James Fox: ‘Boy vs Reality’

Welcome to episode 36, season 3, of the Teacher Book Club Podcast!

This is a recording of one of our most recent Instagram live special author chats, with author James Fox!

This episode is in partnership with Scholastic AD | PR

Tara had the pleasure of speaking to brilliant author James Fox about his new middle grade children’s book, ’Boy vs Reality.’ Tara asked him our Teacher Book Club questions plus a few extras! It was great hearing all about the ideas behind the story and characters. We hope you love listening to it as much as we loved recording it!

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Disclaimer: This is recorded from an Instagram live, so we apologise if some of the sound is not the best quality.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Hello, I'm welcome to Teacher Book Club. My name is Tara. You may know me as Tara's teaching on Instagram, and I interview lots of authors for Teacher Book Clubs so that all you teachers and educators can get a bit of an insight into the background behind some of the amazing children's books that are out at the moment. So I'm really excited to share with you this podcast episode, all about a brand new book that has been released this year by the wonderful author James Fox. He is the author also of The Boy in the Suit, which is one of my favourite books from last year. Absolute must read if you haven't read it. So I was so excited to have the opportunity to speak to him all about his new book, which is called Boy versus Reality. So I'm going to read you the blurb just to give you a bit of an insight into what the book is about. Meet Ethan Lacey, online vlogging sensation, alongside his mum, dad, and big brother Mason. They film and upload everyday life for their million subscribers to enjoy. The pranks, the cozy family time, the perks like going to the opening of an epic new theme park. They are the perfect family, aren't they? Reality is not all fun and freebies. Mum and dad have been arguing a lot recently, and Mason has been picking on Ethan. When the cracks start to show, can Ethan persuade his family to fix the real world, not fixate on the online one? So the story is told with lots of humour and lots of heart as well. I think it's quite relatable for lots of children, kind of thinking about the whole kind of social media theme, um, also technology use. So it was great to speak to James all about those kinds of issues as well. So I hope you enjoy. Hello!

unknown 2:09

Good morning.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

I've got mirror in front of me as well.

SPEAKER_04 2:14

Yeah, I just I just got there, and then just a massive bit of it was like that, and I was like, oh god, that's really bad timing. Great time.

SPEAKER_03 2:21

How are you doing? I'm good, thank you. How are you?

unknown 2:24

I'm really well, thank you. Yeah, all is good.

SPEAKER_03 2:26

Good.

SPEAKER_04 2:27

Um yeah, it's a nice Friday morning.

unknown 2:29

Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

Yeah, I was just thinking, I don't usually do these in the morning, I usually do them sort of after school in the evening, so it's nice to have this sort of bright background, which is lovely compared to the darkness usually in the evenings. Yeah, my flat gets really dark actually, so you wouldn't be able to see me normally. So I think we've chosen a good time. It's worked out well. So, really, really excited to be talking about your brand new book, Boy versus Reality. Matching copies. I have absolutely loved reading this. I loved your first book as well, The Poigncy, and this uh I don't know if it's better, but it's definitely matched, it's definitely at least matched it. I think yeah, it's wonderful, and I think so many children will be able to relate to it, whether they are in a similar position to the children in the story, or whether they are kind of viewers. Um, but yeah, very excited to talk to you all about it. Did you want to maybe start with like a summary? Tell us a little bit about the story first.

unknown 3:30

Yes, I would love to, I would love to.

SPEAKER_04 3:33

So um this is boy versus reality, as we've just shown on here. Um so boy versus reality, um, I think I'll guess the the kind of the factual bits out of the way first. It's a contemporary middle grade fiction book, which um as I'm sure the people who will watch this know that what that means already, but essentially it's kind of a real-world, real issues kind of uh middle grade book. It's not really dragons and fairies and things like that, it's more about sort of contemporary modern day issues. Um but I try to inject lots of fun and like good times in there as well.

unknown 4:09

I don't want it to be like you down in the dark side stories. Um Boy versus Reality follows the main character, Ethan.

SPEAKER_04 4:17

He's 10 years old, and he is the youngest member of his family, uh the Lacey family, or meet the Lacies as they're known online. Um, and they are essentially an online vlogging family, so they um uh post everything they do, uh every meal prep, every day out, uh day in the life, all of those kind of videos um online for their one million subscribers. Um Ethan is kind of an anxious boy, he doesn't really like being the centre of attention and he doesn't really feel comfortable with being uh filmed all the time. Um it's not his kind of favourite thing, but he has an older brother, um Mason, who is a bit more comfortable, so there's a bit of conflict in the house in terms of uh how they move ahead with their social media presence.

unknown 5:07

Um and essentially the premise of the book is that all is not as it seems with the Lacey family. Um they're going through uh a tough time, but the plan is to keep on posting and keep on pretending that everything is okay. Um and Ethan is kind of debating whether or not he takes um uh things into his own hands. Well, he does take things into his own hands to try to get them to see the error of their ways, essentially.

SPEAKER_04 5:33

So um yeah, I think that's I think that's pretty much boy versus reality in a nutshell. But I'm sure we'll talk more about that.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

Absolutely, yeah, no, thank you. So, where did the idea come about for the story?

SPEAKER_04 5:45

Yeah, well, I think I like lots of my ideas, they came from uh the news and current issues, essentially, uh which is where I get a lot of inspiration from.

unknown 5:56

Um I spent loads of time online, to my shame.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

Like I'm too, yeah, I mean it's a big vice of mine.

unknown 6:07

Um so I have a pretty big TikTok addiction, I would say.

SPEAKER_04 6:11

Um so I've uh and one thing that I started to see in recent years is a kind a slightly critical dialogue around um what are known as sort of family vloggers, essentially, which is essentially what the Lacey family are.

unknown 6:25

So it's the kind of families and and uh families and parents who essentially post everything they do online.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

Um it's we're I think in in recent years now we're starting to see um so the the kind of boom of popularity of this, I think, kind of started in like the early 2000s when we started to get YouTubers, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:46

Social media, things like that.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:48

Um and what we're now getting is that we're seeing is that some of the children that were part of those families, they're now old enough to have their own voices and their own channels, and it's recently become a bit more apparent that some of them weren't particularly comfortable with being uh filmed all the time. Um there are now laws in the US, for example, that state that um you should parents who do this kind of content should actually um keep a portion of the income aside because they now view it as a form of labour.

unknown 7:17

I'm not quite sure what the UK position on that is. Um I should probably shouldn't look into that actually. But um yeah, it's kind of a sense of that slightly critical questioning dialogue growing around that trend. Um and then I suppose one thing I have to mention um is that in recent especially in the last year, there's all of these documentaries coming out about much darker scandals to do with like family vlogging and things like that. Um there's been some really uh intense situations, and that's really not the kind of thing that I'm writing about at all. Um but I think it's once again it's cast uh a lens on that whole thing. Um so yeah, I was just fascinated by that, and I just thought, you know, we often w well, how does it feel to be that kid?

SPEAKER_00 8:01

How does it feel to be uh in that family environment?

SPEAKER_03 8:04

How would it feel to be going to school every day with your peers, and then there's kind of like this weird divide between you because you're they're sort of famous or well known. Um and they know a lot about you.

SPEAKER_04 8:16

Yeah, they do, and and also like one of the things in here is that uh the teacher in this book has is like not crossing any boundaries, but is is aware of it.

unknown 8:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:26

Like there's a moment where like you know, a video of theirs comes up on the smart board in between two videos, and I know like that probably wouldn't happen, but also I I have friends with some teachers who have said actually it might every now and then, you know, like a personal YouTube thing could like pop up on the board.

SPEAKER_03 8:44

That's it, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:45

Um so there's just all these opportunities for kind of questionable, uh questionable things to happen. Um and I suppose the other the other place where the idea came from, uh not to go on, not to ramble too much.

SPEAKER_03 8:57

No, fine. That's interesting. Carry on.

SPEAKER_04 9:01

Good, good. There's this uh sort of plot device throughout here, which is like a um uh an anxiety monster, a toy that the main character Ethan has, which is like uh kind of based on a real toy that I came across in a shop like a few couple of years ago. Um and the premise is that you write down your it's like little monster, you write down your anxieties on this paper and feed it to the monster.

unknown 9:25

And I remember thinking, oh, that's cute and cool. I like that idea. I probably would have loved that as a kid. Um and then I was like, oh, but what would happen if someone got hold of that with all of my anxieties and fears written down inside? So I knew that that would be like one of the premises throughout the book as well. So I was like desperate to work that in.

SPEAKER_04 9:44

So yeah, I kind of took those two ideas, and uh like one's quite a big idea, one's a small idea, and that's kind of how it combined and came together.

SPEAKER_03 9:54

Yeah, that's brilliant. Lots of children do have them. Um at our school we call them worry monsters. Um yeah, and they are uh I didn't want to use the exact name. Yeah, no, of course. Um they are they are brilliant though, and yeah, I love how you used that in the story, and obviously, yeah, I don't won't spoil too much for anyone who hasn't read it yet, but yeah, I think that woven into the storyline um worked really well, and lots of children will be able to relate to that and think, oh, I've got one of those too, and even like with the fiddle toy as well, I think that was great to add in as well because lots of children will definitely be able to relate.

SPEAKER_04 10:31

Yeah, yeah, lots of adults too, to be honest.

SPEAKER_03 10:33

Absolutely as well, and everyone's twirling things around. Oh, exactly. I'm always fiddling with a pen.

unknown 10:38

Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_03 10:39

Yeah, definitely amazing. Um, so we are teach book clubs, so we uh kind of speak to authors and find out kind of the inside thoughts behind your um your books that you write. So I've got some questions to ask you, so we can obviously uh share these with the children that we teach and obviously share your books with. Um so my first question is who is your favourite character and why?

SPEAKER_04 11:04

Oh, yeah, this is a really tough one. Yeah. Um it's been interesting for me thinking about this question, you know.

unknown 11:12

Um I need to warn you that my cat has just decided she wants to be involved with this.

SPEAKER_03 11:16

Oh bless. I'm really mean and I've shut mine out.

unknown 11:21

I can't because they scream the whole time.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

Oh no.

unknown 11:24

Yeah, um, so yeah, you might hear some some strange. That's okay. Um favourite character, it really it was interesting thinking about this because um Ethan is obviously the main character, and he's kind of the view onto the story, and the story is told through him. Um, and I've got a real soft spot for him.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

He's quite based on me in a lot of ways, especially in terms of like the anxious, overthinking kid that I I used to be and my life all the time, to be honest.

unknown 11:50

Um but I have to say that I think that Mason, the older brother, is like a character I maybe have a bit more of a soft spot for.

SPEAKER_04 12:00

Um he is I think going into year eight in the book, so he's like 12, 13, if I get if that's all right. I always get confused with age and um he's going into year eight. Um and he's just kind of going into that stage that I definitely remember going through where I turned really moody and stressy and probably like not fun to be around at all.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

He's like really sarcastic, really cynical.

unknown 12:30

Um but he's also quite flawed as well, and he's doing you know, that his sarcasm and moodiness is all a device to cover up some deeper things that he's kind of going through as well. Um so I like his vulnerability.

SPEAKER_04 12:44

His vulnerability is a bit more like multifaceted, whereas Ethan's because you're the the the reader is essentially in Ethan's head for the story, like you're seeing everything right up front. But um Mason sort of starts off as this slightly demon teenager who you know peel away the layers of and kind of get to know to know more.

SPEAKER_03 13:03

Um but I I just really love, I really enjoy writing like arguments, confrontations, yeah, that that's fun.

unknown 13:12

Bassy character and stuff like that. So I think like he uh uh Mason, the older brother, just kind of flowed out of me really naturally, which I think is worrying because I'm too old to be acting like that.

SPEAKER_04 13:25

Um but yeah, I've got a lot of uh I I love I love um Mason and to be honest it was like a a bit of a debate whether he would be the main character or not.

SPEAKER_03 13:35

Really?

SPEAKER_04 13:35

Um yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

Yeah, amazing. I think yeah, the contrast of the two boys, the brothers, worked really well. Like you say, bringing up like those arguments and them having very different points of views on things sometimes, yeah, really adds to the story, doesn't it?

unknown 13:52

It does, and there's a real like I don't have kids myself, but there's such a notable change with between like when you speak to like a nine or ten-year-old and a twelve, thirteen year old, there's like a lot of uh progression and change in those very short few years.

SPEAKER_04 14:06

Um and it is a it is a it is a contrast, and um I've got nephews though, and they are about this age, and I can see differences between them and stuff, so um yeah, it's it's an interesting little conflict there.

SPEAKER_03 14:18

Yeah, it's good, and I think actually it's a good thing for children reading it to see that there is the conflict between brothers. I think sometimes in stories siblings are kind of perceived as oh, they always get along and it's always lovely, but I think reality is absolutely not that.

SPEAKER_04 14:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:35

Oh yeah, the way they like roast each other and stuff is so fun for me, and like I can sit back because I I A, I'm not there all the time, and B, it's like um, you know, I'm just always interested as a writer, I think.

SPEAKER_04 14:46

Um I know that they're everything changes in time, but um, yeah, I just think it's really uh it it's interesting, and yeah, you're right, the siblings are always almost portrayed as these like this perfect teamwork who always helps each other out, and I think a lot of the time that's not really the case, so I wanted to throw that pretty clearly.

SPEAKER_03 15:03

Yeah, yeah, we definitely did. No, it's brilliant. Um, I absolutely loved Ethan, he was definitely my favourite character. Um, like you say, obviously, we hear it the whole story from his point of view. Um, but yeah, I just had a such a soft spot for him, and I think his growth throughout the story was huge. I mean, I think he initially started as very kind of anxious, very overwhelmed. Um obviously we talked about you know, he had his little monster which helped him, his fiddle toys. Um, but I think by the end, you know, he was really confronting his fears and was able to express himself a lot better. Um so I think that would be amazing for readers to see that development throughout the story for him.

SPEAKER_04 15:44

He goes from being super passive, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:46

Super passive in the beginning, everything's just happens to him, and it's like dealing with that, and then he kind of well, I think like um I don't know, I don't want to be too generalist, but like a lot of children's books for this age, I think you have to have the character takes control. I think he's always a like a theme through.

unknown 16:03

I think that's probably what kids like to read.

SPEAKER_03 16:05

Um, exactly.

unknown 16:09

It's like fun when you're a kid to imagine just taking control of your parents and your annoying older brother and everything and everything going your way.

SPEAKER_04 16:16

Of course. So um yeah, I I think that's important.

SPEAKER_03 16:19

Yeah, definitely. So my next question is what is your favourite part of the story and why potentially maybe your favourite part to have written?

SPEAKER_04 16:27

Yeah, yeah. Great, another great question.

unknown 16:31

So, like one thing I did there's a bit yeah in this book that's a bit more different to the point that suits, there's a a few more sort of action sequences in this book, which there's not so much of in the first. Um uh so there's a moment, there's a scene quite early early on, which is kind of there as a status quo kind of thing, like to show what like a fairly typical day is like in the family, um, where they go to this they're invited to the opening of like a water parking. Um and they're there to film content with a load of other influencer families. Um in that way that definitely does happen. Um and um it's it was just really fun for me to write lots of action, like water slides and splashing around.

SPEAKER_04 17:16

There's a moment where like a load of horrible load of snot comes out of Ethan's now, you know, the guitar's in the swimming pool and it's just disgusting.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

He's a bit of a germaphobe as well, so there's there's there's all of that.

SPEAKER_04 17:27

Um and I I like writing stuff like that because there's a kind of cynicism that I have about that kind of like page content where like influencers go around and you know make everything look amazing and actually a little bit gross and there's like a plaster floating in a swimming pool.

unknown 17:44

Stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 17:45

Um so I really enjoyed that. Um and there's another sequence I wrote to uh where the boy so Ethan has two friends, Arlo and Omar, his at his own age, they're like the two best friends, and they sneak into the local secondary school.

unknown 18:02

Yeah. Um which I loved writing because I mean it's the the visuals of the place is based heavily on my first impressions of my secondary school.

SPEAKER_04 18:13

Um and there's a moment where they're lamenting like the the lack of um you know, like in primary schools you have like nice murals everywhere and everything's really colourful, and pictures, and it's just really innocent and nice.

unknown 18:24

Yeah. And then they're like going to see this really horrible grey building with like barbed wire fences.

SPEAKER_03 18:30

Yeah, prisms. Um yeah, there's like no murals anywhere and everything's really run down, and that was kind of based on my secondary school.

SPEAKER_04 18:38

If I wanted that has changed a lot since now, so no offense with playing my teachers.

unknown 18:43

Yeah. Um but the the first impression. So yeah, I just love that moment of that realization for them, like a sort of colour made in a way, they're like, oh god, year seven is around the corner and this is big moment of dread. Um uh yeah, so I think they were two really fun, fun moments for me.

SPEAKER_03 19:03

Yeah. Yeah, they sound great to write.

unknown 19:06

A lot of other moments that I'm really fond of later on, but like when I was thinking about which ones to say that a lot of the ones I really love are just way too spoilery.

SPEAKER_03 19:13

Like if there would be no point in anyone reading the book if I said what the real, real favourite ones. Yeah. So uh yeah, I have also written down that I love the water park scene. Um, yeah, I just like like you say, it's full of action, full of fun, but maybe not so fun for Ethan, bless him. Um, but then I I think it was great to then see that you know his parents are still very much forcing him to pretend that it's he's having a great time and that you know it's been the best day ever, because that's kind of yeah, the job, and that that really cemented for me, I think, because it was quite near the start of the story, the fact that that is what they're doing there, basically, you know, putting on this fake show for their followers. Um, and yeah, poor old Ethan is not that's not his reality at all.

SPEAKER_04 20:02

Not loving it, he's not loving it, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he's not allowed to take his worry monster his anxiety monster into the uh into the pool, and he says that's he thinks that's discrimination, and I was like, I love that. That's not the kind of thing I would think as well.

SPEAKER_03 20:18

Yeah, bless him. Um, and I also did like a part nearer the end of the story, which again I won't spoil, but I think a part where the family really have to come together, um, and it's a reality check for them, and it's the point where they start to question what they're doing and why. Um, and I think yeah, just such a pivotal moment um leading towards the end of the story.

SPEAKER_04 20:41

Yeah, you're totally right. I mean, there's um yeah, the whole I guess the whole point is like uh yeah, they needed a big shock, I think.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

Yeah.

unknown 20:48

Trying to get them to focus back on the present rather than uh rather than always recording these sort of memories as they think they're doing, but actually they're just like, you know, filming everything and making social media content.

SPEAKER_04 21:02

So uh the I I guess the whole idea of the book in a way is kind of like reminding people to like just enjoy the moment of the present a little bit more and trying to capture the magic all the time, just trying to kind of live it.

SPEAKER_03 21:15

Live it. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, amazing. Um so my next question is what is your favourite quote from the book?

SPEAKER_04 21:21

Yeah, god, I find this really hard here because uh not because there's so many amazing quotes in an arrogant way, but I was like, oh, I'm gonna have to find something like that. But um I've got a short one, if that's okay.

unknown 21:36

Yeah. One of Ethan's internal sort of reflections.

SPEAKER_04 21:42

Um it kind of just to sum up his feelings about his life, essentially. Um it's not long at all, but the quote is I have to admit that not all Meet the Lacey's videos were bad. Good memories were captured on film two, like the Thought Park vlogs, that viral clip of granddad using. The dance machine at the arcade, Mason and me meeting Goofy at Disneyland, even my first ever steps were recorded. Me in a nappy walking towards Mum's open arms.

unknown 22:10

Sometimes it was nice to go back and look. It was everyone else watching that made me feel so weird. Yeah. Very short.

SPEAKER_04 22:18

A short book that just kind of sums up everything about how there is some magic and some joy in those captured memories.

SPEAKER_03 22:25

But um But it hits him sort of saying it should be for us, it should be for our family, not for everyone to see.

SPEAKER_04 22:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:35

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:35

And actually all of all of those things are based on.

unknown 22:38

I did a lot of um I I actually quite a lot of sort of fat flout family vlog research for this book.

SPEAKER_04 22:44

So all things I've seen on uh on on channels, and I try I try to have I actually genuinely don't have like a a really polarized opinion either way on this issue, by the way.

unknown 22:55

I think that's one thing I'm keen to say is like um because I'm c I'm kind of conscious that there actually might be a few kids out there who might read this book and be like, oh, like maybe my family does this or whatever. And I think everything I genuinely do think everything can be done with balance. Um so I'm I'm kind of keen to to get that across.

SPEAKER_04 23:13

And I think that was one of those moments where you know I allowed Ethan to explore the balance, the good and the bad.

SPEAKER_03 23:19

Well, yeah, no, that's amazing. Um so I have well, I've got two quotes. One I can't read because it is right at the end, um, but the final few pages I think are brilliant, kind of, yeah, the family voicing their final thoughts towards the end of the story. I won't say anymore. Um I think it's just a brilliant summary and ending to the book. Um, yeah, so I think that was a great moment, I think, and a great way to finish the story as well. Yeah, yeah, I like I liked that. I mean, I think we we could probably say that they they yeah, they post a uh they post a long message on uh which is which is um one of the few sort of self-reflective moments that the parents actually have.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

And they do their position does change as the story goes on.

unknown 24:11

Um yeah, it's annoying. I put all my sentimental stuff at the end of the book.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

Right, the end. Would have been great for this question. Um they're completely non-sentimental at the start of the book, uh really wrap up in themselves. Everyone's being awful at each other. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 24:24

Uh that doesn't make for the best quoting, but um there's lots of uh lots of nice uh nice moments to uh in the later half, I would say.

SPEAKER_03 24:34

Yeah, definitely. Um and I have got one more I probably can read. Um I'm not actually too precious about spoilers, but I don't want to like worry what I should say. No, I just don't want anyone to you know spoil it for themselves. Um so my quote is every challenge is a chance to grow stronger. Um, and I think that is lovely for children to read um and to realise, yeah, not everything's gonna be easy. Um and it's yeah, it's gonna help you, it's going to make you stronger in the long run.

SPEAKER_04 25:06

Yeah. I can't remember what the context is for that. What's happening?

SPEAKER_03 25:11

I think it was Ethan that said it. Right, okay, motivational for himself.

unknown 25:17

Yeah. He was saying that, and I'm like, I can't remember what it is.

SPEAKER_03 25:21

I think I like that, and I actually I think that's true.

SPEAKER_04 25:24

It's something I have to still remind myself, actually, doing you know, my author stuff, um uh find myself in a few quite scary situations, and I'm like, no, you know what? I need to remember that I can overcome these things, and I think it's useful is to feel that message as well.

SPEAKER_03 25:39

So yeah, I like that a lot. Definitely, and I think at school we're always teaching children about resilience. Um, you know, it's always kind of a school value that we're always working on. So yeah, I think that will really resonate with children, which is lovely.

SPEAKER_04 25:53

Resilience is important, we all all have to work on it.

SPEAKER_03 25:56

Oh, absolutely, yeah, definitely. Um, so my next question is what do you want readers to remember most from the book?

SPEAKER_04 26:04

Yeah, interesting. I think it's this message about um the kind of the value of now, of the present moment, yeah, versus this this um sort of compulsion that we all have, I think, in this in the modern day to sort of record absolutely everything all the time.

unknown 26:27

Almost because we think the looking back on the moment might be better than just enjoying it. Um I think really that is the message. Um and I think it c it probably comes across a bit holier than now for me to say that, and I'm literally so guilty of this as well. You know, I go to like pop concerts and stuff, and oh, you know, you see a sea of phones in front of you, and I have to say to myself, I'm just gonna put my phone down. I've got like an old iPhone 14 that has like the filming quality of like a potato.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

Like I'm not gonna take the best footage in the room of of like this show or whatever, and there's actually professional cameras over there doing it for us anyway.

unknown 27:06

Like, I don't need to watch this moment through my phone all the time.

SPEAKER_03 27:09

Yeah. Um like nine times out of ten, you don't ever watch those videos back, do you? No, no, no. I defeat I debate for storage because I've got to do something like this. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 27:20

Um and I think that there's another, you're totally right, like that is uh essentially the message.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

And um there's another character that I haven't really spoken, I don't think I've spoken about properly yet in this call, uh called uh the granddad character.

SPEAKER_04 27:35

Um he's sort of the antithesis, the opposite of the Lacey's, because he um is older, he's of a different generation, he doesn't use any technology really, um, and he struggles with sort of memory loss, um, and he lives in like an assisted living thing.

unknown 27:50

Um and his his memory is so short term that he really only can live in the in the moment because the the his past is sort of slipping away from it all the time.

SPEAKER_04 28:00

Um and I think the other the other message is kind of an extension of the first one, really, is just to kind of um yeah, to remember other generations, I think. Um to reflect on the fact that other generations, probably older generations, don't have that same opinion and maybe ability even to cling on to the past the way that we all try to. So um just kind of keep them included uh and um try to kind of foster those intergenerational relationships as well, which I'm also guilty of not doing at times. So it's a message as much to me as to everyone else.

SPEAKER_03 28:37

Yeah, no, that's lovely. Yeah, I think I've definitely taken those away from the book when I've read it myself. Yeah, so that's lovely. Um, I think also for me a message was not to believe everything that you see. Um and I think that's again what we teach children quite a lot in school about the internet, about social media. Um, obviously, from the book we learnt that the family this wasn't the reality, a lot of it was kind of put on and faked um for their viewers, and there was a lot more going on behind doors than what we actually saw. Um, yeah, so I think thank you for saying that. That's a that's a really that is probably if there's another message is that, you know, and I think um I mean I don't I um I don't know I suppose too much about like the curriculum or teaching in the modern age, but I mean I'm I'm actually starting to do some school stuff soon, so I'm I'm sure I'm on a steep learning curve but yeah, really that like media literacy, online literacy is is like super important, and I think we do have to speak explicitly on these things rather than just assing that everyone will pick it up on their own. Um I think uh even a lot of adults struggle with this with believing they see. Um, absolutely, especially I think now with AI, I mean you don't know what to believe now, do you?

unknown 29:56

Definitely, completely right. Um, so yeah, just having a again a critical lens on sort of content like this, I think, is important.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

Again, when I say critical, I don't mean negative necessarily, but just questioning, you know.

unknown 30:10

Um yeah, even I get sucked into like influencer stuff all the time.

SPEAKER_03 30:14

Yeah, fair enough. The amount of things I've bought because someone said it's good.

unknown 30:19

Yeah, goodness, God, I wish I yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:22

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

And it's in my TikTok shop basket.

SPEAKER_03 30:26

Yeah, absolutely me too. Yeah, but no, I do think that is an important message for children and adults, like you say.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

Yeah, yeah. Definitely.

SPEAKER_03 30:37

Um, so my next question is which other characters' point of view would you like to hear the story from?

SPEAKER_04 30:43

Oh, yes, I think I kind of touched on this earlier.

SPEAKER_03 30:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:46

Actually a genuine consideration for me whether I would write the book the story from Ma uh Mason's point of view, the older brother, or Ethan.

SPEAKER_03 30:58

Um, and or even whether I combined the two actually, which I think that could have been super interesting, but I think like, you know, um you'll know this as well that typically like you know, books are for children's books are for a certain age group, so uh it might be quite confusing or yeah, I guess he was a bit older.

SPEAKER_04 31:16

Yeah, to have two such different siblings uh different age siblings telling the same story. Um I think ultimately, like, um I I think the story would have been really, really fun from uh Mason's point of view, but it would have been a really, really different book.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:32

Because obviously he goes from the position of co quite enjoying social media, like he is the opposite of Ethan, he quite likes it.

unknown 31:40

Yeah. Um he has got these grand ambitions to become like the world's greatest like prank YouTuber and he's very pro the whole thing.

SPEAKER_04 31:48

Um so you know, I'm sure there's a book there that could be written, but I think um in the view, you know, with the view and intention of wanting to do something a little bit different to cast a slightly different light on the whole debate, um Ethan was the young uh the younger sibling was the right point of view to to go with.

unknown 32:07

Yeah. Um, but like Mason is such a fun character.

SPEAKER_04 32:12

Like, maybe I always think maybe maybe I'll do something with him at some point.

unknown 32:15

I don't know what. He's like so funny to me.

SPEAKER_03 32:19

Um but yeah, uh if if it was if it was any probably before. I also think it would be interesting to hear it from the parents' point of view. Um, probably more of an adult book, potentially, but yeah, in fact uh you know what they're going through as well, um behind closed doors, but then also how they start to kind of realise the impact it's having on their children, um, and kind of yeah, maybe going from how they feel initially at the start of the story towards the end, how that changes would be quite interesting.

SPEAKER_04 32:55

Just yeah, their inner thoughts would be absolutely their inner thoughts would be really interesting, they're going through a huge change as well, and the book is generally that sympathetic to the parents until the later third of the book, I see.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

Um, and actually, you know, credit to them, they hand they eventually start to handle things with quite a lot of maturity, which I quite as well.

unknown 33:16

Um, because um I think it's you know important to show to young readers that changes to family, like you know, d separation, divorce, or like siblings stuff, parents, grandparents stuff, um, doesn't it's not necessarily the end of the world, it doesn't mean it's gonna be easy. Yeah, um but that you know there's a there is a way that these things can go down, which is like a bit more not so sensationalist and so dramatic. And I reckon probably half the time that's what actually happens in real life. So um I wanted to show that um definitely, but yeah, all of the all of their points of view would be fun in their own way, even granddad, but unfortunately he's a little bit siloed off at times, yeah. Probably left alone too much.

SPEAKER_04 34:00

Um, but uh yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

They'd all had good stories to tell, I think.

SPEAKER_04 34:06

They all would.

SPEAKER_03 34:07

Yeah, definitely. Um, so my next question is do you have a top three children's books that you could recommend to us?

SPEAKER_04 34:15

Yeah, I will yeah, I do. I had to have a really big think about this.

SPEAKER_03 34:19

I know, it's a hard one.

SPEAKER_04 34:20

Yes, it really is, isn't it? Um, but yeah, I do.

unknown 34:24

Um and what I decided to do was one if a young reader, really young, like picture book age, something in or middle grade, and I know you guys will already know this middle grade book, but I love it. Um a little bit older and a little bit different. Um, but I don't have the first one with me because it's not actually out yet. Oh a picture book coming, I think it publishes in March. Um so I actually work in publishing, I sell books myself.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

Oh, I know this, and it is one from where I work, but I love it.

unknown 34:54

Everyone I've shown it to instantly falls in love with this book, uh including adults, uh, and it's called Judgy Bunny.

SPEAKER_04 35:01

Um, and it's by a writer called Scott Rothman and an illustrator who is uh so Scott I think is American, the illustrator is from London, uh Lindsay Hunter, and I know she's an illustrator other books as well.

unknown 35:14

Um it's just a really fun picture book about a really moody rabbit who is determined not to enjoy anything. Um this first Judgy Bunny book is like about a day at the beach, and the bunny is she's moaning because everything's too sandy and too hot, and everyone's being too loud. Just like exactly how if you're kind of more of an indoorsy person like I am, to be honest with you, and you think I don't want to do this, but when you lean to enjoying the moment a little bit more, a bit like in Boy versus Reality, quite a lot of fun to be had. Um but um I think the art style and this combination of the kind of moody, cynical character is like really fun for adults and young readers as well.

SPEAKER_02 35:58

So I think the big recommendation from me is I love it. Lovely.

unknown 36:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

Um I guess moving on to middle grade, um, you guys are already gonna know this book, so uh you know uh I it's a book that got a l was compared a lot with my first book, um, The Boy in the Suit, and it is the long shoe in person, but you probably already know it.

unknown 36:20

Yeah, brilliant.

SPEAKER_04 36:21

Me and Tom actually did an event together, like an online discussion, because almost to kind of compare and contrast our books because that are really similar things.

SPEAKER_03 36:31

Yeah, similar themes, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:33

Yeah, and they came out at such a similar time. We were almost looking at each other, like, I can't believe it's almost so weird that we had both these ideas.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:41

Um but um I I really admire the book um and it's cool because it's quite heavily illustrated as well, which is a talent I definitely don't have. So I mean it's nice, like if you enjoyed The Boy in the Suit, but you would enjoy like a maybe a more visual take on it, I think this would be like great for it. Um but I just love the honesty of the book, the themes of the book is uh similarly deals with kind of childhood poverty, meaning different economic reasons, um parental mental health.

unknown 37:13

Um I think they're like evergreen themes for children's books, and like if you haven't read it already, like definitely read it now.

SPEAKER_04 37:19

It's still so timely. Um and I think it's out in paperback now as well.

SPEAKER_03 37:23

Yes, I think it is, yeah. Oh amazing.

SPEAKER_04 37:26

Um yeah, I love that book, and I I bet like the audience of this video will already have to know it. Anyone that hasn't read it, like I definitely, definitely recommend.

unknown 37:36

Um and then something for sort of teens, I'd probably say about like 12, 13 up. Yeah, yeah, there's nothing there's not nothing too content-y in here, but I got given these two uh manga books from my birthday by a friend.

SPEAKER_04 37:51

Um, and it's a series called The Summer Ikaru Died.

unknown 37:55

Um it's uh I've never really read uh any manga before, uh but I wanted to get into it and it's super fun, and people probably already know that you read from the back of the book like read from left to right, and it's this kind of highly illustrated sort of comic book.

SPEAKER_02 38:14

I don't know if it's a com if comic book is a comic book is the right thing to say technically for a manga, but it's yeah, illustrated in this style. Yeah, amazing.

SPEAKER_04 38:23

The premise I love because it's about two best friends, and one of them goes missing during the summer.

unknown 38:29

Um, and when he comes back, he's not the same anymore. He and there's a suspicion that he's been taken over by like a monster or an entity from the woods. Um and the art style is great, the friendship between the two boys is really moving. Um it's very kind of creepy and supernatural. It'll make you think twice about going into the woods on your own, which I love. Yeah. Um there's like ten in the series, so I'm gonna have to get cracking on them.

SPEAKER_04 38:55

But they're just really good for when like even I, as a writer who loves to read, sometimes I'm not in the mood for like a lot of text and a big chunk of trouble. So they're like really fun and accessible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:08

Oh, brilliant. Great recommendations, thank you very much. Um, so my next question is do you have any writing tips for us teachers? Obviously, we teach children writing every day, um, but it would be great to hear some tips from an author.

SPEAKER_04 39:25

Yeah, yeah. I've been thinking about this recently, because as I said, I'm starting to do some bits in school.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

So um, I'll be interested to know whether this is something that you kind of already do or already um on, you know, is a discussion point.

SPEAKER_04 39:41

Um I think for me, uh I remember being taught lots about stories that there is a beginning, a middle, and an end, which is uh undoubtedly true, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

I'm trying to like not cast any doubt on that because it's like one of the pillar blocks of like writing stories or creating things.

unknown 39:58

Um but that always gave me the impression when I was younger that like that was the order that you had to to do it, that you had to the beginning, then the middle, then the end. Yeah, actually, when the way I first ever finished a story, the boy in the suit was the first story I ever actually finished, by the way. The first time I ever wrote the end. And I did that by writing the beginning, the end, and then the middle, and kind of bridging it together.

SPEAKER_04 40:27

Um because I don't know, I kind of when I get to the middle, and I I I found it with boy versus reality as well, that the middle is really hard because that's the bit where everything has to interlock and has to make sense like a jigsaw.

unknown 40:40

And the middle is kind of the bit where anything can happen, but the beginning is the end, you know what you have to do. You're kind of you're in the beginning, you're starting up the engine and you're setting the scene. Yeah. At the end, you're trying to draw everything to a close. But the middle is so much easier, I think, where you know where you're going, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 40:59

Rather than it's this wide open expanse in front of you that you know you could where any potentially anything could happen. Um, but I think you you limit yourself in a good way, maybe limits not the right word, you direct yourself if you've got the end in mind.

unknown 41:15

So I think my tip is to write the next easiest bit, or to write the next fun bit, or the next bit that you can see clearly, rather than stopping when you reach the end of one sentence because you don't know what the next one is. Um you don't have to write that right now. You just can move on. Yeah, just move on.

SPEAKER_03 41:33

Um see I don't know if that's something that is already being done or not, to be honest, but that's not to my knowledge, but that is so that's brilliant. Yeah, absolutely. I think you're right, we yeah, kind of that is how we look at it. It's very kind of ordered in how you you teach it and how children, yeah, then do do their writing. So that's that's great, yeah. And a different way of looking at it. Yeah, no, I think that's brilliant, yeah, and I would definitely try that actually. Um next time we have to write a story, that would be brilliant.

SPEAKER_04 42:08

Yeah, I don't have to be honest. I think it could work with anything creative. It could, yeah. Any anything creative, even if it's not writing or a story, it could be a picture.

SPEAKER_03 42:17

Whatever. Like you say, it is a bit like a puzzle, because then you piece it together and work out, well, that bit's gonna work here, this bit can go there. That'd be great.

SPEAKER_04 42:26

Yeah, it's really useful for me, um, even my old age writing stuff. So uh yeah, resonates.

SPEAKER_03 42:33

Yeah, amazing. Thank you. Um so my last question is what is next for you? Are you writing, or is there anything we can look forward to in the future?

SPEAKER_04 42:42

Yeah, so I'm back at the drawing board right now, which is like a fun, um scary place to be.

unknown 42:48

Um, so yeah, nothing well, I say nothing immediately on the pipeline. I'm I've currently got about probably five to eight ideas going around my head that I'm doing. Yeah, which is probably a bit too many.

SPEAKER_04 43:02

And I'm kind of just in that exploratory phase right now of finding one or two, maybe three of those actually has a story in.

unknown 43:10

Yeah. Sometimes I I think I've got an idea for a whole book, and I'm like, oh, that's not a whole book, that's maybe a part of something else.

SPEAKER_04 43:16

Like um, yeah, that anxiety monster thing I was talking about earlier.

unknown 43:19

I was like, ooh, that could be the whole book.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

And I'm like, no, that's a part of the story, right? So I'm playing around right now, um discussing various ideas with various people and seeing seeing what's to come.

unknown 43:31

But I mean, in an ideal world, um, once kind of uh things calm down with boy versus reality, and I'm back to normal schedule in our dive, right back and hopefully have something coming out for everyone.

SPEAKER_04 43:44

So more to come.

SPEAKER_03 43:47

Good. Well, that sounds exciting. Yeah, and great, you've got lots of ideas, you're not just sat there thinking, where do I even start? That's brilliant.

SPEAKER_04 43:54

Too many ideas, don't you?

unknown 43:57

Um, and I suppose the other thing is I was starting to get out to. I think that's right. I haven't been forget about it, but um I'm sure it'll be okay.

SPEAKER_03 44:06

Oh I'm sure you'll love it.

SPEAKER_04 44:08

Yeah, I haven't been in a school since I was at school myself.

SPEAKER_03 44:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:15

So it's gonna be a bit of a shock to the system, but I'm I'm looking forward to it, like meeting some teachers and talking about my books and about writing and hopefully driving some enthusiasm for creative things.

SPEAKER_03 44:27

Yeah, oh I'm sure you will. Yeah, no, I'm sure. And children that will have read your books will be very excited about that.

SPEAKER_04 44:33

I hope so, I hope so, yeah. Like in dreaming that it all goes wrong.

SPEAKER_03 44:36

Oh, don't worry. We do that as teachers. Sunday night. You wouldn't believe the dreams we get. No, you'll be fine. I'm sure once you've done the first one, you'll be much more relaxed.

unknown 44:50

I'm more excited.

SPEAKER_04 44:51

I think I'm excited for it. I need to remember that it'll be a really exciting opportunity. So you guys do it every day, so that is encouraging.

SPEAKER_03 45:00

Yes. Oh, well, sounds very exciting. So yeah, lots to look forward to. Thank you ever so much. This has been lovely, and I will definitely be shouting all about the book and taking it into school, sharing it with my own class. So thank you so much.

SPEAKER_04 45:16

Okay, fantastic. And if any um any teachers who eventually see this uh have any questions or anything if they want to stick it in the comments or message me or whatever I'm always around, so amazing.

SPEAKER_02 45:25

Lovely, thank you so much, James. Lovely to see you. See you soon. Bye.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

There we go. That was my interview with the wonderful James Fox, author of Boy versus Reality. It is an incredible book, so I do highly, highly recommend that you read it if you haven't yet. And if you would like to be a part of Teacher Book Club and you are not at the moment, then please do join us. All of the details are on our Instagram underscore Teacher Book Club. And if you follow myself and Teacher Book Club, then you will see all of our other live author chats as well, and all of the info about the books that we are reading currently. You can also subscribe to our book boxes, which you will receive every other month, including the book that is voted for by you, and it's always a surprise, which is super exciting when it comes through your door. And it's also always got fantastic resources from Grammasaurus and is put together by the wonderful VIP reading. So, again, details for all of that are on our Instagram too. Thank you so much for listening. I really hope you enjoyed this episode, and we'll be back for more very soon.