{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":13.76,"endTime":14.336,"body":"Hey, writers."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":14.336,"endTime":16.233,"body":"Welcome back to Story Magic, the podcast that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":16.249,"endTime":18.193,"body":"will help you write a book you're damn proud"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":16.249,"endTime":18.193,"body":"of."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":18.289,"endTime":19.233,"body":"I'm Emily."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":19.409,"endTime":20.485,"body":"I'm Rachel."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":20.825,"endTime":27.647,"body":"Today we are talking about how and when"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":20.825,"endTime":27.647,"body":"to apply your story point or the message of"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":27.671,"endTime":28.591,"body":"your story."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":28.783,"endTime":31.727,"body":"So this came from a listener, if you were not"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":31.751,"endTime":32.391,"body":"aware."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":32.543,"endTime":34.151,"body":"We've mentioned it a few times for the last"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":34.183,"endTime":37.591,"body":"few weeks, but if you were not aware, we do"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":34.183,"endTime":37.591,"body":"take listener questions."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":37.623,"endTime":42.463,"body":"So if you have a question about anything"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":37.623,"endTime":42.463,"body":"writing related, we will answer it on the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":42.479,"endTime":43.191,"body":"podcast."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":43.343,"endTime":46.031,"body":"You just have to send the question over to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":46.183,"endTime":51.583,"body":"podcastoldenmayediting.com with podcast"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":46.183,"endTime":51.583,"body":"question in the subject line."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":51.639,"endTime":52.435,"body":"And we."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":52.735,"endTime":55.635,"body":"We'll read it on air and we will answer it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":56.775,"endTime":62.599,"body":"And it can be as coherent or not coherent as"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":56.775,"endTime":62.599,"body":"you want."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":62.647,"endTime":64.583,"body":"Usually we can see right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":64.719,"endTime":66.111,"body":"Right through to the core of what you're"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":66.143,"endTime":66.455,"body":"asking."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":66.495,"endTime":68.247,"body":"So if you're struggling with something, write"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":68.271,"endTime":68.847,"body":"to us about it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":68.871,"endTime":71.555,"body":"We'd be happy to chat it through."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":72.175,"endTime":78.839,"body":"So this question comes from Kayla, and Kayla"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":72.175,"endTime":78.839,"body":"asks, is it possible to back into a story"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":78.887,"endTime":81.875,"body":"point?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":78.887,"endTime":81.875,"body":"I have a lot of content, slash ideas that are"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":81.915,"endTime":86.155,"body":"pretty well developed in regards to how I want"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":81.915,"endTime":86.155,"body":"my story to proceed and what I want from my"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":86.195,"endTime":87.779,"body":"two main characters and their arcs."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":87.827,"endTime":90.147,"body":"But I'm not sure how to craft a story point"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":90.171,"endTime":90.699,"body":"from the ideas."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":90.747,"endTime":93.003,"body":"I have ideas that I feel passionate about,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":93.059,"endTime":94.355,"body":"slash what to show."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":94.515,"endTime":96.611,"body":"I am wondering if I can take those ideas and"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":96.643,"endTime":100.515,"body":"create the story point from that angle instead"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":96.643,"endTime":100.515,"body":"of starting with a story point."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":100.635,"endTime":102.683,"body":"My process so far has been all over the place."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":102.739,"endTime":103.771,"body":"I will start to."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":103.843,"endTime":108.175,"body":"I will start to draft, thinking I have enough"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":103.843,"endTime":108.175,"body":"things figured out."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":108.695,"endTime":111.431,"body":"Then I will learn more about craft and see"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":108.695,"endTime":111.431,"body":"that I have holes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":111.543,"endTime":115.359,"body":"I am a plotter by nature, but as I learn more"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":111.543,"endTime":115.359,"body":"about craft, I don't feel like I plotted"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":115.407,"endTime":116.199,"body":"enough in the beginning."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":116.247,"endTime":118.755,"body":"I'm going back to the basics, so to speak."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":120.535,"endTime":124.831,"body":"This is a really good one and a lot to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":120.535,"endTime":124.831,"body":"unpack here because we have both, like, a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":124.863,"endTime":130.715,"body":"craft question and we have a process fear of,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":124.863,"endTime":130.715,"body":"like, I'm not doing enough."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":131.495,"endTime":132.231,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":132.383,"endTime":135.359,"body":"So we can start with the craft part of this."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":135.487,"endTime":137.355,"body":"Yeah. Let's start with the story point."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":137.765,"endTime":139.821,"body":"Yeah. If you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":139.893,"endTime":141.597,"body":"If this is a new term to you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":141.661,"endTime":148.145,"body":"The story point is a term that Lisa Krahn uses"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":141.661,"endTime":148.145,"body":"and that we also use to talk about the main"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":148.765,"endTime":150.701,"body":"takeaway of a story."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":150.813,"endTime":152.573,"body":"You're reading a book, you're like, why is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":152.589,"endTime":154.165,"body":"this story?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":152.589,"endTime":154.165,"body":"What am I doing here?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":154.205,"endTime":155.485,"body":"What am I learning?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":154.205,"endTime":155.485,"body":"What's going through?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":155.525,"endTime":161.381,"body":"Like, the story point is that lesson that your"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":155.525,"endTime":161.381,"body":"character is learning and also the same lesson"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":161.413,"endTime":165.785,"body":"you want your Readers, to learn through your"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":161.413,"endTime":165.785,"body":"character's journey of change."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":165.945,"endTime":170.033,"body":"We have a whole episode on story point and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":165.945,"endTime":170.033,"body":"theme."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":170.169,"endTime":171.865,"body":"It's episode 21."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":171.985,"endTime":173.905,"body":"It's called theme, story, and character."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":173.945,"endTime":174.513,"body":"Oh, my."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":174.609,"endTime":175.705,"body":"With Emma Desi."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":175.785,"endTime":177.857,"body":"So if you're like, I don't know anything about"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":175.785,"endTime":177.857,"body":"story point."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":177.881,"endTime":179.169,"body":"What are you talking about?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":177.881,"endTime":179.169,"body":"Pause."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":179.217,"endTime":184.537,"body":"Now go listen to that, and you'll feel a lot"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":179.217,"endTime":184.537,"body":"more grounded in what we're about to talk"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":184.561,"endTime":185.125,"body":"about."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":186.705,"endTime":188.005,"body":"Yeah, so."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":189.515,"endTime":191.135,"body":"So I think they're."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":192.075,"endTime":195.467,"body":"I mean, the simple answer is yes, yes, yes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":195.491,"endTime":197.171,"body":"You're back into a story point."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":197.323,"endTime":198.203,"body":"End of podcast."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":198.259,"endTime":198.563,"body":"Boom."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":198.619,"endTime":204.403,"body":"Absolutely. Like, I was about to dive"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":198.619,"endTime":204.403,"body":"into, like, some, like, deeper stuff, but I'm"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":204.419,"endTime":206.611,"body":"like, no, the answer is yes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":206.803,"endTime":209.747,"body":"There's no right way to, like, implement a"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":209.771,"endTime":210.275,"body":"craft tool."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":210.315,"endTime":211.683,"body":"And I think this is kind of a process"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":211.739,"endTime":212.339,"body":"question, too."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":212.387,"endTime":212.619,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":212.667,"endTime":217.973,"body":"Of. We talk about this all the time because no"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":212.667,"endTime":217.973,"body":"one talks about it enough, which is."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":218.029,"endTime":218.293,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":218.349,"endTime":221.317,"body":"Craft tools like plotting structures, story"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":221.381,"endTime":225.437,"body":"point, terms like that, like, these are just"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":221.381,"endTime":225.437,"body":"tools in your tool belt for you to pull out"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":225.461,"endTime":227.717,"body":"whenever you need them and whenever you're"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":225.461,"endTime":227.717,"body":"ready for them."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":227.821,"endTime":233.505,"body":"And everybody's process is different for how"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":227.821,"endTime":233.505,"body":"and when they apply stuff."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":234.925,"endTime":241.437,"body":"Yes. So I think, like, there."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":241.501,"endTime":243.549,"body":"There are so many different pieces of, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":243.597,"endTime":247.705,"body":"how characters can come to you, and a lot of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":243.597,"endTime":247.705,"body":"people can start with, like, a really so solid"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":247.745,"endTime":251.625,"body":"vision of who their characters are and be"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":247.745,"endTime":251.625,"body":"like, I know I want to tell a story about this"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":251.665,"endTime":254.497,"body":"character because they never leave me alone,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":251.665,"endTime":254.497,"body":"and I love them to death."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":254.601,"endTime":257.457,"body":"And then you're like, well, I need to make a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":254.601,"endTime":257.457,"body":"story point for them."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":257.601,"endTime":261.313,"body":"And you're kind of doing it what I would say"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":257.601,"endTime":261.313,"body":"in massive air quotes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":261.449,"endTime":262.049,"body":"Backwards."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":262.137,"endTime":262.361,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":262.393,"endTime":264.225,"body":"Like, but there is no backwards."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":264.385,"endTime":264.897,"body":"The."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":265.001,"endTime":270.865,"body":"The idea of having a story point just means"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":265.001,"endTime":270.865,"body":"that you have a central theme to your story."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":270.905,"endTime":271.537,"body":"You haven't."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":271.641,"endTime":274.481,"body":"You have a main lesson that you're talking"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":274.513,"endTime":274.969,"body":"about."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":275.097,"endTime":277.777,"body":"But how you come up with that lesson can be at"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":277.801,"endTime":283.185,"body":"whatever point in the process that you need"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":277.801,"endTime":283.185,"body":"with you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":283.225,"endTime":286.457,"body":"You just asked me this, and I'm kind of going"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":283.225,"endTime":286.457,"body":"to go back on what you said, what you asked"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":286.481,"endTime":289.685,"body":"me, Emily, and how I answered you earlier,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":286.481,"endTime":289.685,"body":"before we started recording."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":290.785,"endTime":291.865,"body":"What did I ask you?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":291.945,"endTime":292.601,"body":"No, it's just."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":292.633,"endTime":295.337,"body":"It's like, this is messy for me, but I think"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":295.361,"endTime":302.867,"body":"it's messy for everybody because, yeah, it is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":295.361,"endTime":302.867,"body":"a constant revision process, too, where, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":302.931,"endTime":308.003,"body":"okay, when I started writing Blood in the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":302.931,"endTime":308.003,"body":"Water, I knew those characters first."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":308.179,"endTime":313.579,"body":"I knew who they were, I knew what story I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":308.179,"endTime":313.579,"body":"wanted to tell, and I, like, had a general"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":313.667,"endTime":320.299,"body":"idea of what the story point would be, but I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":313.667,"endTime":320.299,"body":"definitely did not have words to it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":320.467,"endTime":325.257,"body":"When I started, like, I had characters first"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":320.467,"endTime":325.257,"body":"in that way."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":325.401,"endTime":330.953,"body":"Then I started writing, and they started to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":325.401,"endTime":330.953,"body":"have flaws, and they started to come to life,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":331.009,"endTime":333.145,"body":"and we started to have a plot come together."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":333.225,"endTime":336.881,"body":"And, like, my story is also inspired by a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":336.913,"endTime":338.105,"body":"Japanese story."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":338.225,"endTime":340.257,"body":"And so, like, I had a direction that that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":340.281,"endTime":343.433,"body":"story went and was like, I'm not going to go"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":340.281,"endTime":343.433,"body":"exactly in that direction."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":343.489,"endTime":347.017,"body":"I'm going to go in this other direction and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":343.489,"endTime":347.017,"body":"make it different."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":347.121,"endTime":348.417,"body":"And, like, take."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":348.481,"endTime":350.521,"body":"Put my own spin on things and my own"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":350.553,"endTime":353.045,"body":"interpretation of how these characters would"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":350.553,"endTime":353.045,"body":"act."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":353.535,"endTime":354.635,"body":"I knew them."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":355.055,"endTime":357.207,"body":"Then I got to the end and was like, I kind of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":357.231,"endTime":358.555,"body":"wrote story point."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":359.335,"endTime":361.959,"body":"Maybe it's not exactly what I wanted it to be."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":362.127,"endTime":366.439,"body":"So then I went back to the beginning and,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":362.127,"endTime":366.439,"body":"like, put words to the story point and, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":366.487,"endTime":370.287,"body":"revised what that story point would actually"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":366.487,"endTime":370.287,"body":"be."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":370.431,"endTime":373.671,"body":"And I chose this is the story point."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":373.863,"endTime":377.575,"body":"And then I made changes to the plot into the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":377.615,"endTime":380.091,"body":"characters to meet that story point."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":380.243,"endTime":385.315,"body":"So, like, even though I. It is really"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":385.395,"endTime":389.555,"body":"challenging to, like, try and take a lot of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":385.395,"endTime":389.555,"body":"disparate ideas of, like, these different"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":389.595,"endTime":392.979,"body":"characters and their different arcs and try to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":389.595,"endTime":392.979,"body":"come up with, like, how they're all connected,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":393.107,"endTime":397.875,"body":"because sometimes they're just not connected"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":393.107,"endTime":397.875,"body":"and you have to connect them."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":397.995,"endTime":400.579,"body":"But I didn't do that until revisions."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":400.747,"endTime":403.355,"body":"Like, I didn't make those connections in a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":403.395,"endTime":409.761,"body":"cohesive way until I was, like, able to look"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":403.395,"endTime":409.761,"body":"at the picture, the story as a whole."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":409.873,"endTime":415.609,"body":"Now, for my next book, for Only Fools, I had a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":409.873,"endTime":415.609,"body":"story point, and I was like, I have already"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":415.657,"endTime":416.905,"body":"been with these characters."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":417.065,"endTime":418.849,"body":"I know what this next story point is going to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":418.857,"endTime":419.025,"body":"be."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":419.065,"endTime":420.177,"body":"I'm going to start it out."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":420.281,"endTime":423.881,"body":"But I still was like, it's going to get"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":420.281,"endTime":423.881,"body":"refined."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":423.993,"endTime":426.809,"body":"It's going to get honed, because the story"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":423.993,"endTime":426.809,"body":"point that I'm."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":426.977,"endTime":433.911,"body":"That I'm thinking this story is about never"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":426.977,"endTime":433.911,"body":"ends up being that way, because writing is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":433.943,"endTime":434.595,"body":"chaos."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":434.975,"endTime":436.671,"body":"And then I did the same thing where I was"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":436.703,"endTime":437.159,"body":"like."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":437.287,"endTime":440.871,"body":"I kind of, like, came up with it in the middle"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":440.903,"endTime":447.175,"body":"of writing that time when I was realizing the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":440.903,"endTime":447.175,"body":"different themes that were showing up and the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":447.215,"endTime":450.155,"body":"different, like, challenges my characters are"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":447.215,"endTime":450.155,"body":"encountering."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":450.775,"endTime":452.415,"body":"Then I had, like, okay, that's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":452.495,"endTime":453.759,"body":"I. This feels pretty right."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":453.807,"endTime":460.045,"body":"Let me go back and see how I can attach more"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":453.807,"endTime":460.045,"body":"things, how I can, like, bring more of this,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":460.385,"endTime":465.137,"body":"the different pieces of my story to connect"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":460.385,"endTime":465.137,"body":"with the story point."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":465.281,"endTime":470.713,"body":"Yeah. And I just want to say, like,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":465.281,"endTime":470.713,"body":"just because your characters weren't connected"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":470.769,"endTime":473.153,"body":"by the end of your first draft didn't mean you"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":470.769,"endTime":473.153,"body":"failed."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":473.249,"endTime":474.041,"body":"No, not at all."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":474.073,"endTime":479.713,"body":"Right. Like. Like, I think that there's"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":474.073,"endTime":479.713,"body":"this right baked into this question is a very,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":479.809,"endTime":484.441,"body":"very common and very understandable fear that"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":479.809,"endTime":484.441,"body":"you're going to reach the end of a draft and"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":484.473,"endTime":489.181,"body":"none of it is going to work, and you're going"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":484.473,"endTime":489.181,"body":"to have, quote, unquote, I hate that I'm"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":489.213,"endTime":492.181,"body":"rolling my eyes on camera, right?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":489.213,"endTime":492.181,"body":"Wasted time."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":492.333,"endTime":493.989,"body":"But, like, that's not true."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":494.157,"endTime":498.605,"body":"And as a plotter, I like to know, like, I"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":498.645,"endTime":499.965,"body":"start with thinking these things through."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":500.005,"endTime":501.061,"body":"That's kind of how my brain works."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":501.093,"endTime":503.765,"body":"I start at the top and with the story point,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":501.093,"endTime":503.765,"body":"and then I kind of filter through."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":503.805,"endTime":508.853,"body":"But that can also be a detriment, right?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":503.805,"endTime":508.853,"body":"Because even as a plotter, I don't really"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":508.909,"endTime":511.997,"body":"figure out the nuance of what I'm trying to do"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":508.909,"endTime":511.997,"body":"until the first draft is done."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":512.061,"endTime":518.796,"body":"And so my story points usually start out very"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":512.061,"endTime":518.796,"body":"general, and then they get more specific and"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":518.82,"endTime":521.004,"body":"more nuanced with every draft that I do."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":521.044,"endTime":521.612,"body":"Like, they."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":521.708,"endTime":524.624,"body":"They get more detailed, if that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":526.164,"endTime":528.3,"body":"And, like, that's just like, the process of"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":528.332,"endTime":532.956,"body":"writing, I think, is the further you get in"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":528.332,"endTime":532.956,"body":"the story, the clearer it is what you're"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":532.98,"endTime":533.788,"body":"trying to say."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":533.916,"endTime":537.444,"body":"And I think, to come back to the second part"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":537.484,"endTime":545.235,"body":"of this, of this question that Kayla has sent"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":537.484,"endTime":545.235,"body":"us, is this question of, like, when is it?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":545.275,"endTime":549.755,"body":"When do I have enough things figured out?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":545.275,"endTime":549.755,"body":"Especially as I'm learning craft."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":549.795,"endTime":555.195,"body":"And I. I did an Instagram reel recently."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":555.315,"endTime":556.075,"body":"I think it was a real."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":556.115,"endTime":563.867,"body":"Not alive, either way, an Instagram video"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":556.115,"endTime":563.867,"body":"talking about how it is so hard."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":564.051,"endTime":568.339,"body":"Like, there's nothing harder and more like"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":564.051,"endTime":568.339,"body":"confusing and difficult than learning craft"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":568.387,"endTime":569.819,"body":"while you're working on your first draft."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":569.867,"endTime":570.267,"body":"But it's."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":570.331,"endTime":572.077,"body":"It's unavoidable."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":572.221,"endTime":573.277,"body":"That's how it works."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":573.421,"endTime":578.621,"body":"And so for all the new writers out there, it"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":573.421,"endTime":578.621,"body":"is so normal to really struggle when you first"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":578.693,"endTime":582.381,"body":"start, because you're trying to do two very"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":578.693,"endTime":582.381,"body":"difficult things, right?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":582.413,"endTime":583.733,"body":"You're trying to learn the."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":583.829,"endTime":584.981,"body":"Learn writing craft."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":585.093,"endTime":586.045,"body":"Three difficult things."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":586.085,"endTime":587.621,"body":"You're trying to learn writing craft, which is"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":587.653,"endTime":591.397,"body":"in and of itself very difficult because you"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":587.653,"endTime":591.397,"body":"have to figure out which writing craft clicks"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":591.421,"endTime":592.141,"body":"with your brain."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":592.253,"endTime":592.653,"body":"What's."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":592.709,"endTime":593.485,"body":"What is gonna."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":593.565,"endTime":595.461,"body":"You know, what is gonna work for you?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":595.573,"endTime":597.933,"body":"That's the second part, right?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":595.573,"endTime":597.933,"body":"What is your process?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":597.989,"endTime":598.357,"body":"You don't know."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":598.381,"endTime":599.845,"body":"You don't know what your process is yet."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":599.925,"endTime":603.541,"body":"And so figuring out when to use these tools,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":599.925,"endTime":603.541,"body":"you don't know."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":603.613,"endTime":606.477,"body":"So you're starting to use them at the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":603.613,"endTime":606.477,"body":"beginning, but maybe, like Rachel, you're"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":606.501,"endTime":610.485,"body":"going to figure out, you know, through this"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":606.501,"endTime":610.485,"body":"process by the end of your first book that you"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":610.525,"endTime":612.717,"body":"like using these tools later in revisions,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":610.525,"endTime":612.717,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":612.741,"endTime":614.781,"body":"You're still figuring that piece out."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":614.933,"endTime":616.405,"body":"And then you're also trying to figure out your"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":616.445,"endTime":617.053,"body":"story."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":617.229,"endTime":620.301,"body":"And, you know, as you write, the more books"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":620.333,"endTime":624.125,"body":"that you write and the more that you develop"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":620.333,"endTime":624.125,"body":"your craft and your process."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":624.205,"endTime":624.769,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":624.917,"endTime":627.185,"body":"The easier it will be to figure out when the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":627.225,"endTime":628.689,"body":"confusion is about the story."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":628.777,"endTime":629.345,"body":"And, like, you're."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":629.385,"endTime":629.849,"body":"You're not."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":629.897,"endTime":631.425,"body":"Could you just don't know the story yet"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":631.465,"endTime":634.049,"body":"versus, like, it's a tool problem or a process"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":631.465,"endTime":634.049,"body":"problem."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":634.097,"endTime":634.281,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":634.313,"endTime":634.849,"body":"Like, there's."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":634.937,"endTime":637.561,"body":"It could be any of those things if you get"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":634.937,"endTime":637.561,"body":"stuck."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":637.753,"endTime":639.633,"body":"And so it's really, like, it's."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":639.689,"endTime":641.993,"body":"It's just normal to have, like, for it to be"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":642.009,"endTime":643.249,"body":"hard and unclear."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":643.417,"endTime":646.281,"body":"But that question of, do you have enough?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":646.353,"endTime":646.937,"body":"Like, you."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":647.041,"endTime":648.545,"body":"There's always enough to move forward."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":648.625,"endTime":650.265,"body":"There's always enough to draft."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":650.385,"endTime":652.201,"body":"Like, and I think we talked about this in our"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":652.233,"endTime":653.845,"body":"last episode, that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":654.365,"endTime":654.725,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":654.765,"endTime":657.117,"body":"There's no. You can't do it wrong."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":657.221,"endTime":659.349,"body":"You're just gonna make a choice, and then if"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":659.357,"endTime":663.517,"body":"you decide to change it later because you have"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":659.357,"endTime":663.517,"body":"a better understanding of the story or you"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":663.541,"endTime":665.133,"body":"have a better understanding of tools."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":665.229,"endTime":665.485,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":665.525,"endTime":665.893,"body":"It does."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":665.949,"endTime":667.653,"body":"Like, either way, if you decide to change it"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":667.669,"endTime":669.585,"body":"later, that doesn't mean you failed now."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":669.885,"endTime":671.701,"body":"And so what I would tell this person to do is,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":671.733,"endTime":677.669,"body":"like, just start writing, start implementing"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":671.733,"endTime":677.669,"body":"the craft, start playing around, and take that"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":677.717,"endTime":681.493,"body":"pressure off your shoulders for it to be right"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":677.717,"endTime":681.493,"body":"before you move forward."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":681.589,"endTime":683.981,"body":"You have enough?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":681.589,"endTime":683.981,"body":"Yeah, you have enough."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":684.093,"endTime":685.077,"body":"You have enough."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":685.261,"endTime":688.261,"body":"Again, I think in most of the recent episodes"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":688.293,"endTime":695.941,"body":"that we've recorded, we have said, like, the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":688.293,"endTime":695.941,"body":"key to applying this stuff is, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":696.093,"endTime":700.837,"body":"understand the theory of why you have a story"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":696.093,"endTime":700.837,"body":"point and then figure out when is the best"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":700.901,"endTime":707.949,"body":"point in your process to, like, adopt that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":700.901,"endTime":707.949,"body":"and, like, apply that into your process."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":708.037,"endTime":708.605,"body":"I mean, the."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":708.685,"endTime":711.925,"body":"The idea of the story point is, like, it"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":711.965,"endTime":715.743,"body":"exists to give your story direction and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":711.965,"endTime":715.743,"body":"cohesion."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":715.839,"endTime":721.479,"body":"And so it makes sense why many people suggest"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":715.839,"endTime":721.479,"body":"start with the story point."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":721.527,"endTime":725.847,"body":"So you start with the direction and the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":721.527,"endTime":725.847,"body":"cohesion, and if that works with you, great."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":725.951,"endTime":731.063,"body":"If it doesn't, just know, like, we have a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":725.951,"endTime":731.063,"body":"story point for a reason, and it's because it"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":731.199,"endTime":732.975,"body":"creates cohesive storytelling."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":733.095,"endTime":734.327,"body":"So then I can."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":734.351,"endTime":735.903,"body":"You can go back and be later."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":735.999,"endTime":737.919,"body":"Be like, okay, I'm at a point now where at"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":737.927,"endTime":739.105,"body":"least I can see what I have."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":739.215,"endTime":740.413,"body":"How can I make it cohesive?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":740.469,"endTime":741.157,"body":"What are the."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":741.261,"endTime":742.701,"body":"What are the common denominators here?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":742.733,"endTime":745.861,"body":"And, like, that's where you get into the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":742.733,"endTime":745.861,"body":"application."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":746.053,"endTime":747.957,"body":"But you've already known."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":748.141,"endTime":751.781,"body":"You know, you, like, have this thought that we"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":751.813,"endTime":753.405,"body":"want things to be connected."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":753.525,"endTime":754.277,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":754.461,"endTime":759.277,"body":"Yeah. However you connect them, at"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":754.461,"endTime":759.277,"body":"what point is really, like, the process that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":759.301,"endTime":760.125,"body":"works for You."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":760.245,"endTime":765.229,"body":"Yeah. And to go back to this idea of,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":760.245,"endTime":765.229,"body":"like, the story point is the guiding light of,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":765.277,"endTime":768.011,"body":"like, what your story is going to be about,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":765.277,"endTime":768.011,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":768.043,"endTime":769.171,"body":"And you might not know."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":769.283,"endTime":771.227,"body":"You might not have no answer yet."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":771.331,"endTime":776.139,"body":"And so, like, I was listening to Saba Tahir"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":771.331,"endTime":776.139,"body":"talk about her process recently on a podcast,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":776.267,"endTime":780.379,"body":"and she talked about how she starts with a"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":776.267,"endTime":780.379,"body":"question that she doesn't have the answer to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":780.427,"endTime":780.707,"body":"yet."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":780.771,"endTime":780.947,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":780.971,"endTime":783.027,"body":"The story point is the answer to the question."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":783.131,"endTime":784.099,"body":"But if the question."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":784.187,"endTime":784.435,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":784.475,"endTime":792.739,"body":"If the question is how do you, how do you love"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":792.867,"endTime":796.119,"body":"when you are afraid of loss?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":792.867,"endTime":796.119,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":796.247,"endTime":799.887,"body":"Like, you might not know the answer to that,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":796.247,"endTime":799.887,"body":"but you, you have some themes in there."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":799.911,"endTime":804.447,"body":"And this goes back to that other episode with"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":799.911,"endTime":804.447,"body":"Amadezi where we talk about how story point"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":804.471,"endTime":805.791,"body":"and theme intertwine."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":805.983,"endTime":807.079,"body":"You could start with themes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":807.127,"endTime":810.551,"body":"You could, you could start with, okay, the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":807.127,"endTime":810.551,"body":"themes of my story are going to be about love"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":810.583,"endTime":811.295,"body":"and loss."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":811.455,"endTime":814.151,"body":"That gives you so much to work with in terms"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":814.183,"endTime":817.275,"body":"of making your story cohesive as you're"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":814.183,"endTime":817.275,"body":"exploring it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":818.135,"endTime":822.143,"body":"And then eventually you will get to the answer"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":818.135,"endTime":822.143,"body":"at the end of the story as to, like, what it"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":822.159,"endTime":824.345,"body":"is that you want takeaway of the story to be."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":824.425,"endTime":825.977,"body":"If you don't know at the beginning, like,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":826.001,"endTime":827.585,"body":"that's, that's fine."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":827.665,"endTime":828.777,"body":"You'll figure it out."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":828.921,"endTime":830.921,"body":"Normal. Have some trust."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":830.993,"endTime":832.377,"body":"You're going to figure it out."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":832.521,"endTime":833.049,"body":"You will."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":833.097,"endTime":834.245,"body":"Pinky promise."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":835.305,"endTime":836.085,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":836.665,"endTime":837.321,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":837.433,"endTime":841.641,"body":"If you want to build a successful, fulfilling"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":837.433,"endTime":841.641,"body":"and sustainable writing life that works for"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":841.673,"endTime":843.809,"body":"you, you've got to get on our email list."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":843.937,"endTime":846.793,"body":"Sign up now to get our free email"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":843.937,"endTime":846.793,"body":"course, the Magic of Character Arcs."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":846.849,"endTime":850.913,"body":"After seven days of email magic, you'll have"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":846.849,"endTime":850.913,"body":"the power to keep your readers flipping pages"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":850.969,"endTime":851.857,"body":"all through the night."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":852.001,"endTime":853.017,"body":"Link in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":853.081,"endTime":854.121,"body":"We'll see you there."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":854.273,"endTime":855.285,"body":"By H."}]}