"Oh, I've seen the nights filled with bloodsport and pain" today we know pleasures as we listen to the post-punk classic UNKNOWN PLEASURES (1979) by JOY DIVISION, with Jacob and Sean!

Unknown Pleasures is the debut studio album by the English rock band Joy Division. It was released on 15 June 1979 through Factory Records.[4] The album was recorded and mixed over three successive weekends at Stockport's Strawberry Studios in April 1979, with producer Martin Hannett contributing a number of unconventional recording techniques to the group's sound. The cover artwork was designed by artist Peter Saville, using a data plot of signals from a radio pulsar.[5] It is the only Joy Division album released during lead singer Ian Curtis's lifetime.

Unknown Pleasures - Wikipedia

Transcript

0:00

very pelt and i was just like. that's number 2. am i number 2? orange, orange. who's number 3? i'm number 3. you know who's number one? america, america. they're number one. yeah, they're number one in incarceration, yeah. and uh, they're number one. and what else i looked up? one where it was our states compared to like countries. and nebraska is like just above Turkmenistan, which is apparently the North Korea of Central Asia. Oh, the North Korea. We're better than the North Korea of Central Asia in regard to incarceration. America, Welcome to Side One. Side B. I'm Dave, I'm Steve I'm Sean. And today we have I'm Jacob. I am, I am him. I am the one who is the Jacob. I am him. Oh man, This is gonna be a long one. No one will arrest you until Steve kisses you, Judas, Judas, You betrayed me Anyways. So what's the scoop here, fellas? What's the scoop? Poop? Today we are going to listen to some really sad music and try not to engage in any self-harm while we do it. What do you guys know about Joy Division? An awful lot, actually. I know very little about them. actually, I think I hear, or maybe I assume that they are. Am I correct in saying proto-goth? Yeah, proto-goth or post-punk or both, Probably both. Where post-punk ends, proto-goth starts, There's a bridge between. Or is it the other way around? They're like a bridge between the Sex Pistols and Bauhaus would be a good way to look at them. Yeah, I wouldn't. I would say there wouldn't have been a lot of post-punk, or if it wasn't for Joy Division, because they kind of started that stripped down sound with like. you know, because you've, you said you heard Love Will Tear Us Apart. Yeah, You know, Love Will Tear Us Apart, Lisa, i've. i heard that movie. there was a movie called wrist cutters, a love story with patrick fugit and the gal from the dark knight. and then even tom waits has a cameo. oh nice, i've seen that movie. the guy, uh, is that the one where the guy kills himself and he goes to the afterlife? it's like a shittier version, gray or hotter version, boring version of life. yeah, um, or well, back in 2000, what 7 or whatever? when it came out, that sounds awesome. what i wouldn't give for the? no, i'm totally joking. but uh, there's, that's that song comes up a lot in. uh, that movie, that movie, is very good, by the way. i highly recommend it. it's called wrist cutters, wrist cutters. yeah, it's a solid 2 out of 2, like i saw that one when i came out. yeah, it's good. tom waits is in it, he's hilarious. tom waits is great in every movie, i'm not, i can't think of a bad tom waits movie. yeah, can you? i'm sure, i'm sure he's been in a bad movie, but i'm sure he did a good job. and what in the bad movie? yeah, that's that's fair. yeah, um, i, uh, i first heard joy division. actually, uh,

it was honest, I used to listen to Pandora. hmm, like I put on, like the Pixies station, and they would do, like random songs. and first song I heard was: 4:06

she's lost control, good one, live. actually, though, it was a live version of it, which i kind of like the like. i think, maybe because i heard it first, i do like live versions of some of their songs, better than the recorded version. yeah, because it has more energy. but we'll get into that. some, i think, yeah, yeah, but like that, that's also, uh, a key of like. what the sound is of um joy, joy divisions, recording sessions. they kind of yeah, but yeah, so, like, that was the first song i heard. and then i'm like, okay, i guess i like that i got, i want and i like, got stuck in my head because it's like she's lost control. um, i'm spoiling the album. yeah, uh, i have, i have, i don't really. uh, what was i gonna say when you guys say post-punk? can we clarify to the listener? uh, what groups classify as post-punk? Yeah, the post-punk would be the bands that started out within the punk scene or came together just after the punk scene, that were influenced by it but were doing more moody or arty music than what the UK punk scene was. Some examples of other bands other than Troy Division, who did that kind of thing would be The Cure, Suzy and the Banshees Magazine. Public Image Limited Does, like a birthday party and the bad seeds kind of fit into that category, Especially birthday party. Yeah, definitely All right cool. Killing joke, Killing joke. I've never really heard killing joke. I wish to do one of theirs. Yeah, we do. I have. I have nighttime on vinyl and I'm planning on on doing that, Because that has a Nirvana song on it. What Nirvana song? Eighties? The song Eighties came out before, Nevermind, and the riff sounds like Come As You Are. Oh, Kurt, They didn't want to release it as a single because they were nervous that people would put that together. There's a song by The Damned that came out before the eighties. that sounds a lot like- And I have that record on vinyl too. so we might just do 3 episodes in a row with Strawberries by the Damned, Nighttime by Killing Joke and Nevermind by Nirvana, so that we listen to the same song 3 times Or the same riff. Things are bound to happen. There's only. there's only 12 notes. Yeah, Yeah, it's a look. but there there's little deviations between. they just have the same kind of tone. Yeah, and like um, they start out the denim in it, like you know, don't know. But yeah, well, I know that Kurt Cobain

very original, but if you listen close enough, you can really hear his influences. that's not a dig on Kurt Cobain, he's very. I hold him in high regard. I was in a guitar lesson the other day and I said: 7:29

Siri, how old would have Kurt Cobain been today? and she goes, Kurt Cobain would have been 20, 7 years old, and I was like, oh god, that's pretty dark, Siri, come on, Forever 27, Forever 27. yeah, Speaking of Kurt Cobain, this band also had a singer that killed himself. Ah, influence, One of his influences, Kurt Cobain's influences, Although Ian Curtis was a lot younger. I think he was like 22. Yeah, he was only 22. Curtis, kurt cobain. yeah, i mean curtis. yeah, all right, yeah, yeah, ian curtis. well, he might have, i don't know you, i think you. yeah, he was like in his early twenties he wasn't. i hope this isn't too dark for our uh podcast. but what was ian curtis's uh method? he hung himself listening to the idiot by iggy pop. whoa, I'll never listen to that song the same way again And I'm going to make sure that I'm seated. Oh, he was 23. Yeah, Yeah, Good Lord, That was so long ago. I mean, from my perspective, when I was 203 he was, it was in 19, 80 He killed himself. So he killed himself like they were. They hadn't released their second album, yet It was. it was already in the can, though It was about to be released, and they were about to do their first USA tour. Yeah, and I, and like he was having major issues with his wife, and like, so, like, the level of terrorism part is kind of based off of his uh, failing marriage. he's failing marriage, you know, like the bedroom's so cold, you know. and then like so, yeah, i mean let's like knowing the outcome of the band is kind of like, really like, oh my god, like. that's why it's so down and like. but it's kind of funny looking at pictures of them, because they were they sounded goth, but they didn't look goth. They looked like working-class kids from Manchester, because that's what they were. Yeah, Like, Ian Curtis was like a civil servant And like. Have you ever heard of the legendary Manchester Sex Pistols show that, like, only a handful of people were at? but everyone who was there started a band. Yeah, they were out there. band? yeah, he was. they were out there. yeah, like all the members of joy division, like the members of the buzzcocks and magazine, especially especially howard devoto, who was in both. uh, He was the original lead singer for the Buzzcocks, who quit after their first EP to go to college, and then formed Magazine, which was basically like a prog band with cheap instruments and playing prog like it's punk. They're one of the better post-punk bands too. I'll probably do their real-life album on the podcast at some point. I've never listened to them at all. Yeah, I haven't either. Yeah, and then Buzzcocks were also part of that Manchester scene. They are the best pop-punk band. They did Beatles pop just straightforward as punk songs. The Buzzcocks, Yeah, They did Ever Fall in Love. and Orgasmatic and Boredom. I thought Orgasm and Boredom. What is it called Orgasmatic, Orgasmatic and Boredom? Yes, 2 different songs, 2 different Joy Division songs. Oh, no, Buzzcocks, Oh, Buzzcocks, Those 2 things kind of They might be related. Yeah, But yeah, the. I thought that was an orgasmatic, but it turns out it was just really boring. Yeah, Manchester, you know like. well, London, was a vibrant cultural center and so, like the London punk scene was like, kind of like immediate and just like full of like energy and excitement. Manchester was a depressing factory town. Oh, just like my favorite man, Black Sabbath from the depressing factory town of Birmingham. Yeah, that's what England just sounds like. It sounds like London, and then depressing factory towns like Liverpool is a shipping town or something like that Like. yeah, tell the Beatles, put it on the map. Yeah. And so, like the. a lot of the people in the punk and post-punk scene in Manchester were a little bit older and like they were like. like. Although they started, like you know, they were on that first Sex Pistols show and were on the first stage. It just kind of took them a while to get going. Yeah, and actually they actually started out as a punk band And they have some recordings, but their original name was actually Warsaw. Yeah, And They had to change their name because there's another band called Warsaw Pact, which is a really good band, and I wish they had caught on more. But, yeah. So they changed their name to Joy Division after the brothels made up of Jewish prisoners in the concentration camps. So they were young and edgy and, making references to the Holocaust, They said that they were doing it to take the sides of the victims. but it also is kind of inappropriate, kind of like the song final solution by peruvia, which we listened to a couple weeks ago. yeah, well, and it's funny because, like, they didn't really learn their lesson with that either, because the next band, after eating curse, killed himself. was called new order, yeah, which is also kind of a reference to the nazis. geez, oh, for 2, yeah, i know. yeah, what they will say is they saw a headline about something that was unrelated to the nazis. that said, a new order. when talking about, like, some political regime somewhere, they're like, oh, we're a new group, we're a new order, yeah, but, uh, yeah, so, but like, uh, yeah, that's kind of the history. like you said, they were at that manchester show. uh, they started the punk band warsaw, and they actually did record some stuff under warsaw, yeah, and i think it was released later, after, uh, like, after, because they only actually did 2 albums, yeah, and they had a couple of singles. yeah, like the warsaw stuff was on, Like the Ideal for Living EP, And it sounds more like standard punk. Steve has heard one of those songs because it was on a punk compilation. You remember the Joy Division song that got you banned from Reddit? I'm not telling that story again. No, yeah, yeah, I didn't hear it. Oh God. So someone, someone on Reddit, was in denial about Nazi origins of the term joy division, And Steve gotten an argument with him. I didn't even get an argument with him. I just I posted the link to the pump comp. the mod of the new order subreddit said that we must have like a sixth sense of humor or something like that. I forget exactly what he said, And then I asked him to elaborate on it, and then he just banned me. And then I, i i tried to bait him into coming to our subreddit to explain himself and then he just reported to me to write it for harassment and i got banned from the entire site. how dare you talk about joy divisions, nazi origins? And then I could tell he visited my website like 3 times. So I don't know if you realize that you, I don't know whatever, I don't know. Yeah, You have your own personal stalker. Yeah, That was a long time ago And it could be outside masturbating. right now We do better numbers, Or even in the house We do better numbers. Or maybe it's me on the couch, Maybe it's Maybelline. We do better numbers now than when we posted on Reddit anyway, so it's not like we really needed it. But fuck Reddit. Well, I think a big reason I got banned is because I would post links to the podcast in a bunch of subreddits. So I think I don't know. Reddit has some weird problem with self-promotion,

Whereas Facebook's like: 16:09

yeah, whatever, Dump whatever you want into Facebook, We don't care, We'll bury it, It will not see the light of day, Unless you pay us to boost the post. Surprisingly, I stopped posting on Facebook groups for a while because I didn't think it mattered, but we actually did lose downloads after I stopped doing that. so I started doing it again. Oh nice, but anyway, uh, what we're going to talk about today is unknown, unknown pleasures. joy division's first album. this is the one before ian was so depressed that he became less functional, like. i think he would have probably lived a happy life if, after this album, he decided, decided to retire from music and focus on fixing his brain. um, my main source for a lot of this is the uh joy division biography, which is called. it's a really long name, so i need to look it up. uh, he also suffered from epilepsy. so, um, he had like, and also that also made him really depressed because, like he would be on stage and all of a sudden have an epileptic fit and, uh, you know, like a seizure and stuff. so he would. he got really depressed about that And like, yeah, he did. He. this was a kind of a downer. Yeah, I feel bad for the guy, Like you know. I wish he could, like you said, could have got the help that he needed. you know, Yeah, The name of the book that I'm mainly basing, what I'm going to say actually about the band, is called the searing light, the sun and everything else, by John Savage. It's like an oral history of the band, where he interviewed everyone who was involved in it.

I'd read that: 18:07

Yeah, It's, it's good,

all right. well, so this is the album that everybody has the t-shirt of. yes, i look, it's my favorite uh t-shirt. my favorite t-shirt is the one that says: 18:09

oh, no, i, oh, uh, we all know what the cover looks like. but yeah, jacob, i forget what it was, but i remember watching a show at one time where, like a character got mad at another character that always wore joy division shirts and he's like, we get it, you're a joy division fan. oh yeah, that was what was that? i can't think of it. i i don't know. anyways, love will tear us apart. not on this one. no, that one was not released on an album they were famous for if they released a song as a single, not including it on an album, and if they would have put it on an album, it would have been on their next one, this, that song hadn't been written yet. but, uh, Because, yeah, that was around the time of their second album when they did that one. So all these songs will be brand new to you, Jacob. Well, I think I might have heard. Yeah, a lot of these will be very new to me. I think I've heard She's Lost Control, because when you were saying that I was like, oh, maybe I've heard that song, I don't know. I will announce in a very excited tone, If any of if I recognize any of these, you'll hear it, You'll hear, you'll feel my wrath. They didn't like the idea of making fans pay for the same song twice. So, like what I consider to be their best song, atmosphere was, uh, released, on a French language like on a French only single that they couldn't even, that they even had a hard time getting a hold of in the UK because it's like. well, we released it once, Don't need to release it again.

They released a UK single for it in 19, 80, 8 when they put out the the substance compilation of all their singles and they realized: 19:56

hey, people aren't hearing the singles anymore, They just know the 2 albums. So I think Substance, along with Unknown Pleasures, along with Closer. I consider Substance to be a part of their whole discography. So listen to all 3. There's a Rarities compilation called Still, which is pretty good, but it being a rarities compilation, there's a. there's a few half finished songs on it, So it doesn't flow quite as well. but I like your optimism, half finished. Yeah, I have a lot of half unfinished songs. Yeah, Well, the funny thing is like there was one of the songs that's on still is a live track of the song ceremony, where the first verse is completely garbled because of the sound system And no one in a new order afterwards knew the lyrics to the first verse. So they wrote their own and released it as their first single. So like the, in a way like one of the very last Joy Division songs, was the very first New Order song. So there's some continuity with all that. That's some serious lore. Yeah, Well, it's just one of my favorite bands. Like you were saying too, their live sound was always kind of bad because a lot of times they would have the vocal mic plugged into the guitar amp or something like that, like they, just because they didn't have much equipment. so it was. yeah, it was. they usually didn't have great sound live. we had to do that one year at skate fest. yeah, plug the vocal mic into just. i think it was diggers guitar, am, wasn't it? yeah, well, and we'll talk a little bit about how their sound developed after i listened to the side, because i think it'll make more sense to explain it after we've listened to it. but we'll get started. uh, steve, can you describe the iconic cover?

it looks like mountains kind of. does it say who the artist is? no, it does on the back. what does it say on the back? it just says: 21:58

joy division, unknown pleasures. fact ten are a factory records product and it was made in germany. the, uh, It's sound waves. Yeah, it's sound waves. I always thought it was mountains or something. No, it's sound waves, It's a seismic sound wave. I'm going to get my iron out, Iron my joy division. It was designed by Peter Saville, who was Factory Records, was their label. It was part of the Factory Club. There's a huge scene surrounding it. that the whole Manchester scene was a part of. The inner sleeve is a door with a creepy, glowing hand going towards the door handle. scary. yeah, very suggestive. what does it mean to you listeners? a nuclear aliens coming to abduct me? yeah, but yeah, maybe it's mr burns from that episode where he was. yeah, i wish everyone peace and love. now that i'm back tomorrow you will all be fired. But yeah, on this first side we have- we have to excuse me. On this first side we have Disorder, Day of the Lords, Candidate Insight and we're going to close out the side with New Dawn Fades. According to the credits, we have Words and Music by Joy Division. It was published by Fractured Music, produced by Martin Hannetz, engineered by Chris Nagel, recorded at Strawberry Studios in Stockport, and the sleeve was designed by Joy Division and Peter Saville. Together it was a collaborative effort. Yeah, good job. Oh yeah, Fact 10, a factory records product. I also like it that the Manchester, you know, like big label and club, is called Factory, Just a reference to the industrial wasteland that their town was. I think one of the reasons why I like this band so much is the same reason that Peri-Ubu appeals to me, as it's just born out of the industrial wastes of a decaying city. And with Peri-Ubu it's Cleveland.

I was going to say: 24:28

how dare you say that about Cleveland? Yeah, think of manchester as the cleveland, as the cleveland of the uk. the detroit detroit is more vibrant culturally. oh okay, yeah, i saw somebody describe birmingham as the detroit of, uh, of england. yeah, manchester would be more the cleveland. It sounds like England, except London is the decaying town of somewhere. Yeah, But yeah, we will. We'll get the site started and then we will. We'll be right back, Right back. We will be back after these important messages from our sponsors. Just kidding, We don't have no fucking sponsors. When I need back, I listen to Joy Division. That was good. That one song sounded, like you know, like at the end of a Metallica song after they've been heavy for a while. You know what I mean.

It's like that same kind of minor one: 25:35

flat 7, flat 6, like these guys didn't know like they weren't playing. they just liked the way that felt and i'm sure they weren't like. hey, here's what we're gonna do. we're gonna do the flat 7. yeah, exactly, new dawn fades, new dawn page is the last one. yeah, yeah, That's the one. flat 7, flat 6, that's, uh, that's the chicago. that's their version of chicago's. uh, 40, 5, 25 or 6, 2, 4. i like their version better than the chicago version. yeah, you know, that's why i made. it was a jaunty horn section. oh yeah, all these songs could have done so well if they had a jaunty horn section. chicago led directly to 90 ska. yeah, it was chicago real big for big fish. speaking of jaunty horn sections, i heard that fucking fishbone was in town, oh, last week, and i totally fucking missed it. that would have been. i would have definitely gone to see fishbone. they're great, did you ever see? i'm gonna get you sucka. yeah, yeah, yeah, who the hell's that? that's my backup band, just walking behind the guy like. that's hilarious. and we are back from the first side of unknown pleasures by joy division. what did you all think? i discovered pleasures unknown. no, they're known now. did you open the box and did pinhead show up? yeah, i'll show you such a pleasure. this is, this is kind of the music of like hell, right? you know, like of like the eighties British splatter punk stuff like Clive Barker. and Oh yeah, yeah, I was expecting to really like it, but I was pleasantly surprised with how doomy the atmosphere was on all the songs. Yeah, it has like a doom metal kind of feeling to it I could hear if you added a distant, discordant, distorted guitar, it would turn these probably into doom metal songs. I feel like they had smaller amplifiers than Sleep. They did Smaller and lesser than Now that we've heard it, I'm going to talk about their recording. There's a recording process in their lineup. a little bit. The lineup was Ian Curtis on vocals, uh. bernard sumner on guitar and synths, uh. peter hook on bass and stephen morris on drums. uh, even when they were, even after they had done this, when they're alive, they played these songs without you know all the tape effects and without all the overdubs, uh. and they played at a faster tempo. so they sounded punkier, live, okay, but they still, like. ian curtis was still doing his like jim morrison thing, well, like in the earlier stuff before i figured that out. they sounded. he sounded more like he was doing a johnny rotten thing and like the jim morrison thing is much better for him, like if you listen to like. they're the ideal for living. ap. the vocals are what one of the things that really make a difference. But yeah, Martin Hamnet was their producer and he did a lot of stuff with tape and overdubs and tape effects And most of the band did not like it. at first- Peter Hook is still iffy on it- I was going to say they actually hated it. Yeah, They were like. they thought like they. he ruined their sound because stephen morris liked it though the drummer, oh yeah, yeah, but they they. they thought that because it was slower and like it it wasn't. they said it wasn't representative of how like they were. live and everything. so like like. i did like. uh, i like. there's. so, uh, the like i have like a. i got the anniversary edition of this that has like a live. uh, uh, performance after the album proper. yeah, and it's. it's actually pretty good and it sounds really raw, but it act like the performance is actually like pretty sweet. oh yeah, there there are some. there are some good recordings of their janky small amp set up that sound really good. Yeah, like i was saying uh in between when we're off uh like they used to not have the best setup and like they wouldn't have like uh a pa so they would use a guitar they would plug the vocals into the guitar amp and stuff like that yeah and one of the reasons why so much of like the bass being the lead instrument and played really high up on the neck, was because early on, when Sumner and Hook were first playing together, Sumner had a much better amp than Hook. And so Hook, just to hear himself, would play really high on the neck so that he could make it out under Sumner's guitar, and that kind of developed their sound in a lot of ways. And then Stephen Morris was a machine on drums, like, the way he could, like, stutter and cut out. He was, like, he was big into, like, out of all the bands, he was big into disco and, like, electronic dance music, like G.G.0. Marauder, Donna Summer, Sparks, stuff like that. That's why when, like, New Order started to do more dance stuff and do drum machine stuff he uh he would program the drum machine and play synth on those songs and was still the live drummer like he was a drummer that didn't feel like the drum machines was replacing him because he liked that kind of stuff yeah well and if you listen to his drumming uh it sounds almost machine like yeah like you were kind of pointing out like a lot of the songs were ending jake like you're pointing out where they sound like the drummer kept going oh yeah and that's kind of he was almost like a drum machine in his own way There's a scene like there's a movie about the Manchester band scene called 24 Hour Party People. And there's a scene in that where they just leave Stephen Morris on the roof playing drums while everyone else goes to party. That scene may or may not be true, but it is a good encapsulation of the music. Yeah, let's go track by track. Disorder, the opener. I love this song. It's actually my favorite Joy Division song. It's up there for me. It's not my favorite, but yeah, it's really good. This one is kind of like the fastier, punkier song on the side, too. More up-tempo the great soulful vocal vocal delivery was really good especially at the end that got the spirit yeah that was amazing i like that bass run that was going during the feeling feeling feeling is that where the bass kind of like takes a detour yeah yeah i uh that that was that caught me off guard i i really like this this was like the first kind of time i ever sat down and listened to any joy division you know and I was way, I was, I, I like it a lot. Um, that I, although that part, when the base kind of veers off, I was like, Oh, this is, this is going in a direction I didn't expect to kind of, uh, but you know, I'm not complaining. Yeah. There was a point where it kind of got a little discordant, but, um, which I like, uh, you know, the avant-garde, you know what I mean? Um, I don't think that like a, Like I made the joke earlier, Simon Cowell would hate this album. It's not going to sell records. It's not like anything my grandma would have listened to back in the early sixties. It does not sound like Lawrence Welk. It doesn't sound like Pat Boone. So all you Pat Boone fans out there, beware. This is your warning. Pat Boone had a heavy metal album. I liked all the tape swoops that were throughout it too. Those were cool. Yeah, I made note of that on mine as I like the. Yeah. You guys talking about how. The. they weren't fans of all the tape and kind of ambient noise in the background. I really liked that a lot. Uh, yeah. They're putting, you know, potato or, uh, what am I trying to say? Different strokes for different folks. Potato, potato. Yeah. Which cliche am I going for here? But, uh, and like, yeah. And it's like, it's funny that they didn't like that. Cause to me, that's what makes a lot of the, so influential to the kind of stuff I do. I think like when, you know, there's, when an artist intends it one way, and then the people listening to it kind of interpret it in another way, it just kind of falls where it falls. I could really hear how this influenced a lot of stuff that I like to listen to, you know? They're like, what's it called? They're not Juilliard scholars, it's very clear, but it's filled with, like, such like raw meaning you know what i mean it's so forceful you know i love it yeah um it's beyond just like you know uh what did you say the last time i was here guitar wankery yeah You know, I really liked it a lot. It had real Velvet Underground vibes. I could I bet you these guys were Velvet Underground fans and I really enjoyed hearing that in their music. They were one of the songs they covered live was Sister Ray. Yeah. Yeah. all right there you go uh next up we have day of the lords oh i love this one yeah slow and doomy with some some noisy in there i could uh i could hear like a doom metal band or a desert rock band covering this song yeah probably probably has happened uh i'm just not aware of them it would probably have to be one of the more suicidal ones yeah the guitar intro was cool all of them then yeah well the ones that are extra suicidal yeah i like to like that high little feedback you sense part that one quote i forget who said this but i like it and the way it describes it punk rock was like fuck you joy division took that energy and said i'm fucked yeah Yeah, it's more dreadful, or, like, it's got a lot of existential dread to it, whereas punk music is more kind of, like, rebellious and wanting to kind of change things. Yeah, yeah. This is more wanting to kind of dip out. Yeah, and, like, slowing it down like this, let it kind of build in intensity, and you can really hear, like everything kind of start to layer in and then you can hear like especially like the bass and the vocals start to really get more aggressive by the end yeah like that it does build into a crescendo like And like, you know, yeah, I really liked how it's got that kind of like slow stoned kind of groove to it. And then when it gets to the chorus, there's this real buildy kind of like. Kind of like, you know, the drum beat in the middle of Incinerate, where it's like You could kind of, that kind of quick time kind of bass drum kind of building effect. I really like that a lot. Yeah. I think that the listener may even like it as well. Yes. Incinerate by Sonic. No, I'm talking about Day of the Lords, which preceded Incinerate. Yeah. But Incinerate is a good song if you like Day of the Lords. And if you already like Incinerate, well then I have got a good album for you. Next up we have Candidate, which one thing I really liked about this one was how it kind of faded in. Like it was They took a longer recording and just kind of faded it in at the best point to come in. I liked the guitar feedback on tape that sounded like a train in a tunnel. I just wrote heroin. That's the only thing I wrote about this song. Just like the preceding one, I liked how doomy it was. It had some subtle guitar playing. And the bass was really steady, but once in a while it would deviate and do some interesting fills. To me, this is like the most sparse song on the side. And I remember the first time I heard it, I was like, ooh, it's weird. I, I, cause I knew Ian Curtis had killed himself. So I'm like, wow, this, this does sound like someone that's like ready. On the brink. On the brink. And then, uh, is this based off of Voltaire? Or the candidate? The candidate? I think so. Like Ian Curtis was a reader. Yeah. Yeah. So, I've never read Candidate, so Candideed or whatever. Candideed. Candideed. That's a great read. It's very short and very funny. I read that book an hour before class and was so engrossed in it that I was able to properly participate. Because it's about optimism, right? It's about optimism. Best of all possible worlds. Like, just kind of naivety. Yeah. Yeah. Which is worse than optimism. The worst form of optimism. Next up we have Insight, which is my favorite track on this side. Not my favorite on the record, but my favorite on the first side. I like that layer of tape and synth drums near the beginning. I think this is the best example of Peter Hook playing the bass guitar really high up on the neck. I like When it kind of builds to a crescendo that it does twice, where it does that little, you know, like drum and synth freak out that. Yeah. The part that said reminded you of Sonic Youth. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I could really hear.

you know how this preceded a lot. you can hear this stuff in a lot of bands that i really really like, you know. so i think i need to listen to this album like a few more times. uh, in the next couple of days i wrote, i there was like a kind of jungle: 40:29

beat, noise, freak out, breakdown on the drums that were kind of, i guess, served as like kind of a chorus. yeah, if you will, yeah. That gave me a real, if you're familiar with the song- Murder, Mystery by Velvet Underground, kind of vibes like that which you hear over and over again. I thought it had kind of a dreamlike atmosphere overall and I really liked the part where the synth sounded like lasers. It sounded to me like a big old cloud where lasers were coming out. Space lasers, Space lasers, And finally we have New Dawn Fades, New Dawn Fades. That's a really good way to end the site. I think. Yeah, It had like a wider sound than the. Did the song fade out? Yes, it did, Except for the drums. Oh, that's right, It did the thing that I You were talking about. Yeah, And you know it's also. Oh, you know, I was going to just comment about how sometimes the bass player, like you, ever see those old Daffy Duck cartoons where he's like torturing, like Porky Pig, and then he like, starts going whoa, whoa, And like jumping around the room and everything. Yeah, The bass player will kind of sometimes like detour out into that kind of vibe. you know where? Yeah, Peter Hook is known for being a really good bass player. He's the bass player for the band. He's known for being a bass player or whatever, because he does weird things and goes back into the groove. Who's all the people that are After? um, ian curtis retired from the music industry? yeah, uh, who are the members that did new new order? um, bernard summer took over, sumner took over on vocals and still did guitar hook stayed on bass and stephen moore stayed on drums, and then they added stephen morris's girlfriend. uh on, i think she broke up the band. it was her fault. no, that's a joke, yeah, but like this is one of the like. this is one of the cases where adding the drummers, or the other examples- talking heads, adding the drummer's girlfriend to the lineup, actually worked. it somehow worked in fleetwood mac too, yeah, but yeah, it worked until it didn't work, yeah, And then she was everybody's girlfriend. And then, well, they think they all kind of. That was the summer of love, man. 19 78. Whenever they recorded that album- Ah yes, The summer of love. 19, 708 I always thought it was the most distorted sounding song on the side. You were actually able to pick out what kind of bass he was playing. Yes, it's a Rickenbacker, the bass of my dreams. And this is when the Rickenbacker was just like the cheap The thing that you got at the pawn shop. Yeah, For dirt cheap and, like every British punk band, had it until they could afford a P-Bass. That's like the American version or the British version of my grandpa got a, you know, a fifty four Telecaster from the pawn shop back in the early sixties. You know what I mean.

I know Geddy Lee used to play a Rickenbacker bass and everybody's like: 44:13

why'd you stop playing that? And he's like because it's big and heavy. And yeah, jazz bass isn't. It hurts my back. Actually that's kind of funny because, McCartney, he originally played The Hoffner. Yeah, he played the Hoffner bass And then, like He, they like Rickenbacker, gave him a bass and he like said he didn't feel like he was playing bass until he actually started playing that Rickenbacker. Oh, really, Because it like like. he was playing the violin bass, the Hofstra bass, And it was so light and like it was like playing a guitar. And then he said it was like an anchor. yeah, as the base is in concept. yeah, you know, that's cool. so he's like he didn't start feeling like he was playing bass until he started playing a rickenbacker bass. what the so, are we talking about new dawn fades? i'm always in search of songs that have the um one flat, 7, flat, 6, flat, 5, chord progression. A few examples are Chicago's 25 or 64, Green Day's brain. What is a brain? stew? Yeah, Yeah. And then I think even what's that?

um, hit the road jack. oh yeah, it's like that, you know. and then there's charles. what's the one by led zeppelin? babe, i'm gonna leave. yeah, baby, i'm gonna leave you i. so this is: 45:32

uh, new order has solidified their uh names in the books. yeah, you know what i mean. and since we got off track, jillian gilbert was the name of the uh, of stephen morris's girlfriend, who played guitar and synthesizer for new order. uh, once they formed.

so i saw new order at a music festival in and it was: 45:59

uh, it's pretty cool. so i'm i. i bet you, or it's possible, that i had. i did hear one or 2 of these songs at that. i'm assuming you know they tend to play level terrace apart. and she lost control at a lot of new order sets, okay in the atmosphere. but um, speaking of, she lost control. our next side is, that is the opener, our good side. yeah, I like side 2 a little more. We'll get into why after you listen to it. But yeah, it is. She's lost control. Shadow play, Wilderness enters zone which, yes, is a William Burroughs reference. And closing out, I remember nothing. I remember nothing. I bet you get nothing You lose. Good day, sir. I bet before he was a bassist, Peter Hook was a pirate. So good, He does that a lot. He does that in Wild at Heart a lot where it's just a camera watching the road go by as they're driving. You know what I mean, But that seems like that's a driving song. You said that other song was a song where you can imagine driving in a rainstorm. That's a song where you take a long, fast drive off of a cliff. Yeah, Yeah, that really describes that song very well, yeah, and it even ends with a crash. yeah, there's like crashing and destruction. noise, uh, all strewn throughout the background of that last song, which we will talk about, which we will discuss a little bit, about their literary influences too, though, like they were, like ian curtis was a reader, he was like a big fan of, like william burroughs and jg ballard and all these, like depressing novelists who wrote, uh, quasi science fiction. uh, books about urban decay and people being isolated and all that. so you can definitely hear that and all of these. but, yes, we are back from side b of unknown pleasures by joy division, which was fantastic in my opinion. what did the rest of you think? yeah, that's my favorite album, or side of the album, and that's no slide against the first side of the album, but it's just it would the whole thing had like each song had like a different kind of darkness applied to it. yeah, it's a pretty dark album.

i could. i could really like um kind of lurk in my gloom to this album, and i love it how it started, how it started and ended with lurking in the gloom. but it was like slowly, you know, like the set by the second song. it was like: 48:37

let's introduce a little bit of the punk energy from the live show into this. they kept introducing more of it and more of it until the second to last song, and then, for the last one, it's like okay, full back into the gloom, we're back into the glue. yeah,

It's like that. one song is like: 49:04

hey, even though we've been brooding in our gloom for what seems like an eternity, we are still angry. Yeah, We forget, we are still actually angry. Yeah, Yeah, I feel like I just love the flow of this side and how it also then incorporated the energy of their lives set into it, without fully getting rid of all you know, like the studio atmosphere too. Yeah, I mean the whole album in general is like a, for me, one of those no skip albums. Oh yeah, Every track, like every track, is like an essential kind of like, you know, not every album is like a no skip yeah album, but this is definitely one of my no skip albums. i feel like once i get more used to this album, it'll be one of those things where, if i hear any given song off of this record, i will like be uncomfortable by not hearing the next one. yeah, like there's some pink floyd albums where, when i hear one of their songs on the radio, i'm like now i got like pink floyd blue balls. That's oftentimes why, if I hear another brick in the wall on the radio, I change the station Because you're expecting the next song after that. Yeah, and it just doesn't make sense without the entire wall album around it. Yeah, that's kind of how I feel about it. It just feels like that's the direction it's going. I'll definitely need to get a copy of this album. I think I slightly preferred the first side over this side. but I mean the whole album was excellent. I mean no part overstayed its welcome. It was crafted really well. There were plenty of earworms strewn throughout each song. It's every bit it deserves, every bit of its iconic status that it's acquired over the years. And this was a debut record too, Like yeah. they'd done like a bunch of singles and EP stuff before this. this is like most people outside of Manchester. This was the first they heard of the band Yeah, And it just drips with like personality Like it's just very much like there's no way you could be like Oh, they had a restaurant. One of these songs comes on and you're like Oh, is this a- you know, joy division? or is it the red hot chili peppers? It's very clear who you're listening to. Yeah,

every time i'm listening to the radio and i think: 51:35

what is this shit? it turns out it's the red hot chili peppers. that would suck if you were like a nick cave fan, but you were also a member of the red hot chili peppers and then you heard them say a quote like that. that would be kind of like red hot chili peppers. are fans of dick cave and that cave does not like red hot chili peppers. that's sad, it is. uh, well, it's not as bad as some of the music that the red hot chili peppers have put out. i was gonna say they're. they're crying all the way to the bank. so i wonder, i wonder if they can write another song where? um, the state of california is a metaphor for sex, Or vice versa, Or vice versa? Well, you know, California is a big state. The state of sex is the metaphor for California. Lots of sex happening in California, California, um, but anyway, track by track, oh, this side opens with she's lost control, which is one of their best known songs and one of their best songs. this one's one of their best known ones because there's a legendary tv performance of it, which is definitely worth uh checking out. yeah, i like the snare sound and i liked how they used the reverb on the percussion vocals on this one, and i really liked how it like built up, like the guitar didn't even come in until about what 2thirds of the way through. no, it came in quietly, about a third, and then by 2 thirds it was like at full volume. yeah, yeah, um, it was actually the first. like i said earlier, it's the first. it was the first song i had heard by them, so it was kind of. this was the intro, my uh intro song to them. so A couple of fun facts about this song. 1, this is the only Joy Division song that was covered by another artist while Ian Curtis was still alive, And that artist was Grace Jones. Look it up, It's an amazing cover.

And then 2, this is the song that inspired me to: 53:32

hey, it'd be cool if we had e-drums with traditional drums in my old band, Gong Farmer and I tried to bully Pete into doing it, and he did it for like 2 shows and then he chose not to anymore. but yeah, you need to be a better bully. I think I think I do. but that e-drum set then I then sold to Steve and now we use it in The Illiterates. so the song is one of the germs of The Illiterates. so but yeah, it's probably the one that sounds the most like he's. he's he is a drum machine in it, like, because it's got that. i just want the world to know that when david said that he sold the z drums to steve, he was making the cutthroat motion and eye contact with steve. yeah, I use real cymbals, so I'm still kind of using a real kit too. It's like an Android of a kit. I've thought about using real toms instead of the e-toms, but I think, much like Pete, mixing and matching would probably piss off every sound guy more than we already piss off every sound guy. It's like a real drum kit that had a knee replacement. You know what I mean. Yeah, i like how. jimmy said that we're low maintenance people, but we we have high or but we're high maintenance musicians or something. yeah, that is one hundred percent true. i think i'm pretty low maintenance. you're the most low maintenance. well, no, andrew's low maintenance too, but the 2 of us, i mean he has like his whole pedal set, i don't know. i go back and forth. i'm very kind of arbitrary about what i about my standards. yeah, actually i guess i am higher maintenance because i do have the acoustic guitar too. so yeah, Andrew is now officially the low-maintenance member of the band. Next up we have my favorite song on the record. It's in my top 5 Joy Division songs, Shadowplay. I liked it because it was a higher-energy rock song. It had a really cool guitar solo. I also liked that it had these. I think they were tape effects accenting certain parts. It was just perfect. I loved, I love, like how it started off with, like the slow bass pulse, with just like the cymbals on the drums, and then the guitar like kicked in kind of like, rang out a little bit and then just kick-ass punk song after that. but like it was still, like it had the kick-ass punk song energy, but still like the atmosphere of everything around it. it was yeah, it was great. yeah, it didn't like it. you know, like sometimes when they change sounds like that, it sounds like out of place, but it didn't sound out of place. it doesn't sound out of place on this album. it sounds like

it's a part of the cohesive album. i'm gonna look at a picture of these people. yeah, i gotta put a face to the. oh yeah, you definitely should look it up. they look. they look like very normal working-class people. they didn't do like the whole the whole, like leather jackets and spiky hair thing, because some of these titles are like super like they would make. um, they've made goth people. yeah, they're like jesus. why didn't we think about houses like: 56:24

yeah, God, Interzone, Shadow play. What was I thinking? Shadow play, Doing shadow play? One of my favorite parts of like the whole thing, though, is like how there'd be like the long drum fills with, like the cymbal crash after that, just like build and release tension right there. It was perfect, and I liked the kind of like chugging rhythm guitar parts of it, and then I liked how the whole thing just ended in like a giant crash. these guys look like they're gonna send me they're going to like try to sell me insurance. yeah, they look aggressively, normal and they wear like that. yeah, they're aggressively, not aggressive, yeah, but they come up with such dark, uh music and such dark titles and such like, and it's funny they haven't. they haven't really changed their look too much. they still look about the same. yeah, they're, they're kind of etched in time. yeah, although i didn't get a chance by the time new order was really getting electronic and peter hook was being like i'm gonna hold down the rock, the rock portion of the band, with my aggressively distorted bass. he started like wearing a leather jacket and he drew his hair out and all that. so like there was a while in the eighties when, like peter hook was like the rock out, like the dangerous rock star in the band. yeah, but yeah, like um still look like a dork he's wearing like a polo shirt, with his. uh, like with his, uh, like i have a job haircut. yeah, yeah, like. the shadow play, though, reminds me of driving in a thunderstorm, just like you get like the crashes of thunder throughout this, but you get like the atmosphere of like rain coming down. it's a perfect song, in my opinion. Any more shots on Shadowplay before we move on to Wilderness. I'm good on that. I like the bass line, the bass intro of Wilderness. Wilderness is where I realized that these guys check all my reverb and delay saturation boxes. It's really hard to pull off. They do it very fantastically. You turn it off or it's too much. most of the time they would have caught me back in my psychedelics days. I think, uh, that could have, that could have got weird. And I like that. Yeah, I like it. I like that snaky baseline with like, with the lyrics, the blood of Christ on their skin, you know, like, what did you see there? Yeah, I liked the rhythm section on it. I thought it. i thought it did a very good job of invoking the title wilderness, yeah. and it felt like. it felt like being like feeling like completely isolated from other people while you're around other people, like, like. it's a wilderness of people. and it still like, had, um, like some punky it. it was a little funkier than the rest of the songs, but it was kind of like the, but it still had some punk roots in it. yeah, and speaking of punk, let's get on to inner zone, which is the punky song on the record. E-N-T-E-R. No, I-N-T-E-R, Oh, I-N-T-E-R, It's a reference to Zone. Enter Zone is the name of like, the fictional North African city in Naked Lunch by William Burroughs, where rich people go to do a lot of drugs. Oh, I haven't read Naked Lunch. It is hard to read because it is near impossible to follow, because Burroughs was just like all stream of consciousness. Oh, fuck that Wasn't he also like clipping it up, like chopping it up and like making collage pretty much out of it, Which kind of explains Martin Hamnet's approach to production too. Yeah, enter zone could also be the name of a butthole. yeah, yes, but this one was, uh, peter hook on lead vocals, and that's the exit. so yeah, i don't know why you call it, but it could also be the empty zone. steve, do you have something to tell us that you're? you're calling your butthole the enter zone. are you doing suppositories? well, i mean that's the only way. that's the only way you can safely do marijuana. yeah, according to. according to the state of nebraska, it is. yeah. that's what this song is about. is about putting marijuana suppositories up your butt right? yeah, for medical reasons only. yeah, according to the state of nebraska, but not the state of california. I always hate when Ian Curtis goes into that weird. Anthony Kiedis scat. That's a joke. He doesn't do that at all. every once I do like a hook on the lead vocals for Inner Zone. I think, i think i think he probably should have been the lead singer for a new order. but hey, that's not how it worked out. this one's their mean side. they get kind of uh. um, gotta find a way. the guitar on this song i thought had a really cool hooky melody, uh. and since, uh, peter hook is the one that's singing, that's very fitting, yeah. and then like and then like the uh, like the synth, uh, little stabs throughout it. yeah, it's really good. i like it a lot. it's a, it's a great song, And then we close it out with. I remember nothing. Yes, Bringing it back to the doom. This is my favorite one. I think wilderness was the one that I. I said out loud that that's my favorite one while I was playing. And then, when it got to, I remember nothing. this was the one where I was like. Oh, I hear this in like every one of my favorite bands. I could hear that every one of my favorite bands love this song. So I thought that was really neat. Such a intense song. uh, vibe on this danger. it was very dangerous sounding. it sounded like i maybe like if they wanted to hang out with me. it'd be like i don't know, guys, it was kind of busy. it was. it was slow in a dangerous way, like 2 guys with switchblades circling each other. it sounds like if you cut yourself on it, you'd get tetanus. Yeah, I felt like I was being circled by wolves. You know what I mean. It's funny because it's the longest song on the album, but it doesn't feel long at all. None of the songs on this album felt long. If anything, I was kind of surprised when the side ended. This album's so short. How long is it? It's less than 40 minutes. It's like 39 minutes,

Which I think is the perfect length for an album, because sometimes they're like: 1:03:26

oh, let's make our album an hour and 15 minutes.

And it's like: 1:03:32

why don't we do like 2 hours, Jerry Cantrell, looking at you? Yeah, Motherfucker, Jerry Cantrell, We did a degradation trip like the volume one and two, and it was fucking like. The first disc was like 69 minutes. The second disc was 79 minutes. Is Jerry Cantrell the guitarist from Alice in Chains? Yeah, And I like how all of us were tired of it, And we also took 2 weeks in between each disc. Yeah, it just felt like we were listening to. we were listening to fucking Jerry Cantrell forever, And I'm like I need to not listen to Alice in Chains for like a year now. Yeah, Oh, my gosh, There was a good like 58 minutes of music in the whole thing, I think.

And then I think the rest of this stuff could have been good on a separate release if it was worked on a little bit. but just like all at once, it was just like: 1:04:21

okay, this is starting to drag. Well, there was like one whole song that could have been left out. Yeah, yeah, it, it could have been a really great single album. well, and it was because roger initially released it as one album. i mean jerry's like, but i want it to be 2 albums. i know i'm gonna regret saying this, but i would actually not be opposed to just doing the one album version and seeing if it's better, a better listen, than the 2 album version was.

maybe, maybe, if we ever do this, if we ever do this podcast live, maybe that's one thing we can do. i like how you put on blue skies like: 1:04:54

how are we? how would we do that? would we just sit in silence for half an hour? yeah, everyone sits there while we listen to a record and listens to it with us. uh, if you guys did a live podcast, it would probably have to be a live album, right like kiss live. we could do that, yeah, which is technically not a live album. no, I told everyone that I would not bring up the K word, And I accidentally did. That reminds me, Dave Lock the door We're going to do Peter Criss next. Motherfuckers, I'm out. I will break the window. Oh shit, I'm not that motivated. This actually would be a good dynamic duo to do another Kiss, Because I fucking hate Kiss. They are my number one least favorite band. They're my number 2 least favorite band, because Def Leppard exists. Oh yeah, That's a good point. I don't know. Def Leppard is like Wimpy Kiss. I can't bring myself to hate Nickelback or Imagine Dragons, because I don't want to give them that much mental energy. It's kind of like Voldemort, You don't want to. i honestly. i honestly could give a fuck about nickelback and like. yeah. i've heard worse stuff than that. i know it's just like it's cock rock. i mean it's kind of like yeah, butt rock, it's kind of like nothing. yeah, I just think it's funny because, like people, because they took themselves so seriously, I think that's, that's probably what the funniest thing is. Are they very much older than us? I don't think so. I think when people our age did stuff like that back in their twenties, it's really hard on the eyes and ears in retrospect, You know what I mean. So, like, I'm just glad that, like, none of my stuff was like, like social media wasn't out. yet I had all these really embarrassing cassette tapes. Oh yeah, I had some really bad shit too, like cause I, I just I, I got a tape recorder and I, uh, and I just would sit there and play songs and make up uh lyrics that were terrible. I thought they. I thought I was sitting on a gold mine, but it never came out. You know, uh, you know who was it's funny cause? I I thought of Daniel Johnston. uh, you know, uh, and i'm like wow, he actually was good at this and i have listened. i listened back, because, like his, like the hi, how are you? album was like, amazing. and and i'm just like wow, i was shit. the kind of stuff like, yeah, like daniel johnston, uh, johnston and uh, like lou barlow, like the lo-fi home recorded stuff is really hard to pull off, like you have to. you have to be a very good songwriter. to be able to do that. you have to be an artist. and back then i was like, not really clear on what i was trying to do. yeah, you know, like i am now. yeah, Now that I'm older I still don't know what the fuck I'm doing. now, A guy who knows what he's trying to do, I say you got some embarrassing cassettes and I'm glad my old MySpace profile doesn't exist because there was some guitar stuff on it. that Is MySpace, completely taken down. It still exists. So I could probably still access my old MySpace account. It must have shut it down. You probably could. I don't even think I logged out. Yeah, I think I'm still logged in. By what computer? Oh God, Oh yeah, I guess it would have to be a computer-by-computer basis, right? Yeah, I was probably logged into my parents' old Compaq. Yeah, We should make an alliterance. MySpace We should. That would be hilarious.

The main thing I used MySpace for back in the day was to: 1:08:54

Since bands could put 4 songs on it, it would be to listen to songs. for CDs I didn't own. I did it. I used MySpace to simply show my friends where they stand. Well, I don't know who uses it now, but it seems to be music-based now. That's kind of the entire point of it. So we should open to MySpace. actually, It's funny because, uh, i like you know, as a kid you wanted to listen to a ton of music but you didn't really couldn't afford it and stuff, because this is before streaming. yeah, before streaming, i guess i'm talking about in the, which is why myspace letting bands put 4 songs on it was a huge deal at the time. yeah. So it's just like. it's amazing to me now, like the access kids have to music and they listen to fucking Taylor Swift or BTS or whatever the fuck. like all that bullshit, We have access to so much shit and the thing that the majority of well, I think in their defense. or you know, it's not like it's like it's forced on them like all this bullshit is just like they're they're flooded with it yeah it's all suggestive it's like here's something else you may like and then it's like oh do i like this i'll check it out oh yeah i mean like so it's just like suggested suggestion it's but that's always existed to some degree like yeah but if you're right i'm not disagreeing with that but i'm saying this is a way more concentrated like invasive style of it you know what I mean yeah cause like I always like MTV for all of it's flaws and like real world bullshit in the nineties they still had like a hundred and twenty minutes at like headbangers ball headbangers ball so they so like you could still find the butthole surfers you know you didn't yeah you wanted all the surfers the greatest thing you wanted ever yeah we need to do about whole surfers record on this oh yeah that's the best yeah that's the best one yeah locus abortion technique not only do they have the coolest band name ever but that's one of the most hardcore album titles that i've ever heard in my life and the opening of it is like a sweet leaf covered yeah called sweet By the way, if you see your mother, tell her, I said, I heard, I read in the Al Jorgensen autobiography that what's that guy's name? Gibby. Yeah. He's the lead singer on Jesus built my hot rod. Yeah. And then he was so like kind of cracked out and drunk that he couldn't even sit up right on his stool and they couldn't really like, get anything out of him it was just like a bunch of incoherent and then al jorgensen just like edited into something yeah that's what al jorgensen was also like joy division a huge fan of william burroughs and the kind of like the kind of approach to songwriting so yeah that's also like You can kind of hear the beginnings of industrial music in this, too. Like, Cabaret Voltaire and Throbbing Gristle were starting to do their thing. Like, they started a little earlier in this, but it was, like, all coming out of the same stew. Yeah, you can really hear a lot of Just, like, the, like, kind of minimalism but causing such a strong vibe you know what i mean like uh that's present in industrial music where they're just kind of using unconventional instruments quote unquote instruments to make this like kind of collage of sound that makes you feel like some weird abstract yeah yeah you got like the broke the breaking glass especially in um i remember nothing too yeah i could hear a few different genres like fork off of this you know yeah i would like to i would like to listen i need to try this sometime uh listen to um i remember nothing and sentimental journey by parrot ubu back to back because they both have sampled glass breaking as like a like a key part of the song and just like creepy bass and surprisingly aggressive vocals over a slow song i think that would i think that would work pretty well oh speaking of peru i actually did go back and listen to modern day yeah our modern dance yeah that was actually really good it's an amazing album it's one of the strongest debuts like uh like unknown pleasures by joy division like the oldest album we're talking about yeah like that tie it back in um tie it back in oh i was gonna say one other thing too uh um henry rollins we were talking about like punk and you guys were like oh i wonder if uh danzig has heard this because it does sound like there's some danzig like his later stuff not the misfits era there were some self-titled moments though yeah that really sounded like for like 9 minutes yeah but um actually i saw an interview henry rollins was doing and he said that unknown pleasures is like the perfect album he yeah it's his he said it's his favorite album and it's like he calls it the perfect album oh and since we were talking about david lynch earlier henry rollins plays the prison guard plays a prison guard and uh And Lost Highway. Oh, that's right. Which I'd forgotten about until I watched it last night. It's like, oh, hey. The last time I watched Lost Highway, I forgot about Marilyn Manson and Twiggy Ramirez's cameo in Lost Highway. Yeah. I was like, okay, I forgot about this. Yeah. i haven't seen that since the nineties i probably should watch it again it's very good it's an underrated i don't think i understood it when i was a kid that's okay i don't need to not understand it still it was one of those movies that like everyone had the lost highway soundtrack it was the like i heard about the soundtrack before i heard about like uh um because yeah the movie because the soundtrack was like a huge hit yeah it like had a lot of like yeah smashing pumpkins manson 9ish names david bowie song i'm going what is that first song the opening of lost highway it's like i always forget that that's my favorite david bowie song It's like I'm going deranged. Yeah, I can't remember. But yeah, like so like every everyone was talking about that soundtrack because it was just an amazing soundtrack. It was deranged. Oh, the Lost Highway laser disc is expensive. Yeah, because it's a movie that came out in 19 97. It must have been one of the last laser discs produced then. Yeah. The last of the laser discs starring Daniel Dickie Lewis. Yeah. But yeah, I would recommend if you haven't listened to Unknown Pleasures before, definitely listen to it. And if you have listened to it before, listen to it again. If you haven't listened to it, what the fuck is wrong with you? I hadn't listened to it before. I have a long list of what the fuck is wrong with me. I've been writing it down the whole time. I will definitely check this out again. And if you're if you're like a doom metal fan or like a stoner rock fan or like a desert rock fan, I think you would like this album a lot. Yeah. I think if you're any kind of music or art music fan, you would like this. Yeah. Um, if you're a kiss fan, you probably won't like this. Yeah. If you're a Ted Nugent fan, you pray. Speaking of which, we're going to listen to the Gene Simmons asshole album now. Um, is that where he covers fire starter? Does he cover fire starter? He covers fire starter. Wow. um that's sick yeah uh jacob do you have anything you want to plug um man a lot of bad jokes just came to my mind i teach music and oh my band robo dojo is playing at the reverb on july which maybe uh that will be it was a great show guys yeah it was a great show oh yeah i enjoyed that one thing you did with your butthole oh yeah i plugged it oh my gosh that is uh i don't i'm speechless my friends i don't know what to say you guys have all uh I really put my foot in it this time. And by it, your butthole requires a lot of flexibility. I don't even know how you're me. What requires a lot of flexibility, Dave? Flexibility. This is what Anthony Kiedis was talking about when he said California. Yeah. was giving his own butthole a foot job yeah oh california oh anthony ketis but yeah this is you fucking pedophile yeah he is a pedophile you admitted it in his own biography um yeah um but yeah this has been uh just when i thought red hot chili peppers couldn't get any worse This comes out. I do like Chad Smith and I do like Flea. I don't know too much about John Frusciani. I think he's overrated. I think he's okay at the guitar. I'm not saying I'm better than John Frusciani is, but I'm also i just every time i hear anthony kiedis's voice i'm just kind of like man that guy can afford voice lessons yeah i know that guy can afford voices and he has access to like the top voice instructors yeah i mean come on still nothing get into it anthony I do like seeing Flea in every documentary about the L.A. punk scene. I love Flea. I think Flea is a great human being. I thought the Will Ferrell, Chad Smith drum off was really funny. Yeah, that's great. Chad Smith, he's great. He's a great musician. There's a really funny video of him doing You know how at the beginning of sporting events, someone famous will do the Star Spangled Banner? He does the drums to star spangled banner for an la clipper show and it's my favorite uh it's it's uh jimmy hendrix's star spangled banner is here and then chad's is way up here you know he beats the shit out of the drums he's like bonham he's he's like really really a great musician man well you No, he actually does a lot of session music. He doesn't just play for the Red Hot Chili Peppers. He does a lot of session work. We're nihilists, Lebowski. We've been even nothing, Lebowski. You guys are supposed to be nihilists. Yeah, I love this album. I am going to listen to it. I'm going to get a copy of it and I'm going to listen to it in my kitchen when I make breakfast. I'd also recommend getting closer and substance. Substance is a part of the whole thing since it's the singles. But yeah, closer is a single and closer is the second album. Yeah. Closer. Yeah. The second album. Yeah. Which is I think it only has like it's only has 9 tracks. Yeah. it's it's it's really good yeah it's even more depressing it's yeah yeah it's like oh no imagine like there's some higher energy number on on it but it leans much to much more towards like i remember nothing all right yeah yeah that is a desperate song isn't it yeah yeah they they were for a very short-lived band they were very tight like with yeah their whatever they did so yeah it's a good album but it's like he said more depressing i do remember one time i caught myself singing uh isolation from that album and like in the back at work which was like you know just like some like all my co-workers looked at me and i was like they're like please try to forgive me i'm doing the best that i can i'm ashamed of the things i've been put through i'm ashamed of the person i am what yeah those are lyrics lyrics that someone wrote jesus christ apparently the rest of the band missed that he was suicidal because they weren't paying attention to like the lyrics yeah Damn, dude. That's I wonder where it would have landed. They had such intention on this album. I wonder I think after this album uh some of his health issues really came to light uh touring touring because touring no pun intended yeah yeah yeah yeah so i think a lot of that stuff uh really like took him down and then also is a failing marriage yeah I think if he would have realized the toll touring was taking out of him and retired from music, he would have he'd be still alive today. He probably would have ended up like Sid Barrett. Yeah, it sounds like it gave me LCD sound system vibes. Oh, yeah. Like the vocal kind of delivery of LCD sound system with the kind of repetitive kind of background, like LCD sound system sounds like disco joy division. It really does. yeah you know except for occasionally when they sound like disco velvet underground but yes yeah yeah yeah lcd sound system yeah and then um uh joy division sounds like really bummed out velvet underground yeah you know they're like uh they're self-titled velvet underground yeah yeah it's cool like if every song was like jesus yeah jesus or pale blue eyes but even more depressing yeah yeah um But yeah, this has been Side One, Side B, and this was Unknown Pleasures by Joy Division. Catch you on the flip side. Adios. Time to plug Jacob's butthole. Oh, we ain't plugging nothing. Keep those fingers. I said keep those fingers away. I said keep those fingers away from me. All right, Dave, get the Peter Criss record. One, Side B with Dave and Steve is a Blue Coop Studios production. You can find us on Instagram at killrockmusicsws and dave underscore diction. You can find us on Blue Sky at killrockmusic and Beastmaster General. Check out our musical projects, The Illiterates and Lucid Fugue on all major streaming platforms and links to each at my website, killrockmusic.com. That's K-I-L-R-A-V-O-C-K music.com. This also includes my past projects, Megaton and Valley of Shadows, and my current solo project, Kill Rock. You can also find Dave's past project, Gong Farmer, gongfermour.bandcamp.com. Thanks! Everyone we've worked with is dead. Really rip. I need to change my pants. Check, check, check, check, check, check. Check, check, check, check, check, check. Leonard Bernstein. I hate it so much I skipped the whole Destroyer. Allow me to play you out. Dirty Dave just pooped his pants. Hmm, yes, yes indeed. Perfect hooker murdering song. Kick out the jazz, motherfucker! Are you ready? Oh, Steve's got some cheese. Get my podcast boys ready to go. Cha-wobble, what a name. I'm Ivan Moody, and I'm having a psychotic break. Testicles. That is a fun fact. There's a jazz hole. What do you mean this song is called Sweet Pea? Now that we're done with Steve's Rorschach test, let's talk about the album. For fuck's sake. That's not very busy in it, you guys. It's a professional operation over here. This is Fantasia for people who had to repeat the 9th grade. Heavy metal. Yeah, hands off, Britain. Dump it in the sea again. Shove it, shove it, shove it.