Talk To Me Petey D
People Management. Leadership. Productivity.
Talk To Me Petey D
Ep. 54: Leadership Coaching with Dani G
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Disengagement at work is rampant. In this episode we explore why connecting our work to purpose is so important. This is a big challenge; I am fortunate to be joined by Dani G, a leadership coach, to unpack the issues together.
Dani’s details:
https://www.withinsightdev.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielle-giannone-b97b3770/
Content mentioned:
Sheryl Richardson - https://cherylrichardson.com/
Frances Frei office hours - https://anneandfrances.com/officehours
15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership - https://www.amazon.com/15-Commitments-Conscious-Leadership-Sustainable/dp/0990976904
Living a Committed Life - https://www.amazon.com/Living-Committed-Life-Fulfillment-Yourself/dp/1523093099
Leadership Unblocked - https://www.amazon.com/Leadership-Unblocked-Through-Beliefs-Potential/dp/1647827264
The Enneagram - https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/ to take the test
The Wisdom of the Enneagram by Riso and Hudson - https://www.amazon.com/Wisdom-Enneagram-Psychological-Spiritual-Personality/dp/0553378201
Bonus recommendations:
Dare to Lead by Brene Brown
Hidden Potential by Adam Grant
More Petey D:
Book: https://www.amazon.com/People-Management-Ground-Up-Aspiring/dp/B0DBGQ57XT
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pete-dempsey/
Website: https://peterdempseywrites.com/
Newsletter: https://peterdempseywrites.com/newsletter/
Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/petedempsey.bsky.social
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/@TalkToMePeteyD
Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talk-to-me-petey-d/id1745885025
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4NrlsWzansuCfuApMCZzj0
Disengagement of work is rampant. In this episode, we'll explore why connecting work to our own individual purpose is so important. This is a big challenge, and I'm fortunate to be joined by leadership coach Danny G to help unpack the issues and explore how we can connect our work to our own individual purpose. This is the Talk2Me PDD podcast, where we look at all things knowledge work, tech, society, AI. Today we're diving into the topic of leadership coaching. So this is episode 54, Leadership Coaching with Danny G. You can find Danny at withinsightdev.com. We talk about a bunch of different resources that'll be helpful. I'll put those all in the show notes along with our contact information. And I hope you enjoy listening to the two of us nerd out about various leadership coaching and team leadership topics. Enjoy. Okay, sounds good. Well, we'll get started and see how it goes. So thanks for doing this, Danny. You're uh a leadership coach, so excited to talk to you about that and what you do, and maybe some things that people can can take away and learn from that, or maybe get interested in leadership coaching themselves. So thanks for for joining us today. Um, now, so how do you define leadership coaching and what's what's your practice like?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Uh Pete, I'm so uh happy to be talking with you today. I think you and I uh we really bonded over leadership uh when we first met. So it's really fun to be talking to you about this. Um how do I define leadership coaching? That's a great question. Um really, it is about helping leaders raise awareness about how they show up and ultimately helping them uh commit to showing up in different ways that gets them the results that they're really looking for. So that's really it in a nutshell is raising awareness.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. So people talk about leadership and meaning, all sorts of different things, or who's quote unquote a leader. So what how's what's your audience, right? What's what's a leader to you and who could benefit from from leadership coaching?
SPEAKER_01That's uh also a great question. Um, as what I can tell you is the majority of people I work with are are people who are leading leadership teams, so CEOs, executive directors. Um, but I also love working with uh frontline managers. So I work with any leader and I define a leader as someone who is running a team. And uh my intention is to help them make work feel really good so they get great results from from their employees. So it could be it could be the the senior level, um, and it could also be down to frontline managers.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. So what are what are some of the challenges kind of that you've seen across the the leaders that that you coach in your practice?
SPEAKER_01That's it, that's a big uh that's a big question.
SPEAKER_00Maybe picking just a couple a couple, right? The ones that stand out the most.
SPEAKER_01Well, quite honestly, the the biggest issue that I I see teams facing now, um, and it's across the board, is is disengagement. Um recently Gallup just came out with its latest poll, and the number is 80% of people who are disengaged at work. So um, as you can imagine, uh what I see in teams is people putting their heads down and and trying to get work done, leaders really like pushing to get work done without taking time to sit back and say, what is the environment and how uh and are we creating an environment where people can go above and beyond? And that's not that's not happening right now. Um, and we spent a ton of time at work, and most of us, I mean, that's what the numbers say, most of us are going to work and we're not happy and we're not excited, and we're we don't light up by the idea of going to work. Uh so days become grinds versus uh you know, that we're aligned on this bigger purpose and we're excited to be there tackling it together. I don't know if I answered your question. That was a lot of work.
SPEAKER_00So if I put on my my my cynical business leader hat, why is it important to me that the people that work for me show up and are excited and engaged with with their work? What's what's the benefit to me just purely from an evil business person perspective?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, great question. I it's really uh a very simple answer. When people feel better at work, they give more effort. When they give more effort, they get better results. So that's it. It's really, it's really simple. And so many smart people, so many people who so many greedy people, and so many smart people miss that very simple connection. When we feel good, we do better work.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. That's what I what I see as well. Um, so what do you think it is that's that's driving this disengagement? And is this a recent phenomenon or something that you've seen over you know a longer period of time?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, great question, Pete. Um so it has been a theme um for a while. I mean, this is if you go back years and years, disengage disengagement is increasing. It hasn't been stellar, you know, by any means. Uh what I would say the biggest driver of it is purpose. Um, if people aren't really passionate about why their work matters and what they're doing, uh, it's hard to be engaged. And when you work for a big company that doesn't take time to really align the work that you're doing to the bigger picture purpose, or if the purpose is is not um, I don't want to say how do I how do I say the word in a way, if the purpose doesn't light people up and feel like it matters, if it's just making people money, um, it's really hard to get people excited about it. So did that answer the question? I really think it's purpose. People want to feel like their work has meaning. And when it doesn't, it's what why are we doing it? I'm doing it for a paycheck, I'm doing it to put food on the table. But uh, but that doesn't, that is not what motivates people. That motivates people to a certain extent.
SPEAKER_02Sure.
SPEAKER_01But feeling like they're making a difference is really um, you know, you can you can get leaps and bounds better results when you when you're tied to that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it makes sense. So kind of connecting those themes. If you're a leader, you want to get the most out of your teams, you need your people to be energized, connected to purpose. So then the next question is, how do you do that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, great. Um, and and energized, connected to purpose. So they're willing to give discretionary effort, so they're willing to go above and beyond versus just what's on what's on a piece of paper. So, how do you do that? Um, well, you uh so I use a model that I created, which is is the lift model. Um, it's a framework that I help leaders go through. It is uh first you have to uh be able to state the purpose. So why does the company exist? What are you really trying to do with it? Um, and then really get people uh engaged on why, why it is that they've picked this work and why it is that they're showing up every day. It's it is really, it doesn't take a lot, but most people are not actually even talking about it. You know, they're just putting their heads down and trying to get the work done without taking time to reflect and say, well, why are we doing this? And what brings meaning to the the work and why are you doing this particular role?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, makes sense. So one of the phrases that they use there that I like a lot is that discretionary effort, right? Trying the people who are engaged are going to uh choose to put more of their effort or themselves into their work. So then putting yourselves or putting ourselves in the the shoes of you know somebody being led by this team, we have our own lives, our sense of purpose at work, but then we have life outside of work. So, how do you see all these things coming together where if I'm find more purpose at work, I'm gonna engage with more of my discretionary effort. But then also, you know, how do I balance my life outside of work? Is it work-life balance? Is it work-life integration? How do you think about all those things with an engaged team working towards a purpose that they feel individually connected to, but then also understanding that there's a life outside of work?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that is a really big that's a big question.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, an easy question to solve, right?
SPEAKER_01I want to take take parts of it. Um balance is critical. Uh, you know, along with with disengagement, burnout is uh on the rise. Um and which means that um people are out of whack a little bit, right? Like it could be a lot of it or a little bit, like however you want, people are out of whack with uh with work life balance. That is what that says to me. Um or it could just mean that you know the work itself is just too much for any person to uh accomplish. So how am I going to answer this question? What I would say is this when you have created a team that really feels connected to one another, that is in it together, that feels like uh like they've got each other's back, that has a high level of trust, it it makes the work easier to accomplish. It makes the engagement off the charts, but it also creates an environment where you have each other's backs. So you are not um so you're not overextending yourself. You've got a team there who who is along for the ride with you. That being said, um, I don't know if this happens to you, but it happens to me when I love what I'm doing, when I'm really in that flow state of feeling great about the work that I'm doing, I can spend hours and hours and hours of my life. They can go by in a flash. And next thing I know, uh, you know, it's time to put dinner on the table for the family. And I'm like, where did all this time go? So I think with purpose and meaning um comes the ability to overwork very easily. And I say that in a it doesn't feel like overwork, but it can take away from that meaningful time you spend with your family. So I do think that there is, there has to be intention, there has to be reflection, and you have to, you know, if you really love what you're doing, um, you have to be intentional about how to how to balance that with the other parts of your life that are really the most important.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that's that's kind of a challenge that I struggle with or I try and to manage. And, you know, in theory, you're a victim of your own success, right? If you've done a good job and you have a good team that's connected to it and excited, like you said, it's easy for that time to go by. Um, but I think that can also lead to to burnout or maybe diminishing returns if we're not careful about that. I haven't really found a great way to encourage people to to take breaks. I try, but they generally don't listen if they're excited about things. Um, but I think it's good to be aware of.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's really important to be aware of, but also at the same time, it is about the culture you have on the team that you've created as a leader. So I've I've seen cultures where uh work-life balance isn't a thing, you know, like they uh, you know, the the culture is you you work your ass off to get your work done, and uh and and there's no real care for the balance that you have. Uh but when leaders can model that for their teams where they can, you know, show that they can do it themselves, then it's a lot easier for people uh to know that it's okay to leave work at three o'clock to go see a you know their kids' soccer game. Um, that has to be that has to be part of the culture. So I think that that's a really important piece is modeling it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that's great to call out because sort of the at least the popular culture of leaders have this, maybe it's performative, maybe it's not, but you know, choosing to live and sacrifice everything they have for this ideal of work, and then they're you know the heroes of our business world and whether or not you want to aspire to that, it's kind of in the popular culture. So I think you're right, having a leader that sets a different example normalizes that for the team and makes it okay. So important to have as a model. Um well, cool. So shifting gears a little bit, but kind of thinking about um, you know, how how we lead and how we show up. Um, in order to do that, we have to to know ourselves a bit and be be kind of aware of who we are, strengths or our weaknesses, and that sort of thing. Um, so how do you like to think about that? Working with clients, helping them get to know themselves, or any any tools or practices that that you like there?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Uh yeah, that's a great question. I think that part is, you know, our journey in life is constant. Um, I don't know about you, but uh for most people that that I know is we're constantly learning new things about ourselves and we're constantly like on this journey. It's not like you can go from point A to point B and then, oh, I know everything there is to know about myself. Um, I wish it were, I wish that were the case. Um, so I use a couple of different assessment tools to help people. Um, I've got the leadership effective analysis, which is like a deep dive on what behaviors, how you show up as a leader. Um, and that could be done, you know, leaders will fill it out on themselves, and then their their team, their direct reports will fill it out as well as their uh boss. But at the end of the day, I do think it's a valuable tool. Um, I'm more interested in who you are as a person, how you showed up in the in this world and how you develop these behaviors later on in life. So I love I love tools like the Enneagram. I don't know if you've do you know about the Enneagram?
SPEAKER_00I don't know if I do. No, you can maybe chat about it in the past. Yeah, tell us.
SPEAKER_01I you know, uh it is one of the tools that I've learned from um Cheryl Richardson. She's like one of the original coaches, like in the you know, when when coaching became the thing, uh, she was like president of the ICF, the uh coaching federation. So I was lucky enough to learn uh two times with her about this tool. And it is it's very helpful, and it's very helpful to use on a team. Uh, there's nine different types, and uh, you know, like it's a very brief test that you could take, and it's like 20 bucks. You could do it online today, but it will show you like your motivations and drivers of so many of the behaviors that you exhibit, whether in the workplace or with your family. Um, I've done it with my partner and and my best friends, you know, like just to see it is a fascinating tool that helps you really understand um how you develop the personality that you have and how that personality shows up in in all different parts of your life. Um the other really valuable tool to learn more about yourself, especially in the leadership role, is to get feedback. Um, you know, when I when I coach leaders, uh it's really important that um if they really want to grow in their be in their ability to lead their teams, that they're hearing directly from their teams how they're leading. And quite honestly, I think that is that that is very rare these days. People don't speak honestly at work, they don't say things like, hey Pete, you know, when you when you when you blow off my one-on-one, it makes me feel like you you you don't value me. Yeah, people are not having those conversations, so so which is which is really sad. And it is my focus when I'm working with leaders and teams to really learn how to speak openly, honestly, uh with one another to build trust and to get better results. But if you're not speaking honestly, like you have no idea where your opportunities are. So we start there. Like, let's get honest feedback, anonymous. Uh, people always ask this is it anonymous or or you know, should should you know who it's coming from? Well, it depends on how the team is right now. Like, is there a high level of psychological safety? Uh, is there a high level of trust? If there is, then no problem putting people's names on it. Uh, but most of the time there there aren't those things. And um, so it is anonymous, and oftentimes they'll have conversations with me ahead of time. And I will do a do a do a uh summary for for the leader to say, look, this is what you do really well. You know, this is what your team says you do really well, and here are the areas of your biggest opportunity.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, those are great. I want to come back to to feedback, um, but but you know, kind of the with these self-assessments. I haven't done that one. I'll check it out. But I did the the Clifton strengths a while ago. And I think what was really interesting to me was, you know, somewhat getting to know myself, but also the realization that not everybody thought about things the way that I did. And I I think that was really helpful, you know, just in general, but especially as a leader, like understanding the way that I might look at problems or try and address them is not how everybody on my team or the the people that I work with are going to, and being more open to kind of getting to know their approaches and as opposed to just thinking there's there's one way of doing things, and if I understand it this way, then this is the way that everybody else will approach it and understand it.
SPEAKER_01That's right. But that that is a great, that's a great point. I mean, we that's the beauty of doing something like an enneagram where you'll see, like we all come to this with totally different uh different ways of seeing the world. It's not just like solving a problem, it's like the way we see the world is fundamentally different. So when you understand that and there's conflict, um then you have more empathy to understand, okay, this is where this is the way Pete's coming into the room thinking about this. This is the way Danielle's coming into the room thinking about it. You know, what's Dolly think over there? It's like, you know, you can understand, oh, like if we if we if we need someone who's gonna be like the biggest skeptic, we're gonna go to this person because that's what they're you know, that's that's how they view the world. So that's a great. I'm sorry, I'm all over the place with this, but I think that's a great way to think about it. Um, especially when it comes to how do you get the best out of a team?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And then for me, kind of before doing that, I would find myself getting frustrated more easily because obviously people didn't have the same approach to to different things that I did. And it was like, well, why don't we just do this? But then you realize, okay, there's different ways. And then that's right, as you talk about in a team dynamic, you want to benefit from having diverse and inclusive teams and then understanding all the different ways that people can bring in different perspectives and getting them included and leveraging those differences that make this the team, the team stronger.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. And that's where um so many teams lose that ability to to innovate and look at things differently, especially when a when a leader, you know, we've all seen those leaders, like it's my way or the highway, it's we're gonna do it this way, but then you miss out on this opportunity to innovate because you're not you're not getting all the voices at the table uh in hearing all hearing all the voices.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, and then kind of going back to feedback, I I think that's so important. I think that's actually a real benefit that having a coach working with with the team can provide. Because even we do have, like you said, high psychological safety, high trust. It's still hard to give critical feedback and can be uncomfortable, especially with you know, if it's your manager or more senior person. And I think in our heads we might trivialize things like that. I think it's a great example. You said, right, you know, someone's not showing up for my one-on-one, or they're showing up late, or they're talking about other things, right? It's easy to be kind of in your head, like, hey, this is kind of like a trivial thing for me to have an issue with with this this senior leader, but then they're never getting that feedback. It's probably impacting other people that that they're working with. Um, but it's tricky to find channels to get that in and to have people give it because you do make yourself vulnerable and it it can feel uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, especially when uh there's different power dynamics. Like you said, it's your manager, it's the person who's deciding whether or not like there's a growth path for you. Like all of these things um come into play and they're very and they're real because some people really are not good at taking feedback.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And just because they're at, you know, they're up at the top of an organization does not mean uh it doesn't mean that they're a great leader and it doesn't mean that they're open to uh feedback or challenge. So that is, you know, those are those are often the hardest people to coach because they don't realize it. Um and they've, you know, and they've benefited from from rising into the role they're they're at, but they're at a you know, at a turning point where they can make impact, they can force impact or they can build a team that helps them uh gain impact, but it's it's not always easy. So the anonymous is a great way to do it, and then it's the coaches, you know, like the coaches having the conversation to say here's here's what you know, here's the general trend. It's not just Pete saying it. It is, you know, three out of your eight direct reports say you don't listen to other people's point of view, or three out of your eight direct report says you're you're averse to conflict. Um, yeah, it's good stuff that comes out of those.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And it is, I think it's hard taking feedback that we all say we want it, and I I would say the same, but I also recognize that I don't particularly enjoy in the moment getting constructive feedback, so that's kind of part of that challenge. Now, right. One of the things I'm curious about is it it seems like there's a little bit of a stereotype about leaders or lots of leaders that maybe struggle to take this kind of feedback or got to their positions by kind of taking charge and steamrolling other people. I guess one like, do you think that's kind of an accurate generalization? Like there are a decent number of people there, and why do you think that is? And you know, if we believe that leaders who are more open to feedback in these environments will ultimately be more successful, should we expect to see more there? Are we, you know, you have a great perspective working across lots of different leaders, curious to see what you've seen.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um I think I think that's a really good question. I would say that I can't answer it to say, you know, it's it's 50-50. But what I would say is that in purpose-driven organizations, uh, or mission-driven or purpose mission-driven organizations, uh there is such passion behind the the the thing that they're trying to accomplish that it's almost like uh people are more open to how can I do it better to get closer to that thing. But at the same time, um the old way of leading was fear control and you know, get the shit done on this at this time, this way. And that is not the world we live in anymore. So if people are still leading that way, which yes, there are people who are still leading that way, I don't coach those leader, those leaders because for a lot of reasons. One, they're not seeking coaching unless it's mandated by board work, right? Like they're not. Um and uh and at the end of the day, they won't change those those types of people unless they like really care um about doing it a different way, won't change. But I'm really interested in the people who who the leaders who really want to make work feel better because they understand when it does, better results come from that. Though those are the people that I really want to work with.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, make sense. Um, well, cool. Well, thanks for for sharing those insights. We'll we'll shift it up a little bit again here. We talked about how we both like to nerd out on um leadership coaching and all that stuff. So um, you know, we we share an appreciation for Frances Frey. I've had an opportunity to see some of her sessions through work and some other things. I know you're a big fan of hers and her sessions. Um, so maybe uh share a little bit about kind of what what from her work specifically inspires Spew and that that you try and use in your practice.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I love her. Um and uh she has office hours now open to the public on uh on Fridays that you can sign up for. And I love going to them um because she I'm very aligned with her style of leadership. Um, what I take away, and I have for years that I've been training people on is trust can be such a squishy feeling topic. Um, you know, like when you ask people, okay, what is trust? It takes, and I do this, you know, in probably every leadership offset I have. Let's talk about trust. It takes a long time for for folks to get to like what really is it? And um, and Francis has put together a framework that was really helpful, you know, the trust triangle. I'm sure you know about it, empathy, authenticity, and logic. And for me, it's like it's a game changer for teams to understand how they gain trust with their teammates and how they lose trust. She calls it the leadership while the the trust while um to me that's been a game changer to help people understand they have the power and where the power is to improve their relationships around trust.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. Well, cool. Any other um kind of people in the industry that that you follow that that inspire you or that should check out?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, well, I I uh I shared this with you already, but I'm gonna share the the 15 uh oh my god, what is it? The 15 commitments of conscious leadership.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Which uh to me that that is a really great, you know, we're we're talking about moving from that control and fear-based leadership to really being aware and conscious of the impact that you have as a leader. That book is great. It's the it's again 15 commitments of conscious leader leadership by the conscious leadership group. Um, I really like their stuff.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's good. I enjoyed that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. From from that, actually, um, I read a book by a woman named Lynn Twist. And this goes back to purpose. Um, it is uh her her latest book is called Living a Committed Life. And that to me is also it's not uh it's not a you know leadership book as all the other leadership books behind me, like I've got a ton of them all around the house. But to me, that's a really great book on how to live a more fulfilled and purposeful life. Um it's just it, and I think when you lead that way, uh, when you lead from uh the things that you're committed to, you know, life gets better.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's great. One of the things it was interesting that I thought of while you're kind of talking about this, and we've talked about purpose and work and all the values for you know our own satisfaction and also you know the success of the business being important. How do we sort of think about that in a when we build our identity and kind of our self-worth with that in an environment where a particular position may not be so so stable? And we may love our work and have purpose there, but it may sometimes not not love us back in the same way. Um, how do we sort of kind of balance those two those two different things?
SPEAKER_01So so help me help me understand the question. It's sure.
SPEAKER_00So let's say let's say you're in a role, you you have purpose there, it brings a lot of meaning to you. Um you find a lot of personal fulfillment there. And I think when we do that, we you know build up sort of our sense of self and our self-work and our worth and our identity as associated with that. And then let's say something changes through no fault of our own, where that that job is no longer there. Um, I think the the risk is that we lose a lot of our can lose a lot of our self-worth if that goes away. And how do we sort of balance those two things out where we want to be excited to be there, we want to feel purpose, we want to feel part of the organization and the team, but also knowing or maybe finding some other ways outside of that that we can uh have a more um an identity that we can take with us if that particular job is not there.
SPEAKER_01That that's a really great question. And I think it's a really important part of coaching, um, especially when I when I've coached leaders who who have run organizations and have either like retired or moved on to something different, uh, you know, from being at a CEO level to uh taking on a different role because you know, because the work um was too much for them or they wanted to shift gears. So I would say this. Um we do ourselves a disservice when our identity becomes the role that we have in an organization. And I and I and I really uh believe that it's easy to have that be our identity. Yeah, but what happens is though those things are all we know that they're they're temporary. They don't, it's very rare that someone sits in a role for you know 30 plus years or grow or an organization. So um I think it's a very hard question to answer, but what I will say is the work is how do you find identity outside of a role and more who Pete is as a human being and what's important to Pete. And and uh that's where some of the work I I see. People who are very unhappy in life are uh those are the ones who are so identified with a particular role that they forget who they are under the role. Yeah, and coaching could really help them uh understand you have value whether you're in the role that you're in or not, you have purpose whether you're in that role or or not. Does that make sense what I'm trying to do?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. No, I was just curious. Thanks for sharing your your take on that. Um it's a great question. Yeah, well, well, I think it's uh because it's such a balance, right? Because it there are positives with having that association with your work and that passion, but there's also risks, and then I think there can sometimes be risks to kind of our our the our work if that's the only sort of perspective that we're we're getting and the only identity we have. We don't have that same diversity of perspectives if if that's all we identify with. So I think having yeah other pursuits that are like work um outside of that or more a generalized um identity, which I think you were kind of talking about separate from the specific role that that you're in can help with that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it is it is you do get lift from it, right? Like when someone puts everything, all of their being into work, um yeah, they'll get results and they'll get burnout and likely later on in life we'll have a crisis of who am I? Who am I if this thing goes away, which it it often does. Um so yeah, great question.
SPEAKER_00And then I also I think it's also good to think about sort of seasons of life and work and things. So maybe there's a year or two where you really want to put your whole identity into a project work and that and I think that's that's great. But if you end up doing it for 30 years and then it's gone, it may feel pretty empty afterwards. So trying to balance those things out.
SPEAKER_01And and there's also uh there's also the loss that you can have in your personal life when you do that, you know, like I had I had a job that on paper was the the the sexiest job you can have. I traveled the world, I was on the road all the time, I loved it, I loved what I did, but it took away from my personal life. My personal life really suffered as a result of it. So, you know, as long as here's my big philosophy, as long as you're aware of what's happening and you're making the choice, you know, like you you're as long as you're aware of it and you're making the choice, then have at it. Um, but if you're if you're unaware and you're in that like state of I'm just going along and I'm like, you know, not fully conscious of what I'm choosing and why I'm choosing it, or I'm choosing it out of fear, then then likely like you have a problem. Um because you're not driving the driving it intentionally, like you're just letting life happen.
SPEAKER_00I think that's a really one one of the really important points is right, something looks really good on paper, not just to us, but you know, how we think about others perceive us. So if someone finds themselves in a situation like that where they have a job or role that looks really good on paper, but then they're coming to that realization that there are trade-offs that they're making that you know aren't necessarily aligned with with what they want, um how would you how would you recommend people go about kind of unpacking that and unwinding that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, there's so that's the beauty of coaching is um is helping people get clear on well first, what do you really want? You know, really getting clear on on the life that you want to create, and then uh really checking in, you know, like like are you are you on that path now? Um it's really you know, coaching is about asking the questions to unlock that that knowledge in in you to decide, okay, if I if if I've come to these realizations, what do I do with it? Um and then take steps to be able to uh change, change the things that they want to change and and double down on the things that are working really great. I don't know if that answered your question to that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, but no, it does. Not not an easy question to answer for sure.
SPEAKER_01You're great, you've got great questions. I love, I love uh, I love the the questions you're asking.
SPEAKER_00Cool. Well, great answers. So I'll go back to kind of the the coaching bit. Um, so how is it, you know, you sometimes you're coaching individuals, maybe you're coaching an individual leader, but you're also, you know, sometimes coaching teams are coaching the doing a mix of the two. How is coaching a team different than coaching an individual?
SPEAKER_01First, I absolutely love coaching teams. I love it. Um, I I will often do them in conjunction, and most times I do. Um, and the the difference is really you are trying to get a group of people to function at the highest level that they can together. And we're and we've talked about this earlier. You know, you're you've got all these different personalities and all of these different people coming to the table. Um, so what I love most about it is, you know, when you're coaching a team, it's what are we trying to accomplish together? Are we all clear on that? Oftentimes you'll you'll know, like you get really quick wins when you're coaching a team because that first part isn't clear.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um so it really is about alignment on what are the goals, what are our priorities, and how can we best work together to accomplish them. Um, and and what I really love is is building like how does a team build trust? So that's a big part of coaching a team. Trust is, as Francis would say, it is the foundation of everything. So um, so really helping a team build trust and understand where their wobbles are with each other is is some of the most rewarding work because when you have high trust on a team, then the team could do amazing things together. Um, you know, they lean into conflict. I know I've got a great team, a team that's really committed to growing when they can have conflict with each other. And I don't mean, you know, I don't mean uh destructive conflict, I mean constructive conflict. Like how do we how do we make this thing that we want to do the best we can with all these different points of view and have heated discussions about it before we decide what's what what what action we're gonna take? Those are those are the most rewarding, like seeing a team go from not be able to have conflict to that conflict is so rewarding. I love it.
SPEAKER_00So if you have a team that's not having conflict of any sort, of sort of open, you know, discussions pushing back on things like that, would you say that's that's potentially a a warning sign to to look out for? Yes.
SPEAKER_01When when when people don't uh you know, when you ask a question like um to a room, oh, is everybody on board? And everyone's like, mm-hmm, yeah. That to me is uh if that is the general theme of your meetings, then you're not really having the the tough conversations. You have a bunch of people who are who want to be compliant, who want to go, you know, who wanna who are who wanna go along to get along versus do great things together. Um and I know I'm generalizing, but yeah, but I would tell you that based on my experience, a majority of people don't tell the truth in the room right now. And your work as a leader is what are some steps I could take to get more of the truth? Um and you can do some really simple things to set that up. Of course, it's you know, um people have to feel safe enough, but ask asking a question like, is there something that we can do differently that will get us better results right now? You know, just reflection questions on the team and going around the room, you know, like if people don't have a tendency of talking, go around the room and one thing you would if you were me, what's one thing you would do as the leader of this team to get better results? Or if you were me, what's one thing you would do on this team to increase our level of trust with one another?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's great. I I love that. Yeah, and I I think especially if you have a a team or a room where you're not getting that active uh participation, sort of forcing people in a way to do it. And but I also like the framing of those questions because they're a very like positive get better type approach as opposed to what's wrong or you know, yeah, make making it put framing it in that light. Um, well, cool. We chatted for a while, so I'll try and get a get a few to wrap it up. But if if people are kind of interested in learning more about um leadership coaching and things like that, and we'll get to to kind of you specifically, but kind of in general, like what are some other you know, books or podcasts or things that you recommended? We talked about a few already, but I don't know if there's any any others that you would recommend people check out.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god, I've read a lot of books.
SPEAKER_00I'm just gonna say um yes, that's that's what happens, right? They all kind of blur together.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, leadership unblocked, okay. Uh by uh Muriel Wilkins. So leadership unblocked. It's great. She she actually does a great job of explaining what it feels like to be in a coaching relationship with a coach. Um she helps people understand what what some of their biggest blocks are because that because that's the thing. We all have limiting beliefs that we're not aware of, or we all have stories that we tell ourselves that that don't necessarily serve us. And that book is a great way of you can see how she goes through um with her clients and helps them uh uh unblock these areas that are that are that are holding them back from from being the best leaders that they can be.
SPEAKER_00Okay, cool. Yeah, and we'll I'll put all the links together and we we can put it in the uh in the in the notes so people can find it. But um, and then for you, where can people find you and you know some of the the details about the methods that that you use?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um, well, they can uh find out about my lift model, the framework that I use for coaching, uh, with the four key areas of of how to build a high performing team uh on my website. And I can give you all those links to share um as well as LinkedIn. Um there's there's plenty of information there on my uh on my LinkedIn page on on my philosophy on how to build a high performing team. Um and it's yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, awesome. Well, thanks for sharing that. Um anything else you want to touch on before we wrap up?
SPEAKER_01No, I I just I it was a great conversation. I love I love your um the questions that you asked. And also I love that we can have this dialogue about you know about teams. I know how passionate you are about about leading leading your team well. And um, so it's just really fun to have these conversations. Anytime you want to have more, please.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. We'll see how much appetite there is to hear us nerd out about um leadership and team coaching and all that. So yeah, thanks so much, Danny. This was this was great. One last thing. Hope you enjoyed the episode with Danny. Lots of great insights. We had uh a wonderful time chatting. I hope you enjoyed it. Uh, if you like the content, please like and subscribe. Uh, follow the the channel in all various formats. You can check out my newsletter at peterdempseywrights.com. And until next time, good luck in your journey at work and in life.