ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
Explore the transformative journey that is leadership. In each episode, we will dive deep into strategies, stories, insights, and the core values that shape and inspire effective Christian leaders who make an impact - all around the globe. Get ready to unlock your leadership potential.
When leaders are equipped, kingdom impact multiplies. Equipping leaders and spreading the Gospel. Let’s change history together!
This podcast is brought to you by the International Leadership Institute.
ILI: History Makers Leadership Podcast
Ep. 72 | God at Work in Europe: Evangelism & Leadership
What does street evangelism look like in post-Christian Europe—and how can one person’s vision spark a movement across nations? 🌍
In this inspiring episode of the History Makers Leadership Podcast, Norival Trindade talks with Martin Durham, Director of K180 and ILI’s International Director for Europe. Martin shares his journey from banking professional to street evangelist, beginning with a terrifying moment preaching in London’s busy Leicester Square. That experience lit a fire that grew into a ministry dedicated to evangelism and leadership development across Europe.
Hear how God expanded Martin’s vision from “England on fire with the gospel” to “Europe ablaze with the gospel”—and how that vision has guided K180 for decades. Far from “hellfire and brimstone,” their creative approach uses music, testimonies, and short engaging messages to start real conversations.
They dive into:
- The power of evangelism in today’s culture
- How God is moving across Europe, especially among Gen Z
- Why discipleship—not just conversion—is the critical issue for the church
- Stories of unexpected encounters that turned hecklers into seekers
With just 2% of Europe identifying as Bible-believing Christians, the challenges are great—but so are the opportunities. As Martin reminds us: “The power is in the gospel. He’s the one who changes lives.”
Join us for this compelling discussion about evangelism, leadership, and what it means to keep ministry simple in an increasingly complex world. As Martin reminds us: "The power is in the gospel. He's the one who changes lives."
Join a community of leaders who are ready to change history and make an impact in this world. When you take part in ILI training, you will discover how ILI's Eight Core Values will help you transform your leadership. Discover more at ILITeam.org/connect.
Well, welcome to the HistoryMakers Leadership Podcast. Nourie Valtrendaji here, ILI's Vice President for Training. Today we have a different setup because we are having a conversation with Martin Durham. He is the Director of K180, a ministry dedicated to evangelism and leadership training in the UK and in different parts of the world, and Martin is ILI's international director for the continent of Europe, and today we want to have a conversation on leadership, evangelism and amazing things that God has been doing in Europe through the ministry that he helps to lead. Martin, how are you doing?
Speaker 2:Doing well. Great to be here, Norval. Yes, a big hello from an unusually sunny London.
Speaker 1:Well, you should be out there enjoying the sun, because it's a little bit rare, isn't it? Yeah Well, martin, tell us a little bit about yourself. Where do you come from, did you grow up Christian, and how did you end up becoming a street evangelist?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good question. And I grew up just outside of London, about 50 miles north of London, from a good family, but not a family you would describe as Christian, and I ended up being part of a youth group that was connected to a church. Really interesting, because I never remember hearing anything about Jesus at this youth group, even though it was connected to a church. Really interesting, because I never remember hearing anything about Jesus at this youth group, even though it was connected to a church. But it was through the leaders of that youth group who invited me to what they called an activity week, which turned out to be a Christian activity week, where I first came under the sound of the gospel and there was one, one young man particularly, who would share his faith with me. And after a couple of years of being involved with that youth group and, uh, knowing this guy, I made a decision to to follow christ, and that the first one, uh, in my immediate family anyway, to make that decision. And I soon moved into London because the guy who led me to Christ belonged to a church in London, so it was about 50 miles away and I started to travel there every weekend to attend that church and I'm grateful grateful to god as I look back for that friendship, because I I don't think, well, I'm not sure where I would be today if I hadn't started attending that church, because I knew no believers in the area where I lived and um, but there I was discipled and um, yeah, and as I was discipled I had this growing desire to share the gospel, growing desire to tell others about Jesus, and couldn't quite kind of work out what that looks like, except I had this desire.
Speaker 2:And then one day we're in church and we had the visit of a street preacher from America. He was just passing through, wasn't meant to be at our church and but he invited some of us out on the street, said let's go on the street, let's preach the gospel. And I thought this is fascinating. You know, I'd never heard of this before. Really, I'd never seen a street preacher before this before. Really I'd never seen a street preacher before.
Speaker 2:So we went to um, probably the busiest place or one of the busiest places in central london, leicester square set up a box and he stood on this box and started to preach. It's a really busy area and people would gather around and start asking questions and I was trying to look like I was doing something, like I was, you know, talking to people, and I remember standing at a distance and I stopped these two young men who were walking through Leicester Square and it soon turned out. Very, very quickly I realized they were Christians, which is wonderful because we started talking about football at that point and all sorts of other things. But from a distance it looked like I was talking about Jesus, it looked like I was witnessing, and I remember talking to them and as I'm talking to them over their shoulder, I could see the street preacher had stopped and was starting to walk towards us and I thought, oh, I'm going to be found out now that I'm not talking about Jesus. And he came over and I introduced these two guys. I said, oh, these two young guys passing through Leicester Square, but they're Christians, fantastic. And the preacher said that's amazing. He turned to those two guys and said it's great that you're Christians. Why don't you take it in turns to stand on the box and give your story?
Speaker 2:And remember Leicester Square, loads of people. And you saw the colour drain from their faces at this store and they started to make excuses. I remember once I got a train to catch. Maybe next time we're in London we'll do it. And the preacher said look, don't worry, I tell you what Martin will do it. And the preacher said look, don't worry, I tell you what Martin will do it first and then you could do it.
Speaker 2:And my heart sank because I felt like I couldn't say no. And I had this long walk to this box in the corner of Leicester Square. There were people around the box waiting for someone to stand on it and all I remember is I stood on this box and I honestly I can't remember what I said, but what I do remember very clearly was God ignited a fire within me, really something ignited in that moment and from that point I had to go out and talk to people about Jesus, not always standing on a box, but really from the next week, out on the local streets, trying to engage people and talk to them. And that was the starting point for me and I was thankful for that little push, that little nudge to, and I wouldn't have done it otherwise. And it was God who ignited that fire. Yeah, changed.
Speaker 1:It was one of those defining moments that really changed the course of the ministry that God was causing to bring you to faith and then to put on the spot like that. It's probably how many a preacher got started right by being put on the spot and made to preach and then all of a sudden they realize sharing the gospel is the best thing ever. But from standing up on a soapbox, if you will, to preach to leading an organization that trains people to do that in the middle of this, your life intersects with ILI, and I remember 2002, we were both a lot younger, a lot younger.
Speaker 1:My beard was a little gray, but not quite yet, and you probably had more hair back then than you have right now. And we met not very far from where we are and you participated in the second ever international ILI training and one of the things, one of my memories from that, is the promo video that we put out where you give your testimony talking about how and I can still hear you saying that mobilization had hit the nail in the head for you as a leader and you learned about mobilization at that time. So since then you have been very much involved with ILI. Give us a little bit about how that helped you or how that changed your life.
Speaker 2:Well, there's absolutely no question that the Lord used that time to not just solidify. It was a catalystic moment for me Leading up to that point, that international conference. It was like I had jigsaw pieces in a jigsaw box but no clear picture. I had a sense of what God was saying to me about a desire to preach the gospel. I had a sense because part of the testimony of our call is that my wife and I spent some time away on a prayer retreat and God spoke to our hearts about leaving my banking career and that he would open the doors of Europe as part of the ministry that we would be involved with. We knew no one in Europe really at that time no one at all. It just seemed crazy, but we remember journaling it, writing it down. And then I had this invitation to come to the US and be part of that international conference and it was a fantastic two weeks. I mean I really soaked up all the teaching that was there and things like the mobilization, but so many other things. And one of the things that really impacted me was the whole teaching on vision, teaching on vision and what I remember most clearly and it was a milestone in my life where we had the teaching on vision, and then we were given three hours just to go and be alone with God, just to seek him about vision. And there I am with kind of this picture of these jigsaw pieces in a jigsaw box, and I remember vividly I was sitting on the veranda looking out into the woods and I was just praying and asking God. I had a piece of paper next to me with a pen, and as I was looking out in the trees and I could remember some of the things that had happened in my journey so far, and I remember writing down England on fire with the gospel. And at that point, though, it was like God said to me, not audibly, but it was so clear no, martin, look higher. And because I was looking at the trees and so I looked up to the tree tops, I was looking at the trees and so I looked up to the tree tops, and I just remember, literally, I just got my pen crossed out England and put Europe crossed out on fire and put a blaze Europe, a blaze of the gospel. And honestly, at that moment it was like it just dovetailed in my heart. I knew, I knew this was the picture of God's preferable future that he was giving to me.
Speaker 2:At that point, the ministry of K180 had not been born, I had recently left the bank, but at that point I was given a very, very clear vision of what God wanted for my life to work towards. Again, that picture of his preferable future. I didn't know what it looked like, but I did know that it looked like fires starting all over Europe little fires, that's what it looked like. So it was such a significant moment for me that teaching on vision. So it was such a significant moment for me that teaching on vision. That's why I was absolutely captured by the vision of ILI and history makers. That's why it's still part of my life today, because even today, all over Europe, we see it God using this training to transform lives and really accelerate the gospel. Because I saw it in my own life and I see it in others today. So it was a very, very significant moment in my journey.
Speaker 1:Wow, that is amazing. So K180, I remember, as a curious side note, you had another name that you had to change because it was a little confusing, something to do with a certain spy agency around the world. But K180 was born out of that vision and today you do more than just go out in the streets and preach. But before we go into—I want you to tell us a little bit of what K180 does today. But before that, describe to me what a street evangelism, say afternoon, looks like. What is your strategy? What is it how you do? Because a lot of people I've seen street evangelists everywhere, and some of them are hellfire and brimstone, fiery preachers that are shouting at people, usually with a megaphone or a microphone, with one of those portable amplifiers. That's really more annoying than anything else, not to mention that they speak a Christianese language that most people don't understand. So before people think you're one of them, describe to us what does it look like when you go out and you do what you call street evangelism.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it was a very compelling call for me to go onto the streets and meet people where they are, on their turf, so to speak, and for us what it looks like today. Well, we always take context into account, of course, depending on where we are, but let's take London, for example. So every week we're out on the streets in London, lots of people, and we will set up, we'll have the box, still, we'll have some music, and when I say music, someone will play guitar or something and sing just one song. We'll have someone give open air testimony for two minutes. What has Jesus done for them that no one else could do? And then we'll preach for five minutes.
Speaker 2:But the preaching and the testimony and the music. The question we're always asking ourselves is how do we engage the people in front of us? What are they thinking when they're coming home on the train? What's on their mind? What's on the news today, what's happening in culture that people are thinking about? Because we really want to engage.
Speaker 2:So even with our preaching, we use illustration. So we'll use sometimes a newspaper headline. Or I've got a big inflatable globe that I use and, for example, I would start there by saying big inflatable globe and I was saying you know, the world's a beautiful place, so many beautiful things, but there's also a lot of pain, and I use examples of war and death. So I asked the question so how can it be then that God says he loves the world and then just for a few minutes share the gospel? You know why.
Speaker 2:We believe the scripture is true that God loves the world, and so we have people stopping. They're caught by the illustration. We keep it short and really the fruit comes in the conversation afterwards. The preaching is really scattering the seed, just throwing the seed out, but you have a team on the ground as soon as we finished they'll talk to people who have stopped. And I can honestly say in all these years 1996 is when we started on the street and I can honestly say every single outreach that we've done there's always been gospel conversations where we have been able to share the gospel to people who are listening. There is a hunger out there and I think if we try and engage people, then there is. I mean there's a lot of apathy. I mean there's a lot of apathy, but there are always people ready to talk. So that's how we approach it Creative, passionate, biblical and hopefully a way that's very engaging and draws people in.
Speaker 1:It's interesting, as you said, apathy the majority of the people actually walk by as if you're invisible and don't produce any sound, but the ones who hear and engage. I love it how you started, you don't? You started this by not saying we go out to preach, but we go out to meet people. Yeah, and that's to me, that's that's the secret. You were out there to meet people and that's to me, that's the secret. You are out there to meet people.
Speaker 1:I've heard once, I made the comment about these, and I've been with you on one of those in Spain. If you remember well, we were after our teaching on evangelism in the afternoon. We went out to the streets of I don't remember Jaén or one other Spanish city, and we did that, and to me, what I've always observed is that the evangelism happens in the periphery of the crowd. You know happened with those who are around, and I've seen members of the team engaging with people, asking them questions, members of the team engaging with people asking them questions. How do you train the people that are on the team to engage? How do they engage with those who are paying attention or listening?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So our approach is fairly straightforward Because the presentation is reasonably short and sharp. As people stop, if they're listening, we let them listen, but as soon as we finish so as a preacher, you would say at the end, if you would like to know more, I offer them something to read. We give away. But as soon as I finished our team know, because they're trained they turn to someone who has stopped and say, oh, I'm with him, what did you think about what he was saying? And that's when the conversation really gets going and that's where the fruit is.
Speaker 2:Honestly, that's where conversations go deep. They can go on to all different sorts of subjects and people ask their real questions as well. And because we do it consistently, we go to the same place week after week after week. You soon build relationships with people and people will come back. That's interesting, yeah, absolutely For me. When I think of street ministry aside from prayer, of course, I think the most important thing is consistency. Go back, people will learn to trust you, they get to know you. I can give you countless testimonies of people who come back, who have just walked past for even years and then suddenly stop because they have a problem in their life and they don't know who to turn to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, Now maybe there's somebody here in us that says, well, that's interesting, I would like to try that. But I'm sure they always have the question how about hecklers? How about people who get aggressive or respond? I know that some people in this age of so much division are very offended by just the mention of the name of Jesus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love hecklers really, and because a heckler will help draw a crowd actually, and you always remember, when you're up front speaking, you're the one in control, so to speak, so you can choose whether to answer a question or not. And your team we have people on the team who are trained to kind of come alongside a heckler, because if the heckler gets particularly you know fruity language or something, then we'll get in a bit close. You know, one or two of our team will just stand alongside them. They know how to engage them. They'll start talking to them.
Speaker 2:But hecklers is not a bad thing and the reason I like hecklers is not just because they draw a crowd. They're heckling for a reason and there's often something going on in the background why they're so angry at God or so angry at the church. And if you can get them talking and most of the time you can just calmly, just ask them why they're so angry. Again, we've got plenty of testimonies. Some of the most fruitful conversations are with those who started by heckling, because it's stirring something and you just want to get to the matter behind it. You know what's behind their reaction.
Speaker 1:Okay yeah, interesting Hecklers are a good thing. So now, like I said before, you have moved from that to doing a lot more. Tell me a little bit about what K180 does right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's kind of grown over the years. But one thing I learned at ILI back there at the international conference as I started teaching, back there at the international conference as I started teaching is the importance of, uh yeah, keeping the vision in front of you and not going off on all different directions. I learned that quite early so we were always careful. I mean, we said no to a lot of things, basically, but what has opened up? We um, early on I was involved, invited to help train some young evangelists in the UK and that was through a connection with the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association and I ended up helping to lead that initiative. And then K180 took it on for leading evangelists, young evangelists in the UK, helping to teach, helping them to grow in those first steps of their understanding of what does it mean to be called as an evangelist, ie someone who will boldly proclaim the gospel but also mobilize the body of Christ in sharing their faith. And we expanded the vision there to invite young evangelists from across Europe and very quickly that grew. So today, across Europe we have something which we call the European Young Evangelist Network, working in partnership with different people. We've known for many years different ministries, but we take the lead there and training young evangelists when I say young in their 20s, sensing the call. So we're coming alongside the local church. We passionately believe this, that the church is God's plan A. So we want to serve the church. So everything we do, we trust, is for the benefit of the church, training young evangelists who will work out their ministry predominantly in the local church setting. And it's a thrilling thing really to be investing in these young, young adults who hear that call uh, want to make a difference with their lives and to be able to give, to invest in them alongside others. We work in partnership. We're always inviting different people to come and speak, but it's a journey with them and this is important Again, I learned this from ILI. It's a journey. We don't just do a one-off conference with them, we do a two-year journey, four residential weekends with some very practical mission opportunities in between, often going to different European cities, and then have a graduate initiative afterwards. And that was all learned through ILI. So that's for K180. These are our mainstreams really now the Creative Street Ministry, which is right at the heart still every week, ili, historymakers teaching and leading the ministry across Europe.
Speaker 2:And the European Young Evangelist Network and just to add one other thing, because it's just come about in the last few years, which I think is one of the most exciting things that we've been involved with where, just before COVID, the London Baptists approached us asking whether we would consider helping Baptist churches grow their evangelistic culture, because so many churches are struggling with this.
Speaker 2:We put a proposal together which was accepted in 2021. We started and where we spend 12 months alongside a church place, a trainee evangelist in the church for a couple of days a week, so one of the trainee evangelists that we're training. Plus there's other components to it, and teaching and going out on the street is a key part of it, and it's been an amazing journey and we've been partnering with one church a year up until this point, but now we're about to start with four churches and we have another four churches who are wanting to partner. I sense this is an important moment. Really. It's not that we have all the answers at all and I say this to the church leaders but we can bring some intentionality, we can bring some help and serve them, so I'm excited about that. We call it the journey and that's yeah, that's one of our new things, but it all ties in with the overall vision.
Speaker 1:Great, great. Well, you know there's nothing. Nothing helps revitalize a church more than started. You know, evangelizing and seeing new believers mess up the order, if you will, of the congregation. Well, this is really exciting and I have you know, we've always heard, let's say, bad news about the state of the church, the state of Christianity in the UK. It's something that's been brewing for quite a long time. There's an anti-Christian bias in the media and in a lot of areas of the country. Talk to us a little bit about how do you see I mean, you're out on the streets every day, so you see a state of your country and even Europe today. What does it look like to be a Christian in the UK and Europe?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a big question, of course, but you know, I mean, europe has about 745 million people and latest statistics would say about, well conservatively, 2% would be Bible-believing Christians across Europe. So, on the face of it, you know, it's barren. On the face of it, there are pockets of good things happening, of course, but it's difficult In many countries you're talking about 1%, bible-believing Christians, evangelical churches, but God's not finished with the church in Europe, I'm sure. And it's interesting on the streets, because the thing that I love about being on the streets is you really have your finger on the pulse. And I think, to a point anyway, and one of the number one objections from people is the church and that, but their stereotypical picture of the church or what they've heard of the church, sometimes their experience of church as well in the past. But people generally haven't rejected Jesus, which is, you know, it's an interesting thing really. So we're always there, we're preaching Christ, of course, and I think that's why often people engage we're not preaching church, although we always talk about how important church is. But it is interesting that that is, in my experience, the number one objection from people, but often it's a stereotypical picture. You know. It's not something they've necessarily experienced.
Speaker 2:You know culture, there's no question. Culture in the UK has drifted and is drifting further and further away from christ. As far as institutions are concerned, legislation, um, you know. Media, um, a gradual drifting away, um, but we still have a great deal of freedom At the moment. They have tried to curtail that freedom. It's interesting a number of street preachers have been arrested over the years, but none of them have been charged, because we still have this freedom of speech, yeah, so, yeah, there are challenges, there's no doubt, norval. I think the biggest thing is still secularism. People talk about Islam and stuff and of course there is the growth of Islam, but I think apathy, secularism comfortable with our lives generally, is still the biggest challenge. That I just don't care, sort of thing.
Speaker 1:Well, you know it's interesting. Just this past week, just this week, I'm hearing an interview with Nick Gemble, and that's the founder of the Alpha Ministry, and two other pastors from London. Actually, one has a large church in East London that is, and it's a parish church, it's a Church of England parish that has grown, and so we've also had access to the research by the English Bible Society about what they're calling the quiet revival Bible Society, about what they're calling the quiet revival. Give us a little bit on that from your perspective.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a good question, Of course. We've heard about it, keep hearing about it. I think cautiously optimistic may be my take on it. I think we have to be careful with statistics, don't we? And if you look closely at the reports, um, certainly there was a, a survey done, I think it was 13,000 people surveyed by a secular um, one of these survey bodies, and 2,000 responded saying that they go to church at least once a month, which was an increase on the last time they did a survey, a notable increase, which, okay, that's good. But of course, these surveys, you know, people complete the survey if they want to, they don't have to. And but also this the report talks about, uh, increase and a notable increase in attendance in the last six years and the church of england, the catholic church. But the issue there is that the church of england and the catholic Church at the same time have reported decreases. But I don't want to be pessimistic about it because I do think there is.
Speaker 2:I do generally think there's some sort of stirring. You hear about things anecdotally. I've not seen anything up front, close and personal, if you like, like in our home church or churches that I know. But we are hearing some things. But then there always has been an issue. I mean, when I first became a Christian, you know, our youth group was swelling in numbers. I mean we had a huge youth group. People were coming to Christ and it was, but we never talked about revival. And is there such a thing as a quiet revival? I don't know, but I do think there are some positive things.
Speaker 2:And, interestingly, to share one story here, after I was looking at the report I mean just literally, I think it was a day later or two days later one of the young men that works in our ministry was on the underground, the tube, on the phone, talking to a church. It was obvious he was talking to a church. He finished his call. A young man next to him, so a 28-year-old guy next to him, said excuse me, were you talking about church? And he said yeah, yeah, I was. He said well, it's just that I've started reading the Bible and I would like to know more about who Jesus is. So he was able to share and invite him to church.
Speaker 2:This man came to church two weeks later, made a decision to follow Christ and being discipled now and it was almost like the Lord was saying to me well, maybe there is something stirring, and maybe in culture as well, if I could just add this word because you do have people like Jordan Peterson who are kind of speaking directly to the hearts of young men really, and in a conservative way, and you've got and pointing to Christianity in some respects, and you've got a generation of young people and I'm talking about young sort of, let's say, Gen Z, as we would say Gen Z whose parents by and large are not believers. So they're not believers but they're pretty apathetic. And so when you're talking to young people, they've not got any sort of necessary christian baggage. It's almost sometimes you've got a clean sheet of paper and it's almost like they want to know.
Speaker 2:Um, and when you talk to some of these young people on the street, it's interesting that they could see that things aren't working, the things that culture is saying this is how we should be, and all the gender stuff and all that. The young people aren't stupid. They can see that this does not make sense, it's not working, so they're looking for something else and I think that, potentially, is why we're seeing more interest in spiritual things, and certainly in the things of Christ. And so we are, I think, seeing more interest from that age group, and we do see it a bit on the streets as well. So, yes, that's why I say I'm cautiously optimistic. There is something. I describe it as something stirring from where I sit anyway.
Speaker 1:Right, and how could we be prepared for that? You know, speaking as an evangelist, but also one who equips, you know you are seriously committed to equipping leaders of character as well. So how could we, what could we do to respond if there is a stirring up, if Gen Z, as you said, is interested.
Speaker 2:Give us some pointers. Well, firstly, one of the challenges we have and I'm sure it's the same elsewhere, certainly in America is that you've got all this internal fighting in church, in denominations, which is really you know, this is tearing denominations apart. I don't need to say anything on that, we see that. And so sometimes it's difficult as an evangelist when you're sharing the gospel and you're kind of pointing people, of course, to Christ. But you're pointing to the body of Christ and you can see, and people can see, it's in the news all the time. It's in a mess as far as the media is concerned, but it's his body, it's his church and I think, to answer your question directly, I suppose when you look at what potentially is happening, this stirring, the one prayer is that you hope this isn't just a cool thing to do for a young person, but it will lead to radically transformed lives, which then comes back to the discipleship issue, and it is an issue.
Speaker 2:Even in the last two weeks, I think, I've had three church leaders ask us can we help with the whole discipleship piece? Not that we have the answers, but it's making the point that we are struggling in this. I think not just this generation in recent generations. As a general statement, this doesn't apply to everyone, but discipleship has been a real struggle and so you even have a generation of believers sitting in churches who have not been discipled. I tell you, when we train these young leaders, history makers, young evangelists through the European Young Evangelist Network, one of the questions I ask when it comes to multiplication and discipling, I ask the group how many of you have been discipled? I asked the group how many of you have been discipled? It is always less than 50%, normally less than 30%, always without fail.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I see that, and so you realize. If there's an issue we have to grapple with now, it's the discipleship piece. So when these young men, women, come to Christ, how are we teaching them to be followers of Christ? Not by just going on a course or whatever, but what does discipleship look like? And I think this is the big, big need. We dare not miss this. It shouldn't just be for this time, of course. This is Jesus said make disciples. So it should be fundamental to us, and that's why I love ILI. Nothing new. That's why I love ILI, nothing new.
Speaker 2:That's why I love ILI, we give a focus on that. But yeah, I think that's absolutely the key thing we have to grapple with and seize this moment, because otherwise it would just be a cool fad and I mean I don't want to equate God out of it, but we know he calls us to disciples. So if we're not doing it, who is?
Speaker 1:No, he calls us to disciples. So if we're not doing it, who is? Well, like I said, I've been thinking about this. It's just, you know, the new TikTok, the new thing on, you know, on the young people's lives. But even if it is a new fad, the moment they encounter with the living God and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, it ceases being a fad and becomes life transformation. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:But we still have this responsibility, don't we? Where Jesus said make disciples. And if we're not taking that responsibility seriously, of course God can sustain and keep people in the faith, but there's no but to that he can. And yet he has given us the model and the pattern.
Speaker 1:Right, he has, but that's not the model he created for it. It's kind of like a plan B. Well, martin, anything that we haven't talked about, that you would like to say, or any insight for our listeners and for those watching.
Speaker 2:I think we've covered most things. I think, you know, there's always great hope, isn't there? We can talk about challenges. I really do like to see those as opportunities and you know, I suppose the one thing that God has impressed on my heart recently is just keep things simple. You know, the gospel is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes, and the danger is sometimes for all of us.
Speaker 2:We try and be too clever, come up with new gimmicks and new ways of doing things and new strategies. It's almost like he's been impressed on my heart. Keep it simple. The power is in the gospel and so we preach the gospel, preach his word. He will do the rest. He's the one that changes lives and and right, and we just need to be faithful with what he's put in our hands. And I think if there's one takeaway from me at the moment, keep it simple, walk in obedience, do what he's called us to do. Don't be influenced by the culture so much that we change things. Just bring the relevancy of the gospel to this culture, because the gospel is always relevant.
Speaker 1:Amen, amen. Thank you, martin. That is awesome. That was a great conversation. Now, if anybody would like to connect with you, get to know more about K180, give us your social or your email and all our website.
Speaker 2:Yeah, probably website's the best place to go to initially, k180.org, easy to remember, k180.org. And of course, we're on Facebook and Instagram, but yeah. Yeah, we'll add're on Facebook and Instagram, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll add them to the show notes. We'll add the links to the show notes and to the video description as well. Martin, thank you so much for being with us. Thank you for your insights. It's always exciting to hear what God's been doing through you, through all the leaders in the teams at K180. History Makers podcast is the podcast of the International Leadership Institute. We exist to equip leaders to spread the gospel, and so, if you're interested, go to iliteamorg, check us out. Please help us by making a comment, leaving your likes and helping us to spread and even share our videos and our podcast so that we can reach a larger audience. Thanks for watching. God bless you.