The Autonomy Journals
The Autonomy Journals showcase leading voices, sharing insights, learnings, lessons and perhaps some confessions from the Autonomy Journey in transport and mobility.
SAMS, a private, non-profit innovation cluster for sustainable, autonomous mobility solutions, host the podcast.
The Autonomy Journals
Embracing Autonomy in Norway's Transport: Insights from Siri Vasshaug from Statens Vegvesen - NPRA
Step into the future of transportation with Siri Vassau from the Norwegian Public Roads Administration as we uncover the ambitious blueprint shaping Norway's journey toward autonomous vehicles. Discover how this innovative national strategy, led by Siri, is not only paving the way for road transport but also setting the stage for integrating air and sea travel. Our discussion sheds light on the thoughtful balance needed between technological advancements and societal needs, highlighting efforts to enhance mobility for all, including individuals with impairments while addressing urban-rural dynamics and exploring the role of shared mobility. Join us as we unveil the collaborative spirit that drives this forward-thinking strategy, designed to reduce car dependency and incorporate public transport, private mobility, logistics, goods transport, and emergency services.
As our conversation deepens, we tackle the formidable challenges and responsibilities that come with the rise of autonomous transport. We confront the vulnerabilities of increased digitalization, such as centralized control and the potential impact of international tensions on vehicle operations. With a critical eye, we compare road safety benchmarks across Norway, the US, and China, while stressing the importance of human adaptability and the infrastructural developments required for a seamless transition to autonomy. Engage with us and Siri as we explore how Norway prepares its roads and sets high safety standards in collaboration with vehicle manufacturers, ensuring that the promise of autonomous transport is realized responsibly and safely.
The Autonomy Journals showcase leading voices, sharing insights, learnings, lessons and perhaps some confessions from the Autonomy Journey in transport and mobility.
Subscribe to the Autonomy Journals and join us next time as we continue exploring how Norway leads the way in autonomous mobility solutions. Because in Norway, we do it.
SAMS is a private, non-profit innovation cluster for sustainable, autonomous mobility solutions and the host of the podcast.
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Arild:Hello and welcome to the Autonomy Journals podcast brought to you by SAMS, the Norwegian Innovation Cluster for Autonomous Mobility and Transport Systems. Autonomy In Norway we do it. We are your hosts, Eja and Arild.
Eja:I'm leading the Norwegian Innovation Cluster for Sustainable Autonomous Mobility Systems.
Arild:And I'm the founder of a small company in the mobility space, Kobla.
Eja:The Autonomy Journals is aimed at inviting you into the autonomous universe of new ideas, innovation, great progress and feedback.
Arild:Translating visions and complexities. One interesting conversation at a time, and we'll offer links and resources to autonomy sites and news in the credits. Hello and welcome to the Autonomy Journals. My name is Arild Tjomsland. I'd like to welcome my guest, Siri Vassauh, from the Norwegian Public Roads Administration.
Siri:Thank you, it's nice to be here.
Arild:It's nice to have you. Earlier this year, Norwegian Public Roads Administration released its National Strategy for Automated Transport. Tell me about your involvement in this process.
Siri:The process was led by us at the Norwegian Public Roads Administration. I was the project leader, but it consisted of many different actors over the course of a year.
Arild:Could you tell me a little bit about the scope of this document over?
Siri:I have to admit that we started out hoping that this would be like a step-by-step guide to how to implement automated transport. It became quite obvious early on that we lacked direction for the work in Norway, and this shouldn't have come as a surprise, because there are several people who have commented on this. We've had research papers calling for a strategy. We've had other actors saying we need a common path. In order to be able to take the precise and right steps, we needed to know the direction first, or else we would be just going around in circles.
Siri:And the strategy and the proposal has a lot wider scope than we initially thought it would have. But it's designed to set a course for how we work with automated transport in Norway. This is mainly road transport that we talk about. I think in the future we should make a strategy that also includes other modes air and sea because some of the technology and some of the legislative work will be similar, so that will be important. But it ends up with three principles of how to work with automated transport in Norway and we have a scope of 2050. So we're trying to look ahead, but not too far ahead, Finding somewhere in between the Jefferson and the flying cars, and just you know what needs to be done in the next five years.
Arild:It's super exciting stuff for anyone interested in autonomy. Of course, You're talking about 2050, so we're future planning here. I know you from before CD, as you know, of course, and I wouldn't have pegged you as a science fiction enthusiast. So what's your story? What brought you to this role that you have right now in automated transport?
Siri:I see the possibilities that technology can bring us and making lives better, making it easier, but also understanding some of the limits, because how can we use this technology as a mean to achieve a greater goal for the people of Norway?
Siri:we can use this possibility that's arising to make lives and cities better and greener.
Arild:I appreciate that very much and I feel that I read that same opinion in this document. But I was surprised in a positive way that it also discusses some seldom touched upon points, things like creating the necessary infrastructure by means of data and also education. Could you tell me a little bit about the discussions that led to that part of this document?
Siri:Talking about autonomy in transport sector, we've talked a lot about benefits in the greater sense that it will hopefully increase mobility specifically for those who don't have it today, whether their site is impaired or they have mobility issues.
Siri:We're hoping that we can have more shared mobility to decrease the number of vehicles on the road, but there are, of course, aspects if we don't discuss them beforehand that can worsen the situation, and there's also some enablers that we need to have discussed properly to make sure that we get the benefit that we want. For instance, you know saying that, okay, well, you know, everybody having their own private autonomous vehicle will be a great way of having increased mobility, but at the same time, if everyone has their own vehicles, that's driving around also empty, when you're not using it, or even just circling around the town because it's cheaper to drive than to park, that will make some cities that we do not actually want to live in because they're just cars. Finding the balance between these points where do we draw the line? How can we get the most benefit with the least side effects? It has been kind of the core of the strategy work.
Arild:Yes, and the result of that is that the Norwegian Public Roads Administration, along with the rest of the public mobility sector in Norway, leans towards self-driving in combination with ride sharing as a means to reduce the dependency on a private car in cities. Would you agree?
Siri:I think the important thing is that the last part you said in the cities, because I think we have to have different approaches to urban and rural areas.
Arild:Absolutely.
Siri:Not necessarily that you can't have shared in rural areas, but if you have the traditional mass transport, that the MASS is the key word here, so I think we have to look at it in different ways. And then, of course, there are still vehicles on the road.
Siri:That doesn't transport people so we need to look at logistics and goods and maybe look at these together and to use the capacity of the vehicles. But then we also have a third segment, which is emergency, which is preparedness and evacuations and all of these things that we don't necessarily talk so much about because it just happens.
Arild:Yes, we take it for granted.
Siri:Yes.
Arild:And yet the discussions are a lot about exactly that point, about ride sharing in contrast to autonomous vehicles driving around instead of parking. That's like where we usually go With this document and also the Oslo study by Ruter. I completely agree that there's a hope there, right, but it also implies a massive transfer of costs from private households to public transport providers. If you're going to replace a lot of the transport that is today done by private cars with something that's done by a public transport provider in some form right the investments and also the consumption of fuel or electricity or whatever that sort of means we have to make some really big political decisions, and I kind of feel that we're not able to make those decisions these days.
Siri:Well, I'm not going to go too far into politics because that's not my job. Luckily other people who have that task.
Siri:But yes, you're right, and I think this can sort of circle back to what we've been working on earlier, which is behavior and how to change behavior, because I think that the private car for many represents some sort of freedom, of course, and I can understand that, because you can go wherever you want, whenever you want, managing to sort of flip that, saying that you can almost do that for 10% of the cost, is a behavioral change.
Arild:Yes.
Siri:I think that's something that needs to be changed throughout generations. Because it's ingrained, especially in the people a little bit older than me. I'm not that young anymore, but a little bit older. The car was a symbol of freedom.
Arild:Oh, absolutely, and for many it still is.
Siri:For many they enjoy driving and I remember I've talked to people who ride a motorcycle. They don't want that autonomous, because it's the joy of riding. I remember there was a study on micromobility driving an e-scooter. Some do it because it's fun oh sure, Not because they need to get somewhere and some enjoy driving. Maybe they don't hike or walk the mountains, but they can drive and see them. So there's a mix, I think, and finding again, you know, a common balance is what we're trying to do, at least.
Arild:There are so many feelings involved. Those are some of the best conversations you can have when you don't have to meet someone right in their eye, for example, like teenage sons.
Siri:I'm sure, listening to taylor swift and driving, that's the time I get to talk to my daughter.
Arild:So I understand that maybe, quite possibly the, behavior change will take longer than the technical challenges. And I think, that's I mean, both the behavioral change will take longer than the technical challenges.
Siri:And I think that's I mean both the behavioral change but also infrastructure change, cultural as to data sharing, and legislative work will take time.
Arild:Do you think we will be able to in Norway to withstand the commercial aspect of autonomous driving if we want to regulate it so as to not have the future with non-parking cars driving around on their own?
Siri:I think we can regulate it, but I also think we need to work closely with the manufacturers to make the vehicles something that will fit into society, and I think it's in their benefit as well to do that. And I don't think we should necessarily be the country that says no to everything, because there are benefits also, especially logistics and freight transport, which is a single use vehicle it's not in that sense that it's a driver and a vehicle where you can use the capacity of the road and the vehicle in a much better way environmentally than what you do today.
Arild:Were you able to engage the private car industry in any way as a part of developing this strategy, or my feeling is that they're kind of silent. Of course, we don't have manufacturers in Norway, but we have importers and we have organizations for the car industry importers, and we've had Elon Musk here in Norway a couple of years ago and we've had just last year the supreme leader of BYD, Wang Chuanfu, was in Drammen, my hometown. We are on the map for these manufacturers. Were you able to bring them into the document production?
Siri:No, we did not have the international OMEs in the process, and I think one part of it is because mostly the countries in Europe said that we will stand behind the EU regulations. A nd I think that's clever, because Norway in itself is too small, with too few market shares, to have their own legislative agenda.
Arild:Absolutely. Yet we are importing a lot of Chinese cars, which the Americans are not doing. At the moment at least, we have an open free market, and that could be, in a sense, of vulnerability. You've done a lot of work regarding preparedness, or beredskap as we say in Norwegian. What kind of risks are there with a system based on autonomy?
Siri:When we digitalize services, that's normally a good thing for the end user. It makes something easier, easier to access, easier to understand, it goes quicker. But it also poses a threat because it's easy to get into, specifically in transport. This is a change that hasn't been talked so much about. In the old days it sounds like it's forever since. But when you bought a car you owned the car, you owned every part of it like a book. But now when you buy a car it's a computer, so someone else has also access to it, so you can look at it in a way that you've internationalized and centralized car ownership or vehicle ownership. In a given case, if we are no longer friends with a country and that country has a massive share of cars in Norway, they can just lock all the cars with a code, which means that if we're trying to evacuate, if we're trying to move people, this could be quite a big disturbance.
Siri:I'm not saying that that means that we shouldn't have automated cars, but I think it's something we need to address and it's something we need to discuss. But this is something that I think we need to keep in mind, especially if we take out the driver, because right now, the driver is the safety fallback solution. I am optimistic in technology, but I'm even more optimistic in humans.
Arild:Okay, good for you.
Siri:I think that they adapt easier to anything that's unusual, a crisis, and they have the common sense. But if you have it autonomous, how do you train on the unexpected? Do you train on historical data? But what if it's never happened before?
Arild:Well, Waymo will tell you that their driver has driven more than any other human driver ever in history and will have experienced more unusual situations than any other driver ever. But I agree with you that it just might't might not feel like it will be able to handle any situation.
Siri:And we've seen this with you know trucks with ads on the sides, and how autonomous vehicle can misinterpret that as something else. This is technology and, to be fair, that's the easy part, because there's all these human factors, the culture of how we implement this into Norway, and that's the hard part.
Siri:So it's really interesting to see how the rest of traffic will function when driverless cars are mingling with the other cars, with other drivers.. . And especially when we will have both driverless cars and human drivers, because we will have that for a long time. The normal car has a a a a a a ifespanf7ears y 2 o l l l l l l lundefined lifespan 27for7 2 27 time. normal
Arild:It has such a big meaning for cities in this country, what this authority does.
Arild:The municipalities are underfunded. They are not as competent as the big organization, so what you guys do means so much for small towns. So I'm wondering what's the next step now, after this strategy is done? Where are you taking us?
Siri:I need to point out that this is a proposal for a strategy and we've sent it to the Ministry of Transportation. We've finished our work, so now it's up to them to figure out how to take this on. So it hasn't been approved or it hasn't been in the parliament. If that's even something it should do, I wouldn't be surprised if there will be a follow-up from the ministry in some sort.
Siri:We have three hats in how we work at the Norwegian Public Roads Administration, and one is the one that maybe people think the most about we maintain and we build roads and bridges and tunnels. And the second one is that we're the authority, so we work with the Road Act and the Road Traffic Act and the ITS Act and all these laws and the regulations. But the last sort of hat that we wear is that we're also an expert agency where we help municipalities and counties in developing their road ownership, so to speak. And I think that's maybe the most important aspect of our work in this setting and figuring out what kind of infrastructure we need or do not need. I think it's a key point, moving on, because we don't build nearly enough new roads to change the infrastructure too much.
Arild:So what kind of infrastructure do you think automated transport needs? What are your examples?
Siri:I'd like to shift that question because I think that we need to ask the vehicle manufacturers what kind of information on our roads do you need to operate? Like I said, we don't build enough new roads, so we can't put cables or markers or something new and fancy that is not going to work on Bajarfjellet going from Bodø to Bajarn. So we need to work with figuring out how to make these vehicles work on the roads that we have, and that's a challenge. When you look to okay, you can look to the US or to China and you see this is working, but it's working in a very specific area and they worked hard to map that and to set up the service in that specific area and it's catering to the infrastructure that is in place.
Arild:Yes.
Siri:So, rolling this out in all of Norway, whether it's Finnmark or Oslo, is a completely different thing than setting it up in Groruddalen or Phoenix, Arizona. It's a very, very small, confined area. Although you can say Groruddalen is big, in this sense, it's small.
Arild:So there are still technical challenges and issues, that's for sure. Do you perceive robotaxis, as we've seen them in the US, for example, as safe at this point?
Siri:The baseline of how we measure safety needs to be taken into consideration. We're very good at this in Norway. In Norway, there's two people dying per 100,000 every year Still too too many. In the US it's seven, and in China it every year. Yeah, still too too many. In the US it's seven, and in China it's nine. So where you start out from is important when you assess if it's safe or not. Yeah, is it safer than what we have today? Yes, in the US. Is it safer than what we have today in China? Yes, maybe. Is it safer in Norway, maybe not. We've been very good at working with traffic safety and for something to be safe in Norway, it needs to be safer than it is in the US or China.
Siri:There's differences between nations on how you perceive something to be safe. It's based on what risk you already have. That's a point that sometimes gets missed in the discussion, but it's also valuable to take into consideration that we're very good with this in Norway, and if we are to allow autonomous vehicles, we need to be just as good when allowing them to drive on our roads.
Arild:So for us, maybe the demand is not so much safety, maybe for us we are as consumers we will want this technology because of the convenience and the comfort that it might offer. This technology because of the convenience and the comfort that it might offer, and that sort of becomes a dilemma if we don't really want a lot of cars driving around, like we were talking about.
Siri:And for us within the National Public Road Administration, it is completely a no-go if something is deemed as being not as safe as today. We're not going backwards into the future.
Arild:So are there any special regulations or rules and guidelines that we need for in the future?
Siri:Well, there are rules and regulations that we are working on today that we see that might need to be revised. First of all, we have a law for testing today, which is also perceived as being one of the best laws in Europe, at least for testing, because it's quite flexible, because it allows us to have a discussion between us as a regulatory agency and, specifically, maybe in Norway, the public transport agencies. Norway also has laws and regulations that define both the rights but also the responsibility of a driver. It can be small things like securing belts for children in the backseat. Today, that is the driver's responsibility. In freight transport, it's the driver's responsibility to secure their freight. So we've placed a lot of responsibility on the driver and in some instances, we need to look at who will have the responsibility if the driver doesn't have it.
Arild:On this issue of responsibility. What are the car manufacturers point of view? I mean, do they want to take on the responsibility that they don't have today for how their product is used when it's self-driving? What would that look like?
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--tw-border-spacing-y: 0; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgba(59,130,246,. 5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-drop-shadow: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ; background-color: rgb(252, 252, 253);">don't</span><span data-v-839d0875="" class="transcript-element fadingHighlightedWord" data-mindex="64" data-eindex="19" data-key="6419 1187. 538" style="--tw-border-spacing-x: 0; --tw-border-spacing-y: 0; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw- r proximity; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgba(59,130,246,. 5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-drop-shadow: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ; background-color: rgb(252, 252, 253);"> </span><span data-v-839d0875="" class="transcript-element fadingHighlightedWord" data-mindex="64" data-eindex="31" data-key="6431who1189. 93" style="--tw-border-spacing-x: 0; --tw-border-spacing-y: 0; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgba(59,130,246,. 5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-drop-shadow: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ; background-color: rgb(252, 252, 253);">who</span><span data-v-839d0875="" class="transcript-element" data-mindex="64" data-eindex="32" data-key="6432 1190. 03" style="--tw-border-spacing-x: 0; --tw-border-spacing-y: 0; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgba(59,130,246,. 5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-drop-shadow: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-satura slate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgba(59,130,246,. 5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-drop-shadow: c-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgba(59,130,246,. 5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-drop-shadow: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ; background-color: rgb(252, 252, 253);">.</span><span data-v-839d0875="" class="transcript-element fadingHighlightedWord" data-mindex="64" data-eindex="39" data-key="6439 1191. 313" style="--tw-border-spacing-x: 0; --tw-border-spacing-y: 0; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgba(59,130,246,. 5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-drop-shadow: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ; background-color: rgb(252, 252, 253);"> </span><span data-v-839d0875="" class="transcript-element fadingHighlightedWord" data-mindex="64" data-eindex="40" data-key="6440No1191. 574" style="--tw-border-spacing-x: 0; --tw-border-spacing-y: 0; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgba(59,130,246,. 5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-drop-shadow: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ; background-color: rgb(252, 252, 253);">No</span><span data-v-839d0875="" class="transcript-element fadingHighlightedWord" data-mindex="64" data-eindex="41" data-key="6441 1191. 694" style="--tw-border-spacing-x: 0; --tw-border-spacing-y: 0; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgba(59,130,246,. 5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-drop-shadow: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate: ; --tw-backdrop-invert: ; --tw-backdrop-opacity: ; --tw-backdrop-saturate: ; --tw-backdrop-sepia: ; background-color: rgb(252, 252, 253);"> </span><span data-v-839d0875="" class="transcript-element fadingHighlightedWord" data-mindex="64" data-eindex="42" data-key="6442one1191. 795" style="--tw-border-spacing-x: 0; --tw-border-spacing-y: 0; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-pan-x: ; --tw-pan-y: ; --tw-pinch-zoom: ; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ordinal: ; --tw-slashed-zero: ; --tw-numeric-figure: ; --tw-numeric-spacing: ; --tw-numeric-fraction: ; --tw-ring-inset: ; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgba(59,130,246,. 5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-drop-shadow: ; --tw-backdrop-blur: ; --tw-backdrop-brightness: ; --tw-backdrop-contrast: ; --tw-backdrop-grayscale: ; --tw-backdrop-hue-rotate:
Arild:But there's a whole chain of technologies involved when running a self-driving vehicle, not just the car producer, but also, like the satellite system or whatever right, at least one of the Chinese car manufacturers is also launching their satellites to control their self-driving cars in the future. So I mean the whole responsibility issue is very complex.
Siri:And now it's become more murkier. It's not quite defined who is responsible.
Siri:And if you put it on self-driving and the map isn't updated or it hasn't the right speed limits, whose fault is that? Is it the driver? Is it the car manufacturer? Is it the map manufacturer, or is it the one putting the data into the map, which I think is? At some point this will become clearer, but it's not as of today.
Arild:Can we imagine that as a part of automated transport, you have to have paid your insurance for the car to work, you have to have paid your yearly road tax for the car to be allowed to work, you have to have paid your loan for the car. I mean pretty complex stuff.
Siri:Yes, but there's also some other possibilities, because you can connect driving a car to approval, which we don't necessarily have today. You can drive without a license it's illegal but you can and you can drive under the influence. You can drive freight transport which is a lot heavier than it should be. You can drive without the right tires on bad conditions. So all of this with more automated services, you can sort of get rid of, and that's one of the benefits of the technology, at least possibilities, at least possibilities.
Arild:Extremely exciting possibilities. Yes.
Siri:And I think if you move towards those little low-hanging fruits of working on that first, I think that's sort of the proper way to address this. Not necessarily think that you will have driverless cars all over, but trying to find okay, where can we, where do we have possibilities that will make the road safer for everyone Interesting.
Arild:Okay, wow, a lot of new things to build, in my opinion at least. In my opinion at least. So, siri, we're almost out of time here and, as you know, we always ask if someone has a confession to make. And you asked me if I had one and I didn't come up with anything other than the fact that I still prefer a stick shift. But do you have any confessions to make?
Siri:Well, maybe not a confession per se, but at least a little bit of a fun story to why there's an added value to working in this sector. For me at least. This is the first time that my son thinks what mommy does is cool. Automated vehicles can't be any cooler than that Going up to Alneia and hacking vehicles with their GPS. How cool is that Mommy doing something illegal? So for the first time, my son approves of my work.
Arild:Finally, that must be very satisfying, very satisfying, yeah, good, good. Thank you to our guest, siri Vassau, senior Advisor at the Norwegian Public Roads Administration. We've been talking about the National Strategy for Automated Road Transport that was released earlier this year.
Siri:Thank you for having me, it was fun.
Arild:To our listeners. Thanks so much for tuning in. Join us again for the next episode of the Autonomy Journals brought to you by SAMS, the Norwegian Innovation Cluster for Autonomous Mobility and Transport Systems. Autonomy In Norway we do it.
Siri:We are looking forward to sharing the next episode with you. If you like the sound of this, please subscribe to the podcast and follow the Autonomy Journals on Spotify and other channels. We'd love to hear from you. Tell us what you'd love to hear more about around autonomy, Because in Norway we do it.