How to Build an Authentic Personal Brand That Connects with Your Ideal Clients

Jack Durkin and James Humphries-Stone delve into personal branding in estate agency. They reveal why it's crucial for growth, particularly for self-employed agents or those running their own businesses.

Why Personal Brand Matters

• Builds trust and familiarity with clients.
• Clients often feel they know you from consistent branding.
• Examples like Elon Musk highlight personal brand impact.

Relating to Clients

• Authenticity fosters deeper connections.
• Personal stories strengthen your brand.
• It’s about being genuine, not just polished.

Credibility and Community

• Known personal brands bring added credibility.
• The Avenue’s agents excel by merging personal and agency branding.
• A balanced approach attracts ideal clients.

Should You Share Personal Details?

• Share only what aligns with your comfort level.
• Authenticity builds trust.
• Being genuine can elevate your brand.

From Stiff to Genuine

• Embracing authenticity can boost confidence and fees.
• Being relatable can be as simple as matching clients’ styles.

Overcoming Video Fears

• Practice to beat fear: talk to the camera as if it’s a client.
• Livestreams make things feel more natural and unscripted.

Networking and Engagement

• Go beyond social media; engage locally.
• Sponsor events and partner with businesses.
• Real-life connections can fuel your brand’s growth.

Stand for Something

• Be bold about your values.
• Differentiating yourself attracts the right clients.
• Jack and James emphasize taking a strong stand.

Final Thoughts

• Consistency is key in personal branding.
• Growth comes from embracing discomfort.
• Jack and James share how this strategy transformed their business.

Thinking of building your brand? Reach out to Jack and James—they’re ready to share insights.

Listen, learn, and elevate your brand.

Engage With Us
Have questions or topics you'd like us to cover in future episodes? Send us your thoughts and stay engaged with the Elite Agent Masterclass for more expert insights on transforming your career.

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Transcript

So welcome to another episode of the Elite Agent Masterclass. Today myself and Mr Jack Durkin are going to be diving deep into personal brand. Now that phrase personal brand seemingly gives some people in the industry a bit of the ick. Quite honestly I don't know for why. I think it's important to build a personal brand in today's world of estate agency to connect with your community and so on and so forth. So Jack and I are going to unpack what it takes, what the do's and the don'ts are, and some of the things that you might want to consider if you're looking at building a self-employed or even a mainstream estate agency brand, but building it around your personal brand as well. So where are we going to start, Jack? I think we should probably start with the importance of it and I suppose it's going to be good to relate back to us, our agents as well across the business that have all built some really great personal brands alongside the agency brand as well, but they've all put their own spin on things and it's quite interesting to see the different clientele that people attract because you attract the people that you're most similar to or that are aligned with what you're looking to do. question, Matt. Why is it so important, James? Why have we seen it be so important for our agents across the business and how does it help them grow and scale their businesses? Yeah, great place to start. I think from a personal point of view, personal brand, what has it meant to me? I think for me, it's people then connecting a certain standard to you. And so I When I put that into perspective, I've had many an occasion where I've gone on an appointment and because of the amount of content and because of the amount of times we put ourselves at the forefront of our marketing. I'm going on appointments and people are opening the front door and they're like, I feel like I know you because I've seen you so much on whether it be social media, whatever, or they've driven past a board and seen my face on it. And so I think the power of personal brand now is that you only have to look at, say, social media, Instagram, big names like Elon Musk is a really, really good example. Elon Musk has a much larger following on all social media platforms than Tesla. which tells a particular story. And you only have to look at a number of different individuals who are big business owners, who entrepreneurs, whatever. They are bigger in terms of personally than the brands that they own. And I think tie that in with the fact that now, you know, eighty five percent of the British public are using some form of social media. I mean, your audience is huge. And so I've taken the personal brand conversation towards social media, but it does then feed through having faces on boards and so on. So for me, I feel like it's elevated our brand because of the fact that our faces are directly connected. And there's then a level of accountability attached to not hiding behind the brand, but blending brand with personal. How about you? A hundred percent. I totally agree. I think that's one of the reasons we looked at building the avenue the way that we did. I think the brand itself can give people the credibility. So you mentioned Elon Musk. You've got Richard Branson as well. Yep. Richard Branson wouldn't have the credibility he has. He's got without what he's built through Virgin and the brands that he's created, the businesses that he's created. But they still, people want to connect with the actual person. So without a lot of our agents, and there's a couple that spring to mind quite quickly, a lot of our agents, we're getting phone calls through the Avenue line or we're getting emails come through asking for the agent specifically. They want to deal with this agent specifically because they've been recommended across a Facebook group or across social media, and there's ten, twenty people that have referred to this particular agent and even speak to this particular agent. So I think it's a big importance. And I think having a blend of both, there's agencies out there and businesses out there that just focus really heavily on the personal brand itself. But I do think you need the credibility of the brand behind it. But then you're allowed then to be able to put your own spin on things and create your own touch to things. Let people into your own life a little bit more as well. So I think that's a big question. How do you feel about what you can share? How much you want to share personally? Should you keep it very professional or should you be open to sharing personal stuff as well? Because I think there's a question mark around it and I suppose maybe a line somewhere there. Yeah, I think that's a really good question. So I think the word that immediately sprung to mind when you were talking was authenticity, because you can't portray yourself in a way on social media, for example, which is where we're most exposed, right? You can't portray yourself in one way and then show up in another way. And so this year marks my twentieth year in the industry. And since we've launched The Avenue, I feel like for the first time, I have been able to be my true authentic self because I'm showing up in a very specific way on social media and people are then seeing that. So I can't then turn up and be a different way when I meet people. And it's liberating. I'll be totally honest. It's liberating because I'm not wearing a mask. I am myself. And I feel that has to then be a direct correlation between I feel more ease with higher net worth clients I feel more at ease with commanding higher fees and I feel that that becomes that comes from the reassurance that people already seemingly know me before I'm visiting them and so I can just show up as me I don't hide behind you know I'll be honest back in the day when I before pre the avenue it was always really important for me to wear a suit I loved a free piece But actually, if I reflect back on that, the reason I wore the three-piece, it was like a suit of armor. It was like, this is my protective gear that I can show up and they're going to look at me as authoritative because I'm wearing my three-piece and I look sharp with my eye in the perfect knot. And the reality is, like, that wasn't relatable. They were relating to me as a person, so I still won, but they... I'm turning up and meeting people now, but I'm dressed with a jumper on and a gilet and a t-shirt. And most people I'm meeting are dressed very similarly to me. And so it's immediately relatable. That's just one point of the personal brand piece. Do you think that comes down to the businesses that you were a part of before? Do you think that's part of that? Because I felt very similar having worked in different businesses before. Before we launched the avenue, I was very hesitant on what to do with the personal running side. For example, I mean, we had this conversation, me and Laura the other day. Laura's started to build her own personal business. and we had a conversation as to whether you should keep your personal socials and turn them into your business socials or have a completely separate. And when we first launched, I kept mine separately. But it was because of the businesses that I'd worked for before, I feel, whereby I had to keep work life and personal life very, very separate, I believed. And I suppose it was a question mark for myself, really. I felt as though if I shared too much about my personal life, is that going to detract certain clients? But now we're in a completely different headspace. My thought process then is completely different to the thought process now. Looking at when we first launched, I'd always question how much I can show my personal life. Is that going to put certain people off? Is it going to look unprofessional if I show elements of my personal life? But now I'm keen to show as much as I can because it attracts the types of clients that we want. We were discussing the types of clients it would have attracted and wouldn't have attracted showing the personal stuff. the ones that we really wanted to attract some of our best clients would have really bought into the personal stuff if I would have shared more of it at the start. So it's really interesting to see the change. And that took me quite a while to transition and become more comfortable sharing a lot more personal stuff. but it really does make a big difference as to the clients that you attract. And it ends up attracting the right clients that you enjoy working with, that have got similar interests, similar hobbies to you. And it's just a much more enjoyable experience, I find, working with the clients that you can really connect with. And it does potentially detract the ones that you're not going to want to work with or that aren't a right fit for you. So I think showing as much of the personal brand element is really important but I think for someone starting out it can be a big question mark at the start because it certainly was for me Yeah, I agree. And I think for a lot of people, especially if we're talking about this from a self-employed brokerage style model where you've got more autonomy, I would say that if that's anyone that's listening in that is in a world where they're looking at transitioning away from, say, corporate or where it is a bit stuffy, where it's like you have to wear a certain color of shirt to work and you always have to be clean shaven and all this type of, in my opinion, BS. Be at ease with the fact that actually none of that matters. It's irrelevant. The client does not care whether you're clean shaven or not. They care for what you can do for them, the value you can give them. And if you're, you know, yeah, there's a line. There is a line. But I think personally, the way I look at it now is you've got to make an informed decision. I mean, if you live a particularly lavish lifestyle where you're partying hard all the time, that might not reflect well from a client perspective. If all they see is Monday through Sunday, you're always living the high life and they're like, okay, so where's this person got time to serve me? They're always out to the early hours of the morning. So, you know, they're burning it at both ends. Do you know what I mean? So I think there's a balance, but I think that connects with, And if I remember this rightly, I'm pretty sure it's a Ryan Serhant thing. And his is like, you're a real estate agent and. So we're an estate agent and. And so for me, I'm an estate agent and a family man. So I don't mind. And again, this is the line that some people have to be comfortable with. I'm comfortable with me as a family, Hayley and the kids. We're comfortable with the idea that the kids will be seen on social media. because they're going to grow up in a world where social media is going to dominate. And so we're comfortable with it. So they do feature in our outbound content. And it doesn't then surprise me that when I meet with clients who have either got children or grandchildren, that they're the topics that come up. Oh, you know, how's Stanley? I'm like, I have to have a little moment where I'm like, Do you know who Stanley is? And I'm like, of course, because you've seen me on social media. But it's then it's relatable. And so rather than that age old thing, you know, that the really, really old school estate agency training where it's like when you first arrive, make sure you look for things that you can find that you've got in common with the client. It's the other way around. They've got something in common with you when you arrive. Yeah. Do you feel like they do you feel as though when they ask those sorts of questions, you feel like you already know them? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's like there's this immediate connection. the word probably trust there's this immediate connection with the client so there's none of this uh fabricated rapport building process it's there's already that common ground and you've not had to be the one that's found it so it then doesn't feel like you're selling yourself to the client because they're the ones saying oh I saw the post you put out the other day where you took the kids to the farm or I see the post you put out the other day about such and such how was that and it's always personal and occasionally it might connect back to The properties were selling. I met with a client yesterday who I sold a house to two and a half years ago. And she said, you know, I've been following you since you sold me the house and your kids are growing up so fast and all this sort of stuff. And for me, I'm walking into that appointment and it's like this. This is someone who's going to work with me. This person is not going anywhere else. We're so connected. You've already built that element of trust, haven't you? There's so much. Well, we could probably deep down some of the things. We'll give some of the viewers, listeners an idea in terms of what they can do from a personal branding point. So as an agent, a self employed employee, whatever that may be, obviously with employed staff, there is going to be certain limitations in terms of what they can do from a personal branding element. But if you, well, what have we done or what have our agents done or what are we doing to create that personal brand? What are some of the things that have helped us get front and center and get our faces, get ourselves recognized in front of our customers? Yes, I think we've talked social media a fair bit. So I think that then becomes a given showing up as you. So don't hide behind a brand. Don't hide behind beautiful houses all the time. Get your face in front of these things. So to make sure that people are connecting with you. I think then that feeds through every area then of your business. So, you know, don't be shy of having your face on a board. In my opinion, that should be almost a given. Get your face on the board. Your face is there everywhere all the time. And people are like, oh, I recognize you. And conversations as well, doesn't it? So many people that you're the agent has the face on the board. And there are other agents that are doing it, but not not everyone. Very well. More of the minority than the majority are doing it. So. it generates and starts conversations it started a conversation for us with a postman the other day where the postman had spotted our boards and we ended up chatting to him um and yet to start talking about the business and what we're doing and it was just a it just sparked conversation and that's the point it's a conversation starter so it becomes almost like an uh like an inadvertent twenty four seven networking tool um you know if you go to the gym I know you've said it before you've gone to the gym and there's people that have kind of gone you're an estate agent All of a sudden there's a conversation. They're like, oh, cool. You know, what's your thoughts on this? I'm considering moving and blah, blah, blah. You know, I've had it where we've been food shopping and we bumped into someone in the supermarket and they're staring at you. And so you speak and you say, hi. And they say, I'm so sorry to be staring. I recognize you. And then you say, I'm an estate agent. You might have seen some of my stuff on social media or whatever. Ah, yes, I recognize you. That's why I recognize you. And then having the branded gear, you know, people then tie the two together. I think everything should then have your face on, your direct mail campaigns, if you're doing direct mail, your social media, your boards. And it's a conversation starter absolutely everywhere. Yeah, I think touching on the network that you just mentioned as well, if you can get your face in front of those people across all your socials. But also I've noticed like going to the gym, having conversations in the gym as well, starting to connect in the gym, people start to recognise the boards. I spoke to a guy the other day, And exactly the same thing happened. He looked across and I could see he was looking and he ended up popping over and we had a chat. And at first he couldn't work out where he'd see me. But he was actually considering looking at selling his house. And he said, look, I've never put the two and two together, but I've definitely seen your boards. But I hadn't when I saw you, I saw you the other day in the gym. I hadn't actually connected the dots. But now you come to mention it. I probably only recognised the boards because we are actually thinking of selling. He said we wouldn't have really been looking out for a set of boards otherwise. So it was just, I suppose, he saw the board at the right time. We ended up seeing one another in the gym. I think there's also being able to get your personal branding elements across socials, but also into local groups as well. And connect for some of our agents eminence great example she sings and shouts and dances about what she does um and from a personal branding social media point of view she does a great job but even better through her network so when she goes and plays at the local football team or she um her boys are at the local clubs they've all got they're all sponsored by the avenue and emma's known across the whole of bowl miss at michael's football club that she's the estate agent there Yeah, everyone knows her as the estate agent. In her WhatsApp group with all the moms from school, everyone knows her as the estate agent. So building it from a networking point of view as well, I think is really, really powerful. Totally, totally agree. And it's one of those that I think a lot of people are fearful. And so for anyone listening in that is really keen on exploring the world of, say, self-employed estate, or really keen on everything we've said, I get it. I get why it works so well, but I'm absolutely terrified to put my face on camera. I think the only piece of advice I can give, and maybe you're better... giving your story on this jack than me giving my opinion but I'll share it very quickly my view on it anyone that judges you is one of two things like you said yourself didn't you when we first launched a few of your mates ribbed you about it and this and that but the reality is they're cheering you on they're just taking the mitt because you're lads right um but anyone that then jibes you in a in a negative way to be quite honest they're entitled to their opinion like let them have it are they people that you'd want to be friends with are they people that you'd want to do business with if Or are they anyone that you'd even want to associate with? If it's no to the freak, then why do you care what they think? Literally, why do you care? And I don't know whether this has come with age. I don't know whether it's come with experience. I don't know whether it's come with, I don't know. But for me, if you don't like what I've got to say, or you don't like the look of me, or you don't like my message, that's cool. And that ties into the piece that I wanted to share on that, is that there's no point building a personal brand and then being vanilla. You need to stand for something. You need to be prepared to go against the grain. So for us, I will call it out time and time and time and time again. Mainstream, corporate estate agency, and unfortunately for a lot of the independents now, stop being so cheap. Raise the bar. Because if you can raise the bar on what you get paid, then it means you can deliver a better service. I stand for that. And I'll happily fight the corner of that. I also stand for beautiful marketing. I cannot... abide crappy marketing on behalf of a client. So I'll also stand for that and I'll call it out. And so I'm happy to have a voice on that. I also think that estate agents should be better supported generally, whether it's employed or self-employed, they should get more support from the brokerage or the employer that they're with, which involves more money, which involves better support and training and marketing. I am very vocal about that. So I think anyone that wants to build a personal brand, move away from being vanilla. Find what it is that you stand for and stand for it. Yeah, I think you have got to make a difference, haven't you? Stand out, because a lot of people are starting to get on social media now, other businesses as well as that agency. So you've got to do something a little bit different, something controversial sometimes as well to get yourself known, to get the exposure that you're looking to gain and stay true to your word. Coming back, I suppose, to when we first launched, and I think it would be good to share, I suppose, my experience, because ultimately... It can be quite nervy, recording your first video, getting your face on board, essentially putting yourself out there. It can be quite uncomfortable. And I found that at the very start, it was a challenge. when we first launched I remember there's a couple of occasions we I mean the first take on we did I remember that um very very well about fifty six takes I think it took until we actually now the now the final one and it still wasn't good enough you might in my opinion offer um to my standards however I think sometimes you just got to put it out there and then you move on to the next one. There's a lot of stuff that I've recorded. Well, majority of the stuff that I record that I don't watch back because I'm like, right, if I watch it back, I'm going to pick it apart. So I'm just going to record it, make sure I'm happy with it. If I have to record a couple of times, that's fine. But once I've got it, get it edited, get it posted and just share it and be at peace with it. I think you can overthink things and try and perfect things too much. And then you don't end up actually delivering anything at all, which has the completely opposite effect. There was also an occasion as well. And I think you'll remember this. So we're big advocates for video marketing and really showcasing your homes and presenter-led videos. And we did a lot of that at the start, although it took us a while to really start to get into the swing of it. But I had a client that didn't want the presenter-led stuff on the video. And I was like, hmm, okay. maybe the presenter-led thing isn't what people actually want. Maybe it's just what we think we want. So I stopped doing it for a little while, stopped doing it for a couple of weeks. And there was a noticeable difference in terms of the organic lead generation that I saw. So we picked it back up and it was just that one client. There's only one client and he just wasn't keen on the idea, which is absolutely fine. But that planted a seeded out in my head which which he shouldn't have done um so I think sometimes you can get into your own head about it a little bit um and as soon as that change I think the presenter videos the run around tours that we're doing now the faces on the boards the personal branding element that we've created has been a huge huge part of the success and um the growth that we've seen at the avenue in such a short space of time and I'm sure you'll probably agree I totally agree. And I think the thing you've touched on a fair bit in what you shared there is video. And I think that that would be my next piece of advice to anyone listening in is so you might they might be thinking to themselves. Great. So I can get away with putting my face on the board. I can put my face on a few posts on social media. And that's me building a personal brand. I'm afraid not. We live now in an era where every social media platform is optimizing for video, every platform, even LinkedIn. Now, if you go through LinkedIn, so much more video content is being promoted. So you've got to get comfortable with the idea that you've got to put your face on camera. Now, a lot of people are absolutely petrified of the idea of going on camera. Here's my advice to those people. I actually gave this advice to someone the other day who asked me for a steer on how to get used to going on camera. And my advice was just simply pick up your phone and as often as you can throughout the course of the day, just hit record and talk to your phone about something. It doesn't even matter what it is, but just get used to the idea of pointing the camera in your face and talking to it. But imagine you're talking to a person. So when you're building out your personal brand, when you're building out the vision for what your business is going to become, and we do this obviously with our partners, who is your target audience? Who are you speaking to? Who is your client? And think about giving that ideal client avatar almost. Give them a name. Who are they? And then talk to them through the camera. And so then it becomes more one-to-one rather than feeling like I've got to be able to create content that appeals to the masses. But the biggest and best piece of advice I could give Speak into your phone, your camera, as much as possible as practice. Whether you do anything with that content is irrelevant. It's just getting used to the idea of talking to a camera lens. And for me, that certainly helped me in the early stages of when we did what we've done. I think the other thing that can really help with refining your comfort on video, and I don't know if you feel the same, Jack, but whenever I've done live videos, I've for some reason found them so much easier than something that's pre-rehearsed. Just because you have no choice, it's live. So even if you do drop your words or throw too many ums in or whatever else, you've got no choice. You've got to keep going. Yeah, I suppose it's a lot more natural, isn't it? I haven't done a lot of live, so I can't really comment or share my experience on that. But I could imagine it has to be a lot more natural, doesn't it? I think that's a real importance as well. It's just being natural. And you mentioned it earlier, being your true authentic self, because... don't want to come across as wooden you don't want to come across as speaking in a different way or act in a different way essentially you're going to be sharing with people and there's going to be a lot of people that know you that so it's really important to just be yourself and I think that resonates with people a lot more when they can see who someone truly is who they are and can connect with them quite well um if you're just a genuine you know normal person there's you know there's no There's no need to be overly professional and you still want, you know, your personal elements and profile to come out as well. So, and that's really key. It's just, yeah, being that natural. A hundred percent. And I think coming back a step, I briefly touched on it. It's the whole, you're an estate agent and, so for me, estate agent and family man, for you, estate agent and health and fitness fanatic. I think it's, the thing is, I'm saying that off the back of seeing your content. I know you go for early morning runs. I know you go to the gym. I know you eat well. And obviously you and I run the business together, but we are an hour apart in distance. So we don't spend every day together, but I know more often than not, I know what you're up to because of your social media, especially first thing in the morning. And this is the point, you know, it might be that you are an estate agent and a dog lover, you know, so, you know, like Holly with Bruno or Emma with Mac and, All of these things, whether it be family, whether it be that you're a sports person and, you know, you play football at the weekends and you share a little bit of the behind scenes on that, all of it becomes in some way relatable to the right people. It could be... foodie and love going out for nice to rice restaurants and also that's a great way as well of connecting with other businesses and collaborating with other businesses and sharing the other businesses and restaurants or places you go to as well so I think there's a great way of connecting to other networks through the personal branding element which I mean we've done a lot haven't we of um connecting with businesses and doing um giveaways or doing um showcasing another local business in the area, which has really helped build profiles and networks as well. So that's another great way of being able to grow your business and your brand. A hundred percent agree. I think in the early stages as well of someone launching a self-employed business, it would be very valuable for them in the process of building personal brand to connect with other businesses in their community who are aligned with them on values. and do some promo work you know maybe if it is a coffee shop go and have a coffee and a bite to eat and you know promote that and and talk to the staff and see if you can do some footage and take a photo with them and tag them in your content because then it will expose you to their audience and if they are aligned in terms of the type of business that they are then they'll have the type of clients that you want to attract so there's there's all this that goes with it as well um so yeah for me There's so much upside. The only downside that I think people need to consider is if you're going to build a personal brand, be authentic, because if you're not, you'll become unstuck quite quickly. yeah I think connecting back as I had a conversation with one of our agents uh yesterday and before we click record I was trying to recall who it was but I've just it's just clicked with me um so I had a conversation with them and they were looking at building a new um letter campaign out and they want to make it quite personal and so their family used to run quite a successful business in their area um an accountancy business and it's been going for years and years and years and it's got their family name in it so he's like I'm not sure whether I should add that into the letter or not the fact that you know my family have had a business in the area because people will probably recognize it but I'm not sure if I should put it in there I'm like mate that is I should definitely put it in there one hundred percent yeah people can connect with it people can see that you know you that you've been involved with the family business previously and now you want to create a family business or your own business yourself in the same area so it's yeah great connection there and he's gone gone ahead and decided to put that in the letter and he said that campaign's going out later um either end of this week or early part of next week so I'm sure you'll see some good success from that I like that. I like that. I think, yeah. And again, I guess that comes back to then the content piece, doesn't it? The different mediums of content, the more you can connect. We've got an agent obviously joining us in the area that he's in, born, raised, several generations of his family, similar to the agent you're referring to. Several generations of his family have lived, grown up and owned businesses within that community that he's going to be operating in. And he said the same to me. What do you think there? Should I tie it back to that? You know, my surname is quite a well-known one because of my family history in the village and what have you. If you don't, you're a madman. You've got such deep rooted connection to the area that for me, that's an absolute no brainer. Yeah, a hundred percent. So yeah, I think there's huge upside to personal brand. I think for anyone out there that I suppose have any questions, I think there won't necessarily be many questions. I think it would be probably more fear of doing it. So for anyone out there, that kind of has that, I hear what they're saying, I subscribe to it, I buy into it, I believe it to be true, because look, you probably wouldn't be listening to this podcast if you weren't familiar with who Jack and I were before this. I'm very much doubt that you've come into contact with the Elite Agent Masterclass because of the brand, it's probably by virtue of mine and Jack's outreach, I suppose. So we are testament to the fact that personal brand building does have an effect, So anyone that has the fear factor, I'd say reach out to me or Jack, like me and Jack probably approached it from different places at times. But both ended up at the same place where we're like, if I was starting again, the first thing I would do is go all out on building my personal brand. Yeah, a hundred percent. And I still very much remember those early days and the questions I had in my head, the fear I had around it, the uncomfort that I felt. So for anyone listening that wants to reach out and have a conversation, I'm more than happy to share my story, my feelings, my experiences. They're probably very similar to what you might be going through or considering going through very soon. And I'm sure we can give you some advice around what helped us overcome that. And part of the piece of advice for me is if something makes you feel uncomfortable, it means you're progressing. It means that if you sit in your comfort zone and you always feel comfortable, you're not going to grow. And if you're happy with not growing, cool. But if you are wanting to grow, you are wanting to progress, then move towards the fear. I promise you no one's going to die and you'll come out of the other side of it. So embrace it, practice. And for the record, I reckon between me and Jack in the last three and a half years, we've probably now been in front of camera thousands of times and we both still cock it up more often than not. So it never gets completely comfortable and, just be at ease with the fact that it bloody well works. There's good days and bad days, even after doing so many. I think on a personal branding front, there's so much more that could probably be uncovered, but we've probably shed a light on a lot there. And I think, as I said just now, move towards it, like get your face in front of camera. If you're not comfortable with broadcasting those pieces of video footage, just simply do it almost like a daily journal type thing just to get used to the idea. And it definitely helps. So any questions you have got around the building of a personal brand or any, I guess any support or any advice you'd want around it on how to practice it or whatever else, then reach out to one of us and we're happy to help. Jack, I enjoyed that one. Yeah, I think it's going to be, well, interesting to anyone out there that is going to go ahead and start building their personal brand. Watch the difference and it's going to make your business because for us, it's been an absolute game changer. Love that. Until next time, that is the Elite Agent Masterclass. We look forward to sharing more insights with you soon.