Unlearning The Old Rules Of Being A Man

If you’ve ever looked at your life and wondered, “How much of me is really me?” This conversation goes straight to the root. We pick up Pt. 2 of Wise Black Pearl with Maceo Keeling as we talk about manhood, masculinity, and the quiet work of unlearning the patterns we inherited. Some lessons from family are priceless, and some are simply not true to our nature. We explore what it means to find our true north and why faith and values matter when life gets loud. How growth can feel like betrayal until you realize it’s actually honesty.

We also get practical about fatherhood and parenting. One question flips the mirror toward all of us: If your child copied your behavior exactly, what future would they inherit? From there we break down presence as a skill, not a catchphrase, including listening to understand, reflecting back what we hear, and learning to apologize without defense. The goal isn’t to rear clones; it’s building a launch pad that helps our children become more, know more, and carry an unshakable joy.

Then we move into identity, purpose, and resilience. We talk “lie identity” versus real identity, finding your ikigai, and what to do when disrespect shows up at your door. Maceo shares a story about inheritance that isn’t about money or possessions, but about backbone, resolve, and legacy. The takeaway is simple and hard: If everything were to fall away, can you still choose to start again.

If this hit home, subscribe, share it with someone who needs it. Leave a review so more people can find the conversation. What’s one belief you’re ready to unlearn?  

See more, Be more, Do more, Have more!

Transcript

Series Return And Manhood Shifts

SPEAKER_03 0:16

Welcome back to Why is Black Pearl, part two of an amazing series, I should say. And um the last time we spoke, you know, we talk about what does it mean being a man to you and who gives you the definition. And one of the things you said is manhood changes from time to time, right?

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Your understanding of what it is to be a man changes from time to time. Um I I think I mentioned as a child I wanted to be exactly like my dad. And over time, uh, I think based on one of your questions, uh, I really realized that I had to unlearn some of the things that I learned by his example. Yeah, because they were not true to my nature. And so as we develop, um, the crucial thing, the critical thing, uh, as we move forward in making that determination is what's our true north? What's our anchor? Right. Where where are we operating from? And I think personally that we require a faith that's bigger than ourselves and care for something that's outside of ourselves to help shape uh that part of who we are and what we become as men.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

That is good. Like a lot of things from from our parents, you know, that has been passed on to us, some things we have to unlearn. And, you know, unlearning some of those things is like the hardest process because it became such a fabric in our lives, it is hard to transition to something new.

Unlearning Family Scripts With Faith

SPEAKER_01 2:04

And you know, you know, there's a difference between tradition and what's traditional. Yeah. And oftentimes when we seek something more or different than what our parents or grandparents fed us, uh there's some voice inside of us that makes it feel like it's betrayal. Yeah. Um, the irony is those are the very moments that our parents hope we would discover and uncover who we are, wholly apart from who they are. And for me as a parent, I mentioned earlier I have two sons, Mace, Yo, and Baron. They are very impressive. And I could not be more proud of them in every way. I mean, there is no man walking that has sons that they are more proud of than I am of my sons. So that's good, man.

SPEAKER_03 3:08

That's really good. Yeah. And sometimes, you know, kids such as your son, when they were kids, a lot of times they don't understand the method behind the madness of what it is to parent a child and let that child become an adult and achieve great things that they want to. So, with that said, if your child lived exactly like you, what future would they inherit?

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Uh, that is a very interesting question. If they behaved exactly like me or copied my behavior, early on, I think it would be flattering.

SPEAKER_04 3:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

But as they developed, it would become concerning for me. Very, very concerning, very challenging for me, because they have their own identity, they have their own life experiences. I am certainly not perfect, and I know that I speak from the deepest part of me that I want them to have more, be more, understand more than I do. Yeah. So I've I view my parenting as a launch pad for them and to catapult them into their own sense of identity and sense of what is right and wrong and what they can anchor their faith in. They would inherit some foundational things, yeah, but more than that, they would inherit an enthusiasm and a curiosity about life that sustains a joy. Right. An unshakable joy, an unflappable joy. That would be their inheritance. That's good for me.

Parenting As A Launch Pad

SPEAKER_03 4:59

Yeah, that is good. Also, you know, parents do the best they can, and a lot of time kids don't understand parents being stern at time or quote unquote harsh. At times when they have kids of their own, you know, they understand what it is to be parent, and it gives them a profound appreciation for their own parents. And we will never get it right. We will be wrong sometimes, we will be right sometimes. That's life, it's give and take. But when it comes to your kids or anyone, is there anything that you would convey to them that would change the directory of their lives in a way it might be, they might feel offended about it. And if they do, can you apologize without defense and forgive without control?

SPEAKER_01 5:50

You know, that's an interesting question that I have some experience in. I remember once in a conversation, my father was very emphatic about a particular way to move.

SPEAKER_04 6:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

For me to move in my life. And I said to him, I don't agree with you. And he said, Well, I I've been doing this 30 years. I was a grown man when you were born. I got you, you didn't get me. Yeah. And uh those kinds of conversations really caused me to recoil and withdraw. But one of the things that I think made the difference was how he responded to me.

SPEAKER_04 6:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

He said, he sat quietly for a long moment, and then he said, You know, son, he really didn't have to go beyond that. He said, You know, son, if I somehow have led you wrong, it was with a righteous intent. And the Lord will cover me and show favor to you for my shortcomings. So if I'm wrong on this, know that you will be all right for my prayer's sake. And I thought, I'm sorry. Because clearly, uh, you know, how how do you respond to that?

SPEAKER_04 7:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

He basically said, I'm doing the very best I can all the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

It's like charge it to my head, not my heart, kind of thing.

Apologizing Without Defense

SPEAKER_01 7:32

If you fault me for doing the best I can all the time, shame on you. Yeah. You know, so so yeah, they would they would inherit a joy and a love. And yes, I could apologize without explanation because I know my heart. Yeah. And they've been around me long enough to know my heart. And so absolutely I could apologize and not explain. Because guess who's going to be the ultimate teacher that affirms the truth that I offer to them? It's them continuing to live and learn. My father used to tell me, it'll come to you. You just keep living. It'll be there. It's coming. It's coming. It's coming. And see, that's and that's why I refer when you ask me what was the most important thing I can give them. It's it's a gift. It's it's a gift of my presence.

SPEAKER_04 8:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

And, you know, we use that word a lot nowadays about being present and presence. But you know, to be present means to not be fidgeting with your phone when they're trying to have a conversation with you.

SPEAKER_04 8:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Being present means listening, taking a moment to pause, unpack what you think you heard, mirror it if you have to. Go back and say again in the way that you understood it. So they can hear what you heard what you understood, and then respond.

SPEAKER_04 9:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

Okay. And that's a process. It's a process that's overlooked as we rush to speak. So many of us are waiting for our opportunity to speak, waiting for our turn.

SPEAKER_04 9:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

But the objective is to listen to understand. I was brought up in a in a Christian family, and the Bible was the cornerstone of our of our teaching. And uh there's a verse in the Bible that says, In all thy getting, get an understanding. Well, if I'm thinking about the past hurt, or looking forward to a future that does or does not include you, I am not present.

SPEAKER_03 10:04

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

And so when you hear the term presence, at least coming from my mouth, it's understanding that there's a time to hear. In fact, I wrote an article a few years ago called Listen Silent. And if you know what an anagram is, an anagram is a word that when you mix up the letters, they spell something else. All the letters in the word listen are in the word silent.

Presence And The Discipline Of Listening

SPEAKER_03 10:38

Yeah, dig that. Oh, that's a sage. That's a sage um gemroid. All right, all right, all right. And this is um, this is exactly telling people the reason and the purpose behind wise black pearl. And with you, with you doing this, giving back to those who are in need, what what are you becoming when nobody's watching?

SPEAKER_01 11:06

When no one watches, when you, in your most private, intimate moments, look into the mirror and you have to confront the person who's staring back at you. For me, it is an imperative that I feel good about what I see. You know, all too often we buy into um a lidentity.

unknown 11:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

That's a word that I got from Myron Golden, uh, one of his podcasts. He talks about identity, my identity, and lie identity. I don't know where he got it, but the world tries to tell you who you are. They try to define who you are, what you're capable of. Sometimes your loving family attempt to tell you what you can do with which limits you from the very thing you were sent to do.

SPEAKER_04 12:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

That's a lie identity. It's a lie about who you are and what you are and what you're capable of. That speaks to the core of why it's important to determine what your personal relationship looks like with one who is greater than you. Once you can make that determination, you then in fact are approaching your identity, your your icky guy. I talk about icky guy. You know, your your your reason for being. And I think that is born out of listening to that little voice that's inside of you, listening to those yearnings that have brought me to a place where I can no longer hold this inside of me. I'm working on obviously the podcast. Yeah. Um, working on some books and workshops that I want to share that are a bridge or liaison between fathers and sons who have been estranged. Um any anyone that needs a bridge to uh fortify their level of communication, um, this will be an excellent tool that's in my toolbox that I'm willing to share because we need each other more now than we ever have before.

SPEAKER_03 13:42

Man, that is true. We do need, we do need each other more now than ever before, man. A lot of us that have you know great intention to do great things, not for ourselves, but for others. And when we do things for others, we gain that success from giving, right? Because the gift and talents that we have is not for ourselves, it's for others. And by being a blessing to others, that makes us a blessing. And sometimes people do not get what that is, and their approach to you might be in a way that you don't like or you don't appreciate. So, in those moments, who are you when disrespected and what does that reveal about not only yourself but the person?

SPEAKER_01 14:34

So your your question is about disrespect, how how I might react. Yeah. Um that's pretty easy. Each one of us has our idea of what's respectful and what's disrespectful.

SPEAKER_03 14:46

Right.

Identity Versus Lie Identity

SPEAKER_01 14:47

And many of us agree on a common ground of what is respectful and what isn't, what's rude and what's impolite. I really don't fret when someone feels that they are attacking, because if they get acid in their blood, it destroys them, not me. That's point one. Point number two, when you talk about disrespect, you can't disrespect me unless I allow you to disrespect me. You can call me a bunch of names, but there has to be something in me that's willing to receive that of you in order to have a visceral response or personal response. Now, Shakespeare had a good point when he said he who steals my purse steals nothing, but he who steals my good name, that is substantial.

SPEAKER_04 15:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

So uh if you're talking about someone that front me on the street, clowning, you know, feeling like they want to flex on me, and and I I see that. Well, first I understand that they're coming from a malicious and premeditated place that I'm not prepared for. So I'm more inclined to take a step back, allow it to flow in whatever direction it needs to flow, and pray that they didn't mistake this cool veneer for someone who is passive or unwilling to risk it all. But I choose my battles, I choose my principles, and I choose the situations that I find myself in to determine is this a hill that I want to fight on?

SPEAKER_04 16:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

You know, and at my age, I don't fight anymore, I just terminate the problem.

SPEAKER_03 16:56

Wow. Yeah, that is honestly, that is that is the mature thing to do, you know. Like, why waste energy trying to trying to win an argument? It's not my energy. You know, exactly. Like there are so many, so many other ways that I can use my energy that would benefit me and benefit somebody else, you know. And a lot of us get into this space because we have something to give, you know, whether it's a word of advice, whether it's blueprint to a thing that you want to do. And some of us do it for the right reasons, and some of us do it for the wrong reasons. So are you are you doing this to raise approval or to have appreciation or to give something of value?

Disrespect, Boundaries, And Choosing Battles

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Again, uh, I was very close with my father, and he used to say this thing to me that really drove me crazy. He would say, I got mine, you got to get yours. You know, I don't get better because I'm sharing this with you. I'm doing it to help you get better. So, to your question, what's my motivation right now? Yeah, my motivation is to touch someone who's open, who has a need, who is willing to embrace what I've come to understand as a truth. And if I can touch that person and encourage them along the way, then my work will not have been in vain. Yeah. Um, I don't need applause. I don't even need to get paid. I want to let that sink in. Let me tell you a little story. Oh, yeah. When my father passed um a few years ago, we we prepared a a a go and went home ceremony, and he didn't leave me any any stuff. Yeah. He had some jewelry, he had some rings, he had some suits, he had some stuff, he had some some some guns and stuff. He had a lot of stuff. He was doing all right. And as the only son of seven children, I thought I'd get everything that was his. And when he passed, I was livid. I was livid because I didn't get anything. Wow. And I remained angry for several months. And when I was just about to burst with frustration and anger, it was eating me up. I said, you know what? And I used some foul language and I said, I don't care. I don't need his stuff. I can get all of it on my own. In fact, I already got it, and in that moment, yeah, in that moment, I realized that he had left me my balls, my backbone, my resolve, his example, and those were the cornerstones of my inheritance.

SPEAKER_04 20:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

It was his legacy that washed over me, that made me know I can do all things through my faith. Because he showed me that.

SPEAKER_04 20:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

And he didn't have big paper, he didn't make a lot of money, he wasn't able to, you know, flex and roll Lambos and that type of thing. He was a man among men. And that is an illustration of what we need in our homes today, in our lives today, in the friends that we choose. Someone who's willing to ride with us till the wheels fall off when we're right, and will stand and admonish us when we are wrong.

SPEAKER_04 21:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

That's love. And that was my inheritance.

SPEAKER_03 21:41

Wow. And that shaped the person that you have become and are still becoming.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

I continue. Yeah. I continue to pour into myself in a way that I think not only serves me and serves my creator. Serves the legacy of my parents try to instill in me as well.

SPEAKER_03 22:04

Hmm. That is good. That right there is raising the bar, you know, for not just you, but for me and other listeners that are listening. It should raise the bar, raise the standards, you know. Like, where do your standards for others exceed your standards for yourself? That doesn't happen.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

First off, I don't have expectations of others. I let people do their thing because I'm doing my thing. I think that's the cornerstone of respect. If you want a definition of respect, it's understanding that we're different and allowing people the space to be who they are and holding space for their differences.

SPEAKER_04 22:46

Yeah.

The Inheritance That Isn’t Stuff

SPEAKER_01 22:46

Okay. Now, when you talk about what do I expect from someone else that I don't expect from myself, well, that's an impossibility. As a matter of fact, it's I'm doing all I can to just meet my own expectations of myself. I mean, occasionally I let myself down. This particular interview is to restart an effort that I started in June of 2024. I would imagine that I would have exponentially more content than I have. But this is what happens in the privacy and in the solitude of my own thoughts. I look in the mirror and I ask myself the tough question. The question that many of us are so willing to ask someone else, but not willing to ask ourselves. And that is, what am I doing to sabotage my own situation? What am I doing to ambush the process? What am I failing to do in order to usher this process forward? And those answers come hard and they come quickly. And so what I do in the privacy of my own thoughts is put a foot in my own ass. You know, and uh with that wake-up call, then I am reanimated, re-energized. I start to anticipate great things instead of having anxiety about what I haven't done.

SPEAKER_03 24:28

Wow, that is good. That is good. And that is another way that we that we grow. You know, they say in order for a problem to be solved within yourself, you first have to admit that there is a problem. And if you don't admit that there is a problem, then there's nothing that no one can do for you because you don't want to do the work, take the first step. Hey, I have a problem. What do I need to do to fix it? What are the steps I need to take to get it, you know, to get it done? But for those who accept that there is, you know, a problem in their lives, and problem really doesn't mean a bad thing. Most times problems are stepping stones. Exactly. And once you solve that puzzle, it becomes a stepping stone for you to get to the next level and the next level. And that's how that's how success works, right? But if everything falls away, what part of you would still stand?

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Again, I'm 67 years old. Yeah that's happened to me a couple times. And so I can tell you with certainty, what isn't shaken is my joy. What isn't shaken is my faith. Yeah. What isn't shaken is my confidence that I am going to bounce. Everybody takes a fall. Some people get knocked down, but that doesn't mean they get knocked out.

SPEAKER_04 25:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

And so I've lost restaurants, I've lost homes, I've lost vehicles, I've lost loves, I've lost my parents. And many of those experiences left me feeling like I had lost it all. And when I went in the mirror and looked into my own face and asked the question, well, what am I going to do now? It was just a one-word answer. Start. You know, you don't have to be great to get started, but you do have to start to become great. Oh.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

That's a bar. That's a bar. That is a bar.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Okay. Well, I I appreciate that, Michael. That's just my get down.

SPEAKER_03 27:06

Yeah.

unknown 27:07

So.

Self-Sabotage, Resilience, And Starting

SPEAKER_03 27:08

Yeah. Wow. And that is it for everybody because, you know, for people out there that admire other people, whether it's um entrepreneurs, athletes, whoever, people of prominent status, they are just ordinary people that was willing to sacrifice the comfort in order to be extraordinary. That's it. And they have the same 24 hours that we all have, and they choose to do the same thing that you just mentioned. Just start.

unknown 27:42

Start.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

Just start. And this is a great start of what is to come. And I am, man, I'm happy and I'm looking forward to see the continuation and the success of this podcast. So, man, I would like to thank you for having me, you know, to come and ask you these deep dive questions. Not letting people into your quote unquote home, but letting them into a part of your soul.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

You had a little headache. I have a little headache, man. I, you know, I you know it's something that that most people that know me would would argue um with me about. I am deeply uh introspective, and I hold myself as an introvert who operates as an extrovert. I don't meet strangers. I reach out to people unsolicited because there's something in me that feels that I have a word or a gift or a laugh, a smile, a blessing, something that I can do to lift them up. That's that's how I move, you know. I I move miracles that way.

SPEAKER_04 29:05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

At the same time, it is exhausting, and I am much more content in my garden, fellowshipping in the earth, sowing seeds, watching them grow, making noise, making noise with my taxophone. It doesn't it doesn't need to ring pleasant to anyone else's ear.

SPEAKER_04 29:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

You know, I I do those things for me. And they're very soothing and they're very important, and so it's it's just how I choose to get down. But some things are far too valuable to keep inside. Right. And that's the pressure of my purpose leaking out of me. So like I said, a book, journey to goat mountain, uh, a workbook. I I also write erotica. I mean, I'll be I'll be I'll be publishing some some uh romance novels for for elders. Nice, you know, nice uh because we're alive, we're moving.

SPEAKER_04 30:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

So uh shout out to all those people who've read some of my some of my stuff. Yes, indeed. I'm looking forward to uh doing quite a bit more of it.

SPEAKER_04 30:37

But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

But no, just a peek, just a peek inside uh inside Mace O Land.

Private Life, Creative Work, Purpose Pressure

SPEAKER_03 30:44

So I'm inside my get down. The get down. Lastly, is there anything else you would like to let the people know, like where can they find you, how can they find you, and how can they also get involved and be a part of the journey?

SPEAKER_01 31:02

Of course, uh on my website, uh Wise Black Pearls, there's a button that says fan mail. So I'm going to use that as my interface for uh Ask Uncle Macio if there's some question you may have about manhood, masculinity, parenting, uh, being head of household, a man of the house, then you can reach me through that, my uh fan mail on that website. Uh, you can also uh send an email to Keeling K-E-E-L-I-N-G at a o l dot com. That's my old school email address. Shows you how long I've been in the email game. I still have a hot mail, so I you know but but the main thing, the main thing is look out for me. Yeah, subscribe. Umscribe. And um join the join the the movement uh from the streets back to our homes.

SPEAKER_04 32:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Um there was an interview with Nikki Giovanni and James Baldwin where where Nikki said you know, you go to work every day, that you do a job that you don't like, that grin and smile at a boss that you don't like. Uh-huh. If you can't do that for the mother of your children, if you can't do that for your children themselves, just show up and let them see the effort. It's not always about the outcome. More often than not, it's about the effort, the sacrifice that affirms the love that you say you have for them.

SPEAKER_04 33:20

Yeah.

How To Reach Him And Return Home

SPEAKER_01 33:21

That is the glue that holds the family together. And I know that there are some political barriers, there's some legal constraints, there's all kinds of challenges to getting back to our homes. But we find a way around everything else. So one of my heroes is Diana Nayad. She's the lady that that swam from Cuba to Miami. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. She said, you find a way. That's also a lesson that I learned from my beautiful sisters and my mother. We never quit. You find a way. My father used to tell me, and I told my sons, failure is not an option. Okay. And so when you make a decision, when you cut yourself off from any other alternative except success, then that is the only outcome. So input the behaviors that will lead to success, and you will have it. And finally, I would be remiss if I didn't speak on love for a moment. I crafted this definition of love in June of 1984, just before my son was born, my first son, and um, it goes like this love is a decision to commit, and then committing to a set of behaviors or actions and deeds that support and encourage the other person to take risks. When you take those risks to become the best person that you can become with me or without me. And that's an important part. You're not lifting someone up for them to be tied to you, you're lifting them up so that they can walk and not tire, so they can run and not fate. So they'll take up wings and fly above the fray into their purpose. That is what love is for me. So with that, I think we're at a healthy and honest pause. And uh, Michael, you're an incredible cat. Um, tell us again about your podcast, man.

Love As A Decision And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_03 36:12

Man, thank you again for this opportunity for having me to come on your podcast as a host, introducing you to the world so the world can know who Macy O'Keeling is and what the wise black pearl is. That's amazing, man. But for my podcast, it's called the Maintenance Diaries Podcast, and you can catch us on YouTube and everywhere where you stream your podcasts. And once again, thank you for me hosting this. This is it was very insightful, um, had a lot of nuggets in there, a lot of gems, and to the ears that are listening and the eyes that are watching, they will definitely have something of great value and they will benefit from it. And I hope that they are that they apply it to their lives so they can become better pearls in their own right.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

And remember, you don't have to be great when you get started, but you do have to start to become great.

SPEAKER_03 37:14

Hey, yes, indeed. Yes, indeed, man. Appreciate you, Mike. Yes, sir. Appreciate you too, everybody. Don't forget to like this podcast, like the episode, share it, subscribe, tell a friend to tell a friend, get the word out, and let us continue to lift each other up and spread joy because love conquers a multitude. So let us spread love, let us give love. Once again, thank you very much. Catch you guys on the next one. Have a great one. Peace.