164 - Runar Camp Pt 1: The Little Moments Can Make a World of Difference

Join recent graduate and Spokane, Washington native Honored Guest Runar Camp as he chats about April Fools jokes, the impact of his family on his life, how a broken arm landed him in his nursing career, how the little moments can make a world of difference, what it was like being one of the first nursing classes at his chosen university, his favorite parts of nursing school, and more!

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Transcript

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Hello and welcome to this episode of the Feeding Our Young® podcast. You know what? It's not often that I'm able to sit with another gentleman in this field, as everyone already knows that, you know, being a dude in nursing is kind of a rare thing. Definitely part of the minority. I feel like, I felt like there's stretches where I feel like it gets a little better, the numbers get a little higher, but for the most part it still kind of typically hangs around 10%, give or take. so when I get a chance to sit down with another gentleman of the trade, the brotherhood within the sisterhood, then I love it. So without further ado, I want to introduce the one, the only Mr. Runar Camp. Runar, how are you this fine day? I'm fantastic. Can't complain woke up had a nice hearty breakfast and I'm just sipping on a cup of tea right now, so That's what I'm talking about. Couple of tea brothers coming at you here. I had mine approximately five hours ago, so you know, whatever, it works. So before we get going too far here, I just wanted to let you know, uh that looking ahead to the schedule, your episode is dropping on April 1st of this year, which last time I checked is still April Fools, right? oh According to my calendar. uh So here we are, a couple of fools talking nurse. I'm not bringing Runar down. ah It's just, you know, you gotta have fun on April Fools. Okay, we're not even gonna do the normal thing. Runar, can you tell us your number one April Fools joke, either played on you or you played on someone else at some point in your history? You know, that's a fantastic question. I feel like there's always the classic April Fool's jokes that are just like minor pranks that you pull on your friends at school, switching out like their lunches or something like that. I don't know, if I had to pick a favorite, oh, that's a real tough one. Maybe this will jog your mind here because my favorite of all time was when my wife was actually pregnant with our third child and we happened to find out on April Fools. So we're like, this, this writes itself. We're going to call everybody and tell them Jenna's pregnant with her third baby and they're going be like, ha ha ha. And so we did and everybody was like, ha ha, whatever. And it was great because then nobody thought she was pregnant. And it took a little while for them to figure out that we were actually telling the truth. That's awesome. That's the perfect cover story too, because you get, you know, you get over that little introductory phase when you're first having a baby, like, oh my gosh, do you have names? Oh my gosh, do you have this stuff? The whole thing gets skipped because everyone's like, was like, whatever, losers, you're so funny. Yep, yep, okay, love ya, have a good day, Mom, have a good day, Dad, whatever. uh Alright, alright, enough of the April Fool's talk. So, Runar, I might have let the cat out of the bag. Are you already a nurse? wait, that's right, you revealed it in the intro. So, where did you attend school? When did you get your degree? I attended school at Eastern Washington University. I was a part of their first graduating class back here in 2025. I graduated in May and received my BSN. And then I took my NCLEX. Well, I mean, we'll talk about the NCLEX later shortly after that. Had some strife with it and now became a nurse back in, what was it, back in August. Wow, I mean we're talking brand new and I love that perspective. Also, go Eagles, Eastern Washington Eagles there. um So then the other tradition, well where's home for you, Runar? Is this obviously, not obviously, obvious to me, you're living here in Spokane, uh give or take, but has this always been home for you? Where's home for you? Home for me is born and raised in Spokane, Washington. I was born here. I grew up here up on a South Hill. I went to Hamlin Elementary, then moved on to Chase Middle, Ferris High School, and then to Eastern Washington University. And I still plan to live in the Pacific Northwest long into the end of my days. ah I love it. And that's key, you guys, because he's starting life in so many arenas of life. And we'll touch on that too here in a minute. But, Runar, then the standard questions everybody is labored and tasked with answering. And that is one, what are the three words you chose to describe nursing school? The three words I chose were challenging, growth, and I'm gonna kind of split it and say either friends or colleagues. You can take it whichever way you want. I like it. And then what are three of your favorite songs in life right now? Three of my favorite songs in life right now is uh Yes, I'm a Mess by AJR. It's a fantastic song. ah I feel like this band in particular has spoke to my generation ah and the current events that are relating to how we're moving through life way too clearly in the media. And I absolutely love them. Another one is Northern Attitude by Noah Khan and it features Hosear. It's just... another, like I'm a very Pacific Northwestern, wearing Patagonia right now kind of guy. And so that speaks to my heart up here in the PNW. ah And then another one is Test Drive by John Powell, which is from How to Train Your Dragon, one of my absolute favorite movies. And yeah, that one is much more relating to my recent nursing career starting and just how I'm kind of flying by the seat of my pants and learning way too much every day. You And some of that is voluntary learning and then one of my honored guests called it forced learning. You kind of have some forced learning going on sometimes too, right? Well, I love that you mentioned flying by the seat of our pants because everybody, that's what we're doing. Runar is only the second honored guest with whom we have no script. Other than the standard general format, we have no script. So who knows what you're going to get today? Just a couple of fools foolishly talking. about a career that is definitely not foolish in any way shape or form and that is nursing. So, Runar, a couple other little standard questions here just to get to know you. What do you want to, because I guess I kind of tease this a little bit, you're going to be uh starting a new life here relatively soon-ish. What do want to tell us about family and or any significant others in your life? yeah, I'm one of six siblings. have a relatively large family. Absolutely love all of them. We're all very close in age because we're actually a blended family. So I have several step siblings. I have one adopted little sister. ah And I love them all very, very dearly. They've been a big part in my journey through medicine and my growth just as a human in life. And then in terms of a significant other, I have my wonderful fiance. Her name is Isabella and we'll be getting married this year in the next five months so in June looking forward to that we've been dating for well it'll be eight years that same June which is why we are high school sweethearts soon to be married so she's a little my life what can I say Oh my gosh. And she may make a brief appearance, everybody, because we're expecting her to come home amidst recording. You might hear it. You might not. Who knows? Maybe we'll just be like, hey, what's up? Anyway, uh wow. I mean, you can't check off any more boxes in the old stress survey, right? Like, what major life events have you had? no big deal. Just getting through nursing school, getting a new job, taking the NCLEX, gonna get married. You know, it's fine. Um, so then do you have any babies or should I say fur babies that you gotta take care of too? absolutely, I have two fur babies, no human children. ah Two cats, one of them is a tabby cat named Basil and the other one is a tuxedo, black and white cat named Quincy. They both have kind of interesting stories. Basil is your traditional like... We got him from the cat cafe. He was adopted. had all his shots, wonderful little kitten. And Quincy we found in the ACE Hardware parking lot in Cheney, Washington. And I just took him home because he was about, I don't know. I mean, they can't see on a podcast, but probably about like yay big, a little bit bigger than a hamburger, I would say, sized kitten. And my stepmother is a veterinarian. So we got all his shots done. We did all that. And then I just took him in and I've had him ever since. and now he is absolutely massive. Oh my gosh, I mean, and that speaks towards your heart. You know what I mean? Like you just, see this cute little kitty and like, you're coming home. don't know. Nobody's, nobody's taking care of you, my little friend. Oh, so how old is he now? uh He's six years old now. That was six years ago. You just found him in a- my gosh, that's amazing. I love that story. Well, again, Flying by the Seat of Our Pants had no idea that was coming out, but that definitely speaks towards Runar's story. He and I tend to go a little bit further back than some, and this was not my intent in getting him on the podcast, and he was shit performed, but uh humbling moment here. I don't like talking about me. I don't like all the things, but it does play a part in his story. So Runar, we'll just lead off with the obvious question. Why nursing? What got you into nursing school? What's a fantastic question. And it does, as Eric alluded to, uh involve him in a pretty, I would say, significant way. You could call him my right hand man. We'll get into that in a little bit. um I was always curious about STEM. I love the science and medical field as a whole. So I've always particularly favored those, especially in my schooling years. When I was probably like seven, I broke my arm for the first time. That was my left arm. and then three years later I was 10 I broke it again so would not recommend I've been in and out of the hospital primarily for fractures the third time the third time was the real kicker um I fractured my right arm and ended up spending nine days in the hospital where at Sacred Heart Children's Hospital here in Spokane Washington where I developed a condition called compartment syndrome. That's where the muscles inside of whatever extremity swell inwards rather than outwards because of the fascia and tissue surrounding it causing a barrier so that they push in and they don't have room to swell out. It causes a whole bunch of complications. The only solution is what's called a fasciotomy. And the nurse who was on staff, correct me if I'm wrong, that night who rushed me to the OR was in fact the one and only Eric Miller, which is why I say he's my right-hand man. because I'm pretty sure he's the only reason I still have a right hand. well, I'm going to lay that. I'll let the surgeons claim that fame there. But man, yeah, it was uh because again, you're always worried about, right, like compression of nerves. I mean, and it can get out of hand pretty darn quickly. No pun intended. uh But no, I just I and the only reason why I was like, Ruhner, like I told him before we started, I'm like, I don't want to, you you share as much or as little as you want. This is not why he's here. This is the Eric is amazing episode. We're just going to bring it back around to that all episodes long. No, but the point is, I tell my students, every time I get an opportunity to teach, I'm like, you guys, be the best version of yourself. I preach it all the time. Be the best version of yourself. And usually in the context of, you're not planning on sticking in this hospital, great. You're not gonna be in the Spokane area or even the Pacific, the wonderful Pacific Northwest when you're done, fantastic. But still be the best version of you. Because I promise you, I don't know how it works. but you're going to run into, if there's the one person you don't like or the one person you didn't treat well or the one person you just like discounted or dismissed, they're gonna come back in your life or if not a version of them, then most certainly they will. You'll find that that peer that you couldn't get along with is now your boss. You'll find that, you know, it's just amazing how all of that works. And yet here we are when Runar, when I, so I'm gonna fast forward a number of years, Runar, you know what I mean? And I'm OB. I'm doing postpartum and I'm doing my thing and I'm coming into work and that particularly we know we get students and I've said it before I've made no bones about it. I am I am one of the most pro student people hopefully that you would ever meet in your life because I have a podcast about the whole thing. I am so passionate about seeing students succeed and yet it still happens to the best of us where we show up to shift and it's like okay. Just not today, you know what I mean? ugh, you know what I mean? And all of us, all, ugh, I just, hopefully today is not my day. I gotta have a student follow me. You know, last night was horrible. The stuff going on in my family. I don't know, whatever the case may be, you wake up on the wrong side of the bed, but you just hope, man, not that day. And, uh Runar, I'm gonna be honest, man, that day that you showed up, that you guys showed up, was one of those days for me. And I just was like, ugh. I'm not excited. I don't remember what it was. There was definitely stuff going on with the family. That's usually the one thing that can bring me down. And there's stuff going on with the family. And I just was like having a rough day and it's like, ugh. And then I come in and I don't even. I don't to get choked up. don't like I come in and Runar's like, hey man, I'm with you today. was like, fantastic. You know what mean? Like, I'm not going to be like, hey dude, crap. You know what mean? I really was hoping I didn't get a student today. I'm just like, all right, let's go. Like, today's my day. Let's step up to the plate and I'm going to give my best to him that I can. And he's like, do you remember me? And I'm like, well, I mean, you look vaguely familiar and the name sounded, you know, Reuner is a pretty, right, unique name. And I was just like, dude, yeah. And I was like, it sounds familiar, but I'm like, I'm not placing it. And so then he reminded me of this story. And I was just like, I mean, I almost practically cried right there on the spot, man, because I'm just like, oh my gosh, like here you are now X number of years. I don't know how many years it was between that incident and then getting to tootle you. about 10 to 11 years, somewhere around that mark. Like a decade almost. Yeah. I made this impression on this young man who, you know what I mean, was going through a very trying time in his life. just being the nurse that I am, it wasn't like, and uh especially in a peds oncology ward, a peds specialty ward, right? Most people are focused on those cancer kids and you got leukemia and well, we get a whole host of other diagnoses and then there are these other patients that we would, Split and share with the other peds unit and so Runar ends up on our unit just out of you know what mean? Whatever I'm assuming it was because we had the space or whatever and I just I just love how When you meet someone you never know that you're ever going to see them again And then when you drop back into my life, I'm like Runar this is like I can't even tell you what it did for me So thank you. You are paying back to me. Apparently what I might have done for you years ago, man I can't thank you enough absolutely. And I mean, continuing on with that story, like my time in the hospital there, I wasn't on the peds general floor. Like you mentioned, I was on the peds oncology floor. So there were days and nights when I felt that my pain wasn't managed to the same or wasn't the same, but I had a whole slew of complications going on in that time that made it probably more difficult than your average kiddo on three East or the pediatric oncology floor. Um, but something that I, that really stuck with me and is a big part of why wanted to do nursing because as a kid, right after the experience, like, I want to go into orthopedic surgery. I want to make sure this never happens to someone else because it's a very preventable complication related to swelling uh post-operatively most of the time. And so that was like, that's my heart set right there. And I stuck with that plan for a couple of years. And then as I got older and learned more about school, probably around like sophomore year of high school, I realized what I wanted was what the the nurses had, which was that patient rapport, that patient care, that bedside experience that really made the entire time spent in the hospital so much more bearable, so much less traumatic on me uh as a child. And that was big in part to your efforts, big in part to all the other nurses that took care of me when I was there. And just the little things, someone would stop in and chat with me just to get to know me better or watch a movie with me for a little bit. when they had time, nursing is a very, very busy job and you're constantly stretched far too thin and even these little moments can make a world of a difference in that experience and that's what I wanted and so then I decided to pursue nursing as a result of that. So it was in part to you and in part to all the other wonderful nurses that took care of me during these multiple fractures that I had and all the crazy stuff that I went through. And you guys, that's what nursing is. It's, yeah, you gotta be safe. Yeah, you gotta be competent. Yeah, you gotta administer meds on time. Yeah, you gotta make sure people's pain are under control, all of that. But it's the little things. It's the stop and buy. It's the, you know what I mean? Like, hey, I can't tell you how many times, like, peers of mine, like, they get shouted out for, like, you know, oh, and this nurse, like, came, they helped deliver our baby, and then they stopped by to say hi. You know what I mean? Like a shift later or whatever, you know what I mean? To make sure everything was okay or make sure we're good. Like this is what nursing is about. It's about caring for other human beings and doing that to the best of our uh capabilities. So I thank you for shedding light on that there, Runar. And so you decide you want to be a nurse somewhere around sophomore year of high school. That's the piece that comes in for you. So where does Eastern come into play? How did you, you know, did you go straight out of school? Was there some time in between? How does that process go? I guess, like, university selection process, really. Like, you know, there's a lot of areas, schools and schools outside the area. What landed you at EWU's doorstep? Yeah, a big part of it was financially. I don't come from a very wealthy background, you could say. So a lot of what I was writing on was financial aid, it was scholarships, and I was, I don't want to toot my own horn, I was pretty good student. I had a solid 3.8, you know, like not perfect, but not terrible. And so I applied to all the big schools, WSU, UW and them and I got into WSU, I did not get into UW, but I got into Eastern and when comparing the price budgets of them, I knew I wanted to pursue STEM in nursing and at the time Eastern did not have a nursing program, but they were talking about making one and they were in the works of making one and I knew it was gonna be up and running hopefully by the time that I reached that point in my educational career where I could apply to it, go there, get a degree and so I was like, do all of that and with the financial aid and the scholarships I had it was going to be completely free. The state was going to help me pay for everything and I wouldn't have to pay any money toward this so I was like, yep let's do it let's go to Eastern. It's a short drive I don't have to worry about room and board because at the time COVID-19 was still hitting our nation pretty hard and they were waiving the first year like room and board fee that you had to do as a new student as a freshman and so I saved like I don't know 12 grand or something like that. of room and board fees and I was able to and I'm so happy I was able to do this but I graduated completely debt-free because of my scholarships and all of my grants that I got from the state of Washington. So very lucky there. guys, it's possible. Like you can do it. it's, you know, maybe you're not in this situation, you know, maybe you're right in that I have enough money that I don't qualify for grants, but I don't have enough money to actually, you know what I mean? We're not poo-pooing anybody that's got debt, you know, going into nursing school and all the things, but it is a matter of like, okay, let's look at it. How can we do it? You know what I mean? Minimize that burden after graduation, right? Like a hundred percent. That is so cool. So take us through nursing school. Let's talk about nursing school for a minute. everyone knows on this podcast, it's not my heart to poo-poo any institution, poo-poo any, whether that be an organization you work for or a university or school that you went to. But yet everybody has their pros and cons and all of that. So I'm not trying to gloss over the fact that, no, everyone in nursing is amazing. There's issues, there's hiccups. Did you take into consideration, like you just said, this is your part of one of the first classes of Eastern Washington University, like did you have any hesitations? Were there concerns there? And what did reality look like versus expectations? yeah, there were concerns and a lot of hiccups and a lot of bumps in the road. And even when I was first applying, I I applied to WSU again because their nursing program was still available for outside applicants. But I wanted to go with Eastern, one, for the financial reasons and two, to be a part of that like establishing class. I thought that would be really fun, really interesting, a whole new road to go down. And it absolutely was, there was ebbs and flows and it was chaotic at times. Sometimes we'd show up to class and they'd like, the way, you're starting clinicals tomorrow. We've told you nothing about where you're going and you're just gonna go for it. And you know, we did, because that's what we had to do. We had last picks often because we were the newest schools. It was really tough for us to get clinical placements, especially in pediatrics, especially in mom-baby, OB, NICU, all of the women and children's hospitals because WSU and other programs had that priority and they already had that Um. It's already established. Yeah. and Eastern was this new school that wasn't even accredited yet. And so we had to kind of, we had some amazing professors that fought for us to have those experiences and to make sure that we could be the best nurses we could be coming out of school. uh And I think it was great overall. mean, they did, I don't think it could have been nearly as a good of an experience if it wasn't for my amazing professors. They connected with us on the level that I think was much more than just a professor and like student they understood that we were going to be colleagues to them in just a few years. They treated us more as equals than as people to boss around or to give the next assignment to and I really respect them and appreciate them for that because it made that whole experience and the struggling times all the more bearable. I actually really enjoyed my nursing school experience, even though the lack of sleep absolutely killed me. And I mean that's something I think any nursing student uh can associate with, So, Runar, you can also, like, if you want, you can name drop some of those professors that really stood out to you. Is there anyone that you just wanna, like, you you're just grateful for or? I mean, all of them, yeah. Specifically Russ Swanson, he was one that took initiative in treating us like colleagues rather than... um like future colleagues rather than students. That was a big part of his class. He was our primary community health educator and psych educator. And so he took us through a lot of those more ah in depth and possibly intense context or topics like suicide and how that affects everybody. Depression, all of the different psychological disorders. uh And so he had a very professional rapport with us and also Maintained like they if you need to talk to me we can talk about this if you need to step out for a second because it's close to your heart step out for a second and He was just very upfront with his contact and That made it a lot better. I also loved my pediatrics uh educator both Michelle Bradley who kind of write the whole course. She's also a pediatric intensive care unit nurse at Sacred Heart Medical Center and I had clinical instructor named Jameson Edwards, also a pediatric intensive care unit at Sacred Heart Medical Center. And then Heather Lawson, was a primarily pediatric, if you can't tell, very peds focused, which we'll get to. Yeah, I'm realizing that, but like all of my peds people were fantastic. And then, um Dr. Sherry Wachtel, who came in a little bit later, was very influential in the intensive care units and just the way that she would explain content, take time to um go over more complex topics, especially in intensive care. mean, it's so diverse and so broad and to cram all of it into one semester is ludicrous to me. But the way that she was able to break it down and make it so understandable was very helpful. But I think... I don't know, they were just all fantastic people. Pam is the one who fought for us to have clinical placements. Donna was the one leading the charge. Dr. Bachand was the one leading the charge of the school. She's the nursing director. Yeah. Yeah, literally, literally everybody. know, obviously you don't want to risk leaving anybody out. And that's always the risk of asking a question like that, right? But I mean, that your heart for that staff and what they did for you guys is evident. And I think that's incredible. So, I mean, before we continue on your journey, like you're in nursing school and all the things, what else do you want to share about that? What were some of your favorite parts of nursing school and or did you face any challenges and how did you work through those? I mean, faced, I feel like, innumerable challenges. uh I... Some of my favorite parts were building relationships. As you mentioned in the very beginning of this podcast, there's not many guys in nursing. mean, I had a cohort of 40 students, which is relatively small and there were five of us. So a little like right around that 10 % ish mark or something like that. But we immediately kind of clung together a little bit and we developed something that we coined the brohort in the cohort, which I thought was really good. I did not come up with. I love it. stuck together, we're still in contact, I have lunch with them every so often. em One of them's over on the west side so we just text but you know we're all still connected trying to keep each other updated of what's going on and... Then as our first class, as we were all going through this new program together and going over these new experiences and trying to set the bar for the program, we really grew together as a class. Like I'm pretty sure I could name all of our classmates by name if I tried. We had a conjoined group chat with all, I think there was 38 of us in it, so maybe a couple left out, but like where we would send, hey, do you understand this assignment? Do you have a question about this? Like, can we talk about this? would just go to all of us and we would all try and help out or say this is what's going on that you have to be here tomorrow at this time because this is different and we were very supportive and uplifting of each other as colleagues and classmates and we were a very connected cohort and group and I just so it made that whole process a lot easier. Some challenges that I faced were uh Probably yes, like I mentioned before, like a sleep, wake, a circadian rhythm of any kind. I was working the entire time through nursing school. Most of the time, uh, either full time or close to that. was a barista for a little bit. And then I quickly switched into becoming a nurse tech at Sacred Heart so that I could start using those skills that I had been practicing in my clinicals and start applying my knowledge to just better myself. And it was probably the best decision. I made in nursing school was to do that even though I basically lived at the hospital. I spent two days of clinical there, two days, two 12 hours of clinical, two 12 hours of actual work and then all my other time was taken up by homework and nursing school and so I didn't do a whole lot but I learned a whole lot. Yeah, and I mean like, I guess it's just not trial by fire, but just immersing yourself in this new world, right? Mm-hmm. Very much so, yeah. I lived and breathed nursing for a solid two years, probably. And I still do, but now I just have like, you know, four-ish days off every week or whatever. Which is... I'm going to ask you about that because like most new grads and you know starting in the workforce and all the things, one of the things that keeps coming back is like I don't know what to do with myself. Like I got to get back into my hobbies and things like that. I mean, what are the things you enjoy outside of nursing school and what is that transition like? it's been so jarring. I have a lot of free time on my hands, uh which has been great. I've been able to spend more time with family, more time with my fiance. uh And I have been playing a lot of video games, not going to lie. That's filled a good amount of my time. ah But it has been fun picking up a lot of new, going back to old hobbies and then trying to find new ones to be a part of. Like me and my fiance have been experimenting in pottery classes, which has been really fun here in Spokane. I'm a big Dungeons and Dragons advocate, so I played a whole lot of that. I'm trying to get my friend group back into that. We had a campaign that lasted two years before I got into nursing school, like on weekly basis. so trying to rekindle some of that to have those like weekly meetups and hang out with all my buddies in person is something I've been trying to rekindle. um Other than that, it's like, you know, just trying to build a healthier lifestyle, I guess, find times to try. workout or go for a walk or eat better and just be a be a better human in that way. Less feel like I'm living and eating garbage. Which, mean, rumor has it that tends to happen during nursing school, is that correct? I think so, yeah. think I gained a lot of weight and then uh I'm trying to work that off. They say that like, you know, you go back to school You end up gaining weight and then like when I went back for my master's degree What I didn't know was the saying was like it's like, you know that that master's 10 or 15, you know And you're like, what do you mean? Like no, yeah, you're gain another tip I'm like I don't gain weight in my life. And what am I doing? I'm eating McDonald's every day I'm going to you know what I mean the coffee shop to study so that I'm having my fruity coffee drink every day and these are habits I did not have on the regular prior to going back for my degree and I was like, oh, this is what they mean Okay. All right. Fantastic exactly. Getting home after a clinical and you go to Taco Bell. Because it's convenient, it's easy, you get the food, you shove it in your gullet, you hopefully grab some sleep and you're going back and doing everything all over the next day, right? Exactly. Yeah, so let me, I've got, you know, I'm looking at the time and, you know, if it's all right with you, Runar has no idea I'm asking this and I didn't warn him as I typically warn people, it just didn't occur to me. But looking at the time, it looks like you very easily could be a little two-parter here, good sir. We're only about the 35 minute mark, but I feel like we got about that longer left to talk because there's a lot of part of your journey yet that we're going to talk about here. So if it's all right with you, is it all right if we turn you into a two-parter right here, right now? Yeah, absolutely. mean, what better time than April Fool's episode and we're just winging it. Why not? winging it! We're just winging it. Couple of fools. We got the foolish stuff out of the way. Now we're gonna talk more foolish stuff. It's gonna be amazing. you guys, let's catch you on the flip side and let's see what part B of the Runar winging it experience entails.