ADHD in Wedding Business: Taming the Chaos

Have you ever felt like your business would thrive if only your brain would cooperate? For wedding professionals with ADHD, running a successful business often means navigating a mind that feels like "sitting in Times Square trying to do Chinese algebra."

In this illuminating episode, we welcome ADHD systems specialist Caitlin Blair who transforms what looks like chaos into strategic success for neurodivergent entrepreneurs. Drawing from her experience growing up in a household filled with ADHD family members and working with numerous wedding professionals, Caitlin shares insights that go beyond typical productivity advice.

We dive deep into why traditional business systems often fail for those with ADHD, and how "organized chaos" can be harnessed rather than eliminated. Ben shares his personal journey with ADHD, offering a raw glimpse into how it affects decision-making, focus, and the emotional landscape of running a wedding business. From the anxiety that often accompanies neurodivergence to the transformative power of proper diagnosis, we explore the full spectrum of the ADHD entrepreneurial experience.

You'll discover practical strategies tailored specifically for the ADHD mind: visual planning systems, how to approach tools like Trello without getting overwhelmed, time blocking techniques that prevent hyperfocus on single tasks, and methods for tackling those dreaded administrative duties every wedding professional faces. Caitlin also walks us through her process of creating custom systems that don't just organize your business, but actually work with your natural thinking patterns.

Whether you have ADHD yourself or work with someone who does, this episode offers compassionate understanding alongside actionable strategies. The noise in your head doesn't have to be your business's downfall—it might just be your greatest creative asset when channeled properly.

Subscribe to Wedding Empires to continue exploring the unique challenges and opportunities of running a wedding business, and find Caitlin at VirtuallyVitalCo to learn more about her specialized services for neurodivergent entrepreneurs.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to ADHD in Business
• 3:42 Caitlin's Journey to Supporting ADHD Entrepreneurs
• 6:49 Understanding the ADHD Experience
• 9:34 Workflow Systems for Neurodivergent Minds
• 17:22 Tools and Adaptation Strategies
• 21:37 Handling Tasks You Hate
• 26:22 ADHD, Anxiety and Getting Diagnosed
• 30:47 Time Blocking and Daily Habits

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:28

Hi everyone and welcome back to season five of Wedding Empires. I'm Ben we've got Jack on the right-hand side here and today we're talking about a subject that is close to my heart and close to everything that's buzzing around my head, my house, my world, and that's ADHD. So we've got our lovely friend Caitlin Blair joining us all the way from the US and she's huddling in her house hiding from a storm at the moment. Apparently so is the storm, caitlin. Is that the same as the one that's in all our ADHD heads?

Speaker 2: 1:04

Yeah, I'm sure it's just as loud probably.

Speaker 1: 1:09

So, guys, what Caitlin does is she helps people with adhd in their businesses.

Speaker 1: 1:15

Because if, if any of you out there have adhd or you you work with someone who does, you, you realize that their world can be noisy, it can be messy, it can be a bit chaotic and things can just be generally everywhere in lots of little piles. And this is kind of how we work as people with ADHD and that sort of stuff. So Kaylin is here today to give us some insight into how we can better navigate things, how we can build some systems and stuff in our businesses to help and manage the noise that's in the head, and how we can sort of get around that. She's also going to help with dealing with and manage the noise that's in the head and how we can sort of get around that. She's also going to help with dealing with and working with people that might be ADHDers and that sort of stuff. Strap in for this one I'm likely to get loud and all over the place. Jack's just sitting there looking at me like what's this guy doing?

Speaker 3: 2:12

No, no, no, no.

Speaker 1: 2:12

what thrown this jack has thrown this all to me this morning and said we're not going to do the normal intro, you can just do it. By the way, we're live for the first time in two months anyway. Here we are, so I've just dropped us all in the deep end. Thank you, jack, thank you caitlin, and I'm going to throw it over to you for the first question.

Speaker 3: 2:34

And we're off Absolutely. Thanks, Ben Caitlin, so great to have you here.

Speaker 2: 2:39

My first question.

Speaker 3: 2:42

Thank you, and I know you're in the middle of a storm. You're all the way over in Virginia. First of all, I guess what was? How did it all come together for you, to kind of go, this is my niche and I'm really good at this, and there's a business in this.

Speaker 2: 2:56

Yeah, so I have three siblings, all of them with diagnosed ADHD and one with ADHD, autism and anxiety. So I have grown up in a household with neurodivergence and one of the first clients when I first started my business, I was just a general virtual assistant, helping like a family friend. She was a wedding violinist, so I was helping her with her CRM, so with her contracts and invoices and things, and she had ADHD and I realized that the way that her brain worked was so much like my sister's and how she needed to see her tasks and it was, like I call it, organized chaos, where there's like to me or like someone from the outside you might see that there's so much happening, there's so much everywhere, but to them it's like, oh yeah, under this piece of paper you'll find this paperclip, blah, blah, blah, like super buried, so they know where everything is in their brain. But it's just so, there's just so much happening. And so then after that I was able to help her organize things around, like with her ADHD, so making sure that tasks were there, but also balancing like not seeing too many tasks, because then you'll get overwhelmed and might not physically be able to do anything. And then, after I'd worked with her.

Speaker 2: 4:17

Somebody very similar to her had a similar issue with her with staying organized and staying on top of tasks, and I've now gotten to the point where, if I'm on a call with someone, I'm like you have ADHD, because I know, like the things that you're talking about and struggling with, like I'm like do you have ADHD? And all of them are like yes, I do, and I'm like okay, so yeah, I've just. That's pretty much how I started was with with her wedding violinist with ADHD, and then I was like I had worked with some other wedding people and I just love the wedding vendors, but then I specifically have been able to help people with ADHD because of her and because of my siblings as well. So, long story short, no, this is great.

Speaker 1: 4:59

Can I paint a picture for everyone? Not to be rude, caitlin, there was a period there where some of you might have seen it. I kind of glazed over because I just went off on another little tangent and I had to come back to what you were saying. Now, for anyone that can't quite get the grasp of what happens, the easiest way I can explain what can go on, as someone with ADHD and that glaze over and everything else Imagine sitting in the middle of a busy Times Square at a desk trying to do Chinese algebra.

Speaker 1: 5:35

Welcome to my world. That's quite often what it feels like. There's noise, there's so many shiny objects and it's really noisy in your head To be able to focus on one thing and to get a specific job done. And if that job is something that you don't like, like if for me it's invoicing, like I put it off and put it off, and put it off and it piles and piles and that's just another thing, so that's what happens, that's what you're dealing with. So if you're speaking to someone and they appear that they glaze over or something like that and that's kind of what they're dealing with in their head, so just to kind of paint that picture so that you know, you get a concept of what we're talking about. And it's not just someone doesn't care, or they're not listening, or it's just they're dealing with so much noise, yeah.

Speaker 3: 6:29

Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1: 6:30

My dog is down there snoring his head off, so I hope you can't hear.

Speaker 3: 6:33

That first question would be, I guess. So now we're like ben, you've explained really well, kind of like, the challenges in the day-to-day of operations. So, caitlin, what would be step one? So they've, they've heard about you, they've come to you and they've gone. I just want to do the photos, like all this other stuff, like the emails and the invoicing and the like. How can I simplify my business, like, where do you, where do you start with that client?

Speaker 2: 6:59

Usually, I will help them and we will go over their workflow, and what I mean by that is um, a workflow is just how to get from step A it, point one, to point two. Uh, and we'll go over every step together of what they need to do. Somebody's filled out a form on their website. What happens? And then, like, we'll go into the details.

Speaker 2: 7:24

I know it's can be a lot for people with adhd, but then after that, after that talk, they're good to go and we can start building that based off of that conversation.

Speaker 2: 7:37

And for them, if they're like, okay, that's great, but how do I do that myself, if I don't want to work with you or hire you? You can map out what I mean by that is, just list out the tasks that you need to do and then you can work backwards from there and don't, like I know people will just get so focused on a tool and then just build out a whole thing in 12 hours and then be like, okay, I'm never touching that again and get so burnt out. So don't be realistic and try to space it out so you don't get burnt out and then you never want to touch that tool again. And I found that that has been really helpful. I'm like, okay, today I'm going to make the email templates that I need, or this month, that's my goal, and then I won't have to make email templates again because they're already made. Yeah, so that's where I would start is just realize what you need done and then work backwards from there.

Speaker 1: 8:33

Yeah, I found that also, as you said, doing lists and stuff, I always try, before I go to bed the night before to to put a list together of the things I need to do the next day, because if I don't do that quite often I'll get into my office in the morning and go what was I supposed to do? And then I just go off on some little journey with something that isn't going to make me money or extend business or something like that. I just, yeah, you're off everywhere.

Speaker 2: 9:07

Yeah, I have found. And if you're looking for a tool or something to help you people with ADHD, something to visually see what you need Because if it's out of sight, out of mind, you're going to forget it exists, if you don't see it, and so that's. Yeah, that's the big thing is having something where you can list out all your tasks but then at the same time, don't list them all, because then you might get just paralysis and you there's like, oh my gosh, there's so much I need to do, I just can't do it. There's a word for it.

Speaker 2: 9:40

I forget what it is, but it can come off as being lazy, but you are neurodivergent, you're not being like. Your brain physically will not allow you to complete those steps. So that's where automations come in, having things that you don't have to do be automated, and so then that's off your task list. You don't have to see that, and that automation I think, is the key for people with ADHD, and being efficient is just have your tool, do it, have something, send that email automatically or add that task automatically, or whatever.

Speaker 1: 10:12

Yep, and it's funny you said the visual component to things. If you sit down in my office and look around the walls, there's visual planners, there's visual step systems all over in my office, because that's what I need as someone.

Speaker 2: 10:28

That's how you're paying for it.

Speaker 1: 10:29

Yeah, I need to see things visually and I thought, oh, it's just because I'm a photographer or whatever, it's just because I'm a creative or whatever. But now I understand that it's because I needed to see things visually, as opposed to, you know, a list of text or numbers or something like that.

Speaker 3: 10:45

Yeah, I imagine something like Trello would be a good. I mean, I'm not somebody who has ADHD, but in a visual way like that, is that the sort of software that you'd move them to. Can you talk me around that, like when you're talking, when you're introducing a better way to manage tasks. Yeah, like what would you recommend? Yeah, I would definitely recommend.

Speaker 2: 11:05

Trello for project management. So all right, if you're a wedding planner, right, I signed the contract. Now what do I need to do? And then Trello for project management. So all right, if you're a wedding planner, right, I signed the contract. Now what do I need to do? And then Trello you can list out all your tasks and keep things organized there.

Speaker 2: 11:23

And what's great with Trello is you can like collapse the list. I know that's confusing because I can't, I'm not showing you, but then it's just like a little line as opposed to seeing everything. So I found that that's helpful, so it's a lot less overwhelming. So there's that if you want to get tech techie, there's also just a planner. Like, if you're, if you're, if you're not, a very tech person, don't push yourself over the edge to try to learn something. Just have a planner where you can list things out, like you were saying, and with your room, how. There's just so much there, which I love. So I would highly recommend. I'm glad that you brought up Trello, because that's the big one that I recommend people for managing their business tasks and things.

Speaker 3: 13:25

Yeah, yeah, I think that would be an obvious one. Yeah, now, when it comes to now, for those of you who haven't used Trello probably Ben, I don't think you've used Trello, have you Maybe with?

Speaker 1: 13:35

me. I don't use anything like that and there is a reason for it. And it goes like Caitlin's nodding head.

Speaker 1: 13:44

She already knows what I'm going to say the reason that I probably should use the CRM of some description and there's been times in my career where I've just gone oh, there's too many weddings, there's too much going on.

Speaker 1: 13:54

I can't juggle it all and if I had something like that then I might have been able to manage it better. But stepping into something like that is new is scary and I personally and I'm sure this is the same for other people we hate change. Once we get comfortable with something like you get comfortable with something and you set up your system for it. It might be a little bit longer than it could be for someone else using automated software, but it's your system, you're comfortable with it, it works for you and you just stick to that because you feel safe in that system. The reason that I haven't gone to some big like ages ago I tried a crm and it kept and it's it's the industry leading, one of the industry leading ones for for photography and it kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger and I just kept going what the, what the?

Speaker 1: 14:40

yeah, eject yeah I didn't even really get into it because it just got too overwhelming, with them adding so much that I just had to reject. And that's why many of us won't jump into something like this because it's new, it's scary, it's confusing and it's just. You need the courage to be able to walk through that door.

Speaker 2: 15:03

Exactly. And also, yeah, know yourself and know like all right, if I try this, is this going to like? Am I going to get super burnt out? Because I'm trying to learn a new system and trying to change everything. So if you feel like that's too much, you can stick with your planner, stick with the notebook and list out things there, like you were saying. But also, yeah, challenge yourself and see. All right, I'm going to test it out for a month, see what happens, see if it's better for me, because you can always go back. It's not written in stone.

Speaker 3: 15:33

When it comes to setting up, like automations, so say, like in its most simplest form, like sending out a reminder to pay or a reminder about an upcoming appointment, or something like that sending out a reminder to pay or a reminder about an upcoming appointment, or something like that Do you ever approach it in a way that you kind of go let's just map it out on paper and build it for them? Yeah, do you? Yeah, cause I imagine something like that would be helpful that they can it's, it's in a visual way that they can understand, but they don't need to, don't need to know the nuts and bolts of it's just going to turn up. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:07

I have an Excel sheet where we'll talk through everything, like, all right, you want to send this email reminder three days before your session, and great, that's on the Excel sheet. I know I need to build that. And then, throughout, because I don't want to just throw them to the wolves and be like, all right, here's your account and your automations, have fun. So, throughout the process of what I'm building, I'll create little videos and be like, all right, this is what it looks like, this is what's going to happen, like how you wanted on the Excel sheet that we did together, this is what it looks like. And then warm them up there.

Speaker 2: 16:36

And then, once everything's done, we have a super fun off-boarding call where I show them everything. And then that's where I'm like if you want to make changes here, you can do this, you can do that, and then they can opt in for 30 day support. And if they want to do that, then they can hop on a call with whenever with me, and be like, great, can you walk me through it again, cause that was just a lot of information? And yeah, so that that's the Excel sheet that I have at the very beginning, where we're like all right, let's talk through every your wedding? All right, great. Do you offer birthday parties? Do you offer portrait mini sessions? Whatever Like? We'll talk about all of that in case if there's custom things here and there for processes. But yeah, the little videos throughout, I try to do it so they feel comfortable with using it once we're done. Yeah, because that can be scary.

Speaker 1: 17:22

Yeah, Having having the videos, like I know when you're creating a system for something, if you can have those little videos, just even like for me to prompt myself.

Speaker 2: 17:32

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:35

Having those little videos to refer back to is such a helpful thing and it just means that with that system, if you step out of that business, you can give that system to someone else and go here, you go, this is what needs to happen, and they can just watch the videos and they can do it, so you don't need to be the one managing it all all the time.

Speaker 2: 17:52

So, yeah, I think systems are so important for this kind of scenario yeah, or even an assistant, to be like all right, great, this is how it works, and then send the videos to your assistant, and then they can send the emails on behalf of you or whatever.

Speaker 1: 18:04

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 18:05

What about when it comes to tasks that they really don't want to do but they have to do? How do you like massage, like do you go okay, like let's do it first thing on a Monday, like when you've got the most in it? I don't know, like, how do you kind of massage that in and make that happen?

Speaker 2: 18:25

I mean, it depends on the person, because sometimes it's more extreme than somebody else, but I will, I'll be like all right. Something that has helped me is I will like hype myself up for it and if it's something that happens like once a month or whatever, I'll reward myself with like a sweet treat. Be like all right, great, I did the thing I did not want to do. I'm going to go get my Starbucks or I'm going to go take a 20 minute nap or whatever. Whatever I feel like is reward, that really helps. But if it's something repetitive, like oh, I hate sending this one email, blah, blah, blah Usually recommend like again, everybody's so different.

Speaker 2: 19:09

Usually what I'll say is first thing in the morning, like you said, and just don't even think about it, just go through the motions, blah, blah, blah, and then hit send or hit blah, blah, blah and if it's that stressful for you, throw your phone like walk away from your desk If you're like it's a stressful email and get away from the situation for a bit and then you can come back. But yeah, it depends on the on the task, depends on the person, but yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:35

One of the one of the greatest tools that I found and I hope this resonates with a lot of other people is, if there's a difficult conversation, that that you need to have a difficult email, something difficult that you need to do just bite the bullet and do it first, just get it done. And there was I can't remember who the author was, but there was a book, an audio book, that was brought out. I think it was called Eat that Frog and it talks about systems and stuff. I can't remember who the author was, but he's quite famous. It's called Eat that Frog and it's about taking on that challenging task first and getting the tough stuff out of the way before you step into the other stuff that you want to do and that sort of thing. So I think it's important that if you have something you don't want to do the tough stuff or the hard conversations just bite the bullet and just do it. I know that's tough and it is a hard thing.

Speaker 1: 20:28

And I guess, if I can go off on a little tangent here, because that sometimes happens, can I that scheduling of things, doing things, taking the first step for things, doing things, taking the first step for things it kind of leads on to the fact that a lot of times people with ADHD also suffer from anxiety, depression, crippling, self-doubt, there's a lot of that. That goes on and, jack, we did a little podcast-y sort of live stream and stuff about that a while back. All of us feel a little bit of self-doubt and a bit of anxiety and stuff going on. You know, all the time. I'm sure with people with hd, with adhd, it it tends to uh, it tends to multiply and because we do fixate on things and there's sometimes you can't get your brain out of a certain thing. So having that and dealing with that, as well as all the noise and stuff, is another challenge that people need to take.

Speaker 1: 21:30

And quite often you'll hear people say look, come and talk to me. I'm here if you need me, my door's always open, and that sort of stuff. They're basing that comment on the assumption that you actually have the courage to walk through that door to ask for help, to go. Hey, I'm just not coping, I'm depressed, I'm whatever. And that then leads into making sure that if you're feeling this and if you're struggling to get things done, there's lots of noise in your head, you're finding there's little piles of things to do all around your house and you're just not productive, that maybe it's time for you to go and see a doctor and take that step and go.

Speaker 1: 22:05

Hey, I think I might be ADHD. Can we go through the process to see if that's a thing, because, I won't lie to you, pretty much everyone that has something like this and has been formally diagnosed, and then, if you want to do it, it's a personal choice to have medication for it that will change your world, because it absolutely has for me and it absolutely has for probably 20 other people that I've come across and that I've helped in this process. So even my beautiful partner Hayley like she, you know I went through first and you know she did the same thing and it's helped her immensely and it answers a lot of questions as to why we do things and what we say and how we do it exactly the anxiety, the depression and that sort of stuff it's, it's a big part of this as well definitely, I think, can we talk about.

Speaker 3: 22:58

Like there's people that suspect that they, you know, have some sort of adhd or neurodivergence or you know, like me, I've got the complex ptsd and and that causes the depression and the anxiety and the overwhelm and all of that. I'm of the opinion it was really helpful to get the diagnosis to kind of go okay, this is what this is. Let me first understand it. What's your opinion, ben? I mean, do you think that's step one, like figure out what it is?

Speaker 1: 23:31

Yeah, so diagnosis, in my opinion, is not a dirty word.

Speaker 3: 23:36

Yeah, me too.

Speaker 1: 23:37

The label ADHD I don't think is anything derogatory, negative or anything like that, because I can confidently say to you, had I have worked out what this was and potentially my parents worked out what this was when I was a kid, I might have done a lot better in school. I might have been a pilot. Now, like I couldn't be a pilot because my grades weren't high enough and I didn't go through year 12 because I just could not do any more school. Like I left in year 10 and I went to the military not do any more school. I left in year 10 and I went to the military. Had I had the help and had the insight into this that I have now via a diagnosis, then I think that would have drastically changed my outcome and my trajectories.

Speaker 1: 24:30

Definitely it's the first step. Go and see your doctor and go hey, tell them what's going on. If you're struggling to get things done, if there's lots of noise in your head, if you've got piles of stuff everywhere, if you're suffering anxiety, depression, crippling, self-doubt, all that sort of stuff, then go and talk to someone and see if there's some way it can help. You don't necessarily need to be medicated. You don't necessarily and this is not medical advice. You don't necessarily need the antidepressants and all that sort of stuff. It might be just a case of one strategic step that can really help you in managing everything day to day and elevate you.

Speaker 3: 25:09

I think too, outside of introducing systems and tools and things like that, what about, like caitlin, have you suggested any other kind of habits you know, like around, um, if they're having a moment like that and it's all too much, or or to just create kind of balance or listen to their body and focus on particular like? I don't know, like, is there something more holistically, outside of the systems, that you've found has helped people facing this?

Speaker 2: 25:35

Yeah, and this is something that you can do. It's really beneficial if you don't like doing what you're doing, If you're doing the admin work when you really want to be taking the photos right now. I recommend doing 20, 25 minutes of work, set a timer and then, after that timer, take a 10 minute break and go stretch, go to the bathroom, eat a snack, whatever, and then get back to it for another 20, 25 minutes. That helps you reset your brain, get you back in the zone A little fresh freshness to your routine. Something else you can do is you can partner that with time blocking.

Speaker 2: 26:14

That sounds like a scary word, but it's like you go on your calendar and you say all right, from 9am to 10am I'm going to be working on sending emails to the people or responding to inquiries, and then during that time, 25 minute timer, 10 minute break, 25 minute timer, all of that. And then from 10 to 11, minute timer, 10 minute break, 25 minute timer, all of that. And then from 10 to 11, I'm going to be editing this client's gallery, and then from 11 to 12, I'm going on lunch and all of that. So you can time out your day, so you know what's going to be happening and also so that way you don't get like super zoned in on a project and then six hours have gone by and you're like crap, I totally forgot to do this other thing. And now that client projects is behind.

Speaker 2: 26:56

So that time blocking helps you stay focused with getting the tasks done without getting like too zoned in and then taking that break, stepping out. And yeah, that's what I have found helpful for me and also for some of my other neurodivergent business people. But, um, test it out, Everybody's different. It might work great for one person because ADHD there's a lot that's similar, but my sister is so different than my cousin who also has diagnosed ADHD, versus my aunt, versus my like there's so many people in my family that have it and they're all different, but there's some that habit and they're all different, but there's some.

Speaker 3: 27:37

There's like obviously similarities that help them. So um great thank you can.

Speaker 1: 27:40

I add to that, like breathing exercises are really good as well, just to to sit back and and just take, you know, six deep breaths, center yourself and, and you know that sort of thing, the, the breathing really helps as well.

Speaker 3: 27:54

So yeah, so, Ben, I believe you've got a special question that you'd like to ask. Is that right?

Speaker 1: 28:01

Is it that time already?

Speaker 3: 28:03

It is. Why aren't you watching the clock? Can't you do 20,000 things at once?

Speaker 1: 28:07

What With? Everything else, wow. So, caitlin, I have a little question I like to ask all. I guess, if you walked outside today running into an 18-year-old version of yourself, what advice would you give yourself, knowing what you know now? Question.

Speaker 2: 28:22

I would say just keep going and keep trying, because entrepreneurship I have done so many different things with. I didn't start with systems. I tried social media, I tried copywriting, I tried blog. I did a lot and now I've been with systems for a year and a half and I am obsessed with it. And because I did all those other things, I am now great at what I do. So just don't give up, just keep going, keep trying, keep doing it, scared, like it'll be okay.

Speaker 1: 28:49

Yeah, and can I just share, like I've asked that question to so many people, like even quite influential people that I've managed to sit in large you know rooms and stuff with, and a lot of them, a lot of those you know, entrepreneurs and those big business people like you, richard Branson's and stuff like that. Having been asked this question, so many of them have said to focus on one thing, be great at that and then move on to the next. And I think that's such good advice coming from someone with ADHD, coming from someone like that, because that's the simplest thing that we can do Just focus on that one thing, get great at it and then move on to the next. So can I tell an ADHD joke? Do it Go for it? How many ADHD kids does it take to change a light bulb? Want to go swimming?

Speaker 2: 29:42

Literally like talking to my cousin.

Speaker 1: 29:46

That's my favorite ADHD joke.

Speaker 3: 29:48

Well, thank you so much, Caitlin.

Speaker 2: 29:50

It was really insightful.

Speaker 3: 29:52

And, yeah, I can see on ben's face that he's got a bit out of that. So, um, if anyone would like to connect with caitlin and work with her, her business is virtuallyvitalco. You can also find her on instagram and her facebook. Uh, she's gota facebook page as well and it's the same virtually vitalually Vital VA. Now, don't go anywhere. If you want to listen to the next few episodes coming up your way, we need you to subscribe, whether you're watching us on YouTube, in the Facebook group, or you can find us on any of your favourite podcast streaming services. So, thanks, guys, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1: 30:32

Lovely to meet you, Caitlin. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 30:33

Yeah, you guys as well. That was so fun All.