E25 – The Art and Science of Economic Development, with Heather Gramm, CEcD

What happens when you shift from serving one community to supporting dozens?

In this episode, Heather Gramm, CEcD, reflects on her transition from the public to the private sector. She shares the learning curves, the surprises, and how she’s applying both the art and the science of economic development in fresh, meaningful ways.

Key Takeaways:

• How Heather’s sons helped her see workforce development through a new lens
• The biggest surprises Heather encountered after leaving the public sector
• How ongoing learning and mentorship—from organizations like MEDA—shaped Heather’s career evolution
• Why staying connected across local, state, and national networks makes your work more impactful

About the Guest:

Heather Gramm is a certified economic developer and the VP of Strategy at PPR Strategies. With over 20 years of expertise across municipal, county, and state economic development, she brings a deep understanding of what it takes to transform communities through strategic economic development to the PPR Strategies team. Learn more about her on our website (pprstrategies.com/about-us/heather-gramm).

The EDO Breakthrough podcast is brought to you by PPR Strategies. PPR Strategies is a strategic consulting firm working specifically with EDOs and other place-based organizations. We share the unique stories of communities through communications, strategic planning, marketing, media relations, and more.

Visit us at pprstrategies.com/edobreakthrough to learn more and to submit a question for a future episode.

Produced and edited by SpeakEasy Productions.

Transcript

Sandy Dubay [00:00:04]:
Welcome to Edo Breakthrough, the podcast where we tackle economic development challenges head on. From small towns to bustling cities, every place has its own hurdles to overcome. The Edo Breakthrough podcast creates an environment of collaboration, innovation and understanding where we can share our real life challenges and brainstorm solutions. I'm your host, Sandy Dube, a certified economic developer and founder of PPR Strategies. Each week we'll be welcoming a different brilliant place based mind to talk through real life economic development challenges that have been shared with us by you, our gracious listeners. This week I'm chatting with PPR Strategies VP of Strategy, Heather Gramm. Heather, could you introduce yourself to our listeners?

Heather Gramm [00:01:02]:
Sure. Thanks so much for having me this morning, Sandy. I'm excited for our conversation. So, I'm Heather Gramm. I'm VP of Strategy at PPR Strategies. I've been in economic development for a little over 20 years, had the opportunity to work at the city level, at the county level, at the state level, and have a lot of different experiences through that work. Earned my certification early on in my career, which was really important and transformative to my professional growth and career. So I joined PPR Strategies about nine months ago and have really been loving the team and getting to know life in the private sector, which I'm sure we'll talk a little bit more about today.

Sandy Dubay [00:01:49]:
I love it. So I don't know if I've talked about you in previous episodes of the podcast, Heather, but yes, as you know and some of our listeners know that you and I have been friends for close to that 20 plus years, which is pretty cool. We are just so excited to have had you as a member of the team. We both obviously worked in the public sector, but you worked in it for those full 23 years. I was out of it a few years ago and before starting the company. So I'm curious and I'm sure our listeners would love to hear people I know ask you all the time, why? Why did you make this move? What were you thinking, crazy lady? What would you like to. How do you answer that question?

Heather Gramm [00:02:33]:
Yeah, no, it's. It's a great question and it is one I get all the time. And I will say that for me, after 20 some years in the public sector, I really came to realize that I've done a lot of different things. I've had a lot of different experiences in community development and traditional economic development. And I wanted to be in a role and in a place where I could really apply all of those skills and have a bigger impact. Working for the state of Maryland is impactful it has a big impact statewide. But the opportunity to work with different communities, I think, is really where some magic can happen. You really get to apply all of those things that you've learned, but in unique ways that really match the character of those communities.

Heather Gramm [00:03:33]:
And it's just a completely different experience. And. And it just felt like the right time to kind of flex new muscles and learn new skills and grow personally and professionally by making that jump to the private sector. And I'm really glad that I did.

Sandy Dubay [00:03:49]:
That's awesome. One of the things that, Heather, you and I joke about and I mentioned again recently was when we had a recruiter doing ppr, I had hired a recruiter to just identify some talent. And so if anybody is listening and thinking, we're always looking for the best new talent that's out there or the best talent that's out there, it might be interested in joining the team. So I'd be curious of that to have that conversation. But a couple of years ago, the recruiter had identified you and reached out to you, and I laughed and we laughed and said, well, at least they got the algorithm right. And at that time, at that time, you weren't. You weren't ready to leave. You know, you were assistant Secretary for Business and Industry sector development in the Maryland Department of Commerce.

Sandy Dubay [00:04:38]:
That was a big thing. It was a lot. And I know I have certainly respected and enjoyed seeing your career growth. But you're right. Coming into this interesting private sector company that's able to support all of these public, nonprofit, different types of communities and organizations, you're right. We do get to kind of flex the muscles a little bit differently. And when we work outside of one particular state or can tap in on different regions and things like that, it can be personally and professionally rewarding.

Heather Gramm [00:05:22]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think when you even working at the statewide level, when you get very niched into the work that you're doing, and sometimes you have to take a step back and widen your lens, broaden your lens, and I think this role has allowed me to do that as well. Right. And I used to say that one of the things I loved about economic development was that it was something different every day, and I find that to be true. Again, you know, back at PPR Strategies, because our clients are so different, and we get to do something a little bit different every day, and I love that.

Sandy Dubay [00:06:01]:
I was a little concerned when I first started, like, the real focus about 15, 20 years ago on economic development, thinking that, you know, it was going to be hard to differentiate it was going to be, you know, too weirdly competitive. But you're right. Every community and. Or. Or office has different strengths that they want to do in house and then things that they want or need some outside support. So it's fun being able to do kind of flex one muscle with one community or organization and then work on something totally different for another.

Heather Gramm [00:06:42]:
Yeah, absolutely. I love it.

Sandy Dubay [00:06:44]:
What have you found as some of the biggest surprises for you in working across communities, working across states? What has that process been like for you?

Heather Gramm [00:06:57]:
There's definitely been a little bit of a learning curve, of a mind shift around how you have to adjust yourself and your thinking as you move from working with one client to the next. And so work is a lot more varied. And I think that it has surprised me at the variety of clients that PPR works with communities of all sizes and being reminded that even though every place is unique and has its own character and authenticity, and there's also a lot of similarities between communities in terms of some of the challenges they face and the opportunities that they can embrace, and just figuring out how to do that in a way that matches that authenticity and character of that community. That's where the differences come in and where the magic happens. So it's been fun and it's been an interesting. I don't know if I would call it a surprise, but a reminder of things that I had learned early in my career that I kind of. Kind of forgot until I stepped back into this role and saw it up close, you know?

Sandy Dubay [00:08:15]:
Yeah, it is different. And I think you're right. Sometimes we just. We're like, keeping the hamster wheel moving, you know, constantly and oftentimes need to take pause for a second. And I always say, like, I always go for a walk if I need to change my mindset, if I need to think about something different. That can be a reset. Sometimes it takes a little longer for a reset. If it's like a real big thing, maybe that's when you need a vacation or you need a day off or you need a job change or to work on a new project that gets you thinking, learning, looking through it with a different lens.

Sandy Dubay [00:08:56]:
While we're recording this, you're in Maryland, and I'm actually outside of Dallas, Texas, at the Texas Economic Development Council meeting, where I spoke yesterday. And it was interesting this morning listening to, you know, these Texas economic developers kind of talk about what they've got going on and their structure and, you know, the. The cities and their, you know, EDCs that they have and, you know, Strong energy, power, conversation. And you know, there's so much that is so similar to, you know, really anywhere, USA or anywhere in the globe. But how we apply it, how we partner, how we, you know, choose to collaborate and then are able to structure a deal or support our entrepreneurs can be so varied.

Heather Gramm [00:09:54]:
Yeah.

Sandy Dubay [00:09:55]:
And that's kind of, that is a little bit of that kind of art and science of economic development, which we also been talking about a lot lately.

Heather Gramm [00:10:04]:
Absolutely, absolutely. There science, there's a foundation, there are the things that really are, you know, those essential skills and tools in the economic development profession. But so much of it is art. And that's something that you have to learn by, by doing and experiencing over your careers, how to apply that and see the magic happen on the art side of things, you know.

Sandy Dubay [00:10:27]:
Yeah, it's, it's interesting. So I'm, you know, obviously you and I kind of have been ingrained in our entire professions as just like a deep seated love for all things economic development. How would you say you bring kind of your own version of energy and passion to projects that you're taking on?

Heather Gramm [00:10:50]:
It's a really great question because I'm not really sure until we started having some of these conversations that I really knew what that looked like. Do I have energy and passion? And the truth is I do. Right. And in a lot of ways it's easy and natural because I am so truly passionate about the work that we do in economic development. And it gets me excited every time I start thinking about creative new ways to support communities and really help them grow and thrive. I think you just have to remind yourself every day about why you do the, the work that you do, why it's important, what that impact is, and bring your enthusiasm for the profession and for the work into every community and client that you work with. And like I said, just believe so much in the work that we do. It's really an easy thing to wake up every day and be like, I'm going to get excited about this thing that we're working on today because it truly is exciting.

Sandy Dubay [00:11:58]:
Yeah. And you know, it's interesting. I've been thinking about the next generation, you know, and career opportunities and a community and you know, between, you know, your boys are about the same age as Tabitha and you know, so we've got these, you know, 20 somethings that are working and so helping communities to create opportunities for that next generation or, you know, current generations to be having a place where they can live and work and add value and be feel, have that sense of Community and sense of, like, belonging and place is so interesting. I'm curious, and I'm going to deviate from some of our prepared questions for a second. And I'm curious, like, what your kids and, you know, think about. What do the boys think about when you talk about economic development? I'm convinced Tabitha still has no idea what I do. She just knows that I travel a little bit and I work all the time, and I try to have fun when I'm doing it. Like, literally, I should have her on this podcast to get, like, her insights.

Sandy Dubay [00:13:05]:
But I'm curious, you know, over the years, you know, you've been at city, county, state levels and now are working cross states, cross projects and other ways, what are your boys think?

Heather Gramm [00:13:17]:
I would have to agree with you. I don't know that my boys know what I do still right there. They're 23 and 25, and I can remember when they were. When they were younger and I was working at the. At the city level, you know, we would go out shopping for school clothes or we'd go out for dinner or to grab a cup of coffee or some ice cream, and everywhere we went, of course, I knew a lot of people, right. I was very ingrained in that community. And they just would roll their eyes and say, oh, mom's not going to talk to somebody again. Mom, is there anyone you don't know here? And I'm like, well, it's because of my job.

Heather Gramm [00:13:51]:
And so I think all that they know is because of the work that I do, I get to work very closely in communities, and I know a lot of people, and they probably know that I spend a lot of my time talk. When I get home, I'm like, I need some quiet time. Everybody. Nobody talk to me, because I've been talking all day. And. Yeah, but it has been interesting. As they have grown up, both of them actually chose rather than to go into college and pursue, you know, a degree, they both chose the apprenticeship path in construction. And they're doing fabulous.

Heather Gramm [00:14:30]:
You know, they're living on their own. They, you know, they've bought their own homes. And it's been a great reminder to me. That's kind of what we've been talking so much about, right, in workforce development is the different career paths and how you find your way and that college isn't right for everybody. And I just. I remember thinking as they were graduating from. From high school, I thought, oh, maybe college isn't right for my kids, too. And it was like one of those moments where the light Bulb kind of goes off and what you talk about and preach every day in your work matches up with your personal life and what's happening with your own kids.

Heather Gramm [00:15:12]:
And it's like, that's kind of cool. And I can now say, you know, in a very real way, from experiences to people, it's okay. If college isn't the path for your kids, there's a lot of different places, you know, directions that their careers can go.

Sandy Dubay [00:15:28]:
So.

Heather Gramm [00:15:28]:
So that was a really interesting kind of intersection of work life and home life. Watching them take that path, that's pretty awesome.

Sandy Dubay [00:15:37]:
Yes. To know that it, it works and it's, it's there and it's an option for them. Instead of forcing them to do what society told them at one point was the only thing that they could have done and they would have just wasted money and time and, you know, been miserable. Instead they were able to kind of more directly do something very hands on, you know, very. Yeah. Contributing to this, this development, growth space that we're in, also kind of helping to build the future. Literally.

Heather Gramm [00:16:12]:
Literally. Yeah. Working on some very cool construction projects. And then of course, you know, both of them are working on like data center projects, which is a huge topic of conversation in this region around data centers. And so every time I have these conversations with clients or whatever it is around the data center hot topic, I'm like, yeah, well, you know, my boys are building them right now. So I'm personally very happy that there are data centers to keep them busy. So.

Sandy Dubay [00:16:43]:
Yeah, and isn't that funny because Tabitha obviously took a different route and did go to college, but is now, I'm convinced, working. I'm going to be working with your boys at some, in some capacity on a data center project as well. So she went to college, but still, you know, ended up back in the construction boots and you know, the steel toed shoes and the hard hats and is muddy every single day.

Heather Gramm [00:17:04]:
So love that.

Sandy Dubay [00:17:06]:
Oh, well, kind of shifting back to the stuff. Although I think we could talk about, you know, kids all day long, but I don't know if our listeners want to hear about that. But in, you know, part of what we do, you know, at PPR in terms of helping communities to identify figure out, you know, their, their unique assets, their unique strengths, creating that, you know, going back to a swat, you know, your strengths, your weaknesses, your opportunities and threats, you know, figuring out where you can and truly thrive. Can you talk a little bit about kind of that discovery process for helping a community to come to some of that identification and Realization, Yeah, sure.

Heather Gramm [00:17:56]:
So strategy work is one of the things that I really love doing with communities. And you know, part of that discovery process. Yes, there's a lot of data that you want to dig through and understand workforce and population and demographics and all of that great stuff. But I think like we talked about before, the science and the art, kind of where the art comes in is really taking time to listen. Right. So part that discovery process is really spending time with that community, having meaningful discussions in focus groups and, you know, kind of one on one conversations with the key players in that community. And through those conversations, you start to pull out kind of the things that don't show up necessarily in the data, but that are assets maybe that they haven't thought about before that are strengths that they haven't thought about before. And you know, it's not just about having an asset in the community.

Heather Gramm [00:19:02]:
You can have a university or, you know, federal facility. A lot of communities have a university or a federal facility or whatever that asset might be. What makes what you have unique and different that you can build on. And you know, that's part of that discovery process is talking through the things that are unique about the assets in that community and really pulling on those threads and figuring out how you can then leverage that in a way that matches what the community envisions for itself and how the community wants to grow. Because not every community wants to grow in exactly the same way. And so you have to tailor those strategies to align with those growth goals and what the community sees itself being in 10 years and 15 years and 20 years. And that discovery process is really important to understanding not just your SWOT analysis or the assets in the community, but getting a real sense of where those communities values lie and how they see themselves. So that when you get to the strategy conversation, you can match it all up.

Heather Gramm [00:20:18]:
In the art of economic development.

Sandy Dubay [00:20:21]:
It is interesting because I hear you talk about the community's input and listening and things like that. And we're obviously, oftentimes we're working with the economic development director as a lead or, you know, whatever that organization might be as a lead. But they are just one voice. They might be the convener, they might be the one that is, you know, kind of spearheading something, but they are not the sole voice and sole opinion of what the current landscape or the future certainly could be. And figuring that out. I love what you said about, you know, just listening to others, but making sure that the others individuals and enough individuals of variety can have a voice and feel heard in that process is so important.

Heather Gramm [00:21:12]:
Yeah. And really making sure that through those conversations, to your point, there's a lot of diverse needs in the community and you have to make sure that those voices are being heard so that, you know, you really, at the end of the day, come up with a strategy or outcomes that the whole community can buy into and feel like is like, yes, that is exactly what we were thinking would be good for our community. And that discovery process helps build that consensus, if you will, or build that buy in at the community level.

Sandy Dubay [00:21:49]:
Yeah. My mind went to. I think that communities have been doing a better job. I think we in economic development have been doing a better job in some recent history, but we certainly have room to improve. But making sure that all of we're not just inviting people to the table that have the same opinions that we do and have the same perspectives and background, but getting out of our comfort zone a little bit and, you know, engaging with other church communities that we don't tap into all the time, other, you know, community groups, ages, skill sets, demographic, you know, race, gender, all the things, even segments of, of a community, if you're in a county, making sure that you're getting some of those more rural, not just city center focused voices and opinions.

Heather Gramm [00:22:38]:
Yeah, absolutely. It's really important.

Sandy Dubay [00:22:41]:
Yeah. Cool. Okay. So, you know, one of my favorite topics is professional development and kind of all things support. And you've obviously, you know, we've known each other and have worked together and stayed connected, but I think mita, the Maryland Economic Development association, has been a pretty stronghold for both of us in our careers as a support base. And, you know, obviously listeners may or may not know that we, you know, have been working with MITA. They've been a client of PPR Strategies for almost 20 years. I think November, October, November will actually officially be 20 years that we've been supporting MITA, which is so amazing.

Sandy Dubay [00:23:21]:
But you've been, you know, President, Past President, MITA's first Rising Star Award recipient, which was amazing. Can you talk about, you know, just your experience with MITA and, you know, your kind of thoughts and how that organization has helped you evolve as a professional over the years?

Heather Gramm [00:23:45]:
Absolutely. I, I had been a member of mita for probably 20 years and that organization being a part of a statewide organization like that, especially when early in my career I was again working at that city level, helping to broaden that lens, to give that statewide perspective, to be able to come together with other colleagues that are in different communities facing maybe similar challenges and be able to hear about creative ways that they're solving those challenges, the networking and connecting with colleagues. But NITA also played a huge part in just my professional development, which people who know me know that I am passionate about professional development and lifelong learning and a huge cheerleader for the Certified Economic Developer certification through iadc. And I was able to take a lot of those classes through IADC very early on through the Lofton Scholarship program that MITA offers, which helps cover costs for professional development. So that was really early on, very supportive of that. And then just watching the evolution. You mentioned the Rising Star Award, and that was seven years ago now, eight years ago, if you can believe it. So watching NITA also build this Young Leaders group, which is so exciting for me to see these new young professionals coming together and getting integrated with the economic development community in Maryland, I think faster and easier because of the connections that they're able to make through MITA and the Young Leaders Group.

Heather Gramm [00:25:43]:
I've aged out of the Young Leaders Group, but it was really important, you know, for me, early again, early in my career, when I was younger, to make those connections through mita. So I highly encourage other economic development professionals. Get involved with your statewide association. It can have a big impact personally and professionally.

Sandy Dubay [00:26:08]:
I think I've shared on the podcast, but I know I haven't shared with you on the podcast, but you were one of two certified economic developers during a training when I was saying my spiel about how my biggest career regret was that I was not certified, and you said, sandy, it's not too late. You could still do that. I'll never forget it. It was in July 2022, and gosh darn it, you planted that seed. And I ended up sitting for the exam and, you know, a year later, and, you know, May of 2023 and passed. And yeah, so I. I thank you. Thank you for encouraging me and.

Sandy Dubay [00:26:55]:
Or not just not discouraging me, you know, but really encouraging me. If you hadn't planted, you know, got me thinking about that potential, I never would have done it, and I would have still been living that old story.

Heather Gramm [00:27:06]:
Well, I just, I was so excited when you decided to take that path. It was really, really awesome. So I'm glad I planted the seed, too.

Sandy Dubay [00:27:18]:
So. And before we wrap up, I'd love to hear any advice that you have for maybe somebody that is either new to economic development or is thinking like, oh, maybe this public path isn't the right for me. Maybe working in one community is right. Maybe I need to be able to support lots of different communities. What kind of advice would you give?

Heather Gramm [00:27:39]:
Advice for new economic developers? Again, I think pursuing professional development opportunities, whether you are new to economic development because you're in your 20s, or you're new to economic development because you made a career change, I think that while there is an art to it, there is also a science. So learn it, immerse yourself in it, and seek mentors. You know, I think that I had many informal mentors, I would say, throughout my career, people who really gave me opportunities, gave me good career advice that I might not have even realized was career advice. But having having a mentor, formal or informal, to help you grow professionally and to help you kind of learn your approach to the work that you're doing in economic development and where you want your career path to go is really important. And so I really encourage that piece of it. Professional development and mentorship are two things that I think are really, really important, no matter what phase of your career you're in, quite frankly.

Sandy Dubay [00:28:52]:
Awesome. And then any advice to somebody thinking about, you know, hey, I'm working in the public sector right now in this one community. What's it like? What should I be thinking about? As I might could be considering other career options versus leaving economic development altogether, should I shift into something a more private model?

Heather Gramm [00:29:15]:
Yeah, I think, you know, the first thing I would say if you're thinking about a career change or going into private sector is kind of follow your heart on it, follow your gut. It can feel scary to take that leap, you know, from public to private. But at the end of the day, the work that we're doing is still the same work, and it's just applied in a different way. And so I think that. Don't let it be scary. Don't be intimidated by it. I've had some of my greatest personal growth when I have taken professional leaps that made me feel uncomfortable. So don't be afraid of that discomfort.

Heather Gramm [00:30:00]:
Lean into it.

Sandy Dubay [00:30:02]:
That's awesome. That's awesome. Anything else you'd like to share? Anything that when you woke up this morning, you were like, oh, my gosh, I want to talk about such and such. No, no, don't get into. Oh, my goodness. I hope we don't cut that part. I hope that that stays in. That was so good.

Sandy Dubay [00:30:30]:
And again, this is like a getting out of your comfort zone a little bit and doing a podcast. You know, I think I just put it on your calendar. I don't. I don't know that I even asked. And you were like, why is this on my calendar? Why Are you making?

Heather Gramm [00:30:43]:
Yeah, I think Sandy first asked me if I would be willing to be on her podcast In November of 2024, after I had just joined the team. And I kept saying, you know, maybe someday. Yeah, we'll get to that eventually. And finally, Sandy says, I'm not letting you put this off anymore. I'm just gonna throw it on your calendar and make you do it.

Sandy Dubay [00:31:08]:
Oh, my goodness, I love it. And then, as you know, the final question that we ask all of our guests is, as the podcast title implies, what is your or was your economic development breakthrough?

Heather Gramm [00:31:25]:
Yeah, it goes back a little bit to what I just talked about, I think about stepping out of your comfort zone. I think in my professional growth and career, that breakthrough moment for me was I'd been in the same role in the same organization for 12 years, and I got a call one day from a colleague at the Maryland Department of Commerce who said to me, you know, we've got a job opening as Director of Regional Growth and Retention. You should apply. And I never would have applied if not for that phone call, because I never would have thought I could do it. But I did, and I was offered the job. And it was a huge transition to go from working in a small community to working at the statewide level, never managing people before, to now managing 12 people who worked all across the state, you know, in remote offices. And again, this theme that we've talked about today, that broadening of the lens, that change of perspective is really, I think, what that position and the broadening of the lens to see the different communities across Maryland in a different way gave me the skills and that flexing of the muscle that I think lets me do the work that I do today at PPR Strategies, applying all that we know about economic development to communities of all different sizes and shapes and personalities. So that was probably one of the most impactful decisions I made in my career.

Sandy Dubay [00:33:07]:
Very, very cool. I know people always ask you, and we started this conversation out that way. People always ask you, why did you make this change? And people ask me, how did you get her? How did you get Heather on the team? And I just respond that I am just the luckiest woman in the world. We've got literally the dream team, and I truly could not be happier to have you in the family like this. And for everybody else, some of who have done podcasts, and I would encourage you to listen to Mia or Kayla's podcast. I think we are scheduling one with Sophie soon, and we'll get Meg and Callie on the hook here also. But Heather, thank you. Thank you for trusting us, trusting the team, and for being here and kind of leaning in every single day to support communities in a new and different way.

Sandy Dubay [00:34:06]:
I really appreciate and value you.

Heather Gramm [00:34:08]:
Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. I love what we do well.

Sandy Dubay [00:34:13]:
Thank you for listening to the latest episode of the EDO Breakthrough. If you've gotten to the end and you loved it, we'd love it if you could leave us a review or something or provide any feedback. We obviously love to hear questions topics that you would like covered. Certainly open to that. You can visit PPR strategies.com and click on the Edo Breakthrough podcast link there for other episodes and to, you know, leave your thoughts and ideas. So until next time. Can't wait to talk to you soon.

Sandy Dubay [00:34:52]:
The Edu Breakthrough Podcast is brought to you by PPR Strategies. PPR Strategies, Standing for People and Places Reimagined is a strategic consulting firm working specifically with EDOs and other place based organizations. We share the unique stories of communities through communications, strategic planning, marketing, media relations and more. Visit us at pprstrategies.com and find our contact information in the show. Notes I'd like to give a big thank you to you for listening. Remember, together we are unstoppable.