{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":13.84,"endTime":14.416,"body":"Hey, writers."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":14.424,"endTime":16.472,"body":"Welcome back to Story Magic, the podcast that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":16.496,"endTime":18.264,"body":"will help you write a book you're damn proud"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":16.496,"endTime":18.264,"body":"of."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":18.352,"endTime":19.144,"body":"I'm Emily."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":19.272,"endTime":20.648,"body":"And I'm Rachel."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":20.824,"endTime":25.342,"body":"And today we are going to talk about"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":20.824,"endTime":25.342,"body":"writing sequels because we both just wrap fun."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":25.496,"endTime":26.018,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":26.114,"endTime":29.19,"body":"And they are their own little beast."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":30.57,"endTime":35.042,"body":"And I know that they have a unique."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":35.186,"endTime":35.842,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":35.986,"endTime":37.202,"body":"A set of challenges."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":37.346,"endTime":39.586,"body":"So I thought I've gotten questions about this"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":39.658,"endTime":45.55,"body":"from folks before, honestly, like, mostly"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":39.658,"endTime":45.55,"body":"before I ever wrote one, you know,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":46.25,"endTime":48.87,"body":"because it takes a while to get to the point"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":46.25,"endTime":48.87,"body":"where you're writing sequels."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":49.77,"endTime":54.742,"body":"But I know that a lot of people have questions"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":49.77,"endTime":54.742,"body":"about, like, you know, how much do you should,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":54.766,"endTime":59.062,"body":"you know about your second book before you"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":54.766,"endTime":59.062,"body":"finish this first one, before you sell the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":59.086,"endTime":62.55,"body":"first one, before, you know, and then, like,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":59.086,"endTime":62.55,"body":"how do you and I."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":62.59,"endTime":67.862,"body":"There's no obviously right answer for how much"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":62.59,"endTime":67.862,"body":"to know, but I do think that there are, you"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":67.886,"endTime":73.29,"body":"know, tips and tricks, and I, for me, made the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":67.886,"endTime":73.29,"body":"mistake of not knowing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":74.99,"endTime":75.558,"body":"Do you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":75.614,"endTime":77.09,"body":"I don't know if you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":77.63,"endTime":81.856,"body":"When you start, sold it and if you can't talk"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":77.63,"endTime":81.856,"body":"about this, we'll edit."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":81.888,"endTime":82.848,"body":"We'll edit it out."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":82.984,"endTime":85.1,"body":"When you sold it,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":86.28,"endTime":87.392,"body":"you sold it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":87.416,"endTime":91.312,"body":"If I remember, as with series potential or did"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":91.336,"endTime":94.42,"body":"you sell it?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":91.336,"endTime":94.42,"body":"I sell this exact duology."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":94.76,"endTime":95.744,"body":"I sold two bucks."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":95.792,"endTime":99.52,"body":"Okay. So I guess I should say when you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":95.792,"endTime":99.52,"body":"query, when you wrote it and when you queried,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":99.68,"endTime":105.31,"body":"did you query it as a book with series"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":99.68,"endTime":105.31,"body":"potential or did you query it as a duology?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":105.48,"endTime":109.618,"body":"I know you're called as a duology, so"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":105.48,"endTime":109.618,"body":"there's a very specific reason for that, which"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":109.674,"endTime":111.378,"body":"if you read our la."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":111.434,"endTime":114.31,"body":"Or listen, read, listen to our last podcast,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":114.73,"endTime":116.23,"body":"you will make you laugh."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":116.73,"endTime":117.378,"body":"My first."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":117.434,"endTime":119.75,"body":"So my duology is a romance."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":120.25,"endTime":121.794,"body":"The first book is not."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":121.962,"endTime":122.67,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":122.97,"endTime":127.842,"body":"So when I. I had to market it as a"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":122.97,"endTime":127.842,"body":"duology because I was like, it's a romance."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":127.986,"endTime":130.226,"body":"There will be a happy ending."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":130.338,"endTime":131.57,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":131.73,"endTime":133.25,"body":"There just isn't right now."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":133.37,"endTime":134.882,"body":"Which is common, I think, for a lot of"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":134.906,"endTime":135.49,"body":"romance."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":135.57,"endTime":137.77,"body":"Romance duology is that, like, the first one"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":137.81,"endTime":139.882,"body":"is, like, everything blows up in the second"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":137.81,"endTime":139.882,"body":"one."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":139.906,"endTime":140.65,"body":"They, like, come back together."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":140.69,"endTime":142.506,"body":"It's just like a longer version of a romance"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":142.538,"endTime":143.15,"body":"arc."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":144.45,"endTime":146.35,"body":"So I knew that I wanted,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":147.17,"endTime":149.63,"body":"you know, to have some version of a happy"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":147.17,"endTime":149.63,"body":"ending,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":150.37,"endTime":156.202,"body":"and I needed people to know that that's where"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":150.37,"endTime":156.202,"body":"this book was going, and that was at the heart"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":156.226,"endTime":156.73,"body":"of this book."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":156.77,"endTime":159.706,"body":"And so, so my agent then, you know, encouraged"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":159.738,"endTime":163.034,"body":"me to bring out the romance even more, and"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":159.738,"endTime":163.034,"body":"then so did my editor, and, you know, we made"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":163.042,"endTime":164.11,"body":"it more and more and more and more,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":164.21,"endTime":165.61,"body":"more and more romantic."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":166.75,"endTime":167.49,"body":"And."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":168.59,"endTime":171.33,"body":"And so I. Yeah, so When I."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":172.11,"endTime":174.79,"body":"When I sold it, it sold as a two book deal."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":174.83,"endTime":176.01,"body":"So I got paid,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":176.91,"endTime":180.49,"body":"you know, upfront for those, for that book to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":176.91,"endTime":180.49,"body":"be written."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":181.23,"endTime":185.302,"body":"But history of behind the Crimson Curtain is"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":181.23,"endTime":185.302,"body":"that I originally thought it was going to be"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":185.326,"endTime":186.038,"body":"one book."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":186.174,"endTime":187.158,"body":"That's what I thought that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":187.214,"endTime":187.542,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":187.606,"endTime":188.25,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":188.59,"endTime":193.062,"body":"Like, before I even finished the first draft,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":188.59,"endTime":193.062,"body":"I actually, while I was writing the first"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":193.086,"endTime":196.13,"body":"draft, I reached to the midpoint and I was"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":193.086,"endTime":196.13,"body":"like, oh, this is a book."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":196.81,"endTime":201.618,"body":"So. And then I split it into two timelines and"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":196.81,"endTime":201.618,"body":"I had to weave the timelines together."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":201.674,"endTime":206.29,"body":"And in that process, I unintentionally took a"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":201.674,"endTime":206.29,"body":"lot of the ideas that I had for the second"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":206.41,"endTime":213.09,"body":"half of what was gonna be the first book or"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":206.41,"endTime":213.09,"body":"like the solo book, and put it into the first"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":213.13,"endTime":213.762,"body":"one."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":213.946,"endTime":217.99,"body":"So when I went to go write the second one, I"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":213.946,"endTime":217.99,"body":"was like, all my good ideas are gone."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":218.65,"endTime":219.63,"body":"We're out."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":220.65,"endTime":222.39,"body":"The faucet is dry."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":223.63,"endTime":224.198,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":224.294,"endTime":224.87,"body":"And I did."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":224.91,"endTime":227.51,"body":"I had written a one page synopsis, so I did."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":227.55,"endTime":233.318,"body":"I wasn't starting with nothing, but it was"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":227.55,"endTime":233.318,"body":"like not the strongest of synopses."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":233.414,"endTime":238.758,"body":"It was like, I'm just gonna, like, make it,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":233.414,"endTime":238.758,"body":"you know, sound interesting and fun."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":238.814,"endTime":241.878,"body":"But like, I. I think my biggest."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":241.974,"endTime":243.478,"body":"I don't want to call it a mistake."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":243.574,"endTime":244.118,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":244.254,"endTime":247.782,"body":"But like my biggest challenge maybe is I had"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":247.806,"endTime":250.53,"body":"no idea what the heck my characters wanted."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":250.61,"endTime":250.914,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":250.962,"endTime":251.954,"body":"Like, book one ended."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":252.002,"endTime":253.01,"body":"Everything blew up."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":253.13,"endTime":255.186,"body":"Sorry for everybody who read it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":255.258,"endTime":255.89,"body":"I promise."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":255.97,"endTime":257.07,"body":"Been out a while."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":258.33,"endTime":258.834,"body":"There's."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":258.882,"endTime":260.07,"body":"People are so mad."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":261.13,"endTime":262.514,"body":"I'll put it back together."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":262.682,"endTime":265.83,"body":"You say you're the queen of cliffhangers."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":267.05,"endTime":268.034,"body":"Everybody knows."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":268.082,"endTime":272.59,"body":"I feel like sometimes in romantasy or in, like"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":273.37,"endTime":277.23,"body":"in my niche of romance, why choose Mafia?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":277.97,"endTime":279.194,"body":"Nobody dies."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":279.322,"endTime":281.162,"body":"Everybody's getting together and we're all"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":281.186,"endTime":281.946,"body":"happy about it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":282.018,"endTime":283.962,"body":"Like, I do feel like even with the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":283.986,"endTime":286.43,"body":"cliffhangers, it's not really that cliffy."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":287.25,"endTime":288.618,"body":"We're gonna be fine."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":288.794,"endTime":292.106,"body":"Everybody knows mine's a little more"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":288.794,"endTime":292.106,"body":"genre bendy."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":292.218,"endTime":292.538,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":292.594,"endTime":294.778,"body":"People were a little bit like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":292.594,"endTime":294.778,"body":"what?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":294.914,"endTime":295.738,"body":"That's what I'm saying."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":295.794,"endTime":298.97,"body":"I do feel like in yours, go."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":299.01,"endTime":300.57,"body":"Reflect more of my."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":300.69,"endTime":301.87,"body":"My reviews."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":302.45,"endTime":306.14,"body":"Like, what the hell was that?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":302.45,"endTime":306.14,"body":"Yeah, I feel like that's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":306.22,"endTime":310.044,"body":"There's more of a question of, like, are these"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":306.22,"endTime":310.044,"body":"people ever going to be happy?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":310.172,"endTime":312.844,"body":"And like in mine, we all know they're going to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":310.172,"endTime":312.844,"body":"be happy."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":312.972,"endTime":314.44,"body":"No, that's so fair."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":314.82,"endTime":319.92,"body":"So if you haven't listened to our podcast on"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":314.82,"endTime":319.92,"body":"what not to do about genres,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":320.26,"endTime":321.164,"body":"go do that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":321.252,"endTime":322.492,"body":"It's last week."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":322.676,"endTime":324.604,"body":"No, but sequels."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":324.652,"endTime":324.972,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":325.036,"endTime":325.88,"body":"So I."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":326.98,"endTime":331.676,"body":"So, yeah, I sold behind the Curtain of the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":326.98,"endTime":331.676,"body":"Curtain, had to revise it and then I had to go"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":331.748,"endTime":332.524,"body":"write a sequel."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":332.572,"endTime":336.682,"body":"And I really had no idea what the heck my"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":336.706,"endTime":339.418,"body":"characters wanted."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":339.594,"endTime":342.362,"body":"I was like, I don't even know what their plans"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":339.594,"endTime":342.362,"body":"are."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":342.466,"endTime":344.41,"body":"Um, and that was the worst."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":344.49,"endTime":346.762,"body":"That was honestly, I think the hardest part of"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":346.786,"endTime":348.95,"body":"it was I just didn't know where to start."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":349.25,"endTime":349.866,"body":"Like, I didn't."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":349.898,"endTime":351.162,"body":"I didn't know where to pick up, because I"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":351.186,"endTime":351.578,"body":"didn't."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":351.674,"endTime":353.562,"body":"There were a lot of different options for how"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":353.586,"endTime":356.23,"body":"they might have reacted to what happened at"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":353.586,"endTime":356.23,"body":"the end of book one."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":356.77,"endTime":358.938,"body":"And I felt all this pressure to pick the right"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":356.77,"endTime":358.938,"body":"one."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":358.994,"endTime":360.442,"body":"Cause I was on this tight timeline."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":360.506,"endTime":360.778,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":360.834,"endTime":366.684,"body":"And I honestly didn't even really figure out"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":360.834,"endTime":366.684,"body":"exactly how to nail, like, their motivations"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":366.732,"endTime":370.2,"body":"at the beginning of the book until, you know,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":366.732,"endTime":370.2,"body":"probably draft three."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":371.38,"endTime":377.516,"body":"But I am sworn off series for a minute."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":377.708,"endTime":381.34,"body":"My next book's gonna be a standalone because"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":381.38,"endTime":382.764,"body":"it was so hard."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":382.932,"endTime":383.68,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":384.1,"endTime":388.772,"body":"So anyway, what was your experience,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":384.1,"endTime":388.772,"body":"like, going from your first to second book?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":388.916,"endTime":389.588,"body":"A little different."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":389.644,"endTime":391.828,"body":"But before we get to that, when you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":391.884,"endTime":393.316,"body":"I just feel like this is."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":393.388,"endTime":396.084,"body":"There's a lot of lessons, or not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":396.132,"endTime":399.556,"body":"lessons, but, like, this is so interesting to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":396.132,"endTime":399.556,"body":"me."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":399.628,"endTime":401.764,"body":"And especially because you mentioned you are"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":399.628,"endTime":401.764,"body":"getting."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":401.852,"endTime":403.268,"body":"We always get questions."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":403.364,"endTime":405.892,"body":"Should you have your series plotted well in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":405.916,"endTime":408.884,"body":"advance?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":405.916,"endTime":408.884,"body":"And I am always going to say, who cares?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":409.012,"endTime":409.636,"body":"Nope."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":409.748,"endTime":411.236,"body":"Because I'm never going to do it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":411.308,"endTime":412.42,"body":"I'm just not going to do it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":412.46,"endTime":412.66,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":412.7,"endTime":415.06,"body":"No. But what I do think is really interesting"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":415.14,"endTime":418.698,"body":"is that when you wrote behind the Crimson"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":415.14,"endTime":418.698,"body":"Curtain, you wrote it as a standalone, you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":418.724,"endTime":422.382,"body":"You sold it as a duology, and then had to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":418.724,"endTime":422.382,"body":"write the second book."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":422.486,"endTime":423.89,"body":"So I feel like there's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":424.31,"endTime":429.47,"body":"I feel like there's so much flexibility there"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":424.31,"endTime":429.47,"body":"that I would have, as an outsider looking into"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":429.51,"endTime":433.966,"body":"TRAD would have been like, oh, there's no way"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":429.51,"endTime":433.966,"body":"you could sell a duology without."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":434.118,"endTime":437.55,"body":"And you said you had a synopsis, but, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":434.118,"endTime":437.55,"body":"without having everything perfect."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":437.63,"endTime":439.262,"body":"And, like, clearly that's not true."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":439.326,"endTime":439.566,"body":"That's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":439.598,"endTime":440.75,"body":"My point is like."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":440.79,"endTime":441.454,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":441.502,"endTime":445.326,"body":"My point is that you still were able"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":441.502,"endTime":445.326,"body":"to go through this whole process without"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":445.398,"endTime":446.654,"body":"having all the answers."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":446.782,"endTime":447.134,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":447.182,"endTime":449.454,"body":"And TRAD was perfectly fine with that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":449.542,"endTime":450.526,"body":"I feel like that's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":450.638,"endTime":453.406,"body":"That's a disconnect for some people where"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":450.638,"endTime":453.406,"body":"they."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":453.478,"endTime":458.574,"body":"They expect so much of the TRAD process, and I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":453.478,"endTime":458.574,"body":"don't think it always has."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":458.662,"endTime":461.294,"body":"There's no. Every writer's experience is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":458.662,"endTime":461.294,"body":"different."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":461.382,"endTime":462.942,"body":"That's the point that I'm getting at."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":463.046,"endTime":463.326,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":463.358,"endTime":465.29,"body":"Yeah. Because I'm sure, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":463.358,"endTime":465.29,"body":"other."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":465.59,"endTime":470.126,"body":"I'm thinking of a couple other writers who"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":465.59,"endTime":470.126,"body":"have done similar things, you know, and the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":470.278,"endTime":470.958,"body":"writers."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":471.054,"endTime":474.454,"body":"I've seen writers sell like their,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":471.054,"endTime":474.454,"body":"their first book proposal."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":474.502,"endTime":477.046,"body":"Right on proposal with like a paragraph."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":477.158,"endTime":477.734,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":477.862,"endTime":479.686,"body":"Pitch for the rest of them."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":479.758,"endTime":482.118,"body":"Like, here's what I think, where it's gonna"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":482.134,"endTime":482.31,"body":"go."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":482.35,"endTime":482.838,"body":"Maybe."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":482.934,"endTime":485.926,"body":"Yeah. And I, I think that's great and"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":482.934,"endTime":485.926,"body":"fine."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":485.958,"endTime":488.774,"body":"And I think it's important that people"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":485.958,"endTime":488.774,"body":"understand that that is sometimes how it"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":488.782,"endTime":489.11,"body":"works."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":489.19,"endTime":491.53,"body":"I also think it, that comes with tricks."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":491.87,"endTime":496.63,"body":"It's a little, little bit tricky because then"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":491.87,"endTime":496.63,"body":"you gotta write those books."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":496.79,"endTime":498.614,"body":"And I think there's kind of two lessons."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":498.662,"endTime":500.422,"body":"One which is if you can be a little bit"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":500.446,"endTime":501.974,"body":"prepared, that's not a bad thing."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":502.062,"endTime":503.91,"body":"Right. I wish that I had been."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":503.95,"endTime":505.258,"body":"I think there was a part of."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":505.374,"endTime":508.194,"body":"Truly, if I'm being totally honest, I think"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":505.374,"endTime":508.194,"body":"there was a part of me that didn't think it"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":508.202,"endTime":513.154,"body":"would sell and that was afraid to fall in love"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":508.202,"endTime":513.154,"body":"with another book idea if it wasn't going to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":513.162,"endTime":513.762,"body":"go anywhere."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":513.826,"endTime":514.578,"body":"And so I think."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":514.634,"endTime":516.882,"body":"And that's not a healthy or good positive"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":516.946,"endTime":518.29,"body":"reason to not do that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":518.33,"endTime":518.578,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":518.634,"endTime":521.75,"body":"That's me fearing, putting faith in myself."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":523.13,"endTime":524.754,"body":"And that's a good point."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":524.922,"endTime":526.11,"body":"Sorry, go ahead."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":526.49,"endTime":531.122,"body":"So my point is like, by the time I had"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":526.49,"endTime":531.122,"body":"an agent and that I still wasn't entirely sure"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":531.146,"endTime":531.73,"body":"it was going to sell."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":531.77,"endTime":531.97,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":532.01,"endTime":536.624,"body":"And so I like held off and held off until it"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":532.01,"endTime":536.624,"body":"was kind of too, like not too late, but like"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":536.712,"endTime":537.936,"body":"now I had to think of an idea."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":537.968,"endTime":539.04,"body":"Like I was there, you were there."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":539.16,"endTime":540.784,"body":"I didn't have anything to work with."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":540.872,"endTime":541.184,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":541.232,"endTime":546.832,"body":"Well, I do feel like there is the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":541.232,"endTime":546.832,"body":"advice that if you are going to query a book"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":546.936,"endTime":551.92,"body":"and you think it could have a sequel, I have"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":546.936,"endTime":551.92,"body":"heard plenty of people say, don't work on that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":551.96,"endTime":552.576,"body":"sequel."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":552.688,"endTime":557.6,"body":"Work on a new project so that you have another"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":552.688,"endTime":557.6,"body":"thing to sell if this one book doesn't work"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":557.64,"endTime":558.22,"body":"out."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":558.52,"endTime":563.274,"body":"So I mean, I feel like that's what a lot of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":563.282,"endTime":567.77,"body":"people would have told you to do, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":563.282,"endTime":567.77,"body":"because if you're not going to sell this one"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":567.81,"endTime":568.39,"body":"book,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":569.09,"endTime":570.874,"body":"this is in massive air quotes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":570.922,"endTime":572.106,"body":"And I don't agree with this."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":572.178,"endTime":576.122,"body":"It would be a massive waste of time to work on"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":572.178,"endTime":576.122,"body":"the sequel if you're not going to sell the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":576.146,"endTime":576.746,"body":"first one."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":576.818,"endTime":578.586,"body":"So there is advice out there."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":578.738,"endTime":582.09,"body":"Don't work on the sequel until you have the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":582.13,"endTime":582.714,"body":"deal."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":582.882,"endTime":584.602,"body":"Work on a separate project."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":584.786,"endTime":592.05,"body":"I think in retrospect for myself, I"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":584.786,"endTime":592.05,"body":"think I could have had a stronger and like"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":592.09,"endTime":597.698,"body":"more confident experience if I had written"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":592.09,"endTime":597.698,"body":"that, that one page synopsis for the second"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":597.754,"endTime":598.61,"body":"book ahead of time."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":598.65,"endTime":600.178,"body":"I actually, now it's coming back to me."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":600.234,"endTime":602.498,"body":"See, this is so hazy because I was postpartum."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":602.594,"endTime":605.794,"body":"So if you haven't been listening to the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":602.594,"endTime":605.794,"body":"Podcast I sold behind the Crimson Curtain the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":605.802,"endTime":606.754,"body":"week my daughter was born."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":606.802,"endTime":613.51,"body":"Right. And I was asked for a synopsis of the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":606.802,"endTime":613.51,"body":"second book as part of my acquisitions"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":614.23,"endTime":614.878,"body":"process."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":615.014,"endTime":617.31,"body":"So it wasn't even something that went out to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":617.35,"endTime":621.902,"body":"editors with my packet that like, my agent"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":617.35,"endTime":621.902,"body":"didn't ask for it, she didn't send it out."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":621.926,"endTime":622.11,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":622.15,"endTime":624.222,"body":"It was just like billed as a two buck deal."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":624.326,"endTime":624.83,"body":"And it was."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":624.87,"endTime":627.134,"body":"I wasn't asked for synopsis until an editor"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":627.182,"endTime":629.822,"body":"was interested and then I was postpartum."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":629.966,"endTime":632.382,"body":"Like, I have to come up with a one pager for"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":632.406,"endTime":636.142,"body":"this book and I wish that I'd had it already."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":636.246,"endTime":641.134,"body":"That, yeah, you know, and you know, I can't"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":636.246,"endTime":641.134,"body":"change the past, but I do think if I was to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":641.142,"endTime":645.244,"body":"write a series in the future for myself, I"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":641.142,"endTime":645.244,"body":"would want to have, I would have a stronger"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":645.292,"endTime":647.996,"body":"experience both of knowing where the first"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":645.292,"endTime":647.996,"body":"book kind of sat."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":648.028,"endTime":651.34,"body":"If I had just a one pager, obviously it's"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":648.028,"endTime":651.34,"body":"going to change, right?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":651.38,"endTime":654.156,"body":"But just a one pager kind of idea of where"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":651.38,"endTime":654.156,"body":"the, where the story was going."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":654.228,"endTime":655.836,"body":"I think that would have helped me a lot."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":655.988,"endTime":656.796,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":656.988,"endTime":659.58,"body":"Yeah. But you don't work that way, so"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":656.988,"endTime":659.58,"body":"tell me about it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":659.62,"endTime":661.004,"body":"No. Oh, well, okay."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":661.052,"endTime":662.396,"body":"So I think mine."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":662.588,"endTime":667.2,"body":"I started this book, I started my first book"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":662.588,"endTime":667.2,"body":"planning four books,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":667.54,"endTime":671.574,"body":"so I knew there were going to be at least"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":667.54,"endTime":671.574,"body":"four."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":671.772,"endTime":678.258,"body":"And I made that decision early because I had"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":671.772,"endTime":678.258,"body":"read other books in my genre and really"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":678.314,"endTime":680.61,"body":"enjoyed the."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":680.65,"endTime":683.666,"body":"I'm thinking of a specific comp title of mine,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":683.778,"endTime":685.218,"body":"which I really love."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":685.354,"endTime":690.05,"body":"And I was like, I could write four books like"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":685.354,"endTime":690.05,"body":"that and this, this series does incredible."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":690.21,"endTime":691.538,"body":"I could comp to this."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":691.594,"endTime":693.762,"body":"I will think about writing 4."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":693.946,"endTime":695.49,"body":"How am I going to fill it?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":695.61,"endTime":697.31,"body":"That was really my first question."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":697.8,"endTime":703.248,"body":"And we've, you know, all of the work we've"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":697.8,"endTime":703.248,"body":"done on planning a series, we did that before"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":703.304,"endTime":704.736,"body":"I started writing this."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":704.888,"endTime":706.1,"body":"These books."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":706.6,"endTime":712.928,"body":"So I already kind of knew what to set up for"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":706.6,"endTime":712.928,"body":"myself, what to expect of myself, what to look"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":712.984,"endTime":713.58,"body":"for."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":714.68,"endTime":720.02,"body":"Where my process differs is like, I know the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":714.68,"endTime":720.02,"body":"big problems."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":721.48,"endTime":724.192,"body":"This is not a huge spoiler."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":724.256,"endTime":726.94,"body":"But in the first, in my first book,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":727.31,"endTime":734.246,"body":"my main character, during her all is lost,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":727.31,"endTime":734.246,"body":"uncovers that her father is basically the root"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":734.358,"endTime":736.73,"body":"of three big problems."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":737.23,"endTime":740.822,"body":"And that's the plot of my three remaining"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":737.23,"endTime":740.822,"body":"books."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":740.886,"endTime":743.83,"body":"So we have the first book, which is like"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":740.886,"endTime":743.83,"body":"uncovering the mystery."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":743.91,"endTime":747.83,"body":"And then like the second book is about the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":743.91,"endTime":747.83,"body":"first problem that her dad caused."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":747.91,"endTime":752.374,"body":"And the third book is about this, the second"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":747.91,"endTime":752.374,"body":"problem that her dad calls."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":752.422,"endTime":756.672,"body":"And the fourth book will be about fixing the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":752.422,"endTime":756.672,"body":"rest, all of it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":756.776,"endTime":762.66,"body":"So, like, I knew what each book was going to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":756.776,"endTime":762.66,"body":"Be about as far as the problem, I had no idea."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":763.0,"endTime":764.336,"body":"Sounds nice, though."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":764.488,"endTime":765.5,"body":"I was like."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":767.32,"endTime":767.984,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":768.112,"endTime":772.832,"body":"So I knew what it's about because I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":768.112,"endTime":772.832,"body":"had set that up for myself in the first book"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":772.936,"endTime":775.392,"body":"in a very clear way."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":775.576,"endTime":777.952,"body":"When I wrote that, I was like, these are going"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":777.976,"endTime":779.58,"body":"to be the plots of the other book."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":780.23,"endTime":782.17,"body":"But as far as, like, what."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":782.79,"endTime":785.33,"body":"How we go about solving those problems."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":785.91,"endTime":787.054,"body":"No, nothing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":787.182,"endTime":787.89,"body":"Blank,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":788.39,"endTime":790.21,"body":"blank, blank slate."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":790.55,"endTime":793.182,"body":"What about goals?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":790.55,"endTime":793.182,"body":"When you reach the end of the first book, did"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":793.206,"endTime":796.734,"body":"you, like, know what your characters were"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":793.206,"endTime":796.734,"body":"going to, like, want be after as soon as the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":796.742,"endTime":797.85,"body":"second one started?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":798.87,"endTime":800.334,"body":"Goals. Big picture."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":800.382,"endTime":801.054,"body":"External goals."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":801.102,"endTime":801.454,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":801.502,"endTime":803.582,"body":"Internal goals and internal obstacles."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":803.646,"endTime":804.25,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":804.63,"endTime":808.244,"body":"So, like, for example, in the first book,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":804.63,"endTime":808.244,"body":"Leona."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":808.292,"endTime":809.876,"body":"I'll just use it as details."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":809.908,"endTime":812.24,"body":"Leona discovers that there's a problem with."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":812.62,"endTime":815.812,"body":"My books are Mafia romance, which deal with"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":812.62,"endTime":815.812,"body":"the criminal underworld."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":815.876,"endTime":818.26,"body":"So I'm talking about criminal things right"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":815.876,"endTime":818.26,"body":"now."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":818.38,"endTime":819.22,"body":"So the first."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":819.34,"endTime":821.108,"body":"The first thing she uncovers is that there's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":821.124,"endTime":825.764,"body":"all sorts of problems with, like, the drug"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":821.124,"endTime":825.764,"body":"trade, like selling of cocaine and heroin,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":825.812,"endTime":826.5,"body":"whatever."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":826.66,"endTime":832.868,"body":"So the second book, the external goal is,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":826.66,"endTime":832.868,"body":"like, fight the people who are selling the bad"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":832.924,"endTime":833.542,"body":"drugs."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":833.676,"endTime":834.162,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":834.266,"endTime":837.186,"body":"Not to, like, eradicate the drugs, but so she"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":834.266,"endTime":837.186,"body":"could sell drugs."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":837.218,"endTime":838.162,"body":"I want to be clear."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":838.266,"endTime":839.59,"body":"She is a criminal."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":840.65,"endTime":844.882,"body":"So, like, we knew that the enemy are the South"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":840.65,"endTime":844.882,"body":"Americans."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":844.946,"endTime":848.514,"body":"Like, that's the enemy, because we knew that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":844.946,"endTime":848.514,"body":"they were the problem in the first book."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":848.602,"endTime":850.178,"body":"So external goals, she's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":850.274,"endTime":851.65,"body":"She's still trying to do that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":851.69,"endTime":853.794,"body":"She's trying to fix the problems that her dad"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":853.842,"endTime":854.578,"body":"created."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":854.754,"endTime":856.882,"body":"But internally, I didn't know what her"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":856.906,"endTime":861.696,"body":"internal goal was, and I didn't know what her"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":856.906,"endTime":861.696,"body":"internal obstacle was because she had a growth"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":861.768,"endTime":863.36,"body":"arc in the first book."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":863.48,"endTime":868.032,"body":"She overcame her need for revenge in the first"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":863.48,"endTime":868.032,"body":"book."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":868.216,"endTime":872.66,"body":"So in the second book, I really had to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":868.216,"endTime":872.66,"body":"discover, well, if she doesn't want revenge,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":873.32,"endTime":880.016,"body":"what's her internal struggle about?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":873.32,"endTime":880.016,"body":"And it ended up being about proving herself"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":880.128,"endTime":888.048,"body":"that she deserves to be a criminal mastermind,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":880.128,"endTime":888.048,"body":"that she deserves to be the queen."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":888.144,"endTime":892.356,"body":"She deserves to be taken seriously and that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":892.428,"endTime":894.32,"body":"At what point did you figure that out?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":895.18,"endTime":896.58,"body":"After the first draft?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":896.74,"endTime":897.364,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":897.492,"endTime":899.364,"body":"Yeah. I mean, I wrote because I feel."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":899.372,"endTime":901.732,"body":"Like it was there parts."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":901.796,"endTime":902.74,"body":"I mean, parts of it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":902.78,"endTime":906.068,"body":"I was like, I. You know, like, we know we're"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":906.084,"endTime":910.772,"body":"looking for flaws, so I'm exploring what are"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":906.084,"endTime":910.772,"body":"the little flaws, you know, Like, I know that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":910.796,"endTime":913.572,"body":"she needed them, but I don't think it fully."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":913.636,"endTime":914.916,"body":"It didn't take full."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":915.068,"endTime":916.948,"body":"You know, Only Fools Russian is about making"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":917.004,"endTime":917.682,"body":"mistakes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":917.836,"endTime":918.342,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":918.406,"endTime":923.894,"body":"And, like, I didn't realize it was"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":918.406,"endTime":923.894,"body":"about everybody's mistakes until after I had"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":923.902,"endTime":925.05,"body":"written the first Draft,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":925.39,"endTime":928.918,"body":"but, like, her need to prove herself was"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":925.39,"endTime":928.918,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":929.054,"endTime":929.542,"body":"Her."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":929.646,"endTime":932.726,"body":"Her feeling like she's inadequate is there"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":932.878,"endTime":936.61,"body":"because coming off the first book, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":937.31,"endTime":940.73,"body":"she is a 21 year old princess."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":941.15,"endTime":941.75,"body":"What."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":941.87,"endTime":944.826,"body":"How does she think she deserves to be"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":941.87,"endTime":944.826,"body":"in this arena?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":944.998,"endTime":946.802,"body":"You know?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":944.998,"endTime":946.802,"body":"So, like, that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":946.986,"endTime":950.61,"body":"That wasn't a logical jump to be, like, what I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":946.986,"endTime":950.61,"body":"was."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":950.65,"endTime":955.922,"body":"I asked myself a lot of questions, like, what"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":950.65,"endTime":955.922,"body":"would I feel like if I was her age, if I had"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":955.946,"endTime":957.042,"body":"no experience doing this,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":957.066,"endTime":959.25,"body":"and then all of a sudden I was trying to be in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":957.066,"endTime":959.25,"body":"charge."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":959.41,"endTime":960.162,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":960.306,"endTime":962.914,"body":"Why would I think that I was capable"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":960.306,"endTime":962.914,"body":"of that?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":963.082,"endTime":963.426,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":963.458,"endTime":963.89,"body":"And what would."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":963.93,"endTime":965.922,"body":"What would prove to me that I was?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":966.106,"endTime":971.122,"body":"Or, you know, what inherent qualities would I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":966.106,"endTime":971.122,"body":"already have that would make me capable of it"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":971.146,"endTime":973.766,"body":"to begin with?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":971.146,"endTime":973.766,"body":"And, like, that's really what her growths are."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":973.898,"endTime":977.406,"body":"Was. There was no need for her to prove"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":973.898,"endTime":977.406,"body":"herself to begin with because she's badass."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":977.438,"endTime":979.29,"body":"So, like, period, we're done."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":980.23,"endTime":980.542,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":980.566,"endTime":986.478,"body":"Yeah, I feel like I. I took a lot of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":980.566,"endTime":986.478,"body":"those questions on the fly."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":986.654,"endTime":988.11,"body":"Mm. That makes sense."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":988.19,"endTime":988.85,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":989.27,"endTime":993.21,"body":"So then the plot of book three, like, there's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":989.27,"endTime":993.21,"body":"a cliffy at the end of book two,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":993.75,"endTime":998.494,"body":"and then now we're in book three, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":993.75,"endTime":998.494,"body":"still drafting it, so I'm like, I don't quite"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":998.542,"endTime":999.31,"body":"know exactly."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":999.39,"endTime":1001.694,"body":"I have an idea of what her internal obstacle"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1001.742,"endTime":1002.25,"body":"is."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1002.39,"endTime":1002.978,"body":"Mm."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1003.074,"endTime":1006.578,"body":"But it's not there yet, you know?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1006.714,"endTime":1008.21,"body":"Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1008.29,"endTime":1011.074,"body":"It takes drafts, as you know, to get"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1008.29,"endTime":1011.074,"body":"to them."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1011.162,"endTime":1013.39,"body":"It takes a while to figure him out."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1013.77,"endTime":1015.57,"body":"Yeah. But I did know."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1015.69,"endTime":1017.186,"body":"I knew what I was aiming for."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1017.258,"endTime":1020.69,"body":"For, like, there's a problem she has to face,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1017.258,"endTime":1020.69,"body":"so her goals are gonna be about that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1020.81,"endTime":1024.066,"body":"And, like, having that external"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1020.81,"endTime":1024.066,"body":"clarity, I think, is."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1024.138,"endTime":1027.81,"body":"It's something, you know, if you have clarity"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1024.138,"endTime":1027.81,"body":"in one or the other ends."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1027.89,"endTime":1029.95,"body":"I feel like that was my challenge is like,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1030.55,"endTime":1034.222,"body":"at the end of book, at the end of behind the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1030.55,"endTime":1034.222,"body":"Crimson Curtain, I blew everything up."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1034.406,"endTime":1037.97,"body":"And, like, the villain takes power, right?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1034.406,"endTime":1037.97,"body":"And I was like, okay,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1038.47,"endTime":1042.382,"body":"I have this con artist main character who's"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1038.47,"endTime":1042.382,"body":"pretty selfish."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1042.446,"endTime":1044.75,"body":"It's like, okay, is she gonna just go, like,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1042.446,"endTime":1044.75,"body":"build her own life?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1044.79,"endTime":1046.27,"body":"Is she gonna try to take this guy down?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1046.31,"endTime":1048.35,"body":"Does she want revenge?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1046.31,"endTime":1048.35,"body":"Is she like, what is."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1048.39,"endTime":1049.502,"body":"Does she want freedom?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1048.39,"endTime":1049.502,"body":"Like, what?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1049.526,"endTime":1055.41,"body":"I didn't even know where I wanted to take her,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1049.526,"endTime":1055.41,"body":"which gave me, like, so many different options"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1055.92,"endTime":1058.18,"body":"for what the external plot could be."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1059.36,"endTime":1063.448,"body":"And I finally just sort of landed on an"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1059.36,"endTime":1063.448,"body":"external plot that didn't quite feel right"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1063.504,"endTime":1066.34,"body":"because I was like, I don't know if she would"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1063.504,"endTime":1066.34,"body":"make the jump to,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1066.72,"endTime":1069.66,"body":"you know, assassination so fast,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1070.24,"endTime":1072.7,"body":"because the plot becomes an assassination"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1070.24,"endTime":1072.7,"body":"plot."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1073.76,"endTime":1074.696,"body":"But it was sexy."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1074.728,"endTime":1077.288,"body":"And I was like, well, you know, it's a sexy"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1077.304,"endTime":1077.688,"body":"plot."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1077.784,"endTime":1079.688,"body":"So she ended up having, like, in my first"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1079.744,"endTime":1081.718,"body":"drafts, like, all these different reasons."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1081.904,"endTime":1084.362,"body":"Um, and it was kind of muddled, I feel like."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1084.466,"endTime":1088.826,"body":"And it wasn't until, you know, the second and"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1084.466,"endTime":1088.826,"body":"third drafts that I really feel like I figured"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1088.858,"endTime":1091.514,"body":"out exactly why she was after that goal."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1091.642,"endTime":1092.666,"body":"Um, it takes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1092.698,"endTime":1093.258,"body":"It takes place."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1093.314,"endTime":1094.986,"body":"It takes time and iteration."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1095.178,"endTime":1100.378,"body":"Yeah. But it does sound like if you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1095.178,"endTime":1100.378,"body":"were to do it again, you would have given"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1100.434,"endTime":1100.794,"body":"your."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1100.882,"endTime":1102.362,"body":"Not giving yourself more options, but you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1102.386,"endTime":1107.322,"body":"would have had an idea in mind of, like, this"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1102.386,"endTime":1107.322,"body":"is the arc she might need to have, or this is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1107.346,"endTime":1107.566,"body":"the."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1107.618,"endTime":1109.638,"body":"The plot that she's gonna go on."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1109.694,"endTime":1110.054,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1110.102,"endTime":1114.582,"body":"Even if you don't didn't have all the,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1110.102,"endTime":1114.582,"body":"you know, a fully plot edit book, you still"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1114.606,"endTime":1119.062,"body":"would have ended in a different state."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1119.246,"endTime":1121.19,"body":"Yeah, I feel like if I was to."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1121.31,"endTime":1122.806,"body":"To do another series, which I'm."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1122.838,"endTime":1127.206,"body":"I'm sure I will, I would love to have an idea"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1122.838,"endTime":1127.206,"body":"of just, like, what is the internal goal?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1127.238,"endTime":1130.13,"body":"Like, what does the arc just, like, really"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1127.238,"endTime":1130.13,"body":"generally look like?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1130.75,"endTime":1134.342,"body":"And then, like, what's the big plot problem?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1130.75,"endTime":1134.342,"body":"Because I think that was where, like, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1134.366,"endTime":1136.086,"body":"a. I'm not a plot forward kind of person."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1136.158,"endTime":1137.75,"body":"And so there were just, like, so many things"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1137.79,"endTime":1138.694,"body":"that could have happened."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1138.742,"endTime":1142.482,"body":"You was in chaos, and it just was overwhelming"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1138.742,"endTime":1142.482,"body":"to me."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1142.506,"endTime":1146.43,"body":"Like, I didn't have something to, like, latch"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1142.506,"endTime":1146.43,"body":"on to to drive the story forward."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1147.85,"endTime":1153.042,"body":"And so, yeah, I would probably sketch, you"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1147.85,"endTime":1153.042,"body":"know, even just a one pager of, like, this is"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1153.066,"endTime":1156.402,"body":"just generally where I think I'm gonna go with"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1153.066,"endTime":1156.402,"body":"this, just so I have that direction, because"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1156.426,"endTime":1156.642,"body":"it was."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1156.666,"endTime":1160.27,"body":"I mean, it was really a black hole for me."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1161.93,"endTime":1167.842,"body":"So then once you started, right, like, once"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1161.93,"endTime":1167.842,"body":"you start a new story, like, how do you pull"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1167.906,"endTime":1168.51,"body":"through,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1170.09,"endTime":1173.218,"body":"like, threads and stuff?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1170.09,"endTime":1173.218,"body":"Like, are you pulling through all the same"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1173.274,"endTime":1175.41,"body":"threads?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1173.274,"endTime":1175.41,"body":"Are you dropping some threads, pulling others"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1175.45,"endTime":1176.37,"body":"forward?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1175.45,"endTime":1176.37,"body":"Like, how are."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1176.41,"endTime":1178.242,"body":"Do you give any conscious thought to that at"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1176.41,"endTime":1178.242,"body":"all?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1178.266,"endTime":1179.55,"body":"Or are you just kind of like."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1180.33,"endTime":1182.91,"body":"No, I give a lot of conscious thought"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1180.33,"endTime":1182.91,"body":"to it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1186.17,"endTime":1188.27,"body":"It's a lot to hold at one time,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1188.65,"endTime":1192.892,"body":"so it's not something that I am planning to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1188.65,"endTime":1192.892,"body":"have."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1192.916,"endTime":1195.88,"body":"All those threads make sense, but, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1196.74,"endTime":1202.156,"body":"a lot of the ideas that I have, when I have"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1196.74,"endTime":1202.156,"body":"them, I'm thinking about how is this gonna"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1202.188,"endTime":1203.4,"body":"continue showing up."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1204.5,"endTime":1208.316,"body":"But I also reread books one and two a lot."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1208.468,"endTime":1211.756,"body":"I mean, I'm, like, skimming books one and two"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1211.828,"endTime":1215.24,"body":"kind of frequently now that I'm drafting to be"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1211.828,"endTime":1215.24,"body":"like, what did I say here?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1215.86,"endTime":1217.132,"body":"You know, what did I bring up."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1217.156,"endTime":1218.94,"body":"I know I had an idea for a thread."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1219.02,"endTime":1220.52,"body":"How can I not forget it?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1221.27,"endTime":1229.71,"body":"And I also know that since we're dealing with"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1221.27,"endTime":1229.71,"body":"a problem that's going to continue to get"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1229.75,"endTime":1235.15,"body":"bigger until the group has to fix it in the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1229.75,"endTime":1235.15,"body":"fourth book, I have to start laying that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1235.19,"endTime":1236.05,"body":"groundwork,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1236.47,"endTime":1237.678,"body":"and I did in book two."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1237.734,"endTime":1239.342,"body":"So I was conscious of that being like, well,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1239.366,"endTime":1243.182,"body":"book four has to solve this problem, so I have"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1239.366,"endTime":1243.182,"body":"to make it a problem already."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1243.286,"endTime":1245.956,"body":"So I, like, started to pepper in some."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1245.998,"endTime":1246.648,"body":"Some of those things."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1246.704,"endTime":1251.656,"body":"And now in book three, I'm having to build"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1246.704,"endTime":1251.656,"body":"these plot threads that will not be relevant"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1251.768,"endTime":1253.46,"body":"until the fourth book."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1253.92,"endTime":1257.832,"body":"But otherwise, if I don't do that, the plot's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1253.92,"endTime":1257.832,"body":"gonna come out of nowhere."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1257.896,"endTime":1260.232,"body":"You know, you're gonna be like, oh, why is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1257.896,"endTime":1260.232,"body":"this happening?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1260.296,"endTime":1261.192,"body":"It's just a random thing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1261.216,"endTime":1262.472,"body":"It's like, well, no, it's not a random thing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1262.496,"endTime":1264.66,"body":"I kind of decided on that a long time ago."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1265.76,"endTime":1270.168,"body":"But again, I. I don't have any idea how those"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1265.76,"endTime":1270.168,"body":"plot threads are gonna come back up."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1270.224,"endTime":1271.016,"body":"Just that they're."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1271.128,"endTime":1273.302,"body":"I'm chewing on em in my head and, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1273.326,"endTime":1275.33,"body":"they're gonna be important again."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1275.63,"endTime":1277.046,"body":"Yeah, that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1277.158,"endTime":1277.93,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1278.51,"endTime":1284.45,"body":"Um, and I do feel like I thought a. I also"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1278.51,"endTime":1284.45,"body":"have, like six."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1285.23,"endTime":1286.65,"body":"Six characters."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1287.31,"endTime":1296.742,"body":"And I think the biggest challenge is giving"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1287.31,"endTime":1296.742,"body":"them all actionable pursuit of goals that have"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1296.766,"endTime":1299.318,"body":"consequences that, like, actually result in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1296.766,"endTime":1299.318,"body":"things."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1299.374,"endTime":1304.236,"body":"Because in the first book, they weren't really"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1299.374,"endTime":1304.236,"body":"all together until the end."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1304.388,"endTime":1305.2,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1305.78,"endTime":1306.668,"body":"And so they."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1306.724,"endTime":1308.604,"body":"They kind of could have their own separate"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1308.652,"endTime":1312.268,"body":"goals that drove them towards each other."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1312.404,"endTime":1314.732,"body":"But, like, let's say that in the second and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1314.756,"endTime":1319.84,"body":"third book, you know, I have two characters,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1314.756,"endTime":1319.84,"body":"main characters with conflicting goals."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1320.82,"endTime":1321.564,"body":"Something."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1321.732,"endTime":1323.852,"body":"Something's gotta come of that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1323.876,"endTime":1327.1,"body":"like, we've gotta resolve it somehow or"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1323.876,"endTime":1327.1,"body":"there's gotta be consequences."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1327.18,"endTime":1337.604,"body":"So I think, like, the challenge that comes"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1327.18,"endTime":1337.604,"body":"from there is making sure that each person"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1337.692,"endTime":1343.0,"body":"feels like they have a degree of agency and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1337.692,"endTime":1343.0,"body":"that they're affecting the greater plot,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1343.5,"endTime":1345.124,"body":"even if it's not large."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1345.212,"endTime":1346.16,"body":"Because, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1346.62,"endTime":1351.508,"body":"in the second book, some of my guys took a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1346.62,"endTime":1351.508,"body":"little of a backseat on purpose."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1351.604,"endTime":1355.77,"body":"And then in the third book, the guys that were"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1351.604,"endTime":1355.77,"body":"in the backseat are now going to the front"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1355.81,"endTime":1356.218,"body":"seat."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1356.314,"endTime":1360.042,"body":"But then that means some of the guys are"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1356.314,"endTime":1360.042,"body":"moving to the background because now we have"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1360.066,"endTime":1362.31,"body":"to experience their arcs of change."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1363.97,"endTime":1365.242,"body":"So that's tricky."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1365.386,"endTime":1368.07,"body":"I don't feel like that's a fun part of this."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1368.45,"endTime":1371.77,"body":"That's. That was, I think, the hardest"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1368.45,"endTime":1371.77,"body":"because, like, mine, my."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1371.81,"endTime":1375.27,"body":"I had subplots, but I don't have like, as"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1371.81,"endTime":1375.27,"body":"many, you know,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1375.65,"endTime":1380.41,"body":"moving pieces in terms of like, like the Mafia"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1375.65,"endTime":1380.41,"body":"underground, moving parts."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1380.57,"endTime":1384.888,"body":"And I also don't have six POVs and like all"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1380.57,"endTime":1384.888,"body":"those, you know, relationships to."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1384.944,"endTime":1385.7,"body":"To manage."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1386.56,"endTime":1390.632,"body":"But I do have a ton of characters in behind"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1386.56,"endTime":1390.632,"body":"the Crimson Curtain Fear and is part of a"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1390.656,"endTime":1393.56,"body":"theater troupe that has a lot of people in it,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1390.656,"endTime":1393.56,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1393.6,"endTime":1397.944,"body":"And then like, it's a very political book, so"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1393.6,"endTime":1397.944,"body":"there's a lot of like political figures and"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1397.952,"endTime":1399.176,"body":"then there's a backstory timeline,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1399.208,"endTime":1400.712,"body":"so there's a lot of characters there."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1400.896,"endTime":1404.984,"body":"And I had to figure out like, who is going to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1404.992,"endTime":1407.4,"body":"be because I didn't want it to feel one note,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1404.992,"endTime":1407.4,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1407.44,"endTime":1411.45,"body":"So I had to bring some people forward, push"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1407.44,"endTime":1411.45,"body":"some people back, and I wanted to have some"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1411.49,"endTime":1414.75,"body":"fresh new faces to make the book interesting."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1416.53,"endTime":1422.202,"body":"And so that was a lot of the work that I did"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1416.53,"endTime":1422.202,"body":"to try to figure out kind of what subplots I"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1422.226,"endTime":1426.25,"body":"wanted to include, was figuring out, okay,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1422.226,"endTime":1426.25,"body":"which characters am I gonna like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1426.29,"endTime":1429.994,"body":"get rid of in a sense, like send away or like,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1426.29,"endTime":1429.994,"body":"put off page."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1430.042,"endTime":1431.658,"body":"Because, like, I can't bring every."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1431.714,"endTime":1433.578,"body":"I can't develop everybody as much as I wanted"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1433.594,"endTime":1433.77,"body":"to."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1433.81,"endTime":1435.706,"body":"I couldn't take every theater troupe member"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1435.778,"endTime":1439.066,"body":"and give them like, you know, their day in the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1435.778,"endTime":1439.066,"body":"sun."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1439.138,"endTime":1443.546,"body":"Unfortunately, I had to, like, I had to move"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1439.138,"endTime":1443.546,"body":"some of them backwards, which really sucked"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1443.578,"endTime":1447.898,"body":"and was really hard because, like, I had"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1443.578,"endTime":1447.898,"body":"histories and stories for all these people,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1447.954,"endTime":1448.554,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1448.722,"endTime":1452.346,"body":"So I had to move some people back and then,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1448.722,"endTime":1452.346,"body":"and then I had to pick a couple characters"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1452.378,"endTime":1454.09,"body":"that I really wanted to bring forward a lot."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1454.13,"endTime":1456.122,"body":"So like, Bregan's mother is one of those"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1456.146,"endTime":1459.498,"body":"people where it's like, she's mentioned in"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1456.146,"endTime":1459.498,"body":"book one, we don't really know what happened"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1459.514,"endTime":1459.722,"body":"to her."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1459.746,"endTime":1460.842,"body":"And I was like, I want to bring her back."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1460.866,"endTime":1461.978,"body":"I want him to deal with that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1462.034,"endTime":1466.474,"body":"And so I actually ended up writing a lot of"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1462.034,"endTime":1466.474,"body":"backstory for those major, like her and the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1466.482,"endTime":1472.106,"body":"President, like some major characters that I"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1466.482,"endTime":1472.106,"body":"wanted to bring forward and add."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1472.178,"endTime":1481.594,"body":"So I added really two big characters to book"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1472.178,"endTime":1481.594,"body":"two that are totally new and I had to kind of"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1481.682,"endTime":1482.41,"body":"graph them in."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1482.45,"endTime":1484.282,"body":"So again, like rereading book one, I had to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1484.306,"endTime":1488.97,"body":"make decisions in book one that I, especially"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1484.306,"endTime":1488.97,"body":"in Fear and Past timeline that I was like, I"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1489.01,"endTime":1490.772,"body":"don't know if this is ever going to make"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1489.01,"endTime":1490.772,"body":"sense."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1490.866,"endTime":1494.62,"body":"But now I'm locked into these rules about what"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1490.866,"endTime":1494.62,"body":"happened when and who was where."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1494.92,"endTime":1496.048,"body":"So it was tricky."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1496.144,"endTime":1496.9,"body":"Um,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1497.32,"endTime":1501.008,"body":"but yeah, I don't know."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1501.064,"endTime":1501.664,"body":"It's tricky."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1501.712,"endTime":1502.464,"body":"It's tricky, guys."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1502.512,"endTime":1503.248,"body":"It's hard."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1503.384,"endTime":1505.14,"body":"I think though that there's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1506.12,"endTime":1512.064,"body":"I feel like I picked up a couple tricks of, of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1506.12,"endTime":1512.064,"body":"telling these long form stories that, like."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1512.152,"endTime":1518.148,"body":"So I'll seed information that, like, seems"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1512.152,"endTime":1518.148,"body":"relevant at the time, but in my head, I'm"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1518.164,"endTime":1521.972,"body":"like, I'm going to develop that further if it"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1518.164,"endTime":1521.972,"body":"comes back."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1522.156,"endTime":1523.844,"body":"So, like, it makes sense in the."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1523.932,"endTime":1524.132,"body":"Like."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1524.156,"endTime":1526.02,"body":"For example, there's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1526.18,"endTime":1529.604,"body":"There's five Mafia dons in the five families,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1529.732,"endTime":1532.692,"body":"and one of them's name is Don Rossi."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1532.836,"endTime":1535.428,"body":"And I've done nothing with him, but I've"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1535.444,"endTime":1539.188,"body":"always planned that he's going to be an ally"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1535.444,"endTime":1539.188,"body":"later."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1539.324,"endTime":1543.844,"body":"So, like, in the first couple books, I've,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1539.324,"endTime":1543.844,"body":"like, mentioned details about him."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1544.012,"endTime":1544.404,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1544.452,"endTime":1548.88,"body":"That I just have made up details about"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1544.452,"endTime":1548.88,"body":"him that, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1549.26,"endTime":1556.244,"body":"had relevance in that moment, but knew that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1549.26,"endTime":1556.244,"body":"eventually I'm gonna call back on John Rossi"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1556.292,"endTime":1558.916,"body":"and, like, he's gonna be a bigger deal."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1558.988,"endTime":1559.46,"body":"So there were."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1559.5,"endTime":1561.044,"body":"There were a couple ideas where I."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1561.052,"endTime":1562.852,"body":"Did stuff like that of like, gotcha."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1562.916,"endTime":1566.388,"body":"If I want to do something with this,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1562.916,"endTime":1566.388,"body":"it exists."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1566.484,"endTime":1568.58,"body":"If I don't, nobody cares."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1568.66,"endTime":1569.908,"body":"It was relevant at the time."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1569.964,"endTime":1570.58,"body":"We moved on."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1570.62,"endTime":1571.172,"body":"That's smart."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1571.236,"endTime":1572.154,"body":"That's really smart."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1572.252,"endTime":1574.302,"body":"I think I. I think with the threads that I was"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1574.326,"endTime":1579.118,"body":"working with, I did a lot of that knowing"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1574.326,"endTime":1579.118,"body":"that, like, I can insert a little detail here,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1579.254,"endTime":1582.878,"body":"which I could make bigger later if I want to."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1582.934,"endTime":1586.51,"body":"And if I don't want to, if there's not a place"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1582.934,"endTime":1586.51,"body":"for it, then I don't have to."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1586.63,"endTime":1591.262,"body":"So, like, this is another one where I've"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1586.63,"endTime":1591.262,"body":"mentioned a couple times that one of my"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1591.286,"endTime":1595.17,"body":"characters, Ryuji, really wants to kill his"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1591.286,"endTime":1595.17,"body":"old boss."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1595.67,"endTime":1599.406,"body":"Like, if I want to go to Japan and kill that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1595.67,"endTime":1599.406,"body":"guy, great."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1599.558,"endTime":1601.534,"body":"But if I don't, no one's gonna care."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1601.622,"endTime":1604.43,"body":"So, like, I have that zone of, like, if we"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1604.47,"endTime":1608.702,"body":"ever need to involve the Yakuza again."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1608.886,"endTime":1609.342,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1609.406,"endTime":1611.262,"body":"Then I have the door."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1611.406,"endTime":1611.726,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1611.758,"endTime":1615.61,"body":"But I don't have to walk through that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1611.758,"endTime":1615.61,"body":"door because ultimately it doesn't matter."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1615.99,"endTime":1616.798,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1616.974,"endTime":1623.246,"body":"So I think I. I thought a lot about"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1616.974,"endTime":1623.246,"body":"how I could give myself opportunities to use"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1623.318,"endTime":1628.018,"body":"information in that way and then forget about"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1623.318,"endTime":1628.018,"body":"it if I didn't need it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1628.154,"endTime":1629.65,"body":"Yeah. I love it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1629.77,"endTime":1630.47,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1631.37,"endTime":1634.834,"body":"Cool. Well, hopefully that was helpful"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1631.37,"endTime":1634.834,"body":"for anybody thinking about sequels."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1634.882,"endTime":1636.226,"body":"Like, I think."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1636.378,"endTime":1636.738,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1636.794,"endTime":1640.13,"body":"Ultimately, as always, it comes down to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1636.794,"endTime":1640.13,"body":"there's no right way to do it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1640.17,"endTime":1645.442,"body":"But hopefully by listening to our different"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1640.17,"endTime":1645.442,"body":"approaches, you know, some ideas might come to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1645.466,"endTime":1646.03,"body":"you."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1647.13,"endTime":1648.07,"body":"They're tricky."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1648.41,"endTime":1649.202,"body":"They're tricky."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1649.266,"endTime":1649.874,"body":"They're tricky."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1649.922,"endTime":1652.31,"body":"I think being flexible, having trust,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1652.71,"endTime":1653.694,"body":"they can be done."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1653.782,"endTime":1654.35,"body":"They could be."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1654.39,"endTime":1655.022,"body":"Yeah, for sure."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1655.046,"endTime":1655.806,"body":"They could be done."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1655.878,"endTime":1657.486,"body":"It's never going to be perfect."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1657.678,"endTime":1660.45,"body":"Yeah, yeah, it's never going to be perfect."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1660.87,"endTime":1662.174,"body":"But we do have."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1662.262,"endTime":1663.89,"body":"In tenacious writing,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1664.23,"endTime":1669.37,"body":"we have a two hour class on planning series,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1670.39,"endTime":1677.962,"body":"which was really helpful for me to give myself"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1670.39,"endTime":1677.962,"body":"boundaries, I guess."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1678.126,"endTime":1681.91,"body":"You know, the planning of arcs, which I did a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1678.126,"endTime":1681.91,"body":"little of, you know, I dabbled."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1683.53,"endTime":1686.59,"body":"The planning of plot, you know, dabble in."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1687.13,"endTime":1691.426,"body":"So if you're like, oh, my God, how am I ever"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1687.13,"endTime":1691.426,"body":"going to do this?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1691.578,"endTime":1694.79,"body":"We've got classes on it and it's going to be"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1691.578,"endTime":1694.79,"body":"okay."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1695.61,"endTime":1697.25,"body":"And we're here for moral support."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1697.37,"endTime":1698.354,"body":"Yes, exactly."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1698.402,"endTime":1699.67,"body":"Because it's tricky."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1700.17,"endTime":1700.95,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1701.61,"endTime":1705.154,"body":"If you want to build a successful,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1701.61,"endTime":1705.154,"body":"fulfilling and sustainable writing life that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1705.162,"endTime":1707.496,"body":"works for you, you've got to get on our email"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1705.162,"endTime":1707.496,"body":"list."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1707.618,"endTime":1710.524,"body":"Sign up now for our free email course,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1707.618,"endTime":1710.524,"body":"the Magic of Character Arcs."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1710.572,"endTime":1713.884,"body":"After seven days of email magic, you'll have"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1710.572,"endTime":1713.884,"body":"the power to keep your readers flipping pages"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1713.932,"endTime":1714.78,"body":"all through the night."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1714.9,"endTime":1715.964,"body":"Link in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1716.012,"endTime":1717.036,"body":"We'll see you there."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1717.188,"endTime":1717.5,"body":"Bye."}]}