Fill Me In: An Aesthetics Podcast
On Fill Me In: An Aesthetics Podcast, Jon LeSuer NP-C and Nicole Bauer FNP-BC dive deep in the world of aesthetics. As aesthetic nurse practitioners with their own medical practices, Jon and Nicole fill you in on everything in their field.
Fill Me In: An Aesthetics Podcast
The 'Wild West' of Aesthetic Medicine, Masseter Dysport Complications, and Weekend Certifications
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In this episode of Fill Me In: An Aesthetics Podcast, hosts Jon LeSuer and Nicole Bauer pull back the curtain on the "Wild West" of the aesthetics field. They break down the real clinical differences between high social media follower counts and true clinical competence, react to Hannah Berner’s viral Masseter Dysport complication, and explain the anatomy of the risorius muscle and why precision dosing matters.
Jon and Nicole also dive deep into the truth behind 2-day weekend injector certification courses, what genuine baseline training and mentorship look like (from cadaver labs to 6-month residencies), medical aesthetics practice oversight, medical director laws across states like NY and NJ, and why live-injection industry conferences like Aesthetic Extender Symposium are essential for career growth. Whether you are a patient looking to safely vet your aesthetic provider or an injector navigating modern aesthetic medicine, this episode delivers unfiltered, clinically backed advice.
🚨**DISCLAIMER**🚨
The content of this episode of Fill Me In: An Aesthetics Podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and does not constitute medical advice. The hosts, guests, and producers of this podcast do not endorse or recommend the use of any medical product, procedure, or treatment without proper clinical training, patient assessment, and full informed consent. Listeners are strongly advised to consult with their healthcare providers and adhere to all applicable laws and regulatory guidelines. We expressly disclaim any and all liability for any outcomes related to the use or misuse of the information presented in this episode.
CHAPTERS:
00:00 Inside the "Wild West" of Aesthetic Medicine
02:02 Does a High Follower Count Mean a Clinically Safe Injector?
05:22 Aesthetics Practice Red Flags
08:00 Informed Consent & Hidden Safety Protocols Behind the Needle
09:40 The Truth About Weekend Injector "Certification" Courses
14:50 Med Spa Medical Directors: Oversight, Protocols & State Scope of Practice
17:44 Hannah Berner’s Viral Masseter Complication: Risorius Anatomy & Botox vs. Dysport
22:00 Managing Adverse Events: Why Complications Happen to Every Experienced Injector
23:50 Why Injectors Must Credential Themselves on Social Media
27:09 Industry Regulations vs. Off-Label Aesthetic Treatments
30:54 Live Injections & Podium Chemistry at Aesthetic Extender Symposium
35:38 What Comprehensive Aesthetic Training Actually Looks Like
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Exhibit Medical Aesthetics website:
https://exhibitmedicalaesthetics.com/
Follow Jon on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/injectorjon/
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Tox and Pout Aesthetics website:
https://toxandpout.com/
Producer of Fill Me In: Joey Ginexi
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[00:00:00] Jon: Welcome back to another episode of the Fill Me In podcast. I'm Injector John. [00:00:10]
[00:00:10] Nicole: And I'm Aesthetic Nurse Nicole.
[00:00:11] Jon: Yes, and we are here on a Friday night at 8:30 PM.
[00:00:15] Nicole: Here we are, showing up, wet hair and all.
[00:00:17] Jon: Sh- wet hair and all. [00:00:20] Me, I'm in my lounge wear at my lake house Enjoying having a quiet, quiet Friday night.
This is what happens when you're 34 years old. [00:00:30]
[00:00:30] Nicole: But listen- Yeah ... last weekend wasn't that quiet, okay?
[00:00:33] Jon: It wasn't. Aesthetic Exeter was nothing but quiet. It was-
[00:00:37] Nicole: Kept us
[00:00:37] Jon: busy ... stimulating, fun. Oh [00:00:40] my God.
[00:00:40] Nicole: Absolutely. All the people we met. We made so many new friends.
[00:00:43] Jon: We really did.
[00:00:44] Nicole: It
[00:00:44] Jon: was great. We did make- I can't wait for next year
some good connections. I know.
[00:00:46] Nicole: We did.
[00:00:47] Jon: It was fun. Um, so we're gonna [00:00:50] be talking about a really fun topic today.
[00:00:52] Nicole: Yes. Yep.
[00:00:52] Jon: And it's gonna be talking about the Wild, Wild West of aesthetics, right Nicole?
[00:00:56] Nicole: Absolutely.
[00:00:57] Jon: And who should actually be allowed to [00:01:00] do this. Mm-hmm. And, you know, there was a recent story that was brought, that brought renewed attention to med spa oversight, credentials, medical directors, IV [00:01:10] therapy, patient safety- Mm-hmm
and how difficult it can be for consumers, AKA patients, to distinguish a beautiful business from a medically responsible one.
[00:01:19] Nicole: [00:01:20] Mm-hmm.
[00:01:20] Jon: So I think a lot of people are getting fooled, and, you know, I think a great example of this is Hannah, the-
[00:01:27] Nicole: Ugh ...
[00:01:27] Jon: comedian. Our
[00:01:28] Nicole: poor girl Hannah from Giggly [00:01:30] Squad.
[00:01:30] Jon: From Giggly Squad- Ugh
with Paige Desorbo. Oh my
[00:01:33] Nicole: God. We'll get into that. I know. You, you see these people, right? They have all the money in the world, and they end up with a double- Yep ... risorius issue- Yep ... and they can't smile. [00:01:40] The poor-
[00:01:40] Jon: Yep ...
[00:01:40] Nicole: thing.
[00:01:41] Jon: They have a social media platform. Yep. You think that they're someone to look up to.
They're gonna go to someone who's distinguished-
[00:01:45] Nicole: Yeah ...
[00:01:45] Jon: professional, has credentials. And these people might still have credentials, [00:01:50] but are they doing it the right way?
[00:01:51] Nicole: Right. Right.
[00:01:52] Jon: S- yeah. So I guess the first question I'm gonna put out there for this episode is, does a huge Instagram following [00:02:00] mean anything clinically, Nicole?
[00:02:02] Nicole: Absolutely not. Absolutely not.
[00:02:06] Jon: What do you mean? You know- Just because you have- ... 28,000 followers, [00:02:10] I mean, if I saw you, Nicole- Does it make you trust you? I, if... Listen, if I saw you, Nicole, on Instagram, it, well, if I've never known you-
[00:02:17] Nicole: Mm-hmm ...
[00:02:17] Jon: and I saw how many followers you have, I'd be like, "Oh- [00:02:20]
[00:02:20] Nicole: I
[00:02:20] Jon: think- ... she seems legit."
[00:02:21] Nicole: Yes. I think definitely the amount of followers plays a role, especially in a patient's mind.
[00:02:27] Jon: Yeah.
[00:02:27] Nicole: But I think it's something that they should not [00:02:30] solely base their decision off of. Mm-hmm. I think once you see that number, yeah, that's great. That's cool. That means they're active, and they have followers.
Mm-hmm. But then you need to dig deeper. Are they [00:02:40] posting before-and-afters? What do they look like, one? Because you, you want your injector to look like somebody that you wanna look like.
[00:02:47] Jon: Mm-hmm.
[00:02:48] Nicole: 100%. You know? Before and afters. Mm-hmm. And [00:02:50] then their credentials. You can look anybody up online. You need to be- Mm-hmm
looking and seeing if they're actually licensed and if they're reputable. Reviews, all that good stuff.
[00:02:58] Jon: Yeah, and I mean, [00:03:00] I think we all fall into this scenario because even when, before when I was an injector-
[00:03:06] Nicole: Mm-hmm ...
[00:03:07] Jon: I followed someone based on their hype. Like- Mm-hmm ... oh [00:03:10] my God, X amount of people go to them, I'm gonna go to them.
[00:03:12] Nicole: Yep.
[00:03:13] Jon: Yep. You know? And- I mean, if a lot of people go to these people, that's a good sign.
[00:03:18] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:03:19] Jon: But I [00:03:20] think you definitely have to go on their website. You have to look at their Google reviews. I think... I mean, I truly... The amount of people now that I get just from Google, it's word of mouth- Mm-hmm ... is number one, but the [00:03:30] second one is Instagram and Google.
[00:03:32] Nicole: Yep.
[00:03:32] Jon: And they're people coming from out of town, and I'm like, "Oh my God, you found me on Google? Like, this is amazing." This
[00:03:36] Nicole: is great. Yep. Like,
[00:03:37] Jon: yeah, and- Those
[00:03:37] Nicole: reviews matter so much. Yep ...
[00:03:38] Jon: they're like, "We went right to the [00:03:40] reviews." Mm-hmm. "Everything was great. You know, you seem just very... You don't seem pushy.
You seem real." Mm-hmm. "You'll say no. You'll..." You know, and that means a lot. Yep. So I think, you know, [00:03:50] if you're a patient and you're listening in, just make sure that you're doing your due diligence and not just going to someone because, because of their Instagram following, because there's a lot of [00:04:00] people- Right
and injectors that are doing clickbait type of things on Instagram. Mm-hmm. And they're finding topics that they know will get traction and make their video viral. And just because, you [00:04:10] know, they're getting all of these likes and comments doesn't mean that they're a good injector, which sounds awful.
There's a lot that do these type of posts that are good- That are great.
[00:04:19] Nicole: [00:04:20] Yes, yes ...
[00:04:20] Jon: but there are a lot that aren't-
[00:04:22] Nicole: Yeah ... too. And I think the point is we're trying... Like, even if they have 500 followers- Mm-hmm ... they could still be an incredible... Like, do not make your [00:04:30] decision based off a follower count.
Totally. Absolutely not, because it's the credentials that matter 100%. They could have... There's someone that could have 500 followers that's an award-winning [00:04:40] clinician, you know? Yeah. Um, I think, though, in today's day and age, unfortunately, patients do look at that. Mm-hmm. And I think it's important for, if you're a patient listening, that [00:04:50] you do your due diligence and, and look into it because there's also these, you know, people that travel from overseas, and they do pop-ups in, like, Florida and New [00:05:00] York- Mm-hmm
and, and they have a ton of followers, and the results are crazy because they're Photoshopped.
[00:05:04] Jon: Yeah.
[00:05:04] Nicole: And people go, you know? And, like, if you dig deeper into that, you'll find some things, you know? So, like, [00:05:10] just Google the people, Google their name, Google their business name, and, and really pay attention because you don't want to end up seeing someone that's gonna fly back the next day to another country, and you're gonna have no one-
[00:05:19] Jon: [00:05:20] Mm-hmm
[00:05:20] Nicole: to see if you have a complication.
[00:05:22] Jon: Yeah. W- what do you think about- I mean, when I first started, I don't know, you worked at a [00:05:30] plastic surgery office.
[00:05:31] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:05:32] Jon: I worked at an aesthetic, like, med spa- Mm-hmm ... that was mostly aesthetician run.
[00:05:37] Nicole: Yeah.
[00:05:37] Jon: And back in the day, like eight years ago, [00:05:40] Groupon was a huge thing.
[00:05:40] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:05:41] Jon: And they used to run a lot of Groupon. I mean, when Groupon started it was... I thought it was actually kind of good.
[00:05:47] Nicole: Good, yeah. Yep.
[00:05:48] Jon: And so I think a lot of [00:05:50] practices were going to Groupon to bring people- Mm-hmm ... in because they knew that it was, like, a hype thing and people were- Yeah ... doing it. But over the years it's not [00:06:00] become like that.
It's become very shoppy, and people are just looking- Mm-hmm ... for deals. So what do you say to people? It's got, it's
[00:06:05] Nicole: gotten a bad rap. It
[00:06:07] Jon: has. Groupon's
[00:06:07] Nicole: gotten a bad rap. I, I do, right, especially starting [00:06:10] out, I know-
[00:06:10] Jon: Do you use Groupon, Nicole?
[00:06:12] Nicole: I don't.
[00:06:13] Jon: Yeah, see. I don't.
[00:06:16] Nicole: I
[00:06:16] Jon: don't. Run the other way. If you see that med spa on Groupon, run.
Run. [00:06:20]
[00:06:20] Nicole: Run. Just please run. I think there's, there's many better ways to do promotions, uh, than utilizing something like Groupon, you know?
[00:06:27] Jon: Mm-hmm. Yeah, there [00:06:30]
[00:06:30] Nicole: is. There's, there's many other ways to get your name out there. Um- Yeah. No, I, I would agree. I, I don't think Groupon's a great idea.
[00:06:37] Jon: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:38] Nicole: And I think if you're a [00:06:40] new injector listening, John has a lot of input on this, like, like, using the people around you, right?
You, you did a lot of salons and stuff when you first started- Oh, yeah ... really gaining, gaining [00:06:50] clientele. Like, use the businesses around you that you can collab with in ways like that. Like, oh, if so-and-so sent you, $100 off, you know? Uh, more word of mouth [00:07:00] where people can actually really trust you and...
[00:07:02] Jon: Yeah, I mean, I think I used...
I mean, I don't even say used, I partnered and collaborated- Mm-hmm ... with other salons and other [00:07:10] people that, like, initially when I first started because, number one, I wanted to do it, you know? Right. Mm-hmm. And I thought it was a good outreach. It gets your name out there. Mm-hmm. And but I did it the right [00:07:20] way.
Like, I had malpractice insurance that covered me when I was there. Right.
[00:07:23] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:23] Jon: I brought all of the necessary- uh, products that I needed- Mm-hmm ... to f- perform [00:07:30] those treatments. I was in a room that had good lighting, that had the resources I needed, right? Yeah. So I wasn't going to people's houses- Mm-hmm ... you know, to do them.
Yeah. So [00:07:40] yeah, I think it's really, especially, at, at least when you're first getting yourself out there and getting your name out there, I do think they have a place. Like, I think- Right ... it's great. Absolutely, yeah. If I could still do them now, I would. It's just, [00:07:50] you know, humbly, like, we're just so busy in office- Busy, yep
that I don't have the time to- To do things like that anymore ... do weekends and do like that anymore- Yeah ... unless it's, like, worth it. Right. You know?
[00:07:59] Nicole: [00:08:00] No, absolutely, absolutely. You just made me think as I'm mentioning the malpractice, um, I think there's so much behind the scenes that patients don't realize that we do.
Mm-hmm. [00:08:10] Like, I, I had a patient come in the other day for nose filler, and of course, as all of my patients know, I will always explain the risks to you. There's never gonna be something that I do, and you don't know- Mm-hmm ... that there's a potential of [00:08:20] something happening. A good informed consent. Yes, exactly.
And, um, she got very nervous after finding out, you know, the potential of blindness. And, uh, you know, I went over everything. I said, "Listen, the reason I tell you this is [00:08:30] not to scare you, but it's because it's a potential, and it's a documented adverse event. And if I were you sitting in that chair, I would wanna know it's a potential that could happen to me."
Mm-hmm. Um, and she was like, "No, and [00:08:40] I, I appreciate that," but w- I went into the details of, like, "Listen, you wouldn't even know if I, if I didn't tell you this, but I'm staying midline. I'm staying away from specific structures." Mm-hmm. "I'm [00:08:50] aspirating. I'm down on bone. I'm using a specific needle. I'm, I'm only injecting a certain amount per spot, and I don't inject more than .2 in a nose ever."
Like, but, like, these are things [00:09:00] that we never really say to a patient, you know? Mm-hmm. But we're doing them behind the scenes in, in secret, you know, to keep them safe. So I think it's so important sometimes to, like, remind your patients, like, "Listen, I've [00:09:10] taken X amount of trainings. I, I read the research.
I'm, I'm doing everything in my power to keep you safe." And going back to that whole, like, does the Instagram following mean they're [00:09:20] safe clinically, like, also ask your providers if they have insurance, right? Like, God forbid something does happen- Mm-hmm ... to you. Do they have malpractice insurance when you're gonna need something?
Are they gonna be able to cover that cost? [00:09:30] Like, it, it ... These are important questions, you know?
[00:09:33] Jon: Yeah, for sure. I agree with you. Um, what else do you wanna talk about, Nicole?
[00:09:39] Nicole: How do you feel about [00:09:40] weekend courses for injecting?
[00:09:44] Jon: Oh, boy. Um-
[00:09:46] Nicole: I think everything has a place, right?
[00:09:47] Jon: I took one-
[00:09:48] Nicole: Yes,
[00:09:49] Jon: me too ... when I first [00:09:50] started.
Yep. Uh, seven and, and a half years ago.
[00:09:53] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:54] Jon: Uh, I felt like it was necessary to do before I started where I was going to be starting. [00:10:00] Um, and it involved lip filler, smiling filler, marionettes, and- Mm-hmm ... the look of three.
[00:10:07] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:08] Jon: And it was good, [00:10:10] but, like, I left and I was scared. Like, I mean- Absolutely ... I injected maybe two or three people.
Almost more scared,
[00:10:13] Nicole: right?
[00:10:14] Jon: Yeah. And I was thrown into it. So-
[00:10:17] Nicole: Mm-hmm ...
[00:10:17] Jon: with that being said, I [00:10:20] really think it depends on the person, if they're really motivated enough to watch educational videos- Mm-hmm ... do more training, pay out-of-pocket costs for trainings, [00:10:30] ask the medical director or whoever you work for for, you know, further trainings on, you know, comprehensive Botox, you know, glabella- Mm-hmm
frontalis, crow's feet, [00:10:40] platysma. And then also, like, further training on, like, full facial balancing. Um, if they don't offer CME, then I mean, you have to do these [00:10:50] out-of-pocket thing. For me- Mm-hmm ... it was a different era back then. Like, I was on YouTube, I was on Instagram. I wasn't really on Patreon, but I was non-stop watching videos after videos after videos- Right
[00:11:00] after working in the hospital, and then working three or four hours at the med spa, going home, and I was just watching. Like- Right,
[00:11:06] Nicole: watching and learning,
[00:11:07] Jon: yep ... 'cause I knew, I saw who was in my schedule. Mm-hmm. And I'm [00:11:10] like, "I have to know how to do cheek, lip- Mm-hmm ... do it safely." So with repetition, repetition, it got better, but then, you know, I went, started having the money to go to more trainings.
And [00:11:20] I, I remember charging my card, looking at my husband and saying-
[00:11:22] Nicole: Right. ... "
[00:11:22] Jon: We'll figure it out. It is what it is." But I, I- I'll
[00:11:25] Nicole: make it back. I'll make it
[00:11:26] Jon: back. Yeah ... I love this so much. Yeah. And I wanna be really good at it. Mm-hmm. [00:11:30] So I need to know properly how to do these things safely. So-
[00:11:32] Nicole: Yep ...
[00:11:33] Jon: um, weekend courses I think have their place, but you have to- Mm-hmm
follow up with it. Yes. It's kind of like an Allergan training, a Galderma [00:11:40] training, Revance training. You know, if they come and do the training for you, and you ba- basically you've only injected two people before the training, you have to get models in [00:11:50] immediately thereafter-
[00:11:50] Nicole: Yes, yep ...
[00:11:51] Jon: to then- You know, put- Be
[00:11:53] Nicole: able to implement, yes.
[00:11:54] Jon: Yeah ... implement everything that you learned right away. Mm-hmm. Because honestly, when four weeks goes by and you haven't, [00:12:00] what was the point of that training?
[00:12:01] Nicole: Yep.
[00:12:01] Jon: S- so I think weekend courses do have their place. I think it makes you look more reputable-
[00:12:06] Nicole: Mm-hmm ...
[00:12:06] Jon: for when you're applying for [00:12:10] other positions at practices, whether it's derm, med spas, right?
It makes you look more advantageous.
[00:12:15] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:15] Jon: But I think, you know, just to rely on them and then s- open up your own [00:12:20] practice-
[00:12:20] Nicole: Mm-hmm ...
[00:12:21] Jon: I'm not a fan. Yeah, yeah. I think you do that, you do that, and then you work for someone, gain experience, gain a following, and then open up your own place- Mm-hmm ... if that's something you wanna [00:12:30] do.
Some people don't wanna do that. Right. They wanna work for someone forever because business is not their forte, and I don't blame them.
[00:12:35] Nicole: Right, right. And I think it's important, too, to highlight, like, these weekend courses, even though you get a cert- [00:12:40] like, a cert afterwards, you're not certified. There's no certification in what we do.
And I think a lot of the time that definitely gets people that have never been in our field, and they're [00:12:50] like- Yeah ... "Well, I'm gonna take this, I'm gonna be certified, I'm gonna get a job in this." It doesn't really work that way, unfortunately. Yeah. And I think sometimes these weekend courses will charge people a crazy amount of money, 3 to [00:13:00] 5,000, and you know, they, they teach them the basics and they give them a certification and they send them on their way.
I think it's definitely necessary if you're trying to get into this field. It's absolutely necessary to try to learn the basics that way, [00:13:10] but like you said, it's about repetition, implementing, and, and gaining further-
[00:13:13] Jon: And as a business owner, as a practice owner, if I'm hiring an injector and they went to a weekend course, right, and they absolutely [00:13:20] loved it, I'm at the stage where I've trained brand...
to- I've trained two brand-new injectors, right? They're great. Mm-hmm. They're doing wonderful. [00:13:30] To hire another brand-new injector, it's a lot, right? Absolutely. Like, it takes your time and investment to train them, and I would totally do it again- I, I guess if someone came to [00:13:40] me and they had done a weekend course, I, I...
B- I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't know if I would- They're eager. They're eager, but I don't know if I would fully hire them at th- at this point. I
[00:13:49] Nicole: would- Because [00:13:50] you're not looking for someone new anymore. You're looking for someone with experience.
[00:13:51] Jon: I'm looking for someone who's a little experienced, but also- Mm-hmm
if they did go to the weekend training and they walked in- Mm-hmm ... handed me a resume-
[00:13:59] Nicole: Right, right ... [00:14:00]
[00:14:00] Jon: I, they're more apt to hire them. Yeah, exactly. Because I... People that just email their resumes- Mm-hmm ... and they say they've had a cer- I, I've never met you before.
[00:14:09] Nicole: Right.
[00:14:09] Jon: Like, make a [00:14:10] really good first impression.
Mm-hmm. Walk in, meet my manager, meet my front staff- Yep ... and be like, "This person's walked in, handed me their resume. They're really interested. They, they seem great. They have a good personality." Mm-hmm. I'm like, "Okay." Like, "Hmm, look, [00:14:20]
[00:14:21] Nicole: okay, maybe."
[00:14:21] Jon: I'll take it more seriously.
[00:14:23] Nicole: Yep.
[00:14:23] Jon: But if I just get a, a resume via email-
[00:14:26] Nicole: I know
I'm not gonna do
[00:14:26] Jon: it And it's like,
[00:14:27] Nicole: how many, how many of those emails do you get? It's hard to-
[00:14:29] Jon: [00:14:30] Yeah ...
[00:14:30] Nicole: you know, sort through them all. And
[00:14:30] Jon: I don't mean that in a mean way. No, of course not.
[00:14:32] Nicole: It's just- Yeah ...
[00:14:33] Jon: I think anybody who's looking to get into aesthetics, you need to walk in-
[00:14:36] Nicole: Mm-hmm ...
[00:14:37] Jon: and you need to hand your resumes to any practice that you're interested in [00:14:40] working at.
Yep,
[00:14:41] Nicole: yep. I
[00:14:41] Jon: think it goes a long way.
[00:14:42] Nicole: Absolutely. How do you feel about... Oh, go ahead. No, go ahead. Did you have a thought? Mm-mm.
[00:14:47] Jon: No.
[00:14:47] Nicole: No. How do you feel about, do you think, um, [00:14:50] patients should know who the medical director is?
[00:14:54] Jon: Hmm. Yes, I do. I think it's very important. I think there's two sides to this.
[00:14:59] Nicole: [00:15:00] Mm-hmm.
[00:15:00] Jon: I think there's some aesthetic practices that, depending on your state- Mm-hmm
and where you live in, I think there's some very good NPs and PAs that are very- Mm-hmm ... [00:15:10] reputable, do things the right way, have protocols, have complication management, right? They're very compliant.
[00:15:15] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:15] Jon: And they're good injectors, and they hire, like, a medical director [00:15:20] service to- Mm-hmm ... you know, to govern over them, so, so that way they can cross all, check all boxes.
[00:15:24] Nicole: Right. Absolutely.
[00:15:25] Jon: So there's that, you know, and I'm sure there's a bunch around the United States- Mm-hmm ... and they're [00:15:30] doing a great job. But for me, I'm the medical director of my practice in New York State. Mm-hmm. NPs, if you have over 3,600 hours of cli- like, clinical, right? Mm-hmm. Yep. In-person [00:15:40] clinical, then you can be medical director.
So for me, yeah, e- everybody knows I'm the medical director. Right. So I think that's very good for them, and-
[00:15:47] Nicole: Yep ...
[00:15:48] Jon: they make the practice seem more reputable. [00:15:50] They bu- you know.
[00:15:51] Nicole: Yeah. I think it's important that, too. Yeah. You have... Like, your newer injectors, right, they have you to turn to. I think the- Yes
importance of, of a patient knowing who a medical director is is knowing [00:16:00] that, God forbid, there became an issue, you have someone that you can- Mm-hmm ... pull in, or you have... Even, but even these places where you might not have an MD, you- [00:16:10] Mm-hmm ... like, you have protocols. You have people you can reach out to.
Like, it's- Mm-hmm ... it's just, again, it's like doing your due diligence on a practice and making sure that they have the protocols in place that, you know, God forbid something [00:16:20] did happen to you, do they have a hyperbaric chamber they can refer you to? Do they have this? Do they... You know? So as much as the medical director matters, because I do think having someone to fall back [00:16:30] on and, and bring someone in if you do have an emergency, if you need them, is important.
[00:16:33] Jon: Yeah.
[00:16:34] Nicole: But it's, it's all about the protocols and making sure that the practice you're going to is, is, uh, is practice, practicing safely.
[00:16:39] Jon: It [00:16:40] is s- yeah. Like, and like I said, like, if you're a reputable-
[00:16:43] Nicole: Mm-hmm ...
[00:16:44] Jon: you know, NP, PA, RN, and you own your own practice, and you have a [00:16:50] medical director service, right?
[00:16:51] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:16:52] Jon: Just make sure you're doing things the right way.
[00:16:53] Nicole: Right.
[00:16:54] Jon: Right. Um, but do I think it makes a difference knowing who the medical director is? I [00:17:00] think it can.
[00:17:00] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:01] Jon: You know, especially, at least for me in New York State, like if, you know, with NPs, things like that, owning your own practice, people love [00:17:10] that.
Mm-hmm. They know that I'm there. Like you said, like, if there's anything wrong, I can take care of it.
[00:17:14] Nicole: Right. Yep.
[00:17:14] Jon: But all my practitioners in, in my office know how to handle- Yeah ... a complication. Mm-hmm. So even if I wasn't there, they'd [00:17:20] be okay.
[00:17:20] Nicole: Yep. I think, too, on top of that is, like, it's more, too, if you know and see who the medical director is, you know they're doing things [00:17:30] legally.
Mm-hmm. Like, every practice- Mm ... every practice technically needs a medical director. It depends on the state whether it needs to be an MD, NP, or PA. Mm-hmm. I actually believe, I don't think PAs can be medical directors. I'm pretty sure it's just [00:17:40] NP and, and MD that can do it.
[00:17:41] Jon: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:42] Nicole: I don't know if that's for every state, but...
[00:17:44] Jon: Yeah. Let's talk about Hannah.
[00:17:47] Nicole: Yes.
[00:17:48] Jon: Who-
[00:17:48] Nicole: Our poor Giggly Squad [00:17:50] girl.
[00:17:50] Jon: Yeah. She was on, she's on Summer House, or was on Summer House. Mm-hmm. That's where she started. Now she's a comedian.
[00:17:56] Nicole: Yep.
[00:17:56] Jon: And she recently posted that [00:18:00] she got Masseter Dysport-
[00:18:02] Nicole: Mm-hmm ...
[00:18:02] Jon: from an aesthetic practice that she normally doesn't go to.
[00:18:06] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:07] Jon: And she ended up getting a [00:18:10] really wonky smile after, and it went viral. People were kind of freaking out. I think that she was getting a lot of criticism for it.
[00:18:17] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:18] Jon: Um, what do you think about it? [00:18:20]
[00:18:20] Nicole: Okay, so I think, one, I think it's really easy to be like, "Oh, God, who did that to her, and how did that happen?"
Like, I've- Mm-hmm ... I've unfortunately caused a little bit of a [00:18:30] crooked smile with Masseters before.
[00:18:31] Jon: I have, too.
[00:18:32] Nicole: Never to that extent, but
[00:18:34] Jon: It's usually one-sided.
[00:18:35] Nicole: Yes, yep.
[00:18:36] Jon: Not
[00:18:36] Nicole: both. So, so just for patients listening, right, when [00:18:40] you're treating the masseter muscle, which is the, one of the muscles that you use when you're chewing.
It's in the back kind of underneath your cheek area. It's a big, thick muscle back there. When you clench your teeth, it bulges, and we can really feel it and isolate [00:18:50] it when we inject. There's a muscle that attaches from the masseter to the corner of your mouth that helps you pull and smile, pull your mouth open.
[00:18:57] Jon: Yeah, it makes the smile wide.
[00:18:59] Nicole: Yep. Mm-hmm. So [00:19:00] that's called the risorius, and it lays very thinly on top of that masseter muscle. So if you're not injecting deep enough or you're not injecting further back enough, you can [00:19:10] hit that, and then you can cause someone to, like, not be able to- Mm ... smile wide. So that's what happened to her.
Now here's the thing. I typically use a one-to-one [00:19:20] dilution of Botox only. Uh, I will do Daxy sometimes because I'm not so worried about the spread of Daxy, um, but I will never do Dysport in a masseter. [00:19:30] I don't.
[00:19:32] Jon: I don't either. It,
[00:19:35] Nicole: it's- Because Dysport will spread more, technically.
[00:19:37] Jon: Yes. And I use BOTOX [00:19:40] Cosmetic anytime I'm treating the lower face because- Mm
it's more precise in my opinion.
[00:19:45] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:45] Jon: You know, where I inject it, we know it stays. And I use a two-to-one reconstitution [00:19:50] actually in the masseter. Mm. I mean, it's a big muscle. I go deep. I'm always marking from the oral commissure to the mid tragus, and then I'm feeling, I'm having them [00:20:00] clench-
[00:20:01] Nicole: Mm-hmm ...
[00:20:01] Jon: and then putting my two fingers around- Yep
that masseter muscle. I see it, yep. So I'm palpating that muscle-
[00:20:06] Nicole: Mm-hmm ...
[00:20:06] Jon: feeling the, the severity of the bulge, right- Mm-hmm ... of that muscle, [00:20:10] and that's telling me how many units I need to dose for that masseter. But when we're injecting it, we're always injecting deep. If we go- Yeah ... too superficial, there's that chance of hitting the risorius, and then [00:20:20] you're gonna have some of that Bo- BOTOX leak into that muscle and cause- Mm
a little bit of a wonky smile. But Dysport, and this is nothing against Dysport-
[00:20:28] Nicole: Mm-hmm ...
[00:20:29] Jon: but she tends to [00:20:30] spread more.
[00:20:30] Nicole: Yes.
[00:20:31] Jon: It's a little bit more, um How do I say it? You can't rely completely on it- Mm-hmm ... right?
[00:20:38] Nicole: On the amount that, uh, that, and the [00:20:40] amount of each-
[00:20:41] Jon: Injection ... yeah,
[00:20:42] Nicole: yeah, injection point. Yes. Yes, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
[00:20:43] Jon: So when you inject it, it likes to diffuse, which is great, right?
[00:20:47] Nicole: In certain
[00:20:47] Jon: areas,
[00:20:47] Nicole: yes.
[00:20:48] Jon: Yeah. Um, in certain areas, right? Mm-hmm. Especially really, [00:20:50] you know, strong muscles in certain areas, right? Mm-hmm. But with Dysport it's, it, there's more adverse events in my opinion in the lower face. Yeah. So I like to use BOTOX [00:21:00] Cosmetic there, and I know- Yeah
you use a one-to-one reconstitution. Mm-hmm. I use a two-to-one. That just means I use a two cc of 2 ML recon when I'm reconstituting
100 unit vial of [00:21:10] BOTOX.
[00:21:10] Nicole: Mm-hmm. And I do a 1 ML. Anything from the nose down- Yeah ... I do 1 ML. But everyone's got their, their thing.
[00:21:15] Jon: They do. Yeah, exactly.
[00:21:16] Nicole: And I, I will say, too, the one time I got a [00:21:20] really wonky smile from masseters, she always did a really high dose, and I'm, like, not even kidding. It was like 50 and 50 in masseter, and she came back, and it had...
We've been treating her for so long. Yeah. And I, I [00:21:30] felt her, and I was like, "I know these masseters are not as strong." And she's like, "Nope, they're really strong. Just treat them heavy," and I'm like, in my head I'm like, "She doesn't need this dose." And then of course, you know? So-
[00:21:38] Jon: Yeah,
[00:21:38] Nicole: sure ... it can be from [00:21:40] overdoing the dose, too.
They could have just given her way too much, and then it just spread.
[00:21:43] Jon: Yeah.
[00:21:43] Nicole: You know. I think it- More dosage equals more volume, so.
[00:21:46] Jon: I, I do think it's depth.
[00:21:47] Nicole: Yep. Mm-hmm.
[00:21:48] Jon: I think it's the amount of [00:21:50] units, and I think it's- Yeah ... the specific neurotoxin in my opinion.
[00:21:53] Nicole: Yep.
[00:21:53] Jon: Truthfully. Yeah. And that's not- Speaking-
bashing anybody.
[00:21:56] Nicole: Anything. Go ahead. Yes, no. No, speaking of this, um, [00:22:00] so basically we're saying I've never had a complication is not a flex, right?
[00:22:04] Jon: No, it's not- ... because we've had them.
[00:22:08] Nicole: And when you've had them, you know how to [00:22:10] deal with them.
[00:22:10] Jon: Yes, and the reason why we've had them... And you'll, it, the more patients you see, the more...
I hate even saying complications. The more situations you d- Adverse event-
[00:22:19] Nicole: Yeah ... adverse [00:22:20] events.
[00:22:20] Jon: Sure. Yeah, yeah. Or situations you don't wanna deal with come up.
[00:22:22] Nicole: Yeah, yeah.
[00:22:23] Jon: Right? It's just all about how you deal with them- Mm-hmm ... and how you act on it, and just knowing that you have the protocol and [00:22:30] the complication management to deal with it, and the reassurance for the patient, right?
Mm-hmm. 'Cause sometimes it can be scary for the patient. Right. So just letting them know that you know how to handle it, it just eases their mind.
[00:22:39] Nicole: Yep, [00:22:40] absolutely.
[00:22:40] Jon: Right?
[00:22:41] Nicole: Yeah, I think it's-
[00:22:42] Jon: So Hannah- Mm ... Hannah, you need to go to your normal injector.
[00:22:46] Nicole: Tell her.
[00:22:48] Jon: Ugh. I love you. Treating you like a sister [00:22:50] mother bestie, but you need to go to your main injector-
who always injects your face. Don't just go to a place just quickly-
[00:22:57] Nicole: Yeah ... to
[00:22:57] Jon: do it. And- Don't just
[00:22:57] Nicole: pick anywhere random ...
[00:22:59] Jon: and it's [00:23:00] funny, like, you know, we were just at AES, and I was having a conversation about masseter BOTOX with a few providers. And some of them do do Dysport, and- Mm-hmm ... they say that Dysport, because [00:23:10] of the spread, there's more spread of Dysport, and it's a bigger muscle with ma- with the masseters.
They really want it to hit all of- Mm-hmm ... all of that muscle. But- Everyone's different. Yeah. I just [00:23:20] don't. I use Botox. More precise. Yeah. Does the job. There's an FDA indication coming out with Botox Cosmetic.
[00:23:27] Nicole: Very exciting.
[00:23:28] Jon: Can't tell you what it's [00:23:30] for, but it involves the masseter. I can't tell you the indication though.
[00:23:34] Nicole: Can't say that. Can't say that.
[00:23:35] Jon: Can't say it yet.
[00:23:37] Nicole: Oh.
[00:23:37] Jon: Yeah, but it's really exciting.
[00:23:38] Nicole: Very exciting.
[00:23:39] Jon: [00:23:40] Yes.
[00:23:40] Nicole: Um, let's see. What else? Oh, this is a good one.
[00:23:44] Jon: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:44] Nicole: What should patients be asking before letting someone inject them? [00:23:50]
[00:23:50] Jon: Um, you know what's funny? Uh, patients don't really ask me many questions. Well,
[00:23:55] Nicole: I think you do a good job of credentialing yourself online.
[00:23:58] Jon: And th- and there it is. [00:24:00] I think that-
[00:24:00] Nicole: Yeah ...
[00:24:01] Jon: if they credential, if you do a good job, you have a good social media presence, credentialing yourself, have good education- Mm-hmm ... show yourself continuing education, right, [00:24:10] then I think that they're less... They're not going to ask you as many questions in the room.
They're just gonna- It's not gonna
[00:24:15] Nicole: be an interview, yeah, yeah.
[00:24:16] Jon: Right.
[00:24:16] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:24:17] Jon: Right. So they're just gonna go into telling [00:24:20] you what their concerns are, looking at the mirror- Mm-hmm ... and you can walk through what you're seeing and do a, a proper facial assessment.
[00:24:24] Nicole: Yeah. But- And I know John has done a, a, a whole talk on this, but I think it's- Mm-hmm
so [00:24:30] important as a provider to credential yourself on Instagram. Like-
[00:24:32] Jon: Mm-hmm ...
[00:24:32] Nicole: I post John hates me for this, I post several times a day.
[00:24:36] Jon: I do not hate you. Like I honestly it just gives me anxiety- ... 'cause I'm [00:24:40] not doing a good, good enough job.
[00:24:42] Nicole: No, clearly you are. But, um- I
[00:24:44] Jon: don't know ...
[00:24:44] Nicole: you... he did a whole talk on this at Modern Beauty Con- Yeah
um, about how you [00:24:50] should be credentialing yourself online- Mm-hmm ... because it does help, one, bring more patients in, but then they
[00:24:55] Jon: do- And the consultation starts- ...
[00:24:56] Nicole: they trust
[00:24:56] Jon: you better. ... on social media. Yeah. It just does nowadays. Yeah. You [00:25:00] know, and that's what I tell people. I mean, if you're not good on social media, you need to pay someone to do it for you.
[00:25:05] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:05] Jon: It's just we're in that day and age where everybody- Yep ... has ChatGPT, they have [00:25:10] Claude. You know, they're going online, they're researching everything before you're even coming in.
[00:25:14] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:14] Jon: Like, someone today said that they were researching me for two years, and they finally had the- Aw ... [00:25:20] like, you know, the courage to come in.
Right. And I'm like- Yeah ... "That's amazing." And they were like, "I've looked at other people, but it's your page that I, you know, went to 'cause I felt like you gave the most education," and, [00:25:30] you know-
[00:25:30] Nicole: Mm-hmm ...
[00:25:31] Jon: you loved... I don't know. It, it, uh, you know, that means a lot, but it's true. Yeah. And it's a lot of work. Yeah.
But if you don't like social media, you need to pay- Mm-hmm ... someone to help you do it, because- Right ... [00:25:40] in this day and age, you're not gonna be as successful-
[00:25:43] Nicole: No ...
[00:25:43] Jon: unfortunately.
[00:25:44] Nicole: I know.
[00:25:44] Jon: And like- You could be the best injector or really good injector, but no social media presence, I'm sorry. Not all of us can be [00:25:50] like David Yolen.
[00:25:51] Nicole: No, exactly. He's the one unicorn that does not have Instagram and is just booked for, like, the next 10 years.
[00:25:57] Jon: Literally, Dr. Yolen, like, uh, [00:26:00] not everybody can, but he was from a different era. That, that era. So he- Yeah,
[00:26:03] Nicole: yeah ...
[00:26:03] Jon: built his name- Mm-hmm ... and now he's like, "I'm not on Google."
[00:26:06] Nicole: Yep. "
[00:26:07] Jon: I don't do ads." And he's booked- Yeah
out a year or [00:26:10] two.
[00:26:10] Nicole: Yeah, yeah.
[00:26:10] Jon: But that's just him.
[00:26:12] Nicole: Yep, and he was-
[00:26:12] Jon: But now-
[00:26:13] Nicole: He, he... You know, like you said, he was... it was before that era. Like, he really- Mm-hmm ... got into it at a good time.
[00:26:18] Jon: Yeah.
[00:26:18] Nicole: Now, there was someone, [00:26:20] someone posted, I think, um- Uh, somebody, I think it was probably Erica, very honestly put up- Mm-hmm
like, you know, "In today's day and age, you really, you have to be posting in order to be successful." For sure. [00:26:30] And a lot- as there was some people that kind of took that, and they were like, "You know, you don't need to be on social media to have a good practice." And, and that's not what she meant. You know, uh, you do not need to be on social media to [00:26:40] have a, a great practice and, and a safe practice, but if you want to get yourself out there and get those patient numbers up, you have to be putting yourself out there on social media.
[00:26:49] Jon: Yes. 100,
[00:26:49] Nicole: [00:26:50] 100% agree. Because you have to, like you said, the consult starts before they even walk in your door. The consult starts by them seeing you online, credentialing yourself- Yeah ... showing your before and afters, and that's how they come in the door. So.
[00:26:59] Jon: [00:27:00] 100%. No, I totally agree. Let's see here. Is aesthetics growing faster than regulation can keep up?
[00:27:09] Nicole: [00:27:10] Honestly A little bit. A little bit.
[00:27:15] Jon: It's growing so quickly.
[00:27:16] Nicole: We're gonna, we're just gonna be honest
[00:27:18] Jon: on this, guys. One thing that, one thing [00:27:20] I'm really annoyed at, though- Mm-hmm ... is that there's so many great treatments. Mm-hmm. I just, I get really annoyed when some [00:27:30] providers make such a fuss over- Mm-hmm
certain treatments online.
[00:27:34] Nicole: Yeah, yeah.
[00:27:35] Jon: Because a lot of people that are listening to this podcast, [00:27:40] right, you guys are doing things the right way. You guys are in it for the right reasons. You have protocols. You know how to m- you know, manage certain complications, and you would only offer treatments to your [00:27:50] patients that you know were effective and safe, right?
[00:27:52] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:27:53] Jon: And, you know, I'm s- really starting not to give a anymore, truly. And- ... [00:28:00] I really am. And I, I, the patients are always number one.
[00:28:04] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:28:04] Jon: But I'm sorry, like, I-
[00:28:06] Nicole: You're done with, you're done with everyone's outside opinions.
[00:28:08] Jon: I'm done with [00:28:10] everybody's outside opinions. Mm-hmm. And I have the patients', you know, health and- Mm-hmm
their goals in mind. Well-being
[00:28:17] Nicole: and safety
[00:28:17] Jon: and, yeah ... and their living and safety. And I, there are so [00:28:20] many treatments-
[00:28:21] Nicole: Mm-hmm ...
[00:28:21] Jon: that are off-label that are safe to do.
[00:28:23] Nicole: Yep.
[00:28:24] Jon: And we have to start doing them.
[00:28:26] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:28:27] Jon: In my opinion. We have to evolve-
[00:28:29] Nicole: Mm-hmm ...
[00:28:29] Jon: [00:28:30] and we have to move on. Yeah. I'm sorry.
[00:28:32] Nicole: Mm-hmm. No, I, I, I agree with you.
It's, and it's like, it's fun because our field is always evolving.
[00:28:39] Jon: Are you
[00:28:39] Nicole: [00:28:40] kidding?
[00:28:40] Jon: Yes.
[00:28:40] Nicole: But then, then it is tough when certain things happen. And, and I will say there's no other field like, like aesthetics. Like, we are out there on social media- Mm-hmm ... and when something happens, it [00:28:50] is just blasted everywhere.
[00:28:52] Jon: It is. It is.
[00:28:53] Nicole: But I will say, I think more on, like, the regulatory side, like, I do think, and hopefully down the line they can come [00:29:00] up with some kind of, like, I don't know, specialty. You know, like I'm a family nurse practitioner. Maybe we can have an aesthetics nurse practitioner specialty, you know, where my hours are actually in that, [00:29:10] which would be nice.
I wonder
[00:29:10] Jon: if they'll ever do that. I don't-
[00:29:11] Nicole: I know. It would just be nice because then, like how I had the training of-
[00:29:15] Jon: I think they'll have a residency ... Right, right ... I think they'll have
[00:29:17] Nicole: like a f-
[00:29:18] Jon: like a fellowship program.
[00:29:19] Nicole: [00:29:20] Like my, quote-unquote, "residency" was in family care. Yeah. So like I did urgent care. I did, you know- Yes
internal medicine, like which is great, and it, obviously it set me up great. And I, I had my years- [00:29:30] Mm-hmm ... of plastic surgery on my own. But, um, it would be nice if you could go into something where you can do a plastic surgery, surgery rotation, you can do an aesthetics rotation, and you can get that knowledge before you [00:29:40] graduate.
Because then like you said, you're never having to hire brand-new injectors. They all have a little bit of a background. Totally true. You know? Mm-hmm. But, um, I j- I do think they're [00:29:50] trying. Uh, definitely in New Jersey, I know it ruffled some feathers, um- They were... There was a, there was a basically a thing that came out during COVID that nurse practitioners could, could [00:30:00] operate on their own
[00:30:01] Jon: Mm-hmm
[00:30:01] Nicole: Um, but it was for internal medicine to help with- Mm-hmm
the overload of patients. Uh, and then they took that away recently. And then because [00:30:10] they took that away, they started looking at, at rights for NPs, whatever. They gave autonomy to primary care and psychiatric NPs. But if you work in aesthetics, you cannot be your own [00:30:20] medical director- Yeah ... in the state of New Jersey.
[00:30:22] Jon: What a pain in the .
[00:30:24] Nicole: Oh, yep. I'm sorry. Yep, so.
[00:30:25] Jon: It is.
[00:30:27] Nicole: It's just-
[00:30:27] Jon: It's like- ... so different state to state, which sucks. Yeah. [00:30:30] But-
[00:30:30] Nicole: Yeah ...
[00:30:30] Jon: it is what it is. Um-
[00:30:31] Nicole: But it, I mean, it was just shocking to me. Like, if you, if we trust NPs to take care of the whole body as a whole in primary care- Yep ... and prescribe medications [00:30:40] like that, we don't trust them- Yeah
to, to do that- Oh, yeah ... with aesthetic medicine. I don't know. But-
[00:30:44] Jon: Yeah ... so,
[00:30:44] Nicole: yeah, we'll see, we'll see how that progresses in New Jersey, and it's s- same for many states, but I know in New York you guys [00:30:50] are, you guys are lucky to have autonomy, but...
[00:30:52] Jon: For now. Yeah.
[00:30:53] Nicole: Yeah.
[00:30:54] Jon: Um, now Nicole and I were just at Aesthetic Extender- Mm-hmm
[00:31:00] Symposium, uh, down in Boca. Uh, if you guys have heard of it, you guys should really... Or if you guys have gone, go again. It is honestly, truly, I love [00:31:10] AMSPA. Mm-hmm. I love Aesthetic Extender. Those are honestly the top two in my opinion.
[00:31:15] Nicole: I think they're the top two for networking as well. Like, they have- Networking, speakers
so [00:31:20] many events
[00:31:20] Jon: The content.
[00:31:21] Nicole: Yes. Yep, yep. But it's-
[00:31:22] Jon: The live injections.
[00:31:24] Nicole: Like- The live injections at, at Este- Aesthetic Extender were-
[00:31:27] Jon: It was great ...
[00:31:28] Nicole: incredible. Like, you could... You would [00:31:30] step out of, like, a lecture happening, and there'd be, like, a little- Yeah ... like live injection going on. Yes. And you're like, "Wait a minute.
What am I missing?" You know?
[00:31:35] Jon: Yeah, at all the booths, and then there was, like, there was on stage, and then there were in booth present-... Like, it was really- Mm-hmm ... [00:31:40] really good. And that's what providers wanna see. They wanna see- Yep ... the live injections.
[00:31:44] Nicole: Yep.
[00:31:44] Jon: So, you know, for any conference that doesn't have a lot of live injections-
[00:31:49] Nicole: Mm-hmm [00:31:50]
[00:31:50] Jon: I think that's where the feedback will say, "Eh, it was okay- Yeah
but we wanna see, like-
[00:31:55] Nicole: The actual ...
[00:31:55] Jon: hands-on."
[00:31:56] Nicole: Yeah.
[00:31:56] Jon: You know?
[00:31:56] Nicole: Yeah. Let's, let's give it up to you for a second for [00:32:00] killing your first- Oh ... big debut.
[00:32:02] Jon: Oh, God. Thank
[00:32:03] Nicole: you. John did such- I don't know ... a good job, you guys. He injected live on stage. Well, he didn't just inject, he also carried the program with Brandis, [00:32:10] Brandis Harrison.
Brandis
[00:32:10] Jon: Harrison. Yeah.
[00:32:11] Nicole: She's incredible, by the way. We love her to death.
[00:32:12] Jon: She's great.
[00:32:13] Nicole: Um, you two- It was- ... on stage, your chemistry was just amazing.
[00:32:17] Jon: Oh, it's so fun. It's, it's so fun to talk about [00:32:20] things that you love to do, and-
[00:32:21] Nicole: Mm-hmm ...
[00:32:21] Jon: honestly, like, I was actually more nervous leading up to it just to get on stage.
[00:32:27] Nicole: Yes. Yep, and then
[00:32:28] Jon: more- Once, like, I was on there- ... like, those first three
[00:32:29] Nicole: minutes pass- ... I was like, "Oh" ... [00:32:30] you're good. Yep.
[00:32:31] Jon: Oh, my God. It's like, okay, let me hear my name. Let me go up there.
[00:32:34] Nicole: Oh.
[00:32:34] Jon: Yep, yep. Let me walk out, and then you're
[00:32:35] Nicole: good. Let me just do it. Yep. No, you, you- Yeah ... did amazing. I told John, I'm like, "You found your calling.
You're [00:32:40] gonna be- At
[00:32:40] Jon: home ...
[00:32:41] Nicole: on so many more stages."
[00:32:42] Jon: It's such a calling. It's so fun.
[00:32:45] Nicole: Yeah.
[00:32:46] Jon: It's, like, such a high. Yeah. It's like riding a rollercoaster-
[00:32:48] Nicole: Yep ...
[00:32:48] Jon: and then afterwards, you're like, "When's the [00:32:50] next one?"
[00:32:50] Nicole: Yep.
You know? Oh, no, you
[00:32:54] Jon: did- Especially- ... you did absolutely incredible ... especially injecting. And you've injected on stage-
[00:32:58] Nicole: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah ...
[00:32:58] Jon: for [00:33:00] Cotafaña.
[00:33:00] Nicole: Yeah. That
[00:33:00] Jon: was crazy. Yeah, and you, after, I know you were nervous, but, like, after, you were like, "Wow." Oh. "
[00:33:04] Nicole: That was great." It was the best thing I've ever done. Yeah.
[00:33:06] Jon: I know. Yeah.
[00:33:06] Nicole: So cool.
[00:33:07] Jon: So- Yeah ... way more opportunities there, too.
[00:33:09] Nicole: Yeah. We're very [00:33:10] lucky to be a part of stuff like that, so.
[00:33:11] Jon: Yes, yes. And I think- More to
[00:33:13] Nicole: come.
[00:33:13] Jon: Well, and I think, too, if you are someone who's listening in who is interested in being on main stage or [00:33:20] being on podium, and-
[00:33:21] Nicole: Mm-hmm ...
[00:33:21] Jon: all of that, I... You have to Really just you have to go to these conferences, and you have to meet people, say [00:33:30] hi, introduce yourself- Yep
show your personality, you know, have a social media presence. I'm sorry, but you do.
[00:33:36] Nicole: You do, yep.
[00:33:37] Jon: And, and you have to just put [00:33:40] yourself in the room with the right people-
[00:33:41] Nicole: Yep ...
[00:33:42] Jon: sometimes. Don't you think, Nicole?
[00:33:43] Nicole: I absolutely agree.
[00:33:45] Jon: And sometimes we're tired. I get it. But, like- But you have to show
[00:33:48] Nicole: face ... you do want it and- Yep
[00:33:48] Jon: because I think there was [00:33:50] one part, one stage of my life that I was like- Mm-hmm ... "Ugh, I'm struggling. Like, I wanna get- Yeah ... on there, but, like, it's just not coming." Mm-hmm. And then I got, got out of my head, and I was like, "All right. Let me put in the work," you know? Yep. [00:34:00] And once I put in the work, you know, the opportunities started coming, coming in.
So- No, and,
[00:34:04] Nicole: and it's... I say it every day. It's about who you surround yourself with. 'Cause if you- It is ... if you're surrounding yourself with people that are getting up there and [00:34:10] always challenging themselves and always doing more- Like-minded
[00:34:11] Jon: go-getters Yes. Yep. Right? Mm-hmm. Don't complain.
[00:34:14] Nicole: Mm-hmm. If
[00:34:14] Jon: you're around negative people, it's never gonna happen.
You just wanna be- Yep ... around positive people. Yep.
[00:34:18] Nicole: Yep. Like, I think about all the, the [00:34:20] amount I've had to travel since having Avery. But, like, if I don't put my face out there- Oh, yeah ... if I don't do these things and network and- You've done so
[00:34:26] Jon: much as a mother ...
[00:34:28] Nicole: and, like, traveling, you know? Yeah. But it's [00:34:30] like you h- you have to.
And like, like, I was so excited to hang out with you guys, but of course it's hard to leave- Oh, my God ... you know? Yes. But, um, it is. It's about you have to put your face out there, and you have to be- You do ... [00:34:40] willing, you have to be willing to do those things in order to, to grow, 100%. I
[00:34:44] Jon: agree with you. Totally.
Well- Well, to summarize- ... this was a fun episode Yeah. To summarize.
[00:34:49] Nicole: To [00:34:50] summarize, it doesn't matter how many followers they have.
[00:34:52] Jon: Yes. It's true. Get on social media.
[00:34:55] Nicole: Yep, yep. And post away- Right ... because y- even if you have 50 followers, [00:35:00] it's still gonna help you bring patients in the door.
[00:35:02] Jon: Yes.
[00:35:03] Nicole: Um- Couldn't agree more
weekend courses, they matter, and they are necessary, but I wouldn't consider yourself, like, ready to open your own practice after taking one. It [00:35:10] definitely takes time to have patients and models and feel- Yeah ... confident. Right, what do they say? Con- confidence is not competence. Is that the saying?
[00:35:19] Jon: Yes.
[00:35:19] Nicole: Just, [00:35:20] just because you're confident doesn't mean you're competent?
I don't know.
[00:35:22] Jon: Yes. No, it's true. Right?
[00:35:23] Nicole: Right. Like,
[00:35:23] Jon: fake it till you make it kinda thing. Yeah. Like, just- Yeah ... yep. I get it. Yep.
[00:35:26] Nicole: Um, and oh, this is a good one actually that we didn't talk about, [00:35:30] and then- Mm ... and then we'll stop yapping. Because we mentioned weekend courses, what does appropriate training actually look like?
[00:35:38] Jon: Appropriate training
[00:35:39] Nicole: Yeah, [00:35:40] like, like, so I'll say, I'll say my training, right? So I-
[00:35:43] Jon: Say your
[00:35:44] Nicole: training. I started, I started in... I was lucky enough, so I went to school. I went and [00:35:50] got my aesthetics license, which is- Uh-huh ... not necessary, but as a nurse back then, there was really no way to get into this. Uh-huh.
So I was like, "Let me get my aesthetics license." It's how I got my foot in the door in plastic surgery. I get the plastic surgery j- also [00:36:00] because I'm a med surg certified nurse. Um- Yep ... which I don't uphold anymore. That lapsed last year. But, so I start working as a plastic surgery nurse, and that's where I started to [00:36:10] gain my training.
I got to see stuff in surgery. He trained me in injectables. I didn't touch an actual patient for six to nine months. I had models. I would come in early. [00:36:20] Guys, I also worked like 60-hour weeks. I'm not even messing around. Mm-hmm. I signed my life away in the best way. I did it so I could get training, but I worked like, no joke, 60-hour weeks.
I would come in [00:36:30] early. I would do models. I would go into surgery. I would, uh, follow the injectors, whatever. I didn't touch an actual patient for about six months. So I just think everywhere is different. Not everyone's gonna have that. Mm-hmm. You [00:36:40] know, not everyone's gonna get that kind of training, but I was lucky enough to, and I felt more confident because I felt competent in what I had learned because I had- Uh-huh
so long to learn it, and [00:36:50] anyone that I was touching wasn't really a paying patient because- Mm-hmm ... in my opinion, they shouldn't have been, because I really didn't know what I was doing yet.
[00:36:56] Jon: Mm-hmm.
[00:36:56] Nicole: Um, but I think models, having models, and [00:37:00] having a mentor is a really good way to get appropriate training.
[00:37:04] Jon: Yes, and I have, uh...
I off- I host private trainings for my [00:37:10] staff- Mm-hmm ... I would say at least two- Mm-hmm ... maybe three times a year just to make sure that they're up to date, competent, and, um, making sure that they're doing things [00:37:20] the right way, and-
[00:37:20] Nicole: Yep ...
[00:37:21] Jon: um, just following up, and they have a ton of questions, too. Mm-hmm. I mean, we're seeing patients day in and day out, and I'm sure they have so many questions throughout the day, but they just don't have time because- [00:37:30] Right
we're seeing patients.
[00:37:31] Nicole: And even when, even like me and John, like I watched him inject on stage the other day, and I, I took stuff away that I'm gonna change in my injection technique. So it's like- Mm-hmm ... it's trainings [00:37:40] matter for everyone, not just because you're brand new. Are you smiling at Corey?
[00:37:44] Jon: At Fran.
[00:37:44] Nicole: Oh, hi,
[00:37:46] Jon: Franny. Oh, Franny. [00:37:50] Hold on Oh my gosh, she cracks me up. For those of you that are listening again, this is
[00:37:55] Nicole: Fran Put her on. Give her, give her an ear pod. Oh
[00:37:57] Jon: my God, I can't. Why is it not open? Oh, [00:38:00] it was open.
[00:38:01] Nicole: Oh.
[00:38:01] Jon: Fran, do you wanna say hi to the podcast?
[00:38:03] Nicole: Hi, Fran. Yes,
[00:38:05] Jon: this is Fran Scuteri.
[00:38:09] Nicole: Oh, my goodness.
[00:38:09] Jon: Yes, and you're [00:38:10] hearing my dogs. She owns Medicine Based Beauty-
[00:38:12] Nicole: Yeah ...
[00:38:12] Jon: in Syracuse.
[00:38:13] Nicole: She's the best.
[00:38:14] Jon: Yep.
[00:38:14] Nicole: Hi, guys. Has hosted
[00:38:15] Jon: trainings with Leslie Fletcher, Raseem, Erica. Yes, yes. Yep, and she's our neighbor. [00:38:20]
[00:38:20] Nicole: Come to Syracuse, we'll do something fun.
[00:38:20] Jon: Yeah, I know. She's...
[00:38:22] Nicole: She's John's lake house neighbor.
[00:38:24] Jon: Yes, she is.
Yep. I love it.
[00:38:27] Nicole: But, um-
[00:38:28] Jon: Oh, my God. Yeah.
[00:38:29] Nicole: Yeah. Don't be afraid to [00:38:30] ask questions before people inject you, and I mean- Yep ... that's, that's that.
[00:38:36] Jon: Yeah, proper training for me, you gotta do a cadaver in the beginning. Mm-hmm. At, [00:38:40] I would say at least yearly the first couple years. I think that's important. Yeah. And I think to do some Allergan trainings, Galder- any, any products that [00:38:50] you have in the office, if you're- Mm-hmm
you know, using them, you know, you have to talk to your medical director or your boss to see if you can do, you know, some trainings with them- Mm-hmm ... just to do, [00:39:00] keep up to date on, you know... And, and also meet some of these injectors that have been injecting for years-
[00:39:06] Nicole: Right, right. Pick their brain, yep ...
[00:39:07] Jon: and learn from their techniques, and pick their brain.
And [00:39:10] sometimes it's hard, like, you're in your little bubble where you are, so- Mm-hmm ... having these trainings really helps to, you know, you know, to think outside the bubble and not keep you so isolated. Mm-hmm. So, [00:39:20] I think that's important. And I think going to conferences. Pick two conferences a year-
[00:39:23] Nicole: Yep ...
[00:39:24] Jon: go to them.
Mm-hmm. You can do two a year.
[00:39:26] Nicole: Yep.
[00:39:27] Jon: If it's too much, do at least one, but two is [00:39:30] great.
[00:39:30] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:39:30] Jon: And- No, so
[00:39:31] Nicole: true. Yeah. Um, I will say, until I started doing those conferences, I felt a little, like, stagnant and stuck in my injector career. Yes. You know? Yes. And then I started going, and I [00:39:40] met people like you and the friend group that I have now.
Yeah. And then you, you're with like-minded people. Mm-hmm. It changes everything. It totally does. Changes everything. Yep. I couldn't agree more. Yep. Mm-hmm. Uh, all right, guys. Well, on that[00:39:50]
note- This was a great episode, yes. This was
[00:39:51] Jon: a great episode. Thanks for tuning in. We love you guys, and please continue to comment on our reels on Instagram, message us. We love it. [00:40:00] We love the, you know, the collaboration, and just, uh, it's the best.
[00:40:04] Nicole: Yeah, and hopefully we see you guys soon at some conferences coming up with Moxie.
[00:40:08] Jon: Yeah. Yes, I can't wait. [00:40:10]
[00:40:10] Nicole: All right, guys. Bye.
[00:40:12] Jon: Bye, till next [00:40:20] time.