Understanding human needs in an educational setting with Dr. Elizabeth Joy Schaefer

In this episode of the Theropod podcast, Banu Balaji, the host and an occupational Therapist chats with  Dr. Elizabeth Joy Schaefer, Occupational Therapist and the founder of Therapeutic Innovations International LLC. Elizabeth has dedicated her career to developing innovative therapeutic solutions that address complex educational and health challenges on a global scale.Dr Elizabeth shares her insights on child development and the challenges parents face in today's technology-driven society. The conversation delves into the importance of understanding human needs in educational settings, particularly for teenagers navigating social dynamics and mental health issues.

The podcast contains a heartfelt discussion that combines professional expertise with personal anecdotes, especially as Elizabeth and the host reflect on their own parenting experiences. This episode is part of a back-to-school series aimed at providing valuable strategies for parents and educators alike. Tune in for an engaging exploration of fostering connections and supporting children's growth in today's complex world.

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Transcript

This week's episode,  we have Dr. Elizabeth Joy Schaefer. She's the founder of Therapeutic Innovations International LLC with a strong foundation in occupational therapy and human development.  Elizabeth has devoted her career to creating groundbreaking therapeutic solutions that tackle complex educational and health challenges globally.

 Elizabeth research and her professional pursuits are fueled by a deep commitment to child development,  parental growth

elizabeth is a distinguished fellow of the International Forum for Inclusion Professionals and serves as the co chair of the IFIP Specialists and Therapists. She's a board certified occupational therapist and lives with her family in Belgium, and she facilitates on site and online training and coaching programs

elizabeth is not just a colleague, but she's also a dear friend of mine, and I'm excited to be talking to her on this back to school series on Theropod podcast.

 And this episode also seems like a good space to discuss my own struggles and, in getting my daughter back to school last year. So only because Beth is such a good friend of mine. I know she has such a valuable , insights into, this difficulty. , even on a personal level. , so we're just wondering jump right in.

 I've struggled a little last year, to be honest with my girl. , a lot of social kind of difficulties. Not of her making, but came at her. But being 14 year years old, it just, I think, spiraled in her own head.

And, and I think this relentless,  access  to Snapchat, not access, you know, the, the presence of Snapchat and Instagram and things like that doesn't really give you a break from it sometimes from the drama.  Oh. It's all settled now. , and the only thing I found is to give her those breaks to say, okay, you can take a day or two off. Okay. And then ready. But I kind of had to figure that out on my own while everyone else said you can't let her do that.

You can't let her skip school. It becomes a habit.  You know, it, it, it, she will never get back to, you know, get back on the horse if you keep letting her, allowing her to take those breaks. But I kind of felt differently. This was including my GP that said that. Well, I think mother's intuition is a wonderful thing and we should honor that. 

So if your intuition in that moment, being with your daughter and feeling how she felt, if your intuition said she needs a break.  Then I would, I would agree with that. And it's very hard to listen and follow that intuition. Isn't it? When  all around you, everyone's like, no,  has to be going to school. That's one of.

The big things that I struggle with and reason why I did the research on parent stress and all of these elements is because our society  has a lot of challenges that are making parenting, connecting with our children, our children connecting with children.  Technology, like there's so many elements that are making parenting even more difficult and making those decisions.

And you're right, you know, there's different people that have different opinions. And I think when it comes down to it,  you know, what are the human needs? And it sounds like your daughter needed  just some time away. And I've done this for my son. And when he's had moments where he's just overwhelmed and stressed in work, we take days off.

We take sick days. Why can't they at school?  Yeah, we don't wait for midterm breaks and summer breaks. Yeah. And, and so I think it's honoring the human needs  in that moment  to restore well being.  And, and that comes in different forms for different people.  And even the whole how the system is set, I'm like, okay, I'm very aware that I don't want the podcast to be a rant, but just to even put it out there, how it is set up in a way, um, that isn't fit for purpose, because if I looked at my own girl, 14, uh, puberty hit, hormones all over the place,  you know, there isn't going to be, you know, your days off aren't going to be Saturdays and Sundays. 

And weekends and, you know, sorry, weekends or midterm breaks or summer holidays, they're going to be any time and there isn't really a recognition of what's going through these teenagers hormonally. I think,  you know, as I'm seeing different problems arise and problems, longstanding new ones, I think the need to help human development.

Needs to be incorporated into the schools more. It's not just about knowledge. It's about human beings being able to work together, understand themselves, understand their strengths, understand their challenges,  understand what it takes for them to be able to focus in class or to take a break so they can regain focus.

You know, with AI and chat GBT and.  Information age. I think we have to strengthen now the person more and when I was in the conference that was hosted by UNESCO and I F I P and they have five pillars that they're looking at in ways to support education, changes and initiatives, and one of them is safe and belonging  and welcoming schools. 

And so, like you said, with your daughter, what if.  The school, as one of their initiatives,  was to make sure they put into place initiatives to create a self, a safe and welcoming environment.  Wouldn't that help so much the students to be happier, to feel more connected, to feel like they belong there, to want to go to school?

And on that safe and belonging piece, the flip side to that is we expect them to  In general, to treat people who have needs, difficulties, impairments and disabilities or whatever that that that whole spectrum with empathy with understanding with but at the same time they're not taught.  Or made aware of any of that during their developmental years.

So basically they're a little bit of it,   you know, to other people,  but we haven't actually done anything to, , foster inclusion, diversity. In others either,  and you're a hundred percent correct. I think that's what we're finding is the things we're expecting our students to be able to do, to organize themselves, to make a study plan, to time block  their, their study habits,  things that we've expected them to just automatically learn.

That it's not happening to to understand how to work as a team with someone else in a project. We're putting them in these environments and  and hoping that they learn the skills through experience. But we're dealing with different generations now. And I think we need to,  as we're increasing, you know, having these expectations

we need to give them the tools to do it. So they can then start from that strong foundation with the tools and strategies and then develop and grow into being able to work together to have empathy, but it takes that  personal growth piece. You know, it used to be, oh, you go to the counselor if you have an issue.

Like, I think personal growth has to be in the classroom,. And it doesn't take much.  It really doesn't. But it's just these little initiatives to help people better understand themselves and others. And That can go such a long way. And  just going back to even what you said there about in this, in, in this age of technology and AI and this information,  and we, and then we're now starting to focus on have you learned to code and have you learned this and have you learned that, but actually maybe looking at that human, um, aspect might be more important.

focusing on developing the human who's behind all of these  technologies that is the most important thing now. We've developed in technology.  It's going at a rapid, rapid, rapid pace.

So if people are having to work less and having more time, if they're not happy and solid and know where they are and their passion in the world and how they can contribute, it's not a good thing.  It's not a good thing. And we know, like, you know, more, , you know, research wise, because that's kind of your strength, that parental connections, parental relationships, social connections.

They're all the cornerstone for   mental health. Addiction  people think that's about drugs and alcohol. It really isn't. It's filling a void. It's filling a void of lack of connection, whether it's to themselves or it's a trauma that they're trying not to relive and they're trying to forget.

Or a thing in the past, but connection is something now more than ever that is so important. And I just saw an article from the American Academy of,, Pediatrics and Psychology showing now studies, research studies, that screen time is impacting the sensory development of infants and connection and neural wiring. 

This is things we know, , but, but,  We really,, now more than ever, you know, when a child is connecting with the iPad, which is part of our society. I mean, we can't change it, but we have to make sure we're conscious about them, making sure they connect outside of it equally as much and as important. And,  because humans need other humans  in different capacities.

And when we feel like we belong,  this is an innate human need. We feel connected. We have the motivation to do things. We have the confidence to do things. But in Maslow's hierarchy of needs,  the bottom part of that pyramid  is safety  and belonging and needs met. And one of those needs is absolutely feeling safe.

And if you're connected with your parents,  if you're connected with your peers, you have that safety net.  But our society doesn't have that anymore. A lot, you know, I would say as much as, as we need it. Yeah, yeah. That was, that was a heavy start to that.  Tell us about your work, actually.  Yeah. So, you know, it's.

I think a lot of what I do,  when I grew up, I grew up in the United States and I grew up in the era where I was outside playing all day.  Kids of all different ages. And I would say I'm not  neurotypical. I repeated kindergarten, so I sat in a separate room and did puzzles.  But being in the swing set during lunch the whole time helped me to regulate.

I had those opportunities to, to regulate my nervous system and help me to feel more grounded, but it's You know, it was challenging for me as a student growing up and but I didn't have that obstacle of retreating into electronics. I had, I was forced to be in social situations and to figure it out and to learn about other people and understand other people and learn about myself. 

And it breaks my heart seeing students now  because that's not the case. Most people go home when the garage door closes and they're in their house and  you know, they're engaging through technology. We're not having these opportunities to interact with one another, to learn about one another, to develop  and even to do the 3D play. 

And so one of my big missions is one, to make sure all those core skills that we need. As humans to develop  are  brought back  are are in our our framework of education of early education of early childhood development and also the parent piece  that parents are given the tools to connect with their Children and the support because it's stressful in today's society mean pressure and stress and such.

An element of our society,  even with kids. So that's the other element. So one is just making sure  the awareness is, is there for people to do things that connect them to themselves, to others. Um, and also with parents to, to find joy in parenting and to connect with their kids, especially the ones who are really challenging because they need us even more to connect and be loving.

But yeah,  there's many realms of what I do. Yeah, there really are. But I would say at the core of it, it is creating a strong foundation for us as human beings, as a parent, as a student, as an educator. , so we can just create a better world because the world is changing.  And the less stressed we are, the more solid we are and grounded we are.

The better equipped we are to make the necessary decisions as we are evolving on on this world and so that comes with many levels of change 100%. , and in terms of school going.  What advice would you have.  So I, I would say. If I had a school and I got to  key activities to start the school with because I feel like that first week, you know, it's like anything, right?

That the first job is the first week of your job. Everyone's meeting people. They're, they're identifying who they want to connect with, who they don't want to connect with. Right? So these kids going back to school,  if I had an ideal situation and I could choose whatever would happen, it would be That first week to really build  relationships and to do activities where people get to know one another, get to know themselves, doing team building activities that are fun, create  an environment that starts with fun, connection, connecting with your teachers in a fun way, academics will come,  you'll have the rest of the week,  or the rest of the year, but that first week, If you could focus on activities that are fun, getting the kids engaged, building their self esteem,  building their understanding of themselves and others, that would be what I would  say would be the number one thing I would do.

And I'm actually on the board of the Welcoming Committee of my school, so I can't help but do something like this because it's so important., and when you, we think,  and this was said to me, like, oh, you know, she, you know, my, for my daughter, that she'd lose the social side of school, school. But actually there isn't a social side to school.

There's very less opportunity. And that you're absolutely right. And, and, and, you know, I've many children that I know if they don't connect with people before those groups form, especially in middle school, they're left out. And you're right. The only time when you go from class to class, there's really no opportunity  to learn about people to understand people in our society.

If we're, if school is equipping  the students to be part of society.  Working with others is a huge part of working in society, so it absolutely should be within the school system to understand other people, to understand different personalities, how to work with different personalities. This absolutely should be built into the school curriculum.

And even like when you talk about working with other people, I don't even see it that far because when you look at young people, you know, especially that  preteen to, , 15, 16. They're questioning their identity. They're not sure of themselves. And at the moment, any, any suggestion I make is like, Oh, that's so awkward.

That's so awkward. You couldn't do that. You couldn't, but that's, again, it's not  that child. That's the stage that they're at. And it, and I, I have a teenager too. I, I have, and I, I agree that  they're like, why won't  you do this? Because, you know, because they do, they, they are shedding kind of things that, that they feel don't belong to them that maybe we have put on them with their personality and trying to figure out who they are.

And, and so you're right. That is that stage. That's why self awareness activities and self esteem activities and confidence activities are so important at this age.  Because this is when they're building that strong foundation. But also I feel the more they are okay with themselves, the more they're okay with other people. 

And, and with my older son, I've really worked on that,  of, understanding, you know, I may be strong in this area,  but guess what? You probably stronger in another area, right? We all have our strengths and we all have our weaknesses. It's one's not better than another. We're just all uniquely different.  And I think the more we can bring that awareness to people, it helps because then you don't feel like you have to be perfect.

You don't have to be this. You don't have to be that. You can. Be who you are, and that's the best version of you, and that's what we want. But you're right, that, that stigma, what are they going to think? What, how can I do this just so to fit in? And it is,  it is very, uh, unique and different time, but you're right.

How can we change that narrative? Yeah. And, and the academics will come, like they will learn what they need to learn. Like when I think about all the things I learned in school,  I don't think 90 percent of that I use  at all. And middle school,  you know, it is interesting if we look at development and human development and bring that into the educational models, it would, it would really change.

, the education models in Finland, I feel do mirror a good bit of human development because they don't even bring in reading and writing until, , age seven. Yeah. They focus on that, , the play and sensory motor piece early.  But, yeah, if we look at the developmental piece, absolutely, like, if those team years, we could absolutely take that time to work on self awareness.

And that's one of the pieces I do. I, my colleague and I, we created a program called Foster Student Success. And the three elements, the first piece is that self awareness, foster an open mindset, and understand, so they can start understanding, what their needs are, who, you know, how they are, who they are in the world.

For  anybody, for adults, it's really hard work to do. Like it's not an easy piece of work to do at all. , even for adults. So for a young person to engage in something like that, they're going to need  support from their, their family and the school system and everyone else. Isn't that right? Personal growth. 

I feel like it will be part of our society's structure in 15 20 years. It'll be a normal piece. Of of how we support development. Um, but it's not yet.  But you're right. It is difficult, but I feel like it doesn't have to be  if it's an anything's difficult when it's not the norm or whatever. It's hard because again, it wasn't something that we would have, um, been pointed out to when we were younger teenagers, you know, personal growth and that kind of thing. It was more grades and getting into a good college. And that was like the, for me anyway. 

And it was for me as well, but the high school I, I remember that I went to one of the things and it's interesting, like you said, you don't remember much of, of school. There was one activity I remember, it was a class we'd take electives and it was fashion arts and we had to create a board and it was where did you see yourself in your 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s. 

And we had to go through magazines and just, Kind of in a vision where we saw ourselves and it was so fun because it was an opportunity for me to explore what do I like, what would I love to do,  and, and of all the things I remember in high school, that's one of the main things that I remember. And it's interesting because it was travel, travel, travel, travel, and that's exactly what I've been doing now.

You did your manifestation. It's a great opportunity to, to.  Learn about myself what I wanted to do, right? And so I think these opportunities to bring learning about oneself and the world around them at the same time  is is key to our education system because if we want strong human beings who are confident, stress free, self reliant,  it comes from an inner strength and foundation. Yeah. And that's amazing piece of work you're doing. It's, it's, I know it's, it's long term. It's not a short term piece. It's not to say we do this and tomorrow the grades are going to be great and there, this is the mental health. It's none of that. This is long term,  work.  It is. It is. And I think the other piece is  Bringing students into the equation and getting their perspective.

I was just two weeks in Estonia and I was part of  a talk about education models. And one of the students shared their piece and when the student has, they have some great ideas for how we can improve, how we can support them, you know, it's bringing their voices to the table to,  to see how we can help.

And they actually have some pretty good ideas. If it was me as a student being asked how we can make school better back in the 80s, I would have said, let's not go to school, right? But these kids actually have some really good ideas of how to structure things differently. It's more engaging for them.

They, there's, they're very, yeah, it's giving them the opportunity to talk of how we can improve schools is another thing I would love to see. And I do remember the, the, the subjects that I did well in were, were teachers that I liked and the teachers that liked me,,  and that, that again, it going back to that relationship and social connection piece, that is so valuable. 

And you're right. It's also bringing that awareness to the teachers to understand their perspective, whatever their perspective to the student and how they see the student is how the student is going to see themselves. Yeah. Yeah. And, and we, and we mustn't forget that teachers, parents, therapists are people too.

And we have our on days and off days. And sometimes when I think about some of my sessions and I was like, okay, I really wasn't there for some reason, maybe I was sick, something or the other, but  we do have them.  We do. And I think that is too, is just understanding we're all human, doing our best.  And I really do feel like that.

And some students when they struggle or they're having a hard time and they do something, you know, they would do their best if they could. And how can we look at all students and see,  strength based, pointing out their strengths, giving them more confidence. Those challenges they have, point out the strengths in that scenario and then honing on that so they can feel more confident.

And I've seen great changes when you take that approach.

So I, I do feel that way that all of us, all of us,  we're in the moment, we do our best with what we have. And if we could do better, we would do better. I really. feel that way and some of us just don't have the tools. I was kayaking on Saturday  and we were going down this river and I've been kayaking before.

I know the tools and strategies for when the current takes you this way, just easy. All you do is just turn the paddle and just guide it  super easy. But I know the tools, I know the tricks.  I was watching people who did not know the tools and tricks who were spinning around,  going backwards,  getting carried away in the river  with the current. 

And so,  we have to, they would do better if they knew better, right? You know, it's the same thing with our students.  We give them the tools, we give them the, the, equipped with the strategies and the knowledge to do better, they'll do better.  Yeah. Yeah, so there is hope. Like, I think, I think when you look at the options now compared to even 10 years ago, the options of homeschooling, the options of different types of curriculum, there is much more,  I don't want to say flexibility, but there's, there's more options. 

There are, and I do see, um, there was, uh, a LifeLearn, uh, model school that I, I spoke with two weeks ago, and their very hands on approach of learning and human development, and I loved their model, and I'd like to see more of that come back into our schools, more of the actual creating, building, creativity, and more. 

Thank you.  Learning through working and, and teaching, because I think lecturing is 5 percent of retention when you're in a lecture. But when you're engaged in the activity and doing it, it's much higher. And I think when you teach it, it's even higher. So knowing this, if we can create those models to where we are learning, we're engaging and then students are teaching other students how to do it.

It just it's, it's. We need to start looking at  better ways  to support our students and our educators because they're getting, they're just as stressed and frustrated with the system as well.  I mean, it's, it's not just our students and,  and, and teacher wellbeing is a huge thing. So, you know, we are, there, there is a lot more talk about wellbeing in schools.

It's just, we have to do it the right way.  Yes, and integrate it more into the schools to where people are feeling  that they belong  in the school and it's not they have to go. Yeah, but they want to go because I think for me, I love learning. I'm a life. I'm one of those people. I am constantly learning  because that's what life teaches us every experience is a learning.

And it's sad because our kids think learning just sucks. Is it something that happens in school and then they don't even like learning because it's from a book and they have to just  Remember all these things and then regurgitate their knowledge like that's not what learning is and and I I really wish we would change things to  to create that learning model to show that learning is fun and it's just part of being a human being learning about ourselves about the world about us. 

If we can change that narrative around learning, that would be a great.  Yeah. And, and being open and being open to different types of learning that you're learning from another person. You're learning from doing. There's lots of learning. So, coming back to your question of, of going back to school  and, and, and preparing our kids and how do we, you know, one of the things that I have found is.

Number one, putting enough sleep that week before and changing because it comes down to  if you are  Have that energy.  You're going to be more resilient to what you're facing and the stress of the new school, right? So, so preparing the body so it can handle  that transition back into school with all the people and all the noise and all the environment and the activity.

It's, it's, it's a very different,  different scenario that your body's going through. So one is that piece. , and, and kids. look at life sometimes from our lens. And so my family, we've moved eight times, eight different schools were part of foreign service. And when we go to a new country, we start by what adventure we're gonna have it.

Oh, what a great school. And look at how cool this is about the school in this, right? So I point out all the positive things to create that positive narrative. That they can go by and set the stage.  They may have a lot of things coming at them, but if I can set the stage to be as positive as possible, but also acknowledging the challenges, that's another thing we can do. 

Yeah, those are really good. The two powerful things, I think, um,  I just even being reflective, like I don't think I do enough of, oh, look what an opportunity you're going to have with this or that or the other. It's like, have you got your books? Have we got your uniforms? Have you got this? And it's the practical mom brain kicks in and you don't talk about all the other Non-tangible,  kind of things that's going on.

Yeah. 'cause the kids don't care whether they have the books or the uniform or the bag. And, you know,  , and I'll say one thing that I, I, I teach a lot of my clients that I work with, the young children, you know, when we're talking about social connections, everyone, you know, 'cause it's the icebreakers, right?

That's so hard to like, start up a conversation with someone, for anyone. And so I always share my, my number one thing is. When you see someone,  give them a compliment. Oh, I like your shoes. I like your bag.  That is the best way to open up a connection because everyone likes to feel good.  And when you notice something about someone and point that out and make them feel good, that is a perfect start to further conversation or a connection.

And it may go further. It may not, but it's a perfect. Entryway.  Lovely.  Thank you. You're welcome.   Any books, uh, you recommend or any resource that you may recommend. 

So I met the author of this book three weeks ago.   The screen time solution by,  by Emily  Sheridan. We have to regain that, that hold of what we've lost in our society of interaction, of play, of foundation. Because, I mean, autism's not going away. And a big piece of autism is that lack of sensory development early on. And lack of sensory development comes from lack of exposure, and lack of movement, and lack of, And if you went back to where sensory integration started, and I think this is a whole other series just on sensory and we'll do that,  um, with Jean Ayres and her,  what an amazing woman for her time.

And her,  was to give children the opportunity to do with the just right kind of challenge like that. This is what, in the seventies? Yeah, in the 70s. Well, she started it was working with kids with learning disabilities and realizing that when she brought in the sensory  stimulating modulating activities that it helped them with learning.

So that's how she like that's how it evolved. And what I just gave a presentation to a group out of Pakistan , about early child development.  And, and it was interesting because they were like, we never saw it that way. We've never,  we never thought of it that way. Cause everyone's  because we're, this was in Asia. Right? And they're like, cognitive, do things, think. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, none of that's going to happen unless this is a solid foundation, I'll tell you right now.

And they're like, oh, like, so I was really trying to  bring that awareness of if you're not stimulating these senses, which are the gateway to learning, like all your information, guess what guys? It comes through your senses. That's it. There's no disputing that. It's like everything.  And for people who say, oh, there's not enough research, I was like, well, how else is our body getting any information, really?

I mean, what kind of research do you need to know that you see things, hear things, smell things, and feel it in your body? I mean, come on.  Well, and it was interesting because the end of that conversation, Someone had joined, I didn't realize she, I did work with her in Northern Macedonia. I helped teach a lot of her clinicians and she created a multidisciplinary center  based on  the principles that I was sharing with the OT and the sensory. 

And she even said, she's like, we've seen the huge jump. They work with kids who are sensory deprived, who didn't have that movement, who didn't have the opportunity. And they said, the acceleration, once we give them the opportunity. An environment to stimulate and, and create those neural connections, the difference afterwards.

I mean, you can't, you can't dispute the nervous system. If you don't stimulate something, it's not going to develop.  Or it's going to find  another way to develop, but that mightn't be adaptive or, um,  what's the other word? Even acceptable, because it's going to look for it in another way. Yes. And our bodies are great, right?

We're humans. We adapt. Absolutely. And that's what we're doing.  Are we adapting? And is it  functional? Is it the best way? I mean, you can't dispute the lack of focusing, the minimal attention span, all of this. Like, this is why we need more opportunities to  just not use the brain where it's just information coming in.

 Sensory development is a part of development, period. Period, period, period.