ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
Explore the transformative journey that is leadership. In each episode, we will dive deep into strategies, stories, insights, and the core values that shape and inspire effective Christian leaders who make an impact - all around the globe. Get ready to unlock your leadership potential.
When leaders are equipped, kingdom impact multiplies. Equipping leaders and spreading the Gospel. Let’s change history together!
This podcast is brought to you by the International Leadership Institute.
ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
Ep 45 | Empowering Women: How to Lead with Purpose
Ever felt overwhelmed by life's challenges? Join ILI’s Katie and Shannon, and find encouragement as we discuss the power of surrender and the importance of prioritizing spiritual practices in your leadership. Drawing inspiration from the lives of incredible spiritual leaders from the past and they help us see the ripple effect of these disciplined female leaders and their impact on us today.
Shannon and Katie share personal stories, including their own struggles with balancing motherhood and spiritual devotion, reminding us of the strength that comes from staying grounded in God's word and prayer.
Discover how women, regardless of their roles, can lead with conviction and trust in God's vision for their lives. Explore transformative lessons from Mary in John 12 and Deborah's bold leadership as a prophet and judge. Also reflect on the influence of raising children in a Christian home and how everyday acts of leadership can spark profound change.
Learn to recognize the strength of a supportive community of women and appreciate the invaluable role of fellowship in ministry and during trying times. You will see how your platform is a testament to the power of community, offering resources and support to women worldwide. We hope you are encouraged to seek God’s guidance and remain faithful to your unique calling in your journey of ministry and leadership.
When you begin ILI training, you will discover how the Eight Core Values will lead to the Seven Outcomes in your life and the lives of those you lead. Join a community of leaders who are ready to change history and make an impact in this world. Discover more at ILITeam.org/connect.
Welcome to the History Makers Leadership Podcast, where we explore the transformative journey that is leadership. Each episode, we will dive deep into strategies, stories, insights and the core values that shape and inspire effective Christian leaders who make an impact all around the globe. This podcast is brought to you by the International Leadership Institute. Now get ready to unlock your leadership potential and let's change history together.
Speaker 2:Hey everyone, welcome to the History Makers Leadership Podcast. I'm Katie. I'm joined today with Shannon. We actually both work here at the International Leadership Institute and I'm really excited today because we're going to jump into a conversation centered on biblical leadership for women. And I think I'm excited because it really is just a time to talk about encouraging those that are listening. Encouraging, inspiring, talking about what you can do where you are right now and being faithful in your leadership to just spread the gospel where you are.
Speaker 2:So, I'm excited to jump in. I pray that this really does lead you to do what God is calling you to do, to make a difference. And whether you think you have no vision, whether you think you are just a stay-at-home mom or just working at a grocery store or wherever, insert your calling in life. I just pray that today you feel God laying it on your heart that he does have a vision for you. He loves, he cares for you and he's wanting you to step in and do ministry. So, shannon, let's jump in.
Speaker 3:Let's jump in. I know I'm going to get fired up.
Speaker 1:Let's just jump in.
Speaker 2:I know I'm going to get fired up, let's just jump out. I really want to talk about first what's really important for us as we lead as women is to be biblically centered. So in your mind, what are some of the characteristics of a biblically centered woman leading in ministry?
Speaker 4:That's a great question. There are so many, but I think for me personally, some of the top qualities of that in women that we see in the Bible that we get to learn from, of course, you know the Proverbs 31 woman working tirelessly, supporting their family, but character wise, some of those women in there that have persevered, that have overcome just the mindset of the culture and the biblical times that they overcame. A specific woman that I think of is Mary, the one in John 12 who washed the feet of Jesus, and just the significance of her boldness. Because I think it's because I struggle with boldness and so when I see boldness in women in the Bible it just encourages me to be bold in my faith. And so her boldness to walk into that party and break the expensive jar open and wash Jesus's feet with her hair and her tears, amongst jeering people there who didn't understand what she was doing, but yet Christ says the story will be told everywhere, the gospel shared.
Speaker 4:And that boldness that she had to just obey the Spirit's prompting and essentially she was preparing Christ for birth or for his death, you know. And so that just stands out to me sometimes when I struggle with you know. Can I know what I'm supposed to be doing, what should I do? How strongly is in this moment should I be in my faith? And that just always encourages me. When you feel God prompting you or or giving you this unction to do something, just to obey you know, with boldness and faithfulness, and leave the results and those things up to him, in those moments I just have to ask do you think Mary had doubt in her mind?
Speaker 2:Do you think she questioned if somebody was going to think differently of her or if they were going to judge her or if it wasn't going to be received well from Jesus? Do you think she questioned all of that? I don't know but I would. We don't know, the Bible doesn't tell us but yeah.
Speaker 4:I would say I would lean towards yes, simply because it's human nature, you know. I mean, it reminds me literally of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane. It's not that he was doubting what he was supposed to do, but he was like is there another way? If this cup can pass, but not my will, your will be done. And I think in the same way for us as women. So often, you know, we struggle with how are we, when are we going to know if we raised our kids right? When do we find that out? It's a little too late by the time you realize issues that your children may have later on in life. So you just have to trust God and raise them in a way that honors him, you know, and with everything in our life, you know, just pushing through those moments of doubt, because I do think there was probably some of that there that she had to overcome and push through, but we, just we don't have her story Right.
Speaker 2:Right, I think we hear these stories in the Bible and think like that. They did that with such courage and maybe they did. But there's probably a lot on the back end that we don't see, with overcoming doubt and fears and still choosing, in the face of those doubts or fears, to step into what God is calling them to. And for me, one of the qualities that I see for biblical leadership for women is leading through that vision. So you know, a lot of women will argue that they don't have a vision that. Let's take the instance of a stay-at-home mom who says I'm just a stay at home mom and we both have two boys and so we know raising boys mine are a little bit younger than yours and people that are in our circles are stay at home moms and they have said that to me before.
Speaker 2:I'm just a stay at home mom and my argument there is God has more for you in raising those children than, I would say, any other profession in the world, anything. Because what if Billy Graham's mom said I'm just raising kids? You know, look at what happened when she raised those kids in a Christian home and prayed with them and led them, and then that man goes on to help lead thousands and hundreds of thousands to Christ. And she could have said I'm just a stay at home mom. But so when I, when I think about where we are as women no matter if you're a stay at home mom or working a job God has a vision. So how are you leading with that vision? And if and if you've never thought about that, whether you're a mom or working some corporate job, now's the time to do that. It's a great.
Speaker 2:No better time than right now to pause your life, to pause for a moment and say God, what is the vision that you want me to lead through? Because we can go through and check the boxes pretty easily. But God is calling us. We see in the Bible, I see with these women in the Bible, that that he's calling you to have a vision that would be in pursuit of him and sharing his name, and so, anyways, that's one of the qualities I I tend to think about is leading through that vision, wherever you are.
Speaker 4:I love that, Katie, and as you're talking, it reminds me of Moses's mom. She had a vision to save his life, you know, and that's somewhat of a dramatic story, but in the same way God honored her pursuit to do that. She had to give up her son in order to honor God's vision and his plan for what she was supposed to do with her kid, and it made absolutely no sense probably to people in that time period. But in the same way, us hearing and listening and taking that time just to seek God, what is his vision for our life?
Speaker 4:I remember when I felt God, through an ILI event, put in my heart that his vision for my life was to disciple my kids, I felt like kind of depleted because it was like man, you hear all these people who start orphanages or you know ministries or businesses and they're just killing it and and raising kids. So for me I was like that's it and, long story short, I ended up repenting because I was like what greater gift and vision could I possibly have? You know, everything else does kind of fall to the wayside and that is the priority. But if that's not the priority, then it falls to the wayside, and so for me. That was a moment to really remind me of my priorities and to live in God's vision for my life and know that that's number one right now, until number one changes and they've moved on and they have their own families and such. But yeah, I love that vision. That's really important.
Speaker 2:And I think what you said, too, really brings to mind surrender. I think until you come to the place where you can surrender your desires as you know, if you are a mom, there is a dual desire there how am I going to succeed as a mom?
Speaker 1:or how am.
Speaker 2:I going to succeed, as maybe you are working or maybe you have, you know, other aspirations, but but that doesn't always align when we desire things. You know. God says he'll give us the desires of our heart but, I, think that means when we surrender fully to him yeah and so I think of a biblical leader as being a woman that is surrendered, fully surrendered, to God and, like you said, if not, you're probably strife there. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Your internal conflict is kind of wondering if you're doing the right thing or maybe you're not feeling fully fulfilled in that. But I think that's where we question have we fully surrendered to God in what he wants for our life? And the vision that he's calling us to.
Speaker 4:So I love that and, you know, it reminds me of two things. First of all, that we all have different seasons, some seasons we're killing it and some we aren't.
Speaker 4:And we need reminders and hopefully this podcast is catching you in a moment that maybe you do need that reminder. Maybe you're killing it, that's awesome, but if you need the reminder, just keep on keeping on and surround Yourself with Christian women and community. Stay in your Word as much as you can and also Hear stories of other people who have overcome and who have, you know, persevered. Perseverance is such a quality in our society today. We can quit anything Marriages you can like, quit for 500 bucks and there's a lack of perseverance, especially in women that I've seen and I've talked to. We just get overwhelmed and bombarded so much, especially through Instagram and influencers.
Speaker 4:Lots of live up to yes and they even say at 12 years old, like girls are changing because of the influence and it's it's specific to our gender, so it's not just canceling out the the things that men struggle with, but specifically for women today. But that reminds me that you have such a unique role here where you get to hear stories constantly Some we publish, some we don't. So I'd really be interested to hear maybe some of those stories that have really impacted you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I feel so privileged to get to sit in this seat, especially with me. I'm communications so I get to publish some of these stories and work with these women who I think for us sitting as an international organization, most women would never be able to say that they get to see women from literally around the world that we are personally connected with and see how they are pursuing ministry in their country.
Speaker 2:And it looks different across the world. So these leaders are genuinely some of them are working through some of the difficult situations, most difficult circumstances in terms of persecution and you know just women not being valued. And getting over those obstacles and still seeing them be bold and step up to serve Jesus truly inspires me. I just think about one leader, hannah. She's in the Middle East and you know Hannah is in a place where, you know, christianity isn't easy and women being especially not easy.
Speaker 2:But despite that, in a tragedy that happened in her life, where her daughter died, she used all of that heartbreak to turn it around and help women who were in need and where she could have crumbled. In a place where she said you know what? There's a lot, all the odds are stacked against me in this nation and in my trials, and instead she persevered. Like you said, she'd made the decision to say God has more for me and because of her there are so many young women thriving in her Middle Eastern country, finding Jesus, finding hope, finding purpose. Where had she not stepped up and said yes to the Lord? We don't know the stories that would have happened. Where would those women?
Speaker 2:be, but because of her vision and her perseverance in the Lord, leading through that vision, leading into it. You know, lives are different now, absolutely.
Speaker 4:Do you know any?
Speaker 2:stories. Tell us any stories you can think of.
Speaker 4:You know, the first one that comes to my mind is I think we're not saying names, but it's of a woman in Africa who went to jail as she was on her way for one of ILI's events. And I think if I just process, you know, you hear a story, you think what would I do? I'm like I would be so sad and I could not be able to imagine showing up at prison and I would feel defeated. Hopefully there would be a spiritual encounter where or you know strength to be what and do the things that she did. Because what she did was pray. She knew the vision God had for that country she was visiting. She knew that he had put it in her plan to go there and so she prayed, she was able to talk with the people in charge, she led some of the young men there to Christ, got freed the next day, prayed with the people and then went on to the event.
Speaker 4:I'm just like, wow, what faith to just persevere through the night, spending time in prayer, knowing she was going to be successful and just complete the mission God had put before. And that's just one story of her long career of leading in a context that she still faces adversity as a woman in leadership. And so I just found that so encouraging that even in those you know one day trials it's kind of miraculous, you know. Even in those you know one day trials it's kind of miraculous, you know. But yeah, that really inspires me just to hold on to that faith, even when all odds are against you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, another couple of the qualities that I was thinking about with women in the Bible, the characteristics that we see from so many women displayed in the Bible. See from so many women displayed in the Bible One of the things. I think about is working diligently with a servant heart, and women that are devoted to their family, because I like to always in my priority when I think about. I mean, obviously we work here, so we are working mothers.
Speaker 2:We have many, many hats, like most of the women listening to this podcast, and I like to think about priorities in my life, and for me it's my relationship with God first, then my family, then my work. You know, my church, my community, my work all of those things fall in line after my relationship with God and my family.
Speaker 2:And so you know, being consistent with my prayer time, with my devotion time and getting in the word, that's got to be priority for my life, absolutely. And then my devotion to my family, and I don't know if people listening to this, I don't know if they understand how important that is to God, but we see that over and over again and we actually teach that in our material the family is priority Absolutely. So why do you think that's important for women, biblical women to display that characteristic that they're devoted to their family? Oh, many reasons. I'm putting you on the spot.
Speaker 4:I'll say many, many reasons. First of all, what you do at home is replicated. So having that priority is critical because you want your you know, if you've become a Christian and you know that God's vision for families is to represent you know his relationship with us then you want your children to be able to replicate that, moving forward and treat women with respect, honor their mother and father. All those Bible verses we teach our kids, you know that one especially honor your father and mother. But also I think there's some. You know there's qualities and we go over it in our training.
Speaker 4:But I think there's some unspoken benefits of really focus on family priority. Your home can become a safe haven for other people. It can be a beacon of hope. Your children can have such a peace and surrender to God that they can be a minister in their community, in their school and wherever they're working.
Speaker 4:As they're getting older, some of the things that you sacrifice to place God first in your kid's life when they're young, you know, start to come out when they become teenagers and then they move on to lead their homes, which I haven't experienced yet, but I've heard stories of that happening. And so I think that you know that focus on your family really is your group testimony and witness to others around you when you're laughing and happy or how you're overcoming adversity, or how you're loving on people in the community that are experiencing adversity. All of that points back to Christ, and so I think that honoring and placing our family in certain priorities are many benefits, like discipleship and how your home is a place of peace and all those things, but just the absolute ability to honor God and just people see that you know and they get to witness what God is doing because you're placing that priority in their life.
Speaker 2:I was thinking about one of the stories, the women in the bible. That really inspires me and I love talking about the story of deborah which is in judges?
Speaker 2:I don't gosh, I love her I do too, but it's not as as common as, like you know, everyone is Mary, but Deborah was a woman who, um it was, she actually held a really unique place in a time where women were not holding any kind of position of power or viewed that way. God actually blessed Deborah, um, she was a prophet and she was also a judge, and, and so at that time, when Israel, when Israelites really needed someone to rise up, god brought Deborah, and she wasn't just, you know, handing out advice, and she was actually leading, and she's the one that stepped up, when I can easily see her saying I'm going to be met with so much opposition as a woman in this place, saying I'm going to be met with so much opposition as a woman in this place, I'm going to be or I'm going to be not accepted?
Speaker 2:Or what if I am someone when slams the door in my face, so to speak? Instead, she was bold and confident in what God had called her to do, and she's the one that got the vision, the word from God and helped lead the Israelites to defeat the Canaanites. So you know again, look, what God did through a woman saying yes, lord. I will do. I will do what you're calling me to do.
Speaker 2:So um, I just I love leaning into stories like that and thinking okay, I don't have to have a pretty and straight line and have everything to walk through and know that it's going to be accepted. Well, and sometimes it might be scary. Sometimes God might be calling me into something that it's kind of unclear, like will I fail? Or that may be a vision God has put in my life, but I'm on the other side, doubting. You know, these women still stepped into that with boldness and courage and God did not fail them. It's not that they didn't fail, it is that God didn't fail them.
Speaker 2:So I think, as women, when we are faced with this idea, that it is on us we're all about us or what will happen to us and our acceptance, and we just were so internally focused, us and our acceptance, and we just were so internally focused, I think, is when God is calling us to lay down our surrender and say I don't need you to perform, I will perform through you.
Speaker 2:And for any of those women that are listening to this if you're questioning, has God given you a vision, has God given you enough boldness or courage, or all of that, if you're questioning or doubting any of that, the first place to go is is on your knees in prayer and then in the word, because I truly believe when we if you've stumbled upon this podcast, it's not, it's not by by chance. I really do believe that God will put these types of things in our path to hit our knees and to say God, what is it?
Speaker 2:What is it that you're calling me to? That phrase we used earlier to be faithful where you are, wherever God has to be planted. How are you being faithful through that? And if you're listening to this right now and you're feeling that like, okay, god, I hear you then call out to him. He promised to us that he will listen and he will answer, and I firmly believe that God wants women to step up and has something for them that will radically change. Maybe it's just your kids you know what I mean. Maybe that is who God is calling you to radically change. But I promise you other women are watching, other mothers are in your circle. They are.
Speaker 2:Other family members are watching, so we were never in isolation. God is calling you to something, to something.
Speaker 4:I agree, and I might be putting you on the spot with this, but I know personally, I minister with women, I have a women's small group, I know you do as well, and so, as you're talking, it's reminding me of something that is like a reoccurring theme in my group right now, and so maybe there's someone watching that just is seeing defeat and they might need to pause and like remember where God's brought them from, because so often I think that we kind of get, you know, narrow minded.
Speaker 4:We want to be successful, we want to be God honoring, we want our lives to represent him well, and so we're like oh-minded, we want to be successful, we want to be God-honoring, we want our lives to represent Him well, and so we're like oh, what do I need to do better? Oh, lord, help me to stop doing this or that or whatever. And we forget sometimes to look and see where God has brought us from. And this is the part on the spot for you. It's what do you do in those moments where you feel like you're just in this rut and nothing seems to be going the way it needs to be going? How do you find?
Speaker 2:encouragement for yourself in those moments. Well, I've always, I've always walked through women saying don't rush it, because there are times when we, like you said, as we're like, we want to be successful or lead, we want to do everything right. We and especially now with all societal pressures- it's like we better live up to all the expectations.
Speaker 4:And as leaders, everybody's watching, everyone's watching. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so you know I always say don't, don't rush what God's doing. I've walked through times in my life where people said waiting time is not wasted time, that's good. God is never not working. So, whatever it is, if you feel defeated you don't have to rush through that. God is going to use that time, he's going to use that trial, he's going to use that hurt. He's refining in that fire.
Speaker 2:So not saying we just sit and do nothing, but we do allow God and the Holy Spirit to do a work in our heart in that time and know that if we keep remaining faithful to showing, to show up, you know, I used to tell my family remember that was going through a hard time, fake it till you make it, because I promise you, if you keep showing up to church, if you keep showing up to the word, if you keep praying and you're not there yet, but I promise you, like God's word says, it will not return void. And there's something happening in that time where you're feeling defeated or not having a purpose. God is using that time and one day you'll look back and you'll realize okay, now I see now.
Speaker 2:I get it, but it's that something in us that just keeps drawing us back to the Lord. Keep leaning into it, just walk into that every single day.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I think that that kind of going back to what you said about surrender that that's really where leadership is. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:That's really where you see um, like the lady we shared about in prison, um, her first reaction was prayer in the jail cell, you know, because it had become who she was, that intimacy with God. It wasn't foreign and a desperate cry for help, even though she was reaching out to God. But she was just praying for God to to do whatever his will was going to be, that she was there because he had sent her there. And it's so good for you to say just keep going back to what you know is the right thing, god's word being in community. So I appreciate that. You know you sharing that For me.
Speaker 4:I think you know we can be so busy as women because we have so much to do. We're like the CEO, chef, taxi, depending on what stage of life you're in, calendar organizer, you know all those things, assistant, and so it can be a struggle to really keep that morning whenever the time is for people Bible time, prayer time and it reminds me of Susanna Wesley who dedicated two hours every day to prayer and God's word, and her kids knew if her apron was over her head that she was in prayer and not to bother her and who are her kids, john and Charles Wesley.
Speaker 4:She's literally known as the mother of Methodism.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so you think those prayers weren't doing something.
Speaker 4:Exactly. I mean, she's been gone along over 300 years, I think, and she's still making impacts today in people in that denomination's faith, the ripple effect.
Speaker 2:The ripple effect Absolutely.
Speaker 4:And I think her discipline and her priorities were instilled in her children and then they lived out the same discipline and priorities. And so you know, for someone that might be struggling with priorities again, I'm putting you on the spot now. I've done it twice. I love it. Um, what are some ways that you've you've kept that a priority in your life?
Speaker 2:Well, honestly, I'm going to, I'm going to be completely honest.
Speaker 2:There's, there was a struggle and when my kids were little, when I had the baby and the toddler phase, and mine are two years apart and it was still working and it was very high demand for me and my and what I needed to be for everyone. And I put a lot of pressure on myself and we do as moms and as work. Wherever you are in life, we tend to put pressure on ourselves to live up to some expectation. And I remember those first couple of years just craving what I used to have, which was I would get up in the morning and do my devotion, I would pull my devotion out the Bible, I'd have my notes, I'd have my coffee and just I could spend as much time as I wanted, and it was so great and God would just use that time and it was so sweet. And and then the babies came and that time was gone immediately and babies came and my time was gone immediately.
Speaker 2:Um, and and I, I craved it so much and I and I felt such guilt for a while, feeling like my prior. I couldn't get my priorities in order, um, until God just really kind of brought me to a place of surrendering that desire. He, I was craving something for myself and it needed to look like what I needed it to look like, even though it was a holy God thing. Yeah, god finally brought me to the place to say it may not look like what you think it's going to look like.
Speaker 2:And so now, prioritizing that time, you know when it's, as soon as my feet hit the ground in the morning, it's go a hundred miles an hour, get the kids ready for school and all the things, get ready for work. And so now my, my time looks different. I'm listening to a podcast, I'm listening to the Bible on my in my ear constantly. You know I get to work and I take the first 10 minutes to read a devotion, and so it looks different. But it's okay to surrender that in the priority. You think it's supposed to look one way.
Speaker 2:It's okay to surrender that to God and say okay, god, in this season, what does that look like? How do I prioritize you? My priorities might look differently. How it goes throughout the day might look a little different than yours but my season of life is different than yours, right, and so God can use that. Yes, and it's leaning into that surrender, again just saying God, what God? What do I prioritize? You show me. You show me, god, how do I prioritize?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I love that and you know, it makes me think of some of those stories we never can share because they're from persecuted nations. But the men and women actually that prioritize every step they take throughout the day and surrender it to God in a place where they could, that could be their last day, it could be the day that they don't survive because of their faith, and then taking those steps to prioritize everything that they do throughout the day, and for them it's not necessarily their morning time and the things that we do struggle with, but for them it's what seat am I sitting on on the bus, you know? Am I supposed to talk to the cashier today, checking me out and really being in tune with whatever God's will for every moment of their day is? And so I love that. You said it doesn't look like the same thing in every season. That is so beautiful. Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:And I think one of the things that's also at this stage of life is realize that having connection and community is with other women is so important, and I've seen God bring different women in and women in my life because that encouragement with one another, that spurring me on, that accountability with one another they can call me out if they see me struggling that can change a woman's life. Yes, it can. So if you are struggling in a place where you don't feel like a leader or don't feel like God's calling you to a vision, I would ask and challenge to pray about that. To bring somebody into your life that would allow you to see things differently, because God is faithful. I've seen it over and over again in my life where he brings people into my life, other women, in the season that I'm in and then what the need is for that season, and those people will show me how to love Jesus better.
Speaker 2:They'll show me how to pursue him better. They'll show me how to pursue him better. They'll show me how to live selflessly. And I think, when we go it alone, as moms, as women, as working women, I think that's where we fail the most, because God has called us to live in circles. Yes, I really believe that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and as you're saying that I agree, I think of the story of Mary Jesus's mom and she didn't have to stand at the cross alone and watch something so brutal happen to her son. I mean, she knew it was going to happen, she knew he was the savior of the world. But I think, knowing something and watching it and being helpless to save your child, I just assume kind of that she probably had those motherly instincts because she's human, so how could she not? But she had women surrounding her the entire time that she had to go through that experience, and whether it's women celebrating with you or walking through trials with you, you're right, it's extremely important to have that kind of a community. And just to encourage you, if you don't have that community, don't stop seeking it, don't stop praying for it. You know it takes time sometimes to find the right people. It's okay if certain people aren't your people, it's just we're all created that way, so but it is important to have that circle of leaders with you, I think yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that we could sit here and talk all day.
Speaker 2:We could talk all day about this, because Shannon and I get really passionate about this, because God has given us a platform here where we work and we feel so grateful that we get to be a part of women all over the world and honestly plug in to any international opportunities you can, because I think that's one of the most eye eyeopening things is to see what other women are faced with on the daily in their country and in their circumstances. So plug in and I mean this podcast is a great resource because we talk about a lot of that and we have a lot of guests that are are facing different trials and circumstances.
Speaker 2:So I think that brings us back to reality sometimes and we hope that you have found some encouragement today on this episode and we really pray that you take time to seek the Lord for what it is that he wants you to do with your life as a woman in ministry, where you are being faithful with where you are planted. We'll catch you next time.