Sophie Kirtley: ‘Swanfall’

Welcome to episode 40, season 3, of the Teacher Book Club Podcast!

This is a recording of our author chat all about the book we read in January/February, with author Sophie Kirtley!

Tara had the pleasure of speaking to amazing author Sophie Kirtley about her new middle grade children’s book, ‘Swanfall.’ Tara asked our Teacher Book Club questions and gave her our book clubber’s thoughts too! It was great hearing all about the ideas behind the book, the messages behind it and the best bits to write. We hope you love listening to it as much as we loved recording it!

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Disclaimer: This is recorded from a video call, so we apologise if some of the sound is not the best quality.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Hello and welcome back to the Teach Book Club podcast. My name is Tara. You may know me as Tara's Teaching, and I run Teach Book Club and all of our amazing author live chats. So today's episode is from our live chat in February with author Sophie Kirtley. So we had read her book Swanfall, amazing book, should I say. We read her wonderful, amazing book, Swanfall, uh, in January and February earlier this year, and absolutely loved it. And then we had the amazing opportunity to get to talk to her all about it. So that is today's interview that you get to listen back to. So I'm going to read you the blurb of the book first just to give you a bit of an idea of what the story is about if you haven't read it yourself. Pip lives with mum in their in their isolated cottage on the wetlands. Pip struggles to feel like he fits in at school, but at home, amongst nature, he fit he truly feels he can be himself. Just like every winter, Pip is waiting for the swan fall, when the flock of majestic Arctic swans return from Siberia on their annual migration. He knows every swan by their unique markings, and he loves to help Mum record the flock as they saw shining through the sky to their home. But this December, Pip's favourite three swans haven't appeared. Instead, Pip notices strange footprints in the snow, whispers on the wind, and the sense that someone is watching him. Something mysterious is afoot, and the adventure to discover the truth leads Pip to follow clues to an ancient curse that he had always believed was simply a fairy tale. So there you go. Very enticing, very intriguing. It is a little bit spooky, a little bit magical, and very, very mysterious. Totally gripping as well. So I had an amazing time getting to speak to Sophie all about it and all of her fantastic ideas. So I hope you enjoy our chat.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

That's not my old stinky laptop. Yay! This is what we want. Can you hear me okay? I can.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

Can you hear me alright?

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Yes, I can. Hello, we've made it.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

I know, it's lovely to see you.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

It's lovely to see you too. Oh, I'm sorry to the stressful bit's gone now. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely all the tech, and I am happy. Well done.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

Hello, very excited to speak to you this evening. We have adored Swanfall, absolutely loved it.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

Oh, I'm so pleased.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

So we've got lots to talk about. Um, we had our group chat off our teacher book club at the weekend, so we've discussed everything. And so I'm really excited to tell you all of our thoughts and obviously in a good way, of course. Oh, amazing. Did you want to start by maybe giving us a bit of a summary of the story first?

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Yeah, gladly. We're a very putting Swornfall, baby. Mine's a very battered one that's been on lots of school visits. Oh, lovely. Had me flicking through it and scribbling in it. Um, but yeah, so Swornfall, um, it's the story of this chap here who's Pip, and Pip lives on a very wild, isolated wetland in a little cottage just with mum. And Pip loves nature more than anything else, and especially the swans that come to the wetland that migrate there every winter from Siberia.

unknown 4:01

Um, but the story really kicks off when one winter Pip's favourite swans don't return.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

And so it's the story of what happens then as Pip and his friends start to unravel the mystery of what's happened to the swans, and at the same time stumble across another mystery which is going on in Puritan, which is their village, um, or which went on in their village uh many, many years ago. So it's a story of intertwining stories, and very much one that's inspired by this place, this um frozen wetland um setting. Lovely.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

So, your inspiration kind of where did that come from for the story?

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Um well two places really. Number one, the real place um behind the setting, which is Slimbridge Wetland Centre. Um I don't know if you know it's near Bristol, it's just a wee bit north of Bristol, which isn't far from where I live now.

SPEAKER_03 5:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

And um it's really, really gorgeous there. And during lockdown, I can't remember, I was down some sort of research wormhole, and I stumbled upon the story of the swans um that the real life swans that migrate to Slimbridge. And um, in the story, they're called Arctic swans, but they're based on a real swan called Buick swans. And why they're amazing is not just because they can they migrate, I love migratory birds, but um also because they are each one is individual and you can tell them apart, just ordinary people can tell them apart because they've all got different bill markings. Um, and the person who discovered that these swans were actually unique, um, I think it was in the 60s, and it was actually Daphala Scott, who was only 10 years old or 11 years old at the time, and they lived on the wetlands, her and her father, Peter Scott, who was like the son of Scott of the Antarctic Scott, so they're like a very, you know, well-known family. And um, so they were watching the wetlands, and she actually was able to identify swans as they came back in winter after winter, and noticed that it wasn't just swans returning, but it was particular exact swans. So we began to name them, recognize them as they came back, recognize their signets as they came back, and it was whole families returning, coming and going. And I just thought it was such a wonderful idea, and it's such a beautiful place, and all my books have been quite seasonal. I hadn't written a wintry one, so everything conspired together. So inspired by the real life swans, but also inspired by stories that I grew up with in Ireland, particularly the story of the children of Lear.

unknown 6:52

Um I've got a little version of it here, which is a gorgeous one, um, illustrated by Connor Busito, who's an Irish illustrator and retold by Laura Ruth Mayer.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Um, but yeah, so it's a really gorgeous swan story, and I started investigating swan stories in myths from all cultures, and yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:13

Amazing swans. Love it. No, it's fascinating. Oh, it's beautiful. I feel like I've learned so much about swans as well whilst reading it, which is lovely.

SPEAKER_03 7:25

Me too, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:26

I bet. I bet, yeah, it's lovely, and I just love, like you say, there's kind of different storylines that intertwine throughout the story, which yeah, is great, keeps you really gripped. Um, so I've got a few questions to ask you, but I'm also then going to tell you how we answered those questions in our chat on Sunday as well.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Great.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

So my first question is who is your favourite character and why?

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Oh, I think favourites are always so cruel. I don't always want favourites at school visits as well. It always makes me feel terrible. Um I adore Pip. Pip, I loved he was actually in The Haunting of Fortune Far. I was a small boy. And often this happens in a story. I'm writing about someone and they don't get the limelight, and I think, ooh, you deserve a story of your own. So um I do love Pip himself. I like the sort of transformational journey that he goes on.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Um, I really enjoy that. Um, but I also have a soft spot for all of them, for all of his friends in an authoring way. I've got a real um I love writing my bad, bad, baddy. I always like being baddy. So, but Pip's got a heart, definitely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

No, understandable. And I knew I knew I knew the name, I knew that I recognised his character. Yeah, Padge of confirmed that for me.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Did you um in your chats have favourite characters?

SPEAKER_02 9:00

Yes, so lots of people really liked Erin. Um, they said she was strong-willed, not afraid to tell the boys what to do when needed, um, which we love, a strong, independent female. Um, but also, yeah, lots loved Pip as well. Um, people said how in tune he was with the swans and their songs, that was really beautiful. Um, I liked Pip, I think, for his passion and his knowledge of the swans, um, but also I think seeing how he had kind of insecurities and fears, but then he just really worked through them throughout the story. I think that was lovely to see that kind of development for him throughout the story. Um, others also liked, is it Hannif?

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Yeah, that's what I say and same with my head.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

Yeah, um, he was just so kind and I think such an invaluable member of the group. Um, and I think it was also great to kind of see how scared he was because I think Pip saw him as a totally different person to what we actually found out that he was, so that was really nice to see.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Yeah, I really he was a character I worked quite hard on because he just had so many facets, and I think we see this in real children, don't we, as well? In different contexts, they have different angles, and yeah, I I really just when you talked about him there, I my heart warmed. I thought, oh yeah, I love writing him as well. Yeah, loads of fun writing Tomo too, just because he's so fun and so I could really hear his voice in my head so loudly.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

Yeah, we needed him as well, because he was kind of he had the energy, didn't he?

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it's funny because prior to this one fall, I've always really struggled to hold a cast of many of my stories. I like having quite sort of intimate, close friendships and exploring those between two characters. So I felt quite sort of terrified when all these other characters suddenly popped up, and I was like, oh my goodness, what am I gonna do with you? But I think they were so distinct. Um that yeah, it it it was a really enjoyable process for me. Sort of meeting them sounds silly, but you know, no, I bet.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

Yeah, I'm sure they become your friends as you're writing them.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Yeah, I spent a lot of time with people.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

Yeah, exactly. No, that's really lovely. I've just seen a comment. Um, Lewis has said it was a really great book. Oh, so my next question is what was your favourite part of the story and why, and maybe your favourite part to have written?

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Oh, well, it's funny because quite often I think books come in two hours, and I really enjoyed everything about the setting and just building it and describing it and picturing it in my mind. And um, I went, I did a research trip to Slimbridge in the heart of winter, and creating that all the notes that I took on that trip really came to life in the book. But there's always a moment in a story where it almost takes on a life of its own and sort of begins not like to write itself, but it just it's happening quicker than I can catch almost. And um, and I always know when that happens that it's going to be exciting to read. So I think once they um it's funny because I can talk spoilers, can't I?

SPEAKER_02 12:29

It's up to you. I don't mind.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

I'm always so cautious. It's difficult, isn't it? I'm always so cautious. I so I never want to say too much. Um, but the point from which they cross over to the other side of the river um of the estuary, um once that starts happening and the action starts rolling, and then it's just danger after danger after danger after danger.

unknown 12:53

And it I it genuinely makes me quite breathless.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

But yeah, I really, really enjoy um, I really enjoyed writing um the other side of the river section um just because of all the peril.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

Oh, absolutely amazing. We all said though how fantastically you have written it because it is so fast-paced, so action-packed. Um, and I think like even the short chapters, it just means it's such a page turner, um, which children, you know, they're gonna lap it up, aren't they? That's what they need to keep them going, keep that momentum up.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

It's funny because while I'm writing in my mind, I have my character to very real, the story, but I very strongly have a child at the other end. That's why I'm not an adult writing, it's nothing to speak to you, but not an adult writing for other adults. I've very much got a child, I'm picturing a child at the other end, and I know um that you want that feeling of satisfaction, like I'm on to the next chapter now, I'm on to the next chapter. And I love that. I've also kind of got a parent in my head, so when I've got a little voice going, oh, just one more chapter, then um the parent voice or the teacher voice thinking, Oh, we've only got five minutes, so you shouldn't be in bed, is um hopefully um going, yes, okay, you can have one more chapter.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Because it's over it's a few pages, it's fine, we can squeeze it in. Yeah, oh no, that's brilliant to hear. Um, so a few of our favourite parts, um, one person said the ending, maybe won't say too much about the ending in case maybe that is a huge spoiler. Um, but just the children kind of meeting who was on the other side of the estuary, I think. Um that was great, and defeating people, I think was a brilliant moment. Um, also when the children worked together to rescue Pip and work together to make sure that he was okay, that he was safe after being submerged. Um, and also the idea of using Times Tables. So this was when um Erin, sorry, this was when Erin was in the quicksand. Um, the Times Tables I thought was brilliant, I think, as a teacher, thinking that's great, we can use them at any point. Um that was yeah, just really lovely to hear and made me laugh to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

But it's funny because there is a kind of I remember this from when my own children were learning theirs. It's kind of it comes almost with the rhythm of a little prayer or something, something that you just know off by heart. Yeah.

unknown 15:24

There's a stability to that and an inevitability, and I think that's something you know, at moments of danger, what can you hold on to?

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Just something really, really solid. Yeah. And that and in a way, that was the first thing that just popped into my mind. Yeah. Also when I'm writing, because I used to be a teacher as well, I used to teach English um in secondary schools. Yeah. So I do have a little teacher hat that still sits in my head. I remember writing so many short passages when I was teaching just to exemplify something. And even while I'm writing now, I'm thinking, oh, that'd be quite good for alliteration. Oh, yeah, I can do writing. I I can imagine that being used for such a thing. So it really, really delights me to speak to teachers or just to imagine. I love to imagine a child exploring books themselves, but I also love to imagine the book being shared in a classroom and having people having chats about it, or you know, getting excited, or even teachers using it to point things out. So, yes, tables to be remarkable. Yep, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

No, I did, I just thought that was brilliant. Um, someone also said that they loved how the library bus was included. In fact, this was my friend Lucy. She said um one of her favourite things at school as a child and even as a teacher is when the library bus comes. And I thought that was lovely. I do remember it as a child, but we don't have one come to our the school that I teach at, and I just wish that we did. That's such a lovely element.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

Totally, and I remember that too from from being we and I think it's because I lived in in the country in a very, very small school, yeah. And again, I just think that the place of a library, um, you know, whether it's a physical library that you can go to or one that comes to you, and it's such a magical feeling. Yeah. I loved my librarian, Basil. You know, I just felt like he the I can't remember the exact line, but it was something I wrote around the introduction of him. He had that sort of special librarian magical power to almost um prescribe books to fit the child that um you know that needs that book, and I think that's the the absolute superpower of librarians, just being able to identify matchmaking almost that'll work for you, and also you know, reading teachers as well. You know your children, you know what they want to read, and yeah, I think it's a great thing.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

Yeah, no, definitely it's lovely. Um, I also just loved all of the scary, spooky elements. Um, I just yeah, for me that was what made it such a page turner because I mean, as an adult, I don't like watching anything scary and wouldn't read a scary adult book. So for me, this was perfect because the drama was just at the right pitch, and I think it's gonna be perfect as well for children. They're gonna love the kind of spookier parts as well.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Yeah, I'm exactly like you. I don't like scary things. I didn't as a child, and um I kind of don't really know quite where this is come from. The Holy Fortune 1 scary story.

SPEAKER_02 18:28

Yeah, I loved it though.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

What's going on? Why am I being such a whip? Why am I writing scary stories?

unknown 18:35

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

But it it is the again, it's something really, really fun to do as a writer, just to sort of almost scaring yourself. Like, do you ever when you were little, did you ever sort of look in a mirror and think, oh, I can't look at it for something like a point behind me?

SPEAKER_03 18:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

The things that you sort of frighten yourself with are almost the scariest things of all. So I wonder if that's what what I've been up to with this video. I really enjoyed writing those bits.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

Oh, I bet, yeah, that kind of adrenaline rush that you must get from it.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

Yeah, terrifying myself.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

No, that is absolutely brilliant. Um, but yeah, we'd lots of us talked about kind of the tension and build-up to different parts. Um, I also did really like when um Tomo went missing um and kind of the twist there with what they saw and what they thought they saw. Um, that was really good as well.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

Yeah, I like I like that. I quite like I don't ever play tricks on my readers in a mean way, but I do quite like to play with perception and what you think and assumptions and to play with what you expect something or someone to do or be, and then it to be different from that. I I think it's uh it's always a a sleight of hand that I really admire in writing when it catches me out, and so I quite like to um to kind of play with that with the reader as well. Um I think I've always quite enjoyed that sort of little trick.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

Yeah, that's great though, because you don't want it to be predictable, do you? And so when there are little twists like that, it's great, it keeps you on your toes. Yeah, keeps you guessing. Yeah, that's brilliant. So my next question is have you got a favourite quote from the book?

SPEAKER_00 20:27

I think a lot about this question, and it's hard because again I was thinking, Oh, I don't want to go too near the ends, but spoilery. And then I realized what I really love and what I really enjoyed writing were the swan songs, as I called them in my head, the little bits um of verse, and I for a long time I only really wrote poetry because I was teaching and I didn't I was like snatching little moments in the day, and my own children were very little, and I just didn't have uh enough time to get a story going in my head. So I wrote a lot of poems, and the poetry is still very much there and comes out in little snippets in all my books. So I really enjoyed um those little whispers coming in sort of from the sides, just a bit strange. So just the very, very beginning, the opening, um slightly weird opening poem, and you don't know who's saying or where it's coming from. Yeah, I'll read to you. Well, the world is asleep, we fly by the stars, it's safer this way, under cover of dark. We fly over snow and frozen seas, dreaming of how things used to be. When once we were loved, when once we were free. Beautiful. Intriguing, creepy. You're not on safe grind. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:59

No, I know. Lovely way to start the book as well. You're straight away drawn in.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

Yeah. Or mystified at least.

SPEAKER_02 22:06

Exactly, definitely. So I'll read you a few of the quotes that people picked out. So one was being someone's friend is about trust, really, letting yourself fall and trusting someone else to catch you. That's really lovely.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

I really believe in that too.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Definitely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

It's funny, you probably can read these things to eternal, and I'm thinking, oh yeah, that sounds good. That's nice. Yeah, but sounds alright though.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

No, there's lots, it's lovely. Um, someone mentioned um the paragraph where Pip realizes that sometimes things are better shared, um, which again is a lovely kind of friendship moment as well for him. Um, I we've talked about kind of the tension, lots of people spoke about different quotes, included, you know, thinking about the story building up and those moments where you end the chapter on a cliffhanger, ready for the next one. Um, yeah, which we all really, really enjoyed. Um, and you said earlier about descriptions as well, and like you say, from being a teacher, you are in that mindset of thinking, oh, this would be a great one to pick out, and that is absolutely how we all read it. Um, there were so many that I pointed out and thought, yeah, and saving that, that's gonna be great when we talk about adjectives, you know, it's brilliant. So lots of those were discussed as well. Um, and someone said at the beginning of the book um to Pip the Swanfall had a kind of magic he could never quite explain. It made him feel like everything was right in the world, as if just like the Arctic swans, he too had somehow landed settled and safe for the winter, which is lovely. How he can relate to the swans, I think that's brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

Oh, that's lovely. And it's funny as you were saying that, it made me realise that actually that feeling that he gets only from the swans at the beginning, that sort of sense of belonging and safety. I kind of feel like by the end of the book he has that feeling from the humans in his life a bit more as well, and from his his people form, you know, yeah, the the friends that he's made. Um just as we're reading it, I've had that thought because I think the friendships within it, and I really enjoyed exploring friendship and a child's eye view of friendship and his sort of vulnerabilities at the beginning and how they move through at the end.

SPEAKER_02 24:44

It's interesting that lots of you had um sort of pulled out quotes about friendship and um definitely stuck out for us, I think. Yeah. And you saying about the flock, what another quote that was picked out was maybe in a funny way, he too had found his flock, which just summarizes that, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 25:03

Yeah, totally. And and it very much it's funny because the story it evolved to be that. You know, at the beginning of writing it, I knew it was about swans, but I didn't really know it was about friendship, and I think with those with the characters that we were chatting about earlier with um, you know, the children, that their friendship, that's something that kind of happened by itself within the story in a way, and actually it is what it's about at the end of the day, finding your thought, but I didn't sort of know that until quite far through with the story. So yeah, it's just kind of interesting how it happens.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

Definitely, which pretty much leads me on to the next question. What do you want readers to remember and sort of take away from the book?

SPEAKER_00 25:52

I always really would like I I don't want my books to be sort of didactic or um sort of teacherly or too sort of Victorian and moralist. But I I want my books to get a lot of joy and pleasure and heart racing moments and you know, all the the things that I read for and you read for, you know, just for the sheer terribility and the the fun of it. Um, you know, I never want to lose track of the the fun amidst kind of message. Um but at the same time I think in all of my books I would love just even just one child to be like, yeah, I know what you mean. I get that, I hear you. Or or an adult who reflects on that as that part of their childhood. And I think the subtleties and the significance of friendship for children, especially at that sort of upper key stage two time when it's just becoming a little bit heavier, you know, not just playing alongside, they're not just sort of playing with it's not the sort of malleability of friendship when they're really little and they can be friends with anyone. Yeah, they start to kind of uh gain weight and um and can be really upsetting and troubling and hard to navigate. So I think that key things really are just about sort of having faith in other humans to to be good and to be good to you and and that quote that someone shared from earlier about letting yourself fall into other people and be ready to be caught. You know, I I like that idea and um yeah. Yeah, I know too.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

Yeah, that's really lovely. Um, so lots of us talked about kind of togetherness and working as a team, how that can solve a problem, and we've you know talked very much about how they work together and the characters maybe at the start weren't a team but came together and had had to in lots of moments, um, really come together and help one another. Um, yes, we talked a lot about that, but also the importance of friendships. Um, I think at the start it seemed that Pip sort of struggled to trust other people, um, and he just wanted that one best friend to himself and couldn't see how he could possibly have other friends and you know they could come into the group. Um, so yeah, that I think Pip learnt a lot from the new friendships, and he then found his flock, as we've said, which was lovely. And you're right, I mean, yeah, friendships for that age I think can be really, really tricky and have lots of ups and downs. So I think for children to read it and see that Pip initially felt that way, but things worked out and you know they helped one another, I think that would be good for children to read and see that reality.

SPEAKER_03 28:51

Yeah, I hope so.

SPEAKER_02 28:53

Yeah, no, I think so, definitely. Um, yeah, so belonging, finding their flock um was talked about lots as well. Um and oh, someone also said about the importance of books. Um, so about in your acknowledgement at the end, um, talking about how Pip's adventure starts with the discovery of a book, um, and then as we said, talking about kind of the folklore side of things, which was lovely, and the book bus. Yeah, as book lovers we liked that.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Me too. Any excuse for um a book in a book or a library or whatever, you know. I I do, I think that they're always very significant and um yeah, yeah, not not accidental.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

Yes, no, no, well, we're all book lovers here, so we're all pleased with that. And anything to encourage children to pick up a book, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazing. Um, so my next question is which other character's point of view would you like to hear the story from? So obviously it was told in third person but focused mostly on kind of Pip's perspective and followed him through the story and his thoughts a little bit more. Um, so is there anyone else who you would maybe like to hear the story from?

SPEAKER_00 30:10

It's such a such an interesting question.

unknown 30:13

And I do always when I've got a story, I'm sort of trying to hear the different characters' own voices and their own perspectives.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

And I think that there's often another book hidden within each each character could have been a book and it could take a book of a completely different story. I'm quite interested in Tomo and his family life, which is just sort of touched on and hinted at. In the back of my head, I feel like I sort of know it all.

unknown 30:43

Um, but I feel like I feel like he could easily have a book of his own. And I don't think necessarily it would be the story, this story from his point of view. No, but I feel like he's a character I really enjoyed and felt he could have his own story. In fact, all of the children really could easily own a book of their own.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

And I think it's um as I get to know them while I'm writing, I often think, oh, you know, I don't want to say that you know, I don't know what but I think you could just keep going like that forever. But I think especially Tom O is a character I'd like to explore further. Perspective in the story though. Um I mean there is in a sense swan perspective through the the little um uh swan songs through the little poetry inserts.

unknown 31:34

But I'm also really interested in the Children of Lear myth, and I've written in the past poetry from the point of view of Vanula, who's the um uh the an older the older sister in the Children of Lear story. Um and I'm really interested in her. I'm often interested in girls' voices in fairy tales and myths.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

So if it's not too far removed, I'd love to explore the children of Lear myth itself through uh her perspective or the children's perspective in more with more focus because I'm trying not to give too much away. Lovely, that's something another thing that I'd be interested to do. Yeah, I've given you about 20 answers there.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

I'm sorry. That's great. No, amazing. I'm probably gonna give you 20 more now. So some people said um Tommo um like to know a bit more about um how he felt and kind of the feelings of anger and jealousy from Pip, maybe seeing his perspective from that, um, and because he was such a lovable character and made us laugh. So I think hearing his voice more would be really great. Um and then also, yeah, in fact, the part where he went into the woods and got lost, seeing what happened and finding out more from that part of the story, I think would be interesting. Some people said too. Um Hannif as well, um, interesting to see kind of how his anxiety played out throughout the story and hearing those inner thoughts from him, I think might be quite comforting maybe for lots of children, kind of knowing that that's how he felt, and others could feel like that in those situations. Um, because I think there were some quite scary situations, so very understandable that he had those concerns.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

I'm not very nice to my characters, really, in terrible situations.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

Oh well, I felt for him, I could agree, I think. Um I also think Mrs. de Bloom, I know we haven't talked too much about her, but I think just hearing everything from her side would be very intriguing, very mysterious and interesting. I would love that side.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Yeah, absolutely. A young Mrs. De Bloom can you imagine?

SPEAKER_02 33:59

Yeah, yeah, fantastic. Yeah, I think, yeah, that would be amazing. I don't think you'd want her in your class. No, possibly not. Yeah, I think she'll have a few stories to tell.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

Yeah, exactly. Oh, I had so much fun writing her.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

Oh, okay, yeah. You've always got to have, you know, the good and the bad, haven't you? So that must be a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

If I've got a badie I really like just thinking about what made them bad, thinking about their backstory, you know, just sort of exploring, yeah, sort of what that actually means and that kind of thing.

unknown 34:36

Again, it's quite interesting stuff to to chat to children about when when they make baddies of their own.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

Yeah, I always really enjoy doing that with in workshops and things. Yeah, lovely. Good chat. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

Yeah, looking at the backstories. Amazing. Oh, well, thank you so much, Sophie. Uh, has been lovely speaking to you. Have you got anything in the pipeline? Are you writing at the moment you can look forward to?

SPEAKER_00 35:04

I haven't revised my own book prior to chatting. I'm still in the middle of what I'm writing at the moment. Um it's very much first randy, but um, yeah, I'm hugely enjoying it. It's sort of um it's set in a war, a very abstract kind of war that feels like it's pulling together lots of different things. Um, but it's not historical like um many of my books have been. It's kind of scary, but it's not spooky. So it feels like something a little bit new, but at the moment it's like trying to hold on to uh about uh 30 different dogs on leads, all pulling in different directions, and then there's other ones that are off their leads, and uh it's all chaos, but it's in that stage of writing, but I'm really enjoying it. I'm enjoying all the dogs.

SPEAKER_02 35:55

Yeah. Try to tame them all.

SPEAKER_00 35:59

Exactly. But yeah, thank you for asking. Although you probably would regret it if you actually saw the mess at the minute. Okay, it won't be gorgeous, and it will be a proper book, it looks like a lot less messy.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

Lovely. Well, that's very exciting to hear. So, yeah, we'll look forward to that in the future. Amazing. Thank you so much, it's been lovely. We have adored the book, so I can't wait to take it into my school and share it with lots of children.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

Oh, I'm so pleased. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much for um choosing the book. You're welcome for bookbooks and everything. It's just such a treat. I'm so delighted that um you've enjoyed reading it. And yeah, so thank you. You're very welcome.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

No, thank you. And hopefully, we'll get to speak again soon.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

Indeed, I love that. Lovely. Thanks so much. Speak soon, bye.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

There we go. That was my amazing chat with author Sophie Kirtley. I had a great time getting to speak to her all about the fantastic Swan Fool, and as Teacher Book Club, we really enjoyed reading it in January and February this year. And if you are lucky enough to subscribe to our VIP Reading book boxes, then you will have received the book in the box as well as all of the amazing goodies that came with it. This box is available to purchase as an individual box on the VIP Reading website. They are also our sponsors for the podcast, so we are very grateful to them for all of their support. And if you haven't subscribed to our book boxes, then head over to the VIP Reading website, or equally find us or them on Instagram, and you will be able to head straight there to subscribe. It is an amazing offer, and we absolutely love being put in partnership with VIP Reading because the book boxes are a great part of our book club and we love receiving them every other month. And if you don't know, you have the opportunity as being part of our book club to actually vote for the book that we read. So we've recently voted for our next book, uh, but that won't be until next month now. So we are currently enjoying one, but the next one will be at the start of July, and that is when the next book boxes will be arriving too. So if you subscribe now, they will arrive on your doorstep in July. So thank you ever so much for listening to today's episode, and I will try and get better at uploading them more frequently. I get a little bit of a backlog as I am trying to do an interview a week at the moment with so many wonderful authors, which is so incredible, and I really hope that you enjoy getting to listen to them as well as watch them on Instagram. But yes, so thank you for listening, and another episode should be up quite soon.