{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":13.92,"endTime":14.56,"body":"Hey, writers."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":14.56,"endTime":16.4,"body":"Welcome back to Story Magic, the podcast that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":16.4,"endTime":18.24,"body":"will help you write a book you're damn proud"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":16.4,"endTime":18.24,"body":"of."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":18.24,"endTime":19.04,"body":"I'm Emily."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":19.12,"endTime":20.16,"body":"And I'm Rachel."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":20.4,"endTime":24.96,"body":"And today we are talking about book"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":20.4,"endTime":24.96,"body":"marketing with Jen Vance."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":26.24,"endTime":26.88,"body":"Welcome, Jen."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":26.88,"endTime":28.16,"body":"We're so excited to have you."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":28.8,"endTime":29.92,"body":"Thank you all for having me."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":30.24,"endTime":30.88,"body":"Of course."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":30.88,"endTime":35.36,"body":"Yeah. So we discovered Jen because I think you"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":35.36,"endTime":37.44,"body":"reached out to us about Yvette Davis."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":38.24,"endTime":39.92,"body":"You are her publicist."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":40.0,"endTime":41.32,"body":"Is that what you would call yourself?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":41.32,"endTime":41.76,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":41.76,"endTime":42.24,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":42.56,"endTime":45.16,"body":"And so if you listen to our episode"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":42.56,"endTime":45.16,"body":"with Yvette, it was a really great"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":45.16,"endTime":45.84,"body":"conversation."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":46.08,"endTime":48.12,"body":"But as we were talking to Yvette, we realized"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":48.12,"endTime":55.6,"body":"we really need to learn more about the types"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":48.12,"endTime":55.6,"body":"of work that Jen does, the things that, like,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":56.2,"endTime":56.6,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":57.32,"endTime":62.16,"body":"the opportunities that are out there for"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":57.32,"endTime":62.16,"body":"writers to get support in the marketing side"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":62.16,"endTime":62.84,"body":"of the business."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":63.0,"endTime":65.2,"body":"And so we're really, really excited to have"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":65.2,"endTime":65.68,"body":"you here."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":65.68,"endTime":67.64,"body":"Before we jump into stuff, can you just give"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":67.64,"endTime":71.64,"body":"us a little overview about who you are, what"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":67.64,"endTime":71.64,"body":"you do, what Books Forward is?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":72.36,"endTime":73.24,"body":"Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":73.72,"endTime":76.6,"body":"So I am the marketing director for Books"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":76.6,"endTime":81.0,"body":"Forward, and It's actually our 25th"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":76.6,"endTime":81.0,"body":"anniversary this year."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":82.36,"endTime":82.68,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":83.48,"endTime":85.32,"body":"Been around for 25 years."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":85.72,"endTime":86.52,"body":"Obviously,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":86.84,"endTime":89.88,"body":"the industry has changed a lot in those 25"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":86.84,"endTime":89.88,"body":"years."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":89.88,"endTime":95.16,"body":"So, you know, what we do today is very"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":89.88,"endTime":95.16,"body":"different than what we did in the year 2000."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":97.4,"endTime":98.68,"body":"I mean, I wasn't even there."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":98.68,"endTime":99.12,"body":"Obviously."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":99.12,"endTime":100.2,"body":"I was in elementary school."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":100.28,"endTime":100.68,"body":"But,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":103.48,"endTime":105.56,"body":"yeah, so we've been around for 25 years."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":106.44,"endTime":108.52,"body":"Book marketing, book publicity."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":109.57,"endTime":115.33,"body":"And, yeah, as the industry has evolved, so has"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":109.57,"endTime":115.33,"body":"what we've offered to authors."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":115.41,"endTime":117.09,"body":"So as the marketing director,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":118.13,"endTime":122.97,"body":"I manage our digital marketing team that"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":118.13,"endTime":122.97,"body":"includes our social media manager."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":122.97,"endTime":128.85,"body":"It includes our team of digital strategists"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":122.97,"endTime":128.85,"body":"who help authors run digital advertising and"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":129.41,"endTime":131.65,"body":"their social media accounts and things like"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":129.41,"endTime":131.65,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":132.37,"endTime":138.42,"body":"But we also run publicity campaigns as well,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":132.37,"endTime":138.42,"body":"so we kind of do a little bit of everything."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":139.38,"endTime":143.86,"body":"There are some companies that, you know, they"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":139.38,"endTime":143.86,"body":"might specialize more in just the social media"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":143.86,"endTime":148.34,"body":"realm or maybe specialize more in just"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":143.86,"endTime":148.34,"body":"publicity specifically,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":148.82,"endTime":153.46,"body":"but we really try to, you know, do a little"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":148.82,"endTime":153.46,"body":"bit of everything for authors."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":154.02,"endTime":154.82,"body":"Yeah, that's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":155.14,"endTime":158.26,"body":"I have so many questions, and these are gonna"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":158.26,"endTime":160.02,"body":"bounce probably all over the place."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":160.5,"endTime":161.18,"body":"That's perfect."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":161.18,"endTime":161.86,"body":"That's fine."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":163.08,"endTime":165.88,"body":"Because I. So I. I'm indie publish."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":165.88,"endTime":168.36,"body":"Emily is trad published, and we're both in,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":168.36,"endTime":171.28,"body":"like, this sphere of, okay, marketing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":171.28,"endTime":172.04,"body":"We've got to keep."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":172.92,"endTime":173.72,"body":"Got to keep going."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":173.8,"endTime":176.48,"body":"You know, the books are out, so now we have to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":176.48,"endTime":176.92,"body":"sell them."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":176.92,"endTime":177.4,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":178.36,"endTime":180.92,"body":"And I think, like, we have."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":181.0,"endTime":183.12,"body":"It's been a continual learning journey, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":183.12,"endTime":183.68,"body":"know, and we've."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":183.68,"endTime":185.56,"body":"We've talked about it on the podcast, but I do"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":185.56,"endTime":187.64,"body":"feel like every couple months I have a new,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":188.54,"endTime":193.3,"body":"a new thing I'm gonna try or like a mindset"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":188.54,"endTime":193.3,"body":"that I'm, that I'm working through or"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":193.3,"endTime":193.62,"body":"whatever."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":193.62,"endTime":196.5,"body":"So right now, currently I'm like all about"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":196.5,"endTime":197.1,"body":"TikTok."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":197.1,"endTime":198.06,"body":"Yay. Yes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":198.54,"endTime":203.02,"body":"But I think like there's just so many"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":198.54,"endTime":203.02,"body":"different pieces of publicity as you've just"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":203.02,"endTime":203.98,"body":"kind of hinted to."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":204.7,"endTime":210.02,"body":"And I also think that depending on someone's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":204.7,"endTime":210.02,"body":"goals or their journey or what other support"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":210.02,"endTime":210.62,"body":"they have,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":211.26,"endTime":212.38,"body":"it might look different."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":214.69,"endTime":216.53,"body":"So that's like, yeah, tell me all about that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":216.53,"endTime":218.49,"body":"No, but the first, like, I guess the first"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":218.49,"endTime":224.57,"body":"thing that I was thinking as you were talking"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":218.49,"endTime":224.57,"body":"is do you work with both indie published"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":224.57,"endTime":227.01,"body":"hybrid or all indie published hybrid and trad."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":227.25,"endTime":234.09,"body":"Are you primarily servicing a certain type of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":227.25,"endTime":234.09,"body":"author or why would someone elect to like use"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":234.09,"endTime":240.09,"body":"a service like this versus bootstrapping it"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":234.09,"endTime":240.09,"body":"and being like, okay, I'm gonna go post on"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":240.09,"endTime":240.65,"body":"TikTok."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":240.65,"endTime":241.32,"body":"Like, like me."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":241.32,"endTime":241.72,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":242.92,"endTime":247.48,"body":"Yeah. So we, we do work with authors of every"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":242.92,"endTime":247.48,"body":"publishing path."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":247.48,"endTime":250.28,"body":"You know, traditional indie hybrid, self"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":247.48,"endTime":250.28,"body":"published."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":251.0,"endTime":252.92,"body":"Again, every company is different."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":252.92,"endTime":254.88,"body":"You know, some of them may only work with"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":254.88,"endTime":256.28,"body":"indie published authors,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":256.84,"endTime":258.76,"body":"but we have found, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":259.08,"endTime":263.52,"body":"and you're traditionally published, so you"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":259.08,"endTime":263.52,"body":"might find this as well, that traditional"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":263.52,"endTime":267.52,"body":"publishers, they don't have all the resources"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":263.52,"endTime":267.52,"body":"that they used to have 20 years ago."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":268.08,"endTime":270.0,"body":"Their teams are smaller,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":270.64,"endTime":275.28,"body":"they have more authors and they're kind of"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":270.64,"endTime":275.28,"body":"spreading their time and their resources"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":275.92,"endTime":277.0,"body":"thinner and thinner."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":277.0,"endTime":281.36,"body":"And so in order to make a splash, even"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":281.36,"endTime":285.84,"body":"traditionally published authors are doing a"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":281.36,"endTime":285.84,"body":"lot of that work on their own."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":286.64,"endTime":291.52,"body":"And so authors who don't have the time or the"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":286.64,"endTime":291.52,"body":"resources or the skills to do that,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":292.0,"endTime":294.25,"body":"definitely they're coming to us as well for"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":292.0,"endTime":294.25,"body":"that kind of stuff."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":295.21,"endTime":299.05,"body":"I do always say like, nothing I do is, is"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":295.21,"endTime":299.05,"body":"rocket science."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":299.13,"endTime":300.97,"body":"And like that's a good thing."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":300.97,"endTime":301.69,"body":"Like I'm not,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":302.33,"endTime":303.53,"body":"I'm not a scientist."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":303.61,"endTime":305.69,"body":"Like, I'm not, you don't want me like doing"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":305.69,"endTime":306.73,"body":"anything like that."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":307.85,"endTime":313.17,"body":"Everything we do, like, you know, authors can"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":307.85,"endTime":313.17,"body":"do and there are some, you know, self"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":313.17,"endTime":317.09,"body":"published authors out there who are really"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":313.17,"endTime":317.09,"body":"managing it all on their own."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":317.09,"endTime":321.42,"body":"You know, they know how to run their ads and"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":317.09,"endTime":321.42,"body":"they can do all their social media and stuff"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":321.42,"endTime":321.86,"body":"like that."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":322.5,"endTime":328.18,"body":"But it really is like the time of so many"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":322.5,"endTime":328.18,"body":"people don't have the time for that."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":328.18,"endTime":332.9,"body":"You know, they have full time job or jobs, you"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":328.18,"endTime":332.9,"body":"know, they have kids, they have lives."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":333.06,"endTime":334.74,"body":"And so in order to,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":335.3,"endTime":335.94,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":337.94,"endTime":343.78,"body":"publish and market a book successfully, it"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":337.94,"endTime":343.78,"body":"really is like a full time job in itself."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":343.78,"endTime":350.55,"body":"So, so that's why someone would come to a book"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":343.78,"endTime":350.55,"body":"marketing Firm, you know, is for that help."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":350.63,"endTime":352.63,"body":"Because again, you know, you can do this."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":354.23,"endTime":355.67,"body":"I think everyone can do it."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":355.67,"endTime":358.19,"body":"It's, you know, and it's, it's fun to learn"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":358.19,"endTime":359.19,"body":"these kinds of things,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":359.67,"endTime":361.63,"body":"but some people just don't want to."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":361.63,"endTime":363.95,"body":"They just want to say, hey, like I, these are"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":363.95,"endTime":367.03,"body":"my goals and I want you to help get me there."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":367.11,"endTime":368.39,"body":"And that's where we come in."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":369.11,"endTime":369.67,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":370.05,"endTime":374.29,"body":"So they come to you with like, I mean, what's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":370.05,"endTime":374.29,"body":"an example of a pretty reasonable goal that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":374.29,"endTime":377.73,"body":"someone would come to you with?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":374.29,"endTime":377.73,"body":"Like a number sales or like a reach amount?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":379.09,"endTime":382.25,"body":"A lot of authors, I mean, every"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":379.09,"endTime":382.25,"body":"single author wants to sell books."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":382.25,"endTime":386.169,"body":"So like, you know, every single author is"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":382.25,"endTime":386.169,"body":"going to come in saying, I want to sell books."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":386.169,"endTime":392.21,"body":"So that's going to be top of mind authors who"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":386.169,"endTime":392.21,"body":"have goals of,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":392.93,"endTime":395.09,"body":"you know, reaching specific markets."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":395.09,"endTime":397.29,"body":"They know their target audience and their"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":397.29,"endTime":398.21,"body":"market really well."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":398.29,"endTime":401.95,"body":"That's really great to work with authors who"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":402.03,"endTime":407.95,"body":"maybe want to get into libraries specifically"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":402.03,"endTime":407.95,"body":"or maybe want to work with their local"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":408.03,"endTime":409.27,"body":"communities specifically."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":409.27,"endTime":412.71,"body":"Like those really targeted, achievable kind of"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":409.27,"endTime":412.71,"body":"goals."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":412.71,"endTime":419.03,"body":"Like, those are great goals to have because"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":412.71,"endTime":419.03,"body":"the broader your goals are, the harder it's"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":419.03,"endTime":420.83,"body":"going to be to kind of achieve those."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":421.23,"endTime":424.51,"body":"And realistically speaking, the more money"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":421.23,"endTime":424.51,"body":"you're going to have to put into that."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":424.67,"endTime":430.68,"body":"So it's great to have like these big pie in"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":424.67,"endTime":430.68,"body":"the sky goals, but it's also really important"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":430.76,"endTime":435.32,"body":"to have goals that you can achieve because if"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":430.76,"endTime":435.32,"body":"you suddenly,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":435.64,"endTime":438.8,"body":"you know, you're two, three years into"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":435.64,"endTime":438.8,"body":"marketing a book and you feel like you haven't"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":438.8,"endTime":441.12,"body":"achieved anything, that feels really bad."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":441.12,"endTime":443.2,"body":"You know, you want to be able to set yourself"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":443.2,"endTime":446.12,"body":"up for success and that's what you want for"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":443.2,"endTime":446.12,"body":"authors too."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":446.84,"endTime":447.72,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":448.12,"endTime":451.52,"body":"So what does that look like when folks reach"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":448.12,"endTime":451.52,"body":"out to you?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":451.52,"endTime":454.44,"body":"Like, can you walk us through?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":451.52,"endTime":454.44,"body":"I'm like, I'm like, I want to get rid of all"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":454.44,"endTime":456.72,"body":"the vague, vague assumptions about how this"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":454.44,"endTime":456.72,"body":"works."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":456.72,"endTime":457.8,"body":"Like what happens when someone,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":458.26,"endTime":458.38,"body":"you."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":458.38,"endTime":459.82,"body":"How do you decide who to work with?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":459.82,"endTime":461.22,"body":"Like, what does that process look like?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":461.86,"endTime":466.94,"body":"It's honestly, it's a little bit"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":461.86,"endTime":466.94,"body":"similar to like how an author would query an"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":466.94,"endTime":468.66,"body":"agent or query an editor."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":469.46,"endTime":475.14,"body":"You know, we have like a contact form on our"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":469.46,"endTime":475.14,"body":"website where we ask for some author info,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":475.46,"endTime":477.22,"body":"ask for, you know, your background."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":477.3,"endTime":480.26,"body":"We ask for first few chapters of a book."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":481.14,"endTime":485.91,"body":"We do want to know, like, if a book has been"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":481.14,"endTime":485.91,"body":"professionally edited and if the COVID it has"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":485.91,"endTime":487.79,"body":"been professionally designed or things like"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":485.91,"endTime":487.79,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":487.95,"endTime":490.67,"body":"This is not to say that we can't work with,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":487.95,"endTime":490.67,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":491.23,"endTime":494.35,"body":"books that haven't been edited, but it just"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":491.23,"endTime":494.35,"body":"puts Us in a different space."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":495.87,"endTime":501.629,"body":"So we kind of collect all that info to see,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":495.87,"endTime":501.629,"body":"you know, what would the plan be for this"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":501.629,"endTime":502.75,"body":"author specifically."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":504.19,"endTime":508.23,"body":"And that of course, like genre is a big one"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":504.19,"endTime":508.23,"body":"and timing is a big one too."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":508.23,"endTime":512.42,"body":"A lot of authors, the biggest mistake they"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":508.23,"endTime":512.42,"body":"make is waiting until the week before their"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":512.42,"endTime":516.86,"body":"book launches to try and do like any kind of"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":512.42,"endTime":516.86,"body":"marketing or anything like that."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":518.46,"endTime":524.7,"body":"You know, we typically run like publicity"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":518.46,"endTime":524.7,"body":"campaigns five to six months prior to launch."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":526.46,"endTime":531.9,"body":"And that means that people have to reach out"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":526.46,"endTime":531.9,"body":"even before that so that we can make sure we"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":531.9,"endTime":533.18,"body":"have time in our schedule."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":535.02,"endTime":538.5,"body":"So and again, it depends on the time of year"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":535.02,"endTime":538.5,"body":"and like that kind of stuff."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":538.5,"endTime":541.58,"body":"But you really have to kind of think ahead."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":542.77,"endTime":547.09,"body":"You know, if my book's going to launch in July"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":542.77,"endTime":547.09,"body":"of 2026,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":547.41,"endTime":553.33,"body":"I might want to start looking in fall of 2025"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":547.41,"endTime":553.33,"body":"for a company that can work with me."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":554.05,"endTime":557.49,"body":"Which again is not to say that other companies"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":554.05,"endTime":557.49,"body":"won't be able to do something,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":558.05,"endTime":561.89,"body":"but you want to make sure that they're"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":558.05,"endTime":561.89,"body":"devoting the time and the resources to,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":562.29,"endTime":562.93,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":563.41,"endTime":566.53,"body":"be able to really help you successfully market"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":563.41,"endTime":566.53,"body":"something."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":567.73,"endTime":569.73,"body":"We do do post launch stuff,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":570.9,"endTime":574.1,"body":"it's usually more kind of geared toward like"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":570.9,"endTime":574.1,"body":"digital marketing."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":574.66,"endTime":576.66,"body":"So that's advertising and things like that."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":577.22,"endTime":581.06,"body":"Maybe more like social media, like more"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":577.22,"endTime":581.06,"body":"influencers and that kind of stuff."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":582.26,"endTime":583.98,"body":"So we can do some of that stuff as well."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":583.98,"endTime":585.859,"body":"So we just kind of have to take a look at the"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":585.859,"endTime":588.82,"body":"timing of things and see where that plays out."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":589.86,"endTime":593.98,"body":"Yeah, we can't say yes to everyone that comes"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":589.86,"endTime":593.98,"body":"through just because we only have so many"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":593.98,"endTime":594.34,"body":"people."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":595.46,"endTime":595.94,"body":"You know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":596.71,"endTime":602.23,"body":"we're a company of like 15 people and say most"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":596.71,"endTime":602.23,"body":"of these companies are, you know, small"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":602.31,"endTime":602.71,"body":"companies."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":604.15,"endTime":605.87,"body":"So we do have to say no a lot."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":605.87,"endTime":608.63,"body":"Just because of timing is a lot."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":609.99,"endTime":611.63,"body":"Budget restrictions are a lot."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":611.63,"endTime":616.99,"body":"A lot of people don't fully understand the"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":616.99,"endTime":617.83,"body":"cost of things,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":620.15,"endTime":624.79,"body":"you know, because it does cost money, you"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":620.15,"endTime":624.79,"body":"know, to hire someone else to do something."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":625.67,"endTime":630.17,"body":"If you're doing everything on your own, then"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":625.67,"endTime":630.17,"body":"obviously you're only paying to, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":630.17,"endTime":635.09,"body":"sponsored post for an influencer or to book"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":630.17,"endTime":635.09,"body":"some Amazon ads or things like that."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":636.37,"endTime":638.09,"body":"But those costs can build up too."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":638.09,"endTime":640.45,"body":"So we want to make sure that authors are"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":640.45,"endTime":645.89,"body":"comfortable with anything that they're"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":640.45,"endTime":645.89,"body":"spending because it's an investment and, you"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":645.89,"endTime":646.21,"body":"know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":647.17,"endTime":651.81,"body":"that's an important piece, like when an author"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":647.17,"endTime":651.81,"body":"is going to sign on."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":652.13,"endTime":654.21,"body":"So sometimes it's just not always a good fit."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":655.9,"endTime":659.9,"body":"Sometimes we recommend authors to companies"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":655.9,"endTime":659.9,"body":"that we have good relationships with because"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":659.9,"endTime":665.06,"body":"they might have some time in their schedule or"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":659.9,"endTime":665.06,"body":"they might really focus on a genre that you"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":665.06,"endTime":666.7,"body":"Know, we think they'll succeed with,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":668.46,"endTime":671.26,"body":"or we'll, we try to work with every author we"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":668.46,"endTime":671.26,"body":"can,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":672.22,"endTime":672.94,"body":"but it really."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":673.02,"endTime":674.02,"body":"Yeah, it just depends."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":674.02,"endTime":675.9,"body":"Timing and budget are the big ones though."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":676.38,"endTime":676.86,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":677.18,"endTime":679.9,"body":"So this, I have a lot of questions about"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":677.18,"endTime":679.9,"body":"strategy,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":680.22,"endTime":685.18,"body":"but I am really interested in your take on"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":680.22,"endTime":685.18,"body":"this because I think,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":686.06,"endTime":690.1,"body":"you know, being an indie published, I'm"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":686.06,"endTime":690.1,"body":"primarily focused on ebook and Kindle"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":690.1,"endTime":692.86,"body":"Unlimited and I think that vastly affects like"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":690.1,"endTime":692.86,"body":"my strategy."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":693.02,"endTime":694.46,"body":"So that, that being said,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":696.38,"endTime":699.9,"body":"we're, we're doing like some marketing work"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":696.38,"endTime":699.9,"body":"with our writing program."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":700.06,"endTime":703.38,"body":"We have a writing program called Tenacious"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":700.06,"endTime":703.38,"body":"Writing and we have a bunch of writers in it"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":703.38,"endTime":707.34,"body":"and we're all learning craft and you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":703.38,"endTime":707.34,"body":"being a community and working on mindset and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":707.34,"endTime":707.9,"body":"those things together."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":708.3,"endTime":713.71,"body":"And we're, we're doing like a marketing meet"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":708.3,"endTime":713.71,"body":"up all the time to talk about like strategy"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":713.71,"endTime":715.63,"body":"and what are we all doing and how is it"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":713.71,"endTime":715.63,"body":"working."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":716.19,"endTime":723.87,"body":"And I see so many people put like this major"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":716.19,"endTime":723.87,"body":"pressure and influence on like pre release,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":724.35,"endTime":725.31,"body":"pre orders,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":725.71,"endTime":730.35,"body":"all of that and like building up this, this"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":725.71,"endTime":730.35,"body":"massive on my side."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":730.35,"endTime":734.83,"body":"It's very stressful, like watching all of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":730.35,"endTime":734.83,"body":"these people be very stressed out about like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":734.91,"endTime":736.62,"body":"oh no, I have to have release stuff."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":736.77,"endTime":739.09,"body":"Stuff perfect or else the book will fail."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":739.17,"endTime":740.05,"body":"Oh my God."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":740.29,"endTime":745.73,"body":"And then like now that I have a couple books"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":740.29,"endTime":745.73,"body":"out and I'm working on my, on my third,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":746.69,"endTime":747.33,"body":"I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":748.29,"endTime":749.25,"body":"that's one day."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":749.73,"endTime":751.73,"body":"And like the real stuff comes after."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":752.13,"endTime":754.61,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":752.13,"endTime":754.61,"body":"Like we, we joke about it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":754.61,"endTime":755.61,"body":"I like to think about it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":755.61,"endTime":756.57,"body":"It's like a wedding."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":756.57,"endTime":759.41,"body":"Like you're planning for a wedding but then"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":756.57,"endTime":759.41,"body":"you have to be married."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":759.41,"endTime":762.93,"body":"And like I say, I say it like a"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":759.41,"endTime":762.93,"body":"baby."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":762.93,"endTime":763.41,"body":"I always,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":763.8,"endTime":766.12,"body":"yeah, I say it as like a baby analogy."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":766.12,"endTime":769.68,"body":"Like you like conceive of this idea and then"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":769.68,"endTime":773.88,"body":"you birth it and then you have to raise it for"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":769.68,"endTime":773.88,"body":"who knows how long."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":774.04,"endTime":775.32,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":775.88,"endTime":779.6,"body":"So I think like it's really"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":775.88,"endTime":779.6,"body":"interesting and I, I think it makes a lot of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":779.6,"endTime":779.959,"body":"sense."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":779.959,"endTime":782.52,"body":"Like it's interesting to hear like this"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":782.52,"endTime":785.56,"body":"strategy of pre release buildup."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":785.96,"endTime":790.44,"body":"And then for me I'm in the post phase where"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":785.96,"endTime":790.44,"body":"I'm like, that's not, that's like the shortest"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":790.44,"endTime":791.48,"body":"part of this whole process."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":791.85,"endTime":793.21,"body":"Like then you have everything after."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":793.77,"endTime":799.93,"body":"So have you noticed like that kind of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":793.77,"endTime":799.93,"body":"experience differing for the different authors"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":799.93,"endTime":804.37,"body":"you work with or the different publishing"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":799.93,"endTime":804.37,"body":"paths for the different authors that you work"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":804.37,"endTime":806.81,"body":"with or like the different medium?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":806.97,"endTime":811.61,"body":"Because, because I can tell you that like the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":806.97,"endTime":811.61,"body":"people that my ideal reader, the people that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":811.61,"endTime":814.25,"body":"are wanting to pick it up on KU are like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":814.57,"endTime":816.57,"body":"so they want instant gratification."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":816.73,"endTime":819.37,"body":"So to ask Them to pre order is a much harder"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":819.37,"endTime":819.69,"body":"ask,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":820.15,"endTime":820.35,"body":"right."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":820.35,"endTime":822.39,"body":"Than to be like, it's gonna be on ku, go read"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":822.39,"endTime":822.87,"body":"it right now."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":823.51,"endTime":827.39,"body":"So I feel like my approach to those two"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":823.51,"endTime":827.39,"body":"phases, this is what I'm getting at, has been"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":827.39,"endTime":827.67,"body":"different."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":827.91,"endTime":828.47,"body":"What are,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":828.87,"endTime":832.03,"body":"do you feel the same?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":828.87,"endTime":832.03,"body":"Do you approach strategy different pre release"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":832.03,"endTime":833.99,"body":"and post release?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":832.03,"endTime":833.99,"body":"Do you get into like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":834.39,"endTime":837.79,"body":"you know, a bunch of lead up with a goal of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":834.39,"endTime":837.79,"body":"pre orders and then you're in like a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":837.79,"endTime":840.79,"body":"maintenance phase afterward to just keep,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":841.11,"endTime":843.71,"body":"you know, the numbers building in anyway?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":843.71,"endTime":846.07,"body":"Yeah. So yeah, that strategy"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":843.71,"endTime":846.07,"body":"definitely,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":846.77,"endTime":848.29,"body":"I think for the most part,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":848.69,"endTime":854.29,"body":"like traditionally published authors are going"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":848.69,"endTime":854.29,"body":"to prioritize pre orders and it's because"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":854.29,"endTime":856.93,"body":"their publishers are prioritizing that,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":857.41,"endTime":860.97,"body":"which is understandable if you want to, if you"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":857.41,"endTime":860.97,"body":"want to stay with your publisher and you want"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":860.97,"endTime":861.57,"body":"to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":861.89,"endTime":862.85,"body":"have another contract,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":863.25,"endTime":867.25,"body":"you know, you have to show them that you can"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":863.25,"endTime":867.25,"body":"sell books, which is, I completely understand."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":868.77,"endTime":871.81,"body":"And because, you know, they have the"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":868.77,"endTime":871.81,"body":"distribution behind it."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":872.93,"endTime":873.81,"body":"So really,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":874.55,"endTime":878.15,"body":"traditionally published, I get it if you're"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":874.55,"endTime":878.15,"body":"going to push pre orders,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":878.55,"endTime":884.59,"body":"but for a debut author who's never written"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":878.55,"endTime":884.59,"body":"anything and they're self published and no one"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":884.59,"endTime":885.43,"body":"knows about them,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":885.75,"endTime":892.11,"body":"it's a, it's a big ask for someone to preorder"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":885.75,"endTime":892.11,"body":"a book a month in advance for someone they've"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":892.11,"endTime":892.95,"body":"never heard of."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":893.11,"endTime":896.11,"body":"I'm not even great about pre ordering books of"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":896.11,"endTime":897.31,"body":"my favorite authors."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":897.31,"endTime":897.67,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":898.23,"endTime":904.11,"body":"Like, and these are authors I am like fanatic"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":898.23,"endTime":904.11,"body":"over and I'm like an average buyer."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":904.67,"endTime":909.31,"body":"So to ask an average buyer to pre order a"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":904.67,"endTime":909.31,"body":"book,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":909.71,"endTime":913.63,"body":"you know, of a self published author again,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":909.71,"endTime":913.63,"body":"that they've never heard of, it's a big ask."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":914.83,"endTime":919.389,"body":"So yeah, we do especially in like the digital"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":914.83,"endTime":919.389,"body":"marketing and like the advertising and things"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":919.389,"endTime":919.95,"body":"like that."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":920.27,"endTime":922.19,"body":"It, it definitely differs."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":922.67,"endTime":929.51,"body":"We always do encourage at least in publicity"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":922.67,"endTime":929.51,"body":"and specifically like in terms of media and at"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":929.51,"endTime":930.91,"body":"least some early reviews."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":931.25,"endTime":935.01,"body":"If you can get some of that, no matter your"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":931.25,"endTime":935.01,"body":"publishing path, if you can build up that"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":935.01,"endTime":936.13,"body":"credibility a bit,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":936.53,"endTime":941.53,"body":"that's a big help and it will go a long way"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":936.53,"endTime":941.53,"body":"post launch."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":941.53,"endTime":943.25,"body":"No matter your publishing path,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":944.53,"endTime":947.81,"body":"if you have that credibility, if people can"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":944.53,"endTime":947.81,"body":"Google and see,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":948.29,"endTime":953.85,"body":"oh, they've got a review here or an interview"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":948.29,"endTime":953.85,"body":"here, they were on this podcast and that kind"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":953.85,"endTime":954.29,"body":"of thing."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":955.25,"endTime":958.4,"body":"Which is why we do work so far in advance,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":958.96,"endTime":964.88,"body":"no matter the publishing path for publicity"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":958.96,"endTime":964.88,"body":"campaigns, specifically because it takes time"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":964.96,"endTime":972.16,"body":"to reach out to podcasts like y' all and"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":964.96,"endTime":972.16,"body":"things like that and organize things like"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":972.16,"endTime":972.48,"body":"this."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":973.44,"endTime":975.6,"body":"Because we do want, when the book comes out,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":976.08,"endTime":985.16,"body":"if it's a self published author and someone"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":976.08,"endTime":985.16,"body":"sees it on Amazon or bookshop that they can"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":985.16,"endTime":986.16,"body":"Google and they can see."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":986.16,"endTime":988.08,"body":"Like, oh well, someone's talked about this"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":988.08,"endTime":988.4,"body":"before."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":988.4,"endTime":991.84,"body":"Like that's so important with how many books"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":991.84,"endTime":996.88,"body":"come out every single year that you have"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":991.84,"endTime":996.88,"body":"something to, to back that up."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":998.0,"endTime":1004.72,"body":"Because there's just so many authors that you,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":998.0,"endTime":1004.72,"body":"you can just put up a book and you know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1005.68,"endTime":1008.16,"body":"pros, cons to that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1008.89,"endTime":1009.61,"body":"whatever you think,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1010.81,"endTime":1014.81,"body":"if you want to really establish your brand and"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1010.81,"endTime":1014.81,"body":"do this in the long run,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1016.01,"endTime":1018.01,"body":"it is important to build up that credibility."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1018.33,"endTime":1022.09,"body":"But it definitely does depend on publishing"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1018.33,"endTime":1022.09,"body":"path and we do get some,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1022.49,"endTime":1023.13,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1023.69,"endTime":1028.49,"body":"indie publish or self published authors that"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1023.69,"endTime":1028.49,"body":"you know, want to prioritize pre orders."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1028.57,"endTime":1030.41,"body":"And I think it is, it's stressful."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1030.41,"endTime":1032.13,"body":"I think there are so many other things that"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1032.13,"endTime":1035.77,"body":"you can focus on and worry about that stuff"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1032.13,"endTime":1035.77,"body":"later."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1035.77,"endTime":1037.29,"body":"Especially if you're doing a series,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1038.47,"endTime":1042.07,"body":"you know, save it for the next book in the"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1038.47,"endTime":1042.07,"body":"series, wait until you have some,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1042.55,"endTime":1043.35,"body":"some readers,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1043.91,"endTime":1049.55,"body":"you know, and prioritize preorder pre orders"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1043.91,"endTime":1049.55,"body":"for the subsequent books of the series at the"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1049.55,"endTime":1050.15,"body":"very least."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1051.27,"endTime":1053.03,"body":"But yeah, it definitely differs."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1053.51,"endTime":1055.35,"body":"Yeah, that makes a lot of sense."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1055.51,"endTime":1057.19,"body":"So picture like a pretty,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1057.83,"endTime":1059.51,"body":"I guess, run of the mill client."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1059.59,"endTime":1061.83,"body":"I'm sure that this is, everybody's different,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1061.91,"endTime":1064.71,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1061.91,"endTime":1064.71,"body":"But like imagine we have a general client."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1066.06,"endTime":1068.62,"body":"What if they approach you and they're like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1066.06,"endTime":1068.62,"body":"here are my goals."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1069.18,"endTime":1072.78,"body":"You know, what avenues are you kind of working"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1069.18,"endTime":1072.78,"body":"with to you?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1072.94,"endTime":1076.82,"body":"You've mentioned podcasts, you've mentioned"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1072.94,"endTime":1076.82,"body":"sponsored posts, you've mentioned ads."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1076.82,"endTime":1081.34,"body":"You know, just seems like there are so many"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1076.82,"endTime":1081.34,"body":"different things."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1082.06,"endTime":1082.62,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1082.62,"endTime":1086.7,"body":"How do you choose for each person?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1082.62,"endTime":1086.7,"body":"Like what's the best path forward?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1087.82,"endTime":1090.94,"body":"Yeah, well it, one of the things"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1087.82,"endTime":1090.94,"body":"is what's an author,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1091.34,"endTime":1095.5,"body":"an author comfortable with?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1091.34,"endTime":1095.5,"body":"Um, some authors aren't comfortable talking"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1095.5,"endTime":1096.34,"body":"about themselves."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1096.9,"endTime":1102.58,"body":"Um, so that immediately is like, okay, maybe"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1096.9,"endTime":1102.58,"body":"podcasts, radio shows are not going to be the"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1102.58,"endTime":1103.62,"body":"best option for them."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1104.42,"endTime":1108.74,"body":"Or maybe like let's prioritize like things"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1104.42,"endTime":1108.74,"body":"where they can write down their thoughts"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1109.46,"endTime":1113.06,"body":"instead of like saying it, you know, on a live"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1109.46,"endTime":1113.06,"body":"recording."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1114.1,"endTime":1115.1,"body":"I don't have that problem."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1115.1,"endTime":1116.66,"body":"I'll like you up all day."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1118.26,"endTime":1119.46,"body":"Welcome to the podcast."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1121.89,"endTime":1124.45,"body":"But yeah, so it depends like what"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1121.89,"endTime":1124.45,"body":"people are comfortable with."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1124.45,"endTime":1125.49,"body":"Some authors,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1126.13,"endTime":1131.29,"body":"if you haven't, if you have like, if you're an"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1126.13,"endTime":1131.29,"body":"expert in some area and you can really write a"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1131.29,"endTime":1134.29,"body":"lot on that, you know, non fiction authors are"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1131.29,"endTime":1134.29,"body":"really great for this."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1134.53,"endTime":1140.89,"body":"You know, maybe let's focus on, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1134.53,"endTime":1140.89,"body":"getting some articles placed and specific, you"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1140.89,"endTime":1144.21,"body":"know, whether it's like online medium, print"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1140.89,"endTime":1144.21,"body":"media."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1145.97,"endTime":1148.29,"body":"So yeah, it depends like what an author is"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1145.97,"endTime":1148.29,"body":"comfortable with,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1149.15,"endTime":1149.87,"body":"their genre,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1150.75,"endTime":1155.63,"body":"what they value Some authors, you know, they"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1150.75,"endTime":1155.63,"body":"just want reviews and it's like, okay, like,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1155.63,"endTime":1159.71,"body":"let's just focus on getting as many reviews in"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1155.63,"endTime":1159.71,"body":"as, as we can."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1159.79,"endTime":1163.67,"body":"We won't, you know, focus on interviews or"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1159.79,"endTime":1163.67,"body":"that kind of thing, and we'll just build up"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1163.67,"endTime":1164.27,"body":"reviews."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1165.31,"endTime":1168.79,"body":"So. And that's why we take that time on the"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1165.31,"endTime":1168.79,"body":"front end as well to, you know, to talk to"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1168.79,"endTime":1172.75,"body":"authors and, and kind of get an idea of, of"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1168.79,"endTime":1172.75,"body":"their goals specifically because."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1174.44,"endTime":1178.68,"body":"And that can even change, you know, like in"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1174.44,"endTime":1178.68,"body":"the middle of a campaign, like all of a"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1178.68,"endTime":1182.12,"body":"sudden, author will be like, I think I'm ready"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1178.68,"endTime":1182.12,"body":"for interviews now."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1183.08,"endTime":1187.12,"body":"You know, they've got that confidence now and"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1183.08,"endTime":1187.12,"body":"it's like, okay, so like, let's find, you"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1187.12,"endTime":1190.12,"body":"know, let's find you something where you can,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1187.12,"endTime":1190.12,"body":"you know, talk about yourself and about the"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1190.12,"endTime":1190.36,"body":"book."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1191.56,"endTime":1192.6,"body":"Yeah, it depends."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1193.08,"endTime":1194.12,"body":"Every author is different,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1194.92,"endTime":1200.12,"body":"but yeah, it depends on what they value and"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1194.92,"endTime":1200.12,"body":"what their goals are and what their budget is"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1200.12,"endTime":1200.84,"body":"again, because,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1201.26,"endTime":1207.18,"body":"you know, some authors are going to have more"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1201.26,"endTime":1207.18,"body":"to devote to things like advertising and maybe"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1207.18,"endTime":1209.42,"body":"like sponsor posts with influencers."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1209.42,"endTime":1211.38,"body":"And, you know, some budgets might not be as"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1211.38,"endTime":1211.58,"body":"big."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1211.58,"endTime":1214.78,"body":"Like maybe we can only reach out to"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1211.58,"endTime":1214.78,"body":"influencers who can,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1215.42,"endTime":1219.26,"body":"you know, just take an arc and let's hope that"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1215.42,"endTime":1219.26,"body":"they review it like that kind of thing."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1220.7,"endTime":1222.02,"body":"So, yeah, that depends as well."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1222.02,"endTime":1225.66,"body":"Budget's a big one in the industry,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1226.22,"endTime":1229.28,"body":"which is unfortunate, but that's how it goes."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1229.36,"endTime":1230.08,"body":"We adapt."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1231.04,"endTime":1231.52,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1231.52,"endTime":1235.88,"body":"Are there any, like, pieces, you know,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1231.52,"endTime":1235.88,"body":"pieces of that puzzle piece of the strategy"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1235.88,"endTime":1239.04,"body":"that you see as like, mostly non negotiable?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1241.2,"endTime":1243.32,"body":"Oh, like on our end or the."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1243.32,"endTime":1245.96,"body":"Author'S end, like just in general with"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1243.32,"endTime":1245.96,"body":"book marketing."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1245.96,"endTime":1248.88,"body":"Like, are there certain things that you're"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1245.96,"endTime":1248.88,"body":"like, an author really should do this."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1250.0,"endTime":1254.48,"body":"I always say every author asks me,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1250.0,"endTime":1254.48,"body":"like, what they should spend their money on."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1255.23,"endTime":1260.15,"body":"And I always say, don't spend it on marketing"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1255.23,"endTime":1260.15,"body":"and advertising if you're not going to spend"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1260.15,"endTime":1262.59,"body":"it on editing and a book cover."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1264.75,"endTime":1266.11,"body":"Because I can do a lot,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1266.75,"endTime":1267.39,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1267.71,"endTime":1268.99,"body":"to make you sound great,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1269.39,"endTime":1273.71,"body":"but the moment someone opens a book and sees"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1269.39,"endTime":1273.71,"body":"that it hasn't been edited,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1274.35,"endTime":1276.03,"body":"you know, that's, they're going to close it."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1276.27,"endTime":1276.67,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1278.19,"endTime":1281.23,"body":"And a lot of people are hesitant to do that,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1278.19,"endTime":1281.23,"body":"or they want to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1281.84,"endTime":1283.76,"body":"they want to skimp or they want to get around"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1281.84,"endTime":1283.76,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1284.88,"endTime":1291.76,"body":"Finding an editor that has edited books is so"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1284.88,"endTime":1291.76,"body":"important and has edited in your genre"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1291.84,"endTime":1293.44,"body":"specifically is so important."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1294.0,"endTime":1298.08,"body":"Like a developmental editor, a line editor, a"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1294.0,"endTime":1298.08,"body":"copy editor, a proofreader."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1298.8,"endTime":1304.04,"body":"Maybe you can't like get every single one of"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1298.8,"endTime":1304.04,"body":"those, but at least getting the big ones"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1304.04,"endTime":1313.86,"body":"because readers notice and if you're really,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1304.04,"endTime":1313.86,"body":"especially if you are planning to write"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1313.86,"endTime":1318.22,"body":"multiple books and you want to build up a fan"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1313.86,"endTime":1318.22,"body":"base and a readership,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1318.62,"endTime":1321.1,"body":"you've got to spend that money on the front"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1318.62,"endTime":1321.1,"body":"end."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1322.22,"endTime":1325.02,"body":"And people judge books by their covers, like,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1322.22,"endTime":1325.02,"body":"you know."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1325.5,"endTime":1326.38,"body":"Yeah, they do."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1326.86,"endTime":1327.34,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1327.98,"endTime":1328.98,"body":"I love that answer."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1328.98,"endTime":1329.78,"body":"That's a great answer."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1329.78,"endTime":1333.9,"body":"So the reason I'm asking is I feel like when"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1329.78,"endTime":1333.9,"body":"we talk to folks in our community, in our"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1334.22,"endTime":1339.64,"body":"sphere about marketing, a lot of times people"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1334.22,"endTime":1339.64,"body":"see, see social media as non negotiable."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1340.2,"endTime":1344.6,"body":"And so I'm so curious, like, do you ever work"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1340.2,"endTime":1344.6,"body":"with people who are like, nope,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1345.0,"endTime":1348.36,"body":"I'm not going to use social media and see"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1345.0,"endTime":1348.36,"body":"success, like, honestly."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1348.52,"endTime":1349.96,"body":"Because I'm, I'm just so curious."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1349.96,"endTime":1351.44,"body":"Like on your side, you've worked with a lot of"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1351.44,"endTime":1354.44,"body":"different authors, you've seen a lot of"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1351.44,"endTime":1354.44,"body":"different versions of success, I'm sure."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1355.32,"endTime":1356.92,"body":"And so like, what are your thoughts on that?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1357.88,"endTime":1358.92,"body":"I honestly,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1359.4,"endTime":1364.4,"body":"I tell authors never to do anything they don't"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1359.4,"endTime":1364.4,"body":"want to do because that's how I am as a"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1364.4,"endTime":1364.68,"body":"person."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1365.34,"endTime":1369.58,"body":"I'm not going to do something I don't want to"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1365.34,"endTime":1369.58,"body":"do because it feels like homework and it feels"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1369.58,"endTime":1372.62,"body":"like a chore and the moment you don't enjoy"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1369.58,"endTime":1372.62,"body":"doing it,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1373.82,"endTime":1376.22,"body":"it's the quality is going to suffer."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1376.86,"endTime":1378.94,"body":"And I do, I see that with authors who,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1379.42,"endTime":1384.3,"body":"you know, they plan out things and they write"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1379.42,"endTime":1384.3,"body":"out their captions and everything starts to"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1384.3,"endTime":1389.58,"body":"look stale and formulated and it's not"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1384.3,"endTime":1389.58,"body":"genuine, it's not like engaging."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1389.58,"endTime":1390.14,"body":"They're not."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1390.14,"endTime":1391.82,"body":"Their purpose isn't to build a community."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1391.82,"endTime":1393.34,"body":"Their purpose is to sell books."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1393.75,"endTime":1397.75,"body":"And like, so first and foremost, if you're"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1393.75,"endTime":1397.75,"body":"going to be on social media, you have to like,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1397.75,"endTime":1400.87,"body":"get it out of your head that it's going to"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1397.75,"endTime":1400.87,"body":"help you sell books."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1400.87,"endTime":1402.23,"body":"Because that's not the point of it."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1402.39,"endTime":1404.87,"body":"The point of social media is to build a"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1404.87,"endTime":1405.19,"body":"community,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1406.55,"endTime":1412.31,"body":"you know, of readers of other authors,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1406.55,"endTime":1412.31,"body":"whoever, who are going to resonate with you as"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1412.31,"endTime":1418.55,"body":"an author and hopefully buy your book?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1412.31,"endTime":1418.55,"body":"You know, that's the secondary goal."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1419.79,"endTime":1422.11,"body":"But yeah, I never tell authors to do anything"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1419.79,"endTime":1422.11,"body":"they don't want to do."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1423.79,"endTime":1424.59,"body":"And yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1424.99,"endTime":1431.27,"body":"I'm working with an author right now doing"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1424.99,"endTime":1431.27,"body":"some digital advertising and he's an older"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1431.27,"endTime":1434.59,"body":"author and he doesn't want to do it and that's"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1431.27,"endTime":1434.59,"body":"totally fine."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1434.67,"endTime":1440.67,"body":"And he's got a really quality book that just"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1434.67,"endTime":1440.67,"body":"consistently brings in sales because it's"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1440.67,"endTime":1441.15,"body":"quality."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1442.59,"endTime":1444.91,"body":"He's built up the reviews now that,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1445.52,"endTime":1450.32,"body":"you know, if you look at the book on Amazon,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1445.52,"endTime":1450.32,"body":"it's, you know, it speaks for itself."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1450.72,"endTime":1454.96,"body":"So, you know, someone doesn't have to go to"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1450.72,"endTime":1454.96,"body":"Instagram."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1454.96,"endTime":1455.84,"body":"And yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1456.24,"endTime":1456.8,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1457.52,"endTime":1462.08,"body":"they don't, they don't want to know what, you"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1457.52,"endTime":1462.08,"body":"know, his thoughts are on the Million Lives"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1462.08,"endTime":1463.36,"body":"Book festival or whatever."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1464.72,"endTime":1465.68,"body":"It was a mess."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1467.2,"endTime":1469.12,"body":"It's all over my feet."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1470.88,"endTime":1472.36,"body":"That's all I can think about right"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1470.88,"endTime":1472.36,"body":"now."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1472.36,"endTime":1475.36,"body":"But horrible publicity."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1477.26,"endTime":1478.78,"body":"Case studies written about it."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1480.78,"endTime":1485.1,"body":"But yeah, you can have success and"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1480.78,"endTime":1485.1,"body":"you can find success and maybe you devote your"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1485.1,"endTime":1490.7,"body":"time to other things, like maybe you devote"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1485.1,"endTime":1490.7,"body":"your time to more interviews or more events,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1491.66,"endTime":1498.1,"body":"you know, more kind of boots on the ground in"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1491.66,"endTime":1498.1,"body":"person things or, or your email newsletter or"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1498.1,"endTime":1499.18,"body":"like that kind of stuff."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1500.06,"endTime":1503.34,"body":"Because. Yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't even"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1500.06,"endTime":1503.34,"body":"like social media that much."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1503.34,"endTime":1505.98,"body":"Like, the moment I'm like, not doing it for"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1503.34,"endTime":1505.98,"body":"work, I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1506.32,"endTime":1509.68,"body":"it's just my cat, you know, that's basically"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1506.32,"endTime":1509.68,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1510.32,"endTime":1511.76,"body":"So I understand,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1512.32,"endTime":1512.96,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1513.6,"endTime":1516.08,"body":"why people wouldn't want to do it."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1517.28,"endTime":1519.28,"body":"So. Yeah, but if you're going to do it, you"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1517.28,"endTime":1519.28,"body":"have to."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1520.88,"endTime":1525.0,"body":"What is that, like Ron Swanson quote?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1520.88,"endTime":1525.0,"body":"Like, don't like, half ass one thing."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1525.0,"endTime":1525.84,"body":"Like whole ass."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1526.96,"endTime":1527.32,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1527.32,"endTime":1529.2,"body":"Don't half ass a lot of things."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1529.6,"endTime":1530.72,"body":"Whole ass one thing."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1530.72,"endTime":1531.76,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1533.38,"endTime":1533.86,"body":"So, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1535.54,"endTime":1536.74,"body":"you can see success."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1536.9,"endTime":1539.7,"body":"It's just a matter of, like, putting intention"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1540.26,"endTime":1541.78,"body":"behind, like, what you're doing."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1542.5,"endTime":1547.14,"body":"And that's why I think a lot of authors who"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1542.5,"endTime":1547.14,"body":"are on social media might not be seeing the"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1547.14,"endTime":1548.54,"body":"results that they want to be seeing."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1548.54,"endTime":1550.3,"body":"It's because they're not putting the right"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1550.3,"endTime":1551.7,"body":"intention behind it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1552.34,"endTime":1554.26,"body":"Yeah. Or like on the right platform,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1554.66,"endTime":1555.54,"body":"like, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1556.02,"endTime":1562.07,"body":"like Instagram, I have completely stopped,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1556.02,"endTime":1562.07,"body":"like, trying to market my books."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1562.23,"endTime":1567.15,"body":"It's only I have really been embracing, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1562.23,"endTime":1567.15,"body":"the community aspect."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1567.15,"endTime":1571.47,"body":"But on TikTok, it just seems like it, like"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1567.15,"endTime":1571.47,"body":"that's where the readers are."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1571.47,"endTime":1575.99,"body":"And so nobody cares if you're just marketing a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1571.47,"endTime":1575.99,"body":"book because you're scrolling through like a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1575.99,"endTime":1577.11,"body":"thousand videos at once."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1577.67,"endTime":1578.07,"body":"So,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1578.55,"endTime":1582.27,"body":"like, I don't even see half my friends things"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1578.55,"endTime":1582.27,"body":"on TikTok."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1582.27,"endTime":1583.03,"body":"Like, they just don't."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1583.03,"endTime":1583.43,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1583.83,"endTime":1587.63,"body":"So the community aspect on TikTok is a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1583.83,"endTime":1587.63,"body":"lot more difficult to achieve."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1587.63,"endTime":1589.51,"body":"But I think the viewers that are there, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1590.83,"endTime":1592.43,"body":"many of them aren't looking for that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1592.91,"endTime":1593.59,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1593.59,"endTime":1595.95,"body":"But on Instagram, it definitely feels like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1597.47,"endTime":1598.59,"body":"don't sell me your book."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1599.07,"endTime":1601.15,"body":"I just want to see pictures of your cats."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1601.31,"endTime":1602.03,"body":"And I'm like, great."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1602.43,"endTime":1604.87,"body":"They're looking for community in a"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1602.43,"endTime":1604.87,"body":"different sense."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1604.87,"endTime":1606.19,"body":"You know, maybe they're."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1606.43,"endTime":1609.15,"body":"They're looking for people who read the same"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1609.15,"endTime":1612.51,"body":"things that they read and just want to be able"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1609.15,"endTime":1612.51,"body":"to,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1612.91,"endTime":1613.55,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1613.87,"endTime":1617.43,"body":"talk about these specific books and."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1617.43,"endTime":1619.27,"body":"Or they want to be able to talk about, you"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1619.27,"endTime":1622.19,"body":"know, these specific, like this fan fiction or"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1619.27,"endTime":1622.19,"body":"etc."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1622.59,"endTime":1626.39,"body":"So it might not be like community in the same"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1622.59,"endTime":1626.39,"body":"sense of the word that we think of it, like,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1626.39,"endTime":1630.59,"body":"on Instagram or Facebook, where it's just like"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1626.39,"endTime":1630.59,"body":"your family and your high school friends,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1631.71,"endTime":1634.43,"body":"but it, like, in a different sense, it is, you"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1631.71,"endTime":1634.43,"body":"know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1634.91,"endTime":1635.95,"body":"more of a niche."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1637.55,"endTime":1639.23,"body":"It's like shared interests."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1639.47,"endTime":1639.83,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1639.83,"endTime":1641.39,"body":"And let's connect about that."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1641.75,"endTime":1642.39,"body":"Yeah. Yes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1643.27,"endTime":1648.79,"body":"Yeah. I think, like, one of the other"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1643.27,"endTime":1648.79,"body":"things that I've been thinking or wondering is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1650.07,"endTime":1654.87,"body":"when you form a strategy with the author that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1650.07,"endTime":1654.87,"body":"comes to work with you,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1655.35,"endTime":1657.07,"body":"do you then, like, get."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1657.07,"endTime":1659.07,"body":"I'm just like, picturing, how do they do it?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1659.07,"endTime":1661.43,"body":"Like, what's execution look like?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1659.07,"endTime":1661.43,"body":"Do they give."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1661.43,"endTime":1665.55,"body":"Do you, like, give them, like, a spreadsheet"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1661.43,"endTime":1665.55,"body":"and you're like, make all these posts on this"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1665.55,"endTime":1665.91,"body":"day?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1666.15,"endTime":1668.31,"body":"Are you obviously, like, organizing,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1668.91,"endTime":1674.59,"body":"you know, interviews or articles and things"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1668.91,"endTime":1674.59,"body":"like that is a little different, but how are"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1674.59,"endTime":1674.95,"body":"you do."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1674.95,"endTime":1676.99,"body":"How are we executing this strategy?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1676.99,"endTime":1678.11,"body":"What does that look like?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1678.35,"endTime":1679.63,"body":"It's a lot of spreadsheets."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1679.63,"endTime":1680.91,"body":"I love a spreadsheet."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1680.91,"endTime":1681.31,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1681.79,"endTime":1682.67,"body":"My best friends,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1684.99,"endTime":1685.47,"body":"we do."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1685.47,"endTime":1686.83,"body":"We have a lot of documents."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1687.31,"endTime":1691.15,"body":"We. We have documents that help authors, like,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1687.31,"endTime":1691.15,"body":"keep track of,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1691.47,"endTime":1693.15,"body":"you know, who we're pitching,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1694.44,"endTime":1695.4,"body":"like, our company."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1695.72,"endTime":1698.68,"body":"You know, we reach out, we pitch places, like,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1695.72,"endTime":1698.68,"body":"individually."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1699.08,"endTime":1702.84,"body":"So, you know, like, the pitch I sent y' all is"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1699.08,"endTime":1702.84,"body":"not going to be the pitch I sent a different"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1702.84,"endTime":1703.48,"body":"podcast,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1705.08,"endTime":1705.8,"body":"hopefully."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1708.04,"endTime":1712.92,"body":"So, you know, we have, like, resources like"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1708.04,"endTime":1712.92,"body":"that for them to keep track of, and we do."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1713.4,"endTime":1717.12,"body":"I'm pretty meticulous with my notes, so if I"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1713.4,"endTime":1717.12,"body":"have, like, I have, like, notes for."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1717.12,"endTime":1719.64,"body":"This is your interview time and this is your"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1717.12,"endTime":1719.64,"body":"zoom link."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1720.15,"endTime":1723.87,"body":"Um, and then we have, like, separate things"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1720.15,"endTime":1723.87,"body":"for send a reminder, like, all that kind of"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1723.87,"endTime":1724.15,"body":"stuff."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1724.15,"endTime":1726.27,"body":"I know there are some, like, I see on TikTok"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1726.27,"endTime":1728.07,"body":"all the time, like, specific, like,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1728.55,"endTime":1731.67,"body":"platforms for organizing that kind of stuff."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1732.15,"endTime":1736.31,"body":"But yeah, it is, like, a lot of spreadsheets"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1732.15,"endTime":1736.31,"body":"and a lot of email."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1736.31,"endTime":1736.71,"body":"Like,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1737.43,"endTime":1740.07,"body":"66% of my job is just, like,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1740.39,"endTime":1746.63,"body":"being on my email and responding and being"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1740.39,"endTime":1746.63,"body":"there, like, for an author, too."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1746.63,"endTime":1750.33,"body":"It is like being a resource for an author"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1746.63,"endTime":1750.33,"body":"because they're going to have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1750.33,"endTime":1754.61,"body":"questions, especially, you know, not just if"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1750.33,"endTime":1754.61,"body":"they're a debut author, because, again, things"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1754.61,"endTime":1758.25,"body":"change so much if your publishing path changes"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1754.61,"endTime":1758.25,"body":"or,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1758.25,"endTime":1763.53,"body":"you know, if TikTok goes down and you've got"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1758.25,"endTime":1763.53,"body":"to switch up, you know, your plan or something"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1763.53,"endTime":1764.09,"body":"like that."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1764.17,"endTime":1765.41,"body":"Things change all the time."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1765.41,"endTime":1770.53,"body":"So, like, being a resource and staying"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1765.41,"endTime":1770.53,"body":"connected with someone, you know, that's kind"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1770.53,"endTime":1772.41,"body":"of where it feels very Much like a,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1772.73,"endTime":1774.77,"body":"like an agent relationship as well."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1774.77,"endTime":1777.97,"body":"Like just being there for an author or"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1777.97,"endTime":1779.25,"body":"therapists sometimes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1779.33,"endTime":1781.01,"body":"Because it's a stress."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1781.01,"endTime":1782.21,"body":"It's a stressful industry."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1782.45,"endTime":1783.89,"body":"Like, it really, really is."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1785.65,"endTime":1787.41,"body":"And so I've, I've heard of,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1787.97,"endTime":1788.61,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1789.09,"endTime":1790.61,"body":"if you can name it, I've heard it."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1790.61,"endTime":1791.01,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1792.85,"endTime":1794.45,"body":"But yeah, we, we."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1794.61,"endTime":1797.45,"body":"And that's again too why we try and work so"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1797.45,"endTime":1802.33,"body":"far in advance too, so we can make sure that"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1797.45,"endTime":1802.33,"body":"we're devoting as much time as possible, you"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1802.33,"endTime":1802.61,"body":"know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1803.1,"endTime":1810.3,"body":"to every campaign because we want to be able"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1803.1,"endTime":1810.3,"body":"to do right by our authors."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1810.86,"endTime":1811.82,"body":"Yeah, for sure."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1812.78,"endTime":1813.9,"body":"How have you seen,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1814.54,"endTime":1816.7,"body":"like, where do you see this change going?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1817.1,"endTime":1818.7,"body":"You know, like I ever."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1818.7,"endTime":1819.26,"body":"I just."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1820.06,"endTime":1821.82,"body":"TikTok goes down, then what."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1822.06,"endTime":1825.06,"body":"Or all, you know, there's AI now and you can"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1825.06,"endTime":1828.7,"body":"just ask AI to make you a marketing strategy"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1825.06,"endTime":1828.7,"body":"and like, boom, here it is."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1828.7,"endTime":1830.1,"body":"So like, where obvious."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1830.1,"endTime":1833.22,"body":"I'm. Obviously you're not using AI to do that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1833.3,"endTime":1835.54,"body":"But like, where do you see the industry"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1835.7,"endTime":1840.42,"body":"continuing to change the last couple years, I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1835.7,"endTime":1840.42,"body":"mean, the last five years have just been."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1840.82,"endTime":1841.22,"body":"It's."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1841.22,"endTime":1841.62,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1841.78,"endTime":1843.06,"body":"So so much different."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1843.94,"endTime":1848.18,"body":"I mean, I think social media is"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1843.94,"endTime":1848.18,"body":"always, at least for the near future,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1848.66,"endTime":1855.9,"body":"going to be one, if not the biggest things,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1848.66,"endTime":1855.9,"body":"which is again, so different than 10, 15 years"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1855.9,"endTime":1856.18,"body":"ago,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1856.75,"endTime":1860.43,"body":"you know, where traditional media was"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1856.75,"endTime":1860.43,"body":"prioritized."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1862.59,"endTime":1865.63,"body":"And maybe if TikTok is gone one day,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1866.03,"endTime":1870.03,"body":"you know, then it'll be back to Instagram or"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1866.03,"endTime":1870.03,"body":"maybe some other thing will take over."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1870.35,"endTime":1871.95,"body":"Usually some other thing takes over."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1871.95,"endTime":1873.91,"body":"You know, there's always something in the"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1873.91,"endTime":1879.31,"body":"works and being able to adapt to stuff like"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1873.91,"endTime":1879.31,"body":"that is also just part of the job."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1881.47,"endTime":1884.36,"body":"But AI worries me."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1885.72,"endTime":1887.24,"body":"We. I see it."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1887.88,"endTime":1893.32,"body":"I guess I'm more concerned with it on the"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1887.88,"endTime":1893.32,"body":"publishing side of things because I do know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1893.56,"endTime":1895.8,"body":"you know, I like lurk around in Reddit."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1895.8,"endTime":1898.68,"body":"I see authors who are using it to just like"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1898.68,"endTime":1900.6,"body":"batch out books and stuff like that."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1901.96,"endTime":1903.4,"body":"You know, I. And there are,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1903.72,"endTime":1904.28,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1904.68,"endTime":1907.56,"body":"publishing companies who are using AI to,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1908.06,"endTime":1910.66,"body":"to format and distribute and things like that."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1910.66,"endTime":1912.86,"body":"And so it's very."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1914.38,"endTime":1915.74,"body":"It's going to be interesting."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1915.74,"endTime":1917.34,"body":"I think people just kind of have to stay"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1917.34,"endTime":1918.46,"body":"vigilant with that."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1918.46,"endTime":1922.06,"body":"And if you have values like holding to that,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1922.94,"endTime":1923.98,"body":"you know, we don't,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1925.02,"endTime":1926.06,"body":"you know, we look,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1926.54,"endTime":1930.06,"body":"you know, at submissions and like, is this"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1926.54,"endTime":1930.06,"body":"cover like AI?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1930.3,"endTime":1930.86,"body":"You know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1931.34,"endTime":1933.98,"body":"is there like generative AI with it?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1931.34,"endTime":1933.98,"body":"You know, was this."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1934.2,"endTime":1937.6,"body":"Does this look like it was edited by AI and"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1934.2,"endTime":1937.6,"body":"that kind of stuff?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1937.6,"endTime":1939.8,"body":"And again, it's not to say that AI can't be"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1937.6,"endTime":1939.8,"body":"useful."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1939.8,"endTime":1941.8,"body":"Like, you know, that kind of stuff is very"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1939.8,"endTime":1941.8,"body":"useful."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1943.24,"endTime":1946.04,"body":"But what is it being used for?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1947.08,"endTime":1952.36,"body":"So I think publishing is going to have to kind"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1947.08,"endTime":1952.36,"body":"of have a reckoning with that in the next few"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1953.0,"endTime":1953.4,"body":"years,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1955.08,"endTime":1959.48,"body":"but especially with things like social media"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1955.08,"endTime":1959.48,"body":"and stuff like that."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1960.07,"endTime":1962.39,"body":"I've seen accounts that are just purely like,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1962.71,"endTime":1966.31,"body":"AI content and stuff like that, and it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1962.71,"endTime":1966.31,"body":"appeal to me,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1966.63,"endTime":1968.47,"body":"and I don't think it appeals to most people."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1968.47,"endTime":1972.27,"body":"I think the point of social media and that"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1972.27,"endTime":1976.149,"body":"it's interaction and it's engagement, and"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1972.27,"endTime":1976.149,"body":"again, it's like creating that community."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1977.03,"endTime":1983.95,"body":"And if you're not doing that again, people"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1977.03,"endTime":1983.95,"body":"know they're able, you know, they're able to"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1983.95,"endTime":1986.23,"body":"see if you have 70,000 followers,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1986.93,"endTime":1990.37,"body":"that they're probably bots, you know, that you"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1986.93,"endTime":1990.37,"body":"bought, you bought."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1992.29,"endTime":1994.45,"body":"They're able to sniff that stuff out."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1994.85,"endTime":2002.37,"body":"And so I think it's really important to do the"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":1994.85,"endTime":2002.37,"body":"legwork if you want to see,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2003.41,"endTime":2007.25,"body":"you know, the reward in the end, which is not"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2003.41,"endTime":2007.25,"body":"to say that everyone's going to do that, but."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2007.89,"endTime":2010.21,"body":"Yeah, you know, not to be depressing."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2010.53,"endTime":2012.21,"body":"Oh, no, no, not at all."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2012.21,"endTime":2012.65,"body":"It's."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2012.88,"endTime":2014.16,"body":"It's good food for thought."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2015.6,"endTime":2017.2,"body":"Yeah. This is all so fascinating."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2017.36,"endTime":2017.96,"body":"Fascinating."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2017.96,"endTime":2022.72,"body":"And I'm watching the clock because I don't"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2017.96,"endTime":2022.72,"body":"want to run you out of time, but I'm curious."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2024.32,"endTime":2029.04,"body":"For folks who are starting out right, we have"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2024.32,"endTime":2029.04,"body":"a lot of folks who are working on their"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2029.04,"endTime":2033.04,"body":"drafts, and so they've got in the back of"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2029.04,"endTime":2033.04,"body":"their mind that they need to be,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2033.36,"endTime":2035.92,"body":"you know, prepping for their marketing."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2036.16,"endTime":2038.44,"body":"What advice would you have for folks like"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2038.44,"endTime":2039.28,"body":"that, maybe even,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2039.6,"endTime":2041.84,"body":"you know, before they reach out to someone"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2039.6,"endTime":2041.84,"body":"like you?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2041.84,"endTime":2046.0,"body":"Like, what kind of ducks in a row do we want"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2041.84,"endTime":2046.0,"body":"to start placing?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2046.64,"endTime":2047.28,"body":"You know,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2047.84,"endTime":2051.2,"body":"do we want to start placing ducks in a row"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2047.84,"endTime":2051.2,"body":"before our draft is finished?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2051.2,"endTime":2051.44,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2051.44,"endTime":2052.72,"body":"Or do we wait until after?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2052.72,"endTime":2054.08,"body":"Like, do you have any advice on."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2054.72,"endTime":2055.36,"body":"On where,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2056.16,"endTime":2059.76,"body":"you know, folks who are in that stage could"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2056.16,"endTime":2059.76,"body":"start putting their attention?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2060.48,"endTime":2061.36,"body":"That's a good question,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2061.84,"endTime":2063.2,"body":"and I see it a lot, too."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2064.0,"endTime":2066.8,"body":"Ultimately, I think if you're close to"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2064.0,"endTime":2066.8,"body":"finishing something,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2067.6,"endTime":2069.36,"body":"then that's the time to start."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2069.44,"endTime":2071.44,"body":"Kind of looking like."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2071.68,"endTime":2076.52,"body":"I don't want authors to, like, be like George"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2071.68,"endTime":2076.52,"body":"R.R. martin and be like, I'm working on"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2076.52,"endTime":2076.88,"body":"something."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2076.88,"endTime":2078.32,"body":"Like, that's the last thing you want, right,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2078.32,"endTime":2080.0,"body":"is be like, I'm working on this thing."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2080.48,"endTime":2084.24,"body":"And you start, like, telling people about it,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2080.48,"endTime":2084.24,"body":"and you start, like, building buzz,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2084.56,"endTime":2085.68,"body":"and then it never comes."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2086.24,"endTime":2090.56,"body":"So that's why, you know, I say be close to"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2086.24,"endTime":2090.56,"body":"finishing it."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2091.92,"endTime":2093.8,"body":"And if you're querying like, that's."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2094.03,"endTime":2095.31,"body":"I think that's fine to talk about,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2096.35,"endTime":2100.39,"body":"but especially if you're, you're you know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2096.35,"endTime":2100.39,"body":"indie published or you're self published and"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2100.39,"endTime":2101.03,"body":"you're, you're."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2101.03,"endTime":2103.51,"body":"It'll be out soon, you know, then that's"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2103.51,"endTime":2104.15,"body":"definitely the time."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2104.15,"endTime":2105.87,"body":"If you're like, close to finishing."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2106.99,"endTime":2112.51,"body":"Getting your, like your network, like your"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2106.99,"endTime":2112.51,"body":"direct network involved is truly like the"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2112.51,"endTime":2116.27,"body":"easiest place to start because you're probably"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2112.51,"endTime":2116.27,"body":"already telling them that you're writing a"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2116.27,"endTime":2118.51,"body":"book or you should be,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2119.81,"endTime":2125.73,"body":"and you can start engaging them and letting"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2119.81,"endTime":2125.73,"body":"them know, you know, I've got this coming out."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2125.81,"endTime":2128.85,"body":"Like, you know, can it, can they be a beta"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2125.81,"endTime":2128.85,"body":"reader?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2129.41,"endTime":2132.53,"body":"You know, can they leave early reviews and"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2129.41,"endTime":2132.53,"body":"that kind of thing?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2133.65,"endTime":2134.05,"body":"Because,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2134.45,"endTime":2138.05,"body":"you know, if they're your friend or your"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2134.45,"endTime":2138.05,"body":"family member, you should be able to call in a"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2138.05,"endTime":2138.45,"body":"favor."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2139.17,"endTime":2145.9,"body":"So that's like kind of the easy, like, direct"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2139.17,"endTime":2145.9,"body":"stuff that you can get to if you're like"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2145.9,"endTime":2146.9,"body":"finishing up things."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2146.9,"endTime":2149.1,"body":"But yeah, I would say be close to being done."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2149.5,"endTime":2152.3,"body":"You know, if you're, if you've got an idea,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2149.5,"endTime":2152.3,"body":"that's great."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2153.58,"endTime":2157.98,"body":"But especially if it's your first book and"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2153.58,"endTime":2157.98,"body":"you've got an idea, you know, I would say work"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2157.98,"endTime":2158.46,"body":"on it."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2158.94,"endTime":2162.74,"body":"If you've got some books out and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2158.94,"endTime":2162.74,"body":"you're just, you're active and you know that"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2162.74,"endTime":2163.26,"body":"kind of thing,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2163.9,"endTime":2166.38,"body":"you know, you can put some feelers out into"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2163.9,"endTime":2166.38,"body":"the air."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2167.34,"endTime":2171.18,"body":"But yeah, you just don't want people to be"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2167.34,"endTime":2171.18,"body":"waiting on something that never comes."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2172.09,"endTime":2175.13,"body":"But yeah, get your direct network involved."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2175.13,"endTime":2177.73,"body":"And then, you know, once you do have, usually"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2177.73,"endTime":2179.45,"body":"by the time you're like editing,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2180.81,"endTime":2182.81,"body":"that's a good time to start, like,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2183.37,"endTime":2188.97,"body":"really preparing, like a marketing plan and"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2183.37,"endTime":2188.97,"body":"about like a year from launch,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2189.29,"endTime":2190.09,"body":"if you can,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2190.73,"endTime":2194.33,"body":"that's usually a good time to start, like"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2190.73,"endTime":2194.33,"body":"putting things into place."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2194.33,"endTime":2197.05,"body":"You know, do I have my social media if I'm"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2194.33,"endTime":2197.05,"body":"going to do that?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2197.94,"endTime":2198.34,"body":"You know,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2199.06,"endTime":2202.82,"body":"do I have a press kit or, you know, if you"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2199.06,"endTime":2202.82,"body":"don't have a publisher or things like that,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2202.82,"endTime":2205.78,"body":"and who am I going to pitch?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2202.82,"endTime":2205.78,"body":"You know, do I have an arc team?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2205.78,"endTime":2209.18,"body":"Like that kind of stuff and slowly building"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2205.78,"endTime":2209.18,"body":"that out again."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2209.18,"endTime":2210.74,"body":"Because if you're going to do this all on your"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2209.18,"endTime":2210.74,"body":"own,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2211.06,"endTime":2214.58,"body":"you want to make sure you give yourself enough"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2211.06,"endTime":2214.58,"body":"time and you're not just doing it three weeks"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2214.58,"endTime":2216.66,"body":"before the book comes out."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2218.1,"endTime":2219.94,"body":"And again, because it doesn't, you know, it's,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2220.5,"endTime":2224.49,"body":"you know, to what Rachel is saying, it's not"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2220.5,"endTime":2224.49,"body":"as big of a deal, like with pre orders and"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2224.49,"endTime":2227.93,"body":"stuff, but it really is just a, like a stress"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2224.49,"endTime":2227.93,"body":"thing."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2227.93,"endTime":2231.57,"body":"I don't like the feeling of I have all this to"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2227.93,"endTime":2231.57,"body":"do,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2232.13,"endTime":2234.13,"body":"you know, before my book launches."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2234.85,"endTime":2239.09,"body":"You know, I feel like authors Just need to"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2234.85,"endTime":2239.09,"body":"give themselves some time to,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2239.729,"endTime":2240.29,"body":"to plan."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2241.89,"endTime":2246.53,"body":"Yeah, I, it's so hard not to feel the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2241.89,"endTime":2246.53,"body":"pressure to, like, get it all done."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2247.73,"endTime":2248.21,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2248.37,"endTime":2252.61,"body":"I, I, People just put, like, the cart"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2248.37,"endTime":2252.61,"body":"before the horse a lot of the time."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2253.13,"endTime":2253.45,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2253.77,"endTime":2256.49,"body":"And I don't ever think slowing down is a bad"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2256.49,"endTime":2256.97,"body":"idea."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2257.93,"endTime":2258.33,"body":"No,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2258.81,"endTime":2259.85,"body":"no, definitely not."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2260.25,"endTime":2262.89,"body":"Especially if you're going to make sure that,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2260.25,"endTime":2262.89,"body":"like,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2263.29,"endTime":2265.29,"body":"because you don't want quality to suffer."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2265.45,"endTime":2269.049,"body":"You know, there's so much competition out"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2269.049,"endTime":2269.45,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2270.25,"endTime":2273.57,"body":"And if you're just, again, if you're just"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2270.25,"endTime":2273.57,"body":"publishing a book, to say that you're"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2273.57,"endTime":2277.61,"body":"publishing a book and you just want to, like,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2273.57,"endTime":2277.61,"body":"be able to show your friends and family,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2278.01,"endTime":2280.65,"body":"then do whatever you want, like, that's a"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2278.01,"endTime":2280.65,"body":"great accomplishment."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2280.65,"endTime":2282.73,"body":"I've never written a book and I don't plan to,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2284.09,"endTime":2285.21,"body":"so that's a great accomplishment."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2285.21,"endTime":2286.01,"body":"Like, do that."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2286.25,"endTime":2293.69,"body":"But if you want to try and make a career out"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2286.25,"endTime":2293.69,"body":"of this and, like, you know, try and amass,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2293.77,"endTime":2294.97,"body":"you know, a readership,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2295.37,"endTime":2297.77,"body":"then you definitely have to put the work in."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2297.77,"endTime":2301.29,"body":"It's not just going to come out of nowhere."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2302.89,"endTime":2303.37,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2303.53,"endTime":2304.09,"body":"Amazing."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2304.09,"endTime":2305.37,"body":"Well, thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2305.45,"endTime":2305.85,"body":"Then."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2306.49,"endTime":2308.41,"body":"Can you tell us a little bit more about how,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2308.95,"endTime":2312.31,"body":"you know, if people are interested in your"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2308.95,"endTime":2312.31,"body":"services, like, where they could find more"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2312.31,"endTime":2312.63,"body":"information?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2313.67,"endTime":2314.55,"body":"Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2317.67,"endTime":2320.87,"body":"So you can Visit us@booksforward.com that's"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2317.67,"endTime":2320.87,"body":"our website."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2321.75,"endTime":2325.19,"body":"We are also on Instagram, TikTok,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2326.39,"endTime":2331.11,"body":"LinkedIn, at Books Forward PR, and then we're"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2326.39,"endTime":2331.11,"body":"on Facebook, just at Books Forward."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2332.07,"endTime":2334.95,"body":"We don't do Twitter anymore, but we are,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2335.58,"endTime":2338.22,"body":"we're all still there if you just want to look"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2335.58,"endTime":2338.22,"body":"at what we used to do."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2339.58,"endTime":2341.02,"body":"And we have a great blog,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2341.34,"endTime":2344.86,"body":"our Lit Happens Blog, for, like, resources for"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2341.34,"endTime":2344.86,"body":"authors."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2345.98,"endTime":2350.78,"body":"You know, if you're just looking for, you"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2345.98,"endTime":2350.78,"body":"know, answers to questions like, why do books"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2350.78,"endTime":2353.18,"body":"publish on Tuesdays?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2350.78,"endTime":2353.18,"body":"You know, we've got a blog for that."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2353.26,"endTime":2353.66,"body":"So,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2355.1,"endTime":2356.38,"body":"yeah, it's a great resource."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2356.46,"endTime":2358.78,"body":"And so follow us on social media."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2359.1,"endTime":2363.46,"body":"And we, yeah, we have a contact form if you're"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2359.1,"endTime":2363.46,"body":"interested in reaching out to us."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2363.7,"endTime":2367.54,"body":"I might be the one responding, lurking in our"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2363.7,"endTime":2367.54,"body":"inbox."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2369.86,"endTime":2370.62,"body":"I love it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2370.62,"endTime":2371.46,"body":"That's awesome."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2371.78,"endTime":2374.46,"body":"Did you say that you had some, some things"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2374.46,"endTime":2376.54,"body":"coming up?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2374.46,"endTime":2376.54,"body":"Did you want to talk about those?"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2376.54,"endTime":2377.5,"body":"We do, yeah."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2377.5,"endTime":2381.34,"body":"So for our 25th anniversary, we have a few,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2381.34,"endTime":2383.62,"body":"like, free webinars planned,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2384.1,"endTime":2390.63,"body":"and we also have 25, like, free consultations"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2384.1,"endTime":2390.63,"body":"planned as well for authors, you know, in the"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2390.63,"endTime":2391.79,"body":"latter half of the year."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2391.79,"endTime":2392.67,"body":"So our first,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2393.55,"endTime":2399.35,"body":"our first webinar will be in July and it's"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2393.55,"endTime":2399.35,"body":"going to be like an Ask a Publicist webinar,"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2399.35,"endTime":2399.79,"body":"basically."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2399.95,"endTime":2402.35,"body":"So just kind of letting people submit their"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2402.35,"endTime":2405.07,"body":"questions, and we will go through and answer"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2402.35,"endTime":2405.07,"body":"them."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2406.11,"endTime":2410.35,"body":"And I will make sure that y' all can have the"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2406.11,"endTime":2410.35,"body":"link to include in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2410.91,"endTime":2411.95,"body":"Awesome. We'll put."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2412.11,"endTime":2415.66,"body":"We'll put a link to the website and the link"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2415.66,"endTime":2417.22,"body":"for the webinar coming up."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2417.3,"endTime":2419.22,"body":"So swipe up to see both of them."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2420.5,"endTime":2421.06,"body":"Yay."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2421.62,"endTime":2422.58,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2422.74,"endTime":2423.22,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2423.22,"endTime":2424.34,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2424.34,"endTime":2425.14,"body":"Thank y' all."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2426.1,"endTime":2428.34,"body":"Just pick your brain constantly about"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2426.1,"endTime":2428.34,"body":"all this."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2430.18,"endTime":2430.82,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2431.54,"endTime":2434.66,"body":"This is literally my favorite"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2431.54,"endTime":2434.66,"body":"thing in the world, so I'd rather like if I"},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2434.66,"endTime":2435.78,"body":"could do this all day, I would."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2435.78,"endTime":2436.34,"body":"Truly."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2436.9,"endTime":2441.74,"body":"This podcasting would be in your"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2436.9,"endTime":2441.74,"body":"marketing plan if you were ever to release a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2441.74,"endTime":2442.02,"body":"book."},{"speaker":"Jenn Vance","startTime":2442.99,"endTime":2444.11,"body":"Yeah, no. Truly."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2447.07,"endTime":2447.71,"body":"Amazing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2448.67,"endTime":2452.67,"body":"If you want to build a successful,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2448.67,"endTime":2452.67,"body":"fulfilling, and sustainable writing life that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2452.67,"endTime":2454.91,"body":"works for you, you've got to get on our email"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2452.67,"endTime":2454.91,"body":"list."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2455.15,"endTime":2458.51,"body":"Sign up now to get our free email"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2455.15,"endTime":2458.51,"body":"course, the Magic of Character Arcs."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2458.51,"endTime":2462.51,"body":"After seven days of email magic, you'll have"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2458.51,"endTime":2462.51,"body":"the power to keep your readers flipping pages"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2462.51,"endTime":2463.39,"body":"all through the night."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2463.71,"endTime":2464.75,"body":"Link in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2464.75,"endTime":2465.55,"body":"We'll see you there."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2466.51,"endTime":2467.07,"body":"Bye."}]}