The Autonomy Journals
The Autonomy Journals showcase leading voices, sharing insights, learnings, lessons and perhaps some confessions from the Autonomy Journey in transport and mobility.
SAMS, a private, non-profit innovation cluster for sustainable, autonomous mobility solutions, host the podcast.
The Autonomy Journals
The Regulatory Roadmap for Autonomous Ships | Nils Haktor Bua from The Norwegian Maritime Authority
What does the future of autonomous shipping really look like? Forget the science fiction scenarios of completely unmanned ghost ships navigating the high seas without human oversight. The reality, as revealed by Nils Haktor Bua, head of new maritime technology at the Norwegian Maritime Authority, is far more nuanced and practical.
Norway stands at the forefront of maritime autonomy, pioneering an approach that balances innovation with safety. Bua takes us behind the regulatory curtain, revealing how his department of just seven people is helping shape the future of shipping not just in Norwegian waters but globally through their contributions to the International Maritime Organization's MASS Code (Maritime Autonomous Surface Ships).
"We want to be a partner in development," Bua explains, rejecting the traditional regulatory stance of simply saying "no" to unregulated technologies. This progressive approach has enabled groundbreaking projects like Yara Birkeland, the world's first autonomous container ship, to move from concept to reality. The vessel, designed to replace 40,000 diesel truck journeys annually, represents the kind of practical application driving maritime autonomy – solutions to real-world problems rather than technology for technology's sake.
Perhaps most reassuring is Bua's perspective on how autonomy will affect maritime employment. Rather than eliminating jobs, he sees transformation: "I'm not afraid there will not be jobs for seafarers. There will be a lot of jobs." From control room operations to new roles we haven't yet imagined, maritime careers will evolve alongside the technology. Early results are already proving the value of automation, with even basic autonomous functions delivering immediate 5% energy savings before any machine learning optimization.
Curious about the ships navigating Norway's waters today with autonomous capabilities? Listen to discover the fascinating projects already operational and what's coming next in this maritime revolution. Subscribe to Autonomy Journals for more insights into how Norway is turning autonomous ambitions into everyday reality.
The Autonomy Journals showcase leading voices, sharing insights, learnings, lessons and perhaps some confessions from the Autonomy Journey in transport and mobility.
Subscribe to the Autonomy Journals and join us next time as we continue exploring how Norway leads the way in autonomous mobility solutions. Because in Norway, we do it.
SAMS is a private, non-profit innovation cluster for sustainable, autonomous mobility solutions and the host of the podcast.
That's a point where I actually don't trust.
Arild Tjomsland:Hello and welcome to the Autonomy Journals podcast brought to you by SAMS, the Norwegian Innovation Cluster for Autonomous Mobility and Transport Systems. Autonomy in Norway we do it. We are your hosts.
Eja Tuominen:Eja and Aril, I'm leading the Norwegian Innovation Cluster for Sustainable Autonomous Mobility Systems.
Arild Tjomsland:And I'm the founder of a small company in the mobility space, Cobra.
Eja Tuominen:The Autonomy Journals is aimed at inviting you into the autonomous universe of new ideas, innovation, great progress and feedback.
Arild Tjomsland:Translating visions and complexities, one interesting conversation at a time, and we'll offer links and resources to autonomy sites and news in the credits.
Eja Tuominen:Today we have our studio at Norshipping, the big trade fair in Norway for maritime. Welcome to a new episode of the Autonomy Journals. Our guest today is Nils Haktarboa, the head of the section for new maritime technology in the Norwegian Maritime Authority, sjöfartsdirektoratet. Welcome, thank you. We can start by you telling a little bit about your personal journey to autonomy.
Nils Haktor Bua:It started more or less when I was studying at NTNU in Trondheim. I'm a naval architect but, having a master in marine cybernetics, getting a job in the Norwegian Maritime Authority, the Jarabirkland concept came on our table and then my journey started. Actually, I've never looked back.
Eja Tuominen:In case there would be someone listening to this podcast who doesn't know what Jarabirkland is. How would you describe it?
Nils Haktor Bua:When the concept Jarabirkland came, it was Kongsberg Maritime and Jara that came to us and said okay, Yara, they wanted to have transport of containers with their goods just outside Porsgrunn. That time it was a lot of trailers going on the road safety issues, quite bad roads, so they wanted to have a green transport. It's a battery electric container ship. It's 80 meter long, can take around 120 feet containers and it sails today. As far as I know, it sails automatic today, but we're not quite yet there that they are unmanned. But it was a really important start. It's a new thing also that it was the cargo owner starting to look into this. It wasn't technology developers, it was the cargo owner that saw that, okay, we need something else here to compete with the trailers.
Eja Tuominen:I would say the most important beginning of the autonomy journey in norway can you share the role of norwegian maritime authority and the story founding the new maritime technology section or department, particularly thinking of a listening support?
Nils Haktor Bua:We are technology neutral. We have to be, but our role is to make sure that implementation of new technology are done in a safe way. That's our biggest goal when our customer come to us and want to do something outside of the standard regulation. On the other side, we also have a role, as we we all need to go in a greener direction. So so that's also a goal for us. It's the customer's projects, but we really want them to happen and we want to follow it up so that they are done in a safe way.
Nils Haktor Bua:The customer they are the ones that set the goals of okay, we want to be unmanned or remote controlled, or using hydrogen as fuel, for example, if you want to do that, at least we will try to direct, to go through the process of having this implemented in a safe way. So we are today seven people, so it's not a big department, but we are on the same level as normal departments on cargo ships and passenger ships and fisheries ships. The process of implementing new technology it's more or less equal. So it is important for us to be good at that process. We need to have competence also in autonomy, in hydrogen, in ammonia and the process and the technology maritime is in disruption, with energy and digitalization and everything that it brings.
Eja Tuominen:What's your vision for the new technology in maritime, especially in the role in the maritime authority?
Nils Haktor Bua:we want to be a partner in the development, we really want to look into what the customers come with, see if this is possible and we want to help them. It would be much easier to lean back and say that, oh no, this is not regulated, so you can't do it, and then we stop innovation. To be open, to look into things, it's so important. But, that said, it's not the same as saying yes to everything and it doesn't mean that everything will be okay. That happens to be a case of yeah, okay is the risk, okay for us and for the society and for everyone, and then we can look into it. But at least not lean back from the beginning and say that, no, this is not regulated and we can't handle it. That would be quite passive. To be upfront and open-handed and look into things is really important.
Eja Tuominen:You are in the core of setting the regulations in Norway. Where are we now actually with the regulations and what can we expect in the future?
Nils Haktor Bua:We have regulations now that open up for dealing with new technology. It is a huge process. We do not have specific regulations for all these things but maybe we could have some more in some areas. But I'm afraid that if we're getting too specific too early, based on too few concepts, then we need to be too conservative in the regulations. It will be too much and not good for the innovation but for the autonomy we have had for quite a few years at least.
Nils Haktor Bua:A circular in Norway Dealing with this, taking the international regulation for implementing new technology, the process of that what does that mean in documentation, risk assessments, what do you need to show to us? So it's a bit more detailed into how you are going to do this process, but it's not prescriptive regulations in that way. That said, all the projects going on in Norway that circular and so on has been really important now when they work on the mass code in IMO. So we have quite a huge role in development in the mass code. Most relevant now is probably to be a big part of the MASS code development and then make that so that that becomes something that we can stand for and then take back again to Norway and be more or less how we want it to be.
Eja Tuominen:The MASS code is actually an abbreviation for Maritime Autonomous Surface Ships and it's a project. It's an initiative by the International Maritime Organization, the IMO, to regulate and facilitate the development and operation of autonomous ships, and the code development is expected to be finalized in 2026?.
Nils Haktor Bua:Yeah, hopefully.
Eja Tuominen:Hopefully with the mandatory version to be adopted by 2030. When you work from inside, does that timeline look realistic?
Nils Haktor Bua:Probably it has been adjusted a few times, but I think it's important then to state that also the mass code it won't be really prescriptive regulation either, to actually say that we want a mass code in IMO. I think that's more important than actually the result at the end, because then we have said in IMO that okay, this is something we want to regulate, we want this to happen, and so the most important thing about the MASS code is the opening of having more automation in international waters and probably then between countries. I think the most important thing is that we actually do it.
Eja Tuominen:And what is the benefit of doing it?
Nils Haktor Bua:Why it takes time. One of the most important things why it takes time to develop the MASS code is that here in Norway, we had projects on autonomous since 2016. It is a huge learning process for a lot of people in IMO how this is dealt with, what it means. Other countries they are afraid that, oh, this will be enormous amount of unmanned autonomous ships sailing around and it will be chaotic. I do not think that that will be the case. Is it 80 000 vessels around the world or something? And if there will be thousands of unmanned ships, it's still a small amount. The most important thing is that we do it and then the learning process. For all that, it is maybe not that there are so many aspects that it is not necessarily that dangerous or that difficult as someone wants it to be. I think that's the most important that, okay, we're getting on the same level of understanding of what we're actually dealing with.
Eja Tuominen:So the IMO work with MAS is about creating interest and understanding in all the 140 maritime operating countries in the world. Coming from that, I've also understood that the word autonomy and the thought of autonomous ships creates a lot of emotions. What is your view and the wording on that and what wording industry is using today?
Nils Haktor Bua:Too much focus on using autonomous ships in the beginning made things take longer time than it could. Autonomy by itself it happens to be okay, something that happens without human intervention. When we went further in the beginning, we saw that okay, but there will be a human involved in some way. How big the involvement will be, that will differ. We will have some cases where there will be people on board that can intervene if necessary. There will be fully remotely controlled vessels. There will be more people monitoring vessels and so on, but in some way there will be people on board. And and it was also a discussion in IMO the mass word maritime autonomous surface ship was and it was a discussion. Okay, is that correct to use? But the thing was that it is so difficult to change such a world because everyone working with this knows what we are talking about. I often say autonomous ships still, but I try to say more automatic or unmanned or remote control, but it's not easy. But I think that's not necessarily that easy for everyone that's not into it in that way to understand and that makes people more afraid of it than they should be, in a way.
Nils Haktor Bua:What do we mean when we talk about autonomous ships today.
Nils Haktor Bua:In every ship there is a set of functions to sail, the ship to work with, the machinery, space, the firefighting there are passengers to handle and every ship have a different package of functions and also a different way of dealing with the functions. In some cases, when we have unmanned ships, some functions will not be necessary, some functions will probably be remotely controlled and some functions will be automatic and some functions will maybe be done by people on board. So how much of this are done automatic? How much is done remotely controlled and so on. So we need to break it down more into dealing with functions more than saying saying that yeah, it's autonomous, it's something that does it by itself. It is a bit too wide to say. I believe there are many good steps on the way to be able to help the people driving the ship, make things easier, and that has been a development all the time. A lot more functions to deal with for the humans on board a ship 50 years ago than it is today, at least when we talk about autonomy and autonomous ships.
Eja Tuominen:That's a cover world for all of these concepts I meet the same feelings with our name of our cluster Sustainable Autonomous Mobility Systems. I usually ask people not to get stuck on the autonomous word and explaining it's a journey.
Nils Haktor Bua:We are on a journey.
Eja Tuominen:And it's not that we're going to go fully autonomous overnight. It's a step-by-step, function-by-function, and let's see how far we ever will go.
Nils Haktor Bua:And I understand it, that people, you're going to take away my job and we need to understand that. Of course, that makes emotions. I'm not afraid that there will not be jobs for seafarers. There will be a lot of jobs for seafarers.
Eja Tuominen:Absolutely so. The outlook for the ongoing transformation on seas towards automated solutions. It's that it's going to take time and there will be a lot of jobs still Some of the same and some new Definitely some new, and some of that will probably be that there will be more jobs.
Nils Haktor Bua:In control rooms, for example, you can go home, and I hope they see that. Okay, a lot of this will make it better for them and maybe make the workday a bit easier. If it's not, then we are not on the right direction, I believe.
Eja Tuominen:So you mentioned that the seafarers working conditions will be better because they might be able to return to home after a work day after they shift. What other benefits is there in automizing functions and going towards autonomous ships?
Nils Haktor Bua:you can take out people from unsafe operations and so on. That's a possibility and to make things more efficient and then being more green.
Eja Tuominen:I remember hearing that after the first week of implementing the autonomous functions on that ferry the savings on energy were already five percent. And that was before the machine had learned anything. It was on factory settings. It doesn't try to be in time by giving it a little bit extra speed, it just arrives exactly when planned. So 5% is a big energy saving, regardless if it's battery or oil.
Nils Haktor Bua:That's the next thing you can do when you have automated that function. Okay, then you can adjust more into. Okay, is it possible to reduce the energy consumption even more? And so on, doing other sailing routes and so on. It's just to say that it's not just a drive of removing people away from the ship the emotional barriers.
Eja Tuominen:There is this fear of unknown, of course, the fear of losing your own job and the fear of entering in a world that you don't know about. What other barriers are there towards autonomy?
Nils Haktor Bua:I think it's also a barrier of letting technology do functions. We have automatic functions. Just look at your phone. Now Every app has something AI that can do things for you. I'm a bit afraid of using that as well. I think we are a bit afraid of okay, yeah, but will this be good enough? And of course, it is a barrier, and that will be for all new technology.
Nils Haktor Bua:If there's a fire on a diesel vessel, it is bad, but it doesn't happen to be that. Okay, now we stopped using diesel on a ship. But if there's a fire in a hydrogen ship or an explosion, or if one of these automatic ships collide, there will be so much more things around it and it might happen to be that it will stop the development. So I think that's also a barrier. That's part of the process here that maybe it could have gone faster in some cases. But to take this process, that, okay, it could have gone faster in some cases. But to take this process that, okay, it takes time, but that we know that, okay, this will be good. From our side, we say, yeah, safer, safer.
Eja Tuominen:Sometimes, when talking to industry representatives and technology providers, they mention as a barrier the regulatory framework, and you represent now the regulatory framework here, so what's your thought about that?
Nils Haktor Bua:As we have shown. We really want this to happen and we definitely have a regulatory framework to handle this in the risk-based process and we have a framework for testing. I'm not sure if I agree on every time people say that it's definitely the regulatory framework. That's the biggest barrier. We are really open for the customers and the stakeholders here to do testing of systems, but in many cases, even though we say yeah, but of course, when you have people on board, as long as you do it in a safe way, the people on board know how to deal with a system and how they're going to look at it when it's under testing, feel free, of course, do it and then it doesn't happen. Then I, okay, is it really the framework, regular framework, or is it that the technology is, isn't there, as there could be better regulatory framework, maybe easier and so on, but there is a balance, of course.
Nils Haktor Bua:Everyone that develops some new technology, they want the regulations to be exactly as they want it. But if we're going to do that, then the next one comes and says something else and if that was the case, I believe they have seen that. Okay, it's probably not what we want today, how the framework is today with this process. I I think it's a. It's a fantastic possibility to show that your technology is possible to use and it's safe to use. So use that possibility to show us and to show the society that this works. Yes, it might be a big process, a hard process, but it's definitely look at it as a big potential of showing that what you really do is a good thing to do.
Eja Tuominen:The Norwegian maritime authorities are indeed very innovative, friendly with this testing setup that you have, allowing companies to test new innovative solutions at sea. With that you have created an overview of the projects that are going on in Norway. The three first big vessels they have been cargo, järabirkeland for containers, and then Asko, which is a grocery wholesaler. They're semi-trailer sea drones crossing the Oslo Fjord. What other big projects have been taking place here in Norway?
Nils Haktor Bua:It's definitely important, then, to mention the two big projects now with the USV Challenger from Deep Ocean. It's a 24-meter vessel with an ROV on board.
Nils Haktor Bua:They will be remotely controlled from the motor in Haugesund, and more or less the same concept with reach remote, which is reach subsea's owning. They will be remotely controlled from masterly in Horten, also 24 meters, with the ROV on board, also 24 meters with the ROV on board. It's then offshore vessels. They will go out doing ROV operations, unmanned, remotely controlled. Really interesting projects and they are now sailing. They are both in Haugesund these days and then we're definitely back to okay, it is around the concept of autonomous ships, but it's definitely remotely controlled ships, but it's unmanned. That's really important projects going on.
Nils Haktor Bua:And we also have this Fjord 1 project on Lavik-Oppedal, the ferry between Lavik and Oppedal, where Fjord 1 won the competition, where it was making a concept with more automation. Of course we have had a lot of concepts with small passenger crafts inside of cities and so on. The only one which is actually sailing is the Mille Ampere in Trondheim, but now with the Fjord 1 on Lave Koppedal, it's huge ferries. So there will be built four ferries going on that sailing route with more automation. Of course a ferry with a lot of passengers will never be uncrewed or unmanned, but with the implementation of more automatic functions. So that will be really interesting to follow the next years, and that's in a good process these days.
Eja Tuominen:Nils Hector, it's come down to the last and very exciting question what is your autonomy confession?
Nils Haktor Bua:I really love my vacuum cleaner robots back home and my Google setup and so on in my house. My wife is not all the time like it that much, wife, it's not all the time like it that much, but when it comes to driving, I have a tesla and then the automatic functions on driving that I almost never use. Then it's back to. I'm getting afraid when the car will do the steering by itself. I don't comfortable and it might be because of where I live. I live in a place where it's not the best road, so there are many ups and downs and that's a point where I actually don't trust.
Eja Tuominen:Thank you, I think that's quite a confession.
Nils Haktor Bua:So we will see where that ends, but maybe in a few years. That's better.
Eja Tuominen:Thank you, Nils Haktor, the head of new technologies in Norwegian Maritime Authority.
Nils Haktor Bua:Thank you for letting me have it.
Eja Tuominen:You have now been listening to an episode of Autonomy Journals with the guest Nils Haktor Boa. We've been discussing the Norwegian maritime regulations. He's representing new technologies in Maritime Authority.
Arild Tjomsland:To our listeners. Thanks so much for tuning in regulations. He's presenting new technologies in maritime authority To our listeners. Thanks so much for tuning in. Join us again for the next episode of the Autonomy Journals brought to you by SAMS, the Norwegian Innovation Cluster for Autonomous Mobility and Transport Systems. Autonomy in Norway we do it.
Eja Tuominen:We are looking forward to sharing the next episode with you. If you like the sound of this, please subscribe to the podcast and follow the Autonomy Journals on Spotify and other channels. We'd love to hear from you. Tell us what you'd love to hear more about around autonomy, because in Norway we do it.