Ep. 94 | More Church Trends Leaders Must Not Ignore This Year

What if the biggest threat to discipleship is quietly living in your pocket? In this episode, Daniel sits down with Norival to continue their conversation around Carey Nieuwhof's seven church trends for 2026, focusing on three pressure points every Christian leader is feeling right now: evangelism, discipleship, and preaching. 

You’ll hear why evangelism is becoming bolder and more personal, and why inviting someone to church is good but not the same as sharing the gospel. They unpack how algorithms are shaping what people believe, and why pastors cannot compete on content alone when the world’s best communicators are always one tap away. The answer is not more output, but deeper relationship.

Norival and Daniel also explore the shift in preaching from presentation to encounter, the growing hunger for authenticity, and the call to return to practices that cultivate intimacy with God. If you’re leading in a church, business, campus, or community, this conversation will help you respond with courage, clarity, and the next faithful step. Tune in to gain insights on leading people into real transformation in a noisy world.

Resources:
7 Disruptive Church Trends That Will Rule 2026 - https://careynieuwhof.com/church-trends-2026

Transcript

Setting The Stage: Three Trends

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey, on today's episode of the History Makers Leadership podcast, we're continuing in a series of conversations around Carrie Newhoff's uh seven church trends for 2026. And really in the meat here, we're gonna be talking about three of the core elements for really churches in general and church leadership, discipleship, evangelism. What is preaching looking like and what does it need to look like in the future? What's the impact of the algorithm on the growth and discipleship of our people? And how do people really step into evangelism on their own? It's gonna be a great conversation with Norval Trindaji as we break down these three elements of church trends today. Well, Norval, I've really enjoyed our conversation looking at those seven church trends uh that Carrie Newhoff kind of pointed out. We looked at the first two in the last episode, but today I'd love to look at um just some of these other trends that he's seeing. Uh, and one of them was really succinctly uh he describes it as he says, evangelism is getting bolder and more direct. What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_00 1:00

You know, it's it's an interesting threat trend because I I'm not sure if it was last year or the year before that he said something akin to evangelism is dying. Uh and he was pointing out that most the vast majority of pastors state that their people don't know how to evangelize. Um and but also they are people that that very a small percentage of Christians invite others into their to to visit their church, even though something around 70 a large uh majority, 80% of people would accept, would go if invited by a friend or family member. Well, there's a disconnect there.

Invites Vs. Evangelism: What’s The Difference

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Oh man, I think it's a massive disconnect. Um, you know, I I I think we live in a cultural age where there has been uh increasing openness to those kinds of invitations. Um and yet I think I think the invitations are happening fewer and far between, probably because we just, again, particularly in America, but but even in the larger West, we we believe that we'll be rejected even though we've never tried. Right. That's true, yeah. And it's sad. You know, I I um uh it was probably about a year and a half ago I started doing uh some reading and research around this very topic, uh, and it was looking at some old Barna research. Barna did like a 20-year survey, right? So it's like 1993 to 2023, kind of uh, I guess it'd be 30 years worth of gap between those two uh dates. And this was the trend that I found most interesting from that. They found that uh most of the people, most of the believers, saw evangelism as a personal responsibility in the 90s. But in the early, in the 2000s, it moved to a church responsibility. They kind of depersonalized the responsibility of evangelism. Now, normal, we believe that the most effective Christian leaders today are practicing culturally relevant evangelism. Right. Yeah. Um, but maybe we should even kind of uh construct what that word is. Because you know what? I don't think inviting somebody to church is evangelism.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Absolutely. That and that's and that's uh one of the misconceptions is that inviting somebody to a church service or presentation equals um evangelism. Well, I uh pre-evangelism at best. Oh, at best, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

Now, to be clear, I think we want to go on record. Inviting people to church is a good thing. It's a great thing. It's a great thing.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

And and you should, everybody should, especially because statistics say most people would accept that invitation rather than rejecting. But the issue there's so two issues. First, uh uh the the mixing up inviting to church with with evangelism. Evangelism is sharing your story of faith and pointing to Jesus, sharing the gospel. Amen. And um, you know, that is that's what evangelism is, not inviting the church. The other thing is when they say evangelism is a responsibility of the church, they're not wrong. Right. Except that the church is not the building, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

They are the church. That's right. The church isn't the pastor on the stage, it's not the Sunday school teacher in the front of the classroom. The church is the gathered body of believers, and it's it's she's a member of that body. Um, and you know, when we go back to, you know, even words like gospel, uh, it's it's good news. And so when we share the good news, that's that's what we're sharing, right? I'm I'm so quick to remind people, you know, I I've never had to teach someone to celebrate. Yeah. Uh they just do it, right? You don't have to teach your kids to celebrate the win at the soccer field or the football field or wherever. They just know um that they've experienced that and they are celebrating. And that celebration is is always communal, right? You don't you don't see that your favorite team score and just sit on the on the couch quietly with your hands in your lap. Uh, you jump up, you celebrate, and that's a natural human response. And I think it's a gift from God. The gospel, that good news, is something that should be celebrated, and that's the context out of which we share it.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Yep, exactly. And uh I I recently read, I believe it was a Dallas Elder that wrote that evangelism or or the church grew in the beginning through gossip. Because basically, what people did is hey, do you know that Jew, that that Jewish rabbi that was preaching around, doing miracles and doing that, and that they killed him at the cross on the cross? Oh, yeah. Guess what? He rose from the dead, and I saw him. So essentially, that's the god that was the gospel. What's the good news? He he died, everybody saw him die. Yeah, he came back to life. That's it, and therefore he is God. So that's but it it was funny that it grew through gossip because people tell they would they will tell their neighbors, they'll tell their friends, hey, you know what? You know that guy? Yeah. Or, or, you know, if you're in in Philippi or in in Corinth, it's hey, have you heard that story about that Jewish guy over there in uh in uh in the province of Judea? Well, guess what? He could he came to life, and I know a guy that saw him in person.

Gossip Of Good News: Early Church Model

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Well, and I think I think what Carrie's pointing out here is uh, in some senses, uh I think there are some elements that are returning to that, right? He talks about how uh there are some uh church leaders who are are still sharing clips of sermons, and that's good. We need, you know, we we can learn from those kinds of things. But he's witnessing a next generation of evangelists that are really directly sharing the gospel uh through the lens uh to another individual. Uh and I think there's I think there's a you know a powerful reality that the individual believer is increasingly stepping into a place where they are engaging in sharing that good news story from their own life into the life of another person.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Exactly. Now, one aspect of this bold evangelism that he is talking about, which is different than the evangelism is dying from the past report, is that back there he was talking about evangelism in the church. Yeah. Here, evangelism pretty much bypasses the church, even though it points to it. You know, all evangelism should point to the church and to discipleship, but it bypasses the church and it's individuals or organizations or movements on campuses and on marketplace and in on the streets and whatnot that are um that are proclaiming the gospel outside and without any sometimes official connection to the church. And as I was reading that, Daniel, it dawned on me that it mirrors something else that has happened with the emergence of social media. Okay. We all talk about, well, where do you get your weather? Oh, yeah, I get it on this thing. On YouTube. Oh, yeah, of course. I've learned with you to go to these two or three um, you know, meteorologist influencers who record their own videos and they got a million, you know, they got a million followers and they make they make a living out of it. And so what happened is when the new the news moved to social media, yeah, and either it's whether it's YouTube video influencers or it was Facebook and and now Instagram or TikTok or whatever. Which so it has, they say news, information bypassed the the gatekeepers. That's right, you know, the the network televisions, the associated press, Reuters, yeah, and the other and those those agencies that aren't out there doing journalism. And so um yeah, they talk about how uh how um how bad it well it is because you don't have like you know corroborating sources, you don't you don't follow the law the rules of journalism. And perhaps this kind of evangelism doesn't fall doesn't follow some rules of proper theological uh uh proclamation because it bypasses the church, just like the news bypassed the quote-unquote news organizations.

Bypassing Gatekeepers: Social Media Parallels

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Well, Norval, listen, you're talking to a house church guy, so I'm always going to defer to uh I think that kind of evangelism better reflects the early church. Uh, it was uh very organic, it was very messy. The reason we have half the letters we have is because there was mess-ups along the way. Exactly. Um all of that is a part of learning to discover and learning to practice the way. Uh that process, I think, is a reflection of um so many good elements of the early church. Now, I understand, and I'm not, I don't want to disparage any of our high church brothers uh or sisters. I acknowledge a lot of those protections are good things, right? I've received that and and and recognize that those structures aren't bad or evil. Uh it's only an acknowledgement that when it comes to sharing this news, it's gonna be a little messy, and I'd rather it be a little messy and the news be shared than for it to be perfectly punctuated and kept in in the silence of the four walls. There's a movement that we've been connected to for a long time, and I just love the name because it speaks to the heart behind it. And it's a movement called Beyond These Walls. Yep. And that's the whole focus. We want to be beyond the walls uh because that's not what that's not the gathering we're here for. We're here to help the whole world know. Wait a second, the good news, God made a way for you to know him, to walk with him, to experience the abundant life that he comes to bring and offer, to give answering to sorrow and suffering, to give hope in the midst of trial or difficulty and to give a promise for a future. This is good news. He gave it through his own son. Wow, what an incredible gift. Um, I think that renewal uh and that that reintegration of evangelism in the life of the individual is a good thing. And that's where I think, again, practicing culturally relevant evangelism has never been more vital for the Christian leader than this moment. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

And then, of course, it cannot stop at the proclamation or evangelism. It can't. Uh, like we said on the last episode, uh, Jesus didn't call us to make converts, he called us to make disciples.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

And and and the next trend has to do with that, and it's uh it's a sobering one, isn't it? It's about it says, I don't know what you think about this, Daniel. Yeah, discipleship is now largely controlled by algorithm, and pastors are paying a huge price for that. Discipleship is now largely controlled by algorithms. Wow.

Messy And Organic: Beyond These Walls

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Uh, you know, I I think I think this is where I would start playing with word nuance. Okay. Here's what I think he's probably trying to communicate. How are people learning about Jesus? Well, they're learning where they've been learning. People are learning in this, right? The the the sum of human knowledge is at their fingertips, right? I was I was at the Library of Congress in the United States, the world's largest library. Okay. They've got something like 50 massive warehouses out in the desert just holding books, um, uh, millions and millions and millions of books, right? It used to be you had to go to a place like that to learn all the things. I have it right here. Yep, with the internet at my fingertips, um, even with the advent of AI, you have so much more knowledge. So the acquiring the knowledge, this is where people are coming. And so if the question is, how are people learning about Jesus? They're learning a lot of it through this little rectangle that they carry in their pocket. And that is very much filtered by the algorithm of their choice, whether that be Instagram or TikTok or YouTube or whatever. It's feeding them what they want to hear. It's feeding them what they want to hear, and it's feeding them uh uh what others have already social proofed, even if it's not true. Right. And so there's a real sobering thing for pastors, we got to realize hey, there's never been a more critical moment for deep relationship to be the fundamental foundation for discipleship. If we believe that discipleship is purely an intellectual exercise of I know X fact about Jesus, um then you know what? They're they're gonna learn that, and they're gonna learn that from a bunch of different places. But the way of Jesus was to walk with them, to be in relationship with them, and to make them people who could do that with others, right? Uh 2 Timothy 2,2, right? These things that you've heard and trust others will be faithful and teach others also is an instruction about learning and growing. But I also think it's a connection back to wait a second, hey, the way I taught you, Timothy, was to be in relationship with you, right? Evidenced by our travels together, but also evidenced by these letters I'm writing to you. I am in relationship with you, Timothy. This is how you've got to be in relationship with other people to make disciples who are making disciples. That is the critical piece that I think a lot of pastors today, uh, and a lot of Christian leaders in general are gonna have to come to terms with. It's no longer how much content you can produce, how much information do you have to share. It's how are you maintaining, building, establishing, and furthering relationships with people and prioritizing that enough in your calendar to make it meaningful, resulting in Christ-like transformation.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

And and and you you talked about content versus connection. People are, of course, people are interested in contact, but content, but they're not, but they're not even coming to church for content. Um and that's why one of the trends, I think it's trend number six that we're gonna. I think it's four.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Four is is uh one that looks at at how the preaching is changing. Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Preaching is changing to yes, to shift from presentation to encounter.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Listen, I I think I think he hit the nail on the head with this. I really do. I I think that the reality for pastors today, the reality for Christian leaders today, is we've got to recognize the world's best communicators are accessible to everyone via these devices. And if you think you're going to be a better communicator than the rest of the people on the planet, yeah, quite frankly, you're sadly mistaken. Um there's a different place for that to there's a different role, I think, for for us to step into. And for Christian leaders, particularly those called to to lead in a in a church context, right? Hey, you've got to recognize it's not just about what you say from the stage, it's how you walk them in an experience together. That's the more meaningful thing. And I think one of the best ways to do that, you've got to live your life open and allowing them to engage. Now, I I'll be honest, how do you do that when you've got a thousand members or two thousand members? You know, I I don't really I don't really have an answer for that, but you gotta have your 12. You gotta have your 12. And they've got to be.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

That's why a lot of people are gravitating towards uh smaller church. That's why uh many pastors are moving away from from or pastors are moving away from celebrity pastors to being uh to being more authentic and open and and all of that.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

So well, I and I do think I do think this is a cultural moment where the greater value is is being placed on authenticity and on uh uh you know sincerity of of practice, faith. It's less about presentation and more about practice. And the more you can uh have uh that openness in your life uh for people to to observe and to watch. You know, I think of Paul, he says, look, follow my way.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Look at me, do this, follow me as I follow Christ. If I don't, don't. But if I follow Christ, then go ahead and follow me. That's a bold statement.

Algorithms Now Disciple Your People

SPEAKER_01 17:23

But I think a lot of it It takes courage to say that. It takes courage, but you know what I think it also comes with? The accountability that we need as leaders, right? Uh you know, I I think sometimes by making that kind of a statement, you actually put uh you you put yourself on notice to say, oh, I've invited the eyes, I better be doing it. Right. Um and that's where I think Christian leaders need to be developing and practicing um, you know, as as as we talk about it, the eight core values uh that help them to live that fully balanced life. Exactly. Uh, where it's not performance, it's not presentation, it's it's it's the the whole the whole counsel of God, the whole practice of saying, wait a second, no, you know, hey, I'm not going to preach this sun this Sunday. I'm going to ask someone else to preach. Why? Well, because I have to practice family priority. I have to practice multiplication of leadership. Uh, if I make the stage and the presence, uh, my presence the focus, uh, we're gonna be missing things. Um, and I need people to see uh I need to I need people to see the the humanity, the authenticity of my own life, my own walk, my own practice.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

Yeah, and and and then that's that those values lay a foundation and set yourself up to be able to say, follow me.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Yeah, yeah, they follow Christ. They do. They set you up for that success. And I think this plays back into the evangelism thing where when we recognize uh okay, the practices become more personal, they become more authentic, they become more integrated. So now my evangelism is an extension of of not just my presentations on Sunday, right? It's not just about how I'm presenting the sermon, it's the experience of of how we're doing this together. Um, I'm sharing from my own life of how I'm preaching the gospel to people and engaging with people, uh, and people are seeing that or they're engaging with me on that. And and it begins to shift from that algorithm to authentic relationship. Yeah, I I think I think working those things together is it. So all right, Norval, with these three in mind, okay, looking at how evangelism has become more uh direct and and and person to person, looking at how there's been some shift and and how preaching uh is is taking shape uh and and the impact of algorithms. Well what should Christian leaders today um what should we do because of of some of these trends? What are some what are some action steps we can take to uh uh to to make meaningful kingdom progress and impact as we kick off?

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Well, I think I think all of us, and it's every one of us, leader or not, we need to do a little bit of a mere coupa, maya culpa, and and realize the superficial model of Christianity of the 20th century just it didn't work. That's why the church lost Europe was superficiality. And so it's it's it's a matter of going back going back to the basics, discipleship again, but I'm looking, I'm I'm I'm looking at myself in the mirror now and realizing what am I what is my life like? Yeah, what are some practices? Do I do I do I understand that that there are practices that are historically effective to to deepen my relationship with God? But it is not a coincidence that the first core value that we teach is intimacy with God. That's right. And without that foundation, then everything else, we we don't have anything to give. And the the heartbreaking news is that the world is needing and desiring it.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

We've we've said it many times, you can read it everywhere. Gen Z, they're ready for something of deep commitment. I I I'm always amazed at the movement that that has been going on in the campuses in the United States. It happened in several campuses where they'll have they will have a message, and then the the the altar call is not to come give your life to Jesus, is to turn to somebody next to you and confess your sins. And young people are turning to strangers or to their you know, roommates in college or or classmates in college and saying, Listen, I have a porn issue.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

Yeah.

Content Or Connection: The Relational Gap

SPEAKER_00 22:01

Hey, I'm addicted to gambling. Uh, you know, I've I'm I'm I've I have anxiety and it paralyzes me. So they're confessing to each other and and and then praying for each other and being delivered into this radical. It's it's something really radical in terms of in terms of an embrace of the Christian faith. And I think that's where that's that's what beats that superficial come to church once a week, yeah, you know, wear the wear the right clothes, uh, say the right words, don't cuss, don't do this, don't do that. And but but there is no depth and there is no sacrifice in terms of there is there is no changing of the mind, yeah, you know, renewal of the mind. And uh therefore there isn't an acceptable service to God, and therefore we people can't we can't discern the perfect will of God for us.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

You know, I I I think I think with that it's the message for Christian leaders it should be that there's a unprecedented longing to experience God. Uh that longing is is is is showing itself in the in the person-to-person evangelism. I think it's showing itself in the the hey, I'm not just here for information. I can get information through the algorithm. I'm here for an experience with God. I think I think people are longing for an experience with God, and it's a critical moment where as Christian leaders we want to introduce that, we want to facilitate that, we want to we want to support that. And look, outpouring of the Holy Spirit, that's not under our control.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Yeah, absolutely.

Preaching Shifts To Encounter Over Presentation

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Uh so obviously we we pray and we just show up. We just show up. And there are ways that I think we can experience God that are through his practices, through his word, through his his fellowship of people gathered in praise and in worship. Um, I think those are the things that that, hey, Christian leader, those are things you want to introduce. If it's in your business, recognize, hey, what are some ways that I can introduce people uh to some of those practices, some of those experiences um that that that just helps them to see, hey, this is an encounter. Uh, this is an encounter that demonstrates the impact of God on his people. You know, I it doesn't always have to be um, of course, we always pray and earnestly long for revival to break out and the spirit to pour out onto people uh uh uh uh in a way where they experience his love and his grace and his embrace, and and in that they experience God in the way that only God can make himself manifest. But you know, um my family had a chance to go to the Bible Museum recently, uh, and there was a beautiful exhibit at Norval. It was it was called All Creation Sings. Uh, and and it's wonderful if anybody's got a chance to go to it, it's it's absolutely worth it. I wasn't exactly sure what I was walking into when I went, but I thought, you know, we're here, you know, let's do it. And uh just this beautiful exhibit that starts with Genesis 1 and it moves forward through time and space and history, talking about the ways in which people and God's creation has praised, honored, and glorified and magnified God. And I'm sitting there and I'm I'm getting, you know, I'm I'm just taking it in. And it's like a totally immersive thing, right? Like four walls all being projected onto, just this very beautiful immersive thing, lots of beautiful imagery. And and I'm, you know, I'm just reflecting on on the glory of God and the beauty of his creation and and how everything points to him. And and I'm getting a little, you know, a little choked up, kind of thinking about it and kind of reflecting on uh, I don't know, just all the different things. And I look over at my 11-year-old daughter and she's crying. There are tears rolling down her face. And I realized, oh yeah, like this is spirit, you're working in the midst of this as we simply reflect on, wait, yeah, right? The heavens declare the glory of the Lord, right? That's a real thing. And and when we when we get the space to pause and reflect on that and and even have that kind of thrust in front of us, it's transformational. So for the Christian leader today, I think some of these trends point to put people in a in a in a moment where they can experience God in his presence and go to the things that he's already given us to make that happen. He's given us the church, he's given us the gathered body, right? Uh, he's given us his word, he's given us um uh creation and and its beauty and majesty, uh, and he's given us his spirit. Uh and I think if we can, as Christian leaders, step into those things and introduce people into those things, it will bring transformation in people's lives. And this is the critical moment where I think people are yearning for the experience of God more than ever before. If they show up to a church or if they show up to my Bible study, or they show up to whatever, and all they find is us. We're gonna leave them wanting. Absolutely. Yeah, there's never been a more critical moment for us to say, okay, God, uh, we're here to experience you.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

You know, and to step into it. God is real, and it's it is acting as if he is.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

And and and expecting him to show up when we uh when we call upon him. That's right. And he will. He will.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

He he will. And and that's where again, uh uh the top of this article talks about practicing and non-practicing Christians. And the we already laughed about the kind of oxymoronic nature of that. But I think that's the real, that's the real uh uh piece is no, wait a second. When people start to see it and experience it, and they experience it through us, right? Um that that's a means by which God extends his grace and and and helps people to see, wait a second, this is this is a transformational real message in a world that's full of uh fake messages uh and false narratives, um and you know, AI generated slop, um a critical moment. So as we talk about through some of these leadership trends, I think I think that would be my big takeaway. Uh anything to add to that or or you know, any other thoughts on on you know, as we look at these three trends, yeah. What do we do with this?

SPEAKER_00 28:12

It's just brave, just seek God. Hey, God, where what where do you what do you want me to do next? Um He will He will show us the way. That's right. Um He will if you uh if you look for if you look for Him, if you seek Him, if you ask, He will answer. Amen. Even even atheists and and and agnostics and people without faith, uh if they when they cry out to God, a lot of conversion stories we read is like that. When they cry out to God, He answers, and all of a sudden they realize, oh yeah, He's real. So we already know that.

SPEAKER_01 28:52

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Um cry out to God, let's cry out to God, let's surrender to God, and let's do the next thing. We don't need to do great things, we just need to do the next thing.

Authenticity, Smaller Circles, And The Twelve

SPEAKER_01 29:03

That's beautiful. Well, Christian leaders, I want to encourage you. Uh, God is working through you. I think the best way to advance the gospel, I think the best way to advance the kingdom is through a local leader, just like you. And listen, God has given you influence in a sphere, in a set of communities and circles where uh transformation is taking place, needs to take place, and will take place because God is near. These trends are just some of the things in which we can see God moving. We want to help equip you to be the most effective Christian leader in your current context. Uh, the International Leadership Institute exists because the most effective way to advance the kingdom is a local leader. We want to help you do that. We believe the eight core values are a great means to help you grow as a leader. Check out iliteam.org. There you'll discover those eight core values and some more resources that can help you grow in your faith, your life, your leadership, so that you can be a part of God's bigger story here today. Uh, thanks so much for joining us on the History Makers Leadership Podcast.