The Autonomy Journals

Bridges Are Great—But What If The Ferry Never Sleeps? Erik Froste from the Swedish Road Ferries

• SAMS - Sustainable Autonomous Mobility Systems • Season 2 • Episode 13

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What if a ferry could run quietly through the night, docking with millimetre precision, serving an island community without burning a drop of diesel? We sit down with Erik Froste, CEO of Swedish Road Ferries, to unpack how a state operator is turning that vision into daily reality—one vessel, one route, and one carefully tested software update at a time.

Erik takes us from the captain’s bridge to the control room, explaining why autonomy in maritime isn’t a novelty; it’s an answer to real problems: emissions, safety, and access. Sweden’s Vision 45 pairs electrification with digitalisation, then layers in automation and autonomy to reduce energy use, slash CO2, and make crossings safer than ever with auto-docking, automated mooring, and collision-avoidance systems. The human story shines through: extending 24/7 ferry service can keep elders on their islands, support caregivers at night, and preserve community life—all while navigating a growing shortage of skilled sailors.

We also dive into the operating model behind the technology. Modularity and digital twins ensure every vessel shares a common architecture, updates get validated ashore, and failures don’t cascade across the fleet. Training shifts from diesel engines to battery management systems, high-voltage safety, and data from thousands of sensors. Some captains move into remote operations centres; others lead on-water trials. Along the way, Sweden’s public ownership unlocks openness across Nordic and global partners, accelerating learning with Kongsberg, universities, and peers in Japan and Norway, and providing the evidence regulators need to approve new levels of autonomy.

If you’re curious about autonomous shipping, electric ferries, maritime safety technology, or how public–private collaboration accelerates climate-positive transport, this conversation offers a grounded blueprint. Subscribe, share with a colleague who cares about clean mobility, and leave a review with your biggest question about autonomous ferries—what would you want to see tested next?

The Autonomy Journals showcase leading voices, sharing insights, learnings, lessons and perhaps some confessions from the Autonomy Journey in transport and mobility.

Subscribe to the Autonomy Journals and join us next time as we continue exploring how Norway leads the way in autonomous mobility solutions. Because in Norway, we do it.

SAMS is a private, non-profit innovation cluster for sustainable, autonomous mobility solutions and the host of the podcast.

https://www.sams-norway.no/

Arild Tjomsland:

There will lack 100,000 sailors and that will increase. Hello and welcome to the Autonomy Journals Podcast, brought to you by SAMS, the Norwegian Innovation Cluster for Autonomous Mobility and Transport Systems. Autonomy. In Norway, we do it. We are your hosts, Eja and Arild.

Eja Tuominen:

I'm leading the Norwegian Innovation Cluster for Sustainable Autonomous Mobility Systems.

Arild Tjomsland:

And I'm the founder of a small company in the mobility space, Kobla.

Eja Tuominen:

The Autonomy Journals is aimed at inviting you into the autonomous universe of new ideas, innovation, great progress and feedback.

Arild Tjomsland:

Translating visions and complexities, one interesting conversation at a time, and will offer links and resources to Autonomy Sites and News in the credits.

Eja Tuominen:

Today we have our studio at North Shipping, the big trade fair in Norway for Maritime. Warm welcome to a new episode of the Autonomy Journal. Big welcome to Erik Froste, the CEO of the Swedish Road Administration, the Swedish Road Ferris, to this podcast episode in Autonomy Journals.

Erik Froste:

Warm welcome. Thank you very much. It's an honour to be here.

Eja Tuominen:

What sparked your interest in autonomy and transport?

Erik Froste:

I'm a captain, master maritime from the beginning, so doing the maritime industry, doing the shipping is natural for me. Since I was 17, I went ashore. And the whole time I've been thinking, why do you do the automatisation in the engine room but not on the bridge? The engine room they stopped working at 5 o'clock in the evening and start working again at 8 o'clock next morning. Every night, and it worked perfect. But on the bridge, well we stand there. Always been thinking, why is it this way? So I guess that's the start. So you've found a problem and made a lifelong journey about solving. Well, maybe afterwards we can say that, but of course that is not really true. Now it is more into how do we do our ships, our fleet to lower environmental impact? How do we do that? And there autonomous automatisation is coming in very, very strong. That's our goal.

Eja Tuominen:

Let's help our listeners to get a little bit of context. Swedish transport administration and road ferries. What are they?

Erik Froste:

Yeah, Swedish Transport Administration, they are running all the railway, all the roads, and long-term planning for all the transport in Sweden. And we are a small part of it, like 10%. Swedish road ferries. So we are part of the government. So the Swedish road ferries, where I am in charge then, since eight years now, we have 70 double-ended road ferries, something like 60 cars big, 100 meters long. So 70 road ferries divided into 40 different places. We also have four ship repair yards, 800 persons working there 24-7, of course, turn over 120 million euros. But only in Sweden, governmentally owned, and a strong driver going to electric right now.

Eja Tuominen:

I just looked at the TikTok, very reliable source, of course. That Sweden is the country with the most islands in the world.

Erik Froste:

Yeah.

Eja Tuominen:

And that of course means that there would be a lot of road ferries as well.

Erik Froste:

Yes, only in the Archipelago of Stockholm, where I lived and I was working on ships, it's 40,000 islands only in Stockholm. So yeah, there is a lot of islands. And there's a lot of discussion which of the islands should have a governmentally run ferry or which should have something else or which are on their homes.

Eja Tuominen:

In the Swedish system, the ferries are an alternative to a bridge. Exactly.

Erik Froste:

And sometimes, not so often, when there's a lot of people on the island, and so they're going on the ferry more and more, is actually in long term cheaper to building a bridge, and then they do that. We are having one case now in the Swedish West Coast, so maybe in 10 years there is a bridge there instead of the ferry. And there's also automation coming in. If we automate it, it will be cheaper and lower environmental impact, so maybe less bridges and more ferries. And of course, I love ferries.

Eja Tuominen:

What's the ferry operations long-term vision? And how will your division evolve in the coming 10 years?

Erik Froste:

We have a very, very clear strategic plan, what we call vision 45. When we first decided that seven years ago now, we will go to zero emissions, reducing the climate impact, reducing CO2 emission, and reducing everything else, also in the environment, noise and things like that. Going to zero. During the way, we of course learned a lot. If it starts with electric, you get digitalization almost for free. And when you have the digitalization, then you can go to automaticise or to go in autonomous. So there are steps there. And if you have 70 vessels, basically we have to transform two, two and a half every year, otherwise we will fail.

Eja Tuominen:

What's the benefit of automation and autonomy in ferry operations?

Erik Froste:

I'll tell you a little story. Eleanor, she is with let's say 88 years old. She's living on an island. She's born there, been living there all her life. Her husband was a fishing man, he died 10 years ago. So her kids are also born there, but her grandkids are not born there, but still coming there in the summer. Still have a ferry 24-7, and not so many people living there anymore. And unfortunately, also Eleanor now is getting ill. So she needs help from society. So twice a day there coming people to help her taking her medicine, maybe cleaning the house and so on. And now she's getting even worse. So now she needs help also in the night time. And unfortunately, our service ends at 22 or 23 in the evening and starts again at 6 o'clock in the morning. So what will happen now? The society will force Eleanor to move ashore to her elderly home, not where she has been living 88 years. So the last years of her life, she has to live somewhere else because the service is not there. We could go, but there is lack of sailors and there is lack of money. If we manage to do what we are doing right now, if we have the ferry in place, they're going electric, running them autonomous or from a remote operation center is basically costing nothing. So letting Eleanor stay in the last years in London or her beloved little island, that's our goal with autonomous. Increasing the service for the people living out there, and the same time reducing the energy consumption, reducing the impact on the environment.

Eja Tuominen:

So increasing service level at the same time as decreasing the environmental impact.

Erik Froste:

But also, our routes are quite short. So basically, 50% of the energy consumption is from the manure, docking. We strongly believe, and we have proved that the algorithm can do that better than unfortunately our best captains. We have been doing echo shipping, educating our captains 20 years soon. And every time you see the same thing, the week they have done the echo shipping is going down 30%, the savings. Perfect. Everyone is really happy. But it's going back up again. But if we do this automatically, we can reduce it down to 30% and stay there and hopefully continue going down.

Eja Tuominen:

You mentioned something about not being able to staff easily.

Erik Froste:

That is a problem. There will lack of 100,000 sailors and that will increase and lots of benefits in automation.

Eja Tuominen:

The disadvantages and risks are there?

Erik Froste:

Of course, there are risks. We can also see that it's taken longer time than we expected a few years ago. But the idea is to reduce the risks. If we compare once again with the automotive industry, with the cars. I'm driving a Volkswagen and it had lane assist. I can basically not go into the ditch or go into the other side. Parking, the car is peeping all over. And on ships and vessels, we have nothing like this. Just the last weekend was two groundings around the Swedish coast. One was a drunk sailor and the other was falling asleep. We are humans. These things happen. And not only are there accidents and oil spillage, also the poor person, even if he falls asleep, he will bear this with the rest of his life and not feeling very good about it. I'm so convinced that going more automatic system and continuous go to autonomous will be safer.

Eja Tuominen:

The development plan to have new ferries, approximately two ferries a year. How does the plan align with the vision? And what are the key milestones? Because it's not only about ferries, is it?

Erik Froste:

Ferries is one thing, of course. The system on board. One thing we are doing very hard now is doing a modular thinking. So we have the same thing on every vessel. We need, for instance, having the digital twin ashore. So before we are pushing out a new software update, you have to test on the digital twin. Like a computer, we have to stop thinking the vessel like a standalone vessel. This is part of something big, it is part of a fleet, and we have to do it exactly the same with all of them. Otherwise, we one Monday morning will not have one vessel that doesn't work, we will have 12. And I would like to avoid it.

Eja Tuominen:

So it's the actual ferry, the hardware, and then it's the software, and then it's the people. How is the change management of the people planned?

Erik Froste:

When we start talking about this five years ago, I thought the protest would be much higher, much more. But we are very clear. Just like the average age of our vessel, 38 years, the age of the captains and A-Bs on board are also very high. I have standing on scene in front of my people, my 800 people, and saying, we will not fire anyone or you due to this, because we will need you all. But of course, we will not employ so much many new ones. Even with the automation, moving the captain ashore, we will have hard-finding skilled people in the future. We have 40 different lines. We are saying we will not fire anyone, but maybe you are not fit to work with this new stated arts vessel. Maybe you have to move back to someone diesel standalone vessel. Yeah, okay, that will happen. It's a big change.

Eja Tuominen:

So you have started implementing the plan already.

Erik Froste:

Oh, yeah. The first one is in Sweden in July. And that is a vessel with auto docking, auto crossing, auto mooring. It will have an anti-collision system that will be working maybe not 100 days one. But this is the autonomous system. We make a difference with the system and then autonomous vessel. Because that is something else. Taking ashore the crew and getting the permission from the various authorities that will take some time.

Eja Tuominen:

Can you share us a little bit with the technical solutions that you have chosen?

Erik Froste:

For us, basically, we have bought um basic double end ferry from a shipyard in the Netherlands. We have two now building, first one coming up soon, and then an option of two more. So we have been having very close work in relation with Kongsberg. We and Kongsberg have learned we never thought it was easy, but it was even harder. So we have some hard discussions and we had some great discussion with all parties.

Eja Tuominen:

Are there some lessons learned that you'd like to share?

Erik Froste:

Oh, yeah, there's so much to learn. I mentioned the digital twin. We see it so extremely important because we are operational, we we know what's gonna happen. But when you talk about other, they didn't see that as a big problem. Oh, we solved it. No, we don't solve it later on. And also, I mean the vessel will be autonomous from the beginning, but will be crew on board, it will be crew on board for years. It is new, and I'm glad that there are people and companies that are willing to do this. We are governmentally owned, the biggest ship owner in Sweden. If not, we are doing it, and if not, we are managing, then I don't see who anyone can manage this later on. We had to do this, otherwise, no one will.

Eja Tuominen:

I would approach that setup from a different angle. Usually the private u owned companies are faster in adapting innovations than u government-owned. So I heard. How did this happen in Sweden? That government is first out.

Erik Froste:

Well, it wasn't really an extraction from the government. We, we started. We saw so many benefits. Really, it was for a little for the greater good. We understood this will cost, this will go complicated, and we will cry a few nights. But seriously, if someone got to do it, we should do it. We had the power and we have the possibilities.

Eja Tuominen:

As an advice to other people working with their governments, what's your piece of advice to make this happen?

Erik Froste:

Painting up the picture. And not being afraid, of course. It would be so much easier to just continue with standalone diesel and this. Then you can imagine what kind of people we are employing now because they think this is so fun.

Eja Tuominen:

So the first ferry will be soon delivered. When it will be sailing and where?

Erik Froste:

It will be sailing in Stockholm Archipelago. We took it closer to our head office where our shipbuilders are living, so to say, because that's easier. Vacation is important up here. So taking over a vessel in July is not a good idea. So we went uh we wait until end August, September, probably starting. But already now, when she comes up, a we start trying the docking, start trying the charging robot and things like that.

Eja Tuominen:

And uh the staff who will be operating it, have they already started their training?

Erik Froste:

Oh yeah, oh yeah. This is interesting. I am captain. I learned diesel engine, even if I am working on deck, I learned something about diesel engine. And still, according to the STCV convention, the international legislation, what you're supposed to be educated in shipping. Um, there is diesel, there is nothing about battery management system. So, oh yeah, we have had people over here from Norway, but we believe strongly in a train trainer. So now we have our own and educating them a lot. So those people, I think it's 25, something like that, have been going this training now, they are so dedicated, they really look forward to have this vessel. So they will be dedicated. Um, but I've also been telling them that they will also be crying a few nights and shouting about something that doesn't work because that's how it is with new technology.

Eja Tuominen:

What are the challenges in transitioning the people?

Erik Froste:

If the ferry is working as supposed, then basically, when the morning we start with pressing a button and then we go from A to B and B to A and so on. That will of course not be the case in the beginning. But maybe vessel number 3, 4, or 7 will be like that. What kind of personnel will be on board doing that extremely boring job? One new job is, of course, sitting in the remote operation center, taking captains probably to the remote operations centers and sitting there, even more boring work.

Eja Tuominen:

You have 800 people in your staff, and there's of course a big transition with the ferries and with the software and how to operate and with the propulsion from diesel to electric. How do you see the skill transition? Upskilling and reskilling people. What's your plan?

Erik Froste:

The big change is really from diesel to battery. And that you need to have knowledge about elektricity in a total different way. Not like elektrician, but still understanding. This is affecting the engines lite different. There is a little new way of driving it. And also, of course, you must learn how charging robot works. And then we know that from a vessel 30 years ago we had maybe 20 - 25 sensors. The last nya ship, six years it was 1500 sensors. Now it is 5 000. Så taking care of all this information, data and doing something good of it. And at same time not overload some poor operator somewhere. That is , it will be interesting. Of course, we will use AI in order to find anomalies and things, but that is not set up yet. We are in the middle of it, and nobody has settled up it. This is the well, disadvantages and the fun thing being the first one. But this is where the Nor shipping is coming. So we are speaking with all the big ones, and we are learning new things, and they are learning new things. We are telling them to okay, this is what we have done, we should have done this. So we strongly recommend you do this. For soon we will have purchases or procurement around the six new vesseles, and we like you to join, but then you have to go that direction. But but it's happening so many things now and it's going so fast. Even if we might be the first one right now, in the top three at least. In a couple of years there will be many on the same level. I'm quite sure.

Eja Tuominen:

So, what is your short term vision in this disruption and transformation that is happening with ferries on a bigger scale? Sweden is in your hands. When being here in Norshipping and listening to others, where do you see where we are in that transition?

Erik Froste:

We were sitting with Furuno, Japan. And really, they are they had a totally different structure. They have 50 private companies working together in a governmental umbrella during the autonomous system. And learning from them was so interesting. And they also learned from us. We were sitting one and a half hour just talking. How they are thinking, how we are thinking, how much they have done already, which we have not had time to ,or forgot, and other things that we have been doing. It was extremely interesting between the cooperation between Sweden and Norway and s o on. So it is maybe like fairs like this. We can make a major step for it. But there is Skandinavian up her. The Norway and Sweden and some Denmark and Finland as well. It is really here it's happening. The four or three cases for autonomous shipping that really are autonomous or will be within a year or something, they are in Norway and Sweden. So, and we have very good work in relation with all of them. That's the good thing of being a public or I mean governmental company. We are not a competitor. So we can be extremely open, and we are that with everyone who wants to work with us. We are having meetings with private companies because they know we are not competing with them. And also during this new security situation where Russia started the war with Ukraine. There is not on anyone's plans to sell out our service to the private sector. We will stay governmental. Five years ago, that could be the plan, but not at all. So we can work with everyone. That's good.

Eja Tuominen:

Public private collaboration traditions that we have here have been beneficial for thriving making this innovation to thrive autonomous mari time.

Erik Froste:

I I believe that very, very strongly. Also, we are working with the Norwegian universities with Swedes, Chalmers and Stockholm university and high schools in Sweden, and together with the private sector. It could be a Kongsberg, or it could be Norwegian Electrisystem, it could be ABB or Wärtsilä or whatever. We are all working together and we're all spreading quite much information to each other. I think that's really one of the key factors. Why the Scandinavian countries are where we are, not only in shipping.

Eja Tuominen:

So, what's your relation to the regulatory landscape?

Erik Froste:

We are an authority, so maybe we can understand that a little better than other people, but probably not so much. When we met them six years ago and started talking about this, showing them what we are planning, our vision 45, what we will do, that this year we will have a autonomous ship. Okay, how do we do? They said, no, that is not possible. That will not happen. We have no fundings for that. Okay, so we went home to our offices and started what do we do? What do we do? Okay, we have to prove for them that this is safer than the normal way. So basically what we are doing now, these new buildings, it's a full skale test. So two vessels, extremly expensiv fullscale test. And we are doing the same with smaller ones. And we have Torghatten doing the same i Riddarfjärden in Stockholm. Och vi har other companies here in Norway doing the same. We will prova to the authorities that autonomous vessesl are safer than manned by personnell. When vi have buildt the safety keys, it will blir hard för dem to say no. We are setting up the system and showing this will work. Who can say we cannot go full autonomous then.

Eja Tuominen:

The other one that sometimes creates question when we talk autonomous is insurance companies .

Erik Froste:

We have , we don't have we have internal insurers. No? No problem. Thank you. Next question. The next question. But that's seriously. If we can prove that this is safer, but we are very seldom more than 10 minutes away from shore. If there's a fire on both our vessels, we go to shore and we call the fire brigade. We are not in the Middle Atlantic. So of course there's a difference. But once again, that is why we have to do this.

Eja Tuominen:

In case of collision, the question of responsibility, how have you thought about it. r

Erik Froste:

Yeah, I mean we will always be responsible. Earlier it is the captain on board, but now the captain of the future will be on shore. It will still be the captain. Our ships are doing nine knots. That's 16 kilometers per hour. It is not 110 km per hour as a freeway.

Eja Tuominen:

So what is the next steps in your plan? You have one ferry being delivered soon and taken into use after some holidays, big thing here in Nordics. Another one being built, and an option for two more.

Erik Froste:

Then we have two more bigger procurements: one on the Swedish East Coast, six vessels, and then we have another batch of procurement with five vessels on the Swedish West Coast in the Gothenborg area. So we have two big lots. These are new buildings. But at the same time, we also have retrofit of one there and one there, one inside a lake. So smaller ones, but the bigger ones, they are where we are really aiming for full autonomies.

Eja Tuominen:

If you compare a bridge and a ferry, the two solutions connecting an island and the mainland, what's the difference?

Erik Froste:

If you have a summer house there, it's great with a ferry. But you if you live on the island and have to go to your office every day, then probably you prefer a bridge. But that has also changed during the pandemic. Now people are only going to the office two, three days a week. So now they may be in more favour of the ferry.

Eja Tuominen:

Could autonomy make it more pro for the ferry?

Erik Froste:

Yeah, it will be cheaper. So absolutely. Building a bridge is a huge impact on the environment. The concrete, the CO2 emissions. It takes many, many many years of our ferries to do the same one. So if we can do electric ferries, autonomy reducing the crew on board and increased safety, there will not probably not be so many new bridges in Sweden. Hopefully, we can get ferries to more islands actually. When I'm in the Friday afternoon going to my summer place, close to Stockholm on one hour's drive. That is great. Coming out there and the lawn is already moved. I don't have to start with doing that. There, the autonomous or the system automatisation is perfect. But also every now and then, maybe every third time I'm coming out, then my beautiful little uh remote lawner is in the ditch or got stuck somewhere. So even the autonomous things they need a little love. They need a hug now and then.

Eja Tuominen:

So we end this episode into a very lovely note of hugs are needed even in the autonomy industry.

Erik Froste:

Exactly.

Eja Tuominen:

You have been listening to an episode with Erik Froste, he is the CEO of the Swedish Road Ferries. Thank you for listening.

Arild Tjomsland:

Thank you for letting me come. Thank you. To our listeners, thanks so much for tuning in. Join us again for the next episode of the Autonomy Journals brought to you by SAMS, the Norwegian Innovation Cluster for Autonomous Mobility and Transport Systems. Autonomy. In Norway, we do it.

Eja Tuominen:

We are looking forward to sharing the next episode with you. If you like the sound of this, please subscribe to the podcast and follow the Autonomy Journals on Spotify and other channels. We'd love to hear from you. Tell us what you'd love to hear more about around autonomy. Because in Norway, we do it.