Ep. 96 | Faith-Driven CEOs and the Power of Purpose

What happens when faith becomes the driving force behind your leadership? In this episode, Daniel and Norival explore powerful insights from a Barna study on faith-forward CEOs and what truly distinguishes them in today’s marketplace.

This conversation dives into how purpose reshapes business strategy, company culture, and personal fulfillment. You will hear why many Christian executives see their organizations as platforms for influence and blessing, not just revenue generation. The episode also explores the connection between spiritual disciplines and leadership health, including how practices like prayer, reflection, and intentional soul care contribute to greater satisfaction and clarity in decision-making.

Barnabas and Norval address the gap between identifying as a Christian and actively integrating faith into everyday leadership. They discuss the importance of mentorship and discipleship in the workplace, and how pastors and ministry leaders can better support marketplace leaders who desire to live undivided lives.

If you are a business owner, executive, pastor, or emerging leader who wants to align faith and influence, this episode will challenge and encourage you. Tune in to gain practical insight on leading with conviction, courage, and Kingdom impact.

Resources; 
Barna Research - https://barna.gloo.us/reports/faith-forward-ceo

Transcript

Defining Faith-Forward CEOs

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Norval, you know I have just such an incredible heart uh for Christian leaders, but uh I have a particular heart even for Christian leaders that that operate in the marketplace. Uh there's been so many uh men and women that have done incredible kingdom things, uh leading and um accomplishing kingdom initiatives through that particular avenue. Uh and there was a report recently that you shared with me uh a couple of days ago for us to look at today, uh, talking about some of the habits and practices of those kinds of leaders. Um, what what were some of the things that kind of stood out to you as you started looking, man?

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Well, um Barna did a did the study with it's interesting, it's not only Christian leaders. They call them faith forward uh CEOs.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

And they've interviewed something like 250 or 2006 CEOs. Um 75% of them were Christians, okay, or self-identified as Christians. Sure. Um, but 81% were faith forward, were people for whom um their religion, whether it's Christian or not, because uh 25% of the group uh were not. We're not okay. We're not uh we're not Christians. So, but there were there were those who were for whom faith was a significant part of of their work, of their company. It's so they call them faith forward.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

That's a really interesting uh kind of a title, a choice, a moniker to say, hey, uh I'm being faith forward in my in my leadership, etc. I'm I mean, did they expound on some of what that faith forward looks like?

SPEAKER_00 1:55

It's just it just means that faith was it was significant and it was part, it was an integral part of what they did as as leaders or CEOs in their company. Okay. So uh I guess that's a way they figured out how to how to blend in those who were who were Christians and not Christians, but also to to study that particular segment of people and see what what religion and what faith, yeah, um, how it affects the way they lead their companies.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Well, I I know we have such an incredible heart to help uh leaders develop uh not only practices but but elements of identity and and values that will sustain their leadership for a long period of time toward kind of kingdom-minded initiatives. There were a lot of really interesting findings from this report. Um, what what were some of the things that stood out to you the most as we kind of like open it up here?

Purpose Over Profit

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Well, uh the first that probably um the fact that faith, character, and faith, character uh were were significant high on their value, their on core values and in their priorities as business. Um the the the a large majority of people uh said that their their purpose for for having a business was to uh was to have a positive influence. Um and it went it was way higher than profit, for instance. Yeah, yeah. So it was they viewed their business not primarily as a source of profit, but as a source of influence, as a source of uh of of blessing.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Now, uh, you know, this idea of like corporate good or or social good out of corporations is is something that has had a bit of of energy, particularly in in the West and in marketplaces, right? That's where you've got um, you know, some of these big corporate entities doing, you know, uh some social good works in different elements and communities. From what you saw in some of this, was there something uh was this just a kind of a forgive the phrase, uh a baptized version of that? Or do you think that there was something different about these leaders, some habits or practices, maybe some rhythms that differentiated them from uh just another trend in kind of corporate leadership?

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Okay, first of all, there was there was a significant difference in motivation from those who self-identified as Christians and and from from those who identified themselves as not non-Christians.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

Um the of course everybody, uh every every CEO, there's at some point profit profitability is is counted. It just it just wasn't at the top. Sure, sure. But more um, let's say profitability rated higher in the list of of priorities for the business among non-Christians than they did for Christians. Okay. So the the the good, doing good, let's let's put it this way, doing good rated higher among faith forward leaders than it rated than than those who are not.

Soul Care And Satisfaction

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Now, I I've I've long been a believer that um, you know, there was an economist, uh, I think his last name was Von Mises, who created a a concept called um sharehold shareholder wealth as the primary value that an organization brings, right? The value they bring is shareholder uh wealth or shareholder value, like increasing that is the kind of fundamental role of a business, right? A lot of MBA schools will kind of teach that. Um, but what I've heard in my conversations with a lot of Christian business owners and leaders is that they actually view profit um as as blood in the body. It's not evil, it's not wrong, it's it's it's actually necessary. If I don't have blood moving through my body, um then then the reality is uh I'm going to die, right? And any any business, any entity that doesn't have uh um, well, positive cash, right, and and profits coming in will in time uh actually die. It's not going to be sustainable. But uh, this is what one of our brothers, uh, I think it was actually a business guy over in Ghana that I was listening to when we were there, uh, he said something to this effect. Blood in my body is not my purpose. Uh, no more than profit can be the purpose for my business. Uh, it's necessary, but my business must have a higher purpose than that. Uh, that's what gives it life, right? And so if I could be kept alive by a machine just pumping blood around my body, I would not necessarily be alive. I wouldn't be accomplishing something, I wouldn't be transforming anything, it wouldn't be a part of uh, I think a continuation of that Imago Dei, that creative energy and and uh uh ref creative reflection of the nature and person of God, if uh I don't have a higher purpose. So when when we looked at some of their habits or or rhythms, what I mean, what what kind of stood out? I mean, what what did what did they find in some of this study?

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Well, uh, first of all, most the majority of the leaders interviewed, particularly the ones that waived for faith forward, were very optimistic with regards to to their own relationship with the business, with family. Um there's there was a difference between with the Christians being higher, non-Christians being um not as high as their level of satisfaction with their family life, with their spiritual life. But there was a correlation between uh discipline, practices of discipline, what he they call it soul care. The study calls them soul care. So the the the more the more focused or the more disciplined their lives were in terms of caring for their own souls and caring for their own spiritual spirituality, the higher the satisfaction with leadership, the higher the satisfaction, uh, the level of satisfaction. Now, what's interesting about this that that you need to take into consideration is that these are interviews with the leaders themselves. They, you know, obviously a 360 evaluation would have been a lot more effective. Sure. So this is their perception of themselves, of their companies, of their lives. But there was a direct correlation. The those those who practiced what they call soul care uh once a month or less, yeah, were less satisfied, were less uh satisfied with their leadership, was were less satisfied uh with with uh their relationships in general. Yeah. And I were probably less successful, you know, as as as individuals, as leaders.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

Well, uh, you know, I I understand from like a even an analytical or or or social survey kind of perspective that that having that that be self-reported, uh, you know, it gives gives some some variance to that. But I'll be honest, there have definitely been moments in my life where I have not been satisfied with my family life or with my leadership and its efficacy and those kinds of things. So to hear that, um, you know, still, even based on self-reported, that there's there's some insights here um is really encouraging to me. And I can attest, even, you know, coming out of uh the end of any given year, uh, just or or different leadership moments where you get busy, you get hectic, you you miss some of that soul care, right? Where as Christians, we would, we would define those as some of the spiritual disciplines, right? You know, faithful daily reading in God's word, fellowshipping with the saints, uh, regular constant prayer, fasting, like these disciplines, uh, the practices of soul care that that Christ gives us. And when I when I miss those things, I I feel like a worse leader. Uh I mean exactly. You know, I I don't I don't have the the energy, the the drive, the bandwidth, the grace to lead in my home or to lead in in an organization uh or my church or any other context, uh, unless I've I've I've held some of those steadfast practices in my own life. And I I think that in some ways that's that's really learning and practicing um elements of self-leadership that that God calls us to.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Right. And and uh one of the interesting findings that um that draws the attention is that 56% of the COs interviewed uh considered themselves self-critical. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

So a little more than half at least have the the personal wherewithal to self-reflect and go, hey, to do what you just I'm missing the mark.

Honest Self-Leadership

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Oh, what you just did. Yeah that's why I remembered it because that you were talking about, you know, see moments when you know, due to the pressures of in our case, of raising funds to do the work of a of a nonprofit, yeah, because you are a CEO, uh, you're not uh not for profit. But that, hey, at times, you know, I ended up neglecting my own soul care. That was a characteristic of 56% of the of the ones that were considered faith forward, is that they they they thought they were they were kind of self-critical, they were always always looking at themselves, um, which has a positive side and a negative. You can be self-critical and paralyze yourself, or you can be self-critical and and be able to make corrections that will make you a better leader, a better person.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

Well, when I think of self-leadership, I think one of the most critical elements that that stands to me is is I have to acknowledge my propensity to lie to myself. Uh, there's so much ability for me to make myself believe something about myself that is false. Oh, I actually knew the right answer, even though, you know, everyone else on the team is telling me something different. Or I would have known, or I could have done this better, or well, I I would have, you know, I'll I'll use a classic one for me, I would have exercised if I hadn't had right. And we come up with excuses and all those kinds of things. And so when I think about self-leadership, uh, the first principle that comes to my mind is I've got to be honest with myself and practice that self-criticism, uh, or you know, that self-critique, I guess I should say, um, without losing the confidence and the assuredness of my identity in Christ and that his mercy is on you every morning. And if I am uh uh faithful to confess my sins, he is faithful and just to forgive me of all unrighteousness. Uh it's it's in that that I can be confident uh to start each day um in in in in a frame that that allows me to to move forward. So what what other elements from that the those practices of self-leadership did did they reflect on in this report?

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Uh I don't think they went into those, you know, that kind of detail. Uh yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

Well, I I can certainly understand that, you know, they're they're probably taking a series of questions and kind of boiling it down and finding that this is some element of it. What what what was one of the other questions that that kind of drove their their action?

SPEAKER_00 13:43

Well, uh the the self-leadership is one one important aspect of it, uh, but also how does that self-leadership, how does their faith affect the way they actually lead? You know, what does it in imply to the the actual act of leadership, which was the kind of the second set of questions?

SPEAKER_01 14:05

Okay, so so it it it then becomes this question of how am I making Sunday into Monday, right? For the for the the faithforward Christian leader? Um, how am I kind of bridging that gap? How am I uh finding some some critical practices? Gosh, I've got to imagine, at least at the foundation, uh there's better self-satisfaction when they don't feel like they're they're a split personality, but just one personality, right? Uh when I can feel like I'm I'm I'm not only allowed, but I'm able to practice my faith in all contexts of my life. I don't feel quite so uh uh divided or or bifurcated, but but rather I can I can take a breath and I can live faith forward.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

And and and that's that's one of the aspects that was interesting about these leaders, um, about these CEOs, and and is is that's in that split that it that's very common, that was has been very common in our society where you got the secular, you got the sacred. And so Christianity, your faith is what you do in church, your faith, uh, and then um then there's this other life. You're the CEO, you're the president, and you're you're you're separated. What the study found is that there seems to be a better integration. For instance, what motivates these faith forward CEOs?

SPEAKER_01 15:26

So a great question then, Norval, is is just this. What motivates those CEOs uh to operate in a faith forward fashion? Or you know what kind of sits at the root of that process?

SPEAKER_00 15:38

82% of the CEOs of these of the faith forward CEOs reported that what motivates that uh an in important motivation is to make an impact. Uh have a positive impact in others. Yeah. So key motivator.

Bridging Sacred And Secular

SPEAKER_01 15:55

They the end result here, again, is uh they long to see change or transformation uh in their community or in their employees or in their their customers. That they want to see something changing in the lives of other people. That sits as the motivator. And gosh, doesn't that sound a little kingdom-minded? I mean, I know this is not all Christians, but but there's a significant percentage of these that are self-proclaimed believers. And I think that's the distinct variance that that marks a Christian leader, a Christian CEO that's living out their faith in this context. Their self-leadership is one that is motivated, longing to see gospel or kingdom transformation.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

And and and some of these high motivators are other-oriented. Like the second one, the second most important was the culture. And you know, their biggest motivator was creating a healthy culture in the company. Within the company, within the company. Within the company.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

They're wanting their internal culture. So so maybe there's some external culture elements too, but it they want their internal culture. So actually, what I'm even hearing further is, you know, maybe, maybe even counter to some of the populist claims about CEOs out to get their employees and kind of in these faith forward CEOs are saying, no, no, no. I care about these people. I want to see them be successful. I want them to have um, you know, uh uh uh positive interactions, and I want the corporate or company culture to be something that is a positive thing. Um, and and you know, I I think it's it's important to remember um the Christian way, right? The ways of Jesus um are done really like when our motivation is that it's it's out of followership to him, it's out of love and affection for him. We're not following Jesus because it's the best strategy. We're following Jesus because he's the Lord of the universe. And it happens to be that his ways are pretty good ways to build community and impact and see transformation and culture.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

Absolutely, yeah. The the the another key motivator was fulfilling my purpose. Like them personally or the purpose of their them purpose uh the motivated for leadership is their calling. The company. Um I guess I interpret that as being, hey, this company is my calling.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

So what motivates me to lead and to lead well is that this is what God entrusted to me. It's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Well, uh, what I hear in that, Norval, is one of the things that we teach all the time is God's looking for men and women who cast vision, set goals, mobilize the body of Christ, overcome obstacles in order to reach the nations for Christ. You have this this Christian, this faith forward CEO saying, what motivates me is a is a vision to see um something accomplished, right? Um sometimes in Christian context, we'll call that calling or or purpose. But that that motivator, again, um forming part of that self-leadership. So I've got to have that ability to be honest with myself, be critical when it without being, you know, overly uh, you know, I've got to critique myself without being overly critical, but I've also got to practice um understanding my vision and calling and allowing that to remain my motivator rather than something external to that, because that might that might undermine that or or give me some habits or practices that will lead me astray. Am I down the right path on some of that?

What Truly Motivates These CEOs

SPEAKER_00 19:22

I think so. And now not all the findings were were this positive on this on this particular thing. Disturbing might be too too strong a word, but yeah. One is that um greater societal change ranked really low, rank ranked low in the motivation for leadership. Oh, really? They're they're motivated to to influence the company, maybe influence the client. A more my take on it is a more individualistic view of the kingdom of God, where it's about influencing individuals, people, but not society as a role, the the the as a whole. And so that making a making a greater impact in society ranked um towards the bottom tier of motivations. The second one, it's very interesting, it's a little disparity. Uh so although 75% of CEOs are considered faithful uh Christian, 81% are faith forward, um only half said that their faith motivates them as a leader.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Okay. Okay, so if I'm a if I'm a pastor listening to this right now, is this what I should be hearing? Help me here. That the that the Christian or the faith forward CEOs in my congregation today might need encouragement or discipleship to A see and and develop a motivation that that more intimately connects their faith to their to their work, right? And intimately connects their uh faith work to the Global Great Commission. Would that be a fair like if I'm a pastor, is that is that something I could take away from this?

SPEAKER_00 21:19

That's probably that that if if you're a pastor and if you have CEOs, um Well, yeah, I mean those are those are things to to to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

Yeah, these faith forward CEOs are going to they're theoretically going going in a church gathering somewhere, even if it's you know once or you know, once or twice a month or something, but but if if I'm wanting to disciple them and they obviously want to see transformation in their in their staff, right, right, in their in within their corporate boundaries and corporate walls. But if if what motivates them isn't isn't deeper societal change, if what motivates them isn't a connection of their faith and their work uh as much, then gosh, that that's That's a key opportunity for growth. Absolutely. Wow. Well, then how uh well Norval we both lead in churches. How how might we go about some of that? I mean, goodness, how how do I how do I help uh um mentor that leader in that way uh to help them grow, to help them have some of that that that self-leadership.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Well, uh here's here's an interesting thing. You you you you you mentioned a word there, mentor. Um one of one of the findings that will show up later on is that uh a significant percentage of the Christian, the CEOs, the Christian CEOs um were mentored. A higher percentage of the Christian CEOs that are practicing Christians had a mentor in their lives, um either some at some point or right now, than the non-practicing Christians, those who are just uh identified, self-identified as Christians. Yeah. And then even higher than those who identified as non-Christians. The presence of a mentor, you know, and you were talking about that this exactly that that correction, you know, um is is is will only come about through uh mentorship.

The Blind Spot Of Societal Change

SPEAKER_01 23:33

Yeah. I think, I think, you know, when I reflect on a lot of the the pastors and and church leaders I know, um, the thought of of being the one to mentor some of these marketplace leaders, honestly, it if they were authentic, they'd probably say it intimidates them some. You know, if I'm a pastor and I've got on average uh a hundred and maybe eighty people in my congregation, and one of them happens to be a CEO, and I'm sitting there going, oh my goodness, like this is, you know, this this guy, this gal, she she's leading in this context. I don't know how I'm supposed to mentor her, like what that looks like, uh, you know, all those pressures and questions. You know, I I think I think one of the things I'd encourage them is say, hey, um, when we when we seek to make disciples, one of the things we do is we we try and get people who are in similar C similar seasons of life. There's some great ministries that exist uh that help mentor Christian CEOs to live out their faith in these kinds of contexts. Um, obviously C12 is a group that that paid for this particular research to be done, uh, but there's others, FCCI, the Fellowship of Companies for Christ International. Um, groups like Praxis is another great one. Um, there's there's all kinds of individuals in movements, and we've even talked to some business mentors on the podcast. I talked to a dear friend of mine, Rob Streetman, a a number of episodes back, that that point to individuals that are mentoring leaders in the midst of uh that process in that that season of leadership.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

And basically, the goal is to help them break that dichotomy of secular and and and uh and sacred to to see their companies as a sacred space just as much as a church is and see their work. Um and you know like a increase that percentage of CEOs that's that consider their faith to be at the one of the top priorities um of of their lives as CEOs and their business as a whole.

Mentoring Marketplace Leaders

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Well, I'm I'm so encouraged, Norval, that that we've been able to look at this. Uh, I know I know there's four elements to this report. We're just kind of looking at the first here in this particular one, but I'm I'm encouraged to see, hey, uh, in these faith forward CEOs, there's a good, faithful practice of self-leadership. It's got some honest feedback to self. I gotta look, you know, uh they they're looking at that, they're investigating that, uh, they're they're identifying their motivations. Um, and there's a real opportunity as a Christian leader uh to come alongside them as a pastor, uh, as just a brother, a mentor, to to help them understand and discover how they can integrate those things uh each day uh in in various ways to not only bring transformation in their employees, praise God, uh, but also beyond their walls into the larger community and society of at large. And as they practice their faith in that space, it seems to be that this report continually points out they're having higher satisfaction, less burnout, and overall a higher degree of of uh impact, longevity, and self-satisfaction in the work that they're leading. Those sound like some really good outcomes for a leader uh that's that's leading in the marketplace.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

And companies like that can really make uh an impact in society. Brother, uh that's exciting. That's that's what we're here for. That's the kingdom, that's the kingdom coming um uh mentality. That's right. That uh that the kingdom of God is not just the church. That's right. The kingdom of God is is companies that that that influence people, that bless people, that are other focused, that practice servant leadership.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

The kingdom of God goes out of the doors every time the church opens its doors at the end of the day. Absolutely. They go back out into the world, and it's wonderful to see these faith forward leaders uh experiencing such satisfaction as they step into and as they practice their faith in their business and market. Man, that's exciting. Hey, listen, I want to encourage you at the International Leadership Institute. We want to walk with leaders just like you, just like these faith forward Christian leaders, in discovering uh not only God's call for your life, but the the core values of leadership that will allow you to accomplish it and have a sustaining legacy of leadership. Um, if you want to discover more about that, go to iliteam.org. There we've got some different uh things that you can see about each of those values, understand how you can get plugged into this global network and community. Uh, Norval, it's always a great time to sit down with you and chat through uh these uh kinds of reports and research. And I look forward to talking through the next one with you, man. Yes, sir.