{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":13.76,"endTime":14.336,"body":"Hey, writers."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":14.344,"endTime":16.232,"body":"Welcome back to Story Magic, the podcast that"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":16.256,"endTime":18.152,"body":"will help you write a book you're damn proud"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":16.256,"endTime":18.152,"body":"of."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":18.256,"endTime":19.032,"body":"I'm Rachel."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":19.096,"endTime":20.248,"body":"And I'm Emily."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":20.424,"endTime":26.77,"body":"And today we are talking about"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":20.424,"endTime":26.77,"body":"internal dialogue, internal narration, your"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":26.81,"endTime":29.698,"body":"character's thoughts going on inside of their"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":26.81,"endTime":29.698,"body":"heads."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":29.874,"endTime":33.218,"body":"We. We call it internal processing"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":29.874,"endTime":33.218,"body":"because everybody has to have a different word"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":33.234,"endTime":33.81,"body":"for it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":33.93,"endTime":36.978,"body":"Every interiority is a common word."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":37.074,"endTime":39.474,"body":"The things that go on inside, that's."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":39.522,"endTime":41.842,"body":"Inside that are not within quotes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":41.986,"endTime":47.362,"body":"Yes. So I'm bringing this to you today"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":41.986,"endTime":47.362,"body":"because I had a really good conversation with"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":47.386,"endTime":53.01,"body":"one of my one on one clients about this, and I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":47.386,"endTime":53.01,"body":"thought it was a good question that he had"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":53.05,"endTime":53.63,"body":"asked."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":54.08,"endTime":61.352,"body":"So what we were talking about, basically we've"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":54.08,"endTime":61.352,"body":"been drafting pages in his book and working on"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":61.536,"endTime":68.968,"body":"including internal processing, which is that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":61.536,"endTime":68.968,"body":"internal dialogue on the page so that you can"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":69.024,"endTime":73.5,"body":"see the character's thoughts, reactions,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":69.024,"endTime":73.5,"body":"feelings,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":73.84,"endTime":77.48,"body":"like in action at the time that things are"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":73.84,"endTime":77.48,"body":"going on."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":77.52,"endTime":83.822,"body":"So that's one of the skills that we practice"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":77.52,"endTime":83.822,"body":"in our one on one coaching program, and we"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":83.846,"endTime":86.11,"body":"work on that together as we review pages."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":86.19,"endTime":89.93,"body":"Anyway, so we were doing that and I had asked"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":86.19,"endTime":89.93,"body":"him,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":90.47,"endTime":91.758,"body":"like, let's put more in there."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":91.814,"endTime":92.67,"body":"We need a little bit more."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":92.71,"endTime":96.33,"body":"We need to see what's going on inside this"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":92.71,"endTime":96.33,"body":"character's head so that we understand,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":96.71,"endTime":100.686,"body":"you know, why they're doing things, why"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":96.71,"endTime":100.686,"body":"they're pursuing their goals, why it matters"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":100.718,"endTime":103.278,"body":"to them, what they're thinking, what they're"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":100.718,"endTime":103.278,"body":"feeling."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":103.454,"endTime":111.902,"body":"And we have a whole episode on the show, don't"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":103.454,"endTime":111.902,"body":"tell version of this, which is episode 51."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":112.006,"endTime":117.61,"body":"So if you're like, I have no idea what you're"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":112.006,"endTime":117.61,"body":"talking about, listen to that episode first."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":117.91,"endTime":121.29,"body":"It's called our Character Thoughts Show Don't"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":117.91,"endTime":121.29,"body":"Tell."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":121.67,"endTime":127.87,"body":"And it, that episode really dives into, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":121.67,"endTime":127.87,"body":"the purpose of character thoughts and how you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":127.91,"endTime":128.81,"body":"can use them."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":129.11,"endTime":131.85,"body":"This question my client asked builds off that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":132.21,"endTime":136.35,"body":"because that's the skill we were practicing is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":132.21,"endTime":136.35,"body":"using thoughts to show notel."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":136.69,"endTime":138.15,"body":"So he had asked,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":138.69,"endTime":140.83,"body":"to sum it up pretty quickly,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":141.17,"endTime":144.986,"body":"who are, who is this character talking to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":141.17,"endTime":144.986,"body":"inside their head?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":145.138,"endTime":146.47,"body":"Who are they talking to?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":146.85,"endTime":149.67,"body":"How do you write this?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":146.85,"endTime":149.67,"body":"As you know, are they."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":150.13,"endTime":155.03,"body":"Do they have a narrator inside their head that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":150.13,"endTime":155.03,"body":"they're thinking to, talking to?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":156.93,"endTime":162.114,"body":"And we had a good conversation come out of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":156.93,"endTime":162.114,"body":"that because they're talking to themselves."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":162.242,"endTime":166.738,"body":"They're not really talking to like a narrator"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":162.242,"endTime":166.738,"body":"unless your character, I think, is like"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":166.794,"endTime":171.522,"body":"affecting something like making a joke or"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":166.794,"endTime":171.522,"body":"they're, you know, they're doing that for a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":171.546,"endTime":171.922,"body":"reason."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":172.026,"endTime":177.218,"body":"But character thoughts are just the characters"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":172.026,"endTime":177.218,"body":"talking to themselves."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":177.394,"endTime":179.09,"body":"Talking to themselves."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":179.25,"endTime":183.49,"body":"I feel like this gets tricky in first"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":179.25,"endTime":183.49,"body":"person Especially because it feels like first"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":183.53,"endTime":188.254,"body":"person feels like you should be writing"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":183.53,"endTime":188.254,"body":"somebody telling their story."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":188.342,"endTime":191.13,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":188.342,"endTime":191.13,"body":"Especially if it's like first person past."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":192.23,"endTime":194.718,"body":"And sometimes that's what you want to do,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":192.23,"endTime":194.718,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":194.774,"endTime":199.422,"body":"Sometimes that is like the approach that"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":194.774,"endTime":199.422,"body":"people take, usually at the beginnings and"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":199.446,"endTime":200.69,"body":"ends of scenes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":201.75,"endTime":204.606,"body":"If you're taking that, it'll be like taking"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":201.75,"endTime":204.606,"body":"that approach."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":204.678,"endTime":207.006,"body":"It'll be in somebody's telling their history"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":204.678,"endTime":207.006,"body":"or something."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":207.078,"endTime":211.21,"body":"I'm reading the Adventures of Amina Al Sarafi"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":207.078,"endTime":211.21,"body":"right now,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":211.59,"endTime":212.958,"body":"and it takes that approach."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":213.014,"endTime":215.582,"body":"Like, the idea, the framework of the book is"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":215.606,"endTime":217.454,"body":"that Aminah is telling her life story."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":217.542,"endTime":219.402,"body":"And at the beginnings and ends of some of the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":219.426,"endTime":222.234,"body":"chapters, she will be talking to the reader."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":222.362,"endTime":225.31,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":222.362,"endTime":225.31,"body":"But then when we slip into the scene,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":226.61,"endTime":235.29,"body":"the author slips the reader into Amina's"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":226.61,"endTime":235.29,"body":"character and into Amina's body, her eyes, her"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":235.33,"endTime":235.674,"body":"mind."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":235.762,"endTime":237.978,"body":"And so it's no longer Amina telling the reader"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":237.994,"endTime":238.33,"body":"the story."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":238.37,"endTime":241.85,"body":"It's just Amina narrating to herself kind of"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":241.89,"endTime":244.234,"body":"what she's seeing, if that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":244.362,"endTime":249.206,"body":"Yeah, no, I think that's a great"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":244.362,"endTime":249.206,"body":"point, because I also see that, and it feels"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":249.238,"endTime":256.15,"body":"like a very conscious author choice to do it"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":249.238,"endTime":256.15,"body":"that way versus the character is constant."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":256.23,"endTime":260.774,"body":"I mean, I just feel like that would get old if"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":256.23,"endTime":260.774,"body":"that was the constant take of a character to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":260.782,"endTime":261.814,"body":"talk to somebody."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":261.942,"endTime":264.326,"body":"But I could see that in the right genre, maybe"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":264.358,"endTime":267.414,"body":"like a comedy and this is fiction."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":267.462,"endTime":270.118,"body":"I mean, if this is memoir, you might be"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":267.462,"endTime":270.118,"body":"dealing with something different."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":270.174,"endTime":271.968,"body":"But we're not talking about that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":272.134,"endTime":276.156,"body":"Um, but I just read a romance where I can't"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":276.188,"endTime":277.788,"body":"remember exactly what happened, but the."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":277.844,"endTime":283.708,"body":"The female lead was, like, getting in deeper"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":277.844,"endTime":283.708,"body":"with the male lead, falling in love."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":283.764,"endTime":286.716,"body":"And then at the very last sentence of a scene"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":283.764,"endTime":286.716,"body":"was like."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":286.868,"endTime":290.6,"body":"And I didn't know how bad of a decision that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":286.868,"endTime":290.6,"body":"would be,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":291.06,"endTime":295.356,"body":"and like implying later we're gonna find out"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":291.06,"endTime":295.356,"body":"that was a bad decision."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":295.428,"endTime":296.028,"body":"But, like, it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":296.084,"endTime":296.876,"body":"It was not."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":296.948,"endTime":298.536,"body":"That was not in."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":298.608,"endTime":299.3,"body":"That was."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":300.48,"endTime":303.528,"body":"That was outside a regular character thought."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":303.584,"endTime":305.7,"body":"You know, because if you were in action,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":306.08,"endTime":310.792,"body":"if you were inside a character's head as"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":306.08,"endTime":310.792,"body":"things were unfolding, a character would not"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":310.816,"endTime":311.24,"body":"think that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":311.28,"endTime":312.9,"body":"A person would not think that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":313.2,"endTime":314.952,"body":"That's like, I am set outside."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":315.056,"endTime":315.48,"body":"I am."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":315.52,"endTime":319.592,"body":"I am a character looking outside, looking in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":315.52,"endTime":319.592,"body":"and criticizing my own choices."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":319.656,"endTime":323.26,"body":"Because I know now at a later version, that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":319.656,"endTime":323.26,"body":"was not a good choice."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":324.17,"endTime":325.39,"body":"And they're different."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":326.01,"endTime":328.322,"body":"But when I was talking."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":328.466,"endTime":329.79,"body":"Oh, go ahead, go ahead."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":330.25,"endTime":332.59,"body":"When I was talking to my client about this,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":333.29,"endTime":341.282,"body":"we started talking about people who are"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":333.29,"endTime":341.282,"body":"natural external processors versus people who"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":341.306,"endTime":343.474,"body":"are natural, like internal processors."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":343.522,"endTime":344.946,"body":"And outside of characters."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":344.978,"endTime":347.698,"body":"I'm talking now about authors where I do."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":347.754,"endTime":350.852,"body":"There are some people like myself, who."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":351.036,"endTime":358.24,"body":"My regular internal narrative as a human being"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":351.036,"endTime":358.24,"body":"is always dialed up to 10, right?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":358.94,"endTime":359.604,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":359.732,"endTime":361.652,"body":"I am talking to myself."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":361.716,"endTime":364.96,"body":"I'm thinking my things all day long."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":365.34,"endTime":366.964,"body":"With some sass, I'm sure."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":367.052,"endTime":368.436,"body":"With some sass."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":368.628,"endTime":371.7,"body":"But, like, that stream of consciousness is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":371.82,"endTime":372.8,"body":"ever present,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":373.26,"endTime":376.116,"body":"and I process things through that stream of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":373.26,"endTime":376.116,"body":"consciousness."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":376.148,"endTime":379.71,"body":"I'm not saying that some people don't have"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":376.148,"endTime":379.71,"body":"conscious thoughts."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":380.52,"endTime":384.272,"body":"Like, I process things very easily through"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":380.52,"endTime":384.272,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":384.376,"endTime":387.18,"body":"That stream of consciousness inside my own"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":384.376,"endTime":387.18,"body":"head."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":387.56,"endTime":388.688,"body":"But I think there are."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":388.744,"endTime":391.552,"body":"There are some people out there, and this is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":391.576,"endTime":392.448,"body":"not me who."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":392.504,"endTime":395.664,"body":"Who like, process very well through external"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":395.712,"endTime":396.56,"body":"conversation."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":396.72,"endTime":399.568,"body":"So maybe it is a little different to be trying"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":399.624,"endTime":401.74,"body":"to write such a."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":402.76,"endTime":410.654,"body":"Like a fluid character narrative on the inside"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":402.76,"endTime":410.654,"body":"when all you want to do as a person is talk,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":410.742,"endTime":413.07,"body":"you know, like process out loud, you know."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":413.11,"endTime":413.886,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":414.078,"endTime":414.718,"body":"And I think."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":414.774,"endTime":416.494,"body":"I think for him there was maybe some struggle"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":416.542,"endTime":418.254,"body":"between that of like."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":418.422,"endTime":421.118,"body":"Well, I'm used to processing things out loud,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":421.214,"endTime":422.462,"body":"not inside my head."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":422.566,"endTime":423.214,"body":"So it's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":423.342,"endTime":426.51,"body":"It doesn't feel right to have this character"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":423.342,"endTime":426.51,"body":"be thinking all these things."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":426.55,"endTime":430.942,"body":"They should be saying them out loud to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":426.55,"endTime":430.942,"body":"somebody instead."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":431.086,"endTime":431.89,"body":"Instead."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":432.4,"endTime":435.416,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. That's a really interesting"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":432.4,"endTime":435.416,"body":"perspective."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":435.448,"endTime":437.08,"body":"I hadn't thought about it that way."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":437.12,"endTime":440.088,"body":"I feel like it can take some getting used to,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":440.144,"endTime":445.56,"body":"especially if you're a newer writer and"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":440.144,"endTime":445.56,"body":"especially, I think, in third person, to start"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":445.6,"endTime":446.504,"body":"to slip into."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":446.592,"endTime":447.416,"body":"Like, what does."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":447.488,"endTime":449.432,"body":"This is where a character voice lives is in,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":449.456,"endTime":451.144,"body":"like, how they voice their thoughts."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":451.272,"endTime":453.768,"body":"That's really what a character voice comes"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":453.824,"endTime":460.248,"body":"down to, is the way in which they express what"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":453.824,"endTime":460.248,"body":"they're thinking to themselves on the page."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":460.424,"endTime":462.964,"body":"And you do that in first and third person."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":463.152,"endTime":466.68,"body":"Um, and it can be really easy to slip into."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":467.78,"endTime":473.292,"body":"And I'm talking like, line level here, like,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":467.78,"endTime":473.292,"body":"small ways of breaking that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":473.476,"endTime":474.076,"body":"I just."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":474.148,"endTime":474.716,"body":"We're reading."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":474.748,"endTime":479.32,"body":"So for In Tenacious Writing, our Community for"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":474.748,"endTime":479.32,"body":"writers, our writing program."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":479.7,"endTime":482.52,"body":"We're doing a book club tomorrow actually on."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":483.3,"endTime":484.78,"body":"I think it's how to Show Don't Tell."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":484.82,"endTime":486.028,"body":"It's by Janice Hardy."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":486.124,"endTime":489.548,"body":"Understanding I'm just show Don't Tell"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":486.124,"endTime":489.548,"body":"and really getting it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":489.604,"endTime":491.628,"body":"I just have the fight right in front of my"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":489.604,"endTime":491.628,"body":"face."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":491.684,"endTime":492.332,"body":"It's incredible."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":492.396,"endTime":493.452,"body":"It's so, so good."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":493.556,"endTime":498.04,"body":"And she talks a lot about this, the line"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":493.556,"endTime":498.04,"body":"level, like, how you do this and like, what"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":498.08,"endTime":499.46,"body":"words to look for."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":499.92,"endTime":505.464,"body":"Because sometimes, like, even something as"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":499.92,"endTime":505.464,"body":"simple as saying, like, I thought she seemed"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":505.512,"endTime":506.328,"body":"ridiculous."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":506.424,"endTime":507.176,"body":"Let's just say."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":507.248,"endTime":507.672,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":507.776,"endTime":511.032,"body":"Like that is the character telling the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":507.776,"endTime":511.032,"body":"reader that they think someone is."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":511.136,"endTime":513.544,"body":"Let's maybe not seemed, but is being"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":511.136,"endTime":513.544,"body":"ridiculous."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":513.592,"endTime":513.896,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":513.968,"endTime":516.408,"body":"I Thought she was being ridiculous versus"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":516.504,"endTime":518.024,"body":"she's being ridiculous."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":518.152,"endTime":518.728,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":518.864,"endTime":520.024,"body":"I thought she's being ridiculous."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":520.072,"endTime":524.256,"body":"Is the character saying that to somebody else"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":520.072,"endTime":524.256,"body":"versus just showing us the thought of she's"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":524.288,"endTime":525.776,"body":"being ridiculous right now."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":525.848,"endTime":526.08,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":526.12,"endTime":526.944,"body":"That gives us voice."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":526.992,"endTime":530.512,"body":"It gives us like, we're in that character's"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":526.992,"endTime":530.512,"body":"head as they're thinking that, you know, this"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":530.536,"endTime":533.104,"body":"other character in the scene is being absurd."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":533.152,"endTime":536.032,"body":"And so like little things like that at the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":536.056,"endTime":537.44,"body":"line level can really clean this up."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":537.48,"endTime":538.912,"body":"And I emphasize at the line level."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":538.936,"endTime":540.336,"body":"Cause like, this isn't something that we're"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":540.368,"endTime":542.352,"body":"going to be trying to do in our first drafts"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":540.368,"endTime":542.352,"body":"and stuff."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":542.376,"endTime":546.256,"body":"I'm actually, right now I'm writing backstory"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":542.376,"endTime":546.256,"body":"scenes for my new project."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":546.408,"endTime":547.98,"body":"And this morning I was,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":548.47,"endTime":553.998,"body":"I was working on a scene and I was like, I"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":548.47,"endTime":553.998,"body":"don't really feel like getting into the head"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":554.054,"endTime":555.582,"body":"of a 12 year old right now."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":555.686,"endTime":556.094,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":556.142,"endTime":559.454,"body":"And so I just like told like I started"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":556.142,"endTime":559.454,"body":"telling the scene to myself."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":559.502,"endTime":562.286,"body":"I was like, okay, what if I'm the character"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":559.502,"endTime":562.286,"body":"and the character's just telling me?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":562.358,"endTime":563.886,"body":"And this is backstory, so it doesn't matter."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":563.958,"endTime":565.022,"body":"I'm the only one reading it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":565.046,"endTime":565.47,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":565.59,"endTime":567.902,"body":"Like, that can be a really useful tool if you"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":565.59,"endTime":567.902,"body":"like."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":567.926,"endTime":571.486,"body":"I just needed to tell myself a bunch of stuff"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":567.926,"endTime":571.486,"body":"about the world and like how this person's"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":571.518,"endTime":574.206,"body":"life and like community is like set up and"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":571.518,"endTime":574.206,"body":"works."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":574.238,"endTime":578.902,"body":"And I was like, I don't have the energy to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":574.238,"endTime":578.902,"body":"like put myself in their 12 year old shoes to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":578.926,"endTime":579.558,"body":"explain that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":579.614,"endTime":581.062,"body":"So I'm just gonna have them explain it to me"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":581.086,"endTime":582.69,"body":"as an adult and just tell it to me."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":583.15,"endTime":586.486,"body":"And so like, sometimes that can be fine to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":583.15,"endTime":586.486,"body":"just like step outside and have your character"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":586.518,"endTime":589.43,"body":"talk to you in those different ways for first"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":586.518,"endTime":589.43,"body":"draft or something."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":589.55,"endTime":593.766,"body":"But eventually what readers I think are often"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":589.55,"endTime":593.766,"body":"looking for is slipping into somebody else's"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":593.798,"endTime":594.37,"body":"experience."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":594.91,"endTime":598.65,"body":"And in order to do that, we have to be in"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":594.91,"endTime":598.65,"body":"their thoughts."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":599.07,"endTime":603.51,"body":"There's a disconnect if they're telling us the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":599.07,"endTime":603.51,"body":"story versus if we're actually inside their"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":603.55,"endTime":605.738,"body":"head living the story in their brain."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":605.894,"endTime":606.93,"body":"That makes sense."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":607.09,"endTime":615.73,"body":"Yeah. And I'm reminded like just now"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":607.09,"endTime":615.73,"body":"about like a book like Jane Eyre where there"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":615.77,"endTime":621.922,"body":"are, there are portions of that book that take"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":615.77,"endTime":621.922,"body":"place when she is an adult talking about her"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":621.946,"endTime":622.722,"body":"childhood."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":622.866,"endTime":631.122,"body":"And that is like, I am telling you this and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":622.866,"endTime":631.122,"body":"then correct me if I'm wrong, there are"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":631.146,"endTime":633.516,"body":"portions of that book where you're living in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":631.146,"endTime":633.516,"body":"it with her."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":633.588,"endTime":636.044,"body":"Because now it's been so long since I"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":633.588,"endTime":636.044,"body":"read it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":636.132,"endTime":638.14,"body":"Yeah, that sounds right."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":638.26,"endTime":640.924,"body":"It sounds right because there's the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":638.26,"endTime":640.924,"body":"famous line reader."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":640.972,"endTime":642.04,"body":"I married him."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":642.34,"endTime":642.748,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":642.804,"endTime":643.852,"body":"Like reader."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":643.916,"endTime":645.196,"body":"That's who you're talking to."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":645.348,"endTime":645.756,"body":"Reader."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":645.788,"endTime":646.62,"body":"I married him."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":646.74,"endTime":649.74,"body":"But that's not usual, I would say."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":649.78,"endTime":650.364,"body":"Or that's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":650.412,"endTime":651.612,"body":"I'll take that back."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":651.716,"endTime":655.72,"body":"That would be a choice because of how that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":651.716,"endTime":655.72,"body":"story is being told."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":656.02,"endTime":663.548,"body":"Where you have a character standing in a point"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":656.02,"endTime":663.548,"body":"of time relaying different parts of their"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":663.604,"endTime":669.708,"body":"story that happened at different points of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":663.604,"endTime":669.708,"body":"time and so they're narrating it differently."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":669.884,"endTime":676.28,"body":"Versus if you have a character who we're"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":669.884,"endTime":676.28,"body":"trying to evoke the feeling of living this"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":676.66,"endTime":682.7,"body":"experience with that character in the moment,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":676.66,"endTime":682.7,"body":"then I would not have a narrator or I would"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":682.74,"endTime":684.492,"body":"not be talking to a third party."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":684.596,"endTime":688.2,"body":"Because that separates you, that takes you out"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":684.596,"endTime":688.2,"body":"of it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":688.24,"endTime":693.432,"body":"If you're trying to evoke a feeling to your"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":688.24,"endTime":693.432,"body":"reader, you're in it with this character."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":693.576,"endTime":695.704,"body":"I want you to feel the way the character's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":693.576,"endTime":695.704,"body":"feeling."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":695.752,"endTime":700.744,"body":"I want you to experience this alongside them"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":695.752,"endTime":700.744,"body":"as if you're in it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":700.832,"endTime":702.616,"body":"Like next to them."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":702.768,"endTime":703.416,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":703.528,"endTime":705.896,"body":"Then I would say there's not a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":703.528,"endTime":705.896,"body":"narrator."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":705.928,"endTime":707.336,"body":"It's the stream of conscious thought."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":707.408,"endTime":708.072,"body":"It's the."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":708.176,"endTime":711.192,"body":"It's the voice that's going on inside the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":708.176,"endTime":711.192,"body":"head."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":711.376,"endTime":712.024,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":712.152,"endTime":712.84,"body":"So there's not."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":712.88,"endTime":714.86,"body":"I. I wanna clarify."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":714.94,"endTime":716.716,"body":"I think that's just a choice."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":716.828,"endTime":718.908,"body":"But be conscious of what choice you're making"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":718.964,"endTime":719.804,"body":"and why."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":719.972,"endTime":724.572,"body":"Yeah. Cause the last thing that you"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":719.972,"endTime":724.572,"body":"wanna do is like slipping it out of it all"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":724.596,"endTime":725.292,"body":"willy nilly."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":725.356,"endTime":725.532,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":725.556,"endTime":726.396,"body":"With no purpose."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":726.508,"endTime":727.148,"body":"Because I think."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":727.204,"endTime":727.42,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":727.46,"endTime":729.02,"body":"There's also a case to be made that there are"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":729.06,"endTime":733.532,"body":"certain cultures within which stories are told"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":729.06,"endTime":733.532,"body":"in a narrative way where somebody, you know,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":733.556,"endTime":735.66,"body":"where a character stands in a point of time"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":733.556,"endTime":735.66,"body":"and tells a story."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":735.7,"endTime":740.012,"body":"And I think that's what's happening with Amina"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":735.7,"endTime":740.012,"body":"Al Sarafi in this book is like, this is a."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":740.116,"endTime":744.48,"body":"She lives in a culture in which this kind of"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":740.116,"endTime":744.48,"body":"oral storytelling is very integral."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":745.36,"endTime":750.2,"body":"And so that's great for me personally."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":750.28,"endTime":750.568,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":750.624,"endTime":753.912,"body":"The first couple chapters where she was just"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":750.624,"endTime":753.912,"body":"kind of telling us a lot of stuff were not as"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":753.936,"endTime":756.456,"body":"engaging for me as when we finally like"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":753.936,"endTime":756.456,"body":"slipped into her skit."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":756.488,"endTime":757.74,"body":"She's a lady pirate."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":758.24,"endTime":758.904,"body":"Which is."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":758.992,"endTime":759.896,"body":"She's like a mom."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":759.968,"endTime":763.704,"body":"She's a mom of a 10 year old and she's a lady"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":759.968,"endTime":763.704,"body":"pirate and she goes back into lady pirating."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":763.752,"endTime":764.728,"body":"And it's amazing."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":764.904,"endTime":766.872,"body":"And so like, as soon as she's like with some"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":766.896,"endTime":770.392,"body":"knucklehead boys who don't realize who she is"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":766.896,"endTime":770.392,"body":"and think she's just some old lady and they"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":770.416,"endTime":772.292,"body":"like put her in this like precarious"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":770.416,"endTime":772.292,"body":"situation,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":772.356,"endTime":773.684,"body":"you have to like save their lives."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":773.772,"endTime":774.02,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":774.06,"endTime":775.732,"body":"Then I'm like slipped into her skin."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":775.796,"endTime":776.788,"body":"Like she's all Sassy."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":776.804,"endTime":780.276,"body":"I get to, like, see what it's like to live her"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":776.804,"endTime":780.276,"body":"life in her body, in her brain."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":780.468,"endTime":781.892,"body":"That was when I got really hooked."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":781.956,"endTime":783.732,"body":"But that doesn't mean, you know, it's like,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":783.756,"endTime":785.092,"body":"the wrong way to write that book."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":785.116,"endTime":788.132,"body":"It just was a very intentional choice that"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":788.156,"endTime":790.148,"body":"that author made of how they wanted to tell"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":788.156,"endTime":790.148,"body":"that story."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":790.204,"endTime":794.36,"body":"And so you just want to make sure that when"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":790.204,"endTime":794.36,"body":"you're going in, right, for your client,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":794.94,"endTime":798.516,"body":"your client wants to be sure that he"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":794.94,"endTime":798.516,"body":"understands who that internal voice is talking"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":798.548,"endTime":798.788,"body":"to."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":798.844,"endTime":800.276,"body":"Because otherwise, like, how are you supposed"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":800.308,"endTime":802.004,"body":"to make decisions on the front page?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":800.308,"endTime":802.004,"body":"And so that's."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":802.052,"endTime":806.292,"body":"That's what I would call a framework question,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":802.052,"endTime":806.292,"body":"like, where is your narrator?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":806.356,"endTime":807.044,"body":"Where's your."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":807.132,"endTime":808.468,"body":"Who's telling your story?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":808.604,"endTime":810.772,"body":"And are they telling it in real time?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":808.604,"endTime":810.772,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":810.796,"endTime":812.804,"body":"Are we living in their brain in real time?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":812.892,"endTime":815.108,"body":"Or are they telling it from a certain point in"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":812.892,"endTime":815.108,"body":"time?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":815.164,"endTime":819.316,"body":"Because wherever they are in time, telling"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":815.164,"endTime":819.316,"body":"that story is going to give them, Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":819.388,"endTime":822.32,"body":"Some bias and perspective on how they tell it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":823.34,"endTime":827.12,"body":"Didn't know this would be a framework for"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":823.34,"endTime":827.12,"body":"podcast, but."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":827.42,"endTime":829.012,"body":"But, yeah, well, some of it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":829.036,"endTime":829.84,"body":"But also,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":830.34,"endTime":834.428,"body":"I don't know if you've seen this going around"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":830.34,"endTime":834.428,"body":"social media, but it was another."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":834.564,"endTime":837.28,"body":"Another thing that came up during this"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":834.564,"endTime":837.28,"body":"conversation."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":838.02,"endTime":842.844,"body":"I have no idea if this is accurate because to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":838.02,"endTime":842.844,"body":"me, it feels like random social media"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":842.932,"endTime":845.404,"body":"misinformation, but it's brought."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":845.452,"endTime":847.98,"body":"I've seen it multiple times, and every time"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":848.02,"endTime":851.2,"body":"there's like an intense discussion in the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":848.02,"endTime":851.2,"body":"comment section."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":852.34,"endTime":859.77,"body":"The thing that I saw, again, no idea if this"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":852.34,"endTime":859.77,"body":"is true, is, is that only 33% of people have"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":859.89,"endTime":863.178,"body":"an actual stream of consciousness thought."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":863.234,"endTime":865.642,"body":"Like, you are thinking sentences and thinking"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":865.706,"endTime":869.034,"body":"words to yourself all the time."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":869.202,"endTime":876.73,"body":"And that, like the other portion of society or"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":869.202,"endTime":876.73,"body":"the collective human experience is not"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":876.85,"endTime":878.282,"body":"thinking like that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":878.386,"endTime":881.53,"body":"They are thinking in images or some other"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":881.57,"endTime":884.722,"body":"nebulous way of experiencing consciousness."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":884.786,"endTime":885.73,"body":"And like, that's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":885.81,"endTime":888.642,"body":"To me, the reason that feels so, like, that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":888.666,"endTime":892.07,"body":"cannot be true is because I think in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":888.666,"endTime":892.07,"body":"sentences."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":892.49,"endTime":895.938,"body":"And to me I'm like, that's just consciousness."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":896.114,"endTime":900.29,"body":"But we started discussing this because if you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":900.33,"endTime":902.258,"body":"don't think in conscious thought and you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":902.314,"endTime":904.034,"body":"And I don't, I'm, again, I really am not"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":904.042,"endTime":905.138,"body":"trying to judge anybody."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":905.234,"endTime":907.89,"body":"Yeah, this is not you, but like, to see a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":905.234,"endTime":907.89,"body":"number like that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":907.93,"endTime":909.03,"body":"I was like, whoa,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":909.42,"endTime":911.36,"body":"that's not how my brain does it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":911.98,"endTime":920.612,"body":"If someone else's brain doesn't have a think"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":911.98,"endTime":920.612,"body":"in words standard, or like, that's not how you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":920.636,"endTime":921.156,"body":"think in words."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":921.188,"endTime":922.52,"body":"You don't think in words."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":922.86,"endTime":926.468,"body":"This would be something you'd have to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":922.86,"endTime":926.468,"body":"consciously bring out."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":926.604,"endTime":930.548,"body":"You know, it would be different than what's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":926.604,"endTime":930.548,"body":"going on inside your own head."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":930.684,"endTime":933.092,"body":"And that would be its own level of challenge."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":933.236,"endTime":934.08,"body":"You know,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":934.79,"endTime":938.734,"body":"that's an interesting, that's an interesting"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":934.79,"endTime":938.734,"body":"like point though, because then you can make"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":938.742,"endTime":940.83,"body":"the argument that characters are going to be"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":938.742,"endTime":940.83,"body":"different too."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":940.87,"endTime":941.07,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":941.11,"endTime":942.798,"body":"Some characters are going to think"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":942.934,"endTime":944.014,"body":"obsessively."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":944.142,"endTime":944.478,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":944.534,"endTime":946.782,"body":"Like, if you've ever read, you know, one of"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":946.806,"endTime":952.894,"body":"those, like super pro, like not prosaic,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":946.806,"endTime":952.894,"body":"that's not the right word, but like one of"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":952.902,"endTime":953.822,"body":"those romance novels, right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":953.846,"endTime":955.422,"body":"Where the characters are just like obsessively"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":955.486,"endTime":956.89,"body":"thinking all of the time."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":957.27,"endTime":957.726,"body":"Great."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":957.798,"endTime":958.77,"body":"Love those books."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":959.51,"endTime":964.472,"body":"That's going to be so different than like some"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":959.51,"endTime":964.472,"body":"other book with a character who doesn't like"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":964.496,"endTime":965.832,"body":"it, doesn't think obsessively like that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":965.856,"endTime":966.04,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":966.08,"endTime":971.832,"body":"If you have like a. I just read the Dry by"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":966.08,"endTime":971.832,"body":"Jane Harper."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":971.896,"endTime":973.18,"body":"It was fantastic."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":974.32,"endTime":974.968,"body":"And the."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":975.024,"endTime":977.592,"body":"It's got a male point of view detective who"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":977.616,"endTime":981.256,"body":"thinks in these like, very like, dry sort of"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":977.616,"endTime":981.256,"body":"ways."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":981.288,"endTime":983.8,"body":"And a lot of it is like visual, right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":983.84,"endTime":985.72,"body":"It's not a lot of internal processing."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":985.8,"endTime":987.528,"body":"And so, you know, there."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":987.584,"endTime":989.016,"body":"You can think about that with your character"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":989.048,"endTime":989.432,"body":"too, right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":989.456,"endTime":991.56,"body":"Are they somebody who, who processes things"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":991.6,"endTime":994.956,"body":"that way or are they somebody who processes"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":991.6,"endTime":994.956,"body":"things in a physical manner?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":994.988,"endTime":995.132,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":995.156,"endTime":996.716,"body":"Are they feeling a lot of stuff?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":996.828,"endTime":1001.052,"body":"Are they paying attention?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":996.828,"endTime":1001.052,"body":"Like, is it visual how they process the world?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1001.156,"endTime":1004.268,"body":"And you can kind of weave that into your"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1001.156,"endTime":1004.268,"body":"writing as well."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1004.324,"endTime":1004.972,"body":"It doesn't."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1005.036,"endTime":1006.124,"body":"Just because you're."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1006.252,"endTime":1011.644,"body":"You want an immersive story, you want to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1006.252,"endTime":1011.644,"body":"create an immersive story, doesn't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1011.692,"endTime":1016.172,"body":"mean that your character has to like wax"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1011.692,"endTime":1016.172,"body":"poetic about everything in their head if"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1016.196,"endTime":1017.772,"body":"that's not in their character."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1017.836,"endTime":1018.62,"body":"Right, right."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1018.74,"endTime":1019.89,"body":"Right, exactly."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1020.02,"endTime":1020.73,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1021.79,"endTime":1026.23,"body":"That's kind of where we ended up settling with"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1021.79,"endTime":1026.23,"body":"this character for my one on one client was"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1026.27,"endTime":1032.182,"body":"like, this character has probably not as much"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1026.27,"endTime":1032.182,"body":"internal processing as maybe my characters do"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1032.206,"endTime":1033.51,"body":"who never shut up."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1033.63,"endTime":1038.982,"body":"But like, this character does, however, search"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1033.63,"endTime":1038.982,"body":"out a lot of dialogue, like a lot of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1039.006,"endTime":1043.062,"body":"conversation partners, because that's how"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1039.006,"endTime":1043.062,"body":"they're going to think through what they need"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1043.086,"endTime":1044.13,"body":"to think through."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1044.59,"endTime":1046.77,"body":"So, yeah, a characterization question,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1047.67,"endTime":1049.29,"body":"a narrator question,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1049.67,"endTime":1051.262,"body":"you know, the framework question."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1051.366,"endTime":1053.486,"body":"It's a. It's a lot of different angles to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1053.558,"endTime":1054.89,"body":"answer this and consider."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1055.59,"endTime":1057.53,"body":"But what I think a good."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1058.39,"endTime":1060.01,"body":"There were like two."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1060.71,"endTime":1062.158,"body":"Let's learn more about this."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1062.214,"endTime":1063.854,"body":"Things that I. I had talked about with my"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1063.862,"endTime":1065.214,"body":"client or I had been thinking about."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1065.302,"endTime":1067.422,"body":"And like, the first one is pay attention to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1067.446,"endTime":1068.542,"body":"the books you're reading."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1068.686,"endTime":1073.15,"body":"How do the books you're reading do it?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1068.686,"endTime":1073.15,"body":"Like, and you can ask yourself, are they"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1073.19,"endTime":1076.962,"body":"talking to someone or are they talking to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1073.19,"endTime":1076.962,"body":"themselves in their internal narration."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1077.106,"endTime":1081.202,"body":"And you'll be able to tell the difference if"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1077.106,"endTime":1081.202,"body":"you pay attention to it, whether they're, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1081.226,"endTime":1085.41,"body":"know, standing outside of time and telling a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1081.226,"endTime":1085.41,"body":"story or if they are in the scene,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1085.57,"endTime":1087.35,"body":"you know, experiencing as it goes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1088.09,"endTime":1094.85,"body":"So paying attention to how the books, how"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1088.09,"endTime":1094.85,"body":"other books do it, but also comparing to like"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1094.89,"endTime":1099.25,"body":"comp titles, I think is always a good idea to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1094.89,"endTime":1099.25,"body":"like be well read in."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1099.29,"endTime":1103.24,"body":"In your genre to understand what works in the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1099.29,"endTime":1103.24,"body":"market."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1103.54,"endTime":1107.404,"body":"Yeah. Because what I will say is if"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1103.54,"endTime":1107.404,"body":"your readers like the people who are going to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1107.412,"endTime":1114.412,"body":"pick up your book, if they are not, if they"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1107.412,"endTime":1114.412,"body":"are not used to being told a story, it's going"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1114.436,"endTime":1115.4,"body":"to turn them off."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1116.1,"endTime":1122.46,"body":"And so, you know, in certain genres that it's"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1116.1,"endTime":1122.46,"body":"totally acceptable and even expected, but in"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1122.5,"endTime":1123.228,"body":"some it's not."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1123.284,"endTime":1126.876,"body":"And I think that throws people a lot if that's"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1126.908,"endTime":1129.098,"body":"not what they're expecting from your type of a"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1126.908,"endTime":1129.098,"body":"story."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1129.244,"endTime":1133.902,"body":"Yes. Cool. Any other thoughts on this"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1129.244,"endTime":1133.902,"body":"one?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1133.926,"endTime":1134.43,"body":"I think so."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1134.47,"endTime":1135.534,"body":"It's a great question."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1135.702,"endTime":1138.142,"body":"Yeah, we had a really good discussion"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1135.702,"endTime":1138.142,"body":"about it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1138.246,"endTime":1138.97,"body":"And again,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1140.07,"endTime":1144.25,"body":"if you're thinking like, well, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1140.07,"endTime":1144.25,"body":"how to use character thoughts at all."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1144.71,"endTime":1150.718,"body":"We have kind of three show don't tell episodes"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1144.71,"endTime":1150.718,"body":"that are episode 49, 50 and 51."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1150.854,"endTime":1159.94,"body":"And episodes 49 and episode 51 are both going"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1150.854,"endTime":1159.94,"body":"to go into like, how to use the technique of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1159.98,"endTime":1166.772,"body":"internal processing as like a prose skill to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1159.98,"endTime":1166.772,"body":"show what your characters are thinking,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1166.836,"endTime":1168.08,"body":"feeling and doing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1168.7,"endTime":1170.16,"body":"So go check those out."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1171.42,"endTime":1172.42,"body":"Yeah. Awesome."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1172.5,"endTime":1173.16,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1173.82,"endTime":1177.204,"body":"Cool. If you want to build a"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1173.82,"endTime":1177.204,"body":"successful, fulfilling and sustainable writing"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1177.252,"endTime":1179.7,"body":"life that works for you, you've got to get on"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1177.252,"endTime":1179.7,"body":"our email list."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1179.82,"endTime":1183.348,"body":"Sign up now to get our free email"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1179.82,"endTime":1183.348,"body":"course, the Magic of Character Arcs."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1183.444,"endTime":1187.632,"body":"After seven days of email magic, you'll have"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1183.444,"endTime":1187.632,"body":"the power to keep your read flipping pages all"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1187.656,"endTime":1188.304,"body":"through the night."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1188.392,"endTime":1189.296,"body":"Link in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1189.328,"endTime":1189.8,"body":"We'll see you there."}]}