER brain for a second and there's two key topics under this umbrella um that I want to, so because you've been doing ER for how long again? Uh, four years now. A little over four years. Yeah. It's been 38 minutes of you and I talking and somehow I needed to verify that fact. So the first question I'm going to ask is how do you, because it just lends itself to how are you, you know, you're four, four and a half years in this ER career. ER is notorious for burning nurses out, you know what mean, making them not only change, you know, specialties, but maybe just changing the profession altogether. Yes. you, how are you, do you have any safeguards in place? What are you doing to protect yourself from burnout? I tell everyone get a therapist. um Even if you think you're okay, you're okay until you're not okay anymore, as was the case with me. So I am a big proponent of therapy. um They have specially trained therapists out there. I found out in my therapy journey for first responders and equivalent would be ER nursing. um which is kind of a branch off-ish sort of. And so yeah, that's what I did. I got a therapist. So that's one of my self-care pieces there, which has helped tremendously. um And I would just say, Pay attention to the signs, because there will be signs. You will be highly emotional. um You can lose your patience and start realizing that the patience that you had before with patients and coworkers isn't the same as it is now. And so there's little bits and pieces that kind of speak to you and whisper to you. And pay attention to them. I will say that Something that I did is I didn't want to sacrifice working and experience just because I was burnt out. And so I found other ways and other things that I was passionate about to keep doing what I love to do, but not in the ER, not in the bedside, which I love the ER and I have my shifts that I work in the ER, but. I also now teach. That's something that I became passionate about. And so that's a way that I still do what I love to do and exercise that nursing brain um without going off the deep end in terms of burnout. I love all of that advice and I'll make it brief but we just my family and I have a couple of our kids my wife and myself my wife loves natural disaster movies and there's a one that just got released that is called Greenland 2 and I had never heard of Greenland 1 let alone Greenland 2 and it's not like it's highly rated and anything like that and I was like well I mean this sounds like something my wife would be interested in let's see if we want to go and but what you are just saying about the therapy piece It was just a moment in the movie that was like, again, this isn't something that's like top five movies of all time. It just was one of those nice popcorn fillers they try and, you know, there's a bit of heart in it, but still didn't move me, you know, and I'm a notorious crier in movies. But the long and the short of it is this. They're surviving in this bunker after this major natural disaster. And the idea is that this bunker may not hold, they're running out of supplies, blah, blah, blah. And the main character played by Gerard Butler is talking to a counselor of sorts. And the counselor, think, had said something along the lines of, well, because all these people are selected, right? The government sends these uh blurbs out to their cell phones. You've been selected. Take your family. Meet here. Hush, hush. They're not giving them details. And you would think, right, doctors, nurses. ah He was a structural engineer. So building, rebuilding, buildings, literally. But the counselor's like, and that's why they selected a lot of us counselors, because they knew that everybody would need the mental health help. And I just thought that was a really nice, unneeded, but definitely beneficial touch. Yeah, like just a great touch to the movie. Like, okay, let's go. You know what I mean? uh Anyway, there's one other topic. So obviously we haven't even gotten to what you're most passionate about. You're definitely a two-parter, it's obvious. uh But there is one topic that I still feel fits great under this umbrella and again, your experience in the ED, because you kind of mentioned it briefly. We like to focus on the positive, not the negative. But that being said, there's a reason why this podcast is titled Feeding Our Young®. What have you seen in this phenomenon of eating our young and how have you navigated that? I will say as a new grad it's very hard to go into nursing and I don't mean to belittle anyone's experience but it's even harder to not just go into nursing but to go into a high acuity nursing field things like ICU and ER. It is um high pressure, uh high performance expectations. low threshold for mistakes, um both in like patients and tolerance of your peers. And then also just because mistakes in all of nursing are life and death, but even more so in critical care settings. um And it's just, it's a dog eat dog world. The ER is like, I don't even have words. I wish there was a way I could describe the culture of the ER, um but it's... like eat or be eaten, like you sink or swim. um And then you also have, of course, the peers that don't believe that new grads should be in those critical care specialties. You've kind of got that traditional school of thought, which a lot of people, a lot of nurses subscribe to, of nurses, new grads should start in Med Search and then kind of work their way out from there. I don't necessarily agree for other reasons. But um I do see why, um just because of all the things that I had mentioned with that just kind of high performance expectation and just the, I don't know, expectations in your level of performance in emergency medicine. So m definitely had peers that thought that I shouldn't be there. um I had preceptors that wanted me to sink, not swim to prove a point. Yeah, so it was rough. um I'll also say that it's rough because within the ER, there's a lot of trying to prove yourself to, not just with the nurses, but with the other staff, with doctors or techs and things like that. And so it's, everybody kind of wants a piece of the action. I don't know. I don't know how to describe it other than it can be really tough to. to hold your own and to speak up and not kind of get squashed down in that setting. So I, again, started at an Oced, then went to a traditional ER, had quite the experience at that ER. And then actually because of the bullying, had a really rough experience where my patient passed away. And that was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. Um, and so I ended up moving and I moved out here. What would you say to those that nursing students, anyone who's listening to you going, man, I was really excited about doing ER nursing or these intense fields you're talking about, but now I'm not so sure based on what you're saying. If you are going to go into a critical care setting right at a nursing school, you kind of have to be sure. You can't really be wishy-washy on it because it's going to test you and it's going to demand a lot of you. And so you really have to be certain. If you're on the fence, I... uh I might suggest then going the MedSearch route and then kind of working your way into the ER or into the ICU. But yeah, with critical care specialties, that level of expectation and demand, you really have to be like sure of your decision that that's where you want to go, because it's the only way that you're gonna really survive it. Well, then very briefly then, would you say that there are some days that it, especially going into a field like that, it takes all of your passion for that field, for that subject, for that specialty to get you through to the next day on occasion? On the rough days, yes. It takes that passion. takes that, this is what I want to do to then get you through to the next day. Now, don't get me wrong. The good days are fantastic. And there are days where it just clicks for you. And we talk about this as educators all the time with our nursing students, where things that you're taught just kind of click into place and it all makes sense and you have that light bulb moment. And when you're a new grad, in a critical care field when those pieces start fitting together and that light bulb moment goes off and you're like, no, actually I know what to do in this situation. And I know what this patient needs. It's very fulfilling and those pieces clicking, it's not just gives you like this emotional boost, but then it also boosts your ability to advocate when you know. when you can kind of see where this patient is going or see what this patient needs, also boosts your ability to advocate, which when you do that, again, just feels all the greater, I don't know, all the better. So I would say it's twofold. The good days really push you through, but then on the bad days, you really need that passion to be there to then keep on trucking. I'm gonna, at the risk of, I don't know, I'm not a prototypical male in any way, shape, or form, but I'm gonna bring this back around to our previous little discussion about the Seahawks, and here's why. Because you just crystallized it in my mind for me. It's those moments where, as a fan, for me, you've got better teams and worse teams, right? The Rams are incredible. Other NFC teams, fantastic. The NFC overall was better, but there's other teams that are great, but not excellent. The Rams are one of those elite, excellent teams. The 49ers with everything they went through, same story, all in the same division. So as a fan, I'm sitting there, everybody's like, oh, football, I'm tuning out. No, stay with me. Because what I'm saying is, as a fan, you find yourself rooting for these underdogs. Like, I'd rather face this guy, the Packers instead of the Rams, instead of the 49ers, because they're just division games, you never know what's gonna happen. And you root for these, the lesser competition. And yet, then you go, well, all right, we ended up with the 49ers. I didn't want it, but all right, that's what we're gonna do. And then it makes, if the victory happens, it makes the victory, like you just said, that much sweeter. You're gonna have those brutal days. You're gonna be like, I wish I could go in today. Today I need a cake day. Today I need just, I don't want X, Y, or Z, whatever your specialty is. I don't want this horrible thing to happen. I just need a cake day today. And the day decides to present you with something different. And instead you get the rams of your day. You get the worst situation possible. You get the most, not the worst, but the most challenging situation possible. And when you overcome that in your work setting for your patient, with your peers, there is no greater feeling. And I feel like that's what you're saying too, Katie, right? Like you're just like, ah it makes the victory over that situation that much sweeter. So, we're already, man, I think we're close to an hour as it is here. We're gonna, you guys, do not miss the part two of the Katie Kunda experience, because Katie, what is that one passionate thing that you're gonna be talking about? I am gonna be talking about cross-cultural nursing and my time overseas in Africa. So that's gonna be next. miss this, this is going to be amazing! ah So let's flip it to the, let's go to the flip side and we'll see you guys there!