ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
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ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
Ep. 60 | Standing in the Father Gap
Why Godly Fathers Matter More Than Ever
In today’s world, anxiety, depression, and identity confusion are on the rise, and children growing up without fathers are among the most deeply affected. As we approach Father’s Day, we explore one of the most overlooked root causes of today’s mental health crisis: the absence of a loving, present father.
This episode reveals the profound and lasting impact of fatherlessness, from academic and emotional struggles to future relationships and generational cycles of pain. Girls without fathers often face higher rates of teen pregnancy, while boys tend to struggle with discipline and identity. But amid the brokenness, there's real hope.
Jesus consistently referred to God as "Abba"—Daddy—a tender and intimate expression of fatherhood that invites us into deep security, identity, and belonging. Scripture speaks often of God's heart for orphans and widows—those without fathers—as a model for how the Church should respond.
You’ll hear:
- The statistics that reveal how vital fatherhood is to a child’s emotional and spiritual well-being
- How Christian leadership and family values can disrupt the mental health crisis
- Biblical wisdom on fatherhood, identity, and legacy
- Stories of how church communities step in to become surrogate families
- Practical guidance for leaders, mentors, and fathers on how to “stand in the gap”
Join us as we unpack this vital topic and discover how caring men can demonstrate Christ's love by stepping into the father gap, becoming living examples of our Heavenly Father's perfect love.
When you begin ILI training, you will discover how the Eight Core Values will lead to the Seven Outcomes in your life and the lives of those you lead. Join a community of leaders who are ready to change history and make an impact in this world. Discover more at ILITeam.org/connect.
You know, in today's world there's so much conversation around anxiety and depression, but some interesting statistics are out about the impact of fathers on their children and how fathers can actually play a huge role in the midst of that Norval. We know that family is such an important element to Christian leadership.
Speaker 2:It is. It is one of our eight core values, and we state that God looks for men and women who believe that the family is the building block of society and who make their family a priority, and that includes fathers. And, as the absence of fathers has consequences, the presence of fathers and good fathers who model like after Jesus is such a great example.
Speaker 1:Amen. So let's have a great conversation today around the impact of fathers in our homes, our families and our life in leadership. So, Norval, I know you were doing a little bit of research recently just around a topic that kind of fits where we are on the calendar. Do you want to share that with us a little and maybe we can have a conversation around it?
Speaker 2:Yes, I went and I asked myself the question what social issues or developmental issues that are affected by the lack of a father at home? We're approaching Father's Day, we celebrate fatherhood, but at the same time, fatherhood's been under attack a little bit, manhood's been under attack a little bit, sure, and there is the reality of so many children that have to grow up without a father for whatever reason abandonment, death, migration and so I've started looking around. What will this do? I had heard that it had an influence on some psychological, behavioral, but what I found out, daniel, is that pretty much everything, or several different of these different social measures, if you will, were affected by the lack of a father.
Speaker 2:So children that grew up without a father performed less in school, academically, cognitively, there was a higher incidence of depression, anxiety and other psychological or mental issues. Emotional issues the lack of a father became an indicative of the propensity to crime and behavioral issues. Violence, wow, in girls. Earlier sexual start and teen pregnancies, wow, which kind of perpetuated becomes a vicious cycle. So it surprised me to see that it's not one, but many of these different factors, many of these different indicators.
Speaker 1:Well, and anytime you find a whole grouping of things that you want to change, you want to impact, you want to see transformation in, and you find a common element to all of them.
Speaker 1:It kind of throws up this red flag, right, and you know, we believe that Christian leadership is, you know, one of the elements of effective Christian leadership is going to be a firm practice of family priority, and that's why I think it's such an important topic for us to talk through with Christian leaders today is to say what does some of those elements of effective fatherhood look like? Right, you're a father, you're a grandfather, you're in a different phase of fatherhood. I'm a father, I'm not yet a grandfather, but a different phase of fatherhood and then we were both sons, and so we have experienced our own relationships with our fathers. And so, man, I just think that's such an important lesson. Maybe there's some stories there and some elements there that we can look at together. And then we can even look at what are the contexts when there isn't a father and how God really designed the body of Christ to rally around and to fill some of those gaps, and I know that's certainly some of my story of how God did that and continues to do that in relationships.
Speaker 2:Well, daniel, let's set the stage for that conversation. We may not go there right now, but I am a firstborn. When I was born born, my father was probably 23, 24 years old max, so very young. He married young a few years later. Uh, that he and my mom.
Speaker 2:My mom had me, you know that's usually my mom that had me, but, um, um and I have had a very interesting relationship with my dad. He was a strong, stern father, but very loving Later. So I grew up as his son. Later he became my boss and we worked together oh, wow, we were missionaries together, okay. And then I cared for him not directly, but I helped to care for him. In his older age he had Parkinson's disease, ended up developing dementia, passed away in 2020 at the age of 86 years old. So I've had a long relationship with him. You, on the other hand, lost your father, so some of these stories could have been your story because you lost your father, so some of these stories could have been your story because you lost your father.
Speaker 1:I did. I lost my father when I was 11. So my father when I was four. He had a heart attack, damaged his heart. He lived for several years after that, but then he ended up passing away when I was 11. And so that next year I've got one older brother, but that next year my older brother went off to college, and so from 12 to well, I guess, I moved out at 21,. From 12 to 21, it was me living at home with my mother who had multiple sclerosis, and so it's a very different structure and upbringing there. But to see how, even in the light of that and in the midst of that, God was just so incredibly faithful to place men in my life, that helps to be a practical representation of Christlike leadership. And what does it mean to be a godly man in society and in the community?
Speaker 2:Well, we're going to put a pin on that one, yeah for sure, and we're going to come back to it later. Because why fathers? What is it about fathers that makes a difference. That's not to say we don't need a mom. Oh yeah, oh my gosh. Of course you know I wouldn't be who I am if it wasn't for my mom, but there is something about fatherhood. Yeah, that is that. Like I said, research shows when it's lacking, yeah, there's all of these consequences that may happen.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think you know, I think, of our dear brother Hudu Safandeh, and Hudu is always careful, when he describes God, to call him father, right To reference and to acknowledge that self-ascribed title that God chose to give to himself as father. And I think really that's where some of that root is, is, I think, there's some acknowledgement and reminisce or remember or recall their experiences with me, the way I am a father, and so there's, I think, a high calling to that and a high expectation of that that forms the way we interact with our fathers. And I do think, you know, as God designed the family as a whole, he designed it, uh, with fathers and mothers, uh, living in in in a, in a structure. Right, we, we teach, right, the family is the building block of society, um, and the consequence of that is when you see that structure break, when you see some of those elements uh, lacking or missing, it carries a long, a long-term consequence. And so, like any building, if that foundation, if those building blocks themselves are weak, or if they are structurally unsound, or if they simply have cracks and brokenness in them, then what's going to happen is you're going to start to see those buildings crumble, that structure crumble.
Speaker 1:And likewise, you know, I think you're right, I think the consequences of an absent father, or a father who has passed, or migration, or whatever has caused that father's absence, it does, it carries ramifications because it's an essential element, right? I often think of the phrase irreducible complexity, right, and how. There's no way for the family to be without those core elements being in place. And so, when that happens, what transpires? What are the consequences of that transformation or change?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I keep going back to the Scripture and we talked this morning. It isn't by chance that God or that Jesus addresses God as father. That's right. The Old Testament shows us images of God as a father, also as a mother. So there are these two messages, but the Bible is very clear and Jesus was very clear. Yeah, yeah, to use the Jewish term, jesus never called God Ima, he called always Abba. Ima is the way the Jews call their mom. They're like Mama and Daddy is Abba, and Jesus referred to God as Daddy, which was not unheard of in Jewish religion and faith. But it was surprising we always say this that when we teach our courses, we say God by calling, when we talk about intimacy with God by calling God Abba. Jesus was picturing that image, that relationship that we will have with our fathers, and one of the interesting things you hear a lot from children is even children that had somewhat absent fathers or even who had very imperfect fathers.
Speaker 2:A lot of these kids will live their entire lives trying to live up to their daddy's expectation yeah um, for good or for bad, you know that's, that's, that's who we are, we, we, we grow up trying to be like daddy. You know, I've, I've.
Speaker 2:I look physically like my father, to the point that everybody recognized me on the street you know in and I have stories after story after story that people look at me and said you're the son of Dr Norival Trindade, aren't you? And, and and that that was a sense of pride for me, but also that now that I am, that I am a mature man, people compare me to my father, and that's a source of pride, and if people can compare me to my heavenly father somehow, Well, I think there is right.
Speaker 1:I was sitting at a table with a young couple at church recently and they have a brand new baby boy, silas, and Silas is, I don't know, maybe six months old, kind of thing. And my wife was sitting next to me and she was holding Silas at the moment and she goes oh my goodness, he has your eyes and pointed to the mom and we all just kind of started talking about that. That's a common thing, right To look at a child and to see the reflection of the parents in the face of the child, and I do.
Speaker 1:I think there's some degree to which, as we are made in the image of God and as men, as fathers, there's a degree to which, yeah, we long to reflect back that the goodness and the grace and the man, the just character, the righteousness, the integrity, the steadfastness, the protection, the resilience of a good and gracious Father in heaven who is our Father and our source of those things. And so, gosh, I think you're right. I think there's such a desire in the heart of believing brothers that yearn for that, and you know, I would say you know, for myself and for others that desire can be a good desire. It can also be used to lead us down paths where we feel perpetually inadequate or perpetually, you know, unsatisfying or unable to the task, causing fear or causing frustration or anxiety. But I don't think that's what our Father wants for us. I think he wants us to rest in him as he produces those fruit out of us.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I guess that points out. Maybe that's what's missing in the children that grow up that unfortunately have to grow up without a father and don't have any kind of surrogate. We're going to talk a little about that later, but maybe that's what's going on Without a proper model of what it means to be not only a man but a person of integrity of character, because the lack of fathers affect daughters as well.
Speaker 2:It's not only sons, and so maybe that's what's missing. What's missing in these, in these, is that model of god as the father that will give them the stability, the security, um, and and the, the, the, the peace of. You know, I got somebody looking out for me, I'm spoken for, yeah, you know, but the question is, how do we solve that problem? So, if that's the problem, what can be done? And I believe the church is in a very unique position to help. Yeah, we're not going to solve it because it can't be everywhere.
Speaker 1:Right, and there are absolutely consequences and results of sin and brokenness in the world, right, and that's, you know, the totality of those aren't on, uh, on this side of of of, uh, you know, uh, christ's return, we, we, we won't see the full redemption of all of those elements, but yet God is redeeming in the midst of those things and, and you know, I can certainly stand as one who testifies to how God used, uh, the church, uh, in my life, to, to bring those to be again to your words, surrogate fathers, right, I mean, when my father passed, my family wasn't really attending church. We were maybe at Christmas and Easter. I didn't have a strong relationship. I didn't have a relationship with God. I didn't have a real strong relationship with a whole bunch of other, uh, um, you know, men in my life it was, it was really just my, my dad, and that was a, that was a, that was a transformational community for us.
Speaker 1:And you know it was about a year after my father passed that I ended up coming to faith and when I, you know, shortly after that, I began to see and understand and even use this language, I'd say, look, I lost an earthly father but I gained a heavenly one, and to see that exchange and to try and see okay, god, how do you describe yourself when you describe father? But then it was really just the blessing of you know, we see in Titus this idea of older individuals discipling younger individuals and, and particularly you know, older men with younger men and older women with younger women. And God began to do that in my own life. Right, it was. It was our pastor who invited us over, my mother and I, for different traditional events. Here in the States we celebrate Thanksgiving in November, or we celebrate the Fourth of July as a national holiday, and we would celebrate them with that family so that Pastor David could encourage and support us.
Speaker 2:Well, that's significant because Thanksgiving is essentially a family holiday. That's right and same thing here. My wife and I are just the two of us in the US, so we don't have that bigger family to celebrate Thanksgiving. But the few times that we were in the States a lot of times we're traveling we were invited into somebody's family.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So in a way, this pastor invited you into his family and I think you know I don't know this right.
Speaker 1:He's since gone to be with the Lord and I'm obviously in an older spot now than I was when I was, you know, 14 at his house. But I don't think he did that accidentally. I think he knew my mother was a widow in the church. She was a young widow. My father died when he was only 39. My mother, I don't think she'd even turned 40 yet, and so you know they were young when he passed.
Speaker 1:And I think our pastor did that with intentionality. He knew this is a way to love this woman as she seeks to raise her two boys. You know one now in college. Like that was an intentional act that he took. And then you know there was other individuals that got insured right. I mean, there were moments where the deacons, the elders of our church I remember them inviting me and coming alongside me to say, hey, you know, I'm going to give you an opportunity to learn about work and provision for your home and for your family and for yourself. And maybe they wouldn't have even used it in such language, but they gave me opportunities to do some yard work or to serve others in my church.
Speaker 1:I'll never forget there was a lady in our church who was in her mid to late 80s.
Speaker 1:She had grown up during the historical period called the Great Depression, and so she had grown up knowing and learning about gardening and all those kinds of things. And so she's in her 80s still with a garden that was an acre size, which is a pretty substantial plot of land, but she couldn't maintain the things, but she couldn't do the grunt work at the beginning and at the end. And so it was because one of the elders at the church that I was invited to come and to serve her as a young man, 16, 17 years old and getting to spend time with her and learn what it is to serve people in my church and in my community, particularly shut-ins and things like that. And so all of that was again. I think it was the combination of godly men that God had placed in my church to disciple me intentionally, and maybe they didn't even know that they were all doing it right. It wasn't like some church program, but I think it was just godly men listening to the Holy Spirit tell them you need to pour into this young man.
Speaker 2:They were just being men. Yeah, to the Holy Spirit, tell them you need to pour into this young man. They were just being men. Yeah, they were just being men. And that's what men do, men. You know what fathers do? They take their kids fishing, they go to baseball games, they play ball or football, soccer, whatever it is that they do with their sons and daughters. That's what these men were doing to you.
Speaker 2:That's what these men were doing to you. So, daniel, that brings to my mind something very interesting that I found in the research there is a difference between the results of fatherless, of growing up without a father, in the Western context than in what we call the global South. Okay, latin America, asia, africa, sub-saharan Africa, and particularly in Africa, sub-saharan Africa Okay, we've always heard the saying it takes a village to raise a child. It's an African, it's actually an African proverb. What happens in Africa is and much of the world and much of throughout history, the nuclear family mom, dad and two and a half kids is a Western construct.
Speaker 1:Probably even a recent Western construct.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is a recent, it's actually. I read an article talking about that. It was a marketing idea, so to speak, that the industry in the Industrial Revolution, they needed to sell goods to more people and if households had less people, people in a household with 20 people increase the number of households you only need one refrigerator.
Speaker 2:That's right. Yeah, if they're all live. If, if these 20 people are living in four different houses, yeah, they'll need four refrigerators. Yeah, I don't know how much of that is true, but the fact is, um in in our world, you know, my family is my wife and I, our two kids, maybe our four grandkids. But historically and even today, in many parts of the world, particularly in Africa, the family is the extended family. It's the uncles and the aunts and the cousins and the great uncles and you, you know distant cousins. And in af in, in rural africa, the village actually does. If you go to an african village today and you see a child misbehave, you will see a total uh, not a stranger, because they're all in the same village, but you see the father of another household come and-.
Speaker 1:Have something to say.
Speaker 2:Well, more than something to say, they'll actually give them a little tap in the butt, or something, something. Because it takes a village is not just a concept or something.
Speaker 1:It's not just an idea, it's a practice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not just an idea, it's actually a reality. The village raises the children, and so what happened was the research shows the lack of fathers still causes problems in adult life, but it is much less in that context than it is in the West, because there is a natural net around the child of uncles, aunts and neighbors and friends, and now that is. I haven't found any research about the church, but the church is an extended family. Oh yeah, that's what happened to you, the reason you are where you are and you're not Somewhere else, somewhere else. Now I've learned a few things about you, daniel. You were like. You bought a book about how to be a man when you were like 13 years old. I did.
Speaker 1:Norval, I bought a book.
Speaker 1:The title was something to the effect of how to Be a man in 178 Pages or Less. It was, you know, meant to be somewhat comical but addressed just the, you know, primary points of, and to serve as a discipleship tool for a young man growing into adult manhood and maturity. And as someone who I was acutely aware that my father was absent, right, I mean, I was very aware of that and so I was seeking and pursuing to do that. Well, I didn't want to do that haphazardly, I wanted to do that with some intentionality, but I can attest to the impact that, again, the church had.
Speaker 1:You know, I don't think anyone, in fact I don't think anyone in my church had ever been to Africa or maybe had even heard that proverb. Perhaps they had. But what I witnessed, and as I reflect, was the Spirit of God working in the community of faith that I was in to ensure that what I needed as a believer to grow, what I needed as a young man to grow to maturity, was being provided, was being built around, and that was through the faithful practice of individuals in the church seeking to make a disciple out of me.
Speaker 2:That's why we were not made to live alone and we were not designed by God to live in nuclear families. The truth is that we were designed to live in a more extended. Actually, daniel, you're talking about it, was you know why? It wasn't intentional that these men played this important role model for your development, that these men played this important role model for your development? But yes, it was because what do we call you know? I've heard it called the trifecta of the biblical calling, or something like that the widow, the orphan and the stranger, that's right. And the immigrant, the widow, the orphan. Why that special emphasis of throughout Scripture on the widow and the orphan? Well, that's because the widow and the orphan need that community which will provide the father that the child needs to develop man.
Speaker 1:That's such a good point. And again, I think God, in his goodness and his grace, he understood and knew that in the fall there would be consequences and that he would need to help his children, his beloved, to understand how to adapt to that reality and the consequences of those things. And God is constantly working to redeem that. And you know, as we look and as we think about again, seeing the impact and the role of fathers, really you know, my primary thought here, norval, is to say to myself, to you, to the other leaders who are listening, to see, to identify, to pray, to seek, as the scriptures tell us, the widow, the orphan, and to seek how to love and care for those individuals, because normal.
Speaker 1:It was people in my church who did that for me. Right, it was Bill Jeffrey, sitting with me in the sound booth at the back of the church, just being a consistent, christ-like man, demonstrating character and integrity. It was my youth pastor growing up, jerry Ader. He performed our wedding, spending extra time with me, and God didn't stop just there, right, I went to college. Later I had a professor, dr Aaron Warner, and Dr Warner poured into my life. I mean spent hours upon hours sitting and talking through rich subject of theology and philosophy and apologetics and wrestling down some big questions to help form cogent, consistent thinking in my mind and gosh even to the point of my father-in-law.
Speaker 1:My father-in-law was my Sunday school teacher in church in my high school years, in my later teenage years and obviously he's my father-in-law so he still plays an important role in my life for sure. But I think that's the as I know. What do we want? To help a leader understand today? It's to understand that as a leader, as a Christian leader, we have to have eyes to see the orphan, the widow, those who are fatherless, and to understand our role in helping practice family priority personally, but also helping to see they have a need for that. You're right. My pastor invited my family into his family's event. It was an intentional be a part and I felt a part of that family in the midst of that, and that was.
Speaker 1:it was a salve. Maybe it wasn't a substitute, but it was a salve. It was something that soothed that longing and that loss and provided a means through which God's grace was extended further to me and helped to form me more deeply, amen.
Speaker 2:So to me the call is are there young men or women in the church, in my church community around me that don't have? I'm sure there are. I can think of half a dozen in my church community, and my church community is small that I can speak into their lives and be that influence, be that mentor to those children, even in isolated contacts, but even more than that, intentionally inviting them into my family, making sure that they grow up with and then, of course, being like Jesus to them. That's right, so that they will grow up with that concept or support or surrogate of a father, whatever happened to their fathers. We as the church, we as men in the church, and there are a lot of things that I do right because my wife reminds me to Amen. So to all the wives listening, give your husband a little nudge.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure, well, and know that that has such value, that that has such encouragement. Listening, give her husband a little nudge. Yeah for sure, well, and know that that has such value, that that has such encouragement. And, norval, I think when the church steps into that space, as God calls us to, we're going to continue to see transformational impact, absolutely. There's so many ways that this plays a role, and so, of all days, of all weeks, as we think about Father's Day, we celebrate the incredible fathers and let's praise God that he's a good and gracious father and that he calls us to lead and live in that very intentional, open-handed way to say, okay, god, who are these others that you would have me to step in? It doesn't have to be permanent. It doesn't have to say, okay, god, who are these others that you would have me to step in? It doesn't have to be permanent, it doesn't have to be, again, a substitute, but there are countless people I can testify to that played those roles along my life.
Speaker 2:Yes, so let's pray that daddy will make us good daddies, that's right. That's right and good role models for young men and women out there. Amen, amen.