{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":13.76,"endTime":14.336,"body":"Hey, writers."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":14.344,"endTime":16.104,"body":"Welcome back to Story Magic, the podcast that"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":16.112,"endTime":18.04,"body":"will help you write a book you're damn proud"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":16.112,"endTime":18.04,"body":"of."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":18.16,"endTime":19.096,"body":"I'm Rachel."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":19.208,"endTime":20.408,"body":"And I'm Emily."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":20.584,"endTime":23.464,"body":"And today we are talking about pen"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":20.584,"endTime":23.464,"body":"names."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":23.592,"endTime":24.94,"body":"Pen names."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":26.25,"endTime":30.818,"body":"So this one, I feel like, is a pretty"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":26.25,"endTime":30.818,"body":"common question, but the reason that I wanted"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":30.834,"endTime":34.69,"body":"to talk about or that we wanted to talk about"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":30.834,"endTime":34.69,"body":"it on the podcast today is because we got this"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":34.73,"endTime":37.47,"body":"question in our tenacious writing community,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":38.17,"endTime":44.626,"body":"every week, our members can post questions for"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":38.17,"endTime":44.626,"body":"Emily and I to answer in Slack."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":44.738,"endTime":46.114,"body":"So this is one of them."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":46.282,"endTime":48.402,"body":"And it's such a great question because you and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":48.426,"endTime":51.394,"body":"I both, like, use a pen name."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":51.482,"endTime":53.39,"body":"Have gone through this thought process,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":54.61,"endTime":59.69,"body":"and I. Yeah, I just feel like it's good to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":54.61,"endTime":59.69,"body":"explore because there's so many questions"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":59.85,"endTime":60.538,"body":"about it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":60.594,"endTime":61.354,"body":"Do's don'ts."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":61.402,"endTime":62.57,"body":"Why?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":61.402,"endTime":62.57,"body":"Why not?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":62.61,"endTime":64.99,"body":"Yes. Yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":65.33,"endTime":65.754,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":65.802,"endTime":66.458,"body":"I feel like."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":66.514,"endTime":68.31,"body":"Okay, so first off, a pen name."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":68.85,"endTime":73.99,"body":"Maybe it was a."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":74.37,"endTime":76.79,"body":"It is the name that goes on your book."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":78.21,"endTime":79.56,"body":"That's what we're talking about."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":79.69,"endTime":82.492,"body":"How. What name you use as an author on your"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":82.516,"endTime":82.796,"body":"books."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":82.828,"endTime":84.44,"body":"And some people have many of them,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":84.98,"endTime":86.316,"body":"some people have several."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":86.468,"endTime":87.996,"body":"Some people just use their name."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":88.148,"endTime":90.716,"body":"There's no right or wrong way to do this."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":90.788,"endTime":91.72,"body":"And I think."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":92.18,"endTime":95.64,"body":"I think oftentimes people get real anxious"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":92.18,"endTime":95.64,"body":"about this,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":96.5,"endTime":99.036,"body":"and I think that anxiety can come from a lot"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":96.5,"endTime":99.036,"body":"of different places."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":99.068,"endTime":101.756,"body":"You know, choosing a pen name makes it feel"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":99.068,"endTime":101.756,"body":"real."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":101.908,"endTime":103.68,"body":"It feels so permanent."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":105.23,"endTime":108.246,"body":"It feels like you're choosing your identity."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":108.358,"endTime":108.87,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":108.91,"endTime":111.21,"body":"For me, it was really anxiety inducing."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":111.63,"endTime":114.006,"body":"We could tell our personal stories about how"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":111.63,"endTime":114.006,"body":"we came up with ours."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":114.038,"endTime":116.006,"body":"I don't know if you have a story, but."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":116.158,"endTime":117.014,"body":"Yeah, I do."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":117.102,"endTime":119.062,"body":"Yeah, but I think we should, because, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":119.086,"endTime":119.65,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":119.95,"endTime":123.19,"body":"There are reasons that we use them and there"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":123.23,"endTime":127.814,"body":"are reasons why I. Like, at least for me, I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":123.23,"endTime":127.814,"body":"will have multiple."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":127.942,"endTime":128.678,"body":"You know."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":128.814,"endTime":130.731,"body":"Yeah, you go first."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":130.885,"endTime":132.219,"body":"Yeah. So I."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":133.879,"endTime":135.839,"body":"My pen name."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":135.879,"endTime":137.759,"body":"I'm trying to think exactly when it was my"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":137.799,"endTime":138.319,"body":"publi."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":138.399,"endTime":139.019,"body":"Pub."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":139.399,"endTime":140.015,"body":"Can't speak."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":140.047,"endTime":142.879,"body":"Publishers Marketplace, like, little"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":142.919,"endTime":149.391,"body":"announcement about my book went out with my"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":142.919,"endTime":149.391,"body":"full name, and I just, like, didn't think"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":149.415,"endTime":149.919,"body":"about it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":149.959,"endTime":152.847,"body":"I mean, I was postpartum by, like, a month."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":152.983,"endTime":154.575,"body":"Literally didn't think about it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":154.727,"endTime":155.579,"body":"And then."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":156.69,"endTime":158.55,"body":"And then I was filling out."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":158.85,"endTime":161.39,"body":"I was filling something out for my publisher"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":161.81,"endTime":165.69,"body":"and realized, like, oh, I have to, like,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":161.81,"endTime":165.69,"body":"choose my name."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":165.73,"endTime":168.01,"body":"I think maybe they asked me, like, what name"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":165.73,"endTime":168.01,"body":"are you going to use?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":168.05,"endTime":168.426,"body":"Or whatever."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":168.458,"endTime":169.594,"body":"Like, there was some kind of marketing"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":169.642,"endTime":174.026,"body":"question and I had, like, a mini panic attack"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":169.642,"endTime":174.026,"body":"because I was like, oh, my gosh."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":174.058,"endTime":175.146,"body":"I didn't give this any thought."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":175.218,"endTime":177.47,"body":"And I had, like, 24 hours to decide."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":177.81,"endTime":180.538,"body":"So I. My mom was visiting."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":180.634,"endTime":181.338,"body":"I had a six."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":181.394,"endTime":181.674,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":181.722,"endTime":183.088,"body":"So Bailey was six weeks old."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":183.194,"endTime":184.26,"body":"My mom was visiting."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":184.34,"endTime":185.252,"body":"I just saw my book."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":185.276,"endTime":186.82,"body":"I was, like, so stressed out, and I was like."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":186.86,"endTime":191.332,"body":"It felt like this, like, existential question"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":186.86,"endTime":191.332,"body":"of, what am I. What am I going to do?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":191.356,"endTime":193.876,"body":"Who am I going to be?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":191.356,"endTime":193.876,"body":"This is so funny."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":193.988,"endTime":195.156,"body":"You didn't know this?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":195.308,"endTime":196.42,"body":"No. Because you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":196.46,"endTime":199.956,"body":"You. Okay, I'm going to interrupt your"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":196.46,"endTime":199.956,"body":"story for a second, because when you shared"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":199.988,"endTime":204.228,"body":"pages with me of Undesired Thrones, you used"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":199.988,"endTime":204.228,"body":"EB Golden."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":204.404,"endTime":205.172,"body":"Did I?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":205.276,"endTime":205.988,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":206.164,"endTime":207.252,"body":"That's so funny."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":207.396,"endTime":210.436,"body":"So I just assumed that was always your"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":207.396,"endTime":210.436,"body":"plan was to."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":210.508,"endTime":215.904,"body":"No, I. We're going to talk about this, but"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":210.508,"endTime":215.904,"body":"Undesired Thrones was in a genre that, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":216.072,"endTime":218.24,"body":"made sense for you to use a pen name in."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":218.28,"endTime":218.864,"body":"But, like."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":218.952,"endTime":220.416,"body":"But I'd never heard of this."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":220.488,"endTime":222.128,"body":"Crisis of identity."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":222.224,"endTime":222.688,"body":"I know."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":222.744,"endTime":224.144,"body":"And then I, like, called my agent."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":224.192,"endTime":226.56,"body":"I was like, what do I do?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":224.192,"endTime":226.56,"body":"She was like."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":226.6,"endTime":227.68,"body":"She was so kind."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":227.8,"endTime":228.608,"body":"She was so kind."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":228.664,"endTime":229.54,"body":"My whole."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":230.6,"endTime":231.824,"body":"Thank you, Laura."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":231.952,"endTime":233.136,"body":"She was like, well."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":233.288,"endTime":235.712,"body":"Well, because she didn't agree with me."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":235.816,"endTime":238.08,"body":"So I. I was kind of going back and forth, and"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":238.12,"endTime":240.944,"body":"I don't think there's any right or wrong"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":238.12,"endTime":240.944,"body":"answer, but my options were, like, Emily"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":240.992,"endTime":242.584,"body":"golden, which is my name."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":242.672,"endTime":245.4,"body":"Yeah. But it also is, like, my name as a"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":242.672,"endTime":245.4,"body":"coach, right?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":245.44,"endTime":246.184,"body":"Like, yes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":246.312,"endTime":247.24,"body":"So it's kind of like my."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":247.28,"endTime":248.54,"body":"My coach identity."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":249.12,"endTime":251.06,"body":"It's also my real name."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":251.52,"endTime":252.5,"body":"There's that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":253.2,"endTime":258.28,"body":"So. So it was Emily Golden, Emily B. Golden,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":253.2,"endTime":258.28,"body":"or EB Golden."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":258.36,"endTime":258.744,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":258.792,"endTime":261.432,"body":"And I had always thought that EB golden would"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":261.456,"endTime":263.976,"body":"be my handle because."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":264.128,"endTime":266.152,"body":"Because Undesired Thrones was epic fantasy,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":266.216,"endTime":268.312,"body":"and it was, like, solid epic fantasy."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":268.376,"endTime":274.29,"body":"And I feel like that's a really common name"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":268.376,"endTime":274.29,"body":"for that type of genre versus."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":274.87,"endTime":275.422,"body":"What's that?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":275.446,"endTime":277.39,"body":"Okay, well, I want to come back to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":275.446,"endTime":277.39,"body":"that part."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":277.51,"endTime":279.79,"body":"Yeah. There's. Yes. Yes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":279.95,"endTime":280.878,"body":"There's reasons."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":280.974,"endTime":281.63,"body":"So then."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":281.75,"endTime":285.982,"body":"So then the argument I was making for using I"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":286.006,"endTime":288.382,"body":"was like, emily golden sounds like Emily"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":286.006,"endTime":288.382,"body":"Henry."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":288.446,"endTime":290.654,"body":"Like, it's too contemporary romance."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":290.702,"endTime":292.526,"body":"Like, in my brain, I was like, that's."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":292.558,"endTime":295.246,"body":"If I ever write contemporary romance, that's"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":292.558,"endTime":295.246,"body":"where I'm gonna go."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":295.318,"endTime":297.598,"body":"And then I was like, okay, well, I'm writing"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":295.318,"endTime":297.598,"body":"romance."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":297.694,"endTime":298.734,"body":"This is me at the time."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":298.822,"endTime":300.014,"body":"I know how I feel in the moment."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":300.062,"endTime":300.91,"body":"I know this is me."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":300.95,"endTime":303.578,"body":"Postpartum, been weeks, sleep deprived."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":303.754,"endTime":305.93,"body":"Like, my mom had been here living in."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":305.97,"endTime":309.018,"body":"Sleeping in the bed with me for 10 days, was"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":305.97,"endTime":309.018,"body":"losing my mind."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":309.154,"endTime":309.61,"body":"Love her."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":309.65,"endTime":312.442,"body":"She was so helpful, but it was like, I was"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":312.466,"endTime":315.722,"body":"just, like, in this, like, land of insanity."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":315.866,"endTime":320.73,"body":"And. And so then I was like, well, There's a"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":315.866,"endTime":320.73,"body":"lot of romantasy authors who have like their"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":320.77,"endTime":323.066,"body":"first name, their middle initial, and then"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":320.77,"endTime":323.066,"body":"their last names."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":323.098,"endTime":324.122,"body":"And then I was like, emily B."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":324.146,"endTime":325.21,"body":"Golden it is."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":325.33,"endTime":326.826,"body":"So anyway, I was talking to my agents."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":326.858,"endTime":327.45,"body":"He was super kind."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":327.49,"endTime":329.13,"body":"And then I was like, no, I really think I want"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":329.17,"endTime":329.818,"body":"E.B. golding."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":329.834,"endTime":331.674,"body":"Because I don't know that I always, like, I"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":331.682,"endTime":340.204,"body":"know I'm always going to want to write fantasy"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":331.682,"endTime":340.204,"body":"with like, there's always gonna be romance in"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":340.212,"endTime":340.508,"body":"my books."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":340.524,"endTime":341.564,"body":"Cause I'm always drawn to romance."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":341.612,"endTime":344.316,"body":"But I like romantasy, like always having happy"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":344.348,"endTime":347.596,"body":"endings is not something I necessarily like"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":344.348,"endTime":347.596,"body":"I'm gonna sign up for."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":347.668,"endTime":353.26,"body":"And I also feel like it was in line with the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":347.668,"endTime":353.26,"body":"authors that I wanted to comp, like V."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":353.3,"endTime":359.196,"body":"E Schwab and RF Kuang and like a bunch of, you"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":353.3,"endTime":359.196,"body":"know, like those types of folks that I wanted"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":359.228,"endTime":360.844,"body":"to put my book to be on shelves with."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":360.932,"endTime":363.452,"body":"So I was kind of thinking genre wise, and I do"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":363.476,"endTime":368.216,"body":"think it's really common, especially in"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":363.476,"endTime":368.216,"body":"romance epic fantasy space, to use your first"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":368.288,"endTime":370.38,"body":"two initials because it's."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":370.72,"endTime":372.136,"body":"There's no gender bias."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":372.248,"endTime":372.824,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":372.872,"endTime":373.5,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":374.08,"endTime":377.0,"body":"And so when I said that to my agent, she was"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":374.08,"endTime":377.0,"body":"like, I can see where you're coming from."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":377.04,"endTime":377.864,"body":"That makes a lot of sense."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":377.912,"endTime":378.792,"body":"And so we just kind of."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":378.816,"endTime":380.552,"body":"I kind of like got to this point where I was"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":378.816,"endTime":380.552,"body":"like, I have to."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":380.576,"endTime":380.888,"body":"I just."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":380.944,"endTime":381.832,"body":"I just have to choose."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":381.896,"endTime":383.208,"body":"Like, I just have to decide."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":383.304,"endTime":383.768,"body":"It's not."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":383.824,"endTime":385.864,"body":"It's not like, it's not a world ending"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":385.912,"endTime":386.5,"body":"question."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":387.12,"endTime":388.296,"body":"But I think my two."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":388.368,"endTime":390.472,"body":"For me personally, my two reasons came down to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":390.496,"endTime":391.3,"body":"that, like,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":391.67,"endTime":397.23,"body":"you know, the gender bias question and also"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":391.67,"endTime":397.23,"body":"wanting to distinguish my author self from my"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":397.27,"endTime":398.222,"body":"coach self."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":398.286,"endTime":400.814,"body":"Yeah, I wanted to kind of draw a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":400.902,"endTime":403.294,"body":"a line between those two brands."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":403.342,"endTime":404.094,"body":"They're both me."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":404.182,"endTime":405.806,"body":"But like, that's kind of where."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":405.878,"endTime":406.702,"body":"Where I landed with that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":406.726,"endTime":406.926,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":406.958,"endTime":408.494,"body":"So that's my pen name Saga."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":408.542,"endTime":410.366,"body":"It was so much more of a saga than it needed"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":410.398,"endTime":410.766,"body":"to be."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":410.838,"endTime":412.27,"body":"But it was funny when it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":412.31,"endTime":412.798,"body":"Because when."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":412.854,"endTime":416.89,"body":"When Kayla or asked this question in Tanisha's"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":412.854,"endTime":416.89,"body":"writing, I was like,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":417.92,"endTime":421.88,"body":"yeah, it's never too early to start thinking"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":417.92,"endTime":421.88,"body":"about it because I do think there's some"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":421.92,"endTime":427.672,"body":"freedom when you start thinking about it early"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":421.92,"endTime":427.672,"body":"to experiment with what feels right with no"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":427.776,"endTime":428.184,"body":"cost."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":428.272,"endTime":431.192,"body":"Like, for me, it was like, this is the name"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":428.272,"endTime":431.192,"body":"that's going on your book."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":431.296,"endTime":431.608,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":431.664,"endTime":433.544,"body":"Right now you have to pick."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":433.632,"endTime":434.92,"body":"You have 24 hours to pick."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":434.96,"endTime":436.728,"body":"This is a time to experiment."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":436.824,"endTime":439.032,"body":"I'm happy with my choice, but I do feel like"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":439.056,"endTime":445.032,"body":"giving yourself that time to experiment with"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":439.056,"endTime":445.032,"body":"different names and play and Is always going"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":445.056,"endTime":447.304,"body":"to help you feel more confident when you."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":447.472,"endTime":450.776,"body":"When you land with the book that you or the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":447.472,"endTime":450.776,"body":"name that you put on your books."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":450.888,"endTime":455.016,"body":"Yeah. Ultimately, I feel like pen"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":450.888,"endTime":455.016,"body":"names are way more common than people think."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":455.168,"endTime":455.544,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":455.592,"endTime":461.08,"body":"Like, if you just walk through a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":455.592,"endTime":461.08,"body":"store, a bookstore, there's like no way to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":461.12,"endTime":464.44,"body":"know whether the name on that book is a real"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":461.12,"endTime":464.44,"body":"name or a fake name."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":464.56,"endTime":468.7,"body":"But I really think pen names are way more"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":464.56,"endTime":468.7,"body":"common than people assume."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":470.41,"endTime":472.546,"body":"But yeah, I. I had."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":472.618,"endTime":474.11,"body":"My story is a little different,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":475.85,"endTime":476.594,"body":"but it's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":476.642,"endTime":480.05,"body":"It really did still come down to like, genre"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":480.21,"endTime":483.47,"body":"market and like my future brand."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":484.89,"endTime":489.15,"body":"So I had always intended to publish under my"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":484.89,"endTime":489.15,"body":"full name, Rachel May."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":490.57,"endTime":495.394,"body":"And I. I was writing Romantasy fantasy"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":490.57,"endTime":495.394,"body":"romance."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":495.442,"endTime":496.13,"body":"I was writing that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":496.17,"endTime":498.002,"body":"That's always what I have always written since"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":498.026,"endTime":502.452,"body":"I was like, started writing in high school"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":498.026,"endTime":502.452,"body":"fantasy romance."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":502.516,"endTime":505.64,"body":"And then I started writing a portal fantasy,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":506.22,"endTime":507.524,"body":"a portal fantasy romance."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":507.572,"endTime":508.74,"body":"And that's what I was working on."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":508.78,"endTime":511.28,"body":"And I was like, I'm gonna publish that under"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":508.78,"endTime":511.28,"body":"Rachel May."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":511.98,"endTime":513.636,"body":"Felt super confident about that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":513.708,"endTime":515.092,"body":"And then all of a sudden I was like, I should"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":515.116,"endTime":519.284,"body":"write a why choose Mafia romance?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":515.116,"endTime":519.284,"body":"And like, in one weekend just was like, boom,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":519.332,"endTime":520.548,"body":"I'm doing this now."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":520.684,"endTime":524.42,"body":"Like, wrote a whole book and was like, I could"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":520.684,"endTime":524.42,"body":"self publish this."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":524.46,"endTime":525.336,"body":"This is pretty good."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":525.468,"endTime":528.992,"body":"Um, and at that point I was thinking, do I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":529.016,"endTime":533.664,"body":"want to publish under Rachel May or do I want"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":529.016,"endTime":533.664,"body":"to publish under something different?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":533.752,"endTime":536.336,"body":"Um, and I asked like, a lot of."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":536.488,"endTime":537.728,"body":"A lot of our friends."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":537.864,"endTime":542.592,"body":"Like, I asked some of my clients that were"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":537.864,"endTime":542.592,"body":"published, I asked some of the people in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":542.616,"endTime":546.912,"body":"tenacious writing that were published, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":542.616,"endTime":546.912,"body":"what do you think about using your full name"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":546.936,"endTime":548.464,"body":"versus, like a pen name?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":548.632,"endTime":553.728,"body":"And the decision kind of came down to me where"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":548.632,"endTime":553.728,"body":"the genre that I'm writing, which is very,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":553.784,"endTime":558.028,"body":"like spicy, very spicy Mafia romance tends to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":553.784,"endTime":558.028,"body":"be really violent."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":558.124,"endTime":561.084,"body":"Like, that is for a specific reader group."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":561.252,"endTime":566.044,"body":"And like, if I were to write fantasy romance,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":561.252,"endTime":566.044,"body":"there is probably overlap, but it's a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":566.052,"endTime":567.64,"body":"different reader group."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":568.66,"endTime":569.756,"body":"Yeah, it's different."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":569.908,"endTime":572.38,"body":"So for me, I decided that I would probably use"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":572.42,"endTime":575.916,"body":"a different pen name for each genre that I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":572.42,"endTime":575.916,"body":"write."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":576.108,"endTime":580.3,"body":"So right now, Re May is like my pen name for"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":576.108,"endTime":580.3,"body":"why choose Mafia?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":580.38,"endTime":582.06,"body":"And like, will continue to be."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":582.18,"endTime":584.776,"body":"But if I ever end up publishing that portal"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":584.808,"endTime":589.176,"body":"fantasy or if I publish something else, I will"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":584.808,"endTime":589.176,"body":"use a different pen name."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":589.328,"endTime":591.768,"body":"And there's a couple of reasons behind that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":591.824,"endTime":592.744,"body":"One is like, your."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":592.832,"endTime":594.328,"body":"Your reader is going to be different."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":594.464,"endTime":599.144,"body":"So I wouldn't want to market like my why"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":594.464,"endTime":599.144,"body":"choose Mafia romance?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":599.192,"endTime":601.832,"body":"To someone who has no interest in why choose?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":601.976,"endTime":605.432,"body":"But if I use the same pen name, it's all the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":601.976,"endTime":605.432,"body":"same brand."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":605.536,"endTime":609.912,"body":"And then you end up like, muddying to readers"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":605.536,"endTime":609.912,"body":"or potential readers, like, what books are"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":609.936,"endTime":610.5,"body":"what."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":611.19,"endTime":614.894,"body":"And there are some, there are some authors"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":611.19,"endTime":614.894,"body":"that do that very successfully and there are"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":614.902,"endTime":619.166,"body":"some authors that like draw a hard line"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":614.902,"endTime":619.166,"body":"between the different genres that they write"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":619.198,"endTime":619.77,"body":"in."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":620.23,"endTime":625.55,"body":"And I ultimately decided, I felt like"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":620.23,"endTime":625.55,"body":"marketing would be easier if I had these"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":625.59,"endTime":627.65,"body":"different kind of brand umbrellas."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":628.39,"endTime":629.966,"body":"So I went with Ari Mae."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":630.078,"endTime":633.022,"body":"And I also feel like in the coaching sphere, I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":633.046,"endTime":634.286,"body":"go by Rachel May."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":634.438,"endTime":638.424,"body":"And because I write spicy books, I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":638.432,"endTime":642.344,"body":"be really careful about the overlap between"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":638.432,"endTime":642.344,"body":"these two spaces."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":642.472,"endTime":647.576,"body":"I have no problem talking about spice and sex"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":642.472,"endTime":647.576,"body":"and whatever, you know, in the study of craft"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":647.608,"endTime":648.376,"body":"that we do."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":648.528,"endTime":650.584,"body":"But I do understand that like, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":650.592,"endTime":654.3,"body":"people following me on my book coach account"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":650.592,"endTime":654.3,"body":"are not necessarily,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":654.72,"endTime":659.816,"body":"you know, wanting to see all of the spicy"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":654.72,"endTime":659.816,"body":"marketing that I do on my author account."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":659.968,"endTime":660.488,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":660.584,"endTime":663.48,"body":"So I do keep them separate for that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":660.584,"endTime":663.48,"body":"reason."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":664.42,"endTime":670.252,"body":"But I will, I, I think the, the more that I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":664.42,"endTime":670.252,"body":"write, I will publish under other pen names."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":670.316,"endTime":673.68,"body":"But choosing my name was a little challenging."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":674.42,"endTime":678.236,"body":"Obviously R is Rachel R E May."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":678.308,"endTime":680.16,"body":"But I have two middle names."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":680.58,"endTime":686.54,"body":"And so I played around with like what the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":680.58,"endTime":686.54,"body":"initials would actually be and I ended up just"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":686.58,"endTime":690.092,"body":"choosing an initial for like one of them to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":686.58,"endTime":690.092,"body":"like, keep it simple."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":690.236,"endTime":695.852,"body":"I, I really kind of wanted to do both, but"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":690.236,"endTime":695.852,"body":"then that, both of my middle names for like my"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":695.876,"endTime":696.508,"body":"initials."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":696.604,"endTime":699.0,"body":"But then that was like way too long."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":700.5,"endTime":708.748,"body":"And I also went with initials because I kind"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":700.5,"endTime":708.748,"body":"of didn't want all my family to see these"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":708.804,"endTime":709.532,"body":"books."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":709.676,"endTime":711.468,"body":"Yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":711.644,"endTime":715.24,"body":"You know, like, it feels, it feels"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":711.644,"endTime":715.24,"body":"more private this way."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":716.38,"endTime":719.316,"body":"My mother in law followed me over the weekend."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":719.508,"endTime":721.0,"body":"I was a little weird."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":721.58,"endTime":727.172,"body":"I didn't really love that my mom who listens"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":721.58,"endTime":727.172,"body":"to this podcast, hi mom, like also reads my"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":727.196,"endTime":727.668,"body":"books."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":727.764,"endTime":728.772,"body":"That's a little weird."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":728.836,"endTime":729.68,"body":"But like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":730.3,"endTime":735.36,"body":"I do think that because of the nature of what"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":730.3,"endTime":735.36,"body":"I write, I,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":735.82,"endTime":738.356,"body":"I try to keep a little safety for myself."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":738.468,"endTime":741.412,"body":"Like I don't think I told my mother in law"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":741.436,"endTime":743.68,"body":"before, like, these books are not for you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":744.67,"endTime":745.798,"body":"I love you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":745.934,"endTime":746.486,"body":"They're not."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":746.558,"endTime":747.446,"body":"You won't like them."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":747.518,"endTime":749.11,"body":"Like, you're not gonna, like."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":749.23,"endTime":751.766,"body":"It's gonna change your view of me"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":749.23,"endTime":751.766,"body":"forever."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":751.878,"endTime":755.11,"body":"It's not gonna change the way you look"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":751.878,"endTime":755.11,"body":"at me."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":755.23,"endTime":756.63,"body":"Please don't tell grandma."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":756.71,"endTime":760.33,"body":"You know, like grandma."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":761.55,"endTime":765.526,"body":"So like I keep them a little separate also."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":765.678,"endTime":768.278,"body":"That's why I went with like an initial too."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":768.414,"endTime":773.792,"body":"It's also not in, it's not like wildly"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":768.414,"endTime":773.792,"body":"uncommon in my genre for like authors to, to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":773.816,"endTime":775.104,"body":"publish with pen names."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":775.232,"endTime":776.256,"body":"That's so fun."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":776.328,"endTime":778.352,"body":"You guys never share These stories with each"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":778.376,"endTime":778.8,"body":"other."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":778.92,"endTime":779.76,"body":"So fun."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":779.88,"endTime":780.464,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":780.592,"endTime":783.376,"body":"So, yeah, that gives you a little insight"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":783.408,"endTime":785.792,"body":"into, like, different, you know, the ways"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":783.408,"endTime":785.792,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":785.816,"endTime":787.456,"body":"The things that we considered."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":787.488,"endTime":790.576,"body":"I feel like there's a lot of other things that"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":787.488,"endTime":790.576,"body":"people consider when we were."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":790.648,"endTime":794.528,"body":"It was kind of cool in tenacious writing,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":790.648,"endTime":794.528,"body":"like, watching people respond to how they"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":794.584,"endTime":795.808,"body":"chose their pen names."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":795.904,"endTime":796.608,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":796.784,"endTime":802.288,"body":"Maiden names for women are often really"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":796.784,"endTime":802.288,"body":"common or, like, family names."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":802.384,"endTime":806.108,"body":"Like, I think someone said they use their"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":802.384,"endTime":806.108,"body":"father's name as their last name name,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":806.244,"endTime":807.32,"body":"Something like that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":808.26,"endTime":813.148,"body":"And so I. I was gonna use my maiden name for"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":808.26,"endTime":813.148,"body":"the longest time."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":813.204,"endTime":816.428,"body":"That was gonna stay when I was writing epic"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":813.204,"endTime":816.428,"body":"fantasy."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":816.524,"endTime":822.86,"body":"But golden is just such a good, like, romance,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":816.524,"endTime":822.86,"body":"beautiful name that I was like, my husband can"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":822.9,"endTime":823.64,"body":"get it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":824.26,"endTime":825.04,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":826.26,"endTime":828.68,"body":"But I know a lot of people will do"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":826.26,"endTime":828.68,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":829.7,"endTime":830.444,"body":"I actually."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":830.532,"endTime":833.52,"body":"I'm not gonna name her just because I don't."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":833.97,"endTime":840.362,"body":"That it feels weird to name her, but there's a"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":833.97,"endTime":840.362,"body":"very, very famous young adult author I was"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":840.386,"endTime":841.194,"body":"gonna name her."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":841.282,"endTime":843.994,"body":"I was just gonna say it because she"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":841.282,"endTime":843.994,"body":"put it on the Internet."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":844.122,"endTime":844.634,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":844.682,"endTime":844.986,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":845.018,"endTime":845.386,"body":"Victoria."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":845.418,"endTime":846.362,"body":"Victoria Aveyard."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":846.426,"endTime":846.714,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":846.762,"endTime":847.39,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":848.13,"endTime":850.49,"body":"So when she got married, she was like."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":850.53,"endTime":852.778,"body":"I remember her posting that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":852.834,"endTime":856.87,"body":"She was like, oh, my goodness, the anonymity"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":852.834,"endTime":856.87,"body":"of having my husband's name."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":857.33,"endTime":858.71,"body":"She was like, I never,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":859.1,"endTime":859.46,"body":"like."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":859.5,"endTime":861.94,"body":"I totally underestimated how powerful that is,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":861.98,"endTime":867.092,"body":"like, to be able to, like, go to the airport"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":861.98,"endTime":867.092,"body":"and, like, not have people recognize who you"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":867.116,"endTime":867.68,"body":"are."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":867.98,"endTime":868.74,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":868.9,"endTime":872.084,"body":"She put that on threads, like, a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":868.9,"endTime":872.084,"body":"couple months ago."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":872.252,"endTime":872.804,"body":"I don't."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":872.852,"endTime":873.332,"body":"I didn't."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":873.396,"endTime":874.96,"body":"I've never heard her say that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":875.66,"endTime":879.3,"body":"I'm sure this is something that she's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":875.66,"endTime":879.3,"body":"mentioned a couple times, but she posted on"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":879.34,"endTime":881.44,"body":"threads a couple months ago, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":882.78,"endTime":883.652,"body":"some author."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":883.756,"endTime":885.812,"body":"I think it was Rebecca Yarros, like, when all"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":885.836,"endTime":891.098,"body":"this drama was coming out, because as far as I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":885.836,"endTime":891.098,"body":"know, and I. I could be mistaken, I'm pretty"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":891.114,"endTime":893.562,"body":"sure Rebecca Yarros's name is Rebecca Yarros."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":893.626,"endTime":895.03,"body":"So someone found her house,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":895.73,"endTime":900.762,"body":"the Internet found her, and, like, there was"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":895.73,"endTime":900.762,"body":"this huge discourse on, like, book threads,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":900.826,"endTime":905.338,"body":"you know, book talk, whatever, because"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":900.826,"endTime":905.338,"body":"obviously that's a huge breach in privacy."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":905.434,"endTime":905.69,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":905.73,"endTime":908.314,"body":"It's inappropriate to, like, find."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":908.402,"endTime":913.412,"body":"I mean, Rebecca Yaros now is this huge"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":908.402,"endTime":913.412,"body":"celebrity because of fourth wing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":913.586,"endTime":917.18,"body":"So that's when Victoria Aveyard posted and was"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":913.586,"endTime":917.18,"body":"like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":917.56,"endTime":919.552,"body":"my name is not my legal name."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":919.656,"endTime":920.352,"body":"That's what she said."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":920.376,"endTime":920.816,"body":"Like, the."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":920.888,"endTime":921.216,"body":"The."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":921.288,"endTime":921.9,"body":"The."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":923.08,"endTime":928.928,"body":"The name I publish with is no longer my legal"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":923.08,"endTime":928.928,"body":"name, and this is a way better choice for me."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":928.984,"endTime":929.648,"body":"So then she."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":929.704,"endTime":931.84,"body":"She was talking about, like, that dynamic of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":931.88,"endTime":933.744,"body":"how it's safer."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":933.872,"endTime":934.16,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":934.2,"endTime":936.768,"body":"It's literally, like, safer for some of these"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":936.824,"endTime":941.34,"body":"really Big name authors to use pen names,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":936.824,"endTime":941.34,"body":"like, to use not their real names, because"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":941.9,"endTime":944.5,"body":"it's not that hard to find someone on the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":941.9,"endTime":944.5,"body":"Internet."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":944.66,"endTime":945.46,"body":"Yeah, I know."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":945.5,"endTime":947.588,"body":"Like, I've seen Rebecca Yaros's pictures"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":947.604,"endTime":948.82,"body":"online and be like, you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":948.86,"endTime":950.72,"body":"I know you live really close to me."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":951.42,"endTime":953.796,"body":"I know you do, because I recognize this."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":953.868,"endTime":954.804,"body":"Yeah, she."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":954.892,"endTime":958.16,"body":"I'm sure she lives, like, within an"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":954.892,"endTime":958.16,"body":"hour from where I live."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":958.54,"endTime":962.756,"body":"It's not that hard to find people, especially"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":958.54,"endTime":962.756,"body":"when you're, like, very famous."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":962.948,"endTime":965.06,"body":"Yeah, Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":965.22,"endTime":966.48,"body":"I don't mean to."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":967.33,"endTime":971.11,"body":"No. But it's important because there"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":967.33,"endTime":971.11,"body":"was another author that I was."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":971.73,"endTime":973.098,"body":"There was another author."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":973.234,"endTime":974.634,"body":"I was listening to her podcast."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":974.682,"endTime":979.55,"body":"I think it was Rachel Heron."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":980.53,"endTime":981.306,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":981.418,"endTime":986.442,"body":"And she was talking about how, like,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":981.418,"endTime":986.442,"body":"someone commented on a picture of her that she"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":986.466,"endTime":990.138,"body":"took at her favorite cafe and was like, is"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":986.466,"endTime":990.138,"body":"this blank and blank cafe?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":990.234,"endTime":991.27,"body":"And just like."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":991.65,"endTime":992.25,"body":"Like some."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":992.29,"endTime":993.466,"body":"Just total random stranger."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":993.498,"endTime":995.338,"body":"And it's like, oh, my goodness, somebody can"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":993.498,"endTime":995.338,"body":"find me."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":995.394,"endTime":999.712,"body":"So I think it is important to, like, think"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":995.394,"endTime":999.712,"body":"about that and think about how difficult you"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":999.736,"endTime":1001.216,"body":"want it to be for people to find you."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1001.288,"endTime":1003.44,"body":"And like, the pictures that we post online,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1001.288,"endTime":1003.44,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1003.48,"endTime":1004.06,"body":"Like,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1005.0,"endTime":1005.74,"body":"they."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1006.52,"endTime":1007.824,"body":"They show information."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1007.912,"endTime":1009.792,"body":"They give information about where we are and"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1009.816,"endTime":1010.096,"body":"everything."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1010.168,"endTime":1012.272,"body":"And in today's climate, that feels like"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1012.296,"endTime":1013.68,"body":"something that's important to mention."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1013.76,"endTime":1017.456,"body":"So pen names are not like they are."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1017.528,"endTime":1021.744,"body":"They're so much more normal than you think,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1017.528,"endTime":1021.744,"body":"and they are not like some kind of cowardice"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1021.792,"endTime":1024.515,"body":"of hiding because you're ashamed of your"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1021.792,"endTime":1024.515,"body":"books."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1024.607,"endTime":1025.035,"body":"Like, it's."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1025.067,"endTime":1027.563,"body":"It's incredibly normal to get a pen name and"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1027.571,"endTime":1027.739,"body":"all."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1027.779,"endTime":1029.199,"body":"And probably advised."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1029.619,"endTime":1031.563,"body":"Yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1031.691,"endTime":1032.811,"body":"This day and age."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1032.995,"endTime":1033.531,"body":"Other."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1033.635,"endTime":1036.027,"body":"Other things to consider the pen name."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1036.163,"endTime":1037.803,"body":"Um. Oh, someone."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1037.971,"endTime":1039.371,"body":"I thought this was really beautiful."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1039.435,"endTime":1040.731,"body":"So someone in the."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1040.915,"endTime":1046.999,"body":"A couple people in the comments on this"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1040.915,"endTime":1046.999,"body":"question were talking about how you can,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1047.699,"endTime":1049.051,"body":"like, pick a name."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1049.155,"endTime":1051.323,"body":"You are kind of creating an identity and you"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1051.331,"endTime":1056.09,"body":"can kind of lean into that to, like, lean into"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1051.331,"endTime":1056.09,"body":"the kind of person that you want to be and,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1056.13,"endTime":1061.194,"body":"like, find, like, if that excites you and get,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1056.13,"endTime":1061.194,"body":"you know, like, becoming somebody else."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1061.242,"endTime":1064.458,"body":"Like, I don't think there's anything wrong"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1061.242,"endTime":1064.458,"body":"with, like, leaning into that excitement and"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1064.514,"endTime":1068.15,"body":"like, letting that help guide you towards the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1064.514,"endTime":1068.15,"body":"author that you want to be."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1068.53,"endTime":1072.634,"body":"So giving some thought to, like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1068.53,"endTime":1072.634,"body":"like, who is it that you want to be as an"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1072.642,"endTime":1077.674,"body":"author and what do you want your brand to look"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1072.642,"endTime":1077.674,"body":"like and how do you want that to be shown"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1077.722,"endTime":1078.814,"body":"through your pen name?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1078.962,"endTime":1080.05,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1080.59,"endTime":1081.75,"body":"Aspirational."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1081.91,"endTime":1082.89,"body":"Aspirational."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1083.87,"endTime":1084.438,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1084.534,"endTime":1085.77,"body":"I mean, that's cool."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1086.83,"endTime":1088.69,"body":"I have one last thought,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1089.23,"endTime":1091.99,"body":"which is like, don't overthink this."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1092.03,"endTime":1093.094,"body":"If you haven't fit."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1093.142,"endTime":1095.718,"body":"Like, if you're still working on your first"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1093.142,"endTime":1095.718,"body":"draft and you're just starting your social"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1095.774,"endTime":1099.638,"body":"media account, you can Change your handle 10"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1095.774,"endTime":1099.638,"body":"times."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1099.774,"endTime":1101.894,"body":"It really, really nobody will care."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1101.982,"endTime":1104.646,"body":"You just do a little post and say, I changed"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1104.678,"endTime":1109.772,"body":"my handle too, but I've changed my handle so"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1104.678,"endTime":1109.772,"body":"many times and you can end my name on my"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1109.796,"endTime":1110.316,"body":"handle."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1110.428,"endTime":1114.636,"body":"So you can just tell people what you're doing"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1110.428,"endTime":1114.636,"body":"in a little post and like, nobody cares."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1114.748,"endTime":1116.172,"body":"Yeah, nobody cares."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1116.236,"endTime":1118.46,"body":"They'll remember if they, you know,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1116.236,"endTime":1118.46,"body":"they'll remember you."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1118.5,"endTime":1119.74,"body":"They're not going to be confused."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1119.82,"endTime":1121.756,"body":"You're not like, harming anybody by changing"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1121.788,"endTime":1122.524,"body":"your handle."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1122.652,"endTime":1124.86,"body":"So, like, take that as permission to play"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1124.9,"endTime":1125.436,"body":"around."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1125.588,"endTime":1127.164,"body":"You know, use the name this month."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1127.252,"endTime":1129.052,"body":"If it doesn't feel right, try a different one"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1129.076,"endTime":1129.5,"body":"next month."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1129.54,"endTime":1130.06,"body":"Like it's."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1130.14,"endTime":1131.564,"body":"There's really no consequence."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1131.692,"endTime":1132.4,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1133.61,"endTime":1135.346,"body":"Cool. Alrighty."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1135.458,"endTime":1137.506,"body":"If you want to build a successful, fulfilling"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1137.538,"endTime":1141.378,"body":"and sustainable writing life that works for"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1137.538,"endTime":1141.378,"body":"you, you've got to get on our email list."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1141.514,"endTime":1145.122,"body":"Sign up now to get our free email"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1141.514,"endTime":1145.122,"body":"course, the Magic of Character Arcs."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1145.186,"endTime":1149.33,"body":"After seven days of email magic, you'll have"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1145.186,"endTime":1149.33,"body":"the power to keep your readers flipping pages"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1149.41,"endTime":1150.29,"body":"all through the night."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1150.41,"endTime":1151.346,"body":"Link in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1151.378,"endTime":1152.29,"body":"We'll see you there."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1152.41,"endTime":1152.57,"body":"By."}]}