{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":13.68,"endTime":16.872,"body":"Hey, writers, welcome back to Story"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":13.68,"endTime":16.872,"body":"Magic, the podcast that will help you write a"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":16.896,"endTime":18.152,"body":"book you're damn proud of."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":18.256,"endTime":19.176,"body":"I'm Rachel."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":19.288,"endTime":20.408,"body":"And I'm Emily."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":20.584,"endTime":26.088,"body":"And today we are talking about hybrid"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":20.584,"endTime":26.088,"body":"publishers, hybrid publishing journey, all"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":26.144,"endTime":31.102,"body":"things publishing through hybrid with very"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":26.144,"endTime":31.102,"body":"special guest episode, Yvette Davis."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":31.166,"endTime":32.478,"body":"Yvette, welcome."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":32.654,"endTime":33.15,"body":"Hello."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":33.23,"endTime":33.89,"body":"Welcome."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":34.87,"endTime":37.93,"body":"We are so excited to have you on the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":34.87,"endTime":37.93,"body":"podcast today."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":38.23,"endTime":43.102,"body":"Before we dive into our topic, could you tell"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":38.23,"endTime":43.102,"body":"us a little bit about you and the books that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":43.126,"endTime":46.094,"body":"you write and how you got into writing in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":43.126,"endTime":46.094,"body":"general?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":46.182,"endTime":47.582,"body":"Let's just talk about you."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":47.766,"endTime":48.67,"body":"Sure, that's great."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":48.71,"endTime":49.81,"body":"Thank you for asking."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":50.15,"endTime":53.73,"body":"So I have been writing,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":55.11,"endTime":61.598,"body":"let's see, science fiction, urban fantasy,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":55.11,"endTime":61.598,"body":"dystopian novels for about a decade and I'm"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":61.614,"endTime":62.702,"body":"based in San Francisco."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":62.766,"endTime":67.038,"body":"I have a day job as a co owner of a very"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":67.094,"endTime":70.862,"body":"successful public relations firm in San"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":67.094,"endTime":70.862,"body":"Francisco that does political consulting,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":70.926,"endTime":72.046,"body":"crisis communication."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":72.158,"endTime":77.454,"body":"So not surprisingly, my writing and my day job"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":72.158,"endTime":77.454,"body":"somewhat intersect."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":77.502,"endTime":79.81,"body":"Except for the part where there are witches"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":77.502,"endTime":79.81,"body":"and vampires."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":80.47,"endTime":81.662,"body":"That's the best part."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":81.766,"endTime":83.25,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":84.71,"endTime":85.166,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":85.198,"endTime":87.69,"body":"So you've been writing for like 10"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":85.198,"endTime":87.69,"body":"years now."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":88.09,"endTime":93.346,"body":"Um, and these books that are coming out now,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":88.09,"endTime":93.346,"body":"you're publishing them through our hybrid"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":93.378,"endTime":93.794,"body":"publisher."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":93.842,"endTime":95.266,"body":"That's why we're talking about this today."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":95.338,"endTime":99.362,"body":"What was that journey like writing?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":95.338,"endTime":99.362,"body":"Did you already have them written before you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":99.386,"endTime":100.226,"body":"went down this journey?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":100.258,"endTime":102.13,"body":"Was that the intention, the goal?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":102.29,"endTime":103.87,"body":"Sure, that's a great question."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":104.89,"endTime":109.714,"body":"So I created my own publishing imprint called"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":104.89,"endTime":109.714,"body":"Flesh and Bone Publishing, and I actually"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":109.802,"endTime":113.906,"body":"published three novels through that imprint."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":114.098,"endTime":116.082,"body":"These two, two of the books in this trilogy"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":116.146,"endTime":121.394,"body":"and another standalone novel called 48 States,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":116.146,"endTime":121.394,"body":"which was a Kirkus starred review novel a"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":121.402,"endTime":125.63,"body":"couple years ago about a maniacal CEO who"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":121.402,"endTime":125.63,"body":"tries to overthrow the government."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":126.49,"endTime":131.57,"body":"But I knew Brooke Warner, the founder of she"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":126.49,"endTime":131.57,"body":"writes and Spark Press."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":131.61,"endTime":134.978,"body":"I had met her many times through our various"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":131.61,"endTime":134.978,"body":"work together."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":135.034,"endTime":137.554,"body":"I'm on the board of Litquake, San Francisco's"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":135.034,"endTime":137.554,"body":"literary festival."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":137.682,"endTime":138.642,"body":"And I had, I just."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":138.666,"endTime":141.312,"body":"It's a. It's really backbreaking to be totally"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":141.376,"endTime":142.704,"body":"a self published writer."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":142.832,"endTime":145.392,"body":"It's a lot of work when you do it well, you"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":145.416,"endTime":149.728,"body":"have to engage with a lot of editors and"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":145.416,"endTime":149.728,"body":"proofreaders and it's expensive."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":149.824,"endTime":152.848,"body":"And I wanted to try hybrid publishing."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":152.864,"endTime":154.832,"body":"And I had been watching Spark Press and she"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":154.856,"endTime":155.312,"body":"writes press."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":155.336,"endTime":157.216,"body":"And I was impressed with what Brooke was doing"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":157.288,"endTime":162.928,"body":"and so I approached her and asked her if she"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":157.288,"endTime":162.928,"body":"would consider taking the trilogy and"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":163.064,"endTime":165.52,"body":"republishing the first two books and then"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":163.064,"endTime":165.52,"body":"taking the third one."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":165.56,"endTime":166.384,"body":"And she agreed."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":166.432,"endTime":167.552,"body":"I was very fortunate."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":167.696,"endTime":171.312,"body":"A lot of people think that hybrid publishing"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":167.696,"endTime":171.312,"body":"is like vanity press where they'll just take"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":171.336,"endTime":171.744,"body":"Anything."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":171.792,"endTime":174.518,"body":"But in fact, they review it and you have to,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":174.574,"endTime":176.134,"body":"you know, pass their standards."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":176.182,"endTime":178.73,"body":"So I like that that was a little shot in the"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":176.182,"endTime":178.73,"body":"arm."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":179.07,"endTime":183.094,"body":"But the books also needed to be brought into a"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":179.07,"endTime":183.094,"body":"kind of state of modernity."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":183.142,"endTime":184.326,"body":"And I'll just give you an example."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":184.358,"endTime":186.102,"body":"Like in the original versions, people read"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":186.126,"endTime":186.742,"body":"newspapers."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":186.806,"endTime":189.702,"body":"There was no streaming, you know, like Spotify"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":189.766,"endTime":190.758,"body":"hadn't come on board."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":190.814,"endTime":196.07,"body":"And so going back and reading them, you're"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":190.814,"endTime":196.07,"body":"like, wow, a lot has changed in just a very"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":196.11,"endTime":196.918,"body":"short amount of time."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":196.974,"endTime":199.462,"body":"And there are all sorts of issues about agency"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":199.526,"endTime":204.68,"body":"and the post me too movement and just being"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":199.526,"endTime":204.68,"body":"sensitive to things that weren't as"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":205.14,"endTime":205.724,"body":"noticeable."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":205.772,"endTime":208.684,"body":"And so it was a really fun experience to bring"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":205.772,"endTime":208.684,"body":"them up to scratch."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":208.732,"endTime":213.5,"body":"And then of course, they went through a"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":208.732,"endTime":213.5,"body":"rebranding and new covers and new artwork."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":213.58,"endTime":218.044,"body":"And the benefit of hybrid publishing is that"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":213.58,"endTime":218.044,"body":"you are self published in the sense that"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":218.052,"endTime":222.588,"body":"you're paying for it, but you're getting all"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":218.052,"endTime":222.588,"body":"of the professionalism that you need."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":222.644,"endTime":227.132,"body":"The editors, the book designers, and also"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":222.644,"endTime":227.132,"body":"Simon and Schuster is our distributor."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":227.196,"endTime":233.99,"body":"And for me, that was the single biggest game"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":227.196,"endTime":233.99,"body":"changer was having a really, you know,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":234.03,"endTime":237.33,"body":"obviously a big name and a professional name"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":234.03,"endTime":237.33,"body":"in publishing, but it also,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":237.71,"endTime":239.894,"body":"it really changes your obligations as a"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":237.71,"endTime":239.894,"body":"writer."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":239.942,"endTime":245.014,"body":"You have a lot of work in terms of getting"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":239.942,"endTime":245.014,"body":"prepared and filling out all the different tip"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":245.062,"endTime":249.542,"body":"sheets and cover memos and things that they"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":245.062,"endTime":249.542,"body":"need to be able to sell these books, you know,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":249.566,"endTime":250.694,"body":"across the United States."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":250.782,"endTime":251.59,"body":"So it's."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":251.75,"endTime":254.518,"body":"It was a. It was a great decision, but it also"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":254.574,"endTime":256.684,"body":"really ups your game considerably."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":256.862,"endTime":260.128,"body":"Yeah. So go ahead, Emma."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":260.224,"endTime":261.456,"body":"Yeah, I was just curious."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":261.568,"endTime":262.0,"body":"So you."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":262.04,"endTime":263.36,"body":"You did the indie thing."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":263.48,"endTime":264.784,"body":"You got like a really good."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":264.792,"endTime":267.632,"body":"It sounds like a really good experience doing"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":264.792,"endTime":267.632,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":267.656,"endTime":270.256,"body":"And then you decided you wanted to try a"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":267.656,"endTime":270.256,"body":"different publishing path."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":270.288,"endTime":272.064,"body":"And I'm just so curious because there's."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":272.112,"endTime":272.272,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":272.296,"endTime":273.936,"body":"There's so many different publishing paths."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":273.968,"endTime":276.272,"body":"And we've done a couple episodes for folks on"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":276.296,"endTime":278.256,"body":"the differences between them."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":278.328,"endTime":280.24,"body":"But I'm just curious, like, what was your"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":280.28,"endTime":283.546,"body":"decision process for choosing Hybrid?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":283.578,"endTime":284.346,"body":"Like, what were you."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":284.418,"endTime":285.946,"body":"What were the kind of the pros and the cons?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":286.018,"endTime":288.63,"body":"Like, why that publishing route for you?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":289.01,"endTime":294.186,"body":"And the reason I'm asking is because I think"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":289.01,"endTime":294.186,"body":"we talk a lot about how these are business"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":294.258,"endTime":296.458,"body":"decisions, right?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":294.258,"endTime":296.458,"body":"They're personal decisions about the business"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":296.514,"endTime":297.29,"body":"that you want to run."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":297.33,"endTime":298.618,"body":"And there's no right or wrong decision."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":298.674,"endTime":300.074,"body":"There's just kind of the pros and cons of what"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":300.082,"endTime":301.578,"body":"you want your publishing journey to be like."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":301.634,"endTime":302.602,"body":"So I'd love for."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":302.706,"endTime":306.442,"body":"To get your experience personally and also for"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":302.706,"endTime":306.442,"body":"our readers to understand kind of what were"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":306.466,"endTime":308.522,"body":"the steps that led you to choose that path."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":308.586,"endTime":309.218,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":309.394,"endTime":311.938,"body":"Well, so if you're doing this sort of on your"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":311.994,"endTime":314.39,"body":"own, right, you're self publishing,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":314.73,"endTime":317.058,"body":"you have to make a series of decisions."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":317.154,"endTime":318.466,"body":"What is your book cover?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":318.618,"endTime":321.458,"body":"How are you publishing?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":318.618,"endTime":321.458,"body":"Who's proofreading it?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":321.514,"endTime":325.378,"body":"Is it being line edited?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":321.514,"endTime":325.378,"body":"You have to upload it, it has to be uploaded"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":325.394,"endTime":328.962,"body":"to different platforms, and then you have to"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":325.394,"endTime":328.962,"body":"decide on the price and you have to decide on"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":328.986,"endTime":329.762,"body":"the metadata."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":329.826,"endTime":331.506,"body":"And it's a lot of work."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":331.578,"endTime":333.954,"body":"And, you know, depending on what your goals"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":334.002,"endTime":338.332,"body":"are, if you're, you know, I, I'm not, I have"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":334.002,"endTime":338.332,"body":"realistic goals for myself in terms of a"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":338.356,"endTime":341.324,"body":"writer, but I do want to build a brand and I"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":338.356,"endTime":341.324,"body":"do want to build an audience."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":341.452,"endTime":344.572,"body":"And having done it on my own, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":341.452,"endTime":344.572,"body":"still had to hire."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":344.636,"endTime":348.812,"body":"I hired, I have a, I have my own personal"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":344.636,"endTime":348.812,"body":"developmental editor that edits all of my"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":348.836,"endTime":349.436,"body":"manuscripts."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":349.468,"endTime":351.596,"body":"And then I needed line editors and I needed"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":349.468,"endTime":351.596,"body":"proof editors."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":351.628,"endTime":354.924,"body":"I, I have my own PR firm that I don't do my"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":351.628,"endTime":354.924,"body":"own pr."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":355.012,"endTime":356.252,"body":"I have a publicist."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":356.396,"endTime":358.62,"body":"And at some point it was just a lot of work."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":358.66,"endTime":363.9,"body":"It's backbreaking. And I, I thought that"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":358.66,"endTime":363.9,"body":"hybrid publishing or offered an opportunity to"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":363.94,"endTime":370.54,"body":"maybe streamline a lot of those internal"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":363.94,"endTime":370.54,"body":"processes and keep them professional, but also"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":370.58,"endTime":373.132,"body":"put them in a place where I just had to say"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":370.58,"endTime":373.132,"body":"yes or no."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":373.156,"endTime":376.812,"body":"I mean, I still have to review my manuscript,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":373.156,"endTime":376.812,"body":"but the manuscript goes to an editor and then"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":376.836,"endTime":377.5,"body":"it comes back to me."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":377.54,"endTime":379.452,"body":"So, like, I have, you know, I, I still get"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":379.476,"endTime":383.532,"body":"advanced reader copies and I have arcs that I"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":379.476,"endTime":383.532,"body":"have to review, but I didn't have to do all of"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":383.556,"endTime":387.852,"body":"that and I didn't have to upload it to"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":383.556,"endTime":387.852,"body":"IngramSpark and make sure that it uploads and"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":387.876,"endTime":389.372,"body":"I didn't have to choose the font."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":389.436,"endTime":393.322,"body":"You know, it's like when the book comes back"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":389.436,"endTime":393.322,"body":"laid out like a book designer did it, and they"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":393.346,"endTime":397.674,"body":"know what they're doing and they know about"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":393.346,"endTime":397.674,"body":"what should be on the COVID And I don't have"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":397.682,"endTime":400.01,"body":"to guess if, like, my image is going to be"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":397.682,"endTime":400.01,"body":"okay."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":400.09,"endTime":408.218,"body":"And so it was a business decision to save time"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":400.09,"endTime":408.218,"body":"and avoid mistakes that could be avoided by"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":408.274,"endTime":412.81,"body":"using a group of people who know what they're"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":408.274,"endTime":412.81,"body":"doing and they have an incredibly good track"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":412.85,"endTime":414.362,"body":"record of selling books."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":414.506,"endTime":418.586,"body":"But, you know, when you join a hybrid, at"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":414.506,"endTime":418.586,"body":"least when you join Spark Press, she writes"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":418.618,"endTime":421.79,"body":"press, you get a writer's handbook."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":421.95,"endTime":424.158,"body":"It has a bunch of things you need to know."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":424.294,"endTime":427.486,"body":"And you still have to basically make a"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":424.294,"endTime":427.486,"body":"commitment, say, for example, to do public"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":427.558,"endTime":431.71,"body":"relations, which I think the most common"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":427.558,"endTime":431.71,"body":"complaint that I get from writers is like,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":431.75,"endTime":434.158,"body":"well, why do I have to hire a PR person?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":434.214,"endTime":436.174,"body":"And they're so expensive, and it's very"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":434.214,"endTime":436.174,"body":"expensive."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":436.222,"endTime":439.33,"body":"And as somebody who charges for pr, I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":436.222,"endTime":439.33,"body":"yeah, I know it's expensive,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":439.99,"endTime":445.086,"body":"but you have to think about without making"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":439.99,"endTime":445.086,"body":"everybody cry, who's a writer, how many books"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":445.118,"endTime":450.462,"body":"are released every day, every month?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":445.118,"endTime":450.462,"body":"I mean, in order to have any chance of anybody"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":450.526,"endTime":454.522,"body":"knowing who you are, unless you're staying up"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":450.526,"endTime":454.522,"body":"all night and doing social media when you"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":454.546,"endTime":455.338,"body":"should be sleeping,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":455.434,"endTime":458.99,"body":"you've got to have somebody helping you with"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":455.434,"endTime":458.99,"body":"your publicity."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":459.89,"endTime":461.53,"body":"So it was a business decision."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":461.65,"endTime":463.658,"body":"And, you know, you can go back even further,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":463.714,"endTime":467.274,"body":"say, why didn't I go to just a traditional"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":463.714,"endTime":467.274,"body":"agent and, like, query these books?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":467.322,"endTime":473.082,"body":"I did, but I got a lot of feedback that these"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":467.322,"endTime":473.082,"body":"books were, like, too political and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":473.106,"endTime":474.298,"body":"or they weren't mainstream enough."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":474.354,"endTime":476.234,"body":"And I'm not."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":476.402,"endTime":478.57,"body":"At least in the moment, I'm not in the mood to"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":478.61,"endTime":480.846,"body":"write what will sell to an agent."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":480.878,"endTime":482.846,"body":"I'm in the mood to write what I'm interested"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":482.878,"endTime":483.678,"body":"in writing."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":483.854,"endTime":487.21,"body":"And so that was my first business decision,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":483.854,"endTime":487.21,"body":"was not to go courting them."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":487.59,"endTime":492.574,"body":"And even with 48 states, I sent that book out"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":487.59,"endTime":492.574,"body":"to dozens and dozens of agents."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":492.622,"endTime":495.182,"body":"Many took the book and kept it for six months."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":495.206,"endTime":496.414,"body":"And they're like, oh, it's so hard to"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":496.422,"endTime":497.502,"body":"understand how to sell this book."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":497.526,"endTime":501.49,"body":"It's so political. Right. Really?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":497.526,"endTime":501.49,"body":"Like, I feel like, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":502.07,"endTime":508.034,"body":"but in any case, this, to me, was a compelling"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":502.07,"endTime":508.034,"body":"middle ground."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":508.122,"endTime":511.794,"body":"And then if you ask me for, like, what I'm"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":508.122,"endTime":511.794,"body":"going to do next, I don't know if I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":511.802,"endTime":513.906,"body":"publish a paper book for the next books that I"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":511.802,"endTime":513.906,"body":"write."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":513.938,"endTime":519.266,"body":"I feel like maybe I'm going to spend, like, I"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":513.938,"endTime":519.266,"body":"have an interest in writing a romance series."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":519.418,"endTime":524.066,"body":"And I'm thinking maybe there are ebooks on"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":519.418,"endTime":524.066,"body":"Kindle, you know, unlimited or whatever."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":524.098,"endTime":528.802,"body":"And I don't go into the paper version or I do"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":524.098,"endTime":528.802,"body":"a. I don't know, because I have a substack"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":528.866,"endTime":530.13,"body":"column and I. I'm."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":530.21,"endTime":533.282,"body":"I'm doing a serial Fiction of 48 states on"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":533.306,"endTime":537.47,"body":"Substack, and I'm like, maybe I just want to"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":533.306,"endTime":537.47,"body":"really do a great serial fiction for a while."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":537.59,"endTime":542.51,"body":"And that is one of the nice things about where"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":537.59,"endTime":542.51,"body":"we are today as writers is you have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":542.55,"endTime":543.198,"body":"choices."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":543.294,"endTime":543.662,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":543.726,"endTime":547.758,"body":"And then maybe I'm going to write some magnum"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":543.726,"endTime":547.758,"body":"opus, and I'm going to query agents and just"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":547.814,"endTime":549.31,"body":"pray that somebody takes my book."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":549.35,"endTime":550.43,"body":"Right. But it's hard."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":550.47,"endTime":553.022,"body":"It's extremely competitive landscape."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":553.166,"endTime":555.05,"body":"Yeah, I love."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":555.35,"endTime":556.158,"body":"Go ahead."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":556.294,"endTime":560.25,"body":"I was just going to say I love this, I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":556.294,"endTime":560.25,"body":"love bringing it back to like, choice because"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":560.87,"endTime":564.526,"body":"we talk a lot about this on the podcast where"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":560.87,"endTime":564.526,"body":"Emily's traditional publish and I'm self"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":564.558,"endTime":564.942,"body":"published."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":565.006,"endTime":570.13,"body":"So I love hearing this third option of like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":565.006,"endTime":570.13,"body":"there's aspects of both parts of this and what"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":570.17,"endTime":573.282,"body":"is going to be most comfortable for this for"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":570.17,"endTime":573.282,"body":"the writer."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":573.426,"endTime":576.53,"body":"And it boils down to choice and options."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":576.61,"endTime":579.394,"body":"We have a lot of options now that we didn't"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":576.61,"endTime":579.394,"body":"used to have."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":579.482,"endTime":585.458,"body":"And I, I, I think that's so important because"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":579.482,"endTime":585.458,"body":"at the same time, hearing you say, like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":585.474,"endTime":589.49,"body":"really committed to what these books say, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":585.474,"endTime":589.49,"body":"know, like, I don't want to, I want to write"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":589.57,"endTime":590.994,"body":"the message that I want to write."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":591.042,"endTime":594.922,"body":"I mean, we're always talking about how"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":591.042,"endTime":594.922,"body":"important it is that you make choices for"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":594.946,"endTime":595.498,"body":"yourself."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":595.594,"endTime":598.122,"body":"And there are options to help you get your"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":598.146,"endTime":601.978,"body":"book out there into the world in the vision"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":598.146,"endTime":601.978,"body":"that you want it to be."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":602.034,"endTime":608.33,"body":"And you don't have to feel like, I can only go"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":602.034,"endTime":608.33,"body":"this one route or I, or I'm locking into this"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":608.37,"endTime":609.77,"body":"choice for my whole career."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":609.85,"endTime":612.778,"body":"It's like, it's, we laugh because we started"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":612.834,"endTime":616.97,"body":"to say, like, it's so unserious of like, it's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":612.834,"endTime":616.97,"body":"just not that you can always change your mind."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":617.01,"endTime":618.522,"body":"You can always go a different direction."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":618.586,"endTime":620.124,"body":"There will be options."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":620.172,"endTime":621.724,"body":"I think that's really powerful."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":621.772,"endTime":625.02,"body":"And it sounds like now you feel really"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":625.06,"endTime":628.732,"body":"empowered by those choices where like 10"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":625.06,"endTime":628.732,"body":"years, when you, 10 years ago, when you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":628.756,"endTime":629.32,"body":"started,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":629.86,"endTime":631.64,"body":"it wasn't necessarily the same."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":631.94,"endTime":634.332,"body":"Yes. And. Well, and I just, I"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":631.94,"endTime":634.332,"body":"have two things."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":634.356,"endTime":639.42,"body":"One, Emily, I've been with traditionally"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":634.356,"endTime":639.42,"body":"published authors in like book festivals, and"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":639.46,"endTime":642.684,"body":"I've heard them complain that they got no PR"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":639.46,"endTime":642.684,"body":"budget, no marketing."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":642.732,"endTime":646.746,"body":"So I mean, I feel like being a traditionally"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":642.732,"endTime":646.746,"body":"published author, while it has, it certainly"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":646.778,"endTime":651.338,"body":"feels good to be chosen out of that pile and"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":646.778,"endTime":651.338,"body":"to have a publisher that wants to support you,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":651.474,"endTime":654.794,"body":"but you still face a lot of the same things"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":651.474,"endTime":654.794,"body":"that other writers do unless you're at the"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":654.802,"endTime":655.802,"body":"very top of the list."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":655.906,"endTime":660.57,"body":"And so I feel like that's why you see"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":655.906,"endTime":660.57,"body":"established writers, like, you know, some stay"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":660.61,"endTime":663.722,"body":"with their publisher, some do some on their"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":660.61,"endTime":663.722,"body":"own, some, you know, it varies."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":663.786,"endTime":666.65,"body":"And I think that is a great freedom."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":666.73,"endTime":669.546,"body":"Just the same as if I wanted to write a murder"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":666.73,"endTime":669.546,"body":"mystery, I should be able to write a murder"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":669.578,"endTime":674.252,"body":"mystery and not only have to write science"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":669.578,"endTime":674.252,"body":"fiction, but I, there was a lot of prejudice"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":674.316,"endTime":678.124,"body":"and kind of snobbiness with being a self"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":674.316,"endTime":678.124,"body":"published writer."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":678.172,"endTime":681.356,"body":"I actually was at a dinner party recently"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":678.172,"endTime":681.356,"body":"where a traditionally published writer said,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":681.428,"endTime":683.964,"body":"you're the smartest self published writer I've"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":681.428,"endTime":683.964,"body":"ever Met."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":684.132,"endTime":685.148,"body":"Oh, my goodness."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":685.244,"endTime":686.652,"body":"Backhanded compliment."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":686.716,"endTime":688.508,"body":"Yeah. Thanks so much, I think."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":688.644,"endTime":690.22,"body":"But so, you know, there's really."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":690.26,"endTime":691.084,"body":"And that's just."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":691.172,"endTime":691.548,"body":"I think."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":691.604,"endTime":694.892,"body":"I don't think she meant it as bad as it came"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":691.604,"endTime":694.892,"body":"out, but, you know, she didn't."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":694.956,"endTime":696.268,"body":"But, yeah, we're like."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":696.324,"endTime":697.756,"body":"It's ingrained in us."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":697.828,"endTime":698.204,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":698.292,"endTime":699.742,"body":"And I think that's so."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":699.916,"endTime":703.93,"body":"I feel like half of our time on this podcast"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":699.916,"endTime":703.93,"body":"is spent trying to un."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":703.97,"endTime":705.194,"body":"Ingrain that from."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":705.282,"endTime":710.09,"body":"Disentangle that from people's brains because"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":705.282,"endTime":710.09,"body":"it's so toxically pervasive."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":710.25,"endTime":710.99,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":711.49,"endTime":712.202,"body":"I think so."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":712.226,"endTime":713.066,"body":"And I think anybody."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":713.098,"endTime":716.362,"body":"I try to tell people if you wrote a book, you"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":713.098,"endTime":716.362,"body":"did more than somebody who said they were"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":716.386,"endTime":717.082,"body":"going to write a book."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":717.106,"endTime":718.714,"body":"There's lots of people like, yeah, I'm working"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":717.106,"endTime":718.714,"body":"on a novel."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":718.762,"endTime":720.266,"body":"You're like, it's been 10 years."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":720.418,"endTime":721.61,"body":"Let's wrap it up."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":721.65,"endTime":723.066,"body":"You know, if you put."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":723.138,"endTime":724.762,"body":"If you put the commitment in and you did"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":724.786,"endTime":726.244,"body":"something, I don't care how you did it."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":726.362,"endTime":732.016,"body":"It's important to be a creator is to sacrifice"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":726.362,"endTime":732.016,"body":"a lot that other people don't in the service"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":732.088,"endTime":732.848,"body":"of making something."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":732.904,"endTime":735.584,"body":"And making something is important."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":735.752,"endTime":739.392,"body":"And when you do it, you should feel good about"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":735.752,"endTime":739.392,"body":"yourself, regardless of the platform that you"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":739.416,"endTime":741.776,"body":"ultimately use to, you know, give it to the"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":739.416,"endTime":741.776,"body":"world."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":741.928,"endTime":743.264,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":743.392,"endTime":746.576,"body":"Can we talk about marketing for a"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":743.392,"endTime":746.576,"body":"second, since we're kind of on the topic?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":746.768,"endTime":748.464,"body":"Did I hear you right when you said."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":748.552,"endTime":751.216,"body":"Did you say that your hybrid publisher helps"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":751.248,"endTime":754.282,"body":"you with PR or that you hired somebody else to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":751.248,"endTime":754.282,"body":"do your pr?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":754.386,"endTime":758.15,"body":"Okay, can you talk a little bit about that?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":754.386,"endTime":758.15,"body":"What does marketing look like in your."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":758.93,"endTime":762.778,"body":"Like, in the, hi, hybrid world?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":758.93,"endTime":762.778,"body":"From your experience, obviously, knowing that"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":762.834,"endTime":764.762,"body":"hybrids vary a lot, but."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":764.946,"endTime":769.498,"body":"So for she Writes and Spark"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":764.946,"endTime":769.498,"body":"Press, we received a writer's handbook, and it"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":769.554,"endTime":775.114,"body":"had in it, I would say, like a half a dozen,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":769.554,"endTime":775.114,"body":"maybe seven different public relations firms"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":775.162,"endTime":779.946,"body":"that they trusted and knew and they encouraged"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":775.162,"endTime":779.946,"body":"you to use them, among others."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":780.018,"endTime":784.57,"body":"And I had already gone through different PR"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":780.018,"endTime":784.57,"body":"firms, so I basically interviewed with two"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":784.61,"endTime":790.102,"body":"firms I had used before and I. And two firms"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":784.61,"endTime":790.102,"body":"that were on the list and came ultimately to"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":790.126,"endTime":792.53,"body":"use a PR firm called Books Forward."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":793.31,"endTime":797.83,"body":"And I've had a. You know, I have my own"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":793.31,"endTime":797.83,"body":"resources, so I'm in a fortunate place."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":797.87,"endTime":804.07,"body":"But I have, you know, a full retainer kind of"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":797.87,"endTime":804.07,"body":"program with them for the three books."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":804.23,"endTime":808.086,"body":"Although I can talk a little bit about what"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":804.23,"endTime":808.086,"body":"it's like to have a second book in a trilogy"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":808.118,"endTime":811.56,"body":"and how much less attention you get for it"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":808.118,"endTime":811.56,"body":"versus the first."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":811.75,"endTime":815.524,"body":"So it's been everything from traditional media"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":811.75,"endTime":815.524,"body":"pitching, pitching, to podcasts and"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":815.612,"endTime":819.172,"body":"journalists to a pretty aggressive social"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":815.612,"endTime":819.172,"body":"media program."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":819.276,"endTime":822.372,"body":"And I have some strategic digital ad buying."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":822.516,"endTime":824.868,"body":"They've helped enter the book in awards."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":824.964,"endTime":829.4,"body":"They've helped make sure that it has all of"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":824.964,"endTime":829.4,"body":"the strategic industry reviews."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":830.14,"endTime":834.852,"body":"And I've even had them consult a little on my"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":830.14,"endTime":834.852,"body":"website and making sure that I've updated my"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":834.876,"endTime":838.454,"body":"website and then really maximizing the reader"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":834.876,"endTime":838.454,"body":"experience."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":838.622,"endTime":843.622,"body":"So some people, you know, and I, and I signed"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":838.622,"endTime":843.622,"body":"on for a year knowing that I was going to do"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":843.646,"endTime":847.942,"body":"this very intense roller coaster and not"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":843.646,"endTime":847.942,"body":"wanting to stop and start,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":848.046,"endTime":849.542,"body":"you know, my process."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":849.726,"endTime":851.926,"body":"Some people only have a, you know, somebody"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":851.958,"endTime":855.67,"body":"for the launch, which is, what, three months"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":851.958,"endTime":855.67,"body":"before your publication date, and then they"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":855.71,"endTime":859.782,"body":"just drop off into the nothingness, which,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":855.71,"endTime":859.782,"body":"look, it's what you can afford and what you"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":859.806,"endTime":861.67,"body":"can do, but it's daunting, right?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":861.71,"endTime":866.814,"body":"I mean, I look at my Amazon Goodreads things"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":861.71,"endTime":866.814,"body":"and it's like, I have more on Goodreads than I"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":866.822,"endTime":869.326,"body":"do on Amazon because nobody likes Amazon."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":869.358,"endTime":870.59,"body":"And yet Amazon is a."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":870.63,"endTime":872.366,"body":"Is where most people purchase their books."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":872.398,"endTime":875.646,"body":"So it's like having 124 reviews on Goodreads"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":875.678,"endTime":879.31,"body":"is great, but it doesn't sell books the way"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":875.678,"endTime":879.31,"body":"that having hundred on Amazon would."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":879.35,"endTime":883.55,"body":"And so I'm constantly trying to figure out"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":879.35,"endTime":883.55,"body":"what the alchemy is of streak team and doing"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":883.59,"endTime":883.854,"body":"stuff."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":883.902,"endTime":887.982,"body":"And quite frankly, it's one of the reasons why"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":883.902,"endTime":887.982,"body":"I think being a writer today is so frustrating"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":888.046,"endTime":888.8,"body":"is because it's."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":888.83,"endTime":890.284,"body":"You're spending half your time just trying to"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":890.292,"endTime":893.356,"body":"get people to say nice things about you online"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":890.292,"endTime":893.356,"body":"so somebody will buy your book."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":893.508,"endTime":897.164,"body":"And then I'm running into bookstores and,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":893.508,"endTime":897.164,"body":"like, signing books and trying to be nice to"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":897.172,"endTime":897.292,"body":"them."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":897.316,"endTime":900.092,"body":"But I know, like, fewer, very few people will"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":900.116,"endTime":904.828,"body":"buy my book in a bookstore versus buying it"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":900.116,"endTime":904.828,"body":"online or being in a library, you know?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":904.964,"endTime":906.108,"body":"Yeah. So how."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":906.164,"endTime":908.716,"body":"How involved are you in their strategic"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":908.748,"endTime":912.348,"body":"planning and, like, in the execution?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":908.748,"endTime":912.348,"body":"Do they kind of handle everything for you or"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":912.404,"endTime":914.854,"body":"are you, you know, speaking of those, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":912.404,"endTime":914.854,"body":"reviews?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":915.012,"endTime":916.786,"body":"It's obvious you're conscious of it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":916.858,"endTime":918.402,"body":"So are you working with them to be like, here"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":918.426,"endTime":923.282,"body":"are strategies we can use to accomplish our"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":918.426,"endTime":923.282,"body":"goals, or are they just kind of like, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":923.306,"endTime":924.738,"body":"know, updating you as."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":924.794,"endTime":925.87,"body":"As they work?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":926.65,"endTime":930.386,"body":"I would say maybe because of my"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":926.65,"endTime":930.386,"body":"background in public relations, we worked"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":930.418,"endTime":933.41,"body":"together at the beginning and kind of had an"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":930.418,"endTime":933.41,"body":"overarching game plan."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":933.45,"endTime":937.01,"body":"And then they send me weekly updates and I"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":933.45,"endTime":937.01,"body":"have, like, a spreadsheet where I can track"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":937.05,"endTime":937.49,"body":"things."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":937.61,"endTime":940.386,"body":"I do not read all the reviews in my book"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":937.61,"endTime":940.386,"body":"because you know, what would happen."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":940.458,"endTime":940.914,"body":"Oh, yes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":940.962,"endTime":941.294,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":941.362,"endTime":942.198,"body":"Oh, we talk."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":942.334,"endTime":943.558,"body":"Oh, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":943.734,"endTime":944.566,"body":"You know, my favorite."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":944.598,"endTime":945.222,"body":"My favorite is the one."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":945.246,"endTime":948.822,"body":"It's like I stayed up all night reading the"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":945.246,"endTime":948.822,"body":"book, but I just thought the characters were"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":948.846,"endTime":949.654,"body":"not that believable."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":949.702,"endTime":950.694,"body":"I was like, what?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":950.862,"endTime":951.69,"body":"Okay,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":952.35,"endTime":954.09,"body":"I just talk to you anymore."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":954.83,"endTime":955.93,"body":"Oh my God."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":956.43,"endTime":957.222,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":957.326,"endTime":958.134,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":958.222,"endTime":958.486,"body":"Gosh."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":958.518,"endTime":960.118,"body":"Okay, can question."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":960.254,"endTime":963.446,"body":"So you are in public relations and yet you"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":963.518,"endTime":966.47,"body":"hired someone in public to do your public"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":963.518,"endTime":966.47,"body":"relations."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":966.59,"endTime":968.998,"body":"Can you tell me about that?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":966.59,"endTime":968.998,"body":"Cause I think oftentimes people are like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":969.014,"endTime":969.734,"body":"well, you're an expert."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":969.782,"endTime":970.694,"body":"Like, you're an editor."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":970.742,"endTime":971.574,"body":"You don't need an editor."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":971.622,"endTime":972.502,"body":"You know, you're."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":972.646,"endTime":975.346,"body":"You're in PA pr, but you still need a PR"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":975.418,"endTime":975.698,"body":"person."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":975.754,"endTime":977.01,"body":"So, like, tell me about that."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":977.13,"endTime":981.202,"body":"Right. So. Well, one, the kind"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":977.13,"endTime":981.202,"body":"of public relations I do is crisis"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":981.266,"endTime":984.642,"body":"communication and reputation management and"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":981.266,"endTime":984.642,"body":"government affairs."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":984.706,"endTime":988.722,"body":"So I'm not as good at marketing, although I do"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":984.706,"endTime":988.722,"body":"do that."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":988.746,"endTime":989.554,"body":"But I think it's."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":989.602,"endTime":991.15,"body":"To me it's a little bit like,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":991.69,"endTime":992.498,"body":"you know, don't."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":992.514,"endTime":993.794,"body":"You shouldn't be a lawyer for yourself."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":993.842,"endTime":996.13,"body":"You know, I mean, I think you have to have"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":993.842,"endTime":996.13,"body":"some kind of separation."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":996.21,"endTime":1000.45,"body":"And also you need somebody to be honest with"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":996.21,"endTime":1000.45,"body":"you about what works and what doesn't and"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1000.49,"endTime":1002.722,"body":"what's okay to say and what's not okay to say."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1002.826,"endTime":1007.442,"body":"And I think it'd be very difficult as a writer"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1002.826,"endTime":1007.442,"body":"for me to market myself."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1007.506,"endTime":1008.434,"body":"It's really the worst."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1008.482,"endTime":1011.97,"body":"I mean, I was telling somebody, it's so"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1012.09,"endTime":1013.826,"body":"anticlimactic when you finish your books."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1013.858,"endTime":1014.05,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1014.09,"endTime":1015.138,"body":"Because what's the funnest part?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1015.194,"endTime":1018.066,"body":"Writing them in there with the people."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1018.138,"endTime":1019.154,"body":"I like my characters."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1019.202,"endTime":1020.082,"body":"I want to stay with them."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1020.106,"endTime":1022.194,"body":"And then you get done and then you have to go"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1022.282,"endTime":1023.778,"body":"sell your book to people."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1023.914,"endTime":1028.402,"body":"For me, at least it's, believe it or not, as"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1023.914,"endTime":1028.402,"body":"effusive and friendly as I am, it's hard to"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1028.426,"endTime":1029.464,"body":"want to sell yourself."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1029.562,"endTime":1030.508,"body":"Um, yeah."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1030.604,"endTime":1031.98,"body":"So I never considered it."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1032.02,"endTime":1034.62,"body":"Although I have occasionally gone to certain"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1034.66,"endTime":1037.34,"body":"reporters, like I've seen a certain story and"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1034.66,"endTime":1037.34,"body":"I've sent a reporter note saying,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1037.38,"endTime":1039.628,"body":"like, hey, guess what?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1037.38,"endTime":1039.628,"body":"Like, I wrote a book about this."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1039.684,"endTime":1041.612,"body":"I'm going to shamelessly like, promote it to"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1039.684,"endTime":1041.612,"body":"you."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1041.636,"endTime":1045.16,"body":"And you know, but I wouldn't want to have to"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1041.636,"endTime":1045.16,"body":"have that as a full time job."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1045.78,"endTime":1046.204,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1046.252,"endTime":1051.0,"body":"So, you know, but I do advocate"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1046.252,"endTime":1051.0,"body":"for myself when I need to."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1051.86,"endTime":1055.388,"body":"Good. I hope every author learns how"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1051.86,"endTime":1055.388,"body":"to do that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1055.524,"endTime":1056.172,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1056.316,"endTime":1057.308,"body":"And it's hard."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1057.364,"endTime":1058.108,"body":"It's really hard."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1058.164,"endTime":1060.884,"body":"It's hard to want to promote yourself."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1060.932,"endTime":1062.692,"body":"It's hard to know how also."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1062.796,"endTime":1067.028,"body":"So I, I think that's awesome that, that even"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1062.796,"endTime":1067.028,"body":"your publisher, like recommended I."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1067.084,"endTime":1070.484,"body":"You have so much experience in the arena that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1067.084,"endTime":1070.484,"body":"I. It sounds like you were aware that you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1070.492,"endTime":1072.116,"body":"wanted to do that anyway or."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1072.188,"endTime":1074.132,"body":"Or knew that you could rely on a service like"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1074.156,"endTime":1074.34,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1074.38,"endTime":1078.868,"body":"But it's cool that your hybrid publisher still"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1074.38,"endTime":1078.868,"body":"was like, hey, this is something that you can."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1079.004,"endTime":1080.836,"body":"You need to do or consider doing."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1080.988,"endTime":1083.396,"body":"Well, I don't know if every"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1080.988,"endTime":1083.396,"body":"writer knows this, and, Emily, I'm curious"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1083.428,"endTime":1085.17,"body":"about whether this is for you, but when, When."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1085.3,"endTime":1087.89,"body":"When we first start a book, in the process"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1088.19,"endTime":1092.39,"body":"with our publisher, we have to fill out"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1088.19,"endTime":1092.39,"body":"something called a tip sheet, which is like,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1092.51,"endTime":1093.766,"body":"what is your book?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1093.918,"endTime":1096.29,"body":"What are the other books that are like it?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1096.91,"endTime":1101.238,"body":"What are the comparative titles?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1096.91,"endTime":1101.238,"body":"What kind of TV shows would you compare it to?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1101.294,"endTime":1104.262,"body":"I mean, there's a significant amount of work"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1101.294,"endTime":1104.262,"body":"because, like, if you look at mine, they go"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1104.286,"endTime":1106.774,"body":"like, if you love True Blood, you'll love this"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1104.286,"endTime":1106.774,"body":"book or whatever."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1106.822,"endTime":1109.766,"body":"And if you like Discovery of Witches, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1106.822,"endTime":1109.766,"body":"like, yes, if you love Discovery of Witches,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1109.798,"endTime":1110.686,"body":"you should read my book."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1110.798,"endTime":1112.398,"body":"Cause I read discovery witches, like, 20"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1112.454,"endTime":1112.718,"body":"times."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1112.774,"endTime":1113.37,"body":"But."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1114.31,"endTime":1118.382,"body":"And then they say after, if you're not going"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1114.31,"endTime":1118.382,"body":"to market your book, if you're not going to"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1118.406,"endTime":1122.014,"body":"have any publicity, you need to tell Simon and"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1118.406,"endTime":1122.014,"body":"Schuster right now, because they're not going"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1122.022,"endTime":1125.454,"body":"to walk into a bookstore and, like, insist"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1122.022,"endTime":1125.454,"body":"that they buy your book if you're not going to"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1125.462,"endTime":1127.79,"body":"do anything to put somebody in the store."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1127.95,"endTime":1130.782,"body":"And again, this goes back to Emily, what you"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1127.95,"endTime":1130.782,"body":"were saying about a business decision."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1130.886,"endTime":1136.062,"body":"On some level, as much as you want to be"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1130.886,"endTime":1136.062,"body":"romantic, you got to be pragmatic about what"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1136.086,"endTime":1139.358,"body":"you're asking other people to do in your"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1136.086,"endTime":1139.358,"body":"service as a writer, particularly if you're"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1139.374,"endTime":1141.776,"body":"either through a traditional or a hybrid"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1139.374,"endTime":1141.776,"body":"publisher."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1141.888,"endTime":1143.264,"body":"It's their job to sell books."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1143.312,"endTime":1144.464,"body":"And I'm paying."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1144.592,"endTime":1145.968,"body":"I just got my first royalty check."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1145.984,"endTime":1147.44,"body":"And I assure you, it does not cover the cost"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1147.48,"endTime":1148.16,"body":"of what I'm doing."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1148.2,"endTime":1150.192,"body":"But there is a picture of me holding it up."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1150.216,"endTime":1151.456,"body":"But it's like, that's the."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1151.528,"endTime":1152.16,"body":"That was my job."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1152.2,"endTime":1153.488,"body":"My job was to sell these books."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1153.504,"endTime":1155.552,"body":"And in order to do that, I have to help people"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1155.736,"endTime":1156.128,"body":"sell."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1156.184,"endTime":1159.52,"body":"And so I think if you're really serious about"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1159.56,"endTime":1161.5,"body":"being a writer, on some level, you have to."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1161.8,"endTime":1164.832,"body":"You have to understand the things you need to"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1161.8,"endTime":1164.832,"body":"do for other people."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1165.016,"endTime":1166.82,"body":"So, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1167.32,"endTime":1169.792,"body":"yeah, I think that's always true."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1169.856,"endTime":1170.08,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1170.12,"endTime":1170.7,"body":"Like,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1171.48,"endTime":1176.544,"body":"if you're not willing to show up for your own"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1171.48,"endTime":1176.544,"body":"book, like, why would anybody else, even if"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1176.552,"endTime":1177.98,"body":"they paid you for it?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1179.16,"endTime":1182.752,"body":"And so I think there's a question of, you"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1179.16,"endTime":1182.752,"body":"know, how you show up."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1182.776,"endTime":1185.936,"body":"What's the best way to show up for you, you"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1182.776,"endTime":1185.936,"body":"know, those types of questions."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1185.968,"endTime":1187.872,"body":"But whether you can just go there."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1187.896,"endTime":1190.576,"body":"I think There are very few authors who could"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1187.896,"endTime":1190.576,"body":"just go hide."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1190.768,"endTime":1194.76,"body":"And even those authors, they're getting"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1190.768,"endTime":1194.76,"body":"pressure from,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1195.46,"endTime":1198.412,"body":"you know, their publishers to, to show up."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1198.596,"endTime":1199.56,"body":"So I think,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1200.42,"endTime":1204.812,"body":"yeah, unless you're lucky enough to be one of"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1200.42,"endTime":1204.812,"body":"the 1% that has that word of mouth."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1204.876,"endTime":1205.1,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1205.14,"endTime":1206.172,"body":"That catches fire."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1206.276,"endTime":1207.964,"body":"Like, you gotta show up for your books."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1208.012,"endTime":1208.62,"body":"And it's hard."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1208.66,"endTime":1214.044,"body":"And it's a universally hard experience, I"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1208.66,"endTime":1214.044,"body":"think on any publishing path, you finish the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1214.052,"endTime":1217.356,"body":"book, like you said, the fun part is over, and"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1214.052,"endTime":1217.356,"body":"now you have to go talk about it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1217.508,"endTime":1220.518,"body":"But, like, that's the only that, like, you"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1217.508,"endTime":1220.518,"body":"have to."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1220.574,"endTime":1223.814,"body":"That's like the baseline of what you have to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1220.574,"endTime":1223.814,"body":"be doing to get it in people's hands."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1223.942,"endTime":1227.174,"body":"You can't control what other people aren't"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1223.942,"endTime":1227.174,"body":"going to do."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1227.262,"endTime":1229.142,"body":"Even if you are traditionally published."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1229.206,"endTime":1231.462,"body":"Like, there's no guarantee of what your"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1231.486,"endTime":1234.198,"body":"publisher is going to, you know, how they're"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1231.486,"endTime":1234.198,"body":"going to show up for you."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1234.334,"endTime":1236.806,"body":"So the only guarantee is how you're going to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1234.334,"endTime":1236.806,"body":"show up for yourself."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1236.918,"endTime":1237.494,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1237.582,"endTime":1238.694,"body":"That's a good point."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1238.862,"endTime":1239.542,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1239.686,"endTime":1242.77,"body":"So I can switch us gears or switch our"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1239.686,"endTime":1242.77,"body":"gears for a second."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1243.23,"endTime":1248.408,"body":"This series that you're working on now through"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1243.23,"endTime":1248.408,"body":"the hybrid publisher is rereleased."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1248.574,"endTime":1251.108,"body":"So. And we've talked about how you've had to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1248.574,"endTime":1251.108,"body":"change things."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1251.164,"endTime":1256.932,"body":"But did you go directly to that publisher to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1251.164,"endTime":1256.932,"body":"pitch them or did you have an agent or what"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1256.956,"endTime":1258.884,"body":"was that like to get involved with them?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1258.972,"endTime":1260.052,"body":"No, I just submitted it."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1260.076,"endTime":1262.996,"body":"I mean, I think because I knew Brooke, the"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1263.068,"endTime":1265.716,"body":"publisher and founder, I had a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1263.068,"endTime":1265.716,"body":"an advantage."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1265.748,"endTime":1270.0,"body":"We had been on a couple panels about self"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1265.748,"endTime":1270.0,"body":"publishing years prior and I,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1270.7,"endTime":1275.152,"body":"I was introduced to somebody who had just"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1270.7,"endTime":1275.152,"body":"published a novel through Spark Press."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1275.276,"endTime":1276.392,"body":"Few mutual friends."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1276.496,"endTime":1277.32,"body":"So I have two friends."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1277.36,"endTime":1280.792,"body":"That one just actually published her first,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1277.36,"endTime":1280.792,"body":"her first book."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1280.896,"endTime":1286.84,"body":"It's actually like a. A nonfiction book about"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1280.896,"endTime":1286.84,"body":"sustainable ambition and how to, as a"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1286.88,"endTime":1288.552,"body":"professional, like, sustain your ambition."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1288.616,"endTime":1290.552,"body":"But she introduced me to her friend who had"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1290.576,"endTime":1293.176,"body":"just published a kind of techno thriller"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1290.576,"endTime":1293.176,"body":"through Spark Prize."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1293.208,"endTime":1295.704,"body":"And it reminded me, oh, I know Brooke."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1295.832,"endTime":1298.152,"body":"And so I just sent her a note showing up for"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1298.176,"endTime":1298.424,"body":"myself."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1298.472,"endTime":1298.824,"body":"Emily."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1298.872,"endTime":1303.73,"body":"I just sent her a note saying, hey, would you"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1298.872,"endTime":1303.73,"body":"be interested in helping me republish his"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1303.77,"endTime":1304.242,"body":"trilogy?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1304.306,"endTime":1306.514,"body":"I've got the third book, mostly finished."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1306.562,"endTime":1307.746,"body":"It's finished now."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1307.898,"endTime":1311.922,"body":"And we took the books and reviewed them and"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1307.898,"endTime":1311.922,"body":"said, yeah, we'll take it on."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1312.106,"endTime":1314.946,"body":"So that was the beginning of the process."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1315.018,"endTime":1316.91,"body":"And that was, you know,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1317.37,"endTime":1318.578,"body":"more than a year ago, I guess."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1318.594,"endTime":1320.162,"body":"It's two, it's almost two years now at this"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1320.186,"endTime":1323.794,"body":"point because we had to get the others"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1320.186,"endTime":1323.794,"body":"rewritten and change the title."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1323.842,"endTime":1325.762,"body":"And the COVID and then the gift."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1325.826,"endTime":1328.59,"body":"And now the third book, the campaign is in"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1325.826,"endTime":1328.59,"body":"its."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1329.34,"endTime":1332.148,"body":"I just have the first pages back and I'm"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1329.34,"endTime":1332.148,"body":"editing them right now."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1332.284,"endTime":1332.676,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1332.708,"endTime":1334.276,"body":"I was going to ask about timeline."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1334.388,"endTime":1334.996,"body":"So when you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1335.068,"endTime":1337.348,"body":"When you approached Spark Press, did you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1335.068,"endTime":1337.348,"body":"already have."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1337.404,"endTime":1337.732,"body":"Did you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1337.756,"endTime":1340.964,"body":"Had you already taken another pass on editing"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1341.092,"endTime":1342.9,"body":"the finished manuscripts of the first one?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1342.94,"endTime":1347.284,"body":"Or was it like, I know I. This probably needs"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1342.94,"endTime":1347.284,"body":"to be done, or let's read."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1347.452,"endTime":1351.06,"body":"I hadn't done any editing of the"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1347.452,"endTime":1351.06,"body":"first two books, so they came back to me."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1351.1,"endTime":1354.388,"body":"And, yeah, it was a. It was a. It was a trip."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1354.564,"endTime":1358.912,"body":"Yeah. What was that like to be like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1354.564,"endTime":1358.912,"body":"these are done books and then here are all"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1358.936,"endTime":1360.02,"body":"these notes."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1361.88,"endTime":1368.08,"body":"So I wrote the first book in the"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1361.88,"endTime":1368.08,"body":"second book, and then I spent five years"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1368.12,"endTime":1369.66,"body":"working on 48 states,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1370.04,"endTime":1373.376,"body":"which was a kind of an accidental"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1370.04,"endTime":1373.376,"body":"interruption."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1373.488,"endTime":1375.04,"body":"I had been introduced to an agent."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1375.12,"endTime":1376.736,"body":"She wasn't interested in that series."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1376.808,"endTime":1379.472,"body":"She asked me if I had first pages of another"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1376.808,"endTime":1379.472,"body":"novel I was working on."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1379.496,"endTime":1380.656,"body":"I gave her 48 states."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1380.728,"endTime":1382.176,"body":"She said she liked it, she wanted to publish"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1382.208,"endTime":1382.592,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1382.696,"endTime":1383.6,"body":"I finished the book."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1383.64,"endTime":1384.576,"body":"She wouldn't take it."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1384.648,"endTime":1387.584,"body":"And then I submitted it to a couple writing"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1387.632,"endTime":1388.096,"body":"contests."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1388.128,"endTime":1389.232,"body":"I got really good feedback."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1389.296,"endTime":1391.984,"body":"I fired my old editor, I hired a new one, and"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1391.992,"endTime":1393.536,"body":"I took it through extensive revisions."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1393.568,"endTime":1395.984,"body":"And at the same time, my dad had dementia."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1396.032,"endTime":1396.96,"body":"I was taking care of him."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1397.0,"endTime":1398.864,"body":"I had a teenager getting into high school, so"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1398.872,"endTime":1400.592,"body":"it was like a long hiatus."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1400.736,"endTime":1403.632,"body":"And then I started working on the third book"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1403.656,"endTime":1404.74,"body":"in the trilogy."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1405.24,"endTime":1408.608,"body":"And the reason I'm saying this is in the"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1405.24,"endTime":1408.608,"body":"middle of all this, I wrote 48 states."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1408.664,"endTime":1410.096,"body":"I got a star review from Kirkus."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1410.128,"endTime":1411.504,"body":"It was named one of the best indie books of"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1411.512,"endTime":1411.76,"body":"the year."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1411.8,"endTime":1414.282,"body":"And now I have to go back to one of the first"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1411.8,"endTime":1414.282,"body":"novels I ever wrote."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1414.376,"endTime":1414.646,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1414.678,"endTime":1417.638,"body":"And I'm looking at it and I'm"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1414.678,"endTime":1417.638,"body":"like, this is the first one of the first."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1417.694,"endTime":1420.13,"body":"You know, everything about it is like,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1420.83,"endTime":1425.254,"body":"you know, it's like my writing isn't as tight,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1420.83,"endTime":1425.254,"body":"my observations aren't as crisp."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1425.302,"endTime":1427.702,"body":"And so I'm going through it and there's only"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1425.302,"endTime":1427.702,"body":"so much."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1427.726,"endTime":1429.606,"body":"It's not going to go through an entire"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1427.726,"endTime":1429.606,"body":"developmental edit."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1429.638,"endTime":1431.462,"body":"So it was a little bit painful, to be honest."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1431.526,"endTime":1434.774,"body":"I. It was like it made me nervous re releasing"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1434.822,"endTime":1435.462,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1435.646,"endTime":1437.11,"body":"Kirkus didn't like it that much."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1437.15,"endTime":1437.926,"body":"I'm just being totally honest."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1437.958,"endTime":1439.75,"body":"And I'm like, yeah, I bet they feel like I"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1437.958,"endTime":1439.75,"body":"went back in time."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1439.79,"endTime":1441.286,"body":"So I regressed in time."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1441.358,"endTime":1441.542,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1441.566,"endTime":1446.254,"body":"Because it looks like my writing is actually"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1441.566,"endTime":1446.254,"body":"not as tight as it is second book, better."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1446.422,"endTime":1450.222,"body":"And now my, you know, now I Come to my third"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1446.422,"endTime":1450.222,"body":"book and it's like, this is where my writing"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1450.286,"endTime":1450.99,"body":"really is now."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1451.03,"endTime":1452.926,"body":"Because now you're five, six novels in,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1452.998,"endTime":1453.89,"body":"obviously,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1454.31,"endTime":1460.414,"body":"Night and Day in terms of my command and what"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1454.31,"endTime":1460.414,"body":"I expect of myself and what I can do so is a"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1460.422,"endTime":1461.47,"body":"little bit painful."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1461.63,"endTime":1464.222,"body":"There are moments of deep vulnerability that I"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1464.246,"endTime":1466.398,"body":"was sort of like, should I have done this?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1466.454,"endTime":1468.798,"body":"But I had to do it this way."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1468.854,"endTime":1469.294,"body":"I can't."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1469.342,"endTime":1471.806,"body":"You can't just sell one book in a trilogy to a"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1469.342,"endTime":1471.806,"body":"publisher."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1471.838,"endTime":1473.23,"body":"You have to make the whole thing work."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1473.27,"endTime":1474.11,"body":"So, so,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1474.81,"endTime":1476.002,"body":"but it's like one of these things."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1476.026,"endTime":1477.378,"body":"Later I'm going to be on a panel and they're"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1477.394,"endTime":1480.114,"body":"going to be like, you know, read something"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1477.394,"endTime":1480.114,"body":"that was lame."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1480.162,"endTime":1482.482,"body":"Now that you know you're writing so great,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1480.162,"endTime":1482.482,"body":"you're going to be like, well, the first book"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1482.506,"endTime":1484.242,"body":"wasn't lame, but it was just plotting."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1484.306,"endTime":1485.01,"body":"It was different."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1485.13,"endTime":1485.986,"body":"And it's also."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1486.138,"endTime":1488.706,"body":"You're going up to take people into a trilogy."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1488.738,"endTime":1491.122,"body":"And so you've got all this work you have to do"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1491.146,"endTime":1492.99,"body":"to move them into that place."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1493.85,"endTime":1498.066,"body":"This book is a tight little kind of speed car."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1498.138,"endTime":1499.762,"body":"And then the third book is just like an"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1499.786,"endTime":1500.072,"body":"exception."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1500.086,"endTime":1502.772,"body":"Explosive, like concussion."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1502.836,"endTime":1503.716,"body":"You know, it's, it's."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1503.748,"endTime":1504.308,"body":"And it's fun."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1504.364,"endTime":1505.764,"body":"It's one of the best things I've ever written."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1505.812,"endTime":1507.316,"body":"I'm really excited about it."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1507.468,"endTime":1510.132,"body":"But it's been humbling to go back and in some"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1510.156,"endTime":1513.028,"body":"ways gratifying because I, I did learn, I did"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1510.156,"endTime":1513.028,"body":"get better."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1513.164,"endTime":1513.572,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1513.636,"endTime":1518.82,"body":"But I got a better editor who I"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1513.636,"endTime":1518.82,"body":"love, who really helped me to become a better"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1518.86,"endTime":1519.556,"body":"writer."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1519.748,"endTime":1521.0,"body":"Mercilessly."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1521.66,"endTime":1522.164,"body":"That's."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1522.212,"endTime":1523.54,"body":"That's what a good editor does."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1523.58,"endTime":1524.452,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1524.516,"endTime":1525.16,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1525.5,"endTime":1529.374,"body":"Yeah. I don't think we've said the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1525.5,"endTime":1529.374,"body":"name of the, of the books in order, so I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1529.382,"endTime":1530.526,"body":"wanted to say them to everybody."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1530.558,"endTime":1532.302,"body":"The others, the gift and the campaign."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1532.406,"endTime":1532.83,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1532.87,"endTime":1533.95,"body":"Those are the three books."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1534.03,"endTime":1538.302,"body":"Awesome. Called the Council"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1534.03,"endTime":1538.302,"body":"Trilogy because the Council is the name of the"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1538.326,"endTime":1545.022,"body":"secret society of witches and vampires based"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1538.326,"endTime":1545.022,"body":"in San Francisco that they interfere in"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1545.046,"endTime":1551.01,"body":"politics to save the world from nationalism"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1545.046,"endTime":1551.01,"body":"and xenophobia and sorry to say, it's fiction."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1552.71,"endTime":1553.47,"body":"Sorry."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1553.63,"endTime":1556.126,"body":"Or yeah, that's the way we go."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1556.198,"endTime":1556.81,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1557.91,"endTime":1560.25,"body":"But I think the books are."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1560.63,"endTime":1564.222,"body":"I started writing the books because I was"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1560.63,"endTime":1564.222,"body":"frustrated with how hard it was to be a"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1564.246,"endTime":1567.134,"body":"political consultant in a male dominated"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1564.246,"endTime":1567.134,"body":"society."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1567.262,"endTime":1572.702,"body":"And I was contemplating and struggling with"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1567.262,"endTime":1572.702,"body":"how women derive their power and how they"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1572.726,"endTime":1573.23,"body":"maintain it."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1573.27,"endTime":1577.134,"body":"And in fact, if you look at all of my writing,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1573.27,"endTime":1577.134,"body":"it's really a lot about women leaders, what it"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1577.142,"endTime":1582.052,"body":"means to be a woman leader, how do we do it,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1577.142,"endTime":1582.052,"body":"how do we reconcile the other parts of"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1582.076,"endTime":1584.692,"body":"ourselves, the parts of us that are mothers,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1582.076,"endTime":1584.692,"body":"the parts of us that are wives,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1584.756,"endTime":1585.652,"body":"lovers, whatever."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1585.716,"endTime":1588.532,"body":"And it's a fascinating journey, and I never"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1588.556,"endTime":1591.236,"body":"get tired of writing about it, you know, and."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1591.308,"endTime":1594.532,"body":"And how we mess it up and get it back and, you"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1594.556,"endTime":1595.988,"body":"know, what we do with it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1596.124,"endTime":1599.572,"body":"Yes. I think I'll always write about"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1596.124,"endTime":1599.572,"body":"women gaining power."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1599.676,"endTime":1603.524,"body":"I think that's just next 10 books I've got"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1599.676,"endTime":1603.524,"body":"planned."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1603.572,"endTime":1604.42,"body":"That's all they are."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1604.54,"endTime":1606.736,"body":"Yeah. And I think women enjoy"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1604.54,"endTime":1606.736,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1606.828,"endTime":1607.208,"body":"I think."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1607.264,"endTime":1607.816,"body":"I think men."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1607.888,"endTime":1609.72,"body":"I think men, you know, enjoy reading about it,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1607.888,"endTime":1609.72,"body":"too."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1609.76,"endTime":1613.24,"body":"I don't want to leave them out, but I think"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1609.76,"endTime":1613.24,"body":"more than ever, I think women like it and they"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1613.28,"endTime":1614.024,"body":"need it, and it's."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1614.072,"endTime":1615.096,"body":"It's empowering."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1615.288,"endTime":1616.568,"body":"Yeah. Yeah, I agree."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1616.704,"endTime":1617.48,"body":"So when you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1617.6,"endTime":1620.952,"body":"When you went to Spark Press a year ago, and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1617.6,"endTime":1620.952,"body":"then the first book was rereleased in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1620.976,"endTime":1626.792,"body":"September, so was that like six months or a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1620.976,"endTime":1626.792,"body":"little bit longer than that to, like, get all"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1626.816,"endTime":1630.264,"body":"the edits complete on the others and get, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1626.816,"endTime":1630.264,"body":"know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1630.272,"endTime":1633.192,"body":"the new cover?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1630.272,"endTime":1633.192,"body":"I mean, that must also been so exciting to,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1633.216,"endTime":1634.312,"body":"like, have a brand new cover."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1634.416,"endTime":1636.54,"body":"It was, and it was really"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1634.416,"endTime":1636.54,"body":"exciting."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1637.04,"endTime":1642.02,"body":"Six to eight months, probably, and then a"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1637.04,"endTime":1642.02,"body":"little bit faster for the gift."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1642.1,"endTime":1643.508,"body":"Maybe six months."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1643.564,"endTime":1647.092,"body":"And around the same six or seven months for"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1647.116,"endTime":1647.92,"body":"the campaign."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1648.54,"endTime":1653.172,"body":"I. I needed to finish that book, and I was in"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1648.54,"endTime":1653.172,"body":"the middle of doing these two, so it put a lot"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1653.196,"endTime":1656.76,"body":"of pressure on me to, like, you know, get my"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1653.196,"endTime":1656.76,"body":"act in gear."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1657.74,"endTime":1658.48,"body":"But,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1659.42,"endTime":1661.22,"body":"you know, there's a little bit of wiggle room."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1661.26,"endTime":1665.314,"body":"But so it's September, March, September, in"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1665.322,"endTime":1669.714,"body":"terms of the books releases, and I thought"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1665.322,"endTime":1669.714,"body":"that was good for them because, you know, if"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1669.722,"endTime":1671.25,"body":"you really like a book series, then you're"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1669.722,"endTime":1671.25,"body":"looking."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1671.29,"endTime":1673.922,"body":"You're like, what, I have to wait, like, two"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1671.29,"endTime":1673.922,"body":"years for this book to come?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1673.946,"endTime":1676.53,"body":"I don't want to do that, you know, So I was"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1673.946,"endTime":1676.53,"body":"kind of."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1676.57,"endTime":1680.786,"body":"I wanted to give people a fast fix in case"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1676.57,"endTime":1680.786,"body":"they were really, you know, interested."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1680.978,"endTime":1681.99,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1682.33,"endTime":1683.47,"body":"Have you found."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1684.41,"endTime":1684.93,"body":"So we."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1684.97,"endTime":1686.466,"body":"Before we started recording, we were talking"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1686.498,"endTime":1689.01,"body":"about, like, the juggling of the day job."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1689.13,"endTime":1689.41,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1689.45,"endTime":1689.938,"body":"With."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1690.074,"endTime":1691.91,"body":"With the whole author journey."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1692.73,"endTime":1697.644,"body":"What has been, like, your experience with your"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1692.73,"endTime":1697.644,"body":"publisher kind of being aware of that?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1697.732,"endTime":1700.14,"body":"I mean, I. Life happens."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1700.22,"endTime":1700.604,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1700.692,"endTime":1704.892,"body":"And have you had a positive experience with"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1700.692,"endTime":1704.892,"body":"life happening with Sparkbrush?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1704.956,"endTime":1706.268,"body":"Yeah, no, they've been"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1704.956,"endTime":1706.268,"body":"wonderful."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1706.364,"endTime":1708.876,"body":"They've been wonderful, and they've been very"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1706.364,"endTime":1708.876,"body":"understanding."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1708.988,"endTime":1713.676,"body":"I mean, look, I'm pretty disciplined, and if I"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1708.988,"endTime":1713.676,"body":"can't make a deadline, I give them a long"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1713.748,"endTime":1714.636,"body":"window."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1714.828,"endTime":1719.852,"body":"Like, I sent one of those I'm really sorry"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1714.828,"endTime":1719.852,"body":"notes a few days ago about not Getting my"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1719.876,"endTime":1720.86,"body":"first pages back to them."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1720.9,"endTime":1722.65,"body":"I'm going to finish it tonight, I swear."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1722.82,"endTime":1728.238,"body":"Um, but I sold my company in July after 25"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1722.82,"endTime":1728.238,"body":"years and I'm still working for them."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1728.294,"endTime":1731.79,"body":"But I. Not that I thought I was going to"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1728.294,"endTime":1731.79,"body":"retire, but I kind of thought I'd be like,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1731.83,"endTime":1733.278,"body":"have a little bit of a lighter workload."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1733.294,"endTime":1734.958,"body":"And that didn't turn out to be true."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1735.134,"endTime":1737.902,"body":"And so I'm just working like 15 hour days."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1738.006,"endTime":1743.758,"body":"Um, but this goes back to sort of like if you"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1738.006,"endTime":1743.758,"body":"make a decision to be a writer, this is my"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1743.814,"endTime":1745.006,"body":"commitment to myself."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1745.118,"endTime":1747.566,"body":"And so I was up until midnight last night."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1747.638,"endTime":1750.27,"body":"I will stay up until whatever time I need."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1750.39,"endTime":1752.958,"body":"I don't, you know, I know there's like a lot"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1750.39,"endTime":1752.958,"body":"of romantic stuff about writers."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1752.974,"endTime":1756.274,"body":"I don't drink, even at dinner if I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1752.974,"endTime":1756.274,"body":"write later on."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1756.362,"endTime":1761.682,"body":"I mean, when I'm writing, I'm writing and I"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1756.362,"endTime":1761.682,"body":"usually start with some kind of like writing"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1761.746,"endTime":1762.146,"body":"exercise."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1762.178,"endTime":1765.058,"body":"I'll write a letter or I'll do some reading or"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1762.178,"endTime":1765.058,"body":"research or something."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1765.114,"endTime":1768.53,"body":"But you know, I just, this is what I made a"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1765.114,"endTime":1768.53,"body":"commitment to do."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1768.57,"endTime":1771.042,"body":"I've given up going on vacation."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1771.106,"endTime":1774.034,"body":"I've been in the house while my family was"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1771.106,"endTime":1774.034,"body":"skiing."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1774.082,"endTime":1776.194,"body":"I've, I've not watched television."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1776.242,"endTime":1778.018,"body":"I don't know the first thing about some parts"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1778.034,"endTime":1778.754,"body":"of modern culture."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1778.802,"endTime":1779.95,"body":"Like I'm, you know,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1780.29,"endTime":1782.17,"body":"but that's my, that's what I did."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1782.21,"endTime":1783.226,"body":"I made that decision."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1783.378,"endTime":1787.93,"body":"And honestly, if you asked me if I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1783.378,"endTime":1787.93,"body":"stay home and work on a new novel or like go"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1787.97,"endTime":1790.266,"body":"out, I would stay home and work on it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1790.418,"endTime":1793.514,"body":"Like I, Every time, every time, I"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1790.418,"endTime":1793.514,"body":"don't."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1793.562,"endTime":1796.522,"body":"I mean, I'm worried sometimes"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1793.562,"endTime":1796.522,"body":"that I'm like, you know, and I want to be like"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1796.546,"endTime":1799.626,"body":"Charles Schultz and live in my room the entire"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1796.546,"endTime":1799.626,"body":"time with the band in my family."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1799.698,"endTime":1803.354,"body":"Sometimes I say to my husband because, you"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1799.698,"endTime":1803.354,"body":"know, my daughter's grown and he's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1803.362,"endTime":1806.106,"body":"he, he could watch the warriors game without"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1803.362,"endTime":1806.106,"body":"me or the Giant, whatever."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1806.138,"endTime":1806.858,"body":"And I'm like, I can't."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1806.874,"endTime":1808.314,"body":"I'm going up to my writer studio."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1808.362,"endTime":1809.306,"body":"Like, I'll see you later."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1809.378,"endTime":1814.278,"body":"So I try to balance it and not be too much of"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1809.378,"endTime":1814.278,"body":"a hermit, but I, I love it, you know, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1814.294,"endTime":1815.69,"body":"willing to make the commitment."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1816.03,"endTime":1820.678,"body":"So. And they're great and I think Spark Press"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1816.03,"endTime":1820.678,"body":"is great and I think they empower women."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1820.734,"endTime":1824.47,"body":"And you know, they started off as mostly like"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1820.734,"endTime":1824.47,"body":"a memoir publishing, but there's a lot of non"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1824.51,"endTime":1829.206,"body":"traditional authors and women who are older"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1824.51,"endTime":1829.206,"body":"who have been able to publish their books."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1829.238,"endTime":1831.286,"body":"And I just, I think that's Fabulous."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1831.398,"endTime":1833.382,"body":"You know, you can imagine you're 60, 70 years"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1833.406,"endTime":1835.99,"body":"old and you finally get a novel out that you"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1833.406,"endTime":1835.99,"body":"always wanted to."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1836.03,"endTime":1838.478,"body":"I mean, my hat's off to them and what they've"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1836.03,"endTime":1838.478,"body":"done."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1838.574,"endTime":1840.35,"body":"Um, I think it's super impressive."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1840.51,"endTime":1841.79,"body":"Yeah, that's awesome."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1841.95,"endTime":1843.534,"body":"Yeah, it sounds like this."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1843.622,"endTime":1848.03,"body":"I know a couple authors that have hybrid"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1843.622,"endTime":1848.03,"body":"published and it just sounds a lot more"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1848.07,"endTime":1854.302,"body":"accessible and like they're finding writers"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1848.07,"endTime":1854.302,"body":"along that same vein that like, probably"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1854.366,"endTime":1858.43,"body":"wouldn't get selected in the traditional"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1854.366,"endTime":1858.43,"body":"route, but want a little more hands on"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1858.47,"endTime":1860.254,"body":"approach than self publishing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1860.302,"endTime":1862.126,"body":"And so this is a good option."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1862.158,"endTime":1864.638,"body":"I mean, this is like the ideal state really,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1864.694,"endTime":1872.844,"body":"to get a story out that needs to be heard and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1864.694,"endTime":1872.844,"body":"also to offer you a little more help than you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1872.852,"endTime":1875.404,"body":"know, because self publishing can be so"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1872.852,"endTime":1875.404,"body":"isolating."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1875.532,"endTime":1879.548,"body":"But yeah, well, I mean, I think,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1875.532,"endTime":1879.548,"body":"yeah, I love self publishing."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1879.564,"endTime":1883.916,"body":"I hope to one day take my, my imprint, Flesh"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1879.564,"endTime":1883.916,"body":"and Bone and actually like publish other women"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1883.988,"endTime":1884.46,"body":"writers."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1884.54,"endTime":1885.5,"body":"That's one day."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1885.54,"endTime":1889.596,"body":"My dream will be to help do something a little"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1885.54,"endTime":1889.596,"body":"bit more advanced that's not in the cards"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1889.628,"endTime":1889.932,"body":"right now."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1889.956,"endTime":1891.02,"body":"So I don't have the time."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1891.06,"endTime":1893.4,"body":"But I really feel like,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1893.78,"endTime":1897.932,"body":"you know, the way we communicate our stories"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1893.78,"endTime":1897.932,"body":"and tell our stories is going to keep"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1897.956,"endTime":1898.38,"body":"changing."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1898.46,"endTime":1900.86,"body":"And that's the fun part of the Internet."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1900.94,"endTime":1903.804,"body":"The bad part of it is I still think, I think"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1900.94,"endTime":1903.804,"body":"social media is the devil."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1903.852,"endTime":1907.884,"body":"Like, I hate that I have to go on and sort of"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1903.852,"endTime":1907.884,"body":"tap dance for my dinner, but I'm willing to do"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1907.892,"endTime":1908.204,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1908.292,"endTime":1908.844,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1908.972,"endTime":1912.252,"body":"Like, do people really want to see me"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1908.972,"endTime":1912.252,"body":"wandering through Golden Gate park, like,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1912.276,"endTime":1914.844,"body":"pointing out things that are in the, in the"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1912.276,"endTime":1914.844,"body":"trilogy?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1914.892,"endTime":1915.98,"body":"Apparently some people do."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1916.02,"endTime":1917.468,"body":"I don't want to, I don't want to denigrate,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1917.484,"endTime":1918.374,"body":"but it's like, it just."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1918.492,"endTime":1920.242,"body":"Is that really what people want or do they"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1920.266,"endTime":1922.866,"body":"want me just to keep writing more interesting"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1920.266,"endTime":1922.866,"body":"things that they can consider?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1923.018,"endTime":1927.762,"body":"So I, I sometimes I wish I could go back in"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1923.018,"endTime":1927.762,"body":"time and like, get rid of Instagram."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1927.826,"endTime":1928.75,"body":"I'm just saying."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1932.09,"endTime":1933.378,"body":"Social media is hard."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1933.514,"endTime":1935.762,"body":"Oh, I feel that it is hard."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1935.866,"endTime":1940.402,"body":"But as we've said already, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1935.866,"endTime":1940.402,"body":"if you want your books to be read, you have to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1940.426,"endTime":1941.922,"body":"show up to tell people to read them."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1942.026,"endTime":1944.106,"body":"Otherwise no one will read them."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1944.218,"endTime":1947.882,"body":"Yeah, but when somebody like out"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1944.218,"endTime":1947.882,"body":"of the blue contacts me and says they really"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1947.906,"endTime":1951.994,"body":"like my book or they really enjoyed it, it"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1947.906,"endTime":1951.994,"body":"makes me really happy and I love it."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1952.082,"endTime":1958.522,"body":"And in fact, just a weirdo thing, I once used"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1952.082,"endTime":1958.522,"body":"to use my garage as a polling place and you"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1958.546,"endTime":1961.722,"body":"know, in my email signature there's always"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1958.546,"endTime":1961.722,"body":"like a little thing that says, like, read my"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1961.746,"endTime":1962.554,"body":"next novel or Whatever."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1962.602,"endTime":1967.626,"body":"And one day I got a phone call from the, you"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1962.602,"endTime":1967.626,"body":"know, the official number of the elections"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1967.658,"endTime":1971.176,"body":"department for San Francisco, but, and I said,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1967.658,"endTime":1971.176,"body":"like, there's no election."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1971.248,"endTime":1971.672,"body":"What's going on?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1971.696,"endTime":1974.9,"body":"You're like, oh, no, no, I, I just want to"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1971.696,"endTime":1974.9,"body":"know when is the next book in your."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1976.0,"endTime":1979.416,"body":"I was like, okay, you just want to know how"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1976.0,"endTime":1979.416,"body":"you're going to pick up a reader."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1979.448,"endTime":1979.736,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1979.808,"endTime":1981.752,"body":"So, like, that was my, that was my little"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1981.776,"endTime":1984.312,"body":"claim to fame as the polling place for the"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1981.776,"endTime":1984.312,"body":"city of San Francisco."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1984.376,"endTime":1985.22,"body":"So there you go."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1986.32,"endTime":1987.34,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":1988.0,"endTime":1989.1,"body":"That's awesome."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1989.84,"endTime":1993.976,"body":"Well, so one of the other notes that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1989.84,"endTime":1993.976,"body":"we were going to talk about today is author"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1994.048,"endTime":1996.088,"body":"responsibilities within a hybrid publisher."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1996.104,"endTime":1997.272,"body":"And I think you already touched on that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1997.296,"endTime":2001.582,"body":"But is there anything else that we haven't"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1997.296,"endTime":2001.582,"body":"already talked about that, you know, reader or"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2001.606,"endTime":2004.45,"body":"authors should be aware of if they want to go"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2001.606,"endTime":2004.45,"body":"down this route?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2005.11,"endTime":2007.214,"body":"No, I, I, I do, I do think we"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2005.11,"endTime":2007.214,"body":"talked about it."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2007.222,"endTime":2012.462,"body":"I mean, I, I think that the unique, the fact"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2007.222,"endTime":2012.462,"body":"that it's a hybrid is a business decision in"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2012.486,"endTime":2013.438,"body":"terms of what you pay."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2013.494,"endTime":2017.086,"body":"But in all other respects, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2013.494,"endTime":2017.086,"body":"identical to having a traditional publisher."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2017.118,"endTime":2020.75,"body":"I mean, you have deadlines, you have"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2017.118,"endTime":2020.75,"body":"expectations about the quality of your work,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2020.79,"endTime":2023.13,"body":"you have expectations about marketing your"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2020.79,"endTime":2023.13,"body":"book,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2023.51,"endTime":2026.706,"body":"you know, what you do and how you interact"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2023.51,"endTime":2026.706,"body":"with the public."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2026.778,"endTime":2030.562,"body":"I mean, I, I've seen writers fired from this"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2026.778,"endTime":2030.562,"body":"hybrid press for, like, getting in fights with"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2030.586,"endTime":2031.986,"body":"people on, you know, TikTok or whatever."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2032.018,"endTime":2036.306,"body":"I mean, so it isn't self publishing."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2036.338,"endTime":2037.954,"body":"Also, shouldn't, it's not a hobby."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2038.002,"endTime":2040.99,"body":"If you're deciding to publish a book and put"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2038.002,"endTime":2040.99,"body":"it out there,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2041.69,"endTime":2045.234,"body":"you need to come with a set of expectations"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2041.69,"endTime":2045.234,"body":"about what you expect from yourself and the"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2045.242,"endTime":2046.53,"body":"quality of what you're putting out there."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2046.57,"endTime":2049.09,"body":"Unless you want people to know you for a book"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2049.13,"endTime":2050.082,"body":"that has a typo in it."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2050.106,"endTime":2052.44,"body":"And I just don't, I don't think that's what"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2050.106,"endTime":2052.44,"body":"writers want."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2052.61,"endTime":2053.5,"body":"They don't."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2053.66,"endTime":2053.98,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2054.02,"endTime":2057.772,"body":"You know, you want people to"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2054.02,"endTime":2057.772,"body":"love our work and not be distracted by, you"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2057.796,"endTime":2060.38,"body":"know, whatever is in there if it's"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2057.796,"endTime":2060.38,"body":"distracting."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2060.54,"endTime":2062.796,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2062.988,"endTime":2064.92,"body":"What was the process of."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2065.78,"endTime":2067.516,"body":"You said you had to, like, apply."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2067.628,"endTime":2069.884,"body":"Like, was there, like, what's the process at"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2069.892,"endTime":2071.612,"body":"the end?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2069.892,"endTime":2071.612,"body":"It sounds like maybe it was unique for you"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2071.636,"endTime":2072.572,"body":"because you knew."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2072.716,"endTime":2074.14,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I think already."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2074.18,"endTime":2078.492,"body":"But they review your manuscript"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2074.18,"endTime":2078.492,"body":"and they decide whether or not it's a, of the"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2078.516,"endTime":2081.996,"body":"caliber that they would want to have in their"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2078.516,"endTime":2081.996,"body":"publishing library."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2082.108,"endTime":2088.151,"body":"And then I think for some people, they may be"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2082.108,"endTime":2088.151,"body":"asked to do further developmental edits or"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2088.175,"endTime":2092.279,"body":"they would be put into, you know, just a line"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2088.175,"endTime":2092.279,"body":"edit the way that I was."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2092.319,"endTime":2095.447,"body":"But even, like, even in my third book."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2095.503,"endTime":2097.399,"body":"So these books are in English and in French"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2097.479,"endTime":2100.439,"body":"because there's a main character who's a witch"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2097.479,"endTime":2100.439,"body":"who's French and it turns out that his"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2100.479,"endTime":2101.191,"body":"daughter is."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2101.295,"endTime":2105.159,"body":"Anyway, there's a lot of French language going"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2101.295,"endTime":2105.159,"body":"on and there's a little bit of Serbian and"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2105.199,"endTime":2106.439,"body":"other languages in the second book."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2106.479,"endTime":2108.359,"body":"But in the third book there was some"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2108.399,"endTime":2110.533,"body":"complicated French language structure."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2110.671,"endTime":2114.89,"body":"And so I had to hire like a second proofreader"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2110.671,"endTime":2114.89,"body":"who was French."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2115.05,"endTime":2117.626,"body":"So just that ended up being an extra expense"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2115.05,"endTime":2117.626,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2117.698,"endTime":2119.53,"body":"Because we didn't really foresee it."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2119.57,"endTime":2120.55,"body":"But the,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2121.57,"endTime":2122.63,"body":"you know, there."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2122.93,"endTime":2125.226,"body":"It was either that or somebody who was French"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2125.258,"endTime":2128.602,"body":"is going to read it and tell me that my"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2125.258,"endTime":2128.602,"body":"grammar was wrong or the census, you know."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2128.626,"endTime":2130.63,"body":"So I think,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2131.73,"endTime":2134.922,"body":"I think that they wouldn't just take your"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2131.73,"endTime":2134.922,"body":"first novel."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2134.986,"endTime":2136.378,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2134.986,"endTime":2136.378,"body":"You have to have some."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2136.434,"endTime":2140.624,"body":"You have to either have a track record as a"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2136.434,"endTime":2140.624,"body":"published author, or I think you have to have"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2140.632,"endTime":2142.784,"body":"a manuscript that meets their expectations."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2142.912,"endTime":2146.608,"body":"And I assume that if it wasn't Brooke, there"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2142.912,"endTime":2146.608,"body":"must be like a committee of people who review"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2146.664,"endTime":2146.832,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2146.856,"endTime":2149.664,"body":"But I happened to luck out by just busting"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2149.712,"endTime":2151.696,"body":"down the door to the publisher herself."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2151.888,"endTime":2156.672,"body":"But I have no doubt in my mind that if, if, if"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2151.888,"endTime":2156.672,"body":"Brooke had not liked those books, she would"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2156.696,"endTime":2158.864,"body":"have said no or go back and fix them or"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2156.696,"endTime":2158.864,"body":"whatever."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2158.912,"endTime":2164.736,"body":"She had no reason to be nice to me at the"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2158.912,"endTime":2164.736,"body":"expense of the reputation of her publishing"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2164.768,"endTime":2165.146,"body":"house."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2165.248,"endTime":2165.75,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2165.83,"endTime":2166.69,"body":"It's a business."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2166.99,"endTime":2167.846,"body":"It is."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2167.998,"endTime":2172.37,"body":"And you gotta, as hard as it is, if somebody"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2167.998,"endTime":2172.37,"body":"rejects your book,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2172.75,"endTime":2177.702,"body":"if you can find a way to figure out what it is"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2172.75,"endTime":2177.702,"body":"that you're doing that you could fix the."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2177.726,"endTime":2178.45,"body":"I mean,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2178.91,"endTime":2182.01,"body":"unless it's just completely, you know,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2178.91,"endTime":2182.01,"body":"terrible,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2182.59,"endTime":2188.742,"body":"there's a developmental fix that can help you"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2182.59,"endTime":2188.742,"body":"if you're just willing to sit down and work on"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2188.766,"endTime":2188.95,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2188.99,"endTime":2190.79,"body":"It's extremely difficult for people, I think,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2190.83,"endTime":2194.342,"body":"even first time writers, to understand that"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2190.83,"endTime":2194.342,"body":"the first book that you write is not the book"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2194.366,"endTime":2195.394,"body":"that you're publishing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2195.542,"endTime":2197.498,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2197.594,"endTime":2198.938,"body":"It's rare for that to happen."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2199.074,"endTime":2200.538,"body":"Very rare for that to happen."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2200.674,"endTime":2203.962,"body":"Yeah, I love those stories, but"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2200.674,"endTime":2203.962,"body":"they're really not the true story of most"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2203.986,"endTime":2204.554,"body":"people."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2204.722,"endTime":2207.322,"body":"And, you know, the, even the books that you"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2207.346,"endTime":2209.69,"body":"really, really love, if you went back, you can"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2207.346,"endTime":2209.69,"body":"see little things."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2209.73,"endTime":2213.242,"body":"You might, you know, you might just fix it if"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2209.73,"endTime":2213.242,"body":"you had a chance or whatever."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2213.306,"endTime":2216.426,"body":"So, yeah, I feel like that makes me."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2216.578,"endTime":2218.81,"body":"I know in 10 years from now I'm gonna look"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2218.85,"endTime":2224.442,"body":"back and I hope that I don't have like a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2218.85,"endTime":2224.442,"body":"little anxiety attack of like, oh, if only I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2224.466,"endTime":2224.938,"body":"could."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2225.074,"endTime":2226.874,"body":"I Did the best I could at the time."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2226.962,"endTime":2230.618,"body":"You know, did you see some"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2226.962,"endTime":2230.618,"body":"writers, like Kit Rocha is one."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2230.674,"endTime":2231.67,"body":"You see others,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2232.05,"endTime":2235.13,"body":"they re release books under new titles or do"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2232.05,"endTime":2235.13,"body":"things."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2235.17,"endTime":2238.87,"body":"I mean, I do think that you can also think of"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2235.17,"endTime":2238.87,"body":"that as a chance to, like,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2239.49,"endTime":2243.85,"body":"fix wrongs or change things that you now have"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2239.49,"endTime":2243.85,"body":"the power to change or."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2243.89,"endTime":2244.426,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2244.498,"endTime":2246.41,"body":"I look at people like Jerry Brown, who ran for"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2246.45,"endTime":2247.114,"body":"governor twice."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2247.162,"endTime":2248.682,"body":"He was better as governor of second time."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2248.706,"endTime":2248.89,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2248.93,"endTime":2251.226,"body":"Like, sometimes second chances are, they're,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2251.258,"endTime":2254.19,"body":"they're, you know, they're great"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2251.258,"endTime":2254.19,"body":"opportunities."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2255.33,"endTime":2259.322,"body":"But I think that a lot of people just think"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2255.33,"endTime":2259.322,"body":"you, like, write, you have a great idea and"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2259.346,"endTime":2262.554,"body":"you write the novel and the first time and"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2259.346,"endTime":2262.554,"body":"it's like, boom, you're done, you're going to"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2262.562,"endTime":2262.986,"body":"be famous."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2263.018,"endTime":2264.47,"body":"And you're like, really?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2265.57,"endTime":2266.55,"body":"The process."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2267.73,"endTime":2268.794,"body":"I really like that."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2268.882,"endTime":2270.682,"body":"I really like the Rubik's Cube of fixing my"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2270.706,"endTime":2272.538,"body":"writing and figuring out how to do things."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2272.594,"endTime":2276.41,"body":"And it's obviously very difficult, but I do"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2276.45,"endTime":2279.962,"body":"love the process of getting over it and then"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2276.45,"endTime":2279.962,"body":"going back and rereading things and being"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2279.986,"endTime":2280.91,"body":"like, oh, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2281.3,"endTime":2282.668,"body":"I figured that out, you know."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2282.724,"endTime":2284.492,"body":"Yeah, you're a reviser."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2284.556,"endTime":2285.756,"body":"It sounds like you're a plotter."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2285.788,"endTime":2287.612,"body":"It sounds like you're a reviser."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2287.756,"endTime":2292.46,"body":"Yeah. And also, I mean, I write"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2287.756,"endTime":2292.46,"body":"for a living and I teach, you know, the people"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2292.5,"endTime":2295.564,"body":"who work for me how to write and to write in a"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2292.5,"endTime":2295.564,"body":"way that's impactful."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2295.612,"endTime":2299.404,"body":"And I'm always asking people, what are you"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2295.612,"endTime":2299.404,"body":"trying to say?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2299.572,"endTime":2301.24,"body":"Yeah, what are you trying to tell people,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2301.62,"endTime":2305.0,"body":"you know, and what kind of story are you"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2301.62,"endTime":2305.0,"body":"trying to tell?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2305.46,"endTime":2308.236,"body":"You know, to me, that's the most fun part of"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2305.46,"endTime":2308.236,"body":"writing."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2308.348,"endTime":2309.96,"body":"Although I'm, you know, I don't know."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2310.28,"endTime":2313.072,"body":"I. I have deep things that I think about in my"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2310.28,"endTime":2313.072,"body":"writing."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2313.136,"endTime":2317.456,"body":"But at the end of the day, I want people to"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2313.136,"endTime":2317.456,"body":"stay up all night or be on an airplane and"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2317.528,"endTime":2318.48,"body":"have five hours pass."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2318.52,"endTime":2322.336,"body":"I want them just to have a really good time"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2318.52,"endTime":2322.336,"body":"and be involved in something that is thrilling"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2322.368,"endTime":2323.056,"body":"to them."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2323.208,"endTime":2324.88,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2324.96,"endTime":2325.824,"body":"That's why I write."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2325.872,"endTime":2326.448,"body":"I want to."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2326.504,"endTime":2328.352,"body":"I want to make people feel the way I feel when"},{"speaker":"I stay up, like last night until 1","startTime":2328.376,"endTime":2331.104,"body":"00am that's"},{"speaker":"I stay up, like last night until 1","startTime":2328.376,"endTime":2331.104,"body":"what."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2331.112,"endTime":2334.54,"body":"I. Yeah, I stayed up almost"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2331.112,"endTime":2334.54,"body":"until 2:00am last night."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2335.52,"endTime":2339.848,"body":"I have a. When I want to relax, I read these"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2335.52,"endTime":2339.848,"body":"really, like, seriously wonderful trashy"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2339.864,"endTime":2345.432,"body":"historic romance novels by Lisa Kalpis about"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2339.864,"endTime":2345.432,"body":"this group of wallflowers that all, like,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2345.616,"endTime":2347.336,"body":"marry these amazing, like, dukes."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2347.368,"endTime":2348.152,"body":"But I've read."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2348.176,"endTime":2349.624,"body":"I reread them all and then I've reread the"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2349.632,"endTime":2352.408,"body":"ones about their kids, but Honestly, they're"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2349.632,"endTime":2352.408,"body":"so satisfying sometimes."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2352.504,"endTime":2355.98,"body":"My husband calls it chardonnay and I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2352.504,"endTime":2355.98,"body":"yeah, okay, fine, whatever."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2356.96,"endTime":2358.024,"body":"Have my chardonnay."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2358.072,"endTime":2358.616,"body":"It's fine."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2358.728,"endTime":2360.776,"body":"But it's hard to write a good romance novel."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2360.808,"endTime":2362.44,"body":"I don't think people understand, you know,"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2362.48,"endTime":2363.06,"body":"like."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2365.13,"endTime":2366.77,"body":"Yeah, yeah, it's easy to read them."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2366.81,"endTime":2368.354,"body":"It's not hard to put them together."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2368.522,"endTime":2372.29,"body":"Yes. But I mean, if you can sit"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2368.522,"endTime":2372.29,"body":"down and be reading until three in the morning"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2372.33,"endTime":2375.63,"body":"and like you don't care and then you have to"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2372.33,"endTime":2375.63,"body":"get up at 6, that's a good book."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2379.93,"endTime":2383.954,"body":"In the moment, I'm like, I will not"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2379.93,"endTime":2383.954,"body":"regret this."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2384.122,"endTime":2387.99,"body":"And then later I'm like, I'm tired, but I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2384.122,"endTime":2387.99,"body":"don't regret."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2388.33,"endTime":2391.202,"body":"Do you also have a 4 year old?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2388.33,"endTime":2391.202,"body":"So like somebody's like poking your eye at"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2391.226,"endTime":2394.238,"body":"like 4 or 5 in the morning?"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2391.226,"endTime":2394.238,"body":"Hi. Good morning."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2394.294,"endTime":2397.902,"body":"For real?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2394.294,"endTime":2397.902,"body":"Yes. Like I went to bed last night at one, I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2397.926,"endTime":2398.558,"body":"finished a book."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2398.614,"endTime":2400.35,"body":"It ended on a cliffhanger, so I had to start"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2400.39,"endTime":2404.654,"body":"the next one, read the first couple chapters"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2400.39,"endTime":2404.654,"body":"just so I like could see, you know, where we"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2404.662,"endTime":2405.87,"body":"were going with this ending."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2405.95,"endTime":2411.422,"body":"And then most of the time my dog, my"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2405.95,"endTime":2411.422,"body":"daughter's has never been historically a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2411.446,"endTime":2413.006,"body":"wonderful sleeper."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2413.198,"endTime":2416.782,"body":"But 6am 6am this morning I was like, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2416.806,"endTime":2418.724,"body":"haven't gotten up at 6am in months."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2418.862,"endTime":2419.54,"body":"Why,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2420.88,"endTime":2421.832,"body":"why are we."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2421.936,"endTime":2423.74,"body":"She senses, she senses."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2424.24,"endTime":2429.48,"body":"She was like, oh, yeah, let's be tired"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2424.24,"endTime":2429.48,"body":"today."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2429.6,"endTime":2431.016,"body":"Yeah, there's no naps."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2431.128,"endTime":2432.024,"body":"So sorry."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2432.152,"endTime":2435.48,"body":"Yes. Love it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2435.6,"endTime":2436.248,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2436.344,"endTime":2439.4,"body":"Well, Emily, do you have any other questions?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2436.344,"endTime":2439.4,"body":"I think we can start."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2439.52,"endTime":2439.992,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2440.056,"endTime":2441.88,"body":"No. Yeah, tell us where to find you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2441.92,"endTime":2442.184,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2442.232,"endTime":2444.056,"body":"How can readers find your books?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2444.088,"endTime":2444.536,"body":"Oh my gosh."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2444.568,"endTime":2445.48,"body":"Well, they're, they're all."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2445.52,"endTime":2447.742,"body":"At all the, you can buy the books at all the"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2447.766,"endTime":2448.734,"body":"traditional places."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2448.862,"endTime":2450.798,"body":"They're in local bookstores, which I hope"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2450.854,"endTime":2452.158,"body":"people will go to first."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2452.214,"endTime":2455.854,"body":"They're available through Barnes and Noble and"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2455.942,"endTime":2457.742,"body":"Apple and Amazon."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2457.806,"endTime":2461.886,"body":"And so if you just Google Yvette Davis the"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2457.806,"endTime":2461.886,"body":"gift, you should be able to find it."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2461.958,"endTime":2464.782,"body":"And they're also in public libraries, which"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2461.958,"endTime":2464.782,"body":"I'm a big supporter of."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2464.806,"endTime":2465.502,"body":"Public libraries."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2465.566,"endTime":2471.006,"body":"It's something that's been a professional pro"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2465.566,"endTime":2471.006,"body":"bono kind of thing for me in San Francisco."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2471.038,"endTime":2473.952,"body":"I've helped raise a lot of money to rebuild"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2471.038,"endTime":2473.952,"body":"the library branches."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2474.016,"endTime":2478.368,"body":"So. Yeah, and send me an email if you read my"},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2474.016,"endTime":2478.368,"body":"book and let me know what you think."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2478.504,"endTime":2479.28,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2479.32,"endTime":2481.728,"body":"And we will have links to your website and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2481.784,"endTime":2484.992,"body":"everything in the show notes, so everyone can"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2481.784,"endTime":2484.992,"body":"go check that out too."},{"speaker":"Evette Davis","startTime":2485.096,"endTime":2486.032,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2486.216,"endTime":2487.552,"body":"Thank you so much for coming on."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2487.576,"endTime":2489.22,"body":"This is such a great discussion."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2490.04,"endTime":2493.472,"body":"If you want to build a successful,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2490.04,"endTime":2493.472,"body":"fulfilling and sustainable writing life that"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2493.496,"endTime":2494.048,"body":"works for you."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2494.104,"endTime":2495.712,"body":"You've gotta get on our email list."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2495.816,"endTime":2499.264,"body":"Sign up now to get our free email"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2495.816,"endTime":2499.264,"body":"course, the Magic of Character Arcs."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2499.312,"endTime":2502.864,"body":"After seven days of email magic, you'll have"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2499.312,"endTime":2502.864,"body":"the power to keep your readers flipping pages"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2502.912,"endTime":2503.792,"body":"all through the night."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2503.896,"endTime":2504.876,"body":"Link in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2504.908,"endTime":2505.692,"body":"We'll see you there."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2505.796,"endTime":2506.18,"body":"Thank you."}]}