{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":14.08,"endTime":14.624,"body":"Hey writers."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":14.648,"endTime":16.344,"body":"Welcome back to Story Magic, the podcast that"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":16.352,"endTime":18.392,"body":"will help you write a book you're damn proud"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":16.352,"endTime":18.392,"body":"of."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":18.496,"endTime":19.32,"body":"I'm Rachel."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":19.4,"endTime":20.536,"body":"And I'm Emily."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":20.728,"endTime":25.368,"body":"And today we are talking about how to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":20.728,"endTime":25.368,"body":"tackle serious themes while writing for"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":25.424,"endTime":30.014,"body":"younger audiences with our very special"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":25.424,"endTime":30.014,"body":"guests, Michael, Dante DiMartino."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":30.062,"endTime":30.51,"body":"Welcome."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":30.59,"endTime":32.782,"body":"Thank you so much for joining us today."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":32.966,"endTime":34.478,"body":"Thanks so much for"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":32.966,"endTime":34.478,"body":"having me on."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":34.534,"endTime":35.15,"body":"Nice to meet you."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":35.19,"endTime":35.95,"body":"We're so excited."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":36.03,"endTime":36.85,"body":"Woo hoo."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":37.43,"endTime":38.318,"body":"We are."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":38.454,"endTime":40.846,"body":"And as I told Michael before we started, we're"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":40.878,"endTime":48.99,"body":"huge fans because Michael is the co creator of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":40.878,"endTime":48.99,"body":"the Lost Airbender and has just a prolific"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":49.15,"endTime":54.456,"body":"creative experience in so many different TV"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":49.15,"endTime":54.456,"body":"shows and graphic novels."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":54.488,"endTime":56.18,"body":"And the book we're going to talk about today."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":56.96,"endTime":59.912,"body":"So we talk about Avatar all the time."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":60.016,"endTime":62.072,"body":"And I actually watched it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":62.096,"endTime":66.184,"body":"I was thinking I had never seen it when Rachel"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":66.232,"endTime":66.824,"body":"and I met."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":66.912,"endTime":70.42,"body":"And then we wrote that Zuko blog about how"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":70.72,"endTime":72.296,"body":"it's a blog about his character arc."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":72.328,"endTime":74.088,"body":"Redemption. Redemption arcs."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":74.184,"endTime":76.968,"body":"So we have a blog about Prince Zuko's"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":76.984,"endTime":78.36,"body":"redemption arc on our website."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":78.48,"endTime":80.302,"body":"Anyway, so Covid."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":80.456,"endTime":85.618,"body":"I vividly remember when Covid first hit my"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":80.456,"endTime":85.618,"body":"husband and I. My husband does not like"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":85.674,"endTime":90.146,"body":"graphic anything and I was like, I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":85.674,"endTime":90.146,"body":"watch this show, so deal with it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":90.218,"endTime":94.994,"body":"And I just started watching it and we consumed"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":90.218,"endTime":94.994,"body":"all of Avatar and Legend of Korra and it was"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":95.002,"endTime":95.33,"body":"amazing."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":95.41,"endTime":96.514,"body":"I think you."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":96.602,"endTime":97.81,"body":"Yeah, you weren't the only one."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":97.85,"endTime":103.73,"body":"Because we definitely had a resurgence of"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":97.85,"endTime":103.73,"body":"interest when it was put on Netflix during"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":103.77,"endTime":108.948,"body":"that time and everybody had some time on their"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":103.77,"endTime":108.948,"body":"hands and wanted to go on an adventure and"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":109.084,"endTime":110.66,"body":"wanted to escape."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":110.74,"endTime":111.92,"body":"Yeah, for sure."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":112.22,"endTime":116.132,"body":"I think I've watched the show like at"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":112.22,"endTime":116.132,"body":"least once a year since."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":116.316,"endTime":117.012,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":117.156,"endTime":117.764,"body":"I know."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":117.852,"endTime":121.972,"body":"Since like probably it's like a comfort now."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":122.076,"endTime":122.356,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":122.388,"endTime":126.484,"body":"Yeah. But they, I think they're taking"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":122.388,"endTime":126.484,"body":"it off Netflix and I'm like really bummed out"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":126.492,"endTime":126.772,"body":"about it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":126.796,"endTime":129.012,"body":"I think it's going to Paramount plus and so"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":129.036,"endTime":129.588,"body":"far I have."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":129.644,"endTime":130.356,"body":"Well, that's the"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":129.644,"endTime":130.356,"body":"thing."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":130.428,"endTime":131.24,"body":"The funny,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":131.58,"endTime":135.492,"body":"no offense to Paramount plus because I work"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":131.58,"endTime":135.492,"body":"for Paramount, but it's always been on"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":135.516,"endTime":136.276,"body":"Paramount plus."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":136.308,"endTime":137.156,"body":"But people don't."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":137.268,"endTime":139.096,"body":"It's not, it's no Netflix."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":139.188,"endTime":141.712,"body":"So you know, people don't necessarily know"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":141.816,"endTime":142.48,"body":"it's on there."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":142.52,"endTime":147.84,"body":"But yes, maybe there's a reason for people to"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":142.52,"endTime":147.84,"body":"sign up for Paramount plus to watch some"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":147.88,"endTime":148.74,"body":"Avatar."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":149.32,"endTime":151.34,"body":"That's my reason for sure."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":152.28,"endTime":153.264,"body":"I have to."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":153.432,"endTime":154.66,"body":"Yearly watchings."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":155.0,"endTime":155.68,"body":"I love it."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":155.72,"endTime":156.032,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":156.096,"endTime":161.04,"body":"Okay, so as much as we love Avatar, you"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":156.096,"endTime":161.04,"body":"are partially here because you wrote a novel"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":161.2,"endTime":163.232,"body":"recently and released a novel recently."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":163.336,"endTime":165.552,"body":"So can you tell us a little bit about maybe"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":165.616,"endTime":168.496,"body":"for folks who don't know who you are because"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":165.616,"endTime":168.496,"body":"we are nerding out a little bit."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":168.568,"endTime":172.524,"body":"Can you tell us a little bit about like who"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":168.568,"endTime":172.524,"body":"you are, how you're related to the Avatar"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":172.572,"endTime":173.16,"body":"world,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":173.54,"endTime":180.06,"body":"what you did for that show and how you ended"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":173.54,"endTime":180.06,"body":"up in novel writing and a little bit about"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":180.1,"endTime":181.12,"body":"your current novel?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":181.46,"endTime":182.524,"body":"Yeah, totally."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":182.652,"endTime":186.3,"body":"My name's Mike and yes, I'm most well known"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":186.34,"endTime":190.956,"body":"for being the co creator of the Last Airbender"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":186.34,"endTime":190.956,"body":"and Legend of Korra, which was the sequel"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":191.068,"endTime":191.72,"body":"series."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":193.3,"endTime":196.64,"body":"And yeah, I grew up in Vermont back east."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":197.3,"endTime":199.08,"body":"Always was interested in,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":199.39,"endTime":201.67,"body":"in art, like from a very young age."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":201.71,"endTime":204.662,"body":"I was always drawing and you know, in high"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":204.686,"endTime":209.27,"body":"school knew I wanted to go to art school and I"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":204.686,"endTime":209.27,"body":"wasn't sure about animation yet, but I really"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":209.31,"endTime":210.406,"body":"liked animation."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":210.598,"endTime":213.398,"body":"Thought maybe I would do painting or"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":210.598,"endTime":213.398,"body":"illustration."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":213.494,"endTime":220.15,"body":"And then yeah, I went to one art school my"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":213.494,"endTime":220.15,"body":"freshman year in Baltimore, Maryland and then"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":220.19,"endTime":224.822,"body":"transferred to Rhode Island School of Design"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":220.19,"endTime":224.822,"body":"for the rest of my college career because they"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":224.846,"endTime":227.536,"body":"had a, a film and animation program there and"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":224.846,"endTime":227.536,"body":"I,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":227.608,"endTime":229.056,"body":"that was like kind of a sign."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":229.128,"endTime":231.792,"body":"I was like, oh, I always wanted to do that and"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":231.816,"endTime":234.256,"body":"here's a school where I can, I can learn how"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":231.816,"endTime":234.256,"body":"to do that."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":234.328,"endTime":239.664,"body":"So. And that's, you know, ultimately where I"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":234.328,"endTime":239.664,"body":"met a lot of my good friends, including Brian"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":239.712,"endTime":242.3,"body":"Konitsko, who's the, the other creator of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":239.712,"endTime":242.3,"body":"show."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":242.92,"endTime":248.832,"body":"So we've known each other, you know, for"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":242.92,"endTime":248.832,"body":"almost well over 20 years now because this"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":248.856,"endTime":254.072,"body":"year is actually the 20th anniversary of when"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":248.856,"endTime":254.072,"body":"Avatar premiered."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":254.216,"endTime":255.496,"body":"That's so crazy."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":255.608,"endTime":255.88,"body":"Really."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":255.92,"endTime":259.08,"body":"We were working on it like, you know, a few"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":255.92,"endTime":259.08,"body":"years before that."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":259.12,"endTime":264.38,"body":"So we've been working on this stuff for close"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":259.12,"endTime":264.38,"body":"to 25 years now, which is crazy."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":265.92,"endTime":269.272,"body":"So yeah, I mean, my early career was in"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":265.92,"endTime":269.272,"body":"animation."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":269.336,"endTime":275.272,"body":"I worked on shows like King of Hill and Family"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":269.336,"endTime":275.272,"body":"Guy, doing storyboards and directing and that"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":275.296,"endTime":276.072,"body":"sort of thing."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":276.176,"endTime":278.644,"body":"But I had always been interested in writing."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":278.792,"endTime":281.32,"body":"I did a lot of like writing on the side,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":282.18,"endTime":284.04,"body":"short stories, that sort of thing."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":285.78,"endTime":287.5,"body":"And yeah, wanted to create my own show."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":287.54,"endTime":290.652,"body":"I did a short film on my own that I wrote,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":290.716,"endTime":298.588,"body":"animated, produced like during my early career"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":290.716,"endTime":298.588,"body":"when I was working on those shows."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":298.764,"endTime":300.188,"body":"This was pre Avatar days."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":300.244,"endTime":303.76,"body":"So like 2000, 2000 to 2002 ish."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":305.36,"endTime":311.192,"body":"And yeah, then Brian and I had worked together"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":305.36,"endTime":311.192,"body":"on these shows and wanted to create our own"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":311.216,"endTime":314.008,"body":"show and take that next step."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":314.064,"endTime":317.06,"body":"So we combined our forces and."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":319.84,"endTime":320.152,"body":"In."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":320.176,"endTime":322.312,"body":"The grand scheme of"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":320.176,"endTime":322.312,"body":"things, it was a relatively short amount of"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":322.336,"endTime":328.376,"body":"time of coming up with the idea for Avatar,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":322.336,"endTime":328.376,"body":"pitching it and developing it, and ultimately"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":328.408,"endTime":333.02,"body":"getting at least the initial green light to"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":328.408,"endTime":333.02,"body":"start making some episodes."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":333.7,"endTime":337.132,"body":"And we are still Working on this world today."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":337.236,"endTime":339.276,"body":"There's going to be a featured film coming out"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":339.348,"endTime":340.28,"body":"next year."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":340.82,"endTime":345.884,"body":"We're working on some other stuff I can't talk"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":340.82,"endTime":345.884,"body":"about, but there's a lot of stuff in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":345.892,"endTime":349.24,"body":"pipeline so I'm very much still steeped in"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":345.892,"endTime":349.24,"body":"that world."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":350.18,"endTime":355.244,"body":"And then yeah, the novel writing thing was"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":350.18,"endTime":355.244,"body":"something I was always kind of working on on"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":355.252,"endTime":356.012,"body":"the side."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":356.196,"endTime":361.222,"body":"A few years back I published a two books in a"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":361.246,"endTime":363.01,"body":"like middle grade fantasy series."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":364.03,"endTime":365.334,"body":"And that was between."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":365.502,"endTime":366.998,"body":"Or that was after Korra."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":367.094,"endTime":373.862,"body":"We finished Korra and like needed a. Needed a"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":367.094,"endTime":373.862,"body":"break and a creative recharge and I really"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":373.886,"endTime":378.678,"body":"wanted to do, you know, finally get into"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":373.886,"endTime":378.678,"body":"publishing and you know, try to write a full"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":378.734,"endTime":379.062,"body":"novel."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":379.126,"endTime":384.37,"body":"And so I wrote a couple of those and then,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":385.35,"endTime":391.15,"body":"then there was some other Avatar stuff going"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":385.35,"endTime":391.15,"body":"on and then yeah, this was also during the"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":391.19,"endTime":392.926,"body":"COVID kind of pre."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":392.998,"endTime":394.27,"body":"Covid time."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":394.31,"endTime":401.134,"body":"And then into Covid, like I just like I find"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":394.31,"endTime":401.134,"body":"I'm more creatively fulfilled even though I"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":401.142,"endTime":407.294,"body":"have a very creative job, you know, like"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":401.142,"endTime":407.294,"body":"having my own side project or side writing"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":407.342,"endTime":412.702,"body":"projects that aren't connected to a studio or"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":407.342,"endTime":412.702,"body":"getting notes from a studio,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":412.766,"endTime":413.85,"body":"that sort of thing."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":414.23,"endTime":419.11,"body":"So yeah, this project, which ultimately became"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":414.23,"endTime":419.11,"body":"the book both Here and Gone,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":421.69,"endTime":427.186,"body":"it was kind of an experiment because it was"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":421.69,"endTime":427.186,"body":"like I said, I needed just like a creative"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":427.378,"endTime":429.27,"body":"something spark,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":430.01,"endTime":431.03,"body":"jumpstart."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":431.77,"endTime":434.482,"body":"So I had never done NaNoWriMo before."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":434.586,"endTime":436.51,"body":"So this was like 2019."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":437.45,"endTime":442.858,"body":"And I was like, oh, that's a good way to sort"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":437.45,"endTime":442.858,"body":"of just write every day."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":442.914,"endTime":448.39,"body":"And even if nothing comes of it, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":442.914,"endTime":448.39,"body":"I'll have gotten back into the groove a bit."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":448.69,"endTime":455.082,"body":"And so I had like a very rough idea of this"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":448.69,"endTime":455.082,"body":"story about a kid who was going through like"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":455.106,"endTime":456.35,"body":"all these losses."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":456.77,"endTime":460.91,"body":"Pac man, the video game was involved bigfire."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":461.49,"endTime":466.186,"body":"A girl with amnesia, like, so I had all these"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":461.49,"endTime":466.186,"body":"kind of like pieces that I was like interested"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":466.218,"endTime":467.83,"body":"in and sort of just went,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":468.26,"endTime":470.716,"body":"you know, did what you do during NaNoWriMo."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":470.748,"endTime":472.54,"body":"I was like, all right, here's scene one."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":472.66,"endTime":474.428,"body":"Here's some stuff that's going to happen."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":474.484,"endTime":478.844,"body":"And some days I was like, oh, this is cool."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":478.892,"endTime":480.972,"body":"Some days I'm like, I don't know what I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":478.892,"endTime":480.972,"body":"writing."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":481.036,"endTime":482.28,"body":"I don't know what this is."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":483.62,"endTime":490.332,"body":"Because it was very different than what we do"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":483.62,"endTime":490.332,"body":"on the TV shows, which is typically you're not"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":490.356,"endTime":490.684,"body":"alone."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":490.732,"endTime":492.22,"body":"You're sitting in a room with a bunch of other"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":492.26,"endTime":493.692,"body":"writers talking about these ideas."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":493.756,"endTime":497.634,"body":"You're putting cards on whiteboards or"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":493.756,"endTime":497.634,"body":"whatever."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":497.762,"endTime":505.282,"body":"You know, very outline heavy process because"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":497.762,"endTime":505.282,"body":"you have to write a premise, turn it into the"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":505.306,"endTime":509.57,"body":"network to get notes, you Gotta write then a"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":505.306,"endTime":509.57,"body":"more fleshed out outline, turn that in, get"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":509.61,"endTime":510.578,"body":"notes until you find."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":510.634,"endTime":512.47,"body":"Then you finally get to write the script."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":513.21,"endTime":514.67,"body":"So, you know, it's a very."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":515.45,"endTime":516.258,"body":"For good reason."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":516.314,"endTime":517.33,"body":"You know, there's the."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":517.45,"endTime":518.43,"body":"It's a very."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":519.29,"endTime":521.138,"body":"It's still a chaotic process, but."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":521.194,"endTime":522.898,"body":"But it's a little more organized in that,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":522.954,"endTime":524.674,"body":"like, each step, you know, you're, you're."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":524.802,"endTime":526.91,"body":"There's a lot of planning involved, I guess."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":527.61,"endTime":532.13,"body":"And this one, I was trying to do a little more"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":527.61,"endTime":532.13,"body":"of the pantsing thing and just see where it"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":532.17,"endTime":532.91,"body":"took me."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":534.09,"endTime":541.83,"body":"And then sort of like once I had that rough,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":534.09,"endTime":541.83,"body":"very super rough draft at the end of November,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":542.73,"endTime":546.194,"body":"sitting down and seeing like, what is this"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":542.73,"endTime":546.194,"body":"really about?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":546.282,"endTime":547.71,"body":"How do I structure it?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":549.13,"endTime":554.462,"body":"What am I trying to say with this book?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":549.13,"endTime":554.462,"body":"And then, you know, then went into revising"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":554.526,"endTime":554.878,"body":"and stuff."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":554.894,"endTime":558.254,"body":"And a lot of that happened during the lockdown"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":558.302,"endTime":560.57,"body":"days of 2020."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":561.11,"endTime":566.798,"body":"Yeah. So I. Emily is typically a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":561.11,"endTime":566.798,"body":"plotter and I am typically a pantser."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":566.894,"endTime":570.89,"body":"And so we end up having like these really"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":566.894,"endTime":570.89,"body":"interesting conversations about how process"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":571.35,"endTime":573.39,"body":"can differ in the writing experience."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":573.51,"endTime":576.814,"body":"But you ultimately end up with like a finished"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":573.51,"endTime":576.814,"body":"book and everybody still needs to write a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":576.822,"endTime":578.83,"body":"first draft and everybody still needs to do"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":576.822,"endTime":578.83,"body":"revising."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":578.91,"endTime":582.418,"body":"And it's like, all so important in the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":578.91,"endTime":582.418,"body":"storytelling process."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":582.554,"endTime":589.07,"body":"But did it feel like it was like scratching"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":582.554,"endTime":589.07,"body":"different itches in your brain to go from"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":589.61,"endTime":593.506,"body":"something so heavily planned to like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":589.61,"endTime":593.506,"body":"gonna try pantsing?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":593.538,"endTime":596.594,"body":"I mean, did you like it or were you like, no,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":593.538,"endTime":596.594,"body":"this is the worst."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":596.722,"endTime":599.09,"body":"Um, it was a day to"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":596.722,"endTime":599.09,"body":"day thing."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":599.13,"endTime":599.91,"body":"Cause, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":600.65,"endTime":601.79,"body":"on the one hand,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":602.25,"endTime":607.49,"body":"there were days where like, something"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":602.25,"endTime":607.49,"body":"surprising would happen that I had not planned"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":607.57,"endTime":608.162,"body":"consciously."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":608.226,"endTime":609.922,"body":"Like, the character of Rennie, who's like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":609.946,"endTime":615.966,"body":"kind of one of the main characters in like, a"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":609.946,"endTime":615.966,"body":"mentor figure to the main character, Jack,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":616.158,"endTime":620.398,"body":"like, he was not someone in those initial"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":616.158,"endTime":620.398,"body":"scraps of ideas I had,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":620.454,"endTime":622.57,"body":"like, I didn't have a character that was like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":623.75,"endTime":630.046,"body":"philosophical guy who lives in the woods, who"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":623.75,"endTime":630.046,"body":"mentors young kid, but I was writing a scene"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":630.078,"endTime":630.51,"body":"that is."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":630.55,"endTime":632.686,"body":"It kind of ended up in the book where Jack's"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":632.718,"endTime":637.39,"body":"like, outside this mall hanging out, and then"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":632.718,"endTime":637.39,"body":"this dude pulls up in a pickup truck."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":637.55,"endTime":642.08,"body":"Like, that was one of those, like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":637.55,"endTime":642.08,"body":"sort of unplanned,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":642.74,"endTime":646.156,"body":"semi magical moments where it's just like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":642.74,"endTime":646.156,"body":"who's this dude?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":646.188,"endTime":651.068,"body":"Why'd he drive into this story?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":646.188,"endTime":651.068,"body":"And then, you know, exploring him and his role"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":651.124,"endTime":651.996,"body":"in the book."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":652.068,"endTime":652.68,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":654.18,"endTime":658.28,"body":"But yeah, but then there were days where I was"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":654.18,"endTime":658.28,"body":"completely lost and had no idea what I was"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":659.3,"endTime":661.292,"body":"planning to do with this story."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":661.396,"endTime":663.164,"body":"And what do I write today?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":663.252,"endTime":665.1,"body":"And so it's a. It's a mixed bag."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":665.18,"endTime":668.41,"body":"I do think it is interesting since I have"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":668.45,"endTime":672.59,"body":"written for tv, I've written comics, I've"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":668.45,"endTime":672.59,"body":"written some novels."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":673.65,"endTime":679.83,"body":"There is something I think for novel writing"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":673.65,"endTime":679.83,"body":"that I do like about being a little more"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":680.21,"endTime":686.522,"body":"freeform about it because I think with my"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":680.21,"endTime":686.522,"body":"middle grade novels, I think I did take more"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":686.546,"endTime":692.57,"body":"of the approach that I do on tv, which is more"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":686.546,"endTime":692.57,"body":"plotting and planning out every chapter ahead"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":692.61,"endTime":693.018,"body":"of time."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":693.074,"endTime":693.67,"body":"And,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":694.26,"endTime":700.892,"body":"and I think, I mean, it was also my first full"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":694.26,"endTime":700.892,"body":"novel I had written, so it feels kind of stiff"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":700.956,"endTime":706.24,"body":"at times and not as novelistic as I had kind"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":700.956,"endTime":706.24,"body":"of hoped, I guess."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":706.98,"endTime":713.1,"body":"So that's why I think a combo is good,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":706.98,"endTime":713.1,"body":"especially for writing novels."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":713.26,"endTime":714.0,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":714.5,"endTime":719.804,"body":"we say a lot in our sphere that revisions are"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":714.5,"endTime":719.804,"body":"where the magic happens."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":719.932,"endTime":721.034,"body":"It's like a. It's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":721.082,"endTime":722.762,"body":"I don't know if we coined that, I doubt it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":722.786,"endTime":724.17,"body":"But like we say that a lot."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":724.29,"endTime":726.266,"body":"Revisions are where the magic happens."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":726.458,"endTime":729.61,"body":"Did you feel like that was so true for both"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":729.65,"endTime":733.802,"body":"here and gone as you were figuring out the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":729.65,"endTime":733.802,"body":"message and you know, figuring out how is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":733.826,"endTime":737.594,"body":"Rennie really going to play and all this story"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":733.826,"endTime":737.594,"body":"and weaving him back in really tightly?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":737.642,"endTime":740.31,"body":"I mean, what was your revisions process like?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":740.85,"endTime":743.19,"body":"Yeah, it was really,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":740.85,"endTime":743.19,"body":"it was going through."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":743.57,"endTime":749.42,"body":"I mean, first I worked with a, like a story"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":743.57,"endTime":749.42,"body":"consultant guy I'd worked with before on a."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":749.54,"endTime":756.652,"body":"Actually I had also written a audible drama,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":749.54,"endTime":756.652,"body":"like an audio drama for Audible a little bit"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":756.676,"endTime":758.16,"body":"before this, this novel."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":758.58,"endTime":762.8,"body":"And I had worked with him to help develop the"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":758.58,"endTime":762.8,"body":"story and stuff."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":763.3,"endTime":766.508,"body":"So he does more like screenplay stuff."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":766.524,"endTime":768.412,"body":"But I was like, I really liked working with"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":768.436,"endTime":768.572,"body":"him."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":768.596,"endTime":770.84,"body":"So I was like, can you take a look at this"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":772.42,"endTime":777.442,"body":"story I have and see what, what structure is"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":772.42,"endTime":777.442,"body":"there?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":777.626,"endTime":783.666,"body":"And so that really helped whatever version of"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":777.626,"endTime":783.666,"body":"that is for you, getting somebody else's eye"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":783.698,"endTime":790.546,"body":"on it to just help you sort of just identify"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":783.698,"endTime":790.546,"body":"the themes even."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":790.698,"endTime":793.39,"body":"Whose point of view is this coming from?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":794.41,"endTime":798.514,"body":"So yeah, the book is all told through Jack's"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":794.41,"endTime":798.514,"body":"POV."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":798.562,"endTime":800.164,"body":"He's a 14 year old boy."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":800.362,"endTime":802.48,"body":"But when I initially wrote it, I had all these"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":802.52,"endTime":810.112,"body":"sections that were from his father's point of"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":802.52,"endTime":810.112,"body":"view, who in the story he goes missing on the"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":810.136,"endTime":810.896,"body":"Appalachian Trail."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":810.928,"endTime":814.912,"body":"And it was like his journals from the trail"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":810.928,"endTime":814.912,"body":"and it was kind of interwoven through the"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":814.936,"endTime":815.696,"body":"whole story."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":815.848,"endTime":818.192,"body":"Yeah, and so that, I mean that was one of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":818.216,"endTime":822.272,"body":"big changes in the revision process that came"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":818.216,"endTime":822.272,"body":"out is like I thought that that had to be in"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":822.296,"endTime":823.872,"body":"the story as this."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":824.056,"endTime":829.812,"body":"It's kind of a. There's a bit of a mystery to"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":824.056,"endTime":829.812,"body":"the story too of like what happened To Jack on"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":829.836,"endTime":836.772,"body":"this fateful day when his friend fell through"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":829.836,"endTime":836.772,"body":"the ice and she was in a coma and has lost her"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":836.796,"endTime":838.76,"body":"memory about what happened."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":840.78,"endTime":844.28,"body":"And so, yeah, that revision."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":845.1,"endTime":848.468,"body":"I forget exactly where it happened, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":845.1,"endTime":848.468,"body":"somewhere in the middle, I was like, I wonder"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":848.484,"endTime":852.18,"body":"if this book would work better if I just took"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":848.484,"endTime":852.18,"body":"this out."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":852.22,"endTime":855.2,"body":"So you're just in his head, because it is very"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":852.22,"endTime":855.2,"body":"much a."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":855.68,"endTime":858.408,"body":"He's kind of an unreliable narrator in a way."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":858.464,"endTime":861.192,"body":"So anytime you stepped away from him, you were"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":861.216,"endTime":866.02,"body":"getting this other point of view that I think"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":861.216,"endTime":866.02,"body":"ultimately wasn't helping the main story."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":867.6,"endTime":874.02,"body":"So, yeah, that was one big thing that occurred"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":867.6,"endTime":874.02,"body":"during the reunion process."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":874.56,"endTime":878.36,"body":"Yeah. I think as an adult reading"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":874.56,"endTime":878.36,"body":"both."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":878.4,"endTime":882.444,"body":"Herringon is young adult, so I think as an"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":878.4,"endTime":882.444,"body":"adult reading that you can definitely pick up"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":882.592,"endTime":885.24,"body":"that he is an unreliable narrator."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":885.58,"endTime":890.88,"body":"But I was trying to imagine as I was reading"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":885.58,"endTime":890.88,"body":"it, being a kid and thinking, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":891.34,"endTime":892.676,"body":"wow, this is."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":892.748,"endTime":893.94,"body":"He goes through a lot."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":894.06,"endTime":899.348,"body":"You know, like, just from the get go, every"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":894.06,"endTime":899.348,"body":"single thing in Jack's life is just going"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":899.404,"endTime":899.828,"body":"wrong."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":899.924,"endTime":902.436,"body":"And, like, there's a lot of really heavy"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":902.468,"endTime":904.372,"body":"things that he hits on."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":904.556,"endTime":909.08,"body":"And I think, like, I didn't experience a lot"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":904.556,"endTime":909.08,"body":"of that in my childhood."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":909.53,"endTime":914.43,"body":"And I think reading it, you know, this is what"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":909.53,"endTime":914.43,"body":"we're talking about today, is like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":914.81,"endTime":919.842,"body":"seeing these really heavy things on the page"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":914.81,"endTime":919.842,"body":"and then also trying to make sense of them in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":919.866,"endTime":921.186,"body":"your head at that age."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":921.258,"endTime":923.042,"body":"And I imagine it just has to be, like, such a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":923.066,"endTime":925.99,"body":"difficult balance because obviously you're"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":923.066,"endTime":925.99,"body":"writing in as an adult."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":926.41,"endTime":927.762,"body":"You've lived through loss."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":927.866,"endTime":930.594,"body":"We've now, as adults, lived through that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":930.682,"endTime":936.742,"body":"But putting it in the context of, like, Jack's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":930.682,"endTime":936.742,"body":"life is so hard, and, like, every single thing"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":936.766,"endTime":942.31,"body":"that he's going through, there's something new"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":936.766,"endTime":942.31,"body":"that makes him angry or jaded or nervous or,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":942.35,"endTime":943.078,"body":"you know, we."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":943.134,"endTime":944.038,"body":"We still feel the."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":944.094,"endTime":945.414,"body":"The tension of that mystery."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":945.462,"endTime":948.93,"body":"And, like, you can feel that he's gotta come"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":945.462,"endTime":948.93,"body":"to,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":949.55,"endTime":950.23,"body":"like, a mo."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":950.27,"endTime":952.566,"body":"Like a reckoning of that, you know?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":952.638,"endTime":957.414,"body":"So what was that like coming through?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":952.638,"endTime":957.414,"body":"I mean, it feels like that's common amongst a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":957.422,"endTime":961.846,"body":"lot of your work and in Avatar as well, is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":957.422,"endTime":961.846,"body":"these themes that, like, we don't want to shy"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":961.878,"endTime":969.498,"body":"away from them as kids, but how do we present"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":961.878,"endTime":969.498,"body":"them in a way that we can feel it,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":969.554,"endTime":974.778,"body":"but not like, oh, yeah, war and death and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":969.554,"endTime":974.778,"body":"genocide are real, but cancer is also real,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":974.834,"endTime":976.83,"body":"and so is loss and grief,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":977.25,"endTime":979.99,"body":"and you've got to just live that."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":981.33,"endTime":985.95,"body":"Yeah. I mean, with"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":981.33,"endTime":985.95,"body":"the show and then with this novel,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":986.77,"endTime":992.246,"body":"part of it, honestly, is just like, we all"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":986.77,"endTime":992.246,"body":"have our natural sensibilities of what we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":992.278,"endTime":994.15,"body":"drawn to what we're interested in."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":994.19,"endTime":995.73,"body":"Whether that's because we."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":996.19,"endTime":998.998,"body":"Because of our life experience or just."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":999.054,"endTime":999.81,"body":"We're just."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1000.75,"endTime":1002.054,"body":"There's part of us that don't."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1002.102,"endTime":1003.542,"body":"Doesn't have control over that."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1003.646,"endTime":1010.45,"body":"I think I'm coming to realize in my older age"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1003.646,"endTime":1010.45,"body":"of just like we are wired certain ways and"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1010.83,"endTime":1013.798,"body":"we're drawn to certain things and not drawn to"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1010.83,"endTime":1013.798,"body":"other things."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1013.854,"endTime":1020.96,"body":"And um, so I think just in a way, naturally,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1013.854,"endTime":1020.96,"body":"I've always, you know, been interested in"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1021.0,"endTime":1021.344,"body":"these."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1021.432,"endTime":1022.64,"body":"These stories and telling."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1022.72,"endTime":1028.64,"body":"Telling stories that while can be super"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1022.72,"endTime":1028.64,"body":"entertaining, have something deeper to them."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1028.76,"endTime":1029.42,"body":"So,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1030.28,"endTime":1034.672,"body":"you know, like when I worked on those sitcom"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1030.28,"endTime":1034.672,"body":"shows, like they were super fun to work on."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1034.776,"endTime":1038.66,"body":"I like watching them sometimes they're fun,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1034.776,"endTime":1038.66,"body":"you know, super funny,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1039.24,"endTime":1043.88,"body":"but they often don't give you a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1039.24,"endTime":1043.88,"body":"emotional nutrients."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1045.42,"endTime":1047.08,"body":"They just serve a different purpose."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1048.46,"endTime":1055.78,"body":"So when we set out to create Avatar, it was"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1048.46,"endTime":1055.78,"body":"wanting to infuse some deeper meanings into"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1055.82,"endTime":1056.068,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1056.124,"endTime":1059.156,"body":"And I think when you're dealing with fantasy"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1059.188,"endTime":1061.16,"body":"stuff, bigger mythological stories,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1061.58,"endTime":1069.22,"body":"that is a bit naturally woven into it because"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1061.58,"endTime":1069.22,"body":"there's usually a coming of age maturation"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1069.38,"endTime":1071.48,"body":"element to those stories."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1072.2,"endTime":1073.62,"body":"So yeah, with Avatar,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1074.6,"endTime":1081.06,"body":"obviously like, yeah, genocide is there like"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1074.6,"endTime":1081.06,"body":"it's a kid who lost his whole culture."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1081.96,"endTime":1087.008,"body":"But he doesn't in that story, like he's a"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1081.96,"endTime":1087.008,"body":"very."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1087.064,"endTime":1090.34,"body":"He's naturally a. Aang was the main character."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1091.88,"endTime":1095.472,"body":"He's not a pessimistic kid."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1095.536,"endTime":1097.22,"body":"He's a very optimistic,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1097.56,"endTime":1101.1,"body":"you know, because of the culture he grew up in"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1097.56,"endTime":1101.1,"body":"and just who he naturally is."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1101.48,"endTime":1106.118,"body":"So we always thought it was, you know, I think"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1101.48,"endTime":1106.118,"body":"that's part of what has made that story"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1106.174,"endTime":1113.09,"body":"resonant is like you're taking a character"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1106.174,"endTime":1113.09,"body":"with a certain sensibility and putting him in"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1113.95,"endTime":1117.558,"body":"the opposite situation that he would be used"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1113.95,"endTime":1117.558,"body":"to, which is a war torn world."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1117.614,"endTime":1121.11,"body":"And he's supposed to somehow solve this"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1117.614,"endTime":1121.11,"body":"violent conflict."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1121.19,"endTime":1125.366,"body":"And he is naturally a nonviolent pacifist"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1121.19,"endTime":1125.366,"body":"basically."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1125.558,"endTime":1126.246,"body":"How do you solve."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1126.278,"endTime":1128.614,"body":"It's an impossible problem to solve."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1128.662,"endTime":1133.846,"body":"So I always say in these coming up with"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1128.662,"endTime":1133.846,"body":"stories, like how it's not easy, but it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1133.878,"endTime":1140.982,"body":"like, how can you make these plots that have"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1133.878,"endTime":1140.982,"body":"like on the surface it seems impossible to"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1141.006,"endTime":1141.59,"body":"solve."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1141.75,"endTime":1147.638,"body":"So like even, yeah, like with my book, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1141.75,"endTime":1147.638,"body":"like this kid who's like grieving all these"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1147.694,"endTime":1153.254,"body":"losses and you know, his father, his father"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1147.694,"endTime":1153.254,"body":"took off to walk the Appalachian trails, his"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1153.342,"endTime":1158.99,"body":"mom's selling their house, his friend had this"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1153.342,"endTime":1158.99,"body":"accident, she doesn't remember anything."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1160.69,"endTime":1163.27,"body":"So he's just going throughout like, how do"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1160.69,"endTime":1163.27,"body":"you."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1163.81,"endTime":1168.362,"body":"And that is a much more real life thing where"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1163.81,"endTime":1168.362,"body":"it's like, how do you it's not."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1168.386,"endTime":1172.634,"body":"It's actually not a problem to solve because,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1168.386,"endTime":1172.634,"body":"like, there's no solution at the end of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1172.642,"endTime":1172.858,"body":"day."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1172.914,"endTime":1177.658,"body":"But it's like, how do you cope with this?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1172.914,"endTime":1177.658,"body":"How do you move through it and find some sort"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1177.674,"endTime":1181.03,"body":"of balance or peace in your life?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1181.42,"endTime":1186.468,"body":"Yeah. And I think your take on Jack is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1181.42,"endTime":1186.468,"body":"a lot different than the take on Aang."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1186.564,"endTime":1191.092,"body":"I mean, Jack is a totally different character"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1186.564,"endTime":1191.092,"body":"in the way that he's processing it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1191.196,"endTime":1191.796,"body":"Like, I can't."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1191.828,"endTime":1194.532,"body":"I mean, you would imagine Aang would see all"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1194.556,"endTime":1199.68,"body":"these things and find the silver lining, but"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1194.556,"endTime":1199.68,"body":"Jack looks at all of it and is like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1200.06,"endTime":1201.188,"body":"this sucks."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1201.364,"endTime":1201.892,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1201.956,"endTime":1202.96,"body":"This is hard."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1204.14,"endTime":1206.876,"body":"Yeah. And for me,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1204.14,"endTime":1206.876,"body":"Jack is like, he embodies, like, our."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1206.988,"endTime":1209.772,"body":"Are kind of what we."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1209.796,"endTime":1212.252,"body":"How we usually react to loss and grieve, which"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1212.276,"endTime":1213.708,"body":"is like, screw this."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1213.844,"endTime":1215.516,"body":"Like, this is the worst."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1215.708,"endTime":1218.36,"body":"And why do I have to go through this and why."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1218.74,"endTime":1220.076,"body":"You know, it's not fair."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1220.148,"endTime":1222.828,"body":"And all those things you think when you are"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1222.884,"endTime":1224.28,"body":"faced with, like, a really,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1225.06,"endTime":1226.8,"body":"really rough life challenge."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1227.22,"endTime":1228.0,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1228.74,"endTime":1230.796,"body":"With. With a young audience."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1230.908,"endTime":1231.18,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1231.22,"endTime":1234.45,"body":"When we're writing for younger minds,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1235.83,"endTime":1237.902,"body":"we. I would imagine."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1237.966,"endTime":1239.854,"body":"I don't write young adult stuff, and this is"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1239.862,"endTime":1244.61,"body":"partially why, because I have a really hard"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1239.862,"endTime":1244.61,"body":"time, like, with bringing."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1245.03,"endTime":1248.622,"body":"Talking about really heavy themes, because"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1245.03,"endTime":1248.622,"body":"that also interests me, but in a way that"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1248.646,"endTime":1251.374,"body":"brings, like, levity or some kind of takeaway"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1248.646,"endTime":1251.374,"body":"that a kid."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1251.422,"endTime":1254.542,"body":"Because you don't want to just, like, dump a"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1251.422,"endTime":1254.542,"body":"lot of depressing stuff on a kid and then be"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1254.566,"endTime":1255.726,"body":"like, this is the world."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1255.798,"endTime":1256.366,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1256.518,"endTime":1259.416,"body":"You want to give them something like we're"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1259.448,"endTime":1263.06,"body":"writing to give them something that they can"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1259.448,"endTime":1263.06,"body":"kind of take away and,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1263.52,"endTime":1268.296,"body":"you know, weave into their own lives to help"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1263.52,"endTime":1268.296,"body":"them navigate certain circumstances."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1268.408,"endTime":1271.832,"body":"So I'm curious, sort of, how do you approach"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1268.408,"endTime":1271.832,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1271.856,"endTime":1276.872,"body":"And is that approach different when you're"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1271.856,"endTime":1276.872,"body":"writing in a, you know, in a speculative"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1276.936,"endTime":1281.112,"body":"world, in a world that's not, you know, where"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1276.936,"endTime":1281.112,"body":"there's some distance between the reader and"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1281.136,"endTime":1284.62,"body":"the characters versus a contemporary world"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1281.136,"endTime":1284.62,"body":"like Jack's."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1286.78,"endTime":1288.0,"body":"That's a good"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1286.78,"endTime":1288.0,"body":"question."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1289.18,"endTime":1291.52,"body":"I think it's more of a difference of, like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1292.7,"endTime":1297.412,"body":"maybe when you're writing for TV or film"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1292.7,"endTime":1297.412,"body":"versus like, writing a novel."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1297.476,"endTime":1301.04,"body":"Because even when I was doing my middle grade"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1297.476,"endTime":1301.04,"body":"novel and got to go to, like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1301.58,"endTime":1306.18,"body":"all the publishing conferences and meet other"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1301.58,"endTime":1306.18,"body":"authors and see what other books were coming"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1306.22,"endTime":1308.64,"body":"out, it always struck me that, like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1309.18,"endTime":1316.552,"body":"in publishing, it's even at younger ages,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1309.18,"endTime":1316.552,"body":"like, they were willing to tackle stuff in"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1316.656,"endTime":1323.08,"body":"much more serious ways than you'd ever do on"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1316.656,"endTime":1323.08,"body":"tv, partly because you get notes from"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1323.12,"endTime":1324.104,"body":"standards and Practices."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1324.152,"endTime":1324.968,"body":"You can't say this."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1325.024,"endTime":1326.1,"body":"You can't say."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1327.2,"endTime":1332.568,"body":"To this day, we still have fights over, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1327.2,"endTime":1332.568,"body":"can't say dead or they die."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1332.744,"endTime":1339.416,"body":"Even stuff like that, where fans of the show"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1332.744,"endTime":1339.416,"body":"will probably remember the ambiguity of Jet's"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1339.448,"endTime":1340.0,"body":"death."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1340.16,"endTime":1344.5,"body":"Yes, that was literally because we couldn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1340.16,"endTime":1344.5,"body":"say he died."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1345.0,"endTime":1348.576,"body":"So there was like, we were talking around it,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1345.0,"endTime":1348.576,"body":"but that wasn't."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1348.768,"endTime":1351.92,"body":"We didn't mean to be like ambiguous about it."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1351.96,"endTime":1355.36,"body":"Like, we always meant that he unfortunately"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1355.44,"endTime":1360.42,"body":"came to, you know, an untimely angel,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1355.44,"endTime":1360.42,"body":"terrible, terrible demise."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1361.72,"endTime":1366.112,"body":"So that is, I think one big difference is"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1361.72,"endTime":1366.112,"body":"like, you can deal with that stuff and we"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1366.136,"endTime":1366.64,"body":"obviously did."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1366.68,"endTime":1368.54,"body":"And on Korra, which is,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1369.05,"endTime":1373.57,"body":"you know, kind of more YA sensibility, like"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1369.05,"endTime":1373.57,"body":"because they're teenagers, they're older, we,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1373.69,"endTime":1379.026,"body":"we did a lot of stuff that even now, like, how"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1373.69,"endTime":1379.026,"body":"did we get away with that stuff?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1379.058,"endTime":1386.69,"body":"We had a murder suicide, we had Cora going"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1379.058,"endTime":1386.69,"body":"through PTSD and you know, dealing with, with"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1386.81,"endTime":1387.906,"body":"the trauma of that."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1387.978,"endTime":1388.59,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1390.81,"endTime":1398.092,"body":"But yeah, I always noticed in the, in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1390.81,"endTime":1398.092,"body":"publishing world like that it did seem like"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1398.116,"endTime":1398.92,"body":"there was."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1399.46,"endTime":1401.692,"body":"I don't want to say there's a different"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1399.46,"endTime":1401.692,"body":"standard, but maybe there was."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1401.716,"endTime":1407.004,"body":"They don't have the people saying like the"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1401.716,"endTime":1407.004,"body":"standards department saying, you can't use the"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1407.012,"endTime":1408.68,"body":"word dead in this book,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1409.46,"endTime":1410.84,"body":"as far as I know."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1411.62,"endTime":1412.316,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1412.428,"endTime":1415.804,"body":"So I think that's"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1412.428,"endTime":1415.804,"body":"part of the difference for sure."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1415.892,"endTime":1420.04,"body":"And then, yeah, just again, I think it's just"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1415.892,"endTime":1420.04,"body":"my natural sensibility of like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1421.96,"endTime":1426.816,"body":"I didn't really question it when we were doing"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1421.96,"endTime":1426.816,"body":"it on the show because it just felt like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1426.848,"endTime":1428.62,"body":"this is the story we want to tell."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1428.92,"endTime":1431.232,"body":"It's a war, you know, but maybe that."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1431.256,"endTime":1432.432,"body":"Yeah, because it's fantasy."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1432.496,"endTime":1434.1,"body":"There is a little bit of distance,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1434.84,"endTime":1435.392,"body":"but it was."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1435.416,"endTime":1437.072,"body":"Yeah, it's a war torn world."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1437.256,"endTime":1443.9,"body":"They gotta fight the fire nation who's doing"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1437.256,"endTime":1443.9,"body":"not great things to the world."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1444.68,"endTime":1448.272,"body":"So, you know, I think it's just, it comes up"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1444.68,"endTime":1448.272,"body":"naturally through the storytelling."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1448.336,"endTime":1450.536,"body":"And then, yeah, like you mentioned Zuko"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1448.336,"endTime":1450.536,"body":"earlier."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1450.728,"endTime":1456.504,"body":"I mean, part of that is he was like basically"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1450.728,"endTime":1456.504,"body":"physically and emotionally abused as a child"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1456.672,"endTime":1459.22,"body":"by his father, who's the bad guy at the story."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1460.64,"endTime":1465.048,"body":"And I think part of the reason it is so"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1460.64,"endTime":1465.048,"body":"resonant and people still talk about it is"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1465.104,"endTime":1467.976,"body":"like it showed him overcoming it."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1468.048,"endTime":1468.904,"body":"Like he didn't."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1469.032,"endTime":1470.312,"body":"Even though he did some."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1470.416,"endTime":1479.046,"body":"He also did some terrible stuff and you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1470.416,"endTime":1479.046,"body":"betrayed people and he was, he had a good"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1479.118,"endTime":1483.398,"body":"heart deep down and he kind of had to find it"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1479.118,"endTime":1483.398,"body":"and rediscover it."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1483.454,"endTime":1489.862,"body":"And so, yeah, similar with Jack. Like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1483.454,"endTime":1489.862,"body":"actually probably Jack is more like Zuko than"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1490.046,"endTime":1490.81,"body":"Aang."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1493.07,"endTime":1494.326,"body":"And yeah, like even."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1494.478,"endTime":1496.822,"body":"I guess that's the point too I look at the"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1496.846,"endTime":1500.07,"body":"endings of things of, like, what am I supposed"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1496.846,"endTime":1500.07,"body":"to take away with this?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1500.11,"endTime":1501.862,"body":"Am I supposed to do?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1501.886,"endTime":1508.854,"body":"You come away feeling like, oh, my God, life"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1501.886,"endTime":1508.854,"body":"is hopeless and we are all going to die, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1508.862,"endTime":1514.09,"body":"it's terrible, or is like, despite all this"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1508.862,"endTime":1514.09,"body":"terrible stuff that has occurred,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1514.67,"endTime":1515.862,"body":"there is a way through."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1515.966,"endTime":1516.534,"body":"And that's."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1516.582,"endTime":1519.894,"body":"You know, that's what I tried to do with this"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1516.582,"endTime":1519.894,"body":"book is like, there's still."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1520.062,"endTime":1521.702,"body":"There is some hope at the end."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1521.726,"endTime":1524.55,"body":"And Jack does go through an arc that, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1524.59,"endTime":1526.05,"body":"know, forces him to,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1526.59,"endTime":1527.43,"body":"you know, like."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1527.47,"endTime":1530.006,"body":"Like most good books, like, the protagonist"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1530.038,"endTime":1535.102,"body":"does not want to deal with the stuff they"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1530.038,"endTime":1535.102,"body":"gotta deal with until the very end when they"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1535.126,"endTime":1536.85,"body":"have their moment."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1537.43,"endTime":1539.55,"body":"And if it's tragedy, they don't deal with it."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1539.59,"endTime":1542.57,"body":"And you're Shakespeare and everybody dies and"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1543.27,"endTime":1545.57,"body":"it's a tragic ending."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1546.15,"endTime":1549.934,"body":"I think I'm just more naturally drawn to that."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1550.102,"endTime":1552.83,"body":"These are more prescriptive stories in a way,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1552.87,"endTime":1553.85,"body":"where it's like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1554.39,"endTime":1561.332,"body":"here is an example of a character going"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1554.39,"endTime":1561.332,"body":"through the worst possible thing for this"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1561.356,"endTime":1568.74,"body":"character to go through, and they find a way"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1561.356,"endTime":1568.74,"body":"through it, and there's always a little hope"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1568.78,"endTime":1569.652,"body":"at the end."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1569.836,"endTime":1575.572,"body":"Yeah. I think one thing that you have"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1569.836,"endTime":1575.572,"body":"done really well in both Here and Gone, and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1575.596,"endTime":1581.156,"body":"also obviously, in the Avatar world is just"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1575.596,"endTime":1581.156,"body":"the amount of agency that you're still giving"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1581.188,"endTime":1583.508,"body":"to your characters even in these really hard"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1581.188,"endTime":1583.508,"body":"times."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1583.564,"endTime":1584.8,"body":"They don't feel like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1585.2,"endTime":1591.352,"body":"you know, like, the gang is never just a group"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1585.2,"endTime":1591.352,"body":"of kids that are just floating around on"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1591.376,"endTime":1593.384,"body":"Appa's back, you know, like, they're doing"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1591.376,"endTime":1593.384,"body":"things."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1593.472,"endTime":1594.568,"body":"They're doing things."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1594.704,"endTime":1598.632,"body":"And, like, even Jack, in the midst of his, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1598.656,"endTime":1599.22,"body":"know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1600.08,"endTime":1601.272,"body":"I don't want to do any of this."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1601.296,"endTime":1601.752,"body":"I hate it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1601.776,"endTime":1602.392,"body":"This sucks."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1602.456,"endTime":1602.968,"body":"Why?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1603.104,"endTime":1604.552,"body":"No, get away from me."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1604.576,"endTime":1607.272,"body":"Like, he still is doing things, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1607.296,"endTime":1610.488,"body":"like, it's a choice when he's going to."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1610.544,"endTime":1614.644,"body":"Like you mentioned the scene earlier with"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1610.544,"endTime":1614.644,"body":"Rennie where Rennie pulls up on the."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1614.732,"endTime":1615.652,"body":"At the mall."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1615.796,"endTime":1618.436,"body":"It's like a choice of his to be like, he's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1618.468,"endTime":1620.74,"body":"trying to kidnap me to that mall cop."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1620.82,"endTime":1622.052,"body":"You know, like, that made me laugh."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1622.116,"endTime":1623.86,"body":"I was like, oh, no. He's actually saying,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1623.9,"endTime":1625.396,"body":"like, nope, I'm not gonna help you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1625.468,"endTime":1628.452,"body":"Like, for some context, Rennie, one of these"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1628.476,"endTime":1633.684,"body":"characters drives up to the side of this curb"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1628.476,"endTime":1633.684,"body":"at the mall and is looking for his dog."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1633.812,"endTime":1634.564,"body":"And so he."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1634.652,"endTime":1636.676,"body":"He's kind of like a. They call him the creepy"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1636.708,"endTime":1637.78,"body":"guy or something in the town."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1637.82,"endTime":1638.772,"body":"Like, nobody really likes him."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1638.796,"endTime":1640.12,"body":"He's a town outcast."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1640.46,"endTime":1645.364,"body":"And he asked Jack, have you seen my dog?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1640.46,"endTime":1645.364,"body":"And then this mall cop comes up and is like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1645.372,"endTime":1648.212,"body":"is this guy bothering you?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1645.372,"endTime":1648.212,"body":"And Jack's like, yeah, he's bothering me."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1648.236,"endTime":1649.38,"body":"He's trying to kidnap me."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1649.5,"endTime":1651.252,"body":"And then, like, he just totally doesn't."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1651.316,"endTime":1652.276,"body":"He doesn't want to help."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1652.348,"endTime":1654.644,"body":"But later, you know, it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1654.732,"endTime":1658.724,"body":"It's not too far later, but he finds the dog"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1654.732,"endTime":1658.724,"body":"and he takes it back to Rennie's house."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1658.812,"endTime":1662.72,"body":"Yeah, I. I think, like, Jack still has a lot"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1658.812,"endTime":1662.72,"body":"of choice, and,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1663.26,"endTime":1666.95,"body":"like, your younger characters still find that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1663.26,"endTime":1666.95,"body":"really well,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1667.41,"endTime":1671.562,"body":"as authors, I think it's really easy to look"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1667.41,"endTime":1671.562,"body":"at our younger characters and be like, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1671.586,"endTime":1673.13,"body":"don't have a lot of choice because you're"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1671.586,"endTime":1673.13,"body":"young."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1673.17,"endTime":1677.642,"body":"It's like, no, our younger characters still"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1673.17,"endTime":1677.642,"body":"have oodles of choice, like, tons of choice."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1677.786,"endTime":1681.53,"body":"And that's the beauty of their situation, is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1677.786,"endTime":1681.53,"body":"how they find their way through it is through"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1681.57,"endTime":1682.35,"body":"that choice."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1682.93,"endTime":1685.642,"body":"Yeah. I think that's"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1682.93,"endTime":1685.642,"body":"a good thing to think about with your"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1685.666,"endTime":1689.19,"body":"characters is like, what agency do they have?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1690.45,"endTime":1693.14,"body":"Because I think there's scale of."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1693.52,"endTime":1697.528,"body":"You could have all the power in the world, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1693.52,"endTime":1697.528,"body":"maybe you could make any choice you want."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1697.664,"endTime":1699.912,"body":"But even, like, yeah, a kid has."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1700.096,"endTime":1702.136,"body":"Their agency might be limited because of"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1702.208,"endTime":1704.86,"body":"school or parents or rules or whatever,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1705.36,"endTime":1709.704,"body":"but in their world, yeah, like, every day"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1705.36,"endTime":1709.704,"body":"there's, like, choices to be made."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1709.792,"endTime":1715.352,"body":"And I think that's what makes the characters"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1709.792,"endTime":1715.352,"body":"interesting is, like, the actions they are"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1715.376,"endTime":1716.6,"body":"taking in the story."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1716.72,"endTime":1722.322,"body":"So. So that was one big part of the revision"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1716.72,"endTime":1722.322,"body":"process, was, like, going scene by scene and"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1722.346,"endTime":1724.31,"body":"being like, okay, in this scene,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1725.13,"endTime":1729.89,"body":"it's not just Jack moping around and you're"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1725.13,"endTime":1729.89,"body":"all in his head."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1729.93,"endTime":1731.986,"body":"And it's just, you know."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1732.058,"endTime":1733.682,"body":"Because I think, like, especially with"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1733.706,"endTime":1736.51,"body":"literary novels, that can become a thing where"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1733.706,"endTime":1736.51,"body":"you're just, like."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1737.13,"endTime":1739.426,"body":"You're kind of mired in the character's"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1737.13,"endTime":1739.426,"body":"headspace."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1739.458,"endTime":1742.786,"body":"And that's fine for a while, but at some"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1739.458,"endTime":1742.786,"body":"point, you're like, nothing's happening."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1742.818,"endTime":1744.11,"body":"I need something to happen."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1745.29,"endTime":1750.082,"body":"I think we're just wired that way for story,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1745.29,"endTime":1750.082,"body":"where it's just like, you want to see the"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1750.106,"endTime":1751.954,"body":"character take some kind of action."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1752.042,"endTime":1752.67,"body":"So,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1753.53,"endTime":1756.178,"body":"yeah, a lot of times it was small things like"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1753.53,"endTime":1756.178,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1756.234,"endTime":1757.07,"body":"It's like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1757.45,"endTime":1761.618,"body":"Jack didn't have a ton of choice, but he had a"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1757.45,"endTime":1761.618,"body":"choice to make."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1761.674,"endTime":1762.27,"body":"Like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1763.21,"endTime":1768.47,"body":"do I be nice to this guy, or do I turn my back"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1763.21,"endTime":1768.47,"body":"on him and call him a kidnapper?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1769.29,"endTime":1770.648,"body":"He takes the."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1770.834,"endTime":1772.908,"body":"You know, most of the story he's making not"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1772.964,"endTime":1774.32,"body":"great choices."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1775.38,"endTime":1776.364,"body":"And, like."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1776.532,"endTime":1778.108,"body":"And even from the beginning, like, he finds"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1778.124,"endTime":1779.596,"body":"out his mom's gonna sell the house."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1779.668,"endTime":1782.348,"body":"So a big part of the plot is like, him, like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1782.484,"endTime":1783.98,"body":"I'm not gonna let her sell the house."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1784.02,"endTime":1785.404,"body":"I'm gonna sabotage this."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1785.492,"endTime":1788.28,"body":"And so he's taking steps to try to."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1788.98,"endTime":1789.868,"body":"Again, not."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1789.924,"endTime":1792.732,"body":"Not the greatest decision, but he's like."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1792.756,"endTime":1798.076,"body":"He has a goal, you know, he has a goal in mind"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1792.756,"endTime":1798.076,"body":"of, like, I'm gonna keep this house."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1798.148,"endTime":1799.56,"body":"Because he thinks that will,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1800.59,"endTime":1807.174,"body":"you know, make everything okay and make the"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1800.59,"endTime":1807.174,"body":"bad stuff go away and he can return to normal"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1807.222,"endTime":1809.41,"body":"and make everything go back to the way it was."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1810.67,"endTime":1812.29,"body":"Okay, so with, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1813.15,"endTime":1819.814,"body":"the planning, I guess I want to talk for a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1813.15,"endTime":1819.814,"body":"second just about the craft that you've had"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1819.902,"endTime":1823.254,"body":"behind both here and gone, and the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1819.902,"endTime":1823.254,"body":"differences, which you've already shared a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1823.262,"endTime":1823.926,"body":"little bit about."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1823.998,"endTime":1831.872,"body":"But how do you feel like the storytelling"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1823.998,"endTime":1831.872,"body":"knowledge is applicable across, you know, all"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1831.896,"endTime":1836.896,"body":"these mediums?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1831.896,"endTime":1836.896,"body":"Because to me, like, I can still see such"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1836.968,"endTime":1839.664,"body":"fundamental common denominators, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1836.968,"endTime":1839.664,"body":"between."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1839.752,"endTime":1842.592,"body":"I mean, story itself is change."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1842.696,"endTime":1843.36,"body":"Stories change."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1843.4,"endTime":1845.06,"body":"Like, you have the same principles,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1845.88,"endTime":1852.212,"body":"but how do you feel like you've kind of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1845.88,"endTime":1852.212,"body":"learned or grown since the early parts of your"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1852.236,"endTime":1856.452,"body":"career and then applied some of that same"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1852.236,"endTime":1856.452,"body":"knowledge or some of that different execution"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1856.516,"endTime":1857.86,"body":"to, like, both here and gone?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1857.94,"endTime":1861.08,"body":"What was that like to approach these two"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1857.94,"endTime":1861.08,"body":"things a little differently?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1861.9,"endTime":1866.772,"body":"Yeah, I'm always"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1861.9,"endTime":1866.772,"body":"trying to learn how to tell stories better"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1866.956,"endTime":1867.796,"body":"because it is."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1867.868,"endTime":1870.452,"body":"There's this, like, even when you have the"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1870.476,"endTime":1872.32,"body":"smartest writers in a room,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1873.34,"endTime":1874.9,"body":"it. You would think all."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1874.94,"endTime":1876.724,"body":"You'd all figured out real easy."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1876.772,"endTime":1878.228,"body":"And it's not easy."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1878.404,"endTime":1879.76,"body":"It's still, like."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1880.45,"endTime":1885.946,"body":"It's still a. In some ways, a mysterious"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1880.45,"endTime":1885.946,"body":"process of, like, how do you get to this"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1886.018,"endTime":1891.87,"body":"finished script or novel or whatever it is?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1886.018,"endTime":1891.87,"body":"I mean, a couple of things that I've"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1892.77,"endTime":1896.39,"body":"definitely learned since the early days is,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1896.85,"endTime":1899.51,"body":"and especially with this book was like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1900.85,"endTime":1904.71,"body":"what are you trying to say with your book?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1900.85,"endTime":1904.71,"body":"Like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1905.18,"endTime":1910.292,"body":"some people call it theme, I guess, or a"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1905.18,"endTime":1910.292,"body":"premise, or the argument you're trying to"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1910.316,"endTime":1910.596,"body":"make."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1910.668,"endTime":1912.004,"body":"We call it a story point."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1912.092,"endTime":1912.836,"body":"Story point."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1912.908,"endTime":1913.92,"body":"Yeah. It's like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1914.62,"endTime":1917.88,"body":"what is the point of this story?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1914.62,"endTime":1917.88,"body":"Like, why am I gonna spend."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1918.54,"endTime":1919.684,"body":"Why is the reader gonna."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1919.732,"endTime":1922.96,"body":"Or the viewer gonna spend an hour or 10 hours"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1923.5,"endTime":1927.08,"body":"reading or watching this thing?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1923.5,"endTime":1927.08,"body":"And then why am I, as the writer,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1928.22,"endTime":1931.988,"body":"gonna spend years of my life working on this"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1928.22,"endTime":1931.988,"body":"thing?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1932.044,"endTime":1937.59,"body":"You know, it's gotta be something really that"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1932.044,"endTime":1937.59,"body":"you really believe in."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1939.17,"endTime":1939.91,"body":"So,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1940.29,"endTime":1942.47,"body":"yeah, I think at the core, it's like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1942.93,"endTime":1949.866,"body":"when you're starting out and this might come"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1942.93,"endTime":1949.866,"body":"early on, it might come later, after you've"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1949.898,"endTime":1953.882,"body":"written some stuff and you're just figuring"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1949.898,"endTime":1953.882,"body":"out, what am I trying to say with this stuff?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1953.946,"endTime":1961.402,"body":"Usually there's something inside of you that"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1953.946,"endTime":1961.402,"body":"is trying to find a voice, I think, and it"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1961.426,"endTime":1962.11,"body":"depends,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1962.93,"endTime":1968.89,"body":"I think, because probably a lot of writers"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1962.93,"endTime":1968.89,"body":"like myself, very introverted, who didn't grow"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1968.93,"endTime":1973.43,"body":"up, like, expounding orally to people."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1975.25,"endTime":1978.058,"body":"You know, I think that's where I stand to this"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1975.25,"endTime":1978.058,"body":"day."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1978.114,"endTime":1983.31,"body":"Still find the way I really express myself is"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1978.114,"endTime":1983.31,"body":"through stories."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1984.29,"endTime":1985.338,"body":"That's where it comes out."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1985.394,"endTime":1987.802,"body":"Like, obviously, I can talk to people, talk to"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1987.826,"endTime":1993.632,"body":"my wife about how I'm feeling, but it's just"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1987.826,"endTime":1993.632,"body":"like, it's a different way of unearthing this"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1993.656,"endTime":1994.0,"body":"stuff."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1994.08,"endTime":2001.18,"body":"So I do feel like it is a. In some ways, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":1994.08,"endTime":2001.18,"body":"a cathartic process for the writer of, like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2002.6,"endTime":2004.784,"body":"unearthing this stuff, putting it on the page."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2004.832,"endTime":2007.392,"body":"But then you want it to be like, it's not"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2007.416,"endTime":2007.6,"body":"just."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2007.64,"endTime":2009.26,"body":"You're not just writing in a journal,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2009.64,"endTime":2011.02,"body":"just, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2012.36,"endTime":2016.48,"body":"like, spewing your thoughts out randomly in a"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2012.36,"endTime":2016.48,"body":"journal."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2016.52,"endTime":2022.36,"body":"It's like you then have to, like, how do I"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2016.52,"endTime":2022.36,"body":"communicate this to an audience so they get it"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2022.4,"endTime":2024.504,"body":"as well?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2022.4,"endTime":2024.504,"body":"And then that's where I feel like the craft"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2024.552,"endTime":2026.18,"body":"stuff comes in of,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2027.44,"endTime":2028.5,"body":"like I said,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2028.96,"endTime":2034.104,"body":"is there an inciting incident in your story"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2028.96,"endTime":2034.104,"body":"that kicks it off?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2034.192,"endTime":2040.52,"body":"Is there a turning point in a scene or a story"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2034.192,"endTime":2040.52,"body":"that forces the character to make a choice?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2040.68,"endTime":2045.3,"body":"And then we see them make the choice, and then"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2040.68,"endTime":2045.3,"body":"we."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2045.44,"endTime":2047.708,"body":"What happens after they make that choice?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2045.44,"endTime":2047.708,"body":"Was it."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2047.764,"endTime":2050.92,"body":"Was there a good outcome or a bad outcome or."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2051.7,"endTime":2052.48,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2052.9,"endTime":2055.596,"body":"So, yeah, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2052.9,"endTime":2055.596,"body":"the principles I still use."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2055.668,"endTime":2058.636,"body":"I don't know if you guys are familiar with"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2055.668,"endTime":2058.636,"body":"Storygrid at all."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2058.708,"endTime":2061.036,"body":"Yeah, but that's the one."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2061.108,"endTime":2064.636,"body":"Like, of all the methodologies, that one makes"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2064.708,"endTime":2066.2,"body":"the most sense to me."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2066.58,"endTime":2068.12,"body":"And it is more for."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2069.14,"endTime":2071.842,"body":"I mean, it applies to all stories, but I feel"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2069.14,"endTime":2071.842,"body":"like it."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2071.996,"endTime":2074.45,"body":"It is more for novelists, which."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2075.79,"endTime":2079.91,"body":"There's so many books on how to write"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2075.79,"endTime":2079.91,"body":"screenplays and how to do that stuff."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2079.99,"endTime":2085.398,"body":"And when I was floundering around trying to do"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2079.99,"endTime":2085.398,"body":"my middle grade novels, I was like, where's"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2085.414,"endTime":2086.918,"body":"the thing for the novelists?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2087.014,"endTime":2087.97,"body":"How do I."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2089.31,"endTime":2091.93,"body":"How do I take all those ideas?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2089.31,"endTime":2091.93,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2092.51,"endTime":2094.25,"body":"We borrowed Save the Cat."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2095.47,"endTime":2098.358,"body":"Yeah. And, like, some"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2095.47,"endTime":2098.358,"body":"of those are useful to a certain point."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2098.414,"endTime":2099.57,"body":"And then I find them."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2100.08,"endTime":2100.82,"body":"Like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2101.84,"endTime":2105.88,"body":"I think that's part because, like, Save the"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2101.84,"endTime":2105.88,"body":"Cat can tell you, like, these things should"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2105.92,"endTime":2106.552,"body":"happen."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2106.736,"endTime":2108.312,"body":"It doesn't really tell you why they should"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2108.336,"endTime":2108.712,"body":"happen."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2108.816,"endTime":2110.696,"body":"And that's the part I always feel like is"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2110.768,"endTime":2113.704,"body":"often missing from writing books."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2113.752,"endTime":2115.912,"body":"Like, they'll give you the template sort of."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2115.936,"endTime":2117.832,"body":"Which is, again, is helpful if you're like, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2117.856,"endTime":2119.7,"body":"have no idea where to even start."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2121.52,"endTime":2123.86,"body":"But often I could find myself, like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2125.12,"endTime":2130.22,"body":"I could piece all these scenes together, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2125.12,"endTime":2130.22,"body":"then it doesn't really amount to anything."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2130.8,"endTime":2131.368,"body":"Which is."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2131.424,"endTime":2132.744,"body":"I think that's the hard."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2132.832,"endTime":2133.24,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2133.32,"endTime":2135.528,"body":"The hard part about"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2133.32,"endTime":2135.528,"body":"writing this."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2135.584,"endTime":2135.816,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2135.848,"endTime":2138.248,"body":"Is like, how to have it all mean something"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2138.304,"endTime":2139.192,"body":"when you get to the."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2139.296,"endTime":2140.42,"body":"To the end of it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2141.2,"endTime":2141.816,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2141.928,"endTime":2142.824,"body":"I'm curious."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2142.952,"endTime":2145.14,"body":"So you talked about how you like to,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2145.76,"endTime":2149.576,"body":"you know, process a lot of stuff through your"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2145.76,"endTime":2149.576,"body":"creativity, which I think is."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2149.648,"endTime":2152.2,"body":"That's why we create as humans."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2152.36,"endTime":2153.0,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2153.04,"endTime":2157.56,"body":"But I'm curious, like, is that process for"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2153.04,"endTime":2157.56,"body":"you, is that different when you're working on,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2158.9,"endTime":2163.484,"body":"you know, when you're working with a team on a"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2158.9,"endTime":2163.484,"body":"show versus, like, your own novel?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2163.532,"endTime":2168.492,"body":"Like, are you collaborative when you write"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2163.532,"endTime":2168.492,"body":"your novels, or is it just collaborative with"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2168.516,"endTime":2168.716,"body":"tv?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2168.748,"endTime":2172.36,"body":"And, like, does that affect how you kind of"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2168.748,"endTime":2172.36,"body":"process things or, like, what comes out?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2173.46,"endTime":2178.412,"body":"Yeah, I mean, the TV"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2173.46,"endTime":2178.412,"body":"stuff is definitely way more collaborative"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2178.476,"endTime":2179.116,"body":"because you're."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2179.228,"endTime":2182.138,"body":"Even though we've created these stories and"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2182.194,"endTime":2182.83,"body":"stuff,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2183.41,"endTime":2184.39,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2185.41,"endTime":2191.13,"body":"and in a way, like, it always starts with me"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2185.41,"endTime":2191.13,"body":"and Brian alone, and then slowly we get teams."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2191.21,"endTime":2191.93,"body":"Teams and people."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2191.97,"endTime":2193.626,"body":"And now we have, like, so many people working."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2193.698,"endTime":2194.35,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2195.41,"endTime":2195.866,"body":"So it's."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2195.898,"endTime":2197.418,"body":"Yeah, it's hugely collaborative."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2197.514,"endTime":2199.514,"body":"And that."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2199.602,"endTime":2202.842,"body":"That part of the, like, the idea phase and"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2203.026,"endTime":2205.67,"body":"what does it mean?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2203.026,"endTime":2205.67,"body":"And stuff like that is, like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2206.7,"endTime":2210.72,"body":"kind of baked in early on in the development"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2206.7,"endTime":2210.72,"body":"process."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2212.46,"endTime":2214.532,"body":"So it's a mix because it's."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2214.676,"endTime":2215.044,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2215.092,"endTime":2217.8,"body":"On the one hand, like, it's my sensibility,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2218.7,"endTime":2220.196,"body":"but that's also Brian's."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2220.228,"endTime":2221.572,"body":"And also the writer who's coming in."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2221.596,"endTime":2223.44,"body":"And also, you know, so you're like."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2225.82,"endTime":2231.84,"body":"If you're all in rough sync about, like, what"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2225.82,"endTime":2231.84,"body":"this story should be, it can work pretty well."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2232.31,"endTime":2237.694,"body":"Sometimes you have an idea of what the story"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2232.31,"endTime":2237.694,"body":"was supposed to be and the writer had a"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2237.702,"endTime":2240.574,"body":"totally different idea because they're"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2237.702,"endTime":2240.574,"body":"bringing something else to the table."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2240.622,"endTime":2243.21,"body":"And then, you know, then you gotta figure out,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2240.622,"endTime":2243.21,"body":"like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2244.07,"endTime":2247.73,"body":"where the two ideas sort of overlap and where"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2244.07,"endTime":2247.73,"body":"they don't."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2249.03,"endTime":2253.342,"body":"Yeah. I mean, I think novel writing is also"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2249.03,"endTime":2253.342,"body":"collaborative because you're gonna probably be"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2253.366,"endTime":2256.57,"body":"working with an editor or along the way,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2257.03,"endTime":2263.11,"body":"but it's definitely much more solo venture, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2257.03,"endTime":2263.11,"body":"feel like."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2264.13,"endTime":2265.962,"body":"And I think that's what I like about it."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2265.986,"endTime":2266.234,"body":"It's."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2266.282,"endTime":2267.91,"body":"It does balance out, like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2268.53,"endTime":2270.794,"body":"my day job now, which is like, I'm."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2270.842,"endTime":2273.498,"body":"I gotta be in meetings and talk about story"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2273.554,"endTime":2274.154,"body":"with everybody."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2274.202,"endTime":2276.25,"body":"And then sometimes you just want to be in a"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2276.29,"endTime":2277.31,"body":"room by yourself."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2278.05,"endTime":2278.666,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2278.778,"endTime":2279.45,"body":"Writing."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2279.61,"endTime":2283.85,"body":"Figuring stuff out and not worry about, like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2283.89,"endTime":2284.426,"body":"oh, my gosh."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2284.458,"endTime":2287.788,"body":"Or is this gonna be popular enough to be on"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2287.844,"endTime":2289.116,"body":"what everybody else likes?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2289.148,"endTime":2291.36,"body":"Yeah, that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2292.42,"endTime":2297.676,"body":"Yeah. So you took both here and gotten"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2292.42,"endTime":2297.676,"body":"is indie published, Is that right?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2297.828,"endTime":2302.508,"body":"Yeah. I decided, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2297.828,"endTime":2302.508,"body":"mean I had that experience with the middle"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2302.524,"endTime":2303.6,"body":"grade novels."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2304.26,"endTime":2305.68,"body":"It was fine."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2306.58,"endTime":2316.742,"body":"I didn't get to finish the series but so I"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2306.58,"endTime":2316.742,"body":"think partly because I knew this was like a, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2316.766,"endTime":2320.982,"body":"didn't, I didn't want the pressure of like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2316.766,"endTime":2320.982,"body":"oh, I gotta turn this draft at a certain"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2321.006,"endTime":2321.19,"body":"point."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2321.23,"endTime":2326.374,"body":"Like it literally for years was just like my"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2321.23,"endTime":2326.374,"body":"secret side project that like two people knew"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2326.422,"endTime":2327.01,"body":"about."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2329.23,"endTime":2329.894,"body":"And then."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2329.982,"endTime":2331.99,"body":"Yeah. When it came to like, okay, well now"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2332.03,"endTime":2334.214,"body":"I've, you know, I paid for my own editor."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2334.262,"endTime":2337.444,"body":"I paid for, you know, getting it copy edited,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2337.492,"endTime":2345.812,"body":"like did all the stuff you should do and I did"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2337.492,"endTime":2345.812,"body":"send out some query letters and got a couple"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2345.876,"endTime":2349.412,"body":"people who read it which were a couple agents"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2345.876,"endTime":2349.412,"body":"who read it,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2349.516,"endTime":2352.772,"body":"which was super cool of them and they liked"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2349.516,"endTime":2352.772,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2352.796,"endTime":2356.884,"body":"But the thing I kept hearing was it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2352.796,"endTime":2356.884,"body":"commercial enough."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2356.972,"endTime":2358.96,"body":"And I was like, yeah, I know."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2360.3,"endTime":2362.28,"body":"That was not, that wasn't deploying."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2363.26,"endTime":2366.582,"body":"But I think that is"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2363.26,"endTime":2366.582,"body":"the, the challenge with the business of you"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2366.606,"endTime":2366.886,"body":"know."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2366.958,"endTime":2370.342,"body":"Yes, the book business because like I've been"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2370.366,"endTime":2376.13,"body":"on the other side so I totally get where the"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2370.366,"endTime":2376.13,"body":"editors and agents come from, where it's like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2377.31,"endTime":2380.486,"body":"you know, ultimately at the end of the day"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2377.31,"endTime":2380.486,"body":"these companies want to make money."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2380.558,"endTime":2384.25,"body":"They're, they're, they're not like non for"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2380.558,"endTime":2384.25,"body":"profit organizations."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2384.67,"endTime":2385.45,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2385.87,"endTime":2389.862,"body":"So you know, they're"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2385.87,"endTime":2389.862,"body":"going to look for books that they think even"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2389.886,"endTime":2395.13,"body":"if they're modest, you know, sellers like that"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2389.886,"endTime":2395.13,"body":"they're, they're not going to lose money."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2396.47,"endTime":2402.782,"body":"So it was a good exercise though because I got"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2396.47,"endTime":2402.782,"body":"some good feedback and then I just decided"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2402.846,"endTime":2403.45,"body":"like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2403.83,"endTime":2408.846,"body":"yeah, I'm gonna, you know, I'd been learning"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2403.83,"endTime":2408.846,"body":"about self publishing and sort of had my eye"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2408.878,"endTime":2410.65,"body":"on like doing that with this."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2411.11,"endTime":2413.73,"body":"So I just, Yeah, I hired a cover designer,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2414.07,"endTime":2415.21,"body":"finished it up,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2416.87,"endTime":2419.214,"body":"did all the formatting stuff, all that fun"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2416.87,"endTime":2419.214,"body":"stuff."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2419.262,"endTime":2425.83,"body":"Like I kind of like, because I'm used to like"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2419.262,"endTime":2425.83,"body":"producing animation so like that stuff wasn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2426.65,"endTime":2430.786,"body":"too like I didn't know how to do it all but"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2426.65,"endTime":2430.786,"body":"like I knew I could learn how to do it."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2430.938,"endTime":2434.83,"body":"Yeah. And then if I didn't I could find the"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2430.938,"endTime":2434.83,"body":"people who could help me."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2436.01,"endTime":2441.602,"body":"So yeah, I released it last year mainly on"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2436.01,"endTime":2441.602,"body":"Amazon and through and then I have it through"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2441.626,"endTime":2443.23,"body":"my website as well."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2443.61,"endTime":2448.622,"body":"I'm gonna, the next step is looking at like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2443.61,"endTime":2448.622,"body":"oh, how do I like make this go wider?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2448.766,"endTime":2455.726,"body":"Like, yeah, you know, Amazon obviously has its"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2448.766,"endTime":2455.726,"body":"issues but it also is like the biggest."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2455.758,"endTime":2459.13,"body":"You know, I was like, I just, I just need to"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2455.758,"endTime":2459.13,"body":"focus on one thing at first,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2460.07,"endTime":2465.09,"body":"hopefully get the word out and then, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2460.07,"endTime":2465.09,"body":"just kind of slowly,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2465.91,"endTime":2469.01,"body":"you know, that's what I like about books, too,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2465.91,"endTime":2469.01,"body":"is, like, it doesn't."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2469.43,"endTime":2473.038,"body":"It doesn't have to be the biggest hit, like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2469.43,"endTime":2473.038,"body":"in the first year."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2473.094,"endTime":2478.014,"body":"Like, I've read so many stories about novels"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2473.094,"endTime":2478.014,"body":"that, like, you know, it sold okay for the"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2478.022,"endTime":2483.742,"body":"first couple years, and then for some reason,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2478.022,"endTime":2483.742,"body":"you know, it reached this threshold and people"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2483.766,"endTime":2485.246,"body":"were talking about it, and then it became,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2485.278,"endTime":2486.942,"body":"like, a bestseller and stuff."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2487.006,"endTime":2487.374,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2487.462,"endTime":2487.726,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2487.758,"endTime":2491.022,"body":"And all the, like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2487.758,"endTime":2491.022,"body":"feedback I've gotten on the book so far has"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2491.046,"endTime":2492.542,"body":"been, like, super positive."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2492.606,"endTime":2493.87,"body":"And that's incredible."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2493.95,"endTime":2494.73,"body":"The right."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2495.19,"endTime":2499.198,"body":"The right audience is slowly finding it, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2495.19,"endTime":2499.198,"body":"know, like."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2499.254,"endTime":2500.65,"body":"And it's a mix of, like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2502.4,"endTime":2504.792,"body":"younger readers, but then also, like, a lot"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2502.4,"endTime":2504.792,"body":"of."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2504.896,"endTime":2508.424,"body":"I think, like, women in their 60s, like, have"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2504.896,"endTime":2508.424,"body":"been reading."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2508.472,"endTime":2509.736,"body":"Like, I've gotten some."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2509.888,"endTime":2512.776,"body":"Some comments and, you know, like, emails"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2512.808,"endTime":2513.144,"body":"about."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2513.232,"endTime":2515.46,"body":"From. From people who are just like."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2515.92,"endTime":2520.232,"body":"Because I think there is an audience of, like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2515.92,"endTime":2520.232,"body":"older readers who read YA stuff because"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2520.256,"endTime":2523.512,"body":"there's a lot of good, you know, good YA stuff"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2520.256,"endTime":2523.512,"body":"out there, and."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2523.696,"endTime":2529.388,"body":"And they will deal with, you know, themes in a"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2523.696,"endTime":2529.388,"body":"different way than, you know, maybe some just,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2529.444,"endTime":2532.28,"body":"like, mainstream adult novels will."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2533.38,"endTime":2537.596,"body":"So it's a, you know, I think much like Avatar,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2533.38,"endTime":2537.596,"body":"which kind of appeals to all ages."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2537.628,"endTime":2539.24,"body":"Like, it was made for kids, but,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2539.62,"endTime":2540.62,"body":"yeah, parents."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2540.7,"endTime":2541.788,"body":"I watched it in college."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2541.884,"endTime":2545.036,"body":"Yeah, everybody"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2541.884,"endTime":2545.036,"body":"watches it and can find different things at"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2545.108,"endTime":2546.44,"body":"different ages, I think."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2546.82,"endTime":2552.332,"body":"I think maybe that is also just a natural"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2546.82,"endTime":2552.332,"body":"sensibility I have is like."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2552.436,"endTime":2557.67,"body":"Yeah, it is for, like, technically, I wrote it"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2552.436,"endTime":2557.67,"body":"for a YA audience, but it's a. It's a very."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2558.05,"endTime":2562.538,"body":"It's a story about loss and grief, which is"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2558.05,"endTime":2562.538,"body":"not just something kids go through."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2562.594,"endTime":2568.282,"body":"Like, we all go through it, and then we all"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2562.594,"endTime":2568.282,"body":"are trying to figure out how to navigate it in"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2568.306,"endTime":2568.89,"body":"different ways."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2568.97,"endTime":2569.658,"body":"There's also."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2569.794,"endTime":2571.354,"body":"There's also something powerful, I think"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2571.362,"endTime":2575.018,"body":"about, like, reading about younger kids going"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2571.362,"endTime":2575.018,"body":"through something that you went."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2575.074,"endTime":2578.954,"body":"You might have gone through as a kid and,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2575.074,"endTime":2578.954,"body":"like, healing your inner child somehow."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2579.082,"endTime":2580.01,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2580.13,"endTime":2580.602,"body":"Totally."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2580.666,"endTime":2581.952,"body":"I feel like that could."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2582.106,"endTime":2585.332,"body":"That's another reason why people read, you"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2585.356,"endTime":2586.164,"body":"know, younger stories."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2586.212,"endTime":2589.156,"body":"Yeah. It's not like"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2586.212,"endTime":2589.156,"body":"we all figured our stuff out when we turned"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2589.188,"endTime":2591.108,"body":"18, so."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2591.244,"endTime":2593.2,"body":"Nope, far from it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2593.9,"endTime":2595.348,"body":"So I didn't even know I had."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2595.404,"endTime":2597.76,"body":"Stuff until I was, like, 25."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2599.42,"endTime":2601.236,"body":"There's more stuff"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2599.42,"endTime":2601.236,"body":"underneath that stuff."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2601.268,"endTime":2607.08,"body":"And then you just keep unpacking all"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2601.268,"endTime":2607.08,"body":"the stuff and like, well, damn it, shoot."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2607.42,"endTime":2608.34,"body":"Totally."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2608.5,"endTime":2609.24,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2610.21,"endTime":2615.674,"body":"But that's what I"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2610.21,"endTime":2615.674,"body":"love about stories and novels also."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2615.762,"endTime":2616.026,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2616.058,"endTime":2617.37,"body":"I think novels specifically is."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2617.41,"endTime":2618.282,"body":"It does."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2618.466,"endTime":2623.802,"body":"You go on this very immersive experience in"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2623.826,"endTime":2624.266,"body":"your mind."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2624.338,"endTime":2626.234,"body":"It's different than sitting and watching a"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2626.242,"endTime":2632.522,"body":"Show, which can be immersive, obviously, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2626.242,"endTime":2632.522,"body":"it's just a very different experience, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2632.546,"endTime":2633.226,"body":"guess."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2633.418,"endTime":2634.79,"body":"And it's kind of an."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2635.36,"endTime":2642.3,"body":"An experience as humans, we've had longer than"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2635.36,"endTime":2642.3,"body":"we've had, you know, film and tv, obviously."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2643.76,"endTime":2651.048,"body":"So I think it's, you know, I'm always reading"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2643.76,"endTime":2651.048,"body":"the articles about the, like, people who"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2651.104,"endTime":2651.528,"body":"aren't."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2651.624,"endTime":2653.448,"body":"We don't read as much as we used to, and we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2653.464,"endTime":2656.792,"body":"all distracted and our attentions can't handle"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2653.464,"endTime":2656.792,"body":"long novels."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2656.856,"endTime":2663.61,"body":"And I'm like, I hope we don't lose that, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2656.856,"endTime":2663.61,"body":"know, And I'm trying to, like, even for"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2663.65,"endTime":2664.95,"body":"myself, just, like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2665.57,"endTime":2670.57,"body":"take a break from TV and, like, I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2665.57,"endTime":2670.57,"body":"read some classic novels that I've never read"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2670.61,"endTime":2670.954,"body":"before."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2671.042,"endTime":2675.91,"body":"And they're often much more interesting and"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2676.69,"endTime":2681.354,"body":"immersive than even, you know, the big movies"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2676.69,"endTime":2681.354,"body":"these days."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2681.442,"endTime":2682.83,"body":"So, yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2683.33,"endTime":2687.87,"body":"Yeah. I hope people keep reading long books"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2683.33,"endTime":2687.87,"body":"because that's all I can write."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2691.06,"endTime":2696.44,"body":"My current draft is sitting at, like 131 30K,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2691.06,"endTime":2696.44,"body":"and I'm like, not done."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2696.9,"endTime":2697.676,"body":"It's so funny."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2697.708,"endTime":2698.06,"body":"I really."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2698.1,"endTime":2699.836,"body":"I love reading long books."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2700.028,"endTime":2703.1,"body":"I found it so hard so far, hard to write long"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2703.14,"endTime":2703.436,"body":"books."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2703.468,"endTime":2705.44,"body":"But I do like reading."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2706.02,"endTime":2708.188,"body":"They're fun. Yeah. So I know you have."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2708.244,"endTime":2709.308,"body":"I know you have kids."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2709.404,"endTime":2711.356,"body":"You have twins, right?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2711.428,"endTime":2713.884,"body":"Yeah, I have twin"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2711.428,"endTime":2713.884,"body":"boys and girls."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2714.012,"endTime":2716.55,"body":"They're almost nine now."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2716.67,"endTime":2717.654,"body":"That's crazy."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2717.782,"endTime":2718.694,"body":"That's awesome."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2718.822,"endTime":2723.462,"body":"How do they deal with these kind of themes?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2718.822,"endTime":2723.462,"body":"I mean, are they reading material where"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2723.566,"endTime":2727.174,"body":"they're getting used to?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2723.566,"endTime":2727.174,"body":"Like, I feel like good versus evil is always"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2727.262,"endTime":2732.086,"body":"so it never goes away, you know, like, that we"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2727.262,"endTime":2732.086,"body":"teach kids, like, infants about good versus"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2732.118,"endTime":2732.326,"body":"evil."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2732.358,"endTime":2734.97,"body":"But, like, how do they deal with some of these"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2732.358,"endTime":2734.97,"body":"more serious themes?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2735.47,"endTime":2736.326,"body":"Yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2735.47,"endTime":2736.326,"body":"interesting."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2736.358,"endTime":2742.3,"body":"I mean, we try to be pretty open with our kids"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2736.358,"endTime":2742.3,"body":"and not, like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2743.88,"endTime":2744.62,"body":"not,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2746.12,"endTime":2748.96,"body":"you know, just expose them to whatever's"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2746.12,"endTime":2748.96,"body":"happening."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2749.04,"endTime":2751.568,"body":"Like, you know, there's death in the family."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2751.704,"endTime":2753.98,"body":"We'll talk about it if there's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2754.52,"endTime":2755.184,"body":"I think."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2755.272,"endTime":2757.952,"body":"I think that's the one big thing I kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2758.136,"endTime":2762.944,"body":"ended up learning from my own book was just,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2758.136,"endTime":2762.944,"body":"like, this idea of, like, acknowledging loss."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2763.032,"endTime":2764.22,"body":"It's not about, like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2764.92,"endTime":2766.016,"body":"solving the problem."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2766.088,"endTime":2768.986,"body":"Like I said, like, you can't solve it."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2769.058,"endTime":2775.962,"body":"But it's like so much of our culture and"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2769.058,"endTime":2775.962,"body":"depends on your family and probably your"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2775.986,"endTime":2776.746,"body":"religious upbringing."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2776.778,"endTime":2779.29,"body":"But, like, is like this sort of like, oh, that"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2779.33,"endTime":2779.834,"body":"doesn't."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2779.962,"endTime":2785.322,"body":"We don't talk about that stuff, or, yes, that"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2779.962,"endTime":2785.322,"body":"happened, but we're gonna pretend like it"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2785.346,"endTime":2788.154,"body":"didn't happen or that kind of stuff."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2788.202,"endTime":2790.07,"body":"So we're, you know, we're definitely trying to"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2790.85,"endTime":2796.022,"body":"have an environment where it's like they feel"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2790.85,"endTime":2796.022,"body":"like they could talk to us and we could talk"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2796.046,"endTime":2796.358,"body":"to them."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2796.414,"endTime":2798.502,"body":"And, you know, they have their own challenges."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2798.566,"endTime":2802.086,"body":"Like, my son was diagnosed with autism and,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2802.238,"endTime":2803.91,"body":"you know, he, he gets it."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2803.95,"endTime":2806.23,"body":"Like he, you know, we just talked talk about"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2806.27,"endTime":2811.334,"body":"what it means and how he processes stuff"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2806.27,"endTime":2811.334,"body":"differently and yeah, emotion."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2811.382,"endTime":2814.982,"body":"I mean, they go to a progressive school, which"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2811.382,"endTime":2814.982,"body":"is nice because they talk about emotions at"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2815.006,"endTime":2816.69,"body":"school and how to,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2817.15,"endTime":2821.414,"body":"you know, they have little jars where they go"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2817.15,"endTime":2821.414,"body":"in and put their stick of like, I'm feeling"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2821.462,"endTime":2822.278,"body":"bad today."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2822.414,"endTime":2824.294,"body":"And then you can change it halfway through the"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2824.302,"endTime":2824.518,"body":"day."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2824.574,"endTime":2827.024,"body":"Like, stuff that I'm like, oh my God, what"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2827.112,"endTime":2830.496,"body":"would have happened if I grew up in a school"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2827.112,"endTime":2830.496,"body":"that did this?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2830.568,"endTime":2831.728,"body":"You know, would it be."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2831.784,"endTime":2832.42,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2832.76,"endTime":2837.34,"body":"you know, hopefully, you know, just making"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2832.76,"endTime":2837.34,"body":"them more emotionally intelligent also."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2838.12,"endTime":2838.544,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2838.592,"endTime":2841.504,"body":"But yeah, there are"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2838.592,"endTime":2841.504,"body":"big readers now and, which is cool."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2841.552,"endTime":2847.2,"body":"And I've read like the Percy Jackson series"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2841.552,"endTime":2847.2,"body":"with my son and you know, that gets, that has"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2847.24,"endTime":2848.78,"body":"some dark stuff in it too."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2849.08,"endTime":2851.58,"body":"Yeah, I think he's totally fine with, like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2852.98,"endTime":2853.9,"body":"dark stuff."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2853.98,"endTime":2855.772,"body":"My daughter gets more scared, like scary"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2855.836,"endTime":2857.548,"body":"movies, that sort of thing."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2857.684,"endTime":2859.852,"body":"But then at the same time, it's funny because"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2859.876,"endTime":2860.796,"body":"they'll like, do."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2860.948,"endTime":2863.212,"body":"They did this comic at school about, because"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2863.236,"endTime":2865.24,"body":"they're learning about coyotes, I think."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2865.78,"endTime":2871.372,"body":"And my daughter drew this like three panel"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2865.78,"endTime":2871.372,"body":"comic that was like, about these two coyotes."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2871.516,"endTime":2875.532,"body":"And then the last panel is just like the"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2871.516,"endTime":2875.532,"body":"coyotes eating a rabbit and the rabbit's just"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2875.556,"endTime":2877.08,"body":"like bleeding out."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2878.13,"endTime":2880.106,"body":"It's got little crosses in the eyes."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2880.138,"endTime":2882.282,"body":"And it was just like, this is, and I think we"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2882.306,"endTime":2882.922,"body":"asked her about it."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2882.946,"endTime":2884.33,"body":"She's like, that's just nature."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2884.49,"endTime":2886.87,"body":"That's just like the circle of life, man."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2887.33,"endTime":2888.298,"body":"Yeah, it is."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2888.434,"endTime":2889.274,"body":"It is."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2889.442,"endTime":2890.266,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2890.458,"endTime":2893.75,"body":"I have a four year old and she"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2890.458,"endTime":2893.75,"body":"definitely seems to understand,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2894.29,"endTime":2898.074,"body":"like, way more than what I would expect of her"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2894.29,"endTime":2898.074,"body":"to understand."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2898.162,"endTime":2899.898,"body":"I, I. Kids are so resilient."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2899.994,"endTime":2900.266,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2900.298,"endTime":2903.68,"body":"I feel like they, they pick it up and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2900.298,"endTime":2903.68,"body":"they get it and they filed away."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2903.85,"endTime":2907.76,"body":"And then we're like, like the other day my"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2903.85,"endTime":2907.76,"body":"daughter was,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2909.02,"endTime":2912.068,"body":"we were so we, when she was born, we had two"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2909.02,"endTime":2912.068,"body":"dogs."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2912.164,"endTime":2914.18,"body":"One of that, one of those dog assistants"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2912.164,"endTime":2914.18,"body":"passed away."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2914.22,"endTime":2915.844,"body":"So now we have, we have one dog."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2915.972,"endTime":2918.196,"body":"And we were talking about our older dog."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2918.228,"endTime":2921.78,"body":"His name was Izzy. And then we have our"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2918.228,"endTime":2921.78,"body":"younger dog, Loki."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2921.86,"endTime":2923.716,"body":"Loki is now getting old."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2923.788,"endTime":2924.612,"body":"He's 10."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2924.716,"endTime":2926.084,"body":"He's an Alaskan malamute."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2926.132,"endTime":2929.78,"body":"And so his breed doesn't is a shorter life"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2929.82,"endTime":2930.516,"body":"expectancy."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2930.548,"endTime":2931.428,"body":"Right. Than normal."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2931.524,"endTime":2933.604,"body":"So I was talking to her about how, oh, we used"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2933.612,"endTime":2934.276,"body":"to have Izzy."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2934.308,"endTime":2935.656,"body":"And she was like, where is I?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2935.788,"endTime":2937.536,"body":"And I was like, well, Izzy passed away."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2937.608,"endTime":2940.784,"body":"And she was like, was he coming back?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2937.608,"endTime":2940.784,"body":"I was like, no, he."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2940.872,"endTime":2941.648,"body":"He passed away."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2941.704,"endTime":2942.064,"body":"He's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2942.112,"endTime":2942.624,"body":"He's gone."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2942.672,"endTime":2944.464,"body":"He was old, and."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2944.552,"endTime":2946.144,"body":"And she was like, well, Loki."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2946.192,"endTime":2947.392,"body":"You said Loki's old."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2947.496,"endTime":2949.168,"body":"I was like, loki's getting there."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2949.224,"endTime":2950.94,"body":"He's, you know, he's 10."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2951.24,"endTime":2953.66,"body":"And she was like, am I old?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2955.24,"endTime":2957.2,"body":"And I was like, no, no, you're not."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2957.24,"endTime":2958.54,"body":"She was like, I'm new."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2959.0,"endTime":2959.76,"body":"I'm new."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2959.88,"endTime":2960.8,"body":"That's what she said."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2960.84,"endTime":2961.792,"body":"She's like, I'm new."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2961.896,"endTime":2962.912,"body":"I'm four."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2963.096,"endTime":2964.304,"body":"I was like, yes, you're."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2964.352,"endTime":2964.976,"body":"You're new."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2965.048,"endTime":2967.38,"body":"You've got plenty fresh."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2969.88,"endTime":2970.72,"body":"Don't even worry about."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2970.76,"endTime":2973.008,"body":"And you can, like, see her start to put pieces"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2973.104,"endTime":2976.736,"body":"together of, like, look, Izzy died and is not"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2973.104,"endTime":2976.736,"body":"coming back."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2976.808,"endTime":2980.848,"body":"And, like, she's new, so she'll last a little"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2976.808,"endTime":2980.848,"body":"longer."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2980.944,"endTime":2982.864,"body":"And she just put on her shoes and went to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2980.944,"endTime":2982.864,"body":"school."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2982.952,"endTime":2984.8,"body":"And, like, how's it, like."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2984.84,"endTime":2987.072,"body":"I was like, okay, do we need to talk more"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2987.096,"endTime":2987.98,"body":"about this?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2988.76,"endTime":2990.274,"body":"Like, nope, I'm fine."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2990.322,"endTime":2992.15,"body":"I'm like, all right, cool."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2993.21,"endTime":2994.034,"body":"Yeah, they're"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2993.21,"endTime":2994.034,"body":"definitely."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2994.082,"endTime":2995.63,"body":"I mean, kids are aware of."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2996.41,"endTime":2997.058,"body":"And especially."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2997.114,"endTime":2997.73,"body":"Yeah. If you have."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2997.77,"endTime":2998.818,"body":"Like, we had pets, too."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":2998.874,"endTime":3000.13,"body":"And even though they were."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3000.17,"endTime":3002.194,"body":"Yeah, it's interesting because they were,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3000.17,"endTime":3002.194,"body":"like, pretty young."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3002.282,"endTime":3003.65,"body":"Like, we had a dog, too."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3003.77,"endTime":3004.802,"body":"He was super sweet."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3004.866,"endTime":3007.794,"body":"And they were babies when he."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3007.882,"endTime":3008.802,"body":"I mean, they were maybe."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3008.866,"endTime":3010.082,"body":"I'm trying to think how old they were."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3010.106,"endTime":3012.11,"body":"Maybe like two or three when he passed away."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3013.45,"endTime":3017.32,"body":"And they generally don't like dogs in general,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3013.45,"endTime":3017.32,"body":"but, like, they totally get."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3017.36,"endTime":3017.752,"body":"They."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3017.856,"endTime":3019.848,"body":"As babies, they had a great experience with"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3019.904,"endTime":3022.92,"body":"dog, but they still talk about him as if,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3019.904,"endTime":3022.92,"body":"like."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3022.96,"endTime":3027.128,"body":"I mean, obviously they've seen pictures of him"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3022.96,"endTime":3027.128,"body":"and them with him, you know, when they were"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3027.184,"endTime":3027.9,"body":"younger."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3028.24,"endTime":3029.4,"body":"But they'll."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3029.48,"endTime":3030.872,"body":"You know, to this day, they'll still talk"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3030.896,"endTime":3035.224,"body":"about Truman, who was their favorite dog or"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3030.896,"endTime":3035.224,"body":"something."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3035.312,"endTime":3035.94,"body":"Like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3036.88,"endTime":3038.536,"body":"so these. Yeah. They're just."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3038.608,"endTime":3039.048,"body":"I think."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3039.104,"endTime":3039.624,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3039.752,"endTime":3041.56,"body":"Kids are aware of this stuff for sure."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3041.6,"endTime":3045.36,"body":"And then it's just, like, helping them process"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3041.6,"endTime":3045.36,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3045.4,"endTime":3048.78,"body":"And again, not treat it like, oh, it's this,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3049.48,"endTime":3053.184,"body":"you know, shadowy subject we shouldn't talk"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3049.48,"endTime":3053.184,"body":"about."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3053.352,"endTime":3053.696,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3053.728,"endTime":3056.192,"body":"You two and your sweet story is about"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3053.728,"endTime":3056.192,"body":"your pets."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3056.256,"endTime":3057.78,"body":"Me, My daughter."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3060.52,"endTime":3061.58,"body":"You need to talk."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3062.76,"endTime":3066.24,"body":"So my daughter's 19 months, so different stage"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3062.76,"endTime":3066.24,"body":"of life."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3066.28,"endTime":3069.088,"body":"I mean, she's kind of in this place because"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3066.28,"endTime":3069.088,"body":"she goes to daycare in the day, so we don't"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3069.104,"endTime":3070.884,"body":"always know, like, what words she knows."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3070.992,"endTime":3071.66,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3071.82,"endTime":3073.852,"body":"So we just got chickens."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3073.996,"endTime":3077.308,"body":"We got four chicks, like, laying hens."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3077.484,"endTime":3078.252,"body":"And so they're."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3078.316,"endTime":3079.452,"body":"They're only, like, two weeks old."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3079.476,"endTime":3080.892,"body":"They're very little chicks."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3080.956,"endTime":3082.892,"body":"And when we went to pick them up."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3083.076,"endTime":3087.468,"body":"We, we went into like the room at the co op"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3083.076,"endTime":3087.468,"body":"where all the chicks were."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3087.524,"endTime":3088.668,"body":"We got to pick out four chicks."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3088.684,"endTime":3091.084,"body":"And we walked in and she goes, buck, buck."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3091.212,"endTime":3093.724,"body":"And I was like, I didn't know you knew what a"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3091.212,"endTime":3093.724,"body":"chicken said."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3093.812,"endTime":3094.44,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3094.74,"endTime":3096.316,"body":"So she just calls them bok box."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3096.348,"endTime":3097.16,"body":"They're her."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3097.68,"endTime":3099.672,"body":"We go visit her box."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3099.816,"endTime":3102.84,"body":"So the other night I texted the story, story"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3102.88,"endTime":3105.064,"body":"to Rachel because it just threw me so much."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3105.152,"endTime":3107.592,"body":"She was eating chicken."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3107.736,"endTime":3111.688,"body":"I had made her this like butter chicken and."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3111.824,"endTime":3113.064,"body":"And she was loving it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3113.152,"endTime":3114.104,"body":"So she's just eating."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3114.152,"endTime":3117.864,"body":"My husband and I are doing the dishes and I"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3114.152,"endTime":3117.864,"body":"just, I just, you know, offhandedly say to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3117.872,"endTime":3119.752,"body":"him, like, I'm so glad she likes the chicken."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3119.816,"endTime":3122.824,"body":"Like, thank goodness I found something else"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3119.816,"endTime":3122.824,"body":"she might eat at school."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3122.992,"endTime":3124.78,"body":"And she just looks at me and goes,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3126.76,"endTime":3132.656,"body":"she points, points to her plate and goes dead"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3126.76,"endTime":3132.656,"body":"in the eye."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3132.768,"endTime":3133.66,"body":"It's like,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3134.28,"endTime":3135.92,"body":"you barely speak English."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3136.0,"endTime":3138.368,"body":"I don't know, I don't know how to explain this"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3138.424,"endTime":3139.18,"body":"to you."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3139.88,"endTime":3141.58,"body":"Yeah, that's a tricky"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3139.88,"endTime":3141.58,"body":"one."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3142.76,"endTime":3143.984,"body":"Oh, it's funny."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3144.112,"endTime":3145.648,"body":"Light bulb moment."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3145.824,"endTime":3147.2,"body":"Yeah. So, yes, they do."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3147.24,"endTime":3149.76,"body":"They understand so much more than we give them"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3149.8,"endTime":3150.67,"body":"credit for."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3152.28,"endTime":3154.016,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3154.128,"endTime":3156.944,"body":"It's just like so important to te."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3157.032,"endTime":3161.824,"body":"To like, teach them about it, like to deal"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3157.032,"endTime":3161.824,"body":"with it, to manage it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3161.912,"endTime":3164.54,"body":"And I love that we have stories to do that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3165.08,"endTime":3166.54,"body":"It just thinks that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3166.84,"endTime":3169.872,"body":"I think it makes our jobs as parents easier."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3169.936,"endTime":3171.792,"body":"But also like, we learn."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3171.856,"endTime":3172.816,"body":"That's how we learn."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3172.928,"endTime":3174.384,"body":"We learn through storytelling."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3174.512,"endTime":3175.74,"body":"So, like, to have that."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3176.11,"endTime":3177.126,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3177.158,"endTime":3179.702,"body":"And I mean, it does seem like the first thing"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3179.726,"endTime":3180.63,"body":"you do as a parent."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3180.71,"endTime":3182.662,"body":"If there's an issue, you're like, is there a"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3182.686,"endTime":3186.342,"body":"kid's book about this?"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3182.686,"endTime":3186.342,"body":"I must go to the library and find one that"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3186.366,"endTime":3186.854,"body":"talks about it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3186.862,"endTime":3189.894,"body":"Yeah, like five kids books about potty"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3186.862,"endTime":3189.894,"body":"training."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3190.022,"endTime":3191.49,"body":"Yeah. Like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3192.43,"endTime":3192.886,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3192.918,"endTime":3194.774,"body":"Even from an early age, it's like learning"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3194.822,"endTime":3195.41,"body":"about."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3196.35,"endTime":3201.814,"body":"I mean, there's so many, like, picture books"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3196.35,"endTime":3201.814,"body":"about death and grief and stuff."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3201.862,"endTime":3202.454,"body":"Like, they don't."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3202.502,"endTime":3203.414,"body":"Yeah, they don't."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3203.582,"endTime":3205.334,"body":"It's not so, like they don't use the."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3205.422,"endTime":3206.33,"body":"On the nose."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3207.47,"endTime":3211.49,"body":"But yeah, we've read some that were like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3212.67,"endTime":3214.61,"body":"kind of got me teary, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3216.43,"endTime":3219.89,"body":"really, like a good children's book is just"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3216.43,"endTime":3219.89,"body":"like a work of art."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3220.43,"endTime":3221.318,"body":"They are."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3221.454,"endTime":3222.006,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3222.118,"endTime":3223.446,"body":"Thank goodness for books."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3223.558,"endTime":3224.022,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3224.086,"endTime":3224.81,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3225.31,"endTime":3228.838,"body":"Well, we know we're getting to the top of our"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3225.31,"endTime":3228.838,"body":"time that we have together, so we want to be"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3228.894,"endTime":3230.102,"body":"cognizant of your time as well."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3230.126,"endTime":3232.07,"body":"But do you have any, like, final wrap up"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3232.11,"endTime":3238.386,"body":"thoughts about both Here and Gone and Sirius"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3232.11,"endTime":3238.386,"body":"topics and anything that, you know, real life"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3238.538,"endTime":3241.41,"body":"Comparisons to wrap us up."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3241.45,"endTime":3241.858,"body":"And if."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3241.914,"endTime":3244.11,"body":"If not, then we can share how to find you."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3244.81,"endTime":3245.95,"body":"Yeah, I just."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3247.37,"endTime":3251.33,"body":"People like Avatar and Korra, I think they're"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3247.37,"endTime":3251.33,"body":"going to like this book."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3251.45,"endTime":3255.49,"body":"Like, it's not a fantasy book, so I'm not"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3251.45,"endTime":3255.49,"body":"trying to sell it as, like, it's the same"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3255.53,"endTime":3260.63,"body":"thing, but, yeah, emotionally, I think, like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3255.53,"endTime":3260.63,"body":"we've talked about there's similar themes."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3260.97,"endTime":3265.426,"body":"Um, you know, some people have pointed out,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3260.97,"endTime":3265.426,"body":"like, because I wrote the episode about Cora"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3265.458,"endTime":3266.722,"body":"going through ptsd."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3266.866,"endTime":3267.234,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3267.282,"endTime":3272.242,"body":"And I often get, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3267.282,"endTime":3272.242,"body":"know, fans saying how much that meant to them"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3272.266,"endTime":3277.106,"body":"and help them through, like, their own, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3272.266,"endTime":3277.106,"body":"know, traumatic times and stuff."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3277.138,"endTime":3277.87,"body":"Which is,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3278.65,"endTime":3282.322,"body":"as a writer, like, probably one of the best"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3278.65,"endTime":3282.322,"body":"compliments you can get because you're like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3282.346,"endTime":3285.058,"body":"oh, this thing I wrote actually helped"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3282.346,"endTime":3285.058,"body":"somebody."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3285.154,"endTime":3286.55,"body":"That's amazing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3287.21,"endTime":3287.99,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3288.4,"endTime":3292.568,"body":"So the people who"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3288.4,"endTime":3292.568,"body":"kind of responded to those episodes have"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3292.624,"endTime":3302.952,"body":"written and said this has a similar vibe and"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3292.624,"endTime":3302.952,"body":"that Rennie is like the Uncle Iroh of this"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3302.976,"endTime":3309.736,"body":"story, which I honestly didn't think of when I"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3302.976,"endTime":3309.736,"body":"was writing it, but it kind of makes sense."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3309.768,"endTime":3316.12,"body":"He's very philosophical and stuff and is there"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3309.768,"endTime":3316.12,"body":"for the young person, even though the young"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3316.16,"endTime":3318.34,"body":"person might not want to listen to what they"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3316.16,"endTime":3318.34,"body":"have to say."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3319.0,"endTime":3319.78,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3320.28,"endTime":3321.312,"body":"Yeah, I love that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3321.336,"endTime":3324.74,"body":"And I can speak as a promoter of Korra."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3325.08,"endTime":3325.696,"body":"I agree."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3325.768,"endTime":3328.032,"body":"And I think that scene in particular, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3328.136,"endTime":3330.624,"body":"just a personal note, it is really meaningful."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3330.672,"endTime":3333.04,"body":"And like, my husband has diagnosed ptsd, and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3333.08,"endTime":3335.66,"body":"so to watch that and to watch that together,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3336.12,"endTime":3340.26,"body":"because I introduced him to Avatar, like, as"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3336.12,"endTime":3340.26,"body":"adults,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3341.72,"endTime":3343.46,"body":"I watch Avatar."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3344.37,"endTime":3348.506,"body":"My ex boyfriend introduced it to me, and then"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3344.37,"endTime":3348.506,"body":"we watched Korra live."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3348.578,"endTime":3352.49,"body":"That was around the same time when Korra was"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3348.578,"endTime":3352.49,"body":"coming out, and that was just incredible."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3352.57,"endTime":3356.058,"body":"And then broke up in the middle of Korra, and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3352.57,"endTime":3356.058,"body":"I was like, I'm."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3356.074,"endTime":3357.546,"body":"Not gonna own this."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3357.618,"endTime":3359.274,"body":"I'm gonna keep watching it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3359.442,"endTime":3360.394,"body":"It's mine."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3360.522,"endTime":3366.426,"body":"And then I met my husband a year or two after"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3360.522,"endTime":3366.426,"body":"and then introduced to him and we watched"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3366.458,"endTime":3367.146,"body":"everything together."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3367.218,"endTime":3369.594,"body":"And yeah, they are really meaningful."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3369.642,"endTime":3372.32,"body":"And anyway, thank you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3372.44,"endTime":3374.288,"body":"Thank you for writing stories like this."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3374.344,"endTime":3375.42,"body":"They're so important,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3375.96,"endTime":3380.4,"body":"not just to younger audiences, to young Brian,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3375.96,"endTime":3380.4,"body":"but to all."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3380.44,"endTime":3386.64,"body":"Audiences, all of us who are realizing"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3380.44,"endTime":3386.64,"body":"we have a true shoot."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3386.72,"endTime":3388.496,"body":"Yeah. Well, thank you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3388.568,"endTime":3390.16,"body":"Thank you so much for your time."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3390.28,"endTime":3396.08,"body":"We're gonna put links in the show notes to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3390.28,"endTime":3396.08,"body":"your website and to the sales page for both"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3396.12,"endTime":3396.944,"body":"here and gone."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3397.072,"endTime":3398.396,"body":"I'm really enjoying it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3398.488,"endTime":3400.564,"body":"Um, and this has been a wonderful"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3400.692,"endTime":3401.7,"body":"conversation."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3401.86,"endTime":3403.316,"body":"Um, yeah, great"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3401.86,"endTime":3403.316,"body":"question."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3403.388,"endTime":3404.292,"body":"Thanks for coming on."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3404.396,"endTime":3405.7,"body":"So great to talk to"},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3404.396,"endTime":3405.7,"body":"you both."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3405.82,"endTime":3406.452,"body":"Thanks."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3406.596,"endTime":3407.06,"body":"Thanks."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3407.14,"endTime":3407.8,"body":"Bye."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3408.22,"endTime":3412.852,"body":"Bye. If you want to build a successful,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3408.22,"endTime":3412.852,"body":"fulfilling and sustainable writing life that"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3412.876,"endTime":3415.076,"body":"works for you, you've got to get on our email"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3412.876,"endTime":3415.076,"body":"list."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3415.228,"endTime":3417.348,"body":"Sign up now to get our free email"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3415.228,"endTime":3417.348,"body":"course."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3417.404,"endTime":3418.724,"body":"The Magic of Character Arcs."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3418.772,"endTime":3420.772,"body":"After seven days of email magic, you'll have"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3420.796,"endTime":3423.62,"body":"the power to keep your readers slipping pages"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3420.796,"endTime":3423.62,"body":"all through the night."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3423.74,"endTime":3424.724,"body":"Link in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":3424.772,"endTime":3425.76,"body":"We'll see you there."},{"speaker":"Michael Dante DiMartino","startTime":3426.13,"endTime":3426.37,"body":"It."}]}