{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":14.08,"endTime":14.552,"body":"Hey, writers."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":14.558,"endTime":16.422,"body":"Welcome back to Story Magic, the podcast that"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":16.446,"endTime":18.558,"body":"will help you write a book you're damn proud"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":16.446,"endTime":18.558,"body":"of."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":18.694,"endTime":19.502,"body":"I'm Rachel."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":19.606,"endTime":20.702,"body":"And I'm Emily."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":20.846,"endTime":25.054,"body":"And today we are talking about failing"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":20.846,"endTime":25.054,"body":"at writing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":25.182,"endTime":28.03,"body":"We're going to talk about lowering your"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":25.182,"endTime":28.03,"body":"writing expectations."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":28.11,"endTime":29.91,"body":"It's going to be a wonderful conversation."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":29.99,"endTime":32.466,"body":"And we're joined by our very special guest,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":32.578,"endTime":33.578,"body":"Rachel Herron."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":33.634,"endTime":35.722,"body":"So, Rachel, thank you so much for joining us"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":35.746,"endTime":36.362,"body":"today."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":36.546,"endTime":38.41,"body":"I am so thrilled to be here"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":36.546,"endTime":38.41,"body":"with you, too."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":38.45,"endTime":40.546,"body":"And this is one of my favorite topics to talk"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":38.45,"endTime":40.546,"body":"about."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":40.578,"endTime":42.202,"body":"So let's do it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":42.346,"endTime":43.602,"body":"Let's do it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":43.786,"endTime":46.394,"body":"Before we jump in, could you share a little"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":46.442,"endTime":51.946,"body":"bit about yourself, introduce yourself to our"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":46.442,"endTime":51.946,"body":"listeners and how we what do you do?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":52.018,"endTime":53.506,"body":"What do you do in the writing sphere?"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":53.618,"endTime":57.37,"body":"What do I do?"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":53.618,"endTime":57.37,"body":"I have been writing for a while."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":57.45,"endTime":65.688,"body":"I think I'm around 30 ish books by now, and"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":57.45,"endTime":65.688,"body":"those are mostly traditional published, but"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":65.704,"endTime":70.152,"body":"some self published as I get the rights back"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":65.704,"endTime":70.152,"body":"to my older, traditionally published books."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":70.176,"endTime":72.1,"body":"And I self published those ones."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":72.68,"endTime":77.592,"body":"I got into this gig by getting a master of"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":77.616,"endTime":83.256,"body":"fine arts in creative writing and then"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":77.616,"endTime":83.256,"body":"absolutely failing to write anything or"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":83.288,"endTime":83.984,"body":"complete anything."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":84.032,"endTime":85.656,"body":"I wrote quite a bit, but I failed to complete"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":85.688,"endTime":92.19,"body":"anything for about seven years because I was"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":85.688,"endTime":92.19,"body":"just, like, so hammered down by academia."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":92.53,"endTime":99.026,"body":"And then I found NaNowriMo, which, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":92.53,"endTime":99.026,"body":"has problems this year."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":99.138,"endTime":100.442,"body":"We don't need to go into that."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":100.586,"endTime":102.386,"body":"But NaNoWriMo, national Novel writing month"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":102.418,"endTime":109.762,"body":"really helped me learn that I, like 98.9% of"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":102.418,"endTime":109.762,"body":"all other writers, need to write a crappy"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":109.786,"endTime":113.762,"body":"first draft before I even know what the book"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":109.786,"endTime":113.762,"body":"might be about and then start revising it."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":113.786,"endTime":117.162,"body":"So I learned there in 2006."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":117.186,"endTime":118.15,"body":"I wrote my first."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":118.53,"endTime":119.306,"body":"I finished."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":119.338,"endTime":120.922,"body":"I wrote the end for the first time."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":120.946,"endTime":126.242,"body":"I think I'd started at least three other books"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":120.946,"endTime":126.242,"body":"before then and had never finished anything"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":126.346,"endTime":126.778,"body":"but that one."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":126.794,"endTime":130.25,"body":"I finished, and I was shocked to find that the"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":130.29,"endTime":135.482,"body":"faster I wrote and the more I lowered my"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":130.29,"endTime":135.482,"body":"expectations about my writing, the better I"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":135.506,"endTime":136.562,"body":"actually wrote."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":136.706,"endTime":138.77,"body":"And so that was the first book that I cleaned"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":138.81,"endTime":140.082,"body":"up and I sent out."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":140.226,"endTime":143.01,"body":"I sent it out in query letters to agents, and"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":143.05,"endTime":149.716,"body":"I got my agent, and in the fairy tale dream"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":143.05,"endTime":149.716,"body":"come true, she sold it at auction in a three"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":149.748,"endTime":151.364,"body":"book deal to HarperCollins."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":151.532,"endTime":152.964,"body":"And that's how it all started."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":153.012,"endTime":156.236,"body":"So that was in 2008 was when I signed with"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":153.012,"endTime":156.236,"body":"her, and she sold it."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":156.348,"endTime":158.396,"body":"And then my first book came out in 2010."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":158.468,"endTime":159.92,"body":"So that was 14 years ago."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":160.3,"endTime":161.668,"body":"And since then I've been."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":161.844,"endTime":163.844,"body":"2010 was 14 years ago."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":163.972,"endTime":164.72,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":165.3,"endTime":169.956,"body":"My brain was just like, that's amazing,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":165.3,"endTime":169.956,"body":"though."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":170.028,"endTime":171.716,"body":"I love how long a track record."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":171.788,"endTime":179.832,"body":"You have in this so since"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":171.788,"endTime":179.832,"body":"then, I've written memoir, regular mainstream"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":179.936,"endTime":188.336,"body":"contemporary lit, family fiction, romance, a"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":179.936,"endTime":188.336,"body":"couple of thrillers for Penguin, a couple of"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":188.368,"endTime":195.22,"body":"writing books, and I'm entering paranormal"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":188.368,"endTime":195.22,"body":"queer women's fiction next year with Hachette."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":195.52,"endTime":196.08,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":196.16,"endTime":197.38,"body":"That's awesome."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":198.16,"endTime":203.14,"body":"In a word, prolific is a good word to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":198.16,"endTime":203.14,"body":"describe you."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":203.77,"endTime":204.658,"body":"Or ADHD."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":204.714,"endTime":205.87,"body":"That's another good word."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":206.49,"endTime":207.45,"body":"Love it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":207.61,"endTime":210.75,"body":"I have a badge of honor for ADHD, too."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":211.05,"endTime":211.95,"body":"Love it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":212.37,"endTime":213.53,"body":"You're doing twelve things at once."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":213.57,"endTime":214.274,"body":"You just can't stop."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":214.322,"endTime":214.754,"body":"You gotta."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":214.802,"endTime":215.946,"body":"Yeah. You embrace it."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":215.978,"endTime":216.506,"body":"You embrace it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":216.538,"endTime":222.506,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. So when we were wanting to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":216.538,"endTime":222.506,"body":"talk to you, we were trying to figure out what"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":222.618,"endTime":228.018,"body":"to talk about, really, because you're also an"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":222.618,"endTime":228.018,"body":"incredible host of another podcast called Ink"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":228.034,"endTime":234.47,"body":"in your veins, and it is so widely listened to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":228.034,"endTime":234.47,"body":"and it has such an incredible backlist."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":234.95,"endTime":239.902,"body":"We're both in agreement when we say you're an"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":234.95,"endTime":239.902,"body":"expert in this field and we're honored to have"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":239.926,"endTime":241.622,"body":"you as a guest on the podcast."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":241.766,"endTime":244.23,"body":"But there was so much for us to talk about,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":244.27,"endTime":247.83,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":244.27,"endTime":247.83,"body":"And as we were discussing right before this"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":247.87,"endTime":250.61,"body":"call, we were trying to decide what are we"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":247.87,"endTime":250.61,"body":"going to tackle today?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":251.23,"endTime":257.846,"body":"And we started to talk about the idea of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":251.23,"endTime":257.846,"body":"writing process and of failing in your"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":257.878,"endTime":263.278,"body":"writing, because I saw this episode in your"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":257.878,"endTime":263.278,"body":"backlist and it just latched onto my brain"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":263.414,"endTime":269.074,"body":"because in our tenacious writing program in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":263.414,"endTime":269.074,"body":"the month of September, we've been hosting our"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":269.122,"endTime":273.07,"body":"workshop, which we periodically do called"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":269.122,"endTime":273.07,"body":"build a sustainable writing routine."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":273.41,"endTime":279.53,"body":"And it's all about examining the hustle,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":273.41,"endTime":279.53,"body":"culture, beliefs, perfectionism, basically the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":279.57,"endTime":283.63,"body":"mindset that it takes to develop"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":279.57,"endTime":283.63,"body":"sustainability and consistency."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":284.53,"endTime":287.122,"body":"And it's an incredible workshop."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":287.186,"endTime":290.13,"body":"Our writers have been doing a fantastic job"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":290.29,"endTime":294.546,"body":"really probing what are the beliefs that they"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":290.29,"endTime":294.546,"body":"hold and how are they showing up as"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":294.578,"endTime":295.43,"body":"roadblocks."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":295.99,"endTime":299.102,"body":"And we had one of our calls yesterday and we"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":299.126,"endTime":302.63,"body":"were talking about lowering your expectations."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":302.71,"endTime":305.286,"body":"I brought this question to our group and I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":305.318,"endTime":311.102,"body":"said, if I say everybody, you should lower"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":305.318,"endTime":311.102,"body":"your writing expectations, how does that make"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":311.126,"endTime":314.11,"body":"you feel?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":311.126,"endTime":314.11,"body":"And you could just see on their faces this"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":314.15,"endTime":322.006,"body":"like intense, visceral reaction of like, no,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":314.15,"endTime":322.006,"body":"absolutely not."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":322.118,"endTime":322.902,"body":"I will not do that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":322.926,"endTime":323.654,"body":"How dare you?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":323.742,"endTime":326.454,"body":"How dare you?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":323.742,"endTime":326.454,"body":"That makes me feel a certain way."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":326.542,"endTime":327.666,"body":"Like you could just."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":327.798,"endTime":330.002,"body":"And we had a really great conversation as we"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":330.026,"endTime":335.322,"body":"dove into it, but I felt like that aligned"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":330.026,"endTime":335.322,"body":"really well to what you had started to talk"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":335.346,"endTime":345.746,"body":"about in that episode of you've got to fail"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":335.346,"endTime":345.746,"body":"and figure out what is the manageable amount"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":345.818,"endTime":346.346,"body":"for you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":346.418,"endTime":347.202,"body":"What does that look like?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":347.226,"endTime":349.626,"body":"So, yeah, that's what I want to talk about"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":347.226,"endTime":349.626,"body":"today with you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":349.658,"endTime":354.418,"body":"And what do you think about this idea of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":349.658,"endTime":354.418,"body":"lowering your expectations over the course of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":354.434,"endTime":359.726,"body":"your 30 books, it doesn't really seem like"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":354.434,"endTime":359.726,"body":"those two things line up right, that you would"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":359.758,"endTime":367.294,"body":"lower your expectations, yet you would produce"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":359.758,"endTime":367.294,"body":"30 books over the last 1416 years."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":367.422,"endTime":368.87,"body":"And I think that that is the."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":368.99,"endTime":370.71,"body":"I love this, and I think it's the only way I"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":370.75,"endTime":373.582,"body":"have managed to produce anything is by"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":370.75,"endTime":373.582,"body":"lowering my expectations."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":373.686,"endTime":377.398,"body":"And I want to say, like, I'm a card carrying"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":373.686,"endTime":377.398,"body":"perfectionist."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":377.454,"endTime":378.894,"body":"I will never not be one."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":378.942,"endTime":382.062,"body":"And I'm also a freaking snob because I came"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":382.086,"endTime":383.254,"body":"out of the MFA tradition."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":383.382,"endTime":387.082,"body":"So, like, my sister was the one who told me"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":387.106,"endTime":388.122,"body":"about Nanowrimo."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":388.226,"endTime":389.914,"body":"And if anybody doesn't know what that is, it"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":389.922,"endTime":392.418,"body":"is the challenge to write 50,000 words in a"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":389.922,"endTime":392.418,"body":"month."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":392.434,"endTime":394.33,"body":"So it's a very short novel, but in a month."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":394.45,"endTime":396.41,"body":"And my sister told me about it, and in"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":396.45,"endTime":401.474,"body":"sisterly fashion, I just remember saying to"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":396.45,"endTime":401.474,"body":"her, like, who would do that?"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":401.562,"endTime":402.19,"body":"Only."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":402.65,"endTime":405.91,"body":"Only a hack would try to write that fast."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":406.61,"endTime":409.042,"body":"And she's like, all right, whatever, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":406.61,"endTime":409.042,"body":"doing it."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":409.106,"endTime":410.17,"body":"I just told you about it."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":410.25,"endTime":412.018,"body":"But as soon as she left, I went inside and"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":412.034,"endTime":416.23,"body":"googled it, and I was like, okay, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":412.034,"endTime":416.23,"body":"finishing anything, so why don't I try this?"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":416.59,"endTime":422.206,"body":"And for the very first time, I took it really"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":416.59,"endTime":422.206,"body":"seriously."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":422.238,"endTime":429.238,"body":"This whole Julia Cameron the artist's way"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":422.238,"endTime":429.238,"body":"method of, like, saying to yourself, I am only"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":429.294,"endTime":431.534,"body":"going to be in control of the quantity."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":431.702,"endTime":433.91,"body":"The quantity is I'm going to produce quantity,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":433.99,"endTime":437.342,"body":"and I'm going for a higher quantity of words,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":433.99,"endTime":437.342,"body":"or, you know, chapters or scenes or whatever"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":437.366,"endTime":439.222,"body":"you're working on than I normally would."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":439.326,"endTime":440.902,"body":"And something else will control the quality,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":440.966,"endTime":443.01,"body":"and I'm not going to bother about it."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":443.19,"endTime":445.562,"body":"And here's the thing I've learned over the"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":445.586,"endTime":451.042,"body":"course of much writing and much teaching is"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":445.586,"endTime":451.042,"body":"that these days that we tell ourselves that"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":451.066,"endTime":455.07,"body":"we're lowering the standard of our work in"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":451.066,"endTime":455.07,"body":"order to get a lot of words done."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":455.77,"endTime":457.362,"body":"It's absolutely."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":457.546,"endTime":458.21,"body":"It's false."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":458.25,"endTime":460.578,"body":"It is false, because our voice is our writing"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":458.25,"endTime":460.578,"body":"voice."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":460.634,"endTime":462.402,"body":"Is our writing voice, is our writing voice."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":462.506,"endTime":464.362,"body":"The days that we have the worst days ever, and"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":464.386,"endTime":467.43,"body":"we're writing the worst words that have ever"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":464.386,"endTime":467.43,"body":"been put on the page."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":467.93,"endTime":469.95,"body":"You have that on a Wednesday and then on a"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":467.93,"endTime":469.95,"body":"Friday."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":470.38,"endTime":471.316,"body":"It flows."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":471.348,"endTime":472.22,"body":"You go into flow."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":472.26,"endTime":475.356,"body":"You don't even look up for 57 minutes, and"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":472.26,"endTime":475.356,"body":"it's beautiful."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":475.388,"endTime":478.124,"body":"And you look back on the words, and they are"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":475.388,"endTime":478.124,"body":"going to change the world."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":478.172,"endTime":483.956,"body":"You will win a Pulitzer, but in two weeks, you"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":478.172,"endTime":483.956,"body":"will not be able to tell those two days apart."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":484.148,"endTime":485.62,"body":"Yeah, they are the same voice."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":485.66,"endTime":486.82,"body":"They're the same writing."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":486.9,"endTime":490.964,"body":"But on one day, you chose to get some dang"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":486.9,"endTime":490.964,"body":"work done."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":491.012,"endTime":492.996,"body":"You promised yourself you would get the work"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":491.012,"endTime":492.996,"body":"done."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":493.148,"endTime":499.612,"body":"So lowering your expectations and nothing,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":493.148,"endTime":499.612,"body":"trying to make the words sound good."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":499.676,"endTime":501.468,"body":"Oh, I have something if people want to look at"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":499.676,"endTime":501.468,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":501.484,"endTime":508.796,"body":"If you go to rachelharon.com SfD, which stands"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":501.484,"endTime":508.796,"body":"for I don't know if we swear on the show, but"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":508.828,"endTime":509.96,"body":"crappy first draft."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":510.7,"endTime":514.852,"body":"All right, so rachelharon.com SfD for shitty"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":514.876,"endTime":515.532,"body":"first draft."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":515.636,"endTime":518.364,"body":"It'll shoot you over to an Instagram post"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":518.412,"endTime":520.732,"body":"where I show what my first draft writing looks"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":518.412,"endTime":520.732,"body":"like."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":520.836,"endTime":526.376,"body":"And I think it scares newer writers because"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":520.836,"endTime":526.376,"body":"they tell me this."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":526.528,"endTime":528.144,"body":"They're like, I didn't know you could do that."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":528.192,"endTime":531.216,"body":"I write sentences like, she picked up the all"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":531.248,"endTime":532.656,"body":"caps whatever it was."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":532.768,"endTime":535.456,"body":"She thought about all caps something."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":535.648,"endTime":538.824,"body":"And then the song came over the radio and it"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":535.648,"endTime":538.824,"body":"was blankety blank."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":538.872,"endTime":541.368,"body":"And then she said to what was that guy's name"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":538.872,"endTime":541.368,"body":"again?"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":541.424,"endTime":542.36,"body":"All in caps."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":542.48,"endTime":545.816,"body":"All of these spaces that I leave behind to"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":545.848,"endTime":546.44,"body":"fill in later."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":546.48,"endTime":547.744,"body":"Cause I'll fix it later."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":547.872,"endTime":550.424,"body":"I don't even know if the scene will deserve to"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":547.872,"endTime":550.424,"body":"be in this book yet."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":550.472,"endTime":556.746,"body":"Why should I make it good yet?"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":550.472,"endTime":556.746,"body":"And I would love to hear how you guys feel"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":556.778,"endTime":559.81,"body":"about this, but it is."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":559.89,"endTime":561.642,"body":"I really, really think it is one of the truest"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":561.666,"endTime":561.922,"body":"truths."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":561.946,"endTime":563.826,"body":"There's not a lot of universal truths about"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":563.858,"endTime":564.026,"body":"writing."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":564.058,"endTime":565.89,"body":"Besides, you have to write in order to write."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":565.93,"endTime":567.17,"body":"Yeah, that's a big one."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":567.25,"endTime":570.298,"body":"But another one is that most of us need to do"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":570.314,"endTime":571.898,"body":"a crappy first draft and then revise it."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":571.954,"endTime":573.682,"body":"Most of us should not be revising as we go"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":573.706,"endTime":574.106,"body":"along."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":574.218,"endTime":577.554,"body":"There are exceptions to this rule, and those"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":577.602,"endTime":580.15,"body":"exceptions are revising as they go."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":580.23,"endTime":583.126,"body":"And they are completing book after good book"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":583.198,"endTime":584.374,"body":"that they're proud of."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":584.542,"endTime":585.606,"body":"That means it's their process."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":585.678,"endTime":588.198,"body":"And there are those unicorns, but most."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":588.254,"endTime":592.542,"body":"I just heard two of them talking on a"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":588.254,"endTime":592.542,"body":"podcast recently, and they were like, they're"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":592.566,"endTime":596.494,"body":"like, I can't move forward unless, like, the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":592.566,"endTime":596.494,"body":"problem is fixed."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":596.542,"endTime":597.39,"body":"I must go back."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":597.43,"endTime":598.782,"body":"And they were like, they were just, like,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":598.806,"endTime":599.582,"body":"feeding off each other."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":599.606,"endTime":601.974,"body":"And I was like, oh, no, do you have to realize"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":602.022,"endTime":603.302,"body":"that you are just like."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":603.446,"endTime":603.902,"body":"You are."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":603.966,"endTime":608.382,"body":"Unicorns are unicorns, and God"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":603.966,"endTime":608.382,"body":"bless them, because they are finishing books."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":608.406,"endTime":609.502,"body":"So that is their process."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":609.606,"endTime":611.322,"body":"But what that does, it gets in so many"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":611.346,"endTime":614.298,"body":"people's heads because we all believe we"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":611.346,"endTime":614.298,"body":"shouldn't move forward until we fix the"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":614.314,"endTime":614.634,"body":"problem."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":614.722,"endTime":616.89,"body":"But we don't know how to fix the problem until"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":616.93,"endTime":624.322,"body":"we've gone forward terribly, with gaping holes"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":616.93,"endTime":624.322,"body":"in grand canyons of caverns in our work, until"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":624.346,"endTime":628.586,"body":"we get to the end, where we go, oh, I thought"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":624.346,"endTime":628.586,"body":"it was a book about the relationship with her"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":628.618,"endTime":628.97,"body":"dad."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":629.05,"endTime":630.586,"body":"It's actually the book about the relationship"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":630.618,"endTime":631.386,"body":"with her daughter."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":631.458,"endTime":634.002,"body":"Oh, no. And that's why you couldn't have fixed"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":634.026,"endTime":635.752,"body":"it back then."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":635.906,"endTime":638.812,"body":"And the vast majority of us work that way."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":638.836,"endTime":642.724,"body":"And so when students come to me and say, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":638.836,"endTime":642.724,"body":"I can't move forward until it's perfect, I"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":642.732,"endTime":643.548,"body":"say, you must."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":643.684,"endTime":644.78,"body":"You will not finish books."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":644.86,"endTime":646.452,"body":"That's why you've never finished your book."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":646.476,"endTime":648.82,"body":"That's why I had never finished a book before."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":648.98,"endTime":655.348,"body":"I tell people to lower their expectations to"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":648.98,"endTime":655.348,"body":"the floor and then pull up the floorboards and"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":655.364,"endTime":659.148,"body":"dig a basement for those expectations to go"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":655.364,"endTime":659.148,"body":"even lower."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":659.204,"endTime":659.94,"body":"As low as you can."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":659.98,"endTime":662.656,"body":"I'm just gonna waste the next two"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":659.98,"endTime":662.656,"body":"months."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":662.728,"endTime":663.264,"body":"Like, yes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":663.312,"endTime":664.272,"body":"Nothing's going to come of it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":664.296,"endTime":665.496,"body":"You have to tell yourself that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":665.528,"endTime":665.848,"body":"That's what."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":665.864,"endTime":667.856,"body":"I had a similar experience where I just"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":667.928,"endTime":669.024,"body":"couldn't finish anything."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":669.152,"endTime":671.128,"body":"And I've told this story so listeners will be"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":671.144,"endTime":671.792,"body":"familiar with it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":671.816,"endTime":674.976,"body":"But I eventually was like, okay, I have"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":675.008,"endTime":678.072,"body":"nothing left to lose because I've still not"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":675.008,"endTime":678.072,"body":"finished anything."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":678.136,"endTime":679.008,"body":"And so I just told my."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":679.064,"endTime":681.0,"body":"I actually went and bought one of those free"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":681.04,"endTime":682.856,"body":"write computers, and I love that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":682.888,"endTime":686.168,"body":"So I literally couldn't, like, go backwards."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":686.344,"endTime":690.408,"body":"And I told myself, like, you're going to work"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":686.344,"endTime":690.408,"body":"right forward for eight weeks and just see"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":690.424,"endTime":692.944,"body":"what happens, and you're probably going to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":690.424,"endTime":692.944,"body":"waste those eight weeks."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":692.992,"endTime":694.412,"body":"Of course I did not."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":694.596,"endTime":695.436,"body":"Spoiler alert."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":695.508,"endTime":696.564,"body":"Spoiler alert."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":696.692,"endTime":697.26,"body":"But, like."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":697.34,"endTime":698.972,"body":"But it's almost like you have to trick your"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":698.996,"endTime":699.468,"body":"brain into."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":699.524,"endTime":702.212,"body":"Because my brain could not even comprehend the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":702.236,"endTime":705.7,"body":"idea that I would spend eight weeks only"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":702.236,"endTime":705.7,"body":"writing forward and actually get somewhere,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":705.78,"endTime":708.708,"body":"which is so silly when you say it out loud,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":705.78,"endTime":708.708,"body":"but, like, it's so."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":708.764,"endTime":709.26,"body":"It's so."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":709.34,"endTime":711.908,"body":"That's a brilliant solution"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":709.34,"endTime":711.908,"body":"there, because you made one decision."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":712.004,"endTime":714.66,"body":"Your one decision was not, how do I fix the"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":712.004,"endTime":714.66,"body":"scene yesterday?"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":714.7,"endTime":718.18,"body":"How do I fix the scene today?"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":714.7,"endTime":718.18,"body":"Your solution was, I'm not fixing any scenes."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":718.22,"endTime":719.812,"body":"I am merely writing forward."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":719.916,"endTime":720.892,"body":"What will happen?"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":721.036,"endTime":723.14,"body":"And did you end up finishing that book?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":723.3,"endTime":723.756,"body":"I did."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":723.788,"endTime":724.508,"body":"I sold it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":724.604,"endTime":725.06,"body":"It's out."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":725.1,"endTime":726.44,"body":"It came out last month."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":727.7,"endTime":729.012,"body":"Congratulations."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":729.076,"endTime":730.932,"body":"That is what I'm talking about, because you"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":730.956,"endTime":731.724,"body":"finally."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":731.892,"endTime":734.652,"body":"Okay, so here's another snobby thing that I"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":734.676,"endTime":739.876,"body":"feel that I will only confess for myself, but,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":734.676,"endTime":739.876,"body":"like, I always knew 100% with my intellect"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":739.988,"endTime":741.892,"body":"that everybody has to write a crappy first"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":739.988,"endTime":741.892,"body":"draft."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":741.916,"endTime":743.156,"body":"Like, I understood that."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":743.188,"endTime":745.252,"body":"I believed it to be true, and still, in the"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":745.276,"endTime":751.758,"body":"back of my mind, I had this, like, puritanical"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":745.276,"endTime":751.758,"body":"complex that was like, except for me, I must"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":751.814,"endTime":756.334,"body":"get it right on the first try, because I will"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":751.814,"endTime":756.334,"body":"die of shame and guilt and embarrassment if I"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":756.342,"endTime":756.502,"body":"don't."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":756.526,"endTime":758.17,"body":"So I must get it right."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":758.79,"endTime":761.126,"body":"And when you finally realize, oh, no, you're"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":758.79,"endTime":761.126,"body":"just like everybody else."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":761.158,"endTime":763.182,"body":"It's such a weight lifted."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":763.246,"endTime":763.878,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":764.054,"endTime":765.334,"body":"I love that story, Emily."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":765.382,"endTime":766.27,"body":"That is so cool."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":766.35,"endTime":769.37,"body":"Yeah. Well, okay, so I'm working on the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":766.35,"endTime":769.37,"body":"second one now."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":770.99,"endTime":772.09,"body":"Same problem."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":773.11,"endTime":774.65,"body":"Does it get easier?"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":776.22,"endTime":780.92,"body":"No. You know what gets easier"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":776.22,"endTime":780.92,"body":"is the revision."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":781.22,"endTime":782.556,"body":"Revision, always."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":782.628,"endTime":784.236,"body":"Because you get those tools, you learn what"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":784.268,"endTime":787.732,"body":"tools work for you, and you know how to"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":784.268,"endTime":787.732,"body":"explode a book, you know?"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":787.756,"endTime":791.18,"body":"And, you know, so many people think revision"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":787.756,"endTime":791.18,"body":"is about making paragraphs and sentences and"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":791.22,"endTime":791.724,"body":"words better."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":791.772,"endTime":792.052,"body":"It's not."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":792.076,"endTime":794.916,"body":"It's about pulling the story"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":792.076,"endTime":794.916,"body":"apart, looking at its structure, and getting"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":794.948,"endTime":797.86,"body":"under the hood and making sure that you can"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":794.948,"endTime":797.86,"body":"put it back together into a better package."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":797.9,"endTime":801.028,"body":"And then after you've done that revision, then"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":797.9,"endTime":801.028,"body":"you can make all the sentences shine."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":801.124,"endTime":803.948,"body":"We get those tools, and we know how to use"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":801.124,"endTime":803.948,"body":"them, and they will work for every book, no"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":803.964,"endTime":804.772,"body":"matter what genre."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":804.876,"endTime":806.972,"body":"But I swear, every single first draft is like"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":806.996,"endTime":807.736,"body":"a mystery."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":807.868,"endTime":809.36,"body":"It feels like we've never done it before."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":809.48,"endTime":810.792,"body":"We will never get through it."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":810.816,"endTime":814.432,"body":"We have absolutely chosen the wrong thing to"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":814.456,"endTime":817.088,"body":"write about, and we went in seven different"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":814.456,"endTime":817.088,"body":"wrong directions."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":817.144,"endTime":822.552,"body":"And that's another case to be made for"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":817.144,"endTime":822.552,"body":"accepting, lowering your expectations."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":822.616,"endTime":823.88,"body":"Like, yep, I am making."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":824.0,"endTime":824.816,"body":"I'm not making a book."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":824.848,"endTime":828.22,"body":"I'm making, like, an octopus, saxophone,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":824.848,"endTime":828.22,"body":"birdhouse."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":828.52,"endTime":829.944,"body":"And that's what I'm doing."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":830.072,"endTime":832.632,"body":"And later, I'll make that into a book, and"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":832.656,"endTime":833.58,"body":"that's fine."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":834.17,"endTime":838.514,"body":"So, what did this look like?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":834.17,"endTime":838.514,"body":"What did this look like for your day to day"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":838.642,"endTime":840.634,"body":"writing?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":838.642,"endTime":840.634,"body":"I mean, for Emily."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":840.682,"endTime":843.474,"body":"She bought a free write and then wrote forward"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":840.682,"endTime":843.474,"body":"for eight weeks."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":843.602,"endTime":848.002,"body":"What did it look like for you?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":843.602,"endTime":848.002,"body":"Or does it kind of depend on where you're at"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":848.026,"endTime":849.546,"body":"in a new book, or was it."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":849.578,"endTime":855.29,"body":"It's really similar in that"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":849.578,"endTime":855.29,"body":"for most first drafts, I either use my."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":855.37,"endTime":857.154,"body":"Well, actually, I don't love the freewriter."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":857.282,"endTime":859.602,"body":"I had an old alpha smart, but it eventually"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":859.666,"endTime":863.03,"body":"died before the free rider, the freewrite"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":859.666,"endTime":863.03,"body":"thing."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":863.6,"endTime":867.968,"body":"So I would use that, or I would use the old"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":863.6,"endTime":867.968,"body":"app that is now no longer supported."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":867.984,"endTime":869.536,"body":"But it was called write or die."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":869.688,"endTime":870.624,"body":"Did either of you ever."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":870.672,"endTime":871.384,"body":"Oh, yes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":871.472,"endTime":872.656,"body":"I did use that."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":872.768,"endTime":873.472,"body":"It was great."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":873.536,"endTime":875.408,"body":"I dedicated two books to it because I would go"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":875.424,"endTime":876.216,"body":"to the cafe."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":876.328,"endTime":877.624,"body":"I didn't have the wifi password."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":877.672,"endTime":881.376,"body":"I'd put my cell phone in my bag, and then I"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":877.672,"endTime":881.376,"body":"would turn on ride or die, and ride or die"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":881.408,"endTime":886.14,"body":"works so that you can configure it to do"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":881.408,"endTime":886.14,"body":"different punishments."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":886.92,"endTime":889.16,"body":"First, it would go, like, red while you were."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":889.2,"endTime":890.024,"body":"If you weren't typing it."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":890.032,"endTime":893.304,"body":"Would go red and then it would start making"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":890.032,"endTime":893.304,"body":"terrible noises and then it would drop down"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":893.392,"endTime":898.9,"body":"images of spiders to start erasing your words"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":893.392,"endTime":898.9,"body":"so you just, and you couldn't get them back."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":898.98,"endTime":901.076,"body":"Couldn't, like, control z to get them back."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":901.188,"endTime":902.92,"body":"So you had to keep moving forward."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":903.34,"endTime":908.244,"body":"And I would go in and I'd do 45 minutes of"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":903.34,"endTime":908.244,"body":"doing that, pop those in the draft, take a"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":908.252,"endTime":911.428,"body":"little break, and then I'd do another 45"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":908.252,"endTime":911.428,"body":"minutes and that's what I would do for the"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":911.444,"endTime":911.572,"body":"day."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":911.596,"endTime":913.364,"body":"And then I would do two sessions of that and"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":913.372,"endTime":914.476,"body":"then we'd go home."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":914.668,"endTime":917.64,"body":"And I've always written forward in that way,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":918.9,"endTime":922.9,"body":"accepting, I guess just like the whole"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":918.9,"endTime":922.9,"body":"acceptance washes over you that I am not going"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":922.9,"endTime":924.372,"body":"to fix this book in a first draft."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":924.396,"endTime":926.402,"body":"And if I do, I'm wasting my time."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":926.596,"endTime":930.71,"body":"Yeah. So this idea of lowering your"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":926.596,"endTime":930.71,"body":"expectations, it works?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":930.75,"endTime":931.862,"body":"I mean, I think I agree with you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":931.886,"endTime":934.214,"body":"I think everyone finds a pretty similar"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":934.262,"endTime":934.55,"body":"solution."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":934.59,"endTime":937.214,"body":"Like, I looked up your link, which everyone,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":937.262,"endTime":941.694,"body":"I'm going to put the shitty first draft post"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":937.262,"endTime":941.694,"body":"in our show notes so you can go look at it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":941.742,"endTime":944.126,"body":"But I looked at it and I do something pretty"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":941.742,"endTime":944.126,"body":"similar."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":944.278,"endTime":951.366,"body":"And then I ended up calling it, like, layer"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":944.278,"endTime":951.366,"body":"writing because the first time I go through a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":951.398,"endTime":955.036,"body":"scene, I'm like, I remember, this is so crazy."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":955.108,"endTime":957.892,"body":"I have, like, pretty good snapshots of import,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":957.956,"endTime":962.044,"body":"like, memories in my brain, but I can see"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":957.956,"endTime":962.044,"body":"myself, like, maybe ten years ago sitting in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":962.052,"endTime":967.108,"body":"my bed writing and, like, just staring at a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":962.052,"endTime":967.108,"body":"description and having, like, no idea how to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":967.164,"endTime":973.34,"body":"describe what this girl's dress looks like and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":967.164,"endTime":973.34,"body":"being like, I have no idea how to use words."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":973.42,"endTime":974.444,"body":"I'm terrible."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":974.572,"endTime":978.14,"body":"And, like, being just so critical of, like, I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":978.18,"endTime":983.116,"body":"cannot keep writing unless I can perfectly"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":978.18,"endTime":983.116,"body":"describe the fabric of this dress and the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":983.148,"endTime":985.592,"body":"jewels, the dress and how beautiful it is."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":985.676,"endTime":986.824,"body":"And nothing sounded right."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":986.872,"endTime":988.104,"body":"So I just, like, gave up."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":988.152,"endTime":988.74,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":989.44,"endTime":992.48,"body":"But then I realized that, like, descriptions"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":989.44,"endTime":992.48,"body":"are my least favorite thing."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":992.56,"endTime":993.376,"body":"So me too."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":993.408,"endTime":994.336,"body":"I'm not gonna write them."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":994.408,"endTime":997.38,"body":"I'm just gonna skip them and come on back."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":997.72,"endTime":1003.136,"body":"And so I started to do, like, different layers"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":997.72,"endTime":1003.136,"body":"where dialogue is the first thing that I like"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1003.168,"endTime":1003.496,"body":"to write."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1003.528,"endTime":1005.536,"body":"So I usually end up doing, like, very little"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1005.568,"endTime":1008.76,"body":"of other things and I just write out the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1005.568,"endTime":1008.76,"body":"dialogue and then I go back and flesh things"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1008.8,"endTime":1012.328,"body":"out and then I go back again and I flush more"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1008.8,"endTime":1012.328,"body":"things out and it ends up looking really"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1012.384,"endTime":1016.448,"body":"similar like this because you just leave the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1012.384,"endTime":1016.448,"body":"blanks of, oh, I don't know what this is, so"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1016.464,"endTime":1017.5,"body":"I'm gonna skip it."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1018.54,"endTime":1022.092,"body":"We have this, like, pretend"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1018.54,"endTime":1022.092,"body":"image in our head that writers sit down and"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1022.116,"endTime":1023.244,"body":"they write a pretty good."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1023.292,"endTime":1024.692,"body":"You know, solid draft."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1024.716,"endTime":1026.604,"body":"And then they clean it up, and they send it to"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1024.716,"endTime":1026.604,"body":"their editor."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1026.652,"endTime":1027.716,"body":"And that is not what happens."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1027.748,"endTime":1030.676,"body":"We all, most of us there are the unicorns, but"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1030.748,"endTime":1032.164,"body":"most of us write in those layers."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1032.212,"endTime":1033.268,"body":"And I'm exactly the same as you."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1033.284,"endTime":1033.892,"body":"I hate setting."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1033.956,"endTime":1034.748,"body":"I can't see it in my head."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1034.764,"endTime":1036.004,"body":"I don't have a good mind's eye."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1036.092,"endTime":1038.372,"body":"I can't describe people, and I just don't do"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1038.396,"endTime":1038.58,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1038.62,"endTime":1041.196,"body":"And I remember when I first started doing"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1041.228,"endTime":1042.476,"body":"that, I kept having those shoulds."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1042.508,"endTime":1043.236,"body":"Like, well, I should."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1043.308,"endTime":1045.14,"body":"I should be able to screw that."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1045.18,"endTime":1047.124,"body":"No, I hear the dialogue first, and you can"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1047.132,"endTime":1047.68,"body":"get."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1048.02,"endTime":1050.02,"body":"You've got a 90,000 word book that you just"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1050.06,"endTime":1053.716,"body":"wrote in 30,000 words because you only did the"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1050.06,"endTime":1053.716,"body":"dialogue."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1053.788,"endTime":1054.964,"body":"They're just heads in space."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1055.012,"endTime":1057.388,"body":"They're not even bodies in a room or in a"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1057.404,"endTime":1057.652,"body":"place."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1057.716,"endTime":1060.108,"body":"And then you go back and you put all that in"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1060.244,"endTime":1062.796,"body":"to your liking and in your different passes."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1062.988,"endTime":1066.388,"body":"Some people I know worship setting and world"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1066.444,"endTime":1070.252,"body":"building, and they'll build that first and"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1066.444,"endTime":1070.252,"body":"then build plot character into it."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1070.316,"endTime":1071.2,"body":"Is it really?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1071.54,"endTime":1077.466,"body":"Yeah. So I can't do the talking head"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1071.54,"endTime":1077.466,"body":"thing because if I can't see it, like, if I"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1077.498,"endTime":1079.97,"body":"can't be immersed in it, it's not real for me."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1080.01,"endTime":1082.306,"body":"And if it's not real for me, I lose track of"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1082.338,"endTime":1083.986,"body":"where I'm going, if that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1084.018,"endTime":1090.154,"body":"So, like, so I. I will do, but I'll get lost"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1090.202,"endTime":1091.706,"body":"in it, right?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1090.202,"endTime":1091.706,"body":"I'll get lost in the setting."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1091.738,"endTime":1092.258,"body":"I'll get lost."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1092.314,"endTime":1093.426,"body":"It will still hold me up."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1093.458,"endTime":1098.154,"body":"So what I do is what I call, kind of a bullet"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1093.458,"endTime":1098.154,"body":"sketch outline, where I think through"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1098.202,"endTime":1101.97,"body":"everything that needs to happen in the scene"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1098.202,"endTime":1101.97,"body":"so that I don't veer off trail once I start"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1102.01,"endTime":1103.186,"body":"putting prose down."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1103.338,"endTime":1105.058,"body":"And so I'll be like, okay, you need to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1105.074,"endTime":1107.21,"body":"describe this thing, just this thing."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1107.37,"endTime":1108.43,"body":"And then, you know, this."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1108.49,"endTime":1109.022,"body":"The dialogue."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1109.046,"endTime":1112.262,"body":"So I'll think through the dialogue and"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1109.046,"endTime":1112.262,"body":"everything, but I have to actually, I can't"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1112.286,"endTime":1114.694,"body":"just stop at the bullet sketch and move to the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1112.286,"endTime":1114.694,"body":"next scene."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1114.782,"endTime":1118.422,"body":"I have to immerse myself in it and write the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1114.782,"endTime":1118.422,"body":"descriptions and do all of that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1118.446,"endTime":1118.95,"body":"But I will."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1118.99,"endTime":1121.79,"body":"Honestly, I'll write my chapters out of order,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1121.87,"endTime":1125.878,"body":"where I'll do that bullet sketch, and then"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1121.87,"endTime":1125.878,"body":"I'll write the dialogue in the middle, and"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1125.894,"endTime":1128.622,"body":"then I'll go back and I'll do the description"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1125.894,"endTime":1128.622,"body":"at the beginning."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1128.806,"endTime":1132.85,"body":"And so within a scene, I literally write my"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1128.806,"endTime":1132.85,"body":"paragraph out of order."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1133.55,"endTime":1134.394,"body":"And then."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1134.542,"endTime":1136.482,"body":"But I've never heard anything"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1134.542,"endTime":1136.482,"body":"say that."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1136.586,"endTime":1138.35,"body":"But it makes so much sense."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1138.85,"endTime":1143.17,"body":"Yeah. It's helped me get out of my own"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1138.85,"endTime":1143.17,"body":"head, because if I try to do it all the scene"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1143.21,"endTime":1145.154,"body":"in order, I'll get stuck."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1145.202,"endTime":1148.65,"body":"But I have to do the whole scene before I can"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1148.77,"endTime":1149.21,"body":"move on."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1149.25,"endTime":1149.906,"body":"That is so cool."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1149.938,"endTime":1152.042,"body":"Can I ask you both what your mind's eye is"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1152.066,"endTime":1153.874,"body":"like?"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1152.066,"endTime":1153.874,"body":"Have you heard of aphantasia?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1154.042,"endTime":1154.83,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1155.45,"endTime":1157.602,"body":"I'm not aphantasia, but I'm"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1155.45,"endTime":1157.602,"body":"almost there."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1157.626,"endTime":1161.562,"body":"Like, if you tell me to picture an apple, I"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1157.626,"endTime":1161.562,"body":"can picture a dumb apple."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1161.706,"endTime":1162.91,"body":"I can't really see it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1163.31,"endTime":1165.326,"body":"Yeah. So, no, I can."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1165.518,"endTime":1170.286,"body":"I can picture everything, but that's why I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1170.318,"endTime":1174.454,"body":"don't ever put in the description, because it,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1170.318,"endTime":1174.454,"body":"like, it can never match."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1174.622,"endTime":1177.518,"body":"It will never match what I see in my head."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1177.574,"endTime":1178.182,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1178.246,"endTime":1180.286,"body":"I've always kind of, like, criticized myself"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1180.318,"endTime":1182.23,"body":"for not being able to see it, but at least I"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1180.318,"endTime":1182.23,"body":"don't."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1182.31,"endTime":1184.87,"body":"I'm not doing it wrong because I can't see it"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1182.31,"endTime":1184.87,"body":"anyway."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1184.99,"endTime":1188.47,"body":"That's where my perfectionism comes"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1184.99,"endTime":1188.47,"body":"in, of, like, you will."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1188.55,"endTime":1191.742,"body":"You will never say it as good as you can"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1188.55,"endTime":1191.742,"body":"envision it in your head."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1191.766,"endTime":1193.94,"body":"I. It's just never gonna be that way."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1194.06,"endTime":1195.804,"body":"So then I was like, I won't try."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1195.932,"endTime":1198.268,"body":"I'm not gonna try to do that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1198.404,"endTime":1201.492,"body":"I will put it in later when everything else is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1201.516,"endTime":1206.412,"body":"there and nobody really cares about, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1201.516,"endTime":1206.412,"body":"what the dress looks like because the dialogue"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1206.436,"endTime":1207.148,"body":"is so funny."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1207.204,"endTime":1208.06,"body":"Like, yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1208.1,"endTime":1210.932,"body":"So I had to myself, I won't care either."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1211.116,"endTime":1213.212,"body":"I won't care either because everything else is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1213.236,"endTime":1214.12,"body":"so great."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1214.82,"endTime":1216.2,"body":"That's so interesting."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1216.98,"endTime":1221.16,"body":"I feel like I, like, I've this sound."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1221.2,"endTime":1224.38,"body":"This is gonna sound really weird, but, like,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1221.2,"endTime":1224.38,"body":"visualize with other senses."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1224.84,"endTime":1232.992,"body":"Like, I feel like I can immerse in the visual,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1224.84,"endTime":1232.992,"body":"like, with, like, sound and scent and things"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1233.016,"endTime":1233.288,"body":"like that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1233.304,"endTime":1234.76,"body":"But, like, the visual itself is."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1234.84,"endTime":1236.0,"body":"It's there, but it's fuzzy."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1236.04,"endTime":1238.224,"body":"Like, I can't picture faces, so I have, like,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1238.272,"endTime":1242.712,"body":"such a hard time when I'm, like, scrolling"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1238.272,"endTime":1242.712,"body":"Pinterest trying to find people who look like"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1242.736,"endTime":1243.264,"body":"my characters."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1243.312,"endTime":1245.296,"body":"Cause I, like, I actually can't picture my"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1245.328,"endTime":1245.68,"body":"characters."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1245.72,"endTime":1247.58,"body":"So I'm like, none of these people work."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1249.95,"endTime":1251.27,"body":"It's not because they don't match."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1251.31,"endTime":1253.094,"body":"It's just because, like, they just don't"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1253.142,"endTime":1253.502,"body":"exist."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1253.566,"endTime":1254.37,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1254.87,"endTime":1255.966,"body":"I'm the opposite."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1256.038,"endTime":1259.73,"body":"I'm like, none of these are good"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1256.038,"endTime":1259.73,"body":"enough because they don't match."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1260.19,"endTime":1261.81,"body":"None of these are good."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1262.31,"endTime":1265.53,"body":"I just commissioned some artwork, and I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1265.87,"endTime":1272.238,"body":"commissioned two different pieces, and I was"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1265.87,"endTime":1272.238,"body":"like, ugh, this is not gonna be what I want it"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1272.254,"endTime":1272.63,"body":"to be."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1272.67,"endTime":1274.382,"body":"It's just not gonna look the same way."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1274.446,"endTime":1277.71,"body":"And I'm very pleased with, like, the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1274.446,"endTime":1277.71,"body":"directions, but I was scrolling for"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1277.75,"endTime":1282.128,"body":"inspiration photos on Pinterest and really,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1277.75,"endTime":1282.128,"body":"like, none of this is good enough."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1282.184,"endTime":1283.46,"body":"None of this works."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1283.84,"endTime":1284.66,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1285.0,"endTime":1289.336,"body":"I'm like, use the eyes from this"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1285.0,"endTime":1289.336,"body":"picture and the hairs from this picture and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1289.368,"endTime":1294.992,"body":"the chair this picture, and I gave, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1289.368,"endTime":1294.992,"body":"12,000 reference photos, and then at the end,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1295.016,"endTime":1296.016,"body":"I was like, but I don't know."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1296.048,"endTime":1297.38,"body":"You do what feels right."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1298.88,"endTime":1300.224,"body":"That is awesome."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1300.352,"endTime":1303.216,"body":"I love how different brains work and that"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1303.288,"endTime":1308.248,"body":"we're all making our different brains work in"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1303.288,"endTime":1308.248,"body":"order to get the same job done, and we all do"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1308.264,"endTime":1309.62,"body":"it in different ways."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1310.38,"endTime":1312.12,"body":"That's incredible to me."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1312.46,"endTime":1313.436,"body":"I so agree."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1313.548,"endTime":1316.18,"body":"I think the uniqueness of the process is just."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1316.3,"endTime":1322.348,"body":"But that's why I think that this discussion of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1316.3,"endTime":1322.348,"body":"what works for everybody is so important,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1322.444,"endTime":1328.028,"body":"because you really do think when you start"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1322.444,"endTime":1328.028,"body":"doing this or if you don't have a community"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1328.124,"endTime":1331.028,"body":"around you that talks about it, because so"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1328.124,"endTime":1331.028,"body":"many writers have been writing for years but"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1331.044,"endTime":1336.172,"body":"are completely isolated, and they sit down and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1331.044,"endTime":1336.172,"body":"they just think, well, everyone else knows"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1336.196,"endTime":1337.164,"body":"what they're doing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1337.332,"endTime":1339.516,"body":"Everyone else can do this on the first show."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1339.628,"endTime":1341.432,"body":"And it's like, no one does."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1341.516,"endTime":1343.912,"body":"Everyone sucks at this, and that's how it is."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1344.056,"endTime":1345.328,"body":"Welcome to the club."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1345.464,"endTime":1346.28,"body":"I was teaching this."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1346.32,"endTime":1347.808,"body":"I used to teach this class at Stanford that"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1347.824,"endTime":1349.816,"body":"was a semester long, and it was fast."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1349.848,"endTime":1350.912,"body":"Draft your memoir."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1351.056,"endTime":1352.56,"body":"And I eventually turned it into a book."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1352.6,"endTime":1354.928,"body":"But this woman came in, and I think it was the"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1354.944,"endTime":1358.048,"body":"third week of class, and she was almost in"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1354.944,"endTime":1358.048,"body":"tears, and she was supposed to have written a"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1358.064,"endTime":1359.152,"body":"lot over the week."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1359.296,"endTime":1360.192,"body":"That's what we were doing."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1360.256,"endTime":1362.552,"body":"And she came in, she's just so upset."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1362.576,"endTime":1365.4,"body":"She said, I just don't think I can do this."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1365.52,"endTime":1367.336,"body":"I sat down to write, and I hated it."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1367.368,"endTime":1368.56,"body":"And I hate it every minute."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1368.6,"endTime":1371.64,"body":"And I think I'm in the wrong place, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1368.6,"endTime":1371.64,"body":"just not a writer."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1371.68,"endTime":1374.812,"body":"And my heart is broken because I've always"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1371.68,"endTime":1374.812,"body":"wanted to be a writer."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1374.916,"endTime":1378.996,"body":"And I didn't really laugh at her, but I did"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1374.916,"endTime":1378.996,"body":"smile because I'm like, oh, congratulations."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1379.068,"endTime":1380.388,"body":"That means you're a writer."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1380.524,"endTime":1383.788,"body":"You know, who doesn't care about writing or"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1383.804,"endTime":1385.94,"body":"the fact that they're not writing is non"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1383.804,"endTime":1385.94,"body":"writers."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1385.98,"endTime":1386.74,"body":"They don't care."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1386.86,"endTime":1388.516,"body":"Writers are the only ones who feel like this."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1388.548,"endTime":1394.764,"body":"We all feel like we are letting ourselves down"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1388.548,"endTime":1394.764,"body":"all the time, and that is another great reason"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1394.812,"endTime":1396.48,"body":"to lower our expectations."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1396.94,"endTime":1400.798,"body":"I love thinking about planning and goal"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1400.854,"endTime":1401.454,"body":"setting."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1401.582,"endTime":1403.734,"body":"I have realized over the years that I am a"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1403.782,"endTime":1407.694,"body":"huge planner and huge goal setter, and then I"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1403.782,"endTime":1407.694,"body":"just, like, let the goals go."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1407.862,"endTime":1408.95,"body":"I don't care."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1409.03,"endTime":1411.622,"body":"I move the goalposts when I need to."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1411.646,"endTime":1414.742,"body":"I remember I was having a conversation with my"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1411.646,"endTime":1414.742,"body":"wife about this one time, and she hates"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1414.766,"endTime":1415.55,"body":"setting goals."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1415.71,"endTime":1418.134,"body":"As soon as she sets a goal, she basically"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1418.182,"endTime":1419.382,"body":"sabotages it."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1419.566,"endTime":1420.958,"body":"And I didn't understand that."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1420.974,"endTime":1424.582,"body":"I said, why don't you just move the goal?"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1420.974,"endTime":1424.582,"body":"Move the goalpost."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1424.606,"endTime":1427.866,"body":"So you didn't do x in when you were supposed"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1424.606,"endTime":1427.866,"body":"to do it."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1427.978,"endTime":1428.562,"body":"Move the goalpost."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1428.586,"endTime":1430.162,"body":"And she says, you can't do that with goals."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1430.226,"endTime":1431.906,"body":"It's just like, you fail."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1432.018,"endTime":1432.562,"body":"You have failed."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1432.586,"endTime":1433.45,"body":"I'm like, no, you don't."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1433.49,"endTime":1435.186,"body":"The goalposts are made to be moved."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1435.218,"endTime":1437.554,"body":"You are in charge of those."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1437.722,"endTime":1439.65,"body":"But the thing about writers is we will always"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1439.69,"endTime":1440.434,"body":"let ourselves down."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1440.482,"endTime":1443.018,"body":"I have never had a week where I've been, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1443.034,"endTime":1444.41,"body":"I did double my goals."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1444.53,"endTime":1445.026,"body":"Never."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1445.138,"endTime":1448.57,"body":"I basically never hit a week's goal."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1448.73,"endTime":1450.21,"body":"I probably will this week, but that's because"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1450.29,"endTime":1451.394,"body":"the goal was so low."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1451.442,"endTime":1453.418,"body":"My goal was for 4 hours of writing because"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1453.434,"endTime":1456.736,"body":"it's a really busy week, and that was my goal,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1453.434,"endTime":1456.736,"body":"and I've already hit it."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1456.808,"endTime":1458.0,"body":"But normal."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1458.04,"endTime":1460.016,"body":"I mean, but that's years of experience saying,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1460.048,"endTime":1462.08,"body":"rachel, you will not get five."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1462.2,"endTime":1464.76,"body":"This is what my bullet journal looks like this"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1464.8,"endTime":1465.0,"body":"week."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1465.04,"endTime":1467.376,"body":"It's not pretty, and you won't get 5 hours."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1467.408,"endTime":1472.168,"body":"So set your goal low, and maybe you won't let"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1467.408,"endTime":1472.168,"body":"yourself down, but also get used to letting"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1472.184,"endTime":1472.632,"body":"yourself down."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1472.656,"endTime":1473.792,"body":"It's not a big deal."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1473.976,"endTime":1478.68,"body":"So with this, this side of this is the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1473.976,"endTime":1478.68,"body":"work we're doing in tenacious writing from,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1478.72,"endTime":1480.056,"body":"like, a mindset perspective."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1480.128,"endTime":1484.69,"body":"So this is like when I first asked myself this"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1484.73,"endTime":1485.546,"body":"same question."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1485.698,"endTime":1487.25,"body":"I mean, it's not like I didn't have the same"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1487.29,"endTime":1491.714,"body":"visceral reaction of, like, I'm failing if I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1487.29,"endTime":1491.714,"body":"lower my expectations."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1491.802,"endTime":1498.354,"body":"Like, I remember very clearly it was about two"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1491.802,"endTime":1498.354,"body":"years ago and I have a four year old, and so"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1498.402,"endTime":1502.018,"body":"she was two, and things were just,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1498.402,"endTime":1502.018,"body":"everything's really hard all the time."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1502.114,"endTime":1506.77,"body":"So that just, like, what was going on?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1502.114,"endTime":1506.77,"body":"And I was exhausted and burnout and being"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1506.81,"endTime":1511.562,"body":"like, you're what's lining, what you're"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1506.81,"endTime":1511.562,"body":"setting yourself and what you're doing is not"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1511.586,"endTime":1513.466,"body":"lining up, and it's causing a lot of problems."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1513.578,"endTime":1515.794,"body":"But I had this huge reaction of, like, you're"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1515.842,"endTime":1518.234,"body":"failing, so give up."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1518.362,"endTime":1519.506,"body":"And then I was like, what?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1519.658,"endTime":1521.41,"body":"What?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1519.658,"endTime":1521.41,"body":"So what on your side?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1521.45,"endTime":1523.714,"body":"Like, what is, what's the mindset work that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1521.45,"endTime":1523.714,"body":"you did?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1523.762,"endTime":1528.626,"body":"Or how did you bring about this shift of,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1523.762,"endTime":1528.626,"body":"like, being okay with, I have a really low"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1528.658,"endTime":1533.514,"body":"goal, and it's different than, like, the way I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1528.658,"endTime":1533.514,"body":"used to do it or the way I used to think."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1533.682,"endTime":1534.466,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1534.658,"endTime":1536.91,"body":"How, how does that come about?"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1538.41,"endTime":1539.042,"body":"A lot."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1539.106,"endTime":1540.594,"body":"It just comes from a lot."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1540.682,"endTime":1547.71,"body":"A lot a lot of failure and not giving up, just"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1540.682,"endTime":1547.71,"body":"realizing that."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1547.75,"endTime":1554.086,"body":"I think over the course of a long time, if my"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1547.75,"endTime":1554.086,"body":"goal was 20 hours in the chair and I hit 19"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1554.198,"endTime":1560.21,"body":"hours, I felt like a failure, because that"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1554.198,"endTime":1560.21,"body":"was, you know, I didn't hit my goal."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1562.07,"endTime":1564.326,"body":"I talked to a lot of."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1564.358,"endTime":1566.85,"body":"It's just, it's all wrapped up in this"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1567.43,"endTime":1570.678,"body":"capitalist western idea of perfectionism."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1570.854,"endTime":1572.318,"body":"And there's a great book out right now that"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1572.334,"endTime":1572.838,"body":"I'm loving."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1572.894,"endTime":1574.518,"body":"It's called the perfectionist guide to losing"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1574.534,"endTime":1575.09,"body":"control."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1575.69,"endTime":1577.53,"body":"And it's fabulous."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1577.57,"endTime":1578.13,"body":"You got to get it."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1578.17,"endTime":1580.738,"body":"But her whole point is that we will never get"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1580.754,"endTime":1581.882,"body":"rid of our perfectionism."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1582.026,"endTime":1583.17,"body":"We can't push it away."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1583.21,"endTime":1585.946,"body":"We can't just, like, turn it off and say, hey,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1583.21,"endTime":1585.946,"body":"now, I'm chill."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1586.098,"endTime":1587.026,"body":"I'm a chill guy."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1587.098,"endTime":1588.026,"body":"I don't care about anything."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1588.098,"endTime":1589.306,"body":"We'll never be that way."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1589.458,"endTime":1591.87,"body":"But she talks about using your perfectionism"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1592.21,"endTime":1594.658,"body":"adaptively rather than maladaptively."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1594.794,"endTime":1597.754,"body":"Maladaptively means I set unreasonable goals"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1597.802,"endTime":1599.47,"body":"and I fail to hit them all the time."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1599.93,"endTime":1603.468,"body":"Adaptively means I can look at a week in which"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1603.484,"endTime":1608.636,"body":"I'm super busy and traveling and teaching a"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1603.484,"endTime":1608.636,"body":"lot, and rejiggering."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1608.708,"endTime":1610.94,"body":"Rejiggering is one of my favorite words of all"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1608.708,"endTime":1610.94,"body":"time."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1610.98,"endTime":1614.716,"body":"I do it all the time, rejiggering things over"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1610.98,"endTime":1614.716,"body":"and over and over again."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1614.748,"endTime":1619.716,"body":"So the goalposts are always moving, and we're"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1614.748,"endTime":1619.716,"body":"always heading toward the new goalposts and"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1619.788,"endTime":1622.924,"body":"truly, truly being okay with that."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1623.092,"endTime":1624.08,"body":"I was taking."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1624.78,"endTime":1626.172,"body":"I was taking piano lessons."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1626.276,"endTime":1628.076,"body":"No, sorry, my wife is picking piano lessons."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1628.108,"endTime":1633.468,"body":"I was taking guitar lessons for a while, and"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1628.108,"endTime":1633.468,"body":"my teacher said and that he wanted me to"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1633.484,"endTime":1636.36,"body":"practice for as long as I was having fun."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1636.82,"endTime":1639.756,"body":"And my whole life with, with music stuff, I've"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1639.788,"endTime":1642.148,"body":"always practiced until I am frustrated."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1642.284,"endTime":1643.948,"body":"And then I speak of the day, I think, oh, I'm"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1643.964,"endTime":1644.276,"body":"frustrated."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1644.308,"endTime":1644.572,"body":"I'm not."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1644.596,"endTime":1646.284,"body":"I'm not getting any better right now."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1646.332,"endTime":1647.516,"body":"I'll put it down and walk away."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1647.628,"endTime":1651.412,"body":"And that meant every single time I walked away"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1647.628,"endTime":1651.412,"body":"from the instrument, I was walking away with"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1651.436,"endTime":1653.12,"body":"kind of a sour feeling."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1653.86,"endTime":1656.572,"body":"And if every day you're not quite hitting the"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1656.596,"endTime":1659.982,"body":"goal that you set yourself for writing, you're"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1656.596,"endTime":1659.982,"body":"walking away from the day with this guilty."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1660.116,"endTime":1665.69,"body":"Your perfectionist is beating you up, guilty"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1660.116,"endTime":1665.69,"body":"feeling that makes you a little bit more loath"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1665.73,"endTime":1667.298,"body":"to even try the next day."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1667.394,"endTime":1669.386,"body":"Whereas if you just set yourself some stupid"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1669.418,"endTime":1674.778,"body":"little goal, like, right, five minutes in the"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1669.418,"endTime":1674.778,"body":"morning before coffee, and that's your only"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1674.794,"endTime":1678.738,"body":"goal for the day, you will hit that goal,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1674.794,"endTime":1678.738,"body":"you'll feel great, and you might do a little"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1678.754,"endTime":1680.978,"body":"bit more that afternoon, and then that feels"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1678.754,"endTime":1680.978,"body":"pretty good."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1680.994,"endTime":1684.03,"body":"So you end up writing for an hour and a half,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1680.994,"endTime":1684.03,"body":"and that feels great."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1684.77,"endTime":1689.282,"body":"But the setting the tiniest goals is so"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1684.77,"endTime":1689.282,"body":"frustrating to someone like me who needs to"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1689.306,"endTime":1691.966,"body":"move fast and needs to do all the things right"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1689.306,"endTime":1691.966,"body":"now."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1692.138,"endTime":1697.07,"body":"But there are these wins that we set up for"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1692.138,"endTime":1697.07,"body":"ourselves, and then we're not leaving the day"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1697.15,"endTime":1701.63,"body":"again, beating ourselves up for not having"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1697.15,"endTime":1701.63,"body":"gotten the work done."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1701.79,"endTime":1704.718,"body":"But then another really huge, sorry, I just"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1701.79,"endTime":1704.718,"body":"keep going on."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1704.734,"endTime":1706.694,"body":"This is my favorite, one of my favorite"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1704.734,"endTime":1706.694,"body":"stories."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1706.822,"endTime":1707.53,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1707.83,"endTime":1712.262,"body":"But the other thing that I"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1707.83,"endTime":1712.262,"body":"think, and you all do a lot of work with"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1712.286,"endTime":1717.388,"body":"mindset, I think the biggest mindset shift in"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1712.286,"endTime":1717.388,"body":"writing is that."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1717.414,"endTime":1722.512,"body":"That getting your writing done is not about"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1717.414,"endTime":1722.512,"body":"discipline, and it's not about stick to"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1722.536,"endTime":1724.488,"body":"itiveness and it's not about ideas."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1724.584,"endTime":1727.5,"body":"It is about emotional regulation."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1728.56,"endTime":1732.616,"body":"We're speaking our language because"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1728.56,"endTime":1732.616,"body":"when we."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1732.648,"endTime":1737.248,"body":"Sit down to write and we feel"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1732.648,"endTime":1737.248,"body":"like shit and we don't want to do it, and"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1737.264,"endTime":1740.848,"body":"then, in fact, we write, and it's even worse"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1737.264,"endTime":1740.848,"body":"writing than we've ever seen ourselves do"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1740.864,"endTime":1741.42,"body":"before."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1741.84,"endTime":1743.336,"body":"There's only two reactions to that."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1743.368,"endTime":1747.122,"body":"You can get up and walk away, which is what"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1743.368,"endTime":1747.122,"body":"most people do who don't have a community, who"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1747.146,"endTime":1748.25,"body":"aren't talking about these kind of things."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1748.29,"endTime":1749.594,"body":"Most people get up, they stop."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1749.682,"endTime":1751.33,"body":"They say, I'll get back to it tomorrow or the"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1749.682,"endTime":1751.33,"body":"weekend."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1751.37,"endTime":1754.434,"body":"And then two years go by and they never look"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1751.37,"endTime":1754.434,"body":"at that book again."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1754.602,"endTime":1759.114,"body":"Or you can sit down and feel like shit and go,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1754.602,"endTime":1759.114,"body":"okay, I feel like shit today, and that's fine"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1759.202,"endTime":1759.402,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1759.426,"endTime":1761.21,"body":"It's not going to hurt me, and it's not even"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1761.25,"endTime":1763.602,"body":"going to really lower the quality of my words."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1763.706,"endTime":1765.386,"body":"I will not be able to tell this day from"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1765.418,"endTime":1767.682,"body":"another day of writing in two weeks."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1767.826,"endTime":1770.282,"body":"Just sit here for another 25 minutes or 45"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1770.306,"endTime":1773.17,"body":"minutes or whatever your goal was, get some"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1770.306,"endTime":1773.17,"body":"words done and walk away."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1773.29,"endTime":1778.368,"body":"And we learn how to be comfortable with that"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1773.29,"endTime":1778.368,"body":"discomfort, and it's just not a big deal"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1778.504,"endTime":1778.904,"body":"anymore."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1778.952,"endTime":1780.768,"body":"Like, you get up and your partner says, how"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1780.784,"endTime":1783.088,"body":"did you write?"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1780.784,"endTime":1783.088,"body":"And go, ugh, I hated every minute of it, but"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1783.104,"endTime":1783.416,"body":"it's done."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1783.448,"endTime":1784.456,"body":"It was terrible."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1784.648,"endTime":1785.12,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1785.2,"endTime":1787.352,"body":"And eventually, like, it's, you know, tongue"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1787.376,"endTime":1791.96,"body":"in cheek, because then it almost gets to be"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1787.376,"endTime":1791.96,"body":"enjoyable that we're like, it sucks again."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1792.08,"endTime":1796.072,"body":"But we're kind of, you know, giving the middle"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1792.08,"endTime":1796.072,"body":"finger to the critical voice that's sitting"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1796.096,"endTime":1797.128,"body":"over there saying, you suck."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1797.224,"endTime":1798.512,"body":"And you're like, I don't care."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1798.656,"endTime":1799.584,"body":"Keep talking."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1799.632,"endTime":1800.336,"body":"I'm not listening."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1800.408,"endTime":1805.218,"body":"I am in the work, you know?"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1800.408,"endTime":1805.218,"body":"So it is about emotional regulation, accepting"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1805.274,"endTime":1806.282,"body":"that it doesn't feel good."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1806.306,"endTime":1807.27,"body":"And that's fine."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1807.61,"endTime":1808.922,"body":"Yeah, I love that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1808.986,"endTime":1811.658,"body":"That is such important permission because so"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1811.714,"endTime":1816.002,"body":"often, like, none of us are having lots of fun"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1811.714,"endTime":1816.002,"body":"all of the time doing this."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1816.066,"endTime":1817.81,"body":"Right, but we still love it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1817.93,"endTime":1820.282,"body":"And so we get questions all the time, right?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1820.306,"endTime":1824.426,"body":"Where people are like, there's something wrong"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1820.306,"endTime":1824.426,"body":"with me that I'm not having fun."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1824.458,"endTime":1826.626,"body":"And it's like, no, just, welcome to the club."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1826.698,"endTime":1828.786,"body":"Like you said, even scarier."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1828.818,"endTime":1830.234,"body":"They say there's something wrong with my book."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1830.282,"endTime":1831.786,"body":"I've gone the wrong direction."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1831.938,"endTime":1833.186,"body":"I'm screwing it up."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1833.298,"endTime":1833.738,"body":"And they."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1833.794,"endTime":1835.078,"body":"And they, again, like we talked about, they"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1835.114,"endTime":1837.086,"body":"want to fix it right then and there and figure"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1835.114,"endTime":1837.086,"body":"it out."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1837.118,"endTime":1838.526,"body":"But so many times, we can't."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1838.558,"endTime":1839.902,"body":"We're just not smart enough about the book"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1839.926,"endTime":1840.086,"body":"yet."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1840.118,"endTime":1842.87,"body":"The book is teaching us what it will need to"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1842.95,"endTime":1845.998,"body":"have done to it, but we can't get there until"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1842.95,"endTime":1845.998,"body":"we get there."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1846.054,"endTime":1851.406,"body":"And another part of emotional regulation is"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1846.054,"endTime":1851.406,"body":"just going, I will move forward with less"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1851.438,"endTime":1853.49,"body":"clarity than I think I need."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1853.95,"endTime":1855.846,"body":"My perfectionist brain says I need clarity"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1855.878,"endTime":1857.45,"body":"about where I am and where I'm going."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1858.07,"endTime":1861.214,"body":"And emotional regulation says, you're going to"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1861.222,"endTime":1862.502,"body":"do it anyway, and that's okay."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1862.526,"endTime":1863.632,"body":"It's not comfortable."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1863.806,"endTime":1865.868,"body":"You know, have a nice walk and some ice cream"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1863.806,"endTime":1865.868,"body":"afterwards."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1865.924,"endTime":1870.644,"body":"But you can, you will never have as much"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1865.924,"endTime":1870.644,"body":"clarity as you want about your writing."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1870.692,"endTime":1871.64,"body":"So just write."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1871.98,"endTime":1872.852,"body":"This is."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1872.996,"endTime":1873.604,"body":"This is be."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1873.652,"endTime":1878.836,"body":"We're going to sound by, like, so many"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1873.652,"endTime":1878.836,"body":"different pieces, but, like, this is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1878.868,"endTime":1879.292,"body":"incredible."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1879.356,"endTime":1882.132,"body":"Last week, I was teaching a workshop, a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1882.156,"endTime":1882.46,"body":"different."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1882.54,"endTime":1884.628,"body":"A different workshop about very similar"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1884.684,"endTime":1885.28,"body":"things."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1885.62,"endTime":1887.86,"body":"But I was in person with this group of, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1887.9,"endTime":1891.196,"body":"15 other writers, and we were the."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1891.268,"endTime":1893.844,"body":"This workshop was so much overlapped what"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1893.852,"endTime":1896.6,"body":"we're talking now, but it was about building"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1893.852,"endTime":1896.6,"body":"trust."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1896.68,"endTime":1897.944,"body":"Building self trust."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1898.112,"endTime":1898.864,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1899.032,"endTime":1903.6,"body":"And that's exactly what you're talking"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1899.032,"endTime":1903.6,"body":"about with this idea of emotional regulation"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1903.72,"endTime":1907.384,"body":"is like, when you have that trust in yourself,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1903.72,"endTime":1907.384,"body":"you can figure it out."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1907.472,"endTime":1913.032,"body":"Like, it doesn't feel like the world's ending"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1907.472,"endTime":1913.032,"body":"when this plot hole came up, because you're"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1913.056,"endTime":1913.864,"body":"gonna figure it out."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1913.912,"endTime":1914.848,"body":"You just keep going."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1914.944,"endTime":1920.648,"body":"And so we talked a lot about, like, how to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1914.944,"endTime":1920.648,"body":"build self trust, and that was basically what"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1920.664,"endTime":1921.8,"body":"the workshop was about."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1921.84,"endTime":1923.176,"body":"We were examining our beliefs."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1923.208,"endTime":1928.592,"body":"We were learning, like, okay, if we have to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1923.208,"endTime":1928.592,"body":"let go of those things and build self trust in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1928.616,"endTime":1936.072,"body":"its place, and then that frees us up to having"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1928.616,"endTime":1936.072,"body":"the space to write, because I think I have two"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1936.096,"endTime":1936.52,"body":"points."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1936.64,"endTime":1938.552,"body":"This is also, ADHD is like, I have so many"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1938.576,"endTime":1945.696,"body":"things to say about the same thing, but I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1938.576,"endTime":1945.696,"body":"think a lot of writers hit blocks or feel like"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1945.728,"endTime":1949.594,"body":"they can't write because they feel like it's a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1945.728,"endTime":1949.594,"body":"book problem."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1949.762,"endTime":1954.178,"body":"But like, to me, nine times out of ten, I'm"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1949.762,"endTime":1954.178,"body":"like, girl, that ain't not a book problem."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1954.314,"endTime":1955.602,"body":"That's a you problem."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1955.746,"endTime":1957.05,"body":"That's a confidence problem."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1957.13,"endTime":1960.034,"body":"That's a perfectionist in, in hiding, trying"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1960.082,"endTime":1962.51,"body":"to be, trying to get it quote unquote right."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1962.97,"endTime":1964.282,"body":"And there is no right."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1964.386,"endTime":1965.554,"body":"There's no right."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1965.642,"endTime":1967.546,"body":"There's just what you choose and how you make"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1967.578,"endTime":1968.642,"body":"it work."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1968.706,"endTime":1974.21,"body":"And so, so often it manifests as the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1968.706,"endTime":1974.21,"body":"spoken fear of, well, I don't want to waste"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1974.25,"endTime":1974.924,"body":"time."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1975.122,"endTime":1978.6,"body":"And, like, it just is, like, it's a dagger"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1978.64,"endTime":1979.96,"body":"into my heart every single time."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1980.0,"endTime":1982.336,"body":"Because I'm like, girl, you're wasting time"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1982.368,"endTime":1983.456,"body":"right now."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1983.608,"endTime":1987.3,"body":"Like, isn't that the truest truth?"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1987.72,"endTime":1990.712,"body":"Because you are wasting time"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1987.72,"endTime":1990.712,"body":"by not making the decision, by not sitting"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1990.736,"endTime":1994.3,"body":"down for 30 minutes to do the writing, you're"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1990.736,"endTime":1994.3,"body":"wasting time."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1994.6,"endTime":1997.904,"body":"That, that just kind of blew my mind,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1994.6,"endTime":1997.904,"body":"honestly."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1997.952,"endTime":2002.718,"body":"Because that's one of the hardest things to"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":1997.952,"endTime":2002.718,"body":"work through as a newer writer."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2002.774,"endTime":2004.942,"body":"Like, how do I get over this fear of wasting"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2002.774,"endTime":2004.942,"body":"time?"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2005.126,"endTime":2008.054,"body":"Most people waste time and never finish their"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2005.126,"endTime":2008.054,"body":"books."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2008.182,"endTime":2008.806,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2008.918,"endTime":2009.334,"body":"Ever."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2009.422,"endTime":2012.822,"body":"And that was, and you either never"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2009.422,"endTime":2012.822,"body":"finish a book or you hit a point where you're"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2012.846,"endTime":2014.462,"body":"like, I'm fucking sick of this."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2014.566,"endTime":2014.83,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2014.87,"endTime":2015.966,"body":"Which is what happened to me."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2015.998,"endTime":2019.222,"body":"I was like, I've wasted so much time, I got"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2019.246,"endTime":2020.334,"body":"nothing left to lose."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2020.422,"endTime":2021.79,"body":"And that was when I did that eight weeks."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2021.83,"endTime":2023.646,"body":"And I don't want to be like, oh, it was eight"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2021.83,"endTime":2023.646,"body":"weeks."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2023.678,"endTime":2024.342,"body":"I wrote a book."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2024.406,"endTime":2025.366,"body":"I thought it was going to be trash."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2025.398,"endTime":2026.262,"body":"And then I saved all of it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2026.286,"endTime":2029.174,"body":"Like, I threw out a lot of it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2029.262,"endTime":2030.222,"body":"But you learned that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2030.246,"endTime":2033.068,"body":"I figured out a. Yes, I figured out what the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2033.084,"endTime":2037.004,"body":"book was actually about and then immediately"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2033.084,"endTime":2037.004,"body":"was able to do an outline for the revision"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2037.052,"endTime":2038.716,"body":"and, like, figure out how to move forward from"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2037.052,"endTime":2038.716,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2038.748,"endTime":2042.94,"body":"And so, yeah, I did quote unquote heavy, quote"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2038.748,"endTime":2042.94,"body":"unquote waste."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2043.02,"endTime":2043.26,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2043.3,"endTime":2045.652,"body":"Those eight weeks of the actual words."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2045.756,"endTime":2047.788,"body":"But, like, people have to realize that if"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2047.804,"endTime":2051.356,"body":"you're going to be a sustainable writer who"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2047.804,"endTime":2051.356,"body":"writes book after book, you have to get used"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2051.388,"endTime":2051.724,"body":"to that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2051.772,"endTime":2055.308,"body":"You got to get used to throwing out chunks of"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2055.324,"endTime":2058.604,"body":"it in the interest of figuring out what the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2055.324,"endTime":2058.604,"body":"heck you're trying to say."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2058.652,"endTime":2059.684,"body":"Yeah, and that's kind of weight."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2059.772,"endTime":2060.108,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2060.164,"endTime":2060.884,"body":"It's not."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2061.012,"endTime":2062.82,"body":"Yeah, that's my point."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2062.98,"endTime":2064.52,"body":"That's what I'm trying to say."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2064.9,"endTime":2069.82,"body":"But also, I am not against a"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2064.9,"endTime":2069.82,"body":"benevolent lie to yourself."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2069.94,"endTime":2072.516,"body":"Like, you know, I don't, I don't want to waste"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2069.94,"endTime":2072.516,"body":"time."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2072.548,"endTime":2073.9,"body":"This is not going to be a waste of time."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2073.94,"endTime":2075.028,"body":"Even in the back of your mind, it's like,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2075.044,"endTime":2076.804,"body":"yeah, it's not going to be a waste of time."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2076.932,"endTime":2077.84,"body":"It's okay."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2078.26,"endTime":2079.692,"body":"Like, tell yourself it won't be."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2079.716,"endTime":2081.252,"body":"It's exactly the same thing that we do in"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2081.276,"endTime":2081.588,"body":"revision."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2081.644,"endTime":2083.532,"body":"When we cut it, we cut the perfect scene."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2083.596,"endTime":2085.836,"body":"Like this scene, we know it can't fit here."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2085.908,"endTime":2087.538,"body":"And we put it over into the."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2087.684,"endTime":2091.75,"body":"To the cuts file, which is also known as the I"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2087.684,"endTime":2091.75,"body":"will use this no matter what files."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2091.87,"endTime":2094.566,"body":"And we're telling ourselves, I'm coming back"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2091.87,"endTime":2094.566,"body":"for you, baby."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2094.678,"endTime":2098.022,"body":"All these words, you're going to make it in,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2094.678,"endTime":2098.022,"body":"and the back of our brain goes, of course"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2098.046,"endTime":2098.302,"body":"we're not."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2098.326,"endTime":2099.95,"body":"We have never gone into that trash once."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2100.07,"endTime":2101.046,"body":"We're not going to go get it out."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2101.078,"endTime":2103.158,"body":"But we lie to ourselves benevolently and"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2103.174,"endTime":2103.734,"body":"kindly."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2103.822,"endTime":2104.53,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2105.15,"endTime":2106.646,"body":"None of that is wasted words."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2106.758,"endTime":2107.558,"body":"We're going to use you."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2107.614,"endTime":2108.278,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2108.454,"endTime":2108.878,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2108.934,"endTime":2112.662,"body":"I think that's what's so hard about the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2108.934,"endTime":2112.662,"body":"self trust thing for newer writers, is you."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2112.766,"endTime":2116.118,"body":"It's hard to have self trust when you haven't"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2112.766,"endTime":2116.118,"body":"proven something to yourself yet."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2116.254,"endTime":2120.822,"body":"And so, so that's where, like, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2116.254,"endTime":2120.822,"body":"little benevolent lies can come in."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2120.846,"endTime":2125.23,"body":"Or, like, just trust us when we say, like,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2120.846,"endTime":2125.23,"body":"take them on borrowed."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2125.35,"endTime":2126.158,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2126.214,"endTime":2126.63,"body":"Totally."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2126.67,"endTime":2130.39,"body":"Borrow other people's trust because you have"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2126.67,"endTime":2130.39,"body":"to do it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2130.55,"endTime":2131.782,"body":"You have to do it before."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2131.846,"endTime":2132.158,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2132.214,"endTime":2133.69,"body":"Take our workshop in my class."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2134.43,"endTime":2136.038,"body":"I'll teach you how to do this."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2136.134,"endTime":2137.662,"body":"Learn how to self trust."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2137.806,"endTime":2141.206,"body":"But, like, the only way to build self"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2137.806,"endTime":2141.206,"body":"trust is to do the thing when you don't"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2141.238,"endTime":2142.046,"body":"believe you can do it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2142.078,"endTime":2143.358,"body":"To prove that you can do it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2143.414,"endTime":2144.43,"body":"That's the only way."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2144.55,"endTime":2148.262,"body":"My class is, like, small, repeatable"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2144.55,"endTime":2148.262,"body":"actions over time."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2148.366,"endTime":2150.25,"body":"Build trust and create progress."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2150.33,"endTime":2152.442,"body":"And that's way better than doing nothing and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2152.466,"endTime":2155.37,"body":"hating yourself for it and building."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2155.41,"endTime":2159.426,"body":"Up that muscle of remembering"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2155.41,"endTime":2159.426,"body":"that it's about emotional regulation."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2159.498,"endTime":2163.21,"body":"Because in the next, like, you can have so"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2159.498,"endTime":2163.21,"body":"much trust in yourself and the next little"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2163.25,"endTime":2166.85,"body":"bridge that you've got across after 30 books,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2163.25,"endTime":2166.85,"body":"you're like, I can, I can."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2166.89,"endTime":2167.802,"body":"I don't trust myself."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2167.906,"endTime":2169.826,"body":"So getting used to also saying, okay, it's"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2169.858,"endTime":2170.042,"body":"okay."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2170.066,"endTime":2171.282,"body":"You don't have to trust yourself in this"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2171.306,"endTime":2171.506,"body":"moment."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2171.538,"endTime":2172.474,"body":"Just keep moving forward."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2172.522,"endTime":2173.322,"body":"You're not gonna die."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2173.386,"endTime":2176.03,"body":"I love the whole, the old, like, Indiana Jones"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2176.66,"endTime":2181.748,"body":"cliche of him stepping out into the abyss and"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2176.66,"endTime":2181.748,"body":"then the bridge swinging, and he's on the"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2181.764,"endTime":2182.084,"body":"bridge."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2182.132,"endTime":2183.572,"body":"You know, I think about that a lot."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2183.596,"endTime":2185.76,"body":"The bridge is there, move forward."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2186.58,"endTime":2190.388,"body":"What's the words, that leap of the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2186.58,"endTime":2190.388,"body":"pen, like, leap of the penitent, whatever it"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2190.404,"endTime":2190.556,"body":"is."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2190.588,"endTime":2192.556,"body":"I think about that all the time."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2192.748,"endTime":2194.48,"body":"Yes. It's so good."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2198.22,"endTime":2202.132,"body":"Yeah. So this is like, this is hard."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2202.316,"endTime":2205.492,"body":"It takes work, but unless you try, you get"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2205.556,"endTime":2206.124,"body":"nowhere."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2206.212,"endTime":2208.692,"body":"And, like, I think what most people are afraid"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2208.716,"endTime":2211.756,"body":"of is trying and then being bad at it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2211.828,"endTime":2214.076,"body":"But even with, like, mindset stuff, you still"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2214.108,"endTime":2215.06,"body":"are not good at it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2215.1,"endTime":2218.732,"body":"Like, it takes more time to figure it out and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2218.796,"endTime":2221.828,"body":"to figure out which expectations feel good to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2218.796,"endTime":2221.828,"body":"lower."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2221.884,"endTime":2227.82,"body":"And then I also think there's this reaction"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2221.884,"endTime":2227.82,"body":"that we have, like, well, if I lower my"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2227.86,"endTime":2232.796,"body":"expectations the whole rest of my life, I'm a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2227.86,"endTime":2232.796,"body":"person who lowers expectations."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2232.948,"endTime":2237.132,"body":"Yes. And I'm like, suddenly"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2232.948,"endTime":2237.132,"body":"I'm living under a bridge doing drugs that are"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2237.156,"endTime":2239.82,"body":"very expensive, you know, like, my fear."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2239.98,"endTime":2244.508,"body":"It's so funny you say that, because"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2239.98,"endTime":2244.508,"body":"Emily and I did business coaching once, and we"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2244.524,"endTime":2245.78,"body":"have a wonderful business coach."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2245.82,"endTime":2246.66,"body":"She's fantastic."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2246.7,"endTime":2250.492,"body":"But she was asking us our fears, and that's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2246.7,"endTime":2250.492,"body":"literally what was mine, was that, like, our"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2250.516,"endTime":2254.52,"body":"business is gonna fail, I'm gonna live under a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2250.516,"endTime":2254.52,"body":"bridge, and we're gonna die."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2256.02,"endTime":2258.292,"body":"Fair. Fair, too."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2258.396,"endTime":2260.108,"body":"I've had that fear since I went full time in"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2260.124,"endTime":2260.756,"body":"2016."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2260.828,"endTime":2261.786,"body":"That has been my first."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2261.908,"endTime":2264.27,"body":"And I've made more money every year that I"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2261.908,"endTime":2264.27,"body":"have."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2264.31,"endTime":2264.99,"body":"Every year."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2265.11,"endTime":2265.902,"body":"Every year."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2266.006,"endTime":2270.63,"body":"But, yeah, just continuing is"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2266.006,"endTime":2270.63,"body":"hard."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2270.79,"endTime":2280.67,"body":"But the thing that, like, breaks my heart the"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2270.79,"endTime":2280.67,"body":"most is that nobody, I think that most people,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2280.83,"endTime":2284.494,"body":"almost nobody, decides, I'm not gonna continue"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2280.83,"endTime":2284.494,"body":"this writing life."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2284.542,"endTime":2286.206,"body":"I'm gonna stop most people."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2286.238,"endTime":2288.046,"body":"What they say is, I don't wanna do it today,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2288.078,"endTime":2290.318,"body":"I'll do it tomorrow, and then I'll do it this"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2288.078,"endTime":2290.318,"body":"weekend."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2290.454,"endTime":2292.238,"body":"You know what?"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2290.454,"endTime":2292.238,"body":"Next week, when the kids are off school, I'll"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2292.254,"endTime":2293.064,"body":"do some."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2293.262,"endTime":2295.08,"body":"Nobody actually has that thought."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2295.38,"endTime":2296.636,"body":"I'm going to give up on this book."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2296.668,"endTime":2298.276,"body":"And I don't believe there's a book that can't"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2298.308,"endTime":2298.956,"body":"be saved."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2299.068,"endTime":2300.044,"body":"I really don't."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2300.172,"endTime":2304.492,"body":"You'll also hear those unicorn blowhards on"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2300.172,"endTime":2304.492,"body":"podcasts saying, well, you know, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2304.516,"endTime":2308.948,"body":"finish that book that didn't deserve to see"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2304.516,"endTime":2308.948,"body":"the light of day, which pushed the fear of God"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2309.004,"endTime":2309.948,"body":"into other people's hearts."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2309.964,"endTime":2312.132,"body":"Like, what if my book doesn't deserve to see"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2312.156,"endTime":2315.98,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2312.156,"endTime":2315.98,"body":"Every book is revisable, saveable, but people"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2316.02,"endTime":2318.436,"body":"walk away because they're scared and they"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2316.02,"endTime":2318.436,"body":"don't know that."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2318.468,"endTime":2319.172,"body":"They're not thinking that."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2319.196,"endTime":2320.668,"body":"They're just thinking, I'm really busy, and I"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2320.684,"endTime":2322.72,"body":"need to work on the taxes."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2323.28,"endTime":2326.54,"body":"So if you all are doing, like, one thing,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2327.2,"endTime":2331.488,"body":"you're telling people with this podcast and"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2327.2,"endTime":2331.488,"body":"with your classes that, like, don't walk away"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2331.544,"endTime":2332.048,"body":"from it."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2332.104,"endTime":2333.368,"body":"Don't just keep coming back."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2333.424,"endTime":2335.776,"body":"Just keep coming back no matter what."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2335.928,"endTime":2340.408,"body":"Coming back in the smallest ways, and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2335.928,"endTime":2340.408,"body":"it builds."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2340.504,"endTime":2341.128,"body":"Sorry, Emily."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2341.184,"endTime":2342.272,"body":"You know, that's okay."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2342.376,"endTime":2343.832,"body":"I love what you're saying about emotional"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2343.896,"endTime":2344.504,"body":"regulation."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2344.632,"endTime":2347.28,"body":"I feel like that's so, like, I've been reading"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2347.32,"endTime":2348.104,"body":"a lot of."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2348.272,"endTime":2350.38,"body":"Do you guys know who Brianna waste is?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2352.13,"endTime":2353.15,"body":"She's like."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2354.41,"endTime":2355.79,"body":"She self publishes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2357.17,"endTime":2361.778,"body":"Self help is the worst word I can come up with"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2357.17,"endTime":2361.778,"body":"for what they are."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2361.954,"endTime":2363.194,"body":"Prescriptive nonfiction."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2363.282,"endTime":2369.95,"body":"Yeah. She does a lot of really poetic"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2363.282,"endTime":2369.95,"body":"writings about how to change your life and"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2370.29,"endTime":2371.154,"body":"things like that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2371.242,"endTime":2373.962,"body":"And I'm reading something of hers right now"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2373.986,"endTime":2378.81,"body":"where she talks about this idea of, if you"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2373.986,"endTime":2378.81,"body":"feel strongly about something, even if your"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2378.85,"endTime":2383.126,"body":"feelings are very negative, fear and doubt and"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2378.85,"endTime":2383.126,"body":"all these things, it means you're on the right"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2383.158,"endTime":2386.422,"body":"path, because if you didn't actually care and"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2383.158,"endTime":2386.422,"body":"you didn't actually want to go down this path,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2386.446,"endTime":2387.646,"body":"then you would feel apathy."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2387.718,"endTime":2389.182,"body":"You would feel nothing at all."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2389.326,"endTime":2393.766,"body":"And I just thought that was a really beautiful"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2389.326,"endTime":2393.766,"body":"way to kind of reframe, like, all of these"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2393.798,"endTime":2397.366,"body":"emotions don't mean that, like, you're not"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2393.798,"endTime":2397.366,"body":"meant to write just because it's hard to write"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2397.398,"endTime":2400.15,"body":"or just because it's miserable every time you"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2397.398,"endTime":2400.15,"body":"sit down."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2400.19,"endTime":2401.93,"body":"Like, it has been for me this summer."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2402.47,"endTime":2405.206,"body":"Like, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2405.238,"endTime":2407.97,"body":"there or you are trying to do the wrong thing."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2408.47,"endTime":2409.054,"body":"So I just."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2409.102,"endTime":2411.12,"body":"I like that phrase, emotional."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2412.26,"endTime":2413.044,"body":"I'm gonna look her up."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2413.052,"endTime":2416.108,"body":"And that also makes me think of, oh, gosh, why"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2416.124,"endTime":2420.66,"body":"have I just written the war of art by Stephen"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2416.124,"endTime":2420.66,"body":"Pressfield, where he talks about resistance."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2420.74,"endTime":2424.652,"body":"Our resistance is the compass pointing to true"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2420.74,"endTime":2424.652,"body":"north."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2424.716,"endTime":2425.38,"body":"It's the same thing."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2425.42,"endTime":2427.508,"body":"The more resistance you feel, the more it"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2427.524,"endTime":2428.852,"body":"means you have to go in that direction."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2428.956,"endTime":2431.116,"body":"And the closer we get to completing something,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2431.268,"endTime":2433.2,"body":"the more resistance arises."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2433.78,"endTime":2434.948,"body":"So you must go."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2435.004,"endTime":2436.24,"body":"End paralysis."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2436.9,"endTime":2438.32,"body":"That's what I call it."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2439.3,"endTime":2440.388,"body":"End paralysis."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2440.444,"endTime":2442.728,"body":"And that is when resistance, capital r as a"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2442.744,"endTime":2444.856,"body":"force, is at its strongest."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2445.048,"endTime":2447.536,"body":"And the only thing that breaks it down is just"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2447.568,"endTime":2451.864,"body":"a repeated ignoring of it said, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2447.568,"endTime":2451.864,"body":"sitting in the corner and saying, yeah, you"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2451.872,"endTime":2454.096,"body":"suck, but I'm not listening to you."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2454.208,"endTime":2454.528,"body":"You know?"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2454.544,"endTime":2458.216,"body":"What's that, Elizabeth Gilbert?"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2454.544,"endTime":2458.216,"body":"That, you know, the editor can sit in the car,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2458.248,"endTime":2463.752,"body":"but it's got to sit in the backseat, and under"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2458.248,"endTime":2463.752,"body":"no conditions can touch the radio."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2463.936,"endTime":2465.44,"body":"It cannot touch the volume control."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2465.52,"endTime":2467.168,"body":"Like, you could be there, but just don't"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2467.184,"endTime":2467.798,"body":"touch."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2467.984,"endTime":2468.802,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2468.986,"endTime":2469.75,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2470.13,"endTime":2473.714,"body":"There's also, like, still so much"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2470.13,"endTime":2473.714,"body":"value, though, in recognizing that the editor"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2473.762,"endTime":2474.602,"body":"is in the car."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2474.746,"endTime":2477.57,"body":"Like, I think there are a ton of writers that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2477.61,"endTime":2484.162,"body":"have no. Like, that, just that they haven't"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2477.61,"endTime":2484.162,"body":"taken that next step of being like, oh, I'm"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2484.226,"endTime":2487.682,"body":"acting as though I'm trying to edit this into"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2484.226,"endTime":2487.682,"body":"perfection."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2487.866,"endTime":2491.154,"body":"Here's a realization here's a self awareness"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2487.866,"endTime":2491.154,"body":"moment."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2491.242,"endTime":2494.046,"body":"Like, there's a lot of people that don't get"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2491.242,"endTime":2494.046,"body":"to that step, even."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2494.118,"endTime":2498.542,"body":"They're just, like, grinding their gears day"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2494.118,"endTime":2498.542,"body":"after day or not."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2498.646,"endTime":2503.182,"body":"Like, they're failing to write day after day,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2498.646,"endTime":2503.182,"body":"but they don't even look behind them and be"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2503.206,"endTime":2505.63,"body":"like, oh, there's a voice there."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2505.71,"endTime":2507.758,"body":"And it's telling me things that aren't true."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2507.934,"endTime":2511.67,"body":"And what's wonderful about"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2507.934,"endTime":2511.67,"body":"knowing that is when we learn that the voice"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2511.79,"endTime":2517.614,"body":"is, like, provably, demonstrably not ours"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2511.79,"endTime":2517.614,"body":"alone, because everybody hears the same exact"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2517.662,"endTime":2518.134,"body":"thing."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2518.262,"endTime":2519.158,"body":"Everybody hears."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2519.254,"endTime":2520.186,"body":"No one's interested."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2520.318,"endTime":2521.138,"body":"Who are you?"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2521.234,"endTime":2522.29,"body":"You're not talented enough."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2522.33,"endTime":2523.618,"body":"You don't have enough information."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2523.794,"endTime":2524.706,"body":"You're wasting your time."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2524.738,"endTime":2526.554,"body":"We're all hearing the exact same radio"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2526.602,"endTime":2531.81,"body":"station, and if we can, and we can learn to"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2526.602,"endTime":2531.81,"body":"turn that down and do the work anyway, it's."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2531.97,"endTime":2534.842,"body":"We've just gotten, like, two different radio"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2531.97,"endTime":2534.842,"body":"metaphors, so please forgive us."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2534.866,"endTime":2539.83,"body":"But like, that, yeah, it's just the voice."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2540.65,"endTime":2542.25,"body":"I hope that somebody's brand new to writing"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2542.29,"endTime":2544.73,"body":"and hearing this and going, oh, I'm not alone."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2544.85,"endTime":2545.954,"body":"I'm sure they are."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2546.002,"endTime":2547.62,"body":"I'm absolutely sure they are."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2547.77,"endTime":2548.544,"body":"Me too."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2548.672,"endTime":2549.272,"body":"This is."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2549.336,"endTime":2550.78,"body":"This is so wonderful."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2551.2,"endTime":2554.064,"body":"We are gonna start wrapping up, but do you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2554.072,"endTime":2558.86,"body":"have any, like, final thoughts on"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2554.072,"endTime":2558.86,"body":"expectations, lowering them, hustle culture,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2561.16,"endTime":2562.16,"body":"no pressure."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2562.28,"endTime":2564.336,"body":"Dismantle this whole thing for us in a sound"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2564.368,"endTime":2565.472,"body":"bite in 2 seconds."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2565.536,"endTime":2566.14,"body":"Go."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2567.84,"endTime":2570.808,"body":"I think it comes back to this"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2567.84,"endTime":2570.808,"body":"fear that we were talking about, that if we"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2570.824,"endTime":2575.14,"body":"lower our expectations, we are going to be"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2570.824,"endTime":2575.14,"body":"solidified emotional, physical, spiritual,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2575.18,"endTime":2578.516,"body":"mentally, mental failure in all ways."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2578.668,"endTime":2582.812,"body":"And what regularly lowering my expectations"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2582.956,"endTime":2588.24,"body":"around my creative life has done over many"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2582.956,"endTime":2588.24,"body":"years has made me more prolific, more joyful."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2588.58,"endTime":2589.5,"body":"It keeps me in the seat."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2589.54,"endTime":2591.7,"body":"It keeps me loving my job, but it also bleeds"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2591.74,"endTime":2593.772,"body":"into everything else I do."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2593.956,"endTime":2594.916,"body":"Literally everything."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2595.028,"endTime":2597.82,"body":"Like, we moved to New Zealand three years ago."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2597.86,"endTime":2599.892,"body":"We sold our house and left all of our friends"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2599.916,"endTime":2603.246,"body":"and family and moved here because I was like,"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2599.916,"endTime":2603.246,"body":"yeah, you know, if we."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2603.358,"endTime":2605.182,"body":"Let's lower our expectations, we'll do the"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2603.358,"endTime":2605.182,"body":"best we can."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2605.206,"endTime":2607.302,"body":"If we need to turn around and go back, we"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2605.206,"endTime":2607.302,"body":"will."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2607.446,"endTime":2608.55,"body":"It it."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2608.71,"endTime":2612.486,"body":"Learning that progressively not quite hitting"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2612.518,"endTime":2617.182,"body":"your expectations, but always moving toward a"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2612.518,"endTime":2617.182,"body":"spectacular goal, gets you there."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2617.326,"endTime":2617.75,"body":"It just."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2617.79,"endTime":2618.814,"body":"It doesn't have to be linear."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2618.862,"endTime":2620.102,"body":"It doesn't have to be beautiful."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2620.246,"endTime":2622.398,"body":"You just have to keep showing up, and it"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2622.454,"endTime":2623.718,"body":"becomes joyful."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2623.854,"endTime":2625.99,"body":"So, yeah, I love it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2626.03,"endTime":2627.276,"body":"Beautiful way to end."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2627.438,"endTime":2627.928,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2628.024,"endTime":2629.184,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2629.312,"endTime":2630.432,"body":"Thank you so much for having"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2629.312,"endTime":2630.432,"body":"me."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2630.456,"endTime":2631.912,"body":"This has been an absolute delight."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2632.056,"endTime":2632.568,"body":"It was."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2632.624,"endTime":2637.32,"body":"So can you tell us as we wrap up where"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2632.624,"endTime":2637.32,"body":"listeners can find you and how they can"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2637.36,"endTime":2638.46,"body":"connect with you."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2638.84,"endTime":2641.248,"body":"Yes. If you have liked"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2638.84,"endTime":2641.248,"body":"anything that I have said, I would love to"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2641.264,"endTime":2646.672,"body":"have you on my writer's email list where I"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2641.264,"endTime":2646.672,"body":"just send out writer encouragement and I send"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2646.696,"endTime":2652.176,"body":"as much information for free as I can get that"},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2646.696,"endTime":2652.176,"body":"I don't believe in gatekeeping, any of that."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2652.328,"endTime":2653.272,"body":"I like to give."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2653.376,"endTime":2654.32,"body":"I like to give it all away."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2654.36,"endTime":2657.11,"body":"And that's at rachel heron.com write."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2657.61,"endTime":2659.106,"body":"So that'll be in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2659.138,"endTime":2660.77,"body":"Apparently so thank you exactly."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2660.89,"endTime":2663.154,"body":"Writing it down right now so I can put it in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2663.162,"endTime":2663.914,"body":"the show notes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2664.042,"endTime":2664.994,"body":"That's fantastic."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2665.042,"endTime":2667.042,"body":"Thank you so much again for joining us."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2667.146,"endTime":2669.226,"body":"And everyone go listen to ink in your veins as"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2669.258,"endTime":2669.474,"body":"well."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2669.522,"endTime":2672.314,"body":"We'll put a link to Rachel's podcast there"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2672.362,"endTime":2672.978,"body":"too."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2673.154,"endTime":2673.642,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Rachael Herron","startTime":2673.666,"endTime":2674.266,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2674.378,"endTime":2677.658,"body":"If you want to build a successful,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2674.378,"endTime":2677.658,"body":"fulfilling, and sustainable writing life that"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2677.674,"endTime":2679.898,"body":"works for you, you've got to get on our email"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2677.674,"endTime":2679.898,"body":"list."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2680.034,"endTime":2682.018,"body":"Sign up now to get our free email"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2680.034,"endTime":2682.018,"body":"course."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2682.074,"endTime":2686.562,"body":"The magic of character arcs after seven days"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2682.074,"endTime":2686.562,"body":"of Email magic, you'll have the power to keep"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2686.586,"endTime":2688.838,"body":"your readers flipping pages all through the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2686.586,"endTime":2688.838,"body":"night."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2688.974,"endTime":2689.894,"body":"Link in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2689.942,"endTime":2690.39,"body":"We'll see you there."}]}