The Jewish Singer

Episode 20: Singing as a Tool for Healing Trauma (with guest Naomi Lerman)

• Nechama Leah Dahan • Season 1 • Episode 20

Share episode


In this enlightening conversation, Nechama Leah Dahan interviews Naomi Lerman, a trauma-informed coach and survivor of sexual assault. Naomi shares her unique approach to healing through her Victory Dance Method, which combines movement, nutrition, and mindset work to help women heal joyfully without reliving their past traumas. The discussion delves into the role of singing and body awareness in trauma healing, the importance of cultivating an inner cheerleader to combat negative self-talk, and the significance of finding joy and redefining happiness in the healing journey.

Note: sexual assault is mentioned briefly in this episode but not discussed in any detail. 

Hi friends. Welcome back to the Jewish Singer Podcast. Thanks so much for tuning in. Today's episode is a really special one. It's an interview with my friend Naomi Luhrman, who is a trauma-informed coach, a performer, and a survivor of sexual assault. She's the founder of Victory Dance Coaching and the creator of the Victory Dance. Method and today we're gonna discuss. Using singing as a tool for healing. So now she's coming from the perspective of a therapeutic, you know, coaching trauma, trauma-based coaching perspective. And I'm coming from a perspective of a voice teacher who is very interested in. How singing can be used to heal. And I think all of us need to heal in some regard. And sometimes it's even healing related to the voice, or sometimes the voice can be used to do some healing around some other thing in our lives. And while this conversation might feel slightly different than the usual thing that I put on my podcast, it's very much in line with. Who I am as a voice teacher, and I really hope you're gonna get something from it. And thank you so much for tuning in. Don't forget to share this episode with your friends if it resonates with you.

Naomi Lerman:

I'm so happy to be here with you.

Nechama Leah:

Really. Thank, thank you. It's so beautiful and I'm just so grateful that you've given me the time to, be here on here with you. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to have you and have a fresh face on the podcast. That's normally just me talking So Naomi, for those people that don't know you listening here, can you tell us a little bit about what you do, who you are, what is Victory dance coaching.

Naomi Lerman:

So I am a survivor of, uh, sexual assault and through the experiences that I had working on my personal healing, I developed a method called a Victory Dance Method. I'm a trauma-informed coach, and I help women who've experienced sexual trauma heal joyfully without reliving the past. I use various modalities, sort of. Very unique to every single individual that I work with and things from movement to nutrition, to soul set to mindset. It's a lot of mindset work. But really picking and choosing what works best for the individual that I'm working with because as we are all unique, our healing journeys are all unique as well.

Nechama Leah:

Amazing. Such powerful work. And so you're also a singer. I, I know you from singing things. So can you tell us a little bit about your experience with singing and how you work that into your coaching?

Naomi Lerman:

So I have been singing professionally from the age of about four or five. Everything from. Pop Rock. I was paid to do Gregorian chat work. At one point. I studied opera at the university level. I had an absolute privilege of studying with Nechama Leah, and she's an incredible coach for anyone that is on the fence. Jumped two feet in, it's a hundred percent worth it. And then how that translates into the work that I do. It's really incredible. Once you learn about trauma-informed coaching and you learn how the body works as a whole, when it comes to releasing trauma from the body, there's something called the vagus nerve that connects the brains, the gut to whole, all different parts of your body, and it really. Helps us understand why this sort of multifaceted work really does help with trauma healing. Because a lot of the trauma healing that I experienced before was sort of, shoulders up a lot of, trying to talk through things, think through things, opposite actions through things, but that's like a very masculine energy. And the fact of the matter is the way our body holds trauma, it's in a more. Gentle way, even though it doesn't feel gentle, but it's sort of just sitting there. So the way to release it has to come from a more gentle way, whether it's movement or in the case here that we're talking about with the voice. So singing or humming, you don't have to be the most beautiful singer in the world, but what it does is the vibration of the vocal cords activates the vagus nerve and allows the body to relax. And I like to think of it as. No one's gonna be chased by a lion singing a pop song, an aria song, a rock song, right? So if you're feeling like in that fight or flight, or that freeze, or the fawn or whatever aspects you are of your healing journey, if you start singing or humming and really connecting to that part of yourself that's like deep, deep within your body will be able to sort of release and relax and realize that. You aren't actually being chased by a lying right now. It's something happening in your brain. It's a mislabeling of your body, thinking that right now you are re-experiencing the trauma, which is not the case. So you're trying to remind your body, um, I. That we're here and we're now, and it's always fun to sing something that you connect with from a good time in your life so you can have that added element to using your voice. So you're reminding your brain, your brain is always listening to you. When I heard that, at first, I thought, wow, that's really scary. Like I'm, I'm perfectionist at heart, so my brain is always listening. Hmm. I never wanna say something wrong, but it can also work to our advantage where if you sing a song you remember from your childhood or your teens that like. Really connects you to your heart place, that inner part of you, that authentic space. You can remind your body, I'm safe. I have good memories right now. Feels hard, but it doesn't have to be painful, and I can tap into that even to. Outside the singing realm. Um, you can even chew gum and it sort of does the same thing. It's that activation of the mouth, the salivary glands, and then even more so than if you're singing or humming the vibrations of the vocal cords. That helps with that, reminding your body that you're safe.

Nechama Leah:

Amazing. Okay. You said so much there already. I'm like, oh, I have like three different things I wanna ask, but I guess the first thing I'll start with is, so when you're working with a client in this regard, um, you are using the singing as a tool. Like how does that work in the coaching? I'm, I'm assuming you're not replicating sort of like the trauma stimulus in, in a coaching session, but like you're helping give them a tool. Yeah. This tool is so that they could use it when they are feeling like triggered by a certain trauma. How does that work?

Naomi Lerman:

Correct. So the really cool thing about coaching, which some therapists do do this, but it's really the realm of the coach is figuring out. Between therapy sessions, between when you're seeing a psychiatrist, when you're feeling the intensities, in the moments when you're at home. I help. My clients figure out what tools work with them in the moment, in our coaching sessions once a week. So my program is, generally three months and then you can sign on for another three months, the first part is focusing is the foundational work, and I go through mind, body, and soul. We start with the mindset, and then we move to more body-based practices. And then the third month is soul-based practices. There are, we do weekly sessions, and in the sessions, like you said, we learn which tools work best for the client. So some clients do not wanna do singing. Maybe they don't even like humming. It's something that bothers them. But there are gazillion tools on this planet that we can use. So I get to know my client. My client gets to know me, and we pick and choose. What sort of tools that we will practice in the sessions together and then in real life, like you said, when you're experiencing that intensity in emotion, in, in the moment of emotions or even, it's like beyond that, it's a physical reaction and your brain is not even there. You, we teach each other, we work together to figure out, okay, how can I remind myself that singing helps that. Humming helps, or with some people it's more movement. With some people it's literally lifting heavy boxes like going around your house and finding something super heavy to pick up.'cause who can pick up a super heavy thing and their brain, your brain just detaches like you're thinking about, wow, this is really heavy. Instead of all the negative trauma thoughts that you might've been thinking before or re-experiencing. Whatever happens to you in the moment, right? So that it's sort of that physical pulls you out. So whether it's singing, whether it's lifting heavy things, um, dancing, the reason it's called the Victory Dance Method, um, it's another tool that I developed and I, I did it with myself and then I sort of tried it on my kids and then I saw that it worked. So it sort of went from there. Basically, I realized that, you know, those moments where you. You've really worked hard towards a goal and, and you achieve it or you get that email and you clinch that job or whatever it is, all of a sudden you just like move in a very natural way. Like, oh my gosh, yes. Or ah, you know, whatever that is, that like victory physical movement that you can't really control. It just happens. And my thought process was, okay, if this is happening naturally, it's not something I have to teach myself. It's something that happens. But what would happen if I used that and tried to do it? Teaching myself a habit to fill my body with good feelings. So at first I did it, making sure I did it. When I achieved something that I was working towards, I would really physically feel it out, fill my body with joy, magic, beauty, like whatever it is that I really wanted to feel. Then the harder part is doing it on a daily basis where you do it as a habit. You wake up in the morning and maybe you're someone that doesn't like meditating, but the victory dance would be really helpful for you. You get out of bed, you fill your body with joy. You just move your body in the most joyful way that you can and it sort of sets you up for the rest of the day. And then like the highest level, say if we're playing a video game, you know, unlocking the highest level of the victory is doing it in the moment when you are feeling like crap. Where you might be having terrible memories or flashbacks or thoughts that are coming into your head or your body is feeling like it's being chased by a lion, you could stop. And on one hand you can put on a piece of music that's helpful because it sort of, it triggers that memory in our brain. Okay. We've been working on this habit, so maybe it's a song you've been consistently using, so it reminds your body, okay, we're gonna do the victory dance, even though we definitely do not feel like doing it right now. Or, um, I like to do it with nothing because for me, the best tools are the ones that you can do wherever you are. In any place, any time with it doesn't cost any money and you don't need anything with you to do it. So, uh, that's what I tried to do with no music. I'll be feeling locked in my body, locked in my thoughts, not locked in that negative noise in my head. And I'll pause in the magic of the pause and I will just try to imagine and remind myself how did it feel like? When I try to achieve that goal, and it have been, and I just naturally move, right? How did it feel like in the morning or in the evening before bed when I was using this as a habit and sort of fill my mind, body and soul with that sense memory of that feeling of what a victory dance feels like. And then eventually your body just moves like whether you like it or not. And so that for me was like the primary tool that I started with. But it really is so many other pieces. Like the reason I focused on body, for example, in the middle. Is there were definitely peers in my life where I was just like eating garbage that was not helping me, was not giving me the energy that I needed in order to do the healing. My brain wasn't getting the right nutrients and able to be empowered enough. Literally on a biochemical level. Yeah. In order to, that's so important. Like if you go to therapy and you really haven't eaten and you really haven't slept and you really haven't moved your body, you can't talk yourself outta that box. Right? So the beauty of my coaching is that I'm giving you, I'm helping you, I'm guiding you with your unique skillset and the unique things that you love in your life and the struggles that you have to give you the tools that you can. Really amplify the therapy the best you can. Or if you're on psychiatric medication, really amplifying it as a also a tool in your tool basket instead of just hoping for the best. Throwing caution to the wind, not feeding your body properly, not drinking enough water, not sleeping, and then being like, okay, well why do I feel so bad? Why am I so sad and depressed? And so it's taking that like telescopic view and sort of. Trying out different things and because it's one-on-one coaching, it gives me that ability. Like, we could try something, it doesn't work, and that's fine. Like I'm really excited. I have a client this Thursday and I'm surprising her with something that she loves a specific genre of music. I don't wanna say it just in case. I don't know. I don't wanna like, yeah. And anonymity because it's a very specific type of music and she loves it. And I found on YouTube a five minute choreography to this type of music. And so part of our body. A month is we're gonna learn this choreography together and we're gonna do it together. And if she loves it, then she can do it on a daily basis, or she can pull it out when she's sort of not feeling completely frozen, but feeling emotional and wants to release it, put on the fine on a YouTube video and do the choreography alone. Right. It's like really thinking outside the box. I love that.

Nechama Leah:

I love that it's choreography too, because then that takes the guesswork out of it, or she doesn't have to go. Okay. I'm supposed to dance at what is, what am I gonna dance? It's just like, okay, get yourself out of the head. Get yourself into, into that. That's so wonderful.

Naomi Lerman:

And it's the same thing like'cause of the where we're at, you and I speaking about the voice. Like you pick a song that maybe is like a little bit hard for you to sing if you're a singer, you know? Okay. I'm feeling. A little bit bad, but not a terribly hard song that's gonna make you feel bad about yourself, but you don't wanna stretching you. Maybe it's stretching your belt or something like that. Then use that so it gets you out of your head. You're thinking about trying to put in technique. If you're a singer, it would work. If you're not a singer, it wouldn't, but you know. Focusing on the technique, and then it pulls you away from the negative thoughts because you become so focused and you become so goal, goal oriented. Right. And it's not avoiding the thoughts or avoiding the trauma because we do other things to release them, but sometimes in the moment you just need to do something to get yourself out of your head and outta your body. Yeah. And the beauty of singing is literal vibration of the vocal chords is actually activating. Like the nervous system in order to, you're making it do what you want it to do, plus you're doing something you enjoy, which is singing. Yeah. And you're taking yourself out of your head because maybe you're pushing yourself to try something that's a little harder than you usually would. Right, right. So it's very unique and it's

Nechama Leah:

individual. What if someone is not a singer, but they wanna use this tool? Like, what does that look like for them? And, and do you see those benefits for those types of people? As much as someone who identifies as a singer. I like that. A lot of people who are singers, by the way, people who come to me for voice lessons, they are uncomfortable to call themselves singers. Right?'cause they're learning. But everybody who sings is a singer percent. So, you know, it's like we should all be comfortable to say that, I think. And I also feel like

Naomi Lerman:

if you want to be a singer, then call yourself that and just keep working towards it. Exactly.

Nechama Leah:

Right.

Naomi Lerman:

Um, okay, so yes, first of all, hundred percent. If you're someone that loves singing, but you're not, I dunno, I can't think of a singer, someone like on the wall, but you genuinely enjoy singing. Even if you're singing tone deaf, then it works for you. It's, it's the enjoyment that you are feeling your body with. They couldn't care less like whoever's in the house and doesn't like your singing. Maybe don't do it in front of them.'cause you might feel bad if they. Tell you that you're singing not well, but it, it's, it's more about doing the thing that makes you feel joyful. So say you're not someone who enjoys singing, say you, you just, you're not a good singer and you don't like it. You can hum. It's just literally the vibration of folk chord. So you can also hum at different tones. Like, I wanna feel joyful. So that joyful feeling for me is in like a more upper humming tone. Right, or I really wanna dig deep into like my heart center. I wanna feel grounded, so I might hum in a low tone. So it's really like playing with the tool and figuring out how it works for you. Maybe you're. You feel joyful in a lower tone, right? Like I can't tell you that you have to figure that out for yourself, but it's sort of that very versatile tool. You could be singing an Aria, an Italian, because that fills you with joy. It takes you outta your head and it really allows you to release a trauma. Or you could. Becoming absolutely at Tuneless tune, but moving from high to low to find how you feel while you're doing it. And if you're feeling that release, then, then you're doing it right. Like there's no right or wrong doing it.

Nechama Leah:

Okay. So Naomi, um, maybe it's'cause I'm a singer and a singing teacher, but when you say someone doesn't enjoy singing. So maybe night might not use it as a tool. I'm like, Hmm. But I, I guess I'm, I'm interested in to hear your opinion about that. Do you think that that's just like a natural normal? Some people prefer it, some people don't. Or that if someone is having resistance to doing, to using the voice as part of this work, that maybe there's some. Something to work through with that or some trauma around the voice, or do you think it's just totally normal and natural for someone not to wanna

Naomi Lerman:

say? So? I think it's sort of one of those like yes and mm-hmm. Meaning the beauty of the voice is like if you, if you're someone that's experienced, abused, or rape and you feel like your voiceless, you feel like your voice was taken away from you. It might be that you think, oh, singing is not my thing. I don't wanna do that. But it's, it's rooted in the trauma. Yeah. It's rooted in feeling like I'm voiceless. I don't deserve to have a voice. I don't deserve to express myself in a voice louder than a whisper. Definitely. And, and that's the thing with 1 0 1 coaching. Like I can read the person if they're like, oh, like I hate singing. Okay. So then we see, so there's something

Nechama Leah:

going on. Yeah.

Naomi Lerman:

Well they could do this and it's like they genuinely hate singing, but, um, but then I think there also can be, like, I have members in my family that genuinely do not like it when I sing and it's a sensory thing. It's a noise thing. Mm-hmm. And I joke to them, like, people pay me hundreds of dollars to sing and you don't want me to sing, like we joke about it, but I realize it's a sensory thing, like. These members of my family, it makes them uncomfortable. The, the volume, the changes of volume, the, it's just like a more, they genuinely don't like singing and they don't like other people singing. So I think you have to read a person. And I think I, I was shocked because I'd never met anyone like this. And then I happen to like birth people like this. Yeah. It's um, I totally understand where you're coming from and I definitely think that could be a thing, but I also. Now realize that there are people that for them it's like it's too obtrusive and it's not from a trauma place. It's from, it's like, you know, the sound of like chewing while you're eating. Yeah. That's

Nechama Leah:

just could be like a sensory thing. Yeah. Yeah. I have students, this could be a little bit of a tangent, but, I have one student in particular that I think of who. Has always wanted to sing really well, and it's been like a lifelong dream of hers. But I can't say that she's gotten to the point where she enjoys the singing because she's just, very much in the, in her head about it. And am I being perfect and am I doing it right? So, I guess maybe these are sort of like parallel things we're talking about of like the way that you would work with your students. The way that I work with my clients, but sometimes I have to work with a student to even get them to enjoy the process of the singing, even though they so badly want to. So I don't know. Would you have any advice for, for people like that, I'm sure there are many of us out here who sometimes struggle to just be in the enjoyment of it rather than thinking about like, am I doing it correctly?

Naomi Lerman:

I feel like there are a lot of different roots to go with that, and it's that perfectionism where you're listening to yourself and you can't. Step out of yourself and just enjoy the moment. And I imagine perhaps this person who experiences that with singing might also experience that in other areas of their life where they feel like maybe I'm not good enough. And they get so stuck in their thoughts that they literally, they can't live in the moment.'cause the noise is. So loud. So for me, I would look at the person and I, there's so many different options, but I might start with something that is not singing that they really don't care much about. And they can start to understand what it feels like to do something just with unadulterated joy. Just because, just like you know, dancing, like nobody's watching you. And maybe it's not dancing, maybe it's painting, maybe it's cooking, maybe it's something. And then once they understand and they. Not so much understand what they can feel, what it feels like to truly do something in flow, to truly do something with joy. Then we could go back to the singing and say, okay, this is how I want to feel and now I felt it. So I really. Can genuinely understand what it feels like. How can I get myself there? And so then the exercise to get ourselves there feel a little bit less hard because we know the outcome. We know what it's gonna feel like. We know it's gonna feel absolutely incredible. So then when we start to do the work of, okay, what are the, what are the messages you're hearing in your head when you're singing and how can we untangle that and how can we replace that with an inner cheerleader, which will allow you to just let go and feel that. But before we can really. Go into that work. I feel like that's a lot of the, the trouble that I had in therapy where they're like, okay, well we want you to be in a state where you feel happy. Right. So I went through my whole life thinking, okay, goal happiness. There are people that live their life always in happiness, nothing that ever happens to them. Mm-hmm. They're always smiling and enjoying life and. That's not a reality, right? And that's not the definition of happiness. But when you're told, okay, we're doing this work in order for you to feel happy or in order for you not to feel depressed, in order for you not to feel trapped in your body, it, there's a disconnect. But if we can. Understand and actually feel that joy or feel that happiness and then work backwards. It's a lot easier to do the more hard work, and it makes it less painful because we know what our goal is. So when I realize happiness is being able to move through the hard emotions, happiness is feeling my life with the things that make me feel joyous, not just be joyous, feel joyous, and that's where I wanna go. And that's my personal definition of happiness. It's so much easier to get there. So it's about. Redefining terms, allowing ourselves to actually feel what we wanna feel maybe in a different modality or in a different setting, and then going back and trying to do the work in a way that is less painful, it's less uncomfortable, it's less heavy because we already know that incredible state that we wanna feel and we know what it looks like and we can just get there faster

Nechama Leah:

because the body has already experienced it and so we can try to remember it. That's

Naomi Lerman:

amazing. And it's the same thing that we do with the victory dance, right? It's like we, we make, we help ourselves feel joy internally when it's not hard. It's like what they say. Like, when you're having a conflict with someone, you shouldn't really try to work it out in the moment because it's just too hard. You're both in the, the temperature of it, the heat of it, right? It's very hard to disconnect. So if we te we teach our body, we show our body, this is what it feels like to feel joy in the moments that are easy, then in the moments that are hard. We do the work in order to get ourselves there.

Nechama Leah:

Yeah. Amazing. You mentioned something about an inner cheerleader. How does one, I know it's probably a, a longer, like a big discussion, maybe individual as well, but how does one sort of cultivate that? Especially someone who is, like we were talking about having a really loud inner critic. How does that, how does that flip happen?

Naomi Lerman:

So I went years with what I called a round table discussion and, this is not really the venue for it, but I have a very long history of being misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder and being in a psychiatric ward and all these things. And like people kept telling me, there's something wrong with you.'cause I kept saying, oh, I had this round table discussion in my head. Right? But first of all, it was a lot of complex trauma compounded plus the rape included in all of that. And I had never really been taught how to release it. And I had. Voices of my abusers in my head, just the negative critic that we all have in our head. And literally they would have full up discussions. And I was not seated at that table. I didn't know what I like to do, what my favorite color was. You know, I would just refer to other people or literally the table discussion in my head like, oh yeah, what am I supposed to feel in this moment? Like, who am I supposed to be with this group of people and this inner cheerleader concept. So many times there's so many different modalities and therapies. People will be like, oh, you know, the mirror exercise? Where you look in the mirror and tell yourself, oh, like beautiful, like. Who likes that? It's horrifying. It's horrible. It's really, really hard, especially when your mind is so full of negative stuff, right? Yeah. So it's starting with smaller things. It is doing the uncomfortable and saying out loud like, you know, I'm strong. I'm worthy. Maybe not doing it in front of a mirror, but doing it when you're lifting something heavy, Hey, look, I'm physically strong. Maybe that means I'm actually mentally strong and spiritually strong. And just having the awareness, starting with the awareness of. Oh wow. Like I just helped a friend. Wow. I'm compassionate, I'm empathetic. I'm someone that can help people. Hmm. And

Nechama Leah:

then

Naomi Lerman:

just repeating that

Nechama Leah:

to yourself, right? That's so hard. That's so hard for people who have never done it to themselves and also either or, and never got that input from someone else, like maybe who didn't have parents who did that for them. And so, I mean, that's, that's typically where I see this show up in with my students. Is like they grew up in, in homes where it was very difficult to feel seen and validated and, and maybe they didn't get all of that, positive reinforcement. So it have to do it to yourself can be tricky. It's

Naomi Lerman:

impossible almost.

Nechama Leah:

But that's the work, right? You're saying I can

Naomi Lerman:

also tell you that like, I was totally in near camp. I was like, this is never gonna happen. Well, the cab you're speaking about, maybe not you, how you personally feel, but like it was never gonna happen. I'm never gonna look in a mirror and, and like think I'm beautiful. It's, I'm not gonna be able to say these things out loud to myself. I'm not gonna this inner cheerleader or what's that? But I just kept showing up. I just kept believing in myself. I just kept doing the work and one day I was in the elevator and I looked in the mirror and I didn't say or think anything. It was like neutral and I was like, ha, ha, ha. The angels arrived. There was no noise, there was no negative self-talk. There were no cheerleading for sure. Not yet, but there was nothing. Yeah, she was like, okay, okay. I did it. I looked in the mirror and there, and I was someone for 10 years. We didn't have a mirror in our house. My husband would complain about it'cause the only mirror was in the bathroom. Like I refuse to have mirrors in the house. And all of a sudden I was looking in the mirror and it was nothing. So then again, you do the, I kept doing the work and I remember that neutral voice, and every time I look in the mirror and feel the negative, it was like, okay, well we were neutral, so let's try to get ourselves back there and then just keep showing up, keep showing up, and trying to do it in a way that makes you feel joy. It makes you feel. Filled with love and in any way that you can. And I know that's so, so, so hard. But it's, it's finding those awarenesses where it is happening in your life and reminding yourself and doing the work. And now I do workouts, like I love lifting heavy. It's something that I absolutely adore. I'll do workouts, for example, I did a plank challenge last month and I was trying to hold it as long as I could. Planks are hard. It's a total mind bend. Yes, they are. It's not really a physical thing, it's literally a mental thing. And I would say out loud, my kids would be like, walking around, you can do it. You are strong. Look at you. Wow, you're amazing. And like me, little me, who literally had not said a good word to myself for like 35 plus years, 37 years, I am able to do it. And I think that's something that really inspires my clients because I'm not someone who's like. Never been there. I've always been able to talk to myself this way. And now, okay, now I'm telling you to do it. Right. No, absolutely not. I went for most of my life up until this point, never even thinking it was possible for myself. And I think knowing that my client, my clients are inspired, they feel like, okay, well if she can do it, then maybe I can do it. And really the work happens when you can be open to it. Right. And so when they look at me and they're like, okay, she could do it. It sort of like opens their heart to things and concepts and tools that they might not have been open to before.

Nechama Leah:

Yeah. And now

Naomi Lerman:

all of a sudden they might not be cheerleading, but they might be neutral, which is a very big step. And then when they're neutral, we literally have a dance party. We're like, yes, you did it. You didn't say anything in New York.

Nechama Leah:

Amazing. Yeah.

Naomi Lerman:

We like fill ourselves with joy for that very, very moment so that when the hard times come, we can remind ourselves, wow, remember that victory dance party that we had? Let's try to feel that again. You know? So it's like a combination of inspiration, awareness of where you're feeling it elsewhere, trying to fill your head without judgment as best you can, and then just keep showing up and keep showing up.

Nechama Leah:

I love this. It's, um, having people like you in their

Naomi Lerman:

life, like, yeah, I'm gonna voice lesson with you, and like, I, I feel empowered. There's sometimes where I'm struggling and I'm annoyed and I can't do something, but you have this common sense about you and you have this. You can do it vibe. Mm-hmm. And, and it's surrounding yourself with people like that. And it's filling your head with things like podcasts and audio books or whatever it is, with positive messages.

Nechama Leah:

I love that.

Naomi Lerman:

If you're sensitive and you've never heard something good about you or empowering said you in your entire life, listening to sad music. Unfortunately, listening to negative podcasts, listening to negative audio books, reading negative things right now at this stage in your life. It's a detriment, like you're not helping yourself and you might wanna be the person that wants to listen to sad music, but remember that you're actually making it harder for yourself. And I'm going through this right now. Won also, like I still, I want to be able to listen to music that really touches me and makes me cry. I will get stuck there. So do I want that for myself if I'm like really busy with my clients and everything going on and then it's like, no, don't do that to yourself. Like, try to be your best friend kid. It's a

Nechama Leah:

trade off.

Naomi Lerman:

Beautiful things. Yeah, it's really hard and it's annoying'cause like I wanna listen to sound music. Yeah,

Nechama Leah:

I would.

Naomi Lerman:

It's not music,

Nechama Leah:

right. But

Naomi Lerman:

it's a choice. If I do, I will, I will get stuck there. And it's like knowing yourself.

Nechama Leah:

Right. Amazing. We're Fortunately we've run out of time. I feel like we could, we could make this conversation go forever. Is there anything, Naomi, that you have coming up, if someone wanted to reach out to you and work with you, what's available?

Naomi Lerman:

Okay, so the two best places to reach out to me are on Instagram or Facebook. My handle is Naomi Larman, VDC, victory Dance Cote. You can reach out to me off social media, so if that's a better option for you, although I, if you're finding you're probably on social media, but she does have information, maybe not.

Nechama Leah:

'cause my podcast is also on 24 6, so

Naomi Lerman:

that's true. So if, if you aren't someone on social media, you can reach out to her for my information. Also, next week I am doing a four day challenge. It's, I'm really, really excited about it. It's going to be on Facebook. We're going to be going through the mind, body, and soul. Sort of template that we talked about. It is specifically for women, um, who've experienced sexual trauma. So if that isn't you, I do do other things, but this particular challenge is specifically for that and um, it's gonna be really incredible. There are 20 spots and there actually is going to be a prize at the end for a challenge winner. So it's not just, you're just gonna join in and try to do your best. Um, for most it engaged, there's gonna be different rules and you'll win a free month of coaching with me, so it's

Nechama Leah:

Oh, amazing.

Naomi Lerman:

Jumping in. Um, and there is a prize for the, for the challenge winners. So check me out on social media or reach out to, and,

Nechama Leah:

and what's the date? Just so, because hopefully I'm gonna publish this episode really soon, but what's the date of the challenge starting? So it's

Naomi Lerman:

uh, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. It is June 16th, 17th, 18th, and 19th. Great. I will be holding them once a month, so if you're listening to this podcast, okay. You know, further down the road I'll probably change, maybe change the themes or whatever. So check it out, see what's going on, see what the next challenge is. I do have the Victory Dance Community Group, which is really for anyone who, who's experienced trauma that wants some guidance, some cheerleading, so external cheerleading, so you can channel the Victory Dance Community online. And that's on Facebook, sorry. And that's where the challenge will be held within.

Nechama Leah:

Okay, great. Wonderful. Thank you so much Naomi. This, this is really, beautiful and enlightening and I wish you a lot of, with your coaching, it sounds like you are really just a perfect sha for healing for women everywhere. So thank you for that.

Naomi Lerman:

Thank you so, so much. I really appreciate your time.