Don’t Do Business With Your Spouse Until You Watch This!

Thinking about going into business with your spouse? 🚨 Watch this BEFORE you do. It might just save your marriage.

In this raw and transparent episode, Skylar and Jessica Lewis open up about the real struggles and powerful breakthroughs of running a business together as husband and wife. From intense fights, ego clashes, and stress overload to deep healing, forgiveness, and spiritual growth — this is a must-watch for any entrepreneurial couple navigating love, leadership, and legacy.

They break down the biggest mistakes couples make in business, what finally helped them thrive, and the “777 Rule” — a game-changing strategy that’s helped restore connection, intimacy, and alignment in their marriage.

Whether you're a Christian entrepreneur, a couple running a company, or simply seeking God’s best for your relationship, this episode is packed with wisdom, truth, and grace.

Chapters: 
00:00 - Intro: Business + Marriage = Battle or Blessing?
00:37 - What's the #1 Key to Doing Business with Your Spouse?
01:35 - Pride, Ego, and the Power of Acceptance
02:43 - Masculine vs. Feminine Roles in Business
03:44 - Embracing Differences in Leadership Styles
05:07 - Why Your Spouse Shouldn’t Report to You
06:44 - The Power of Separate Roles in Marriage & Business
08:21 - When Business Stress Becomes Too Much
09:32 - Letting Go: Leaving the Business to Save the Marriage
11:15 - The Hidden Identity Crisis After Stepping Away
12:45 - Should Your Wife Really Be in the Business?
14:25 - Men: Step Up & Carry the Burden
16:00 - Shifting from Business to Marriage Deep Dive
16:59 - Why So Many Marriages Lack Real Connection
18:38 - The 777 Rule (and Why It’s Not Enough)
19:58 - Why Daily Emotional Check-Ins Matter
21:03 - How to Fill Your Spouse’s Emotional Cup
22:14 - Holding Space for Pain Instead of Fixing It
23:52 - How to Lead Like Christ in Marriage
24:59 - Seeing Trials as Opportunities for Holiness
26:00 - The Process of Forgiveness After Betrayal
27:58 - Why You Must Forgive Before You Feel Like It
29:02 - Forgiving Again and Again for the Same Thing
30:16 - Confession, Bitterness, and Finding Peace
31:01 - Sexual Brokenness, Trust, and Staying Together
32:14 - Unconditional Love and the Call to Holiness
32:56 - Final Thoughts & Invitation for More Conversations

🔗 Connect with Jessica Lewis | Rise Up Queens

📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/riseupqueens
📘 Facebook: https://facebook.com/riseupqueens
🌐 Website: https://riseupqueens.com

New Episodes Premiere every Tuesday Morning

Want to connect with Skylar? Shoot him a message on Instagram to @SkylarLewis and receive a free gift from Skylar personally and be sure to subscribe on YouTube @SkylarLewis for additional teachings.

If you're interested in learning more about Rise Up Kings, learn more on Instagram at @RiseUpKings

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:20:12
Unknown
I could distill so many of our fights down to my pride and ego. I used to think that you needed to be like me. A lot of women in business today are strong women that tend to operate in their masculine more than they operate in their feminine. I've had to check myself that you're you're not me, and I'm not you.

00:00:20:12 - 00:00:37:29
Unknown
But I'm not in control of it. Like you're you and I let you be. You. And I don't need to change you. And I'm me. And I have my roles that are distinct of you. And I'm not managing you. You kind of oversee Rise Up Queens, but in the most vague, general sense of the word, I am running it all by myself.

00:00:37:29 - 00:00:58:24
Unknown
And you're running your stuff all by yourself, and we come together in things. However, let's start off with a, question regarding being in business with your spouse. What would you say is one of the most important pieces to make this work? Give me the cushion. I was thinking of all the facial expressions I would maybe use with being in business.

00:00:58:24 - 00:01:17:07
Unknown
Like, you know, like like, oh, my gosh. Like, you know, there's, lots of, lots of feelings that came up just being in business with my spouse about brought all those emotions. I love you so much. So ask me the question again. Yeah. What, the most important thing. What? What's one of the most important parts?

00:01:17:10 - 00:01:35:04
Unknown
To to make it successful. Because there's a lot of spouses that are in business together. We've actually helped write the coaching clients that I've had. I've actually helped multiple coaching clients. No longer be in business together where the wife was able to go do what she wanted. The husband was able to do, run the business and scale it to the next level.

00:01:35:06 - 00:01:55:27
Unknown
We've had some different challenges, a lot of challenges working together, and we have had some huge wins. But what would you say needs to be true to make it successful? I could distill so many of our fights down to my pride and ego. I'll explain what that means. But I used to think that you needed to be like me.

00:01:56:00 - 00:02:16:06
Unknown
You needed to execute like me. You need to run the PNL like me. Even today, as we run events together, you are the type of person that likes to change things last minute. And I would have had it done three months ago. I do have it done months in and we talk and then morning of you have this great idea and you're like, let's do this.

00:02:16:08 - 00:02:43:26
Unknown
And immediately, even 15 years later, resistance in me comes back up and it helps me as a woman because as a wife, I want to remain fluid and flexible and playful and not be rigid. But my first nature is to be rigid. And I think a lot of women in business today are strong women that tend to operate in their masculine more than they operate in their feminine, and so they want it done.

00:02:43:27 - 00:03:08:17
Unknown
They're structured, they're on it, they're detailed. And being married to a visionary, if people are married to a visionary, visionaries are on it in detail but in different ways. And so I've had to check myself that you're you're not me and I'm not you. You bring such dramatic, amazing things to the table in our business. Actually, without you, we probably wouldn't have a business with.

00:03:08:18 - 00:03:26:07
Unknown
If it were just me running the show, we would have kept our original company superior very, very small so that I could manage the stress and the details of it. And so what's worked for us is creating a space where you get to be you, but in a way that doesn't that act. But I'm not in control of it.

00:03:26:14 - 00:03:44:22
Unknown
You're you and I let you be. You and I don't need to change you. And I'm me, and I have my roles that are distinct of you. And I'm not managing you. You're not reporting to me, right? We have people, but I will be the next one. So I would put number one as embrace and accept your spouse as they are.

00:03:44:24 - 00:04:01:11
Unknown
And that sounds so simple. And and it's just not it's a game changer. Now that was that was huge. I remember when, we were having some there was, there was a, lawsuit. This was a years ago, right, that I had mismanaged. Right. Because of a detail. We were laying in bed. I remember that, yeah, that was that was good.

00:04:01:14 - 00:04:21:03
Unknown
So we were dealing with some legal issues. I had forgot to file something, do some kind of paperwork. I don't recall the detail. But, you were pissed. We got in a huge fight about it, and there was a point where you. There was a point that was a it was game changing where you started realizing that my weaknesses.

00:04:21:03 - 00:04:43:04
Unknown
Right. And maybe missing some details were actually strengths that allowed me to scale businesses, because if I paid attention to every single small detail, I would get overwhelmed and wouldn't be able to focus on the growth of the business. And so when you embraced me, my, you realize, hey, my, my, superpower, my super. Yeah, my superpower was the visionary side.

00:04:43:04 - 00:04:58:13
Unknown
Not necessary. And again, I teach we teach guys, I rock. Details matter. Yeah. So I pay attention to a ton of details, but there's still going to be details that I'm going to miss because I'm moving fast. And so you embrace. And you you still. Right. We still struggle with that every now and then because you really you're still really detail oriented.

00:04:58:13 - 00:05:24:18
Unknown
But but but you shifted tremendously and I learned to embrace that side of you. Right? I wasn't I wasn't, upset because you were so rigid. I learned to love that you were a key part of keeping operations running. Well, yeah, I think it still happens slightly to this day, but I remember being in. We had a call center before we started a restoration company, and I would get so focused and, like, on it, on my computer doing what I'm doing.

00:05:24:18 - 00:05:43:06
Unknown
And Skyler would come in and want to chitchat, you know, like just glaring. What are you talking to me for? I'm in the middle of something. I don't know why that memory just came back. Because you were talking. Oh, we have lots of memories. So I'd say number two is making. Yeah. Definitely not having the spouse ideally report to the other spouse.

00:05:43:06 - 00:06:02:16
Unknown
Yes. I think that's just a bad idea overall. So if you're in business, if you are in business, do not have your spouse reporting to you. Find a way where you guys are equal inside of the organization and you're not holding your spouse accountable. If you're responsible for holding your spouse accountable, that is just a bad idea, right?

00:06:02:16 - 00:06:24:13
Unknown
Find somebody else to hold them accountable. Find a coach to hold them accountable. Some other solution besides your spouse holding you accountable. Sunny, even to this day in the companies that we have now, people are like, how is it working with Skyler? I'm like, I don't really work with Skyler. Skyler has his team and his people. I work alongside Skyler, and that exemplifies that.

00:06:24:16 - 00:06:44:12
Unknown
Neither one of it, like you're not overseeing, you kind of oversee Rise Up Queens, but in the most vague, general sense of the word, I am running it all by myself. And you're running your stuff all by yourself. And we come together in things. However, they're completely independent and separate from each other, and that works best. Yeah.

00:06:44:12 - 00:07:08:00
Unknown
I think where couples get stuck right, it could be right. The husband's out working on production or managing the you know the business side of production or maybe, maybe operations or growing the business and typically the, the, the wife will be involved in accounting and details and numbers and the money. And so that's where a lot of conflict typically happens when working with couples is, right.

00:07:08:00 - 00:07:28:21
Unknown
The wife wants to make sure things are being handled properly. She's kind of worried about money being wasted and inefficiencies and misses, and the husband's out trying to go grow and scale and manage things. And so I think, I think that number two is not not having someone report. But number three is having individual roles having separate roles.

00:07:28:28 - 00:07:52:24
Unknown
Right? I think was a game changer for us. Like you had your role and it wasn't convoluted with my role. So I think the clear the roles can be, which is true whether you're in business with your spouse or not. Everybody needs a clear role and clear accountability and clear objectives. I think the clearer those become, it allows, it allows for people to own their role versus thinking, hey, I thought you had that.

00:07:52:26 - 00:08:21:02
Unknown
No, no, no, I had that. It just creates it creates it can create resentment. Yeah. Yeah. So so do you recommend people being in business with their spouse. Let's talk about that. Just being real. I think it depends on the personality styles. And as you were just talking, what I was thinking about was stress right. The way you handle stress is completely different from the way that I handle stress.

00:08:21:02 - 00:08:44:05
Unknown
You can have extremely stressful things that most people would say are very stressful, and you can drop them, compartmentalize them. You don't carry them with you, you don't move on them. You don't do that. I tend to be the opposite and had to work very, very hard on managing my stress because there were things that I couldn't let go of and wanted to keep holding.

00:08:44:05 - 00:09:09:10
Unknown
And so at one point, it was strategic for us to put me in positions that weren't stressful. And at one point there wasn't one that wasn't stressful. So it was me exiting the company because I could bring my stress self into the business and home to our marriage. And if our marriage is the most important thing and money isn't the most important thing, then we needed to prioritize that it was our marriage over.

00:09:09:12 - 00:09:32:01
Unknown
Yeah, the reason Jessica exited the first one of our marriage that was our second, second organization, was we were growing in the growth was creating stress, right? I mean, there were some loose ends and which will happen in high growth organizations. And so we realized, like, we found out, hey, do you we I ask you the question, do you want to be doing all of this?

00:09:32:01 - 00:09:49:28
Unknown
Do you want to be on top of all the details, the stress that comes with it? Like if if I could have that handled, would you love to do anything else? You and you said, yeah, you said I would enjoy being with the kids. I would enjoy getting my nails done and my hair done and enjoying life and hanging out at the beach and, spending more time in ministry and right being.

00:09:49:28 - 00:10:11:15
Unknown
You had other passions. And so we made the decision for you to leave, that you chose to leave the business. You're smiling. Good. Yeah. It's great. And that was one of the hardest. Yeah. Year, two years for you. Right. Because your identity was so attached to the business. And for me, I'm like, oh, crap, it's all on me now, right?

00:10:11:15 - 00:10:29:13
Unknown
You're like, all right, you're handling the business. Here's the financials, here's the details, here's QuickBooks, here's everything. I'll work with you for a little bit and then I'm out there. So it was a huge growth opportunity for me, which now I run all of that right out at Rise of Kings and our other organizations. And you don't have to be as your minimally involved.

00:10:29:15 - 00:10:56:19
Unknown
But that was a big growth opportunity for me to step into, like, hey, now the success of the company is now fully on me, not on both of us. That was that was a that was a little bit scary initially because you did you did cover you covered the bases. And I think that power dynamic served the change in the power dynamics served our marriage in such a beautiful way because I relied on you then to really lead, I really had to rely on you.

00:10:56:19 - 00:11:15:22
Unknown
And that's part of where my identity crisis came from. Also, because up until that point, I didn't I wasn't conscious of the fact that I didn't trust you. Right? I was one foot in, one foot out when it came, when it came to the idea of what if you leave me, I'm going to I have this income and I have this business, and I have this thing.

00:11:15:22 - 00:11:35:07
Unknown
And even when I began to step out, I started my own coaching company and started to work with women and coached women from my past industry and then quickly began to realize, wait a second, this is me having a plan B! If Skyler ever leaves me. So out of fear, yes, I was great. I think at what I did and I didn't want to be doing that anyways.

00:11:35:07 - 00:11:57:24
Unknown
I actually did want to be home with the kids and available. So is the situation that you have in your business if your wife works with you, is it actually working right? And could someone be hired? Yes, I was great at what I did and it was easy to hire someone. Skyler has replaced himself in many companies and they might not be there.

00:11:57:24 - 00:12:27:26
Unknown
Not Skyler. However, we found very capable people that run the companies and are just as diligent. Yeah. My personal opinion on on that I think. Yeah. You mentioned if it's if it's working great and I've seen it not work so many times. Right. It can work right. If personalities jive really well if there's just great collaboration and, and people have their specific roles and I love, I love seeing a dude that's running the company, scaling, growing it.

00:12:27:26 - 00:12:45:10
Unknown
And he's not having, and he's, he's able to give freedom to his wife to do what she wants if she chooses to not want to be in the company. But I love it. There's a lot of mom, a lot of women that are only involved because they feel like they have to be involved. That's what I wanted to talk about in the business.

00:12:45:11 - 00:13:08:04
Unknown
I was like, hey, if I'm not involved, this thing's going down. Yes, yes, I can picture many women withinside my Rise Up Queens community who are in that role and they don't trust and they don't let their husbands lead to the full capacity because they believe they do it better. And they might do it better right now. And if there's never a transition, he never will, right?

00:13:08:06 - 00:13:27:26
Unknown
If she is constantly covering and taking over and not creating space for him to step up and lead and grow his deficiencies or grow the areas that he hasn't been strong at yet, maybe because he hasn't had to be, then nothing will ever change. Yeah. If I didn't need to be good at financials and the details. Right.

00:13:27:26 - 00:13:47:28
Unknown
Because you were always covering it, I would never have to grow in that arena. But once you were out I'm like all right I need to master these things. If I don't, the business is going under. And you surrounded yourself with people that mass that were just as great at it. So you put a support staff around you to put checks and balances in place to make sure you were catching everything, which was beautiful.

00:13:48:05 - 00:14:03:23
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. So I think it's something that should be checked in with. Right. Initially when companies entrepreneurs are getting started right, they may need to work together. They may need to pull each other in because they don't have the capital to hire people. But when your business gets to a place where it can hire somebody, right, ask your spouse, hey, do you really love this?

00:14:03:23 - 00:14:24:29
Unknown
And do you want to be involved? Or if I could find a way to hire somebody to replace you, would you would you want to be at home with the kids, or would you want to be doing anything else? Right. But the one thing that would get, the one thing that would get in the way of that is you've always had the belief that you wanted to take care of me and you.

00:14:25:01 - 00:14:59:02
Unknown
Yeah. That's interesting. You wanted to create space for me. You weren't like, hey, if I'm working, you need to be working. And I don't know that everyone has that mindset either. You know, I think there's a lot of guys that, men. It's time for you to step up and take care of your wife. So our responsibility is to have the stress is to carry the burden of business, end of life on our shoulders with God's support and so there's so many men that want their wives to work, just as much as they're working.

00:14:59:02 - 00:15:15:25
Unknown
Right. Hey, because I'm putting in eight hours, I expect you to put eight hours. And it's very unusual to me, and I get it. But, man, I want you as the queen to. To live a life that you desire to live. I want you to have it easy. I want you to have a great life. I don't want you to have to be stressed out.

00:15:16:02 - 00:15:28:06
Unknown
I don't want you to have to work eight hours or 10 hours or 12 hours a day if you don't want to. Like, I want to pull that burden from you. And there's a lot of men that. Yeah, that we've talked to some guys that are like, no, I'm working. She needs to work. It's like, whoa, dude.

00:15:28:06 - 00:15:51:02
Unknown
Well, like your responsibilities to help manage the family and to get creative and to come to God and to find out ways and allow God to create revelation on how you can provide for your family. Where there's a will, there's a way. So if you're clear, hey, I'm going to take care of my family on my income. You can find a way, or you can downsize your house and your car and allow your wife to be able to stay at home.

00:15:51:04 - 00:16:09:12
Unknown
Yeah, it's been a blessing. But at the same time, I used to get my identity from what I did. Yeah. And so I held myself to the standards that I need to be working as much as you did also. So there was growth on my side that I needed as well. No one had ever taken care of me in that way.

00:16:09:16 - 00:16:33:15
Unknown
Just almost just this. It felt like undeserved love or undeserved favor. Like, wait, you're serious about this? Like, we checked in many, many times on do you really mean it? Yeah. I'm more traditional in that respect. I believe men should be taking care of their wives and like carrying the burden. And if the wife wants to work fantastic.

00:16:33:18 - 00:16:59:29
Unknown
But I think that's Yeah. Again I'm more traditional in that, in that respect. Go ahead. Anything else? Okay. Let's go to the next question. That was a that's a fun topic as always. Next question is like let's let's dive a little bit more into marriage. So what would you say is the number one reason marriages lack connection even after maybe ten years.

00:16:59:29 - 00:17:26:19
Unknown
So being real like what's preventing connection and how can they still be disconnected or living in the same house but being more like roommates? Like, what causes that? It blows my mind. The number of couples or people in general that don't share what's going on on a day to day basis. That sounds very basic. And I was this person, right?

00:17:26:19 - 00:17:48:27
Unknown
I would just I was kind of disconnected from my emotions. I was numb to my past, and I had to learn how to say to you and the kids, hey, I have a headache today. Can you help me out a little bit more? Just saying. What's going on? Hey, I had a bad day. I talked to man all the time and their wives ask, hey, how was your day at work?

00:17:48:27 - 00:18:13:12
Unknown
And they say, good. And they're like, I don't want to get into it yet. That unavailability in emotions and who you are and what's going on creates a disconnect because your significant other doesn't know you. Are you sharing emotion? Are you even aware one of the things that are coming up inside of you and what you're dealing with, and then are you doing life with them or doing life alongside them?

00:18:13:15 - 00:18:37:29
Unknown
Do they know what's going on with you? And it's definitely a place to be vulnerably, if you're honest with what's going on. However, I believe most couples do not know each other intimately in that way, even in the everyday, and then don't even talk about intimately physically, right? Because if they don't know each other in the everyday, they're not getting into it deep and having a spiritual, emotional connection physically.

00:18:38:02 - 00:18:59:21
Unknown
Yeah. I love the the 777 concept. Right. So doing a date night every seven days and then doing a little getaway every seven weeks and doing a full vacation right, every seven months. So once a year at least a full, full family vacation or a getaway, even just with your spouse for a good five days to connect.

00:18:59:23 - 00:19:18:19
Unknown
And so we've done a great job with date nights. I mean, I don't want to contradict you on your own show, but I think you'd still miss it if they did. Seven, seven, seven. I think it would take another seven of daily connecting seven minutes each day, like each of them saying, hey, this is what went on with me in my day.

00:19:18:21 - 00:19:37:10
Unknown
This is where I was challenged. This is where I'm growing. This is what I learned. Let me let you into my life. Because if you wait for the end of the week for that, you're still not in deep relationship with that person. Yep. So seven minute. Yeah. Daily it's. Oh that's so good. Yeah. Typically we think about the date nights.

00:19:37:10 - 00:19:58:23
Unknown
Right. And then what are you doing on a daily basis. And we teach that I rock the four pillars right. Investing every single day into the marriage to show. I want to fill your cup up. So on that note, does your cup stay full from an investment that is made? Is this a trick question? This is a trick question, yes, but how long does it stay full?

00:19:58:23 - 00:20:26:28
Unknown
Is the question. Yeah. Is my cup different than your cup? Did God design me different than you? 100%? Yeah. I could spend a four day weekend with you. And there are times in our marriage where by Tuesday afternoon, I would legitimately miss you again. I need connection with you each day or I'm so used to having connection with you each day, I crave it.

00:20:27:05 - 00:20:46:24
Unknown
You're my favorite person. You're my best friend. Yeah, I desire connection with you every single day. Yeah. And so that's why I took us back to this. The seven, seven, seven isn't enough. And you might be different I don't know I think I think we've done it for so long connecting each day that you crave it also.

00:20:46:25 - 00:21:02:27
Unknown
Yeah I do enjoy it and I love it. I love our connection. I feel like the more we connect, the more I enjoy connecting with you. It's, it's the same thing. Is spending time in the word. Right? The more I spend time in the word and read the Bible and dig in, the more I start to crave it and really enjoy it.

00:21:03:00 - 00:21:21:22
Unknown
And so. Yeah. Yeah. For for the man listening to this podcast. Right. It requires a daily investment, right? Jessicas Cup will start draining with that after a day, 2 or 3 days. If I'm not intentional and investing and really filling her cup up by filling her emotional cup up like, what am I doing to connect with you emotionally?

00:21:21:22 - 00:21:39:18
Unknown
Am I sharing of myself? Am I being vulnerable? Is that a love note? Is it me just having a conversation, asking how your day was and really just connecting with you? So I think it's a really critical. And because you talk about, hey, not knowing what's going on, right, but it's a daily or every other day process and date nights are powerful to do.

00:21:39:18 - 00:22:07:23
Unknown
For recap, I, we really believe in dating your spouse on a weekly basis, and that's what we teach. That's what we live out. And yeah checking in on a regular on a daily basis. And what might get in the way of that though is when someone's struggling I don't know. I just think about our scenario and there are times when I struggle emotionally and you're there like you've learned how to hold it.

00:22:14:10 - 00:22:38:03
Unknown
Yeah. Sorry. That's close. Yeah. Last night we had a I just have physical pain rates. The last night I had an IV that I just didn't, it didn't go well and I didn't realize how much fear I live in. I'm reading this book right now on fear. But that fear creates more pain in my body.

00:22:38:03 - 00:23:02:16
Unknown
So then by the end of the night, like, my whole arm hurt and then my chest hurt, I'm like, I'm going to die. I'm not going to wake up tomorrow like I have a blood clot and the old Skyler would have fixed it, like would have solved the problem or, you know, tried to take it away or distract or disconnect and last night, last night, he just sat there with me and put his hand on my chest.

00:23:02:16 - 00:23:23:15
Unknown
And I don't know if he was praying, but just created space for me to be able to feel it so that, we could get through it. Like I just felt your presence. And if you were going a million miles an hour in the business and the business was a priority, and you weren't in tune with what was going on, I might become an obstacle to you.

00:23:23:17 - 00:23:52:25
Unknown
Where, like, you're moving, you're grooving, you're doing things, you're hitting goals, you're doing all this stuff, and you're willing to still stop and sit in it with me. Yeah. Oh you're a priority. You are a priority. You are everything. So I want to make sure I'm involved in the healing process alongside you. I believe God put me in the, in this role for a reason.

00:23:52:27 - 00:24:18:28
Unknown
So how is that not been a burden. Right. Because I believe some men would think that would be a burden. Like if there's business owner men that have wives with young children or teenage children, just children buried, right? That's stressful. Or if money is stressful, how do men not see their wives as a burden when they're trying to move and shake and make things happen and have all their own stressors within the business?

00:24:19:00 - 00:24:39:13
Unknown
Your question now? It's a great question. Well first off you've done a good job investing in the relationship a fantastic job. And for and my, my perspective is right as I lean more in the Christ on a regular basis, I want to be more the way I be. The way I show up is Christ like is the way I love you.

00:24:39:16 - 00:24:59:16
Unknown
All right. So that's you have been the refining fire, inside of inside of me. Right. Marriages are meant to make you holy. They're not meant to make you happy. Right? Some people think that marriages are designed to make you happy all the time. Now they're meant to make you holy. They're meant to refine you. And so I think through this process.

00:24:59:16 - 00:25:15:13
Unknown
Right. Different challenges. I use it as an opportunity. I don't go victim on it. I use it as an opportunity for growth. I think it's been the mindset that I've had around any challenges and any any challenges, any anything that could be considered a challenge is my it's I see them not as a challenge but as an opportunity.

00:25:15:19 - 00:25:39:07
Unknown
Like this is my chance to show you love. This is my chance to fill your cup. This is my chance to show you God's love, right? And how a father would love you so I take that. I take that role pretty serious. Thank you. Yeah. Great question. Thanks for being vulnerable I love you. You're awesome. That's what makes, it's one of the things that makes you special is your vulnerability.

00:25:39:09 - 00:26:00:01
Unknown
What going to the next question. Well hold on a second. This is that, it's just I hate to just move on that, that was a powerful moment right there. What what are you feeling right now I'm okay to move on. Are you okay to move on. Yeah okay. Okay. Good. And for the next question, this one's not tied to business.

00:26:00:03 - 00:26:22:12
Unknown
But from your experience. Right. You've done a lot of work around forgiveness and helping couples work through forgiveness. What would you say are the appropriate steps? So when somebody has been hurt in the relationship, there has been some type of trespass, some trust that is broken, right? Whether it's severe, or something smaller, how does one not stay stuck in resentment?

00:26:22:12 - 00:26:50:12
Unknown
What's the process to break free into a relationship that's built on forgiveness? I believe that the first steps would be. So let's just talk about can we just talk about infidelity. So let's say infidelity porn or something like that. When that trust is broken I would resemble that to be rug being ripped out from underneath someone.

00:26:50:16 - 00:27:19:28
Unknown
Right. So any foundation that they thought that they might have had is unstable now. And so what I've seen is wives begin to try to grasp for air and not fall under water through asking questions. And that's normally difficult for their spouse. And it begins to rebuild a foundation because the thought process goes, okay, if I miss this or I didn't know this, what else have I missed?

00:27:20:01 - 00:27:58:29
Unknown
Or what exactly happened? And playing it back. Some wives don't want to remember the answers to some of those questions, so we coach women through that. However, when a husband is unwilling to even answer those questions, forgiveness can't even begin to happen. So let's. The first step is talking through everything that's going on and hopefully the wife creating a space to allow the hurt and the disappointment to come, and the frustration or the anger and the rage and go through the process of grieving fully, which often involves all of those emotions.

00:27:59:02 - 00:28:20:03
Unknown
That if that were step number two, then the third step would be that we're called in the Bible. If we're believers, we're called to forgive. And sometimes people try and wait to forgive when they feel like it. And that's the opposite way. We're not called to forgive when we feel like forgiving. We are called to forgive because Jesus forgave us.

00:28:20:05 - 00:28:42:08
Unknown
And so some of the process that we walk women through is forgiveness. And for this show, how we would prompt someone to do that would be for me to sit down and think through all the things that Jesus has forgiven me for. And when I think about all the things that he's forgiven me for, that can open a space for grace, for all the things that I need to forgive you for.

00:28:42:10 - 00:29:02:12
Unknown
Right? Because it'd be hypocritical of me to receive this forgiveness, yet not forgive you. Like somehow your sin is greater and it puts me in the place of God and I am not God. Yet my pride and my ego and my hurt would want me to put it, put me in that place and be revengeful and passive aggressive and want to hurt and punish you.

00:29:02:14 - 00:29:29:18
Unknown
You asked a small question, but I feel like it has all of these lots of pieces to it, and it's a process. I used to think that when someone asked Jesus how many times you're supposed to forgive, and his answer was seven times 77, and I thought that meant seven times 77 different things. And what I've come to find out is that I've needed to forgive you over and over again for the same thing, and it's not for you.

00:29:29:18 - 00:29:57:23
Unknown
It's actually for me. Because when I don't forgive you, I stay in bondage, I stay stuck. And it hinders my relationship with the Lord because I'm sinning. Because I am called to forgive. So many good nuggets there. Yeah, it happens right there. In many relationships there's a level of trust that's broken. Right. And we've seen a lot of people that have have fallen into either infidelity or struggling with pornography.

00:29:57:26 - 00:30:16:12
Unknown
Different their sexual sin and lust. And so I think I think it's a relevant conversation for today's age. Like we need it need to be talked about a lot more because couples are stuck. They don't know how to work through that. Like, the wife is bitter. The husband starts to put up walls like she. If she's never going to get over it, I don't know what I can do.

00:30:16:13 - 00:30:37:24
Unknown
Like I'll never be perfect, right? And so it's like they just they just they get into this place where there's, gridlock going on. When what Christ has called us to is freedom. Galatians five one for freedom, Christ sets you free. Right? So there's just so many couples that are not living in freedom and peace, right? And the only way to get to a place of peace is through forgiveness.

00:30:37:26 - 00:31:01:06
Unknown
And for the person that had the trespass, it's for confession. Right. Confessions a powerful part of living in peace. People don't realize that if they keep the things in the dark, those things in the dark trap, then you want to own it more than it owns you. And when it's in the dark and you've done something you haven't shared, man, it will really trap you and it will take your peace.

00:31:01:08 - 00:31:21:04
Unknown
And on this side, will. You've had to forgive me for plenty of things. But when we. When I talk, when I think about forgiveness, for me it also comes with this degree of the world would say, just leave then. And guess what? From a woman side, you will find a man with another. Like sexual brokenness is so prevalent.

00:31:21:07 - 00:31:51:07
Unknown
Addiction is so prevalent in society. So I don't know, there'd be very few few men in this world that you can meet that that wouldn't be in the next relationship also. And so I had to come to this place where I'm not a victim to it happening. Right. And who has God called me? What if now this wouldn't have been God's will, but he uses all things and what if this instance was the exact way that God wanted to grow me?

00:31:51:13 - 00:32:14:21
Unknown
Because I used to love you conditionally, right when you did what I wanted you to do, then I love you. And I still have tinges of that in me. And what if this was for me and what I wanted to grow another way? 100% right? Like what could there have been another way? And this has grown me. You said it earlier that marriage isn't meant to make us happy.

00:32:14:21 - 00:32:36:28
Unknown
It's meant to make us holy. So in the grand scheme of things, it has been to the benefit of me and to us that we have gone through this together, where many couples would have just said, all right, it's over. We're not we're not going to we're not going to keep going. And me loving you, regardless of who you are and you loving me, regardless of who I am.

00:32:36:28 - 00:32:56:24
Unknown
And the commitment that we have to each other is the closest thing that I think that we could get to Christ's love, like here on earth. Is it marriage? No. It's a it's a beautiful thing. Yeah. No I appreciate that. I love to get you on this podcast more, get you in this office more or our studio more because you have so much great wisdom.

00:32:56:26 - 00:33:16:04
Unknown
You read more than any other person that I personally know. See, you're always in a book. You're always growing, always learning, always investing, always coaching and learning from the coaching. Like you're the amount of knowledge and wisdom that you have is, significant. So let's definitely have some more conversations and keep digging in. All right? Love you, babe.

00:33:16:08 - 00:33:17:21
Unknown
You. Love you.