{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":0.24,"endTime":0.56,"body":"Foreign."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":13.6,"endTime":14.52,"body":"Hey, writers."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":14.52,"endTime":16.92,"body":"Welcome back to Story Magic, the podcast that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":16.92,"endTime":18.96,"body":"will help you write a book you're damn proud"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":16.92,"endTime":18.96,"body":"of."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":19.2,"endTime":24.36,"body":"I'm Rachel, and today we're including a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":19.2,"endTime":24.36,"body":"special edition podcast episode originally"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":24.36,"endTime":28.08,"body":"recorded with Sam Cameron for the Truant Penn"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":24.36,"endTime":28.08,"body":"substack."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":28.56,"endTime":30.64,"body":"Sam is a book coach, an author,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":30.96,"endTime":33.44,"body":"and one of my one on one coaching clients."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":34.16,"endTime":38.88,"body":"And in this episode, we discuss what it's like"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":34.16,"endTime":38.88,"body":"to go through one on one book coaching."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":39.04,"endTime":42.72,"body":"Sam's process, writing, revising, querying,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":39.04,"endTime":42.72,"body":"and getting an agent,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":43.04,"endTime":47.84,"body":"plus what she's learned as both a coach and a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":43.04,"endTime":47.84,"body":"client over the last year and a half."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":48.16,"endTime":51.44,"body":"I had so much fun chatting about all the work"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":48.16,"endTime":51.44,"body":"that we did together."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":52.56,"endTime":56.48,"body":"Sam has been an incredible client and become a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":52.56,"endTime":56.48,"body":"really close friend of mine."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":56.88,"endTime":61.4,"body":"So after you're done listening, make sure to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":56.88,"endTime":61.4,"body":"go check out her incredible substack, Truant"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":61.4,"endTime":65.12,"body":"Penn, where she gives actionable advice for"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":61.4,"endTime":65.12,"body":"stock writers."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":65.28,"endTime":66.72,"body":"I'll put the link in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":66.88,"endTime":67.44,"body":"Enjoy."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":67.6,"endTime":69.04,"body":"Welcome to Truant Penn."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":69.04,"endTime":72.28,"body":"This is a substack for stuck writers giving"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":72.28,"endTime":73.48,"body":"you actionable advice."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":73.48,"endTime":75.28,"body":"I am Sam Cameron, an author,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":75.68,"endTime":77.52,"body":"developmental editor, and book coach."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":78.19,"endTime":83.51,"body":"And recently I was at a writing conference"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":78.19,"endTime":83.51,"body":"where I was talking to writers about the fact"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":83.51,"endTime":84.51,"body":"that I was a book coach."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":84.99,"endTime":88.83,"body":"And I encounter a lot of writers who didn't"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":84.99,"endTime":88.83,"body":"really know what that was."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":89.23,"endTime":93.47,"body":"And I understand that cause I didn't know what"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":89.23,"endTime":93.47,"body":"that was before I started doing it."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":94.27,"endTime":100.63,"body":"So I invited my book coach, the wonderful"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":94.27,"endTime":100.63,"body":"Rachel May, to come to hear to talk about what"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":100.63,"endTime":104.27,"body":"book coaches do and specifically how Rachel"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":100.63,"endTime":104.27,"body":"and I have worked together."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":104.75,"endTime":105.71,"body":"So welcome, Rachel."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":106.17,"endTime":106.57,"body":"Yay."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":106.65,"endTime":108.57,"body":"Thank you, Sam. I'm really excited."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":108.65,"endTime":109.09,"body":"This is."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":109.09,"endTime":113.09,"body":"Yeah, I'm really excited to have"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":109.09,"endTime":113.09,"body":"you here and to talk about what book coaches"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":113.09,"endTime":117.13,"body":"do and how book coaches are really, really"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":113.09,"endTime":117.13,"body":"helpful for writers."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":117.77,"endTime":122.169,"body":"So to start out with, why don't you talk a"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":117.77,"endTime":122.169,"body":"little bit about what you specifically do as a"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":122.169,"endTime":124.89,"body":"book coach and how you got into coaching."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":125.13,"endTime":127.37,"body":"Yeah, let me start with how I got into"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":125.13,"endTime":127.37,"body":"coaching."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":128.49,"endTime":133.65,"body":"So I own Golden May, which is our coaching"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":128.49,"endTime":133.65,"body":"business, and my name's Rachel May."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":133.65,"endTime":135.93,"body":"I have a business partner named Emily golden,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":136.8,"endTime":138.56,"body":"and that's how you get Golden May."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":138.72,"endTime":143.36,"body":"But we met on Twitter in like 2018 and became"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":143.36,"endTime":144.16,"body":"critique partners."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":144.72,"endTime":146.56,"body":"We were both searching for feedback."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":146.96,"endTime":150.32,"body":"So we met up, we became really good friends,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":146.96,"endTime":150.32,"body":"we became really great critique partners."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":150.56,"endTime":154.56,"body":"And through that process, we dove into"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":150.56,"endTime":154.56,"body":"learning, like, as much craft as we possibly"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":154.56,"endTime":154.88,"body":"could."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":155.76,"endTime":160.56,"body":"And I have an English literature degree and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":155.76,"endTime":160.56,"body":"knew, like, nothing about writing,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":161.04,"endTime":162.51,"body":"writing books."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":163.07,"endTime":167.59,"body":"So that was really the first time that I had"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":163.07,"endTime":167.59,"body":"been like, let me study how to write a book."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":167.59,"endTime":168.43,"body":"Because it's,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":168.75,"endTime":169.71,"body":"it's different."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":169.87,"endTime":171.83,"body":"It's not the same as, like, how to write a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":171.83,"endTime":172.75,"body":"paper on,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":173.47,"endTime":176.99,"body":"you know, the themes of Cinderella, which is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":173.47,"endTime":176.99,"body":"like what I wrote about in college."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":177.23,"endTime":184.31,"body":"So we studied a lot about craft, and through"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":177.23,"endTime":184.31,"body":"that process, we both really loved learning"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":184.31,"endTime":186.27,"body":"and really loved learning together."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":186.91,"endTime":190.06,"body":"And we were like, why don't we start a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":186.91,"endTime":190.06,"body":"business?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":190.06,"endTime":190.38,"body":"What."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":190.38,"endTime":191.26,"body":"What if we did this?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":191.26,"endTime":192.54,"body":"You know, that was kind of the question."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":192.54,"endTime":194.74,"body":"Like, what if we actually made this real?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":194.74,"endTime":198.06,"body":"What if we taught other people the way that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":194.74,"endTime":198.06,"body":"we've just been learning?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":199.5,"endTime":200.98,"body":"So we did."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":200.98,"endTime":203.1,"body":"We kind of like dared each other into it and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":203.1,"endTime":206.06,"body":"then went through a whole bunch of learning"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":203.1,"endTime":206.06,"body":"about, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":206.62,"endTime":208.82,"body":"do we want to be an editor?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":206.62,"endTime":208.82,"body":"Do we want to be a book coach?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":208.82,"endTime":212.26,"body":"Do we want to do both?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":208.82,"endTime":212.26,"body":"And, and we did settle on book coaching"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":212.26,"endTime":217.94,"body":"because it felt so personable and it felt so,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":212.26,"endTime":217.94,"body":"so much more aligned to like actually teaching"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":217.94,"endTime":223.18,"body":"someone how to write a better book versus"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":217.94,"endTime":223.18,"body":"giving them like a list of things to change"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":223.34,"endTime":224.14,"body":"about their book,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":224.22,"endTime":225.3,"body":"which has its uses."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":225.3,"endTime":226.1,"body":"I mean, there's, there's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":226.1,"endTime":226.9,"body":"We still do editing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":226.9,"endTime":228.34,"body":"There's nothing wrong with editing, but like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":228.34,"endTime":231.58,"body":"being a book coach just is a really special"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":228.34,"endTime":231.58,"body":"relationship."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":231.9,"endTime":237.74,"body":"And it really stood out to us for the way that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":231.9,"endTime":237.74,"body":"we wanted to build relationships and teach"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":237.74,"endTime":239.66,"body":"people and like, go on journeys together."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":240.54,"endTime":246.35,"body":"So we learned how to be book coaches, we took"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":240.54,"endTime":246.35,"body":"trainings, we started a business."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":247.55,"endTime":251.19,"body":"And as far as how we do it, so we've been book"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":247.55,"endTime":251.19,"body":"coach."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":251.19,"endTime":254.35,"body":"I was in 2019, that we actually created the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":251.19,"endTime":254.35,"body":"business."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":254.67,"endTime":256.51,"body":"So it's been like almost six years now."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":257.39,"endTime":260.03,"body":"And we meet with writers one on one."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":260.99,"endTime":263.79,"body":"Emily has one on one clients and I have one on"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":260.99,"endTime":263.79,"body":"one clients."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":264.27,"endTime":266.03,"body":"And we meet once a week."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":266.35,"endTime":269.82,"body":"We have an hour long phone call, video call,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":270.46,"endTime":275.9,"body":"and we're discussing our books, we're"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":270.46,"endTime":275.9,"body":"discussing our clients books, their, their"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":276.54,"endTime":277.34,"body":"assignments."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":277.34,"endTime":279.74,"body":"And I say that with like air quotes, so I'm"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":279.74,"endTime":280.42,"body":"sure we'll talk about."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":280.42,"endTime":281.78,"body":"But like the assignments that we've been"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":281.78,"endTime":285.5,"body":"working on, we've given feedback, so we're"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":281.78,"endTime":285.5,"body":"discussing that feedback."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":286.3,"endTime":288.7,"body":"And our, our programs last about six months."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":289.1,"endTime":289.74,"body":"That's our."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":290.46,"endTime":295.79,"body":"After doing it for a couple years, we decided"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":290.46,"endTime":295.79,"body":"to really accomplish what we wanted to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":295.79,"endTime":297.03,"body":"accomplish within a program."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":297.51,"endTime":298.71,"body":"Six months was a good,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":299.03,"endTime":304.47,"body":"a good range to start, and then our clients"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":299.03,"endTime":304.47,"body":"can renew for longer than that to kind of go"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":304.47,"endTime":305.11,"body":"however they want."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":305.11,"endTime":306.55,"body":"But within that six month program,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":306.95,"endTime":310.55,"body":"we're working on story fundamentals, character"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":306.95,"endTime":310.55,"body":"development,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":312.15,"endTime":316.23,"body":"high level plotting, and then getting into"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":312.15,"endTime":316.23,"body":"like, writing techniques."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":316.47,"endTime":318.95,"body":"And it's a lot to accomplish in six months,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":319.35,"endTime":326.01,"body":"but by the end, you know so much more about"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":319.35,"endTime":326.01,"body":"craft and Process and mindset, and hopefully"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":326.01,"endTime":330.37,"body":"feeling a lot more steady and firm on your"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":326.01,"endTime":330.37,"body":"feet by the time you're done."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":330.37,"endTime":332.21,"body":"Because that's really the goal of book"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":330.37,"endTime":332.21,"body":"coaching is."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":332.21,"endTime":333.25,"body":"Is being able to."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":334.61,"endTime":337.89,"body":"I like to think of it as holding hands, but"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":334.61,"endTime":337.89,"body":"not in, like a."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":338.93,"endTime":343.01,"body":"In like, a derogatory way where I'm, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":338.93,"endTime":343.01,"body":"holding your hand through this, but more like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":343.17,"endTime":344.21,"body":"hey, we're besties."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":344.21,"endTime":345.01,"body":"Let's hold hands."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":345.01,"endTime":346.13,"body":"You know, like that."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":346.45,"endTime":347.53,"body":"Yeah. So I actually."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":347.53,"endTime":349.41,"body":"I have something on my website where I'm"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":349.72,"endTime":354.4,"body":"explain book coaching as being a little bit"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":349.72,"endTime":354.4,"body":"like teaching you to fish as opposed to giving"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":354.4,"endTime":355.08,"body":"you fish."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":355.16,"endTime":356.12,"body":"Yeah, for sure."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":356.36,"endTime":360.32,"body":"You know, the idea is about"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":356.36,"endTime":360.32,"body":"teaching the process and the mindset tools so"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":360.32,"endTime":362.76,"body":"that when I'm not working with a writer"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":360.32,"endTime":362.76,"body":"anymore,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":363.4,"endTime":364.6,"body":"that they can still, like,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":365.0,"endTime":365.72,"body":"go forth."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":366.6,"endTime":370.84,"body":"The other way I describe it to people is I"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":366.6,"endTime":370.84,"body":"actually think book coaching is much more like"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":370.84,"endTime":374.04,"body":"what people want the relationship with their"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":370.84,"endTime":374.04,"body":"editor to be."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":374.12,"endTime":374.68,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":374.76,"endTime":375.84,"body":"When they have, you know."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":375.84,"endTime":377.36,"body":"Cause that's the movie version of an editor."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":377.36,"endTime":382.94,"body":"Like, that's the relationship between Max"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":377.36,"endTime":382.94,"body":"Perkins and F. Scott Fitzgerald."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":382.94,"endTime":387.58,"body":"Like, that's the Hollywood version of what"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":382.94,"endTime":387.58,"body":"editors do is there's someone who guides you"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":387.58,"endTime":390.14,"body":"and helps you develop and stuff like that."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":390.14,"endTime":391.54,"body":"And mostly,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":392.42,"endTime":396.38,"body":"lots of writers have great relationships with"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":392.42,"endTime":396.38,"body":"their traditional editors at a publishing"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":396.38,"endTime":397.98,"body":"house, but they're very busy."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":397.98,"endTime":401.3,"body":"They don't have the time to do that level of"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":402.02,"endTime":403.54,"body":"development, for the most part."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":404.1,"endTime":408.14,"body":"And so I feel like that's honestly where"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":404.1,"endTime":408.14,"body":"coaches step in, is that a lot of writers need"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":408.14,"endTime":412.14,"body":"that level of support and development as part"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":408.14,"endTime":412.14,"body":"of how."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":412.22,"endTime":413.02,"body":"How you grow."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":413.98,"endTime":415.66,"body":"Not just writers, like, any, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":416.06,"endTime":416.5,"body":"anyone."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":416.5,"endTime":417.82,"body":"If you're a singer, you have a vocal coach."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":417.82,"endTime":419.34,"body":"If you're an actor, you have an acting coach."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":420.94,"endTime":421.62,"body":"And so it's the."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":421.62,"endTime":422.62,"body":"It's the same thing for."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":422.86,"endTime":423.74,"body":"For writers."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":424.14,"endTime":424.62,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":425.499,"endTime":426.22,"body":"I mean, it's just."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":426.22,"endTime":427.94,"body":"It's just like, if you're gonna go work out at"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":427.94,"endTime":428.38,"body":"a gym,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":428.78,"endTime":430.18,"body":"you have a personal trainer."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":430.18,"endTime":430.62,"body":"You know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":431.26,"endTime":431.78,"body":"it is."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":431.78,"endTime":432.3,"body":"I think."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":432.46,"endTime":434.74,"body":"I think people look at books and they're."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":434.74,"endTime":436.34,"body":"And, like, the creative world being like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":436.34,"endTime":437.62,"body":"well, you don't need a coach to do that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":437.62,"endTime":439.1,"body":"You can just, like, muddy through it."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":439.1,"endTime":439.46,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":439.46,"endTime":440.3,"body":"And I guess you."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":441.56,"endTime":442.44,"body":"Yeah, you totally could."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":442.44,"endTime":443.64,"body":"But I will say it is."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":444.12,"endTime":447.0,"body":"Like Rachel said, book coaching is a very"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":444.12,"endTime":447.0,"body":"special relationship."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":447.0,"endTime":448.2,"body":"And it absolutely is."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":448.2,"endTime":451.16,"body":"And I say this both as a book coach who works"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":451.16,"endTime":453.72,"body":"with writers and also as a writer who has been"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":451.16,"endTime":453.72,"body":"coached."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":454.04,"endTime":460.08,"body":"So I'll talk a little bit about why I decided"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":454.04,"endTime":460.08,"body":"to seek out a book coach for myself and why"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":460.08,"endTime":463.8,"body":"specifically I ended up working with Rachel"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":460.08,"endTime":463.8,"body":"and wanted to work with Rachel,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":464.2,"endTime":467.28,"body":"and then we can talk a little bit about what"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":464.2,"endTime":467.28,"body":"she and I have done together and what I've"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":467.28,"endTime":468.76,"body":"gotten out of that process."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":470.28,"endTime":477.32,"body":"So I actually found Rachel and Emily because I"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":470.28,"endTime":477.32,"body":"became a book coach and I have a teaching"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":477.32,"endTime":477.88,"body":"background."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":478.12,"endTime":481.16,"body":"So I was looking as a writer for something I"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":481.16,"endTime":485.0,"body":"could do to make more stable money than"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":481.16,"endTime":485.0,"body":"writing,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":486.04,"endTime":487.88,"body":"especially while I was still finishing books."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":488.28,"endTime":493.48,"body":"And so I started looking at editing because I"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":488.28,"endTime":493.48,"body":"had realized from working with my critique"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":493.48,"endTime":497.36,"body":"partners that I was really good at"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":493.48,"endTime":497.36,"body":"developmental editing and that I liked it."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":497.68,"endTime":502.36,"body":"And then I came across book coaching, and I"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":497.68,"endTime":502.36,"body":"was like, as a teacher, I'd be really good at"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":502.36,"endTime":502.64,"body":"this."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":504.48,"endTime":508.84,"body":"And so when I started my own coaching"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":504.48,"endTime":508.84,"body":"business, I was looking around at what other"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":508.84,"endTime":513.84,"body":"coaches were doing to sort of see, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":508.84,"endTime":513.84,"body":"what types of packages do people offer, what"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":513.84,"endTime":516.96,"body":"are they putting in their newsletters, like,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":513.84,"endTime":516.96,"body":"looking for ideas for how to build my"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":516.96,"endTime":517.28,"body":"business."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":518.96,"endTime":523.44,"body":"And someone I was following was like, in a"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":518.96,"endTime":523.44,"body":"grab bag email list giveaway with something"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":523.44,"endTime":525.12,"body":"that you and Emily were also in."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":525.97,"endTime":530.37,"body":"And I signed up for your magic of character"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":525.97,"endTime":530.37,"body":"arcs."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":531.81,"endTime":532.73,"body":"Like the email course."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":532.73,"endTime":534.21,"body":"Yeah, yeah, the email course."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":535.41,"endTime":541.57,"body":"And the first email I was in, I was hooked on"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":535.41,"endTime":541.57,"body":"Emily and Rachel's content."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":541.57,"endTime":542.85,"body":"They are excellent teachers."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":543.57,"endTime":547.17,"body":"Even just the teaching that you get from them,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":543.57,"endTime":547.17,"body":"like what they're writing in their newsletter"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":548.05,"endTime":548.65,"body":"is really good."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":548.65,"endTime":550.45,"body":"And you hadn't even started your podcast yet"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":550.45,"endTime":551.09,"body":"at that point,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":551.89,"endTime":556.02,"body":"which is like, I think Spotify was my most"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":551.89,"endTime":556.02,"body":"listened to podcast."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":556.26,"endTime":556.94,"body":"Oh, my God."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":556.94,"endTime":557.86,"body":"With story magic."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":558.58,"endTime":559.14,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":559.86,"endTime":560.26,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":561.22,"endTime":565.46,"body":"So anyway, I knew basically right away after"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":561.22,"endTime":565.46,"body":"seeing their content that if."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":565.46,"endTime":569.78,"body":"If I ever was at a place where I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":565.46,"endTime":569.78,"body":"work with a book coach, I was like, these are"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":569.78,"endTime":570.1,"body":"the people."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":570.1,"endTime":570.66,"body":"Like, this is."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":570.66,"endTime":571.22,"body":"This is it."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":573.22,"endTime":579.1,"body":"So it took a couple of years, actually, I"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":573.22,"endTime":579.1,"body":"think between when I first had that idea and"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":579.1,"endTime":581.69,"body":"when I was actually ready to work with a"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":579.1,"endTime":581.69,"body":"coach."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":582.41,"endTime":587.61,"body":"And another I think, common misconception is"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":582.41,"endTime":587.61,"body":"that once people learn about book coaching,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":587.61,"endTime":589.85,"body":"they're like, oh, it's for newbies, it's for"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":587.61,"endTime":589.85,"body":"beginners."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":590.33,"endTime":591.77,"body":"And that is absolutely not true."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":592.49,"endTime":596.17,"body":"You can benefit from book coaching at any"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":592.49,"endTime":596.17,"body":"stage in your career."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":597.21,"endTime":604.33,"body":"So when I. So I signed up to join Emily and"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":597.21,"endTime":604.33,"body":"Rachel's writing community, Tenacious Writing,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":604.89,"endTime":609.46,"body":"in November of 2024."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":609.78,"endTime":610.58,"body":"Is that right?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":610.9,"endTime":613.46,"body":"That 2023?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":610.9,"endTime":613.46,"body":"Because we started."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":613.7,"endTime":615.38,"body":"We started February 2024."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":615.38,"endTime":616.26,"body":"Yeah, that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":616.58,"endTime":620.06,"body":"Do you want to tell everyone what tenacious"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":616.58,"endTime":620.06,"body":"writing is all about before I continue the"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":620.06,"endTime":620.34,"body":"story?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":620.58,"endTime":621.98,"body":"Yeah. So thank you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":621.98,"endTime":624.9,"body":"Tenacious Writing is our, like, one stop shop"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":624.9,"endTime":626.02,"body":"writing program."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":626.34,"endTime":632.02,"body":"And in it, we have tons and tons of craft"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":626.34,"endTime":632.02,"body":"resources,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":632.34,"endTime":636.42,"body":"like 40 plus, 50 plus hours worth of like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":632.34,"endTime":636.42,"body":"let's learn craft."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":637.35,"endTime":643.11,"body":"But it's not just craft, because craft is just"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":637.35,"endTime":643.11,"body":"a sliver of the writing process and journey."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":643.19,"endTime":646.07,"body":"So we also focus really heavily on, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":643.19,"endTime":646.07,"body":"writing process."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":646.23,"endTime":647.27,"body":"How do you write?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":647.27,"endTime":649.03,"body":"When do you write?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":647.27,"endTime":649.03,"body":"What feels good for you?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":649.03,"endTime":651.91,"body":"How do you be consistent?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":649.03,"endTime":651.91,"body":"And also writing mindset?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":652.15,"endTime":656.99,"body":"And that, that was probably the most near and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":652.15,"endTime":656.99,"body":"dear to my heart because I, I don't think you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":656.99,"endTime":663.35,"body":"can do anything or like, I don't think you can"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":656.99,"endTime":663.35,"body":"feel good about doing anything if your mindset"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":663.66,"endTime":665.74,"body":"is your biggest roadblock."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":666.54,"endTime":671.3,"body":"So we spend a lot of time working through"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":666.54,"endTime":671.3,"body":"perfectionism and imposter syndrome and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":671.3,"endTime":673.58,"body":"comparison and procrastination."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":673.58,"endTime":675.54,"body":"So, like, those pieces of the writing process"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":675.54,"endTime":677.9,"body":"that really interrupt us, even though,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":678.22,"endTime":681.26,"body":"like, you could put all your effort into"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":678.22,"endTime":681.26,"body":"studying craft, but it doesn't mean anything"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":681.26,"endTime":683.9,"body":"if every time you sit down at your computer,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":684.38,"endTime":685.98,"body":"you're, like, terrified of writing."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":686.22,"endTime":688.5,"body":"Yeah. And honestly, like, that"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":686.22,"endTime":688.5,"body":"was so true for me."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":688.5,"endTime":691.18,"body":"And I think that was a big part of why I"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":688.5,"endTime":691.18,"body":"found,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":691.6,"endTime":694.44,"body":"like, I mean, there was, there were craft"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":691.6,"endTime":694.44,"body":"stuff that I learned from, from you and Emily,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":694.44,"endTime":697.12,"body":"like, scene structure was totally mind blowing"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":694.44,"endTime":697.12,"body":"for me."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":697.12,"endTime":697.76,"body":"Love that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":698.48,"endTime":699.04,"body":"Me too."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":699.2,"endTime":702.12,"body":"And, you know, so there, there's"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":699.2,"endTime":702.12,"body":"craft stuff that I definitely learned from you"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":702.12,"endTime":702.28,"body":"all."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":702.28,"endTime":705.0,"body":"But I think the mindset piece for me was what"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":705.0,"endTime":706.8,"body":"was really revolutionary because,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":707.68,"endTime":710.0,"body":"you know, I did know a lot of craft."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":710.0,"endTime":711.64,"body":"And by the time I decided to start working"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":711.64,"endTime":713.08,"body":"with you, I was working on my fifth book."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":713.08,"endTime":714.48,"body":"Like, the fifth book I had written."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":714.56,"endTime":715.04,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":715.52,"endTime":718.64,"body":"So this goes back to what I was"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":715.52,"endTime":718.64,"body":"saying before about how it's,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":719.18,"endTime":722.58,"body":"you know, you can benefit from this at any"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":719.18,"endTime":722.58,"body":"stage of your writing career."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":722.58,"endTime":727.06,"body":"So it's not just like, oh, I've, you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":722.58,"endTime":727.06,"body":"starting and I've never done it before."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":727.06,"endTime":728.1,"body":"I better hire a coach."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":728.1,"endTime":728.94,"body":"I mean, that's great,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":729.42,"endTime":734.02,"body":"but it's also like, really, really valuable"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":729.42,"endTime":734.02,"body":"even if you have a lot of experience and know"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":734.02,"endTime":739.3,"body":"a lot, because basically it's a recognition"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":734.02,"endTime":739.3,"body":"that you're at a place in your process or in"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":739.3,"endTime":745.38,"body":"your career where you could just keep spinning"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":739.3,"endTime":745.38,"body":"your wheels by yourself, but actually you'd"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":745.38,"endTime":748.1,"body":"benefit a lot from some outside help."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":748.18,"endTime":751.3,"body":"So when I joined Tenacious Writing,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":751.78,"endTime":759.3,"body":"I had by that point realized that I had had a"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":751.78,"endTime":759.3,"body":"lot of creative burnout and had spent several"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":759.3,"endTime":766.06,"body":"months kind of finding my way out of it with"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":759.3,"endTime":766.06,"body":"the help of many of the podcast story magic"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":766.06,"endTime":769.54,"body":"podcast episodes and then also joining the"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":766.06,"endTime":769.54,"body":"community."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":770.51,"endTime":773.35,"body":"And after I'd been in the community for a"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":770.51,"endTime":773.35,"body":"couple months, I think it was Emily actually"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":773.35,"endTime":776.19,"body":"put out that she had an opening for one on one"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":773.35,"endTime":776.19,"body":"Coaching."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":776.91,"endTime":780.27,"body":"And I was like, is this my sign from the"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":776.91,"endTime":780.27,"body":"universe?"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":780.27,"endTime":781.47,"body":"Because, like, I have the money."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":781.63,"endTime":782.79,"body":"I want to do it."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":782.79,"endTime":783.51,"body":"Like, I'm gonna."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":783.51,"endTime":784.43,"body":"I'm gonna sign up."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":784.51,"endTime":784.99,"body":"And I."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":784.99,"endTime":787.71,"body":"It was interesting because I'm."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":787.79,"endTime":791.23,"body":"I'm more of a pantser and Rachel's a pantser"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":791.63,"endTime":792.75,"body":"and Emily is not."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":792.75,"endTime":793.11,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":793.11,"endTime":793.51,"body":"And I was."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":793.51,"endTime":795.11,"body":"So I kind of went into this meeting being"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":795.11,"endTime":798.43,"body":"like, well, maybe it would be good to work"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":795.11,"endTime":798.43,"body":"with Emily because she's a very different"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":798.43,"endTime":799.55,"body":"process than I do."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":799.55,"endTime":801.31,"body":"And, like, maybe I could learn a lot from her."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":802.42,"endTime":804.74,"body":"And then Emily and Rachel are both in this"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":802.42,"endTime":804.74,"body":"meeting,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":805.14,"endTime":805.58,"body":"you know."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":805.58,"endTime":806.18,"body":"Hey, like, what."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":806.18,"endTime":808.86,"body":"What is it you wanted to talk about?"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":806.18,"endTime":808.86,"body":"I was like, well, I wanted to see if Emily's,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":808.86,"endTime":810.42,"body":"you know, spot was still open."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":811.3,"endTime":813.1,"body":"Because I'm thinking about one on one"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":811.3,"endTime":813.1,"body":"coaching."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":813.1,"endTime":814.82,"body":"And Emily's like, well, the spot is closed."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":814.82,"endTime":816.38,"body":"And Rachel jumped in and was like, but I want"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":816.38,"endTime":817.06,"body":"to work with you,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":817.459,"endTime":818.9,"body":"because you knew what I was working on,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":819.46,"endTime":822.98,"body":"which was this queer Twelfth night retelling"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":819.46,"endTime":822.98,"body":"with F1."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":824.82,"endTime":826.5,"body":"And so we kind of went from there."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":826.66,"endTime":827.06,"body":"And,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":827.44,"endTime":830.88,"body":"um, I'm curious from your end as a book coach"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":827.44,"endTime":830.88,"body":"how, like, what."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":832.0,"endTime":835.84,"body":"What is the process, like, of deciding when"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":832.0,"endTime":835.84,"body":"someone says they want to work with you"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":836.48,"endTime":838.16,"body":"whether or not you want to work with them?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":838.48,"endTime":839.68,"body":"Yeah. Um,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":840.08,"endTime":845.84,"body":"okay, well, I. This is such a great question,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":840.08,"endTime":845.84,"body":"and you're a great example, because I was"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":845.84,"endTime":846.8,"body":"thinking about this this morning,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":847.36,"endTime":852.08,"body":"um, when you came to an open coaching call in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":847.36,"endTime":852.08,"body":"Tenacious Writing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":852.56,"endTime":853.28,"body":"And you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":853.84,"endTime":855.92,"body":"I think you wanted to talk about Viola's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":853.84,"endTime":855.92,"body":"goals,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":856.39,"endTime":858.07,"body":"because you were like, I don't know what?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":856.39,"endTime":858.07,"body":"Do you remember this?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":858.07,"endTime":858.55,"body":"You like?"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":858.63,"endTime":859.31,"body":"Yeah, I think so."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":859.31,"endTime":859.51,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":859.51,"endTime":859.95,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":859.95,"endTime":864.11,"body":"You came to talk about Viola's goals"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":859.95,"endTime":864.11,"body":"and you, like, told me a little bit about the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":864.11,"endTime":867.91,"body":"story, and I just like, felt it like, I like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":864.11,"endTime":867.91,"body":"love at first sight."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":867.91,"endTime":871.91,"body":"It felt like a lightning bolt of, like, that's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":867.91,"endTime":871.91,"body":"a story that, that I want to read."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":872.95,"endTime":875.71,"body":"And I also could tell from you that, like, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":872.95,"endTime":875.71,"body":"were."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":875.71,"endTime":880.35,"body":"What, you wanted to puzzle it out, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":875.71,"endTime":880.35,"body":"like, you had the knowledge and you were just"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":880.35,"endTime":881.83,"body":"trying to get things in the right space."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":881.99,"endTime":884.55,"body":"And all you really needed was like a sounding"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":881.99,"endTime":884.55,"body":"board,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":885.07,"endTime":885.75,"body":"because it wasn't."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":885.75,"endTime":886.67,"body":"This is how I feel."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":886.67,"endTime":889.87,"body":"Like, this is how I feel like a hundred"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":886.67,"endTime":889.87,"body":"percent of the time on our phone calls is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":889.87,"endTime":895.43,"body":"like, you just need a sounding board and I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":889.87,"endTime":895.43,"body":"just can provide that call and response, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":895.43,"endTime":895.71,"body":"know?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":896.35,"endTime":900.35,"body":"But you came just needing to talk about it,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":896.35,"endTime":900.35,"body":"and we didn't have enough time."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":900.35,"endTime":904.51,"body":"Like, I remember I could have talked to you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":900.35,"endTime":904.51,"body":"for like an hour or two hours about those"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":904.51,"endTime":905.87,"body":"goals, and I wanted to,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":906.19,"endTime":907.59,"body":"but we were with other writers."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":907.59,"endTime":910.75,"body":"And so I think I. Either we like, stopped"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":910.75,"endTime":914.67,"body":"talking or it was the end of the call or"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":910.75,"endTime":914.67,"body":"whatever, but I got off that call being like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":914.83,"endTime":916.11,"body":"I want to work on that story."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":917.87,"endTime":922.79,"body":"Meanwhile, Emily was on maternity leave, and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":917.87,"endTime":922.79,"body":"so she had come back, like, wanting to take on"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":922.79,"endTime":925.23,"body":"more clients or trying to figure out, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":922.79,"endTime":925.23,"body":"how many clients did you want?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":925.95,"endTime":928.67,"body":"And we got your request."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":928.99,"endTime":934.23,"body":"And I think I, like, instantly texted her and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":928.99,"endTime":934.23,"body":"was like, I will open up a spot to take Sam."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":934.23,"endTime":935.23,"body":"Like, I want that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":936.43,"endTime":937.35,"body":"Give it to me."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":937.35,"endTime":939.19,"body":"And she was like, okay, that's good, because"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":939.19,"endTime":940.2,"body":"my spot's build."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":940.76,"endTime":942.6,"body":"So then when we spoke,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":944.12,"endTime":950.68,"body":"it felt like a fit because some of it's energy"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":944.12,"endTime":950.68,"body":"wise, which is a little willy nilly, but I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":950.68,"endTime":951.48,"body":"mean, like, I felt like we."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":951.48,"endTime":952.04,"body":"We had a lot."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":952.04,"endTime":954.92,"body":"We had already spoken, we had already aligned"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":952.04,"endTime":954.92,"body":"the."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":955.16,"endTime":957.32,"body":"Your idea in and of itself."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":957.32,"endTime":958.44,"body":"I just was like, yes,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":959.16,"endTime":961.88,"body":"10 out of 10, no questions, no notes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":961.96,"endTime":962.76,"body":"Give it to me."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":962.76,"endTime":963.64,"body":"I want to work on it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":963.64,"endTime":965.73,"body":"So I think, like, having a resonance with."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":965.88,"endTime":968.4,"body":"With the idea is really important because you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":965.88,"endTime":968.4,"body":"need."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":968.4,"endTime":970.56,"body":"You need to be able to believe in your"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":968.4,"endTime":970.56,"body":"client's ideas."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":970.56,"endTime":975.56,"body":"You need to be able to, like, see the vision"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":970.56,"endTime":975.56,"body":"and, like, understand this is where it's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":975.56,"endTime":976.04,"body":"headed."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":976.52,"endTime":978.04,"body":"And we learned a lot together."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":978.04,"endTime":979.8,"body":"But I do feel like from the first time that we"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":979.8,"endTime":980.52,"body":"spoke, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":980.92,"endTime":984.92,"body":"I could get a sense of your vision, and it"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":980.92,"endTime":984.92,"body":"really resonated with me and I care a lot"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":984.92,"endTime":985.44,"body":"about it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":985.44,"endTime":986.52,"body":"So I was like, that's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":987.0,"endTime":987.88,"body":"That's for me."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":987.88,"endTime":988.84,"body":"Give me that one."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":989.4,"endTime":990.04,"body":"Um,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":990.6,"endTime":991.28,"body":"so when."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":991.28,"endTime":993.08,"body":"When her and I are working together, I know"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":993.08,"endTime":996.48,"body":"this isn't exactly what you asked, but we're"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":993.08,"endTime":996.48,"body":"trying to find that because since there are"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":996.48,"endTime":997.08,"body":"two of us,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":997.91,"endTime":1001.91,"body":"we really do have to decide, like, who's gonna"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":997.91,"endTime":1001.91,"body":"be a better working relationship or who's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1001.91,"endTime":1003.83,"body":"gonna be a better fit between the two of us."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1005.11,"endTime":1006.71,"body":"And her spot, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1007.35,"endTime":1009.67,"body":"not even if her spot was open,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1009.99,"endTime":1016.19,"body":"I think I still would've fought to work with"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1009.99,"endTime":1016.19,"body":"you because I just felt like we had a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1016.19,"endTime":1020.87,"body":"connection and we knew and it didn't take long"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1016.19,"endTime":1020.87,"body":"to feel that way."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1020.87,"endTime":1023.91,"body":"And I was over the moon that you had even"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1020.87,"endTime":1023.91,"body":"reached out for coaching."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1023.91,"endTime":1024.63,"body":"I was like, yes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1024.63,"endTime":1025.51,"body":"I can't believe it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1025.51,"endTime":1030.56,"body":"I knew I really wanted her to do coaching, and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1025.51,"endTime":1030.56,"body":"so that was really exciting."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1030.96,"endTime":1035.4,"body":"Yeah. And that open coaching call"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1030.96,"endTime":1035.4,"body":"was also, for me, like, a really good moment"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1035.4,"endTime":1041.52,"body":"of seeing what the value of working with a"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1035.4,"endTime":1041.52,"body":"coach could be like, because you hit on a"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1041.52,"endTime":1045.16,"body":"couple of things that are what part of what"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1041.52,"endTime":1045.16,"body":"makes it so special and so helpful to work"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1045.16,"endTime":1045.68,"body":"with a coach."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1046.16,"endTime":1050.84,"body":"So one Is it is super clear that you believe"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1046.16,"endTime":1050.84,"body":"in my vision and understand my vision of the"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1050.84,"endTime":1051.12,"body":"book."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1051.2,"endTime":1051.76,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1053.05,"endTime":1054.73,"body":"Because anytime we're working together,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1056.89,"endTime":1058.01,"body":"like, there's never."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1058.65,"endTime":1064.05,"body":"It never feels like I'm having to explain to"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1058.65,"endTime":1064.05,"body":"you what I want to do."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1064.05,"endTime":1066.57,"body":"Like, I explain to you in the sense of, like,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1064.05,"endTime":1066.57,"body":"that's how I."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1067.21,"endTime":1070.09,"body":"How we figure out what I'm doing is I have to"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1067.21,"endTime":1070.09,"body":"talk about it,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1071.61,"endTime":1075.69,"body":"but it's never like, I have to convince you to"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1071.61,"endTime":1075.69,"body":"get there with me."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1075.69,"endTime":1077.21,"body":"It's like, yep, I'm there,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1077.61,"endTime":1079.53,"body":"I'm vibing with it, I understand it."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1080.06,"endTime":1081.46,"body":"Um, and it is."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1081.46,"endTime":1083.3,"body":"It makes such a huge difference when you're"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1083.3,"endTime":1089.66,"body":"getting feedback from somebody to know that"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1083.3,"endTime":1089.66,"body":"they understand what you're trying to do."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1090.3,"endTime":1093.18,"body":"And that all of the questions that Rachel asks"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1090.3,"endTime":1093.18,"body":"me,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1093.66,"endTime":1100.62,"body":"all of the just everything is in align with"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1093.66,"endTime":1100.62,"body":"making the book into this."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1100.62,"endTime":1102.7,"body":"This thing that I imagined it would be."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1103.1,"endTime":1105.1,"body":"Um, and then also just the sounding board"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1103.1,"endTime":1105.1,"body":"thing."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1105.1,"endTime":1105.3,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1105.3,"endTime":1107.1,"body":"Which was not even something that I realized"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1107.1,"endTime":1109.58,"body":"how much I needed that until I started working"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1107.1,"endTime":1109.58,"body":"with you."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1109.58,"endTime":1110.34,"body":"That it is true."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1110.34,"endTime":1118.43,"body":"Like, a lot of our call are I've got a plot"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1110.34,"endTime":1118.43,"body":"problem or a character problem that I don't"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1118.43,"endTime":1120.31,"body":"really know how to solve and,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1122.71,"endTime":1124.63,"body":"you know, or something doesn't feel right."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1124.71,"endTime":1127.03,"body":"And so you just ask me a bunch of questions"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1127.51,"endTime":1133.43,"body":"and then I just like, talk and we, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1127.51,"endTime":1133.43,"body":"you ask some more questions and then we"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1133.43,"endTime":1137.43,"body":"eventually get there and it's like it almost"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1133.43,"endTime":1137.43,"body":"all comes out of my brain."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1137.83,"endTime":1138.55,"body":"All of it does."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1138.55,"endTime":1138.87,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1138.87,"endTime":1139.67,"body":"But it's like,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1140.32,"endTime":1144.2,"body":"I wouldn't have gotten there without you"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1140.32,"endTime":1144.2,"body":"asking the questions and, like, making me say"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1144.2,"endTime":1145.12,"body":"the stuff out loud."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1147.04,"endTime":1153.48,"body":"And like, I know that I could have written"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1147.04,"endTime":1153.48,"body":"this book without the assistance of a coach,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1153.48,"endTime":1157.28,"body":"but it would have been way less fun and it"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1153.48,"endTime":1157.28,"body":"would have taken me a lot longer."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1157.28,"endTime":1158.0,"body":"A lot longer."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1158.8,"endTime":1160.64,"body":"You know, it would have been a"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1158.8,"endTime":1160.64,"body":"lot harder."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1162.24,"endTime":1163.84,"body":"And as Rachel said, she,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1164.16,"endTime":1167.44,"body":"you know, her sort of minimum term of her"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1164.16,"endTime":1167.44,"body":"program is six months."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1168.25,"endTime":1168.65,"body":"Um,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1169.37,"endTime":1172.85,"body":"and people can renew."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1172.85,"endTime":1175.61,"body":"So I've actually renewed twice to."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1175.61,"endTime":1177.29,"body":"To get through the process of this book."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1178.65,"endTime":1181.77,"body":"And the first time I was thinking about"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1178.65,"endTime":1181.77,"body":"renewing,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1183.05,"endTime":1185.93,"body":"I was talking to my wife about, like, okay, I"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1183.05,"endTime":1185.93,"body":"think I want to do this."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1185.93,"endTime":1190.13,"body":"And like, I didn't really need to have this"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1185.93,"endTime":1190.13,"body":"conversation with her because the money's"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1190.13,"endTime":1191.33,"body":"entirely coming out of my business."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1191.33,"endTime":1192.57,"body":"Like, I'm paying for it."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1192.65,"endTime":1194.73,"body":"It has no effect on our."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1194.73,"endTime":1196.33,"body":"Our home finances at all."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1197.03,"endTime":1201.11,"body":"Um, so I was like, gearing up to pitch to her,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1197.03,"endTime":1201.11,"body":"even though I really didn't need to, that I"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1201.11,"endTime":1202.15,"body":"wanted to continue coaching."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1202.15,"endTime":1203.63,"body":"And before I even got the words Out."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1203.63,"endTime":1204.55,"body":"She was like, yes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1204.71,"endTime":1205.35,"body":"Say it."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1205.43,"endTime":1207.23,"body":"I've never seen you so happy to"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1205.43,"endTime":1207.23,"body":"work on a book."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1207.23,"endTime":1208.79,"body":"Like, you are having a great time."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1209.35,"endTime":1210.95,"body":"Um, so it's."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1210.95,"endTime":1213.35,"body":"It's been, like, incredibly supportive."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1213.83,"endTime":1214.39,"body":"Um,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1214.71,"endTime":1218.27,"body":"so I was thinking we could get into a little"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1214.71,"endTime":1218.27,"body":"more specifics, like, without giving away your"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1218.27,"endTime":1220.95,"body":"whole program of what process looks like."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1221.19,"endTime":1221.67,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1221.99,"endTime":1224.71,"body":"And so I came to Rachel with."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1226.3,"endTime":1228.46,"body":"When we started In February of 2024,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1228.94,"endTime":1232.7,"body":"I had the idea, which was Queer F1, Twelfth"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1228.94,"endTime":1232.7,"body":"Night."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1232.86,"endTime":1238.26,"body":"And I'd written about a hundred pages of just"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1232.86,"endTime":1238.26,"body":"sort of random scenes, because that's the"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1238.26,"endTime":1241.18,"body":"first part of my process, is to just do that."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1242.86,"endTime":1247.66,"body":"And like Rachel said, I had gotten to a point"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1242.86,"endTime":1247.66,"body":"where I realized I needed more structure,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1247.66,"endTime":1252.15,"body":"which is why I was going into that open"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1247.66,"endTime":1252.15,"body":"coaching call to talk about character goals."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1254.63,"endTime":1256.23,"body":"And as of now,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1257.11,"endTime":1258.71,"body":"a year and change later,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1259.35,"endTime":1262.23,"body":"I have a literary agent, a complete draft."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1262.23,"endTime":1263.59,"body":"We're working on revisions."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1264.87,"endTime":1265.47,"body":"It gives me a lot."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1265.47,"endTime":1266.75,"body":"So that was, like, really big."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1266.75,"endTime":1270.79,"body":"Like, that's a really big thing that we did."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1272.31,"endTime":1274.19,"body":"So why don't we talk about how we got there"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1272.31,"endTime":1274.19,"body":"and, like, what."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1274.19,"endTime":1276.03,"body":"What we did for the past year and a half."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1276.03,"endTime":1276.79,"body":"I know, right?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1278.05,"endTime":1278.45,"body":"A lot."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1278.45,"endTime":1279.33,"body":"We did a lot."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1279.81,"endTime":1285.13,"body":"But I. That's, like, in the grand scheme of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1279.81,"endTime":1285.13,"body":"things, such a short time frame, like you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1285.13,"endTime":1287.25,"body":"said, you do it a lot faster, I think, with."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1287.89,"endTime":1288.57,"body":"With a coach."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1288.57,"endTime":1290.93,"body":"And I also think, like, you came into coaching"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1290.93,"endTime":1296.37,"body":"with exactly the right attitude, level of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1290.93,"endTime":1296.37,"body":"commitment, what."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1296.37,"endTime":1297.93,"body":"Whatever that ends up meaning to somebody."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1297.93,"endTime":1299.49,"body":"But, like, you were ready to do it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1300.21,"endTime":1301.89,"body":"And you were also ready to, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1302.61,"endTime":1304.13,"body":"work hard to figure it out."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1305.21,"endTime":1306.57,"body":"And you'd think most people would be."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1306.57,"endTime":1307.65,"body":"I think most people are."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1307.65,"endTime":1312.33,"body":"But with you, you just had such a persistence"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1307.65,"endTime":1312.33,"body":"and a tenacity of, like, every single week you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1312.33,"endTime":1317.49,"body":"showed up, every single week, you had stuff"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1312.33,"endTime":1317.49,"body":"for us to talk about and work through."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1317.49,"endTime":1320.25,"body":"And just, like, you did it, you know?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1317.49,"endTime":1320.25,"body":"Like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1320.81,"endTime":1323.33,"body":"I. I have some other clients who are a little"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1320.81,"endTime":1323.33,"body":"bit slower, and there's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1323.33,"endTime":1324.33,"body":"There's nothing wrong."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1324.49,"endTime":1326.25,"body":"There's absolutely nothing wrong with that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1326.25,"endTime":1331.37,"body":"But I think this kind of relationship, it"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1326.25,"endTime":1331.37,"body":"worked so well to have us because,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1332.56,"endTime":1335.04,"body":"like, you put in so much effort."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1335.04,"endTime":1337.84,"body":"And that makes my job, like, 10 times easier."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1338.0,"endTime":1338.36,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1338.36,"endTime":1338.72,"body":"Like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1339.04,"endTime":1341.6,"body":"to. To know that, oh, Sam's got pages."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1341.92,"endTime":1342.4,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1342.72,"endTime":1343.84,"body":"Let's get into them."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1344.4,"endTime":1345.28,"body":"I can't wait."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1345.68,"endTime":1347.999,"body":"Yeah. So back to your original question."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1349.44,"endTime":1351.76,"body":"We started with, like, all right, what."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1351.76,"endTime":1352.64,"body":"What's the message?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1352.64,"endTime":1355.96,"body":"You know, the first little chunk of our"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1352.64,"endTime":1355.96,"body":"program is just all about, like, what's this"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1355.96,"endTime":1357.2,"body":"book about?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1355.96,"endTime":1357.2,"body":"What's the vision?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1357.2,"endTime":1358.4,"body":"Who's your ideal reader?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1358.81,"endTime":1360.49,"body":"You know, who are we talking to why do we"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1358.81,"endTime":1360.49,"body":"care?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1361.21,"endTime":1365.61,"body":"And I think that's helpful for you as a. As"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1361.21,"endTime":1365.61,"body":"the author."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1366.01,"endTime":1369.29,"body":"Like, incredibly helpful for you to know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1366.01,"endTime":1369.29,"body":"like, what your vision is."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1369.45,"endTime":1375.57,"body":"But I also think that first month is so"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1369.45,"endTime":1375.57,"body":"important for me as a coach to get to know"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1375.57,"endTime":1378.81,"body":"you, to understand you, to, like, get a sense"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1375.57,"endTime":1378.81,"body":"of the vision."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1378.97,"endTime":1382.57,"body":"The vision always changes or, like, the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1378.97,"endTime":1382.57,"body":"details always change."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1383.45,"endTime":1388.1,"body":"But knowing, like, what you care about and why"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1383.45,"endTime":1388.1,"body":"you care about it,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1388.42,"endTime":1394.98,"body":"that's the stuff that, like, as a coach, helps"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1388.42,"endTime":1394.98,"body":"me guide you or ask you those questions and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1395.46,"endTime":1396.9,"body":"helps me provide that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1396.9,"endTime":1397.7,"body":"That sounding board."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1397.7,"endTime":1398.1,"body":"So we."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1398.1,"endTime":1398.74,"body":"We spend,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1399.06,"endTime":1401.62,"body":"you know, a little bit of time talking about"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1399.06,"endTime":1401.62,"body":"the story point,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1402.58,"endTime":1403.3,"body":"talking about,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1404.26,"endTime":1405.06,"body":"you know, who."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1405.14,"endTime":1406.22,"body":"Who do you want to read this?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1406.22,"endTime":1407.3,"body":"What's it going to be like?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1408.02,"endTime":1409.38,"body":"Then we go into characters."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1410.11,"endTime":1416.59,"body":"So we started to talk about each of your four"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1410.11,"endTime":1416.59,"body":"characters, your four point of view characters"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1416.99,"endTime":1420.83,"body":"and what their goals were, what their flaws"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1416.99,"endTime":1420.83,"body":"were,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1421.15,"endTime":1423.31,"body":"what was at stake if they didn't get them."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1423.95,"endTime":1426.43,"body":"Um, and then we talked a lot about backstory."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1426.67,"endTime":1427.23,"body":"So that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1427.39,"endTime":1430.35,"body":"That takes a chunk of time, especially four."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1430.67,"endTime":1431.47,"body":"Yeah, that did."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1431.47,"endTime":1432.75,"body":"That did take a lot of."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1432.75,"endTime":1433.47,"body":"A lot of time."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1433.55,"endTime":1434.23,"body":"So that was."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1434.23,"endTime":1441.63,"body":"If we started in February, and then I remember"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1434.23,"endTime":1441.63,"body":"that I started the draft in, like, June of"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1441.63,"endTime":1442.19,"body":"that time."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1442.67,"endTime":1445.31,"body":"So we spent basically between February and"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1442.67,"endTime":1445.31,"body":"June,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1446.35,"endTime":1447.67,"body":"mostly talking about characters."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1447.67,"endTime":1449.23,"body":"And then eventually we got to plot, too."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1449.55,"endTime":1451.15,"body":"But that was."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1452.51,"endTime":1454.67,"body":"Some of you might be like, how did it take"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1452.51,"endTime":1454.67,"body":"that long?"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1455.23,"endTime":1457.03,"body":"Why would it take that long?"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1455.23,"endTime":1457.03,"body":"And the reason is one."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1457.03,"endTime":1458.15,"body":"Rachel said I had four."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1458.15,"endTime":1459.95,"body":"Four characters, which is a lot."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1461.07,"endTime":1466.47,"body":"But it was so interesting because Rachel and"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1461.07,"endTime":1466.47,"body":"Emily talk a lot about both internal and"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1466.47,"endTime":1467.15,"body":"external."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1467.15,"endTime":1467.47,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1467.47,"endTime":1469.39,"body":"And finding a way to kind of marry those two."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1470.09,"endTime":1475.17,"body":"And it was interesting because some of the"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1470.09,"endTime":1475.17,"body":"characters were very, very clear, like, right"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1475.17,"endTime":1475.45,"body":"away."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1475.61,"endTime":1476.17,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1477.45,"endTime":1479.21,"body":"Like Duke, Orsino,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1479.61,"endTime":1480.25,"body":"Sebastian."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1480.33,"endTime":1483.05,"body":"The two of them were, like, pretty quick,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1484.17,"endTime":1484.73,"body":"you know?"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1485.13,"endTime":1489.21,"body":"And I think with Orsino, like, his internal"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1485.13,"endTime":1489.21,"body":"was really clear automatically."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1489.61,"endTime":1493.21,"body":"And, like, we had to think a little bit harder"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1489.61,"endTime":1493.21,"body":"about his external Sebastian."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1493.21,"endTime":1495.05,"body":"The whole thing was there pretty quickly."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1496.9,"endTime":1502.02,"body":"And then this character, Liv, who is the lady"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1496.9,"endTime":1502.02,"body":"Olivia from the play."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1502.42,"endTime":1504.82,"body":"Oh, we did so many rounds on Liv."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1504.9,"endTime":1506.42,"body":"At least three or four."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1506.5,"endTime":1507.62,"body":"Yeah. So it was a lot."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1507.62,"endTime":1509.58,"body":"And then she was also, like, the one who"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1509.58,"endTime":1509.86,"body":"needed."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1509.86,"endTime":1510.82,"body":"She was the problem child."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1510.82,"endTime":1512.34,"body":"We love her, but she's the problem child."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1512.82,"endTime":1514.7,"body":"We did several rounds of revision on her."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1514.7,"endTime":1516.66,"body":"And then my agent, when she gave me feedback,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1516.66,"endTime":1517.1,"body":"agreed."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1517.1,"endTime":1518.14,"body":"She was like, they're all great, but this"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1518.14,"endTime":1519.38,"body":"character needs a lot to work."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1519.38,"endTime":1523.41,"body":"So I'm not surprised when you told me that"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1519.38,"endTime":1523.41,"body":"this was the character that you found the"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1523.41,"endTime":1523.85,"body":"hardest."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1525.45,"endTime":1530.73,"body":"Yeah. So we did do a lot of development on the"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1525.45,"endTime":1530.73,"body":"characters."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1530.81,"endTime":1535.41,"body":"And the other thing that I really enjoyed"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1530.81,"endTime":1535.41,"body":"about this whole process that's gonna help me"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1535.41,"endTime":1544.57,"body":"in future books is that I had been trying for"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1535.41,"endTime":1544.57,"body":"a long time to figure out what my process was."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1544.57,"endTime":1544.93,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1544.93,"endTime":1546.41,"body":"Like, what's the best process for me."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1546.81,"endTime":1552.35,"body":"And so I'd been borrowing lots of other"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1546.81,"endTime":1552.35,"body":"people's tools and processes to figure it out,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1552.35,"endTime":1553.27,"body":"which is normal."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1553.27,"endTime":1554.23,"body":"I think that there's."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1554.23,"endTime":1554.83,"body":"That you do that."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1554.83,"endTime":1556.91,"body":"I think the problem that I was running into"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1556.91,"endTime":1563.63,"body":"and that probably a lot of writers run into is"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1556.91,"endTime":1563.63,"body":"I was trying to wholesale export other"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1563.63,"endTime":1565.87,"body":"people's processes and basically say,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1565.87,"endTime":1567.91,"body":"my process needs to look like this."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1568.39,"endTime":1571.07,"body":"And if my process looks like this, writing"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1568.39,"endTime":1571.07,"body":"will never suck."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1571.07,"endTime":1572.63,"body":"It'll be easy, it'll be straightforward."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1572.63,"endTime":1573.99,"body":"And of course, that's never going to happen"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1574.55,"endTime":1579.98,"body":"because it's hard and complicated and messy"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1574.55,"endTime":1579.98,"body":"and nonlinear."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1581.34,"endTime":1587.26,"body":"And so a big part of what I had to accept was"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1581.34,"endTime":1587.26,"body":"that it is messy and nonlinear and embracing"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1587.58,"endTime":1588.86,"body":"that for me,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1589.66,"endTime":1590.46,"body":"what the process."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1590.46,"endTime":1593.14,"body":"What I'm realizing my process is, because this"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1593.14,"endTime":1597.42,"body":"is what has worked for every book that I've"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1593.14,"endTime":1597.42,"body":"actually written all the way through,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1597.82,"endTime":1602.62,"body":"is I have to write, like, a hundred or so"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1597.82,"endTime":1602.62,"body":"pages of just exploring."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1603.42,"endTime":1605.66,"body":"Then I can step back and do all the"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1603.42,"endTime":1605.66,"body":"development work,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1606.19,"endTime":1608.67,"body":"and then I have the clarity I need to get all"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1606.19,"endTime":1608.67,"body":"the way through."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1609.71,"endTime":1613.03,"body":"And there was a lot of times when we were"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1609.71,"endTime":1613.03,"body":"doing that character work where we were"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1613.03,"endTime":1615.63,"body":"looking at those hundred or so pages that I'd"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1613.03,"endTime":1615.63,"body":"already written."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1615.63,"endTime":1620.11,"body":"And actually I was drafting some scenes as we"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1615.63,"endTime":1620.11,"body":"learned the character work."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1620.11,"endTime":1623.23,"body":"Because doing the character work would give me"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1620.11,"endTime":1623.23,"body":"ideas."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1623.39,"endTime":1625.31,"body":"It would help your scenes explore."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1625.39,"endTime":1629.11,"body":"Yeah. And writing the scenes also"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1625.39,"endTime":1629.11,"body":"helped me explore some of those ideas."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1629.11,"endTime":1632.39,"body":"And so there would be times when we would be"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1629.11,"endTime":1632.39,"body":"going back and forth with this character"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1632.39,"endTime":1636.37,"body":"stuff, and we'd be looking at a scene I'd"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1632.39,"endTime":1636.37,"body":"written before I'd even started doing any of"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1636.37,"endTime":1636.89,"body":"this character work."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1636.89,"endTime":1638.69,"body":"It's like, wow, past Sam was a genius."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1638.69,"endTime":1640.61,"body":"Like, look at this nice thing that I planted"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1640.61,"endTime":1644.61,"body":"for myself that now I can highlight in the"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1640.61,"endTime":1644.61,"body":"pages."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1646.45,"endTime":1651.61,"body":"So that was really useful for me as a writer"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1646.45,"endTime":1651.61,"body":"to one get that sort of, like, pump up for"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1651.61,"endTime":1653.17,"body":"myself of, oh, I do know what I'm doing."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1653.17,"endTime":1655.09,"body":"I have a lot of instincts that I can rely on."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1655.33,"endTime":1655.81,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1657.09,"endTime":1660.45,"body":"And to also have this sense of,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1657.09,"endTime":1660.45,"body":"like, this was a process that felt comfortable"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1661.71,"endTime":1662.43,"body":"and that I can,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1662.75,"endTime":1663.55,"body":"you know, repeat."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1663.55,"endTime":1665.15,"body":"It's not gonna feel the same way next time."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1665.15,"endTime":1668.83,"body":"But, like, I. I have steps, you know, like,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1665.15,"endTime":1668.83,"body":"that I feel like I can take."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1669.15,"endTime":1675.43,"body":"And I think, like, a really Successful"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1669.15,"endTime":1675.43,"body":"book coaching relationship allows you to lean"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1675.43,"endTime":1679.39,"body":"into those things because it is so much based"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1675.43,"endTime":1679.39,"body":"on instinct."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1679.39,"endTime":1681.47,"body":"It is so much based on, like, what are you,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1682.03,"endTime":1684.63,"body":"like, compelled to do?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1682.03,"endTime":1684.63,"body":"Like, you've."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1684.63,"endTime":1687.39,"body":"I. I really feel like, to me, I. I'm."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1687.65,"endTime":1690.13,"body":"This is a podcast, but I'm using my hands, so"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1690.13,"endTime":1691.33,"body":"I'm going to describe it to you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1692.13,"endTime":1696.21,"body":"To me, I feel, like, this pull in my"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1692.13,"endTime":1696.21,"body":"collarbones when I'm having, like, a gut"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1696.21,"endTime":1699.45,"body":"instinct of, like, I don't want to do this, I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1696.21,"endTime":1699.45,"body":"want to do this."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1699.45,"endTime":1701.73,"body":"And it, like, pulls me in a specific"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1699.45,"endTime":1701.73,"body":"direction."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1701.97,"endTime":1706.21,"body":"And I think, like, a successful book coaching"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1701.97,"endTime":1706.21,"body":"relationship empowers you to follow that pole,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1706.37,"endTime":1711.21,"body":"because I know we're just trying to explore"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1706.37,"endTime":1711.21,"body":"characters and, like, if you have a poll to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1711.21,"endTime":1712.85,"body":"write a scene, write the scene,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1713.3,"endTime":1716.82,"body":"because you're going to learn a lot from that,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1713.3,"endTime":1716.82,"body":"and it's really powerful."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1717.22,"endTime":1721.18,"body":"And you writing those hundred pages before you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1717.22,"endTime":1721.18,"body":"even came to work with me, it was also really"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1721.18,"endTime":1723.86,"body":"helpful because I got to read them and be"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1721.18,"endTime":1723.86,"body":"like, this is your writing style."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1723.86,"endTime":1724.34,"body":"This is."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1724.74,"endTime":1726.1,"body":"This is the,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1726.42,"endTime":1729.06,"body":"you know, the bones we're working with for"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1726.42,"endTime":1729.06,"body":"these characters."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1729.139,"endTime":1732.02,"body":"And I think it informed a ton of our"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1729.139,"endTime":1732.02,"body":"conversations."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1732.82,"endTime":1735.22,"body":"And there's not,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1736.1,"endTime":1741.26,"body":"like, there's a structure to book coaching,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1736.1,"endTime":1741.26,"body":"and there's, like, a process to writing a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1741.26,"endTime":1741.54,"body":"book,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1741.9,"endTime":1743.9,"body":"but it doesn't matter."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1743.9,"endTime":1746.7,"body":"Like, it means nothing if a writer themselves"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1747.82,"endTime":1751.98,"body":"doesn't align with those instincts, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1747.82,"endTime":1751.98,"body":"like, if it doesn't align with that writer's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1751.98,"endTime":1752.3,"body":"process."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1754.22,"endTime":1755.58,"body":"So part of coaching,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1756.14,"endTime":1761.18,"body":"part of what makes coaching so special to me"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1756.14,"endTime":1761.18,"body":"is that ability to discover that process as"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1761.18,"endTime":1766.06,"body":"you're working with a writer and to meet them"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1761.18,"endTime":1766.06,"body":"as they encounter those mindset hurdles, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1766.14,"endTime":1767.82,"body":"perfectionism, critiques,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1768.16,"endTime":1769.2,"body":"you know, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1769.68,"endTime":1770.8,"body":"it never stops."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1770.8,"endTime":1772.4,"body":"You're getting all these different things,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1772.4,"endTime":1776.72,"body":"and, like, having someone to talk about it"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1772.4,"endTime":1776.72,"body":"with or just, like, vent about it, too,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1777.28,"endTime":1778.32,"body":"is really helpful."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1778.8,"endTime":1779.28,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1779.6,"endTime":1785.44,"body":"Yeah. So I think, like, you doing that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1779.6,"endTime":1785.44,"body":"to discover your process and to lean into it,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1786.64,"endTime":1790.96,"body":"I would rather you do that than, like, try to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1786.64,"endTime":1790.96,"body":"sit down and force yourself to write backstory"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1790.96,"endTime":1791.48,"body":"scenes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1791.48,"endTime":1794.05,"body":"Because I asked you to do it just because of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1794.05,"endTime":1794.33,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1794.33,"endTime":1796.53,"body":"Like, I'd rather have you do what you feel led"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1796.53,"endTime":1797.05,"body":"to do,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1797.37,"endTime":1801.05,"body":"thinking that, like, your gut's telling you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1797.37,"endTime":1801.05,"body":"something important that you can explore, and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1801.05,"endTime":1802.65,"body":"we're gonna probably learn something from it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1802.65,"endTime":1806.01,"body":"So let's take a week to do that and then come"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1806.01,"endTime":1809.729,"body":"back and be like, oh, my gosh, here's this"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1806.01,"endTime":1809.729,"body":"nugget of brilliance that I wrote this week."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1809.729,"endTime":1810.81,"body":"This is what matters."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1811.37,"endTime":1813.93,"body":"Sebastian's afraid of losing control."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1814.09,"endTime":1815.41,"body":"He needs to feel safe."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1815.41,"endTime":1815.93,"body":"You Know."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1816.17,"endTime":1817.13,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1817.37,"endTime":1817.77,"body":"And,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1819.36,"endTime":1820.8,"body":"you know, and it was also just like,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1822.16,"endTime":1826.88,"body":"I'm, you know, now kind of getting into a"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1822.16,"endTime":1826.88,"body":"place where I'm ready to write future books"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1827.68,"endTime":1833.28,"body":"and, you know, kind of looking into that"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1827.68,"endTime":1833.28,"body":"future of writing books without having weekly"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1833.28,"endTime":1835.84,"body":"sessions with Rachel anymore, which I'm very"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1833.28,"endTime":1835.84,"body":"sad about."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1835.84,"endTime":1837.12,"body":"But I think time,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1839.04,"endTime":1844.0,"body":"and that's basically what I'm doing, is I'm"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1839.04,"endTime":1844.0,"body":"like, well, I know what works for me."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1844.0,"endTime":1848.53,"body":"And what I like is I start by just writing"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1844.0,"endTime":1848.53,"body":"these scenes."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1848.53,"endTime":1852.77,"body":"And so instead of being frustrated of, like,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1848.53,"endTime":1852.77,"body":"why can't I just write an outline?"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1853.41,"endTime":1858.05,"body":"Or why can't I just write sequential scenes"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1853.41,"endTime":1858.05,"body":"that, like, one leads to another?"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1858.29,"endTime":1860.89,"body":"And, like, then I have, like, a complete"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1858.29,"endTime":1860.89,"body":"manuscript at the end?"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1860.89,"endTime":1862.01,"body":"Neither of those works for me."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1862.01,"endTime":1862.69,"body":"Like, I'm."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1863.01,"endTime":1865.81,"body":"It's. It's not exactly what you'd envision as"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1863.01,"endTime":1865.81,"body":"a panther."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1865.81,"endTime":1868.13,"body":"It's not exactly what you'd envision as a"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1865.81,"endTime":1868.13,"body":"plotter."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1868.13,"endTime":1869.85,"body":"It's like a back and forth."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1869.85,"endTime":1871.73,"body":"And I think, honestly, like, a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1871.81,"endTime":1872.69,"body":"probably do that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1873.34,"endTime":1873.66,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1874.06,"endTime":1875.02,"body":"Yeah. And, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1875.34,"endTime":1880.14,"body":"that figuring that out doesn't mean that it"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1875.34,"endTime":1880.14,"body":"takes you more time."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1880.14,"endTime":1884.26,"body":"I think that's another really big myth that,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1880.14,"endTime":1884.26,"body":"like, well, plotters save all this time"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1884.26,"endTime":1886.86,"body":"because they've got it all laid out and they"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1884.26,"endTime":1886.86,"body":"don't have to make a lot of changes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1887.1,"endTime":1887.58,"body":"Wrong."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1887.66,"endTime":1888.62,"body":"That's not true."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1889.34,"endTime":1891.82,"body":"Or like, oh, just, you know, going with the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1889.34,"endTime":1891.82,"body":"flow."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1892.06,"endTime":1893.9,"body":"You move a lot faster, so it save you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1893.9,"endTime":1894.3,"body":"No,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1895.1,"endTime":1897.82,"body":"I mean, time is arbitrary in this process."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1897.9,"endTime":1899.54,"body":"But I think your coaching journey,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1899.54,"endTime":1899.76,"body":"specifically."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1899.91,"endTime":1900.47,"body":"Specifically,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1900.95,"endTime":1901.83,"body":"like we said,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1902.39,"endTime":1905.75,"body":"you did so much in so little time, and that's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1905.99,"endTime":1906.63,"body":"And you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1906.63,"endTime":1908.79,"body":"You, like, explored your process, and you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1906.63,"endTime":1908.79,"body":"figured."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1908.79,"endTime":1911.59,"body":"I mean, you wrote hundreds of thousands of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1908.79,"endTime":1911.59,"body":"words."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1911.59,"endTime":1911.99,"body":"Yeah, I did."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1912.47,"endTime":1913.03,"body":"I did."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1913.03,"endTime":1914.95,"body":"So for those of you who didn't"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1913.03,"endTime":1914.95,"body":"know this, the book."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1914.95,"endTime":1915.79,"body":"When we finished."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1915.79,"endTime":1917.55,"body":"When I finished the first draft of the book,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1917.55,"endTime":1919.35,"body":"it was 163,000 words."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1920.47,"endTime":1924.63,"body":"And then when I submitted it to my agent, it"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1920.47,"endTime":1924.63,"body":"was 109,000 words, which is incredible."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1925.03,"endTime":1929.39,"body":"Yeah. We're trying to get it down to 105,000"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1925.03,"endTime":1929.39,"body":"words and that."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1929.39,"endTime":1931.07,"body":"And that 163,000 words."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1931.07,"endTime":1932.99,"body":"I had already dropped some parts."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1933.07,"endTime":1933.55,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1933.55,"endTime":1937.15,"body":"Like, by the time, like, I'd"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1933.55,"endTime":1937.15,"body":"already cut some stuff that didn't fit."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1938.99,"endTime":1940.51,"body":"And I think, honestly,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1941.23,"endTime":1944.67,"body":"you know, that letting myself have my process,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1945.23,"endTime":1946.99,"body":"like, if you're talking about how, like,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1947.95,"endTime":1952.15,"body":"I know I thought it as a writer, and I think"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1947.95,"endTime":1952.15,"body":"probably a lot of folks have of, like, how do"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1952.15,"endTime":1956.55,"body":"I make this more efficient for myself?"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1952.15,"endTime":1956.55,"body":"The thing that made it both the most fun and"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1956.55,"endTime":1960.93,"body":"the most efficient was just doing it the way"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1956.55,"endTime":1960.93,"body":"that felt natural for me."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1962.45,"endTime":1962.93,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1963.65,"endTime":1965.09,"body":"I believe that a hundred percent."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1965.09,"endTime":1966.61,"body":"And I see that in my clients."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1966.61,"endTime":1969.33,"body":"I see that in TW and myself,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1969.97,"endTime":1973.25,"body":"when I tried to force myself to do it a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1969.97,"endTime":1973.25,"body":"specific way,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1973.57,"endTime":1975.57,"body":"that was when I did the least amount of work."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1975.97,"endTime":1978.85,"body":"Why. Why am I gonna do something that's not"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1975.97,"endTime":1978.85,"body":"fun?"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1979.01,"endTime":1979.49,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1979.97,"endTime":1980.97,"body":"yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1980.97,"endTime":1981.57,"body":"And this was."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1981.57,"endTime":1982.53,"body":"This was so much fun."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1983.81,"endTime":1985.65,"body":"And anyway, so we."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1985.65,"endTime":1987.61,"body":"We started with getting to know me in the"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1987.61,"endTime":1987.89,"body":"book,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1988.53,"endTime":1990.01,"body":"which was informative for both of us."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1990.01,"endTime":1992.13,"body":"Then we spent a lot of time, like a. Several"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1992.13,"endTime":1992.41,"body":"good."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1992.41,"endTime":1993.57,"body":"Several months on character."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1995.01,"endTime":1995.61,"body":"And then what."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":1995.61,"endTime":1996.61,"body":"What did we do after that?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1996.69,"endTime":2000.01,"body":"And then we went into like a plotting"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1996.69,"endTime":2000.01,"body":"phase."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2000.01,"endTime":2000.53,"body":"Ish."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2001.65,"endTime":2002.37,"body":"Because we."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2003.33,"endTime":2004.77,"body":"We did a spreadsheet,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2005.25,"endTime":2006.29,"body":"but I don't."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2006.61,"endTime":2010.52,"body":"I don't think we did a full one or I. I don't"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2006.61,"endTime":2010.52,"body":"know that we went as."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2011.16,"endTime":2016.04,"body":"I have a tool where we plot, but, like, how"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2011.16,"endTime":2016.04,"body":"much we do is our."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2016.04,"endTime":2016.76,"body":"I don't care."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2016.76,"endTime":2018.4,"body":"It just is kind of like what's going to be"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2018.4,"endTime":2019.48,"body":"best for a client."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2019.48,"endTime":2022.84,"body":"So then we spent time, like, I think, building"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2019.48,"endTime":2022.84,"body":"out the structure of the story,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2023.24,"endTime":2024.52,"body":"planning things in advance."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2024.52,"endTime":2026.119,"body":"I think you had a couple documents where you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2026.119,"endTime":2027.72,"body":"would, like, summarize, you know, what."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2027.8,"endTime":2029.08,"body":"What we're working towards."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2030.12,"endTime":2030.92,"body":"And then we."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2031.48,"endTime":2034.2,"body":"We came back because process is different in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2031.48,"endTime":2034.2,"body":"revisions."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2034.6,"endTime":2038.65,"body":"So when we got to revisions, we came back to a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2034.6,"endTime":2038.65,"body":"spreadsheet,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2038.97,"endTime":2043.17,"body":"but we spent time plotting and like, building"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2038.97,"endTime":2043.17,"body":"out, you know, what does the story look like"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2043.17,"endTime":2047.21,"body":"from beginning to end and how in depth you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2043.17,"endTime":2047.21,"body":"get."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2047.45,"endTime":2048.41,"body":"Doesn't matter."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2048.49,"endTime":2050.73,"body":"I think, like, what you needed at the time was"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2050.73,"endTime":2052.57,"body":"to understand where we were headed,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2053.05,"endTime":2056.49,"body":"to also have the freedom to write whatever you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2053.05,"endTime":2056.49,"body":"wanted."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2057.85,"endTime":2061.05,"body":"So we did have a lot of words, we did have a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2057.85,"endTime":2061.05,"body":"lot of different plot points."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2061.05,"endTime":2063.53,"body":"You had a lot of ideas that we needed to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2061.05,"endTime":2063.53,"body":"explore,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2063.89,"endTime":2065.25,"body":"and that was incredible."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2066.53,"endTime":2069.17,"body":"So we did that, but definitely did not take as"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2066.53,"endTime":2069.17,"body":"much time."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2069.49,"endTime":2071.49,"body":"And then we started drafting."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2071.65,"endTime":2073.73,"body":"Then we were like, why don't we just write?"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2074.05,"endTime":2076.77,"body":"Yeah. And that plotting part,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2074.05,"endTime":2076.77,"body":"what was interesting about that for me."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2076.77,"endTime":2082.17,"body":"And again, this is another place where I think"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2076.77,"endTime":2082.17,"body":"I learned a lot about writing craft and what"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2082.17,"endTime":2083.01,"body":"helped me."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2083.25,"endTime":2089.21,"body":"So I don't think I had ever before that point"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2083.25,"endTime":2089.21,"body":"written an outline that had basically every"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2089.21,"endTime":2091.7,"body":"plan seen of the book in it."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2091.78,"endTime":2092.26,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2093.3,"endTime":2099.14,"body":"I had written outlines that like, summarized"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2093.3,"endTime":2099.14,"body":"all the save the cat points or like, what, you"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2099.14,"endTime":2103.62,"body":"know, any of the other outlining methods I"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2099.14,"endTime":2103.62,"body":"tried, but I'd never actually found a version"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2104.26,"endTime":2107.54,"body":"of writing every single scene in the outline."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2108.02,"endTime":2112.98,"body":"And the spreadsheet that you had me do that I"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2108.02,"endTime":2112.98,"body":"actually really liked."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2112.98,"endTime":2114.82,"body":"And we'll probably do something like that"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2112.98,"endTime":2114.82,"body":"again."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2114.98,"endTime":2115.54,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2116.27,"endTime":2122.31,"body":"Was actually just having me fill"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2116.27,"endTime":2122.31,"body":"out the parts of the plot structure which you"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2122.31,"endTime":2127.95,"body":"and Emily have a great blog about the parts of"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2122.31,"endTime":2127.95,"body":"a plot structure that I've actually printed"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2127.95,"endTime":2130.51,"body":"out and given to students in a creative"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2127.95,"endTime":2130.51,"body":"writing class that I taught."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2131.39,"endTime":2135.95,"body":"And I'll link to it on my substack."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2136.83,"endTime":2142.51,"body":"But what was really cool about that is that in"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2136.83,"endTime":2142.51,"body":"this spreadsheet, I was filling out both"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2142.51,"endTime":2146.66,"body":"scenes I had written and also scenes that I"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2142.51,"endTime":2146.66,"body":"hadn't written yet."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2146.66,"endTime":2153.38,"body":"And the point was to be able to have something"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2146.66,"endTime":2153.38,"body":"I decided I wanted basically every scene so"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2153.38,"endTime":2155.3,"body":"that when I sat down to write,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2156.42,"endTime":2160.02,"body":"I would know exactly what needed to happen."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2161.94,"endTime":2168.18,"body":"But what was really interesting about that is"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2161.94,"endTime":2168.18,"body":"I had all these scenes that I had written,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2169.22,"endTime":2172.62,"body":"and some of them were, like, fully complete"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2169.22,"endTime":2172.62,"body":"scenes."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2172.62,"endTime":2174.86,"body":"And some of them, it was like, I wrote the"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2172.62,"endTime":2174.86,"body":"scene,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2175.18,"endTime":2179.86,"body":"but it's not quite done, and I don't know"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2175.18,"endTime":2179.86,"body":"what's missing, and I don't know how to exit"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2179.86,"endTime":2181.42,"body":"the scene and, like, move on to the next."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2181.42,"endTime":2182.14,"body":"Like, I can't."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2182.38,"endTime":2187.98,"body":"Like, I had pretty good instincts for scene"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2182.38,"endTime":2187.98,"body":"writing, but I had trouble, like, stringing"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2187.98,"endTime":2188.62,"body":"scenes together."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2189.58,"endTime":2194.7,"body":"And so what I realized from filling out this"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2189.58,"endTime":2194.7,"body":"spreadsheet was that I was really good at"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2194.78,"endTime":2196.3,"body":"putting characters in a."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2197.19,"endTime":2199.59,"body":"Having characters kind of come in to a scene,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2199.91,"endTime":2201.35,"body":"experience a conflict,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2201.83,"endTime":2203.11,"body":"escalate the conflict."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2203.35,"endTime":2205.63,"body":"But what I was missing was that often they"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2205.63,"endTime":2207.51,"body":"weren't coming into the scene with a goal."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2207.75,"endTime":2209.71,"body":"Yeah, sometimes they were, but sometimes they"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2209.71,"endTime":2210.07,"body":"weren't."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2210.07,"endTime":2211.39,"body":"And then the other thing that was really"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2211.39,"endTime":2215.55,"body":"missing was that I wasn't giving my characters"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2211.39,"endTime":2215.55,"body":"a choice moment, like a decision moment,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2215.55,"endTime":2222.15,"body":"where they had to confront that conflict and"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2215.55,"endTime":2222.15,"body":"make a decision that then had consequences"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2222.15,"endTime":2223.27,"body":"that moved the story forward."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2224.32,"endTime":2231.2,"body":"And so actually having to plot out my story in"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2224.32,"endTime":2231.2,"body":"that spreadsheet taught me this is what I was"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2231.28,"endTime":2232.32,"body":"forgetting to do."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2232.32,"endTime":2232.88,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2232.96,"endTime":2237.72,"body":"And so what it meant was that"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2232.96,"endTime":2237.72,"body":"then my future scenes that I hadn't written"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2237.72,"endTime":2239.759,"body":"yet had that planned out."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2240.4,"endTime":2243.28,"body":"And there were a couple of times where we did"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2240.4,"endTime":2243.28,"body":"actually go off script."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2243.28,"endTime":2245.04,"body":"Like, we would get to a point in this"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2243.28,"endTime":2245.04,"body":"drafting."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2245.04,"endTime":2249.68,"body":"It's like, okay, what I thought was gonna"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2245.04,"endTime":2249.68,"body":"happen doesn't quite make sense."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2249.76,"endTime":2254.75,"body":"Or there's something is missing."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2254.75,"endTime":2256.15,"body":"We need to add a scene."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2256.31,"endTime":2262.71,"body":"And I didn't actually necessarily have to go"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2256.31,"endTime":2262.71,"body":"in and do that whole planning process again in"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2262.71,"endTime":2266.31,"body":"order to write that, because I knew what all"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2262.71,"endTime":2266.31,"body":"the parts were."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2266.87,"endTime":2271.11,"body":"And so I've noticed that my scene writing,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2266.87,"endTime":2271.11,"body":"even if I don't sit down and plan out a scene"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2271.11,"endTime":2275.27,"body":"first, my scenes are more complete now when I"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2271.11,"endTime":2275.27,"body":"just improvise a scene."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2275.43,"endTime":2277.91,"body":"Yeah. Cause I think it becomes, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2275.43,"endTime":2277.91,"body":"muscle memory."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2278.39,"endTime":2281.51,"body":"But you have to have a really conscious"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2278.39,"endTime":2281.51,"body":"awareness of."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2281.72,"endTime":2286.2,"body":"Of scene structure or, like, how they all work"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2281.72,"endTime":2286.2,"body":"together at first."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2286.36,"endTime":2287.88,"body":"And that's challenging."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2288.68,"endTime":2289.4,"body":"And, like, we."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2289.88,"endTime":2295.52,"body":"We talk a lot about this in tenacious writing,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2289.88,"endTime":2295.52,"body":"but when you're working, when you're writing a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2295.52,"endTime":2299.32,"body":"book, and, like, specifically when you're"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2295.52,"endTime":2299.32,"body":"working with a coach, like, with me or working"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2299.32,"endTime":2299.96,"body":"with Sam,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2301.32,"endTime":2305.48,"body":"we're asking a writer to not only, like, learn"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2301.32,"endTime":2305.48,"body":"something,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2306.12,"endTime":2308.68,"body":"but then to immediately, like, put it into"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2306.12,"endTime":2308.68,"body":"practice."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2309.5,"endTime":2310.86,"body":"Because we're using your book,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2311.26,"endTime":2315.74,"body":"so we're learning scene structure, and then"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2311.26,"endTime":2315.74,"body":"we're immediately doing it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2315.98,"endTime":2316.78,"body":"And that's hard."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2316.86,"endTime":2320.1,"body":"Like, that's a really tough cognitive ask of,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2320.1,"endTime":2324.46,"body":"like, asking someone to understand a theory"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2320.1,"endTime":2324.46,"body":"and then apply it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2324.46,"endTime":2326.86,"body":"Those are two different steps in, like, the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2324.46,"endTime":2326.86,"body":"learning process."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2327.5,"endTime":2327.9,"body":"But,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2328.38,"endTime":2330.42,"body":"like, that takes time is what I'm."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2330.42,"endTime":2331.18,"body":"I'm trying to get out."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2331.18,"endTime":2332.46,"body":"It takes time to, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2333.34,"endTime":2335.74,"body":"understand a new skill and then get good at"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2333.34,"endTime":2335.74,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2336.02,"endTime":2338.58,"body":"But in the writing process, we often, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2336.02,"endTime":2338.58,"body":"skip that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2338.58,"endTime":2341.86,"body":"We're expecting ourselves to learn something"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2338.58,"endTime":2341.86,"body":"and then immediately do it, like, really,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2341.86,"endTime":2342.34,"body":"really well."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2342.34,"endTime":2343.3,"body":"Cause we just learned it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2343.46,"endTime":2343.94,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2344.42,"endTime":2345.7,"body":"it doesn't work like that,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2346.02,"endTime":2350.82,"body":"but I do think with working with a coach, it's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2346.02,"endTime":2350.82,"body":"way faster to bridge that gap, to, like, move"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2350.82,"endTime":2355.66,"body":"up in these levels of learning because you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2350.82,"endTime":2355.66,"body":"have someone immediately giving you feedback."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2355.66,"endTime":2359.18,"body":"And I felt that way with you, where I didn't"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2355.66,"endTime":2359.18,"body":"have to tell you a lot of times, or I didn't"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2359.18,"endTime":2361.46,"body":"have to, like, leave comments or feedback of,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2361.91,"endTime":2362.79,"body":"we need a goal here."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2362.79,"endTime":2364.71,"body":"Like, you could see it, and then once you saw"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2364.71,"endTime":2368.75,"body":"it, you built it into how your brain looks at"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2364.71,"endTime":2368.75,"body":"scenes and how."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2368.75,"endTime":2370.31,"body":"How you write structure."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2370.31,"endTime":2372.03,"body":"And it does become a lot more natural."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2372.03,"endTime":2373.99,"body":"I definitely saw that with you, and I. I think"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2374.55,"endTime":2376.31,"body":"that's what happens with most of us."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2376.31,"endTime":2378.51,"body":"But we just get frustrated in that middle part"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2378.51,"endTime":2379.11,"body":"of, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2379.43,"endTime":2380.91,"body":"you're not gonna be good at it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2380.91,"endTime":2381.43,"body":"Sorry."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2381.67,"endTime":2384.35,"body":"Yeah, well, and I think, you"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2381.67,"endTime":2384.35,"body":"know, the other thing that you're so good at"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2384.35,"endTime":2386.99,"body":"with feedback is so one."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2386.99,"endTime":2389.27,"body":"You give a ton of praise and, like, hype,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2389.27,"endTime":2390.65,"body":"which is amazing."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2390.65,"endTime":2392.41,"body":"So important and so important."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2393.77,"endTime":2394.17,"body":"And,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2394.73,"endTime":2398.01,"body":"you know, so, like, anytime I would get"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2394.73,"endTime":2398.01,"body":"feedback from Rachel, it was like, I would get"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2398.01,"endTime":2401.61,"body":"this, like, you know, nice little glow of,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2398.01,"endTime":2401.61,"body":"like, oh, someone is, like, enjoying my."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2401.61,"endTime":2403.13,"body":"Someone's laughing at my jokes."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2403.45,"endTime":2406.81,"body":"Someone loves my little sad boys as much as I"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2403.45,"endTime":2406.81,"body":"do."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2407.53,"endTime":2408.33,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2408.73,"endTime":2411.13,"body":"My little sad boys, my stupid"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2408.73,"endTime":2411.13,"body":"jokes,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2411.45,"endTime":2412.33,"body":"all that stuff."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2412.73,"endTime":2414.01,"body":"So, like, that's really nice."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2414.57,"endTime":2416.81,"body":"But then on top of that, like, from a learning"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2414.57,"endTime":2416.81,"body":"perspective,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2417.99,"endTime":2423.55,"body":"something I think you do really well is that"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2417.99,"endTime":2423.55,"body":"you don't try to talk about everything all at"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2423.55,"endTime":2427.51,"body":"once when you're doing feedback."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2427.51,"endTime":2429.35,"body":"It's like, okay, what are we working on right"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2429.35,"endTime":2429.59,"body":"now?"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2429.59,"endTime":2432.87,"body":"Or what's the most important issue for us to"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2429.59,"endTime":2432.87,"body":"think about right now?"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2433.11,"endTime":2438.39,"body":"So it's like, we spent some time really"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2433.11,"endTime":2438.39,"body":"focusing on scene structure."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2438.39,"endTime":2438.71,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2438.87,"endTime":2443.24,"body":"And so that meant that as I was writing in"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2443.24,"endTime":2445.12,"body":"that phase, I was mainly, like,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2445.44,"endTime":2448.64,"body":"thinking about the scene structure, and I"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2445.44,"endTime":2448.64,"body":"wasn't so much worried about anything else."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2448.8,"endTime":2452.16,"body":"And then, like, once it was like, okay, scene"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2448.8,"endTime":2452.16,"body":"structure is."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2452.16,"endTime":2453.6,"body":"You know, we're getting that."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2453.92,"endTime":2459.24,"body":"Then it would be something like internal"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2453.92,"endTime":2459.24,"body":"processing, which was something else that I"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2459.24,"endTime":2466.32,"body":"needed a bit more of on the page to kind of"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2459.24,"endTime":2466.32,"body":"bridge myself, but then also the reader to,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2466.88,"endTime":2470.09,"body":"like, how did we get here?"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2466.88,"endTime":2470.09,"body":"Like, how does this makes sense for this"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2470.09,"endTime":2470.93,"body":"character to do this?"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2472.69,"endTime":2474.61,"body":"So, like, having, like, that's that focus."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2474.69,"endTime":2475.65,"body":"Because sometimes,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2476.77,"endTime":2479.89,"body":"you know, I think a lot of us get a lot of our"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2476.77,"endTime":2479.89,"body":"feedback from critique partners."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2479.89,"endTime":2481.33,"body":"And critique partners are wonderful,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2482.29,"endTime":2488.29,"body":"but most of the time, critique partners are"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2482.29,"endTime":2488.29,"body":"not trained coaches or editors."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2488.29,"endTime":2494.13,"body":"And so what I think can get some sort of"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2488.29,"endTime":2494.13,"body":"frustrating for some writers is that you might"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2494.13,"endTime":2499.39,"body":"get a lot of feedback from a critique partner"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2494.13,"endTime":2499.39,"body":"where they're talking about a lot of different"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2499.39,"endTime":2504.67,"body":"things and maybe aren't the most important"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2499.39,"endTime":2504.67,"body":"thing for you to focus on right now?"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2504.75,"endTime":2508.83,"body":"So, like, figuring out from that feedback,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2504.75,"endTime":2508.83,"body":"like, what do I do right now?"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2509.31,"endTime":2514.67,"body":"And then the other thing is that I think"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2509.31,"endTime":2514.67,"body":"really good coaches are also very good at"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2514.67,"endTime":2517.39,"body":"identifying why something isn't working."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2518.35,"endTime":2522.75,"body":"Whereas I think that sometimes critique"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2518.35,"endTime":2522.75,"body":"partners are good at identifying that"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2522.75,"endTime":2523.59,"body":"something isn't working."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2523.59,"endTime":2524.0,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2524.31,"endTime":2527.43,"body":"And because they're not trained, may not know"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2524.31,"endTime":2527.43,"body":"why something's not working,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2528.95,"endTime":2531.79,"body":"which is then how you end up with feedback"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2528.95,"endTime":2531.79,"body":"that's like, well, I think it's all these"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2531.79,"endTime":2533.27,"body":"things that I'm."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2533.27,"endTime":2534.95,"body":"And it may not actually be the root of the"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2534.95,"endTime":2535.19,"body":"problem."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2535.51,"endTime":2536.15,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2536.55,"endTime":2541.15,"body":"So I think that's another benefit of working"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2536.55,"endTime":2541.15,"body":"with a coach as opposed to a critique partner"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2541.15,"endTime":2541.59,"body":"is that,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2543.27,"endTime":2546.55,"body":"you know, coaches especially, who are"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2543.27,"endTime":2546.55,"body":"experienced and have been trained,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2547.43,"endTime":2551.43,"body":"know how to focus on just, like, the most"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2547.43,"endTime":2551.43,"body":"important thing at a time and, like, kind of"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2551.71,"endTime":2552.51,"body":"building you."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2552.83,"endTime":2556.27,"body":"Helping you build, like, one skill at a time"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2552.83,"endTime":2556.27,"body":"or a couple skills at a time,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2556.75,"endTime":2562.87,"body":"instead of trying to help you do everything"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2556.75,"endTime":2562.87,"body":"all at once and then also tend to be really"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2562.87,"endTime":2563.55,"body":"good at saying,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2564.19,"endTime":2565.55,"body":"oh, here's the problem, right."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2565.55,"endTime":2567.709,"body":"Instead of something's not right here."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2567.709,"endTime":2568.63,"body":"And I don't know what it is."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2568.63,"endTime":2569.95,"body":"Not that we don't sometimes have those"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2569.95,"endTime":2571.39,"body":"conversations like we do."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2571.39,"endTime":2572.23,"body":"Yeah, we do."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2572.23,"endTime":2573.63,"body":"Because, I mean, that's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2574.19,"endTime":2575.47,"body":"That's also part of It."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2575.63,"endTime":2577.31,"body":"Because some of that too is."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2577.39,"endTime":2578.91,"body":"I can feel something's not right,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2579.47,"endTime":2580.99,"body":"but I don't know what you're looking for."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2581.39,"endTime":2584.11,"body":"So then we can talk about like, okay, what's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2581.39,"endTime":2584.11,"body":"our goal with this?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2584.11,"endTime":2585.55,"body":"Like, we just had this with that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2585.55,"endTime":2587.79,"body":"With that chunk of internal processing from"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2587.79,"endTime":2588.59,"body":"Viola."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2588.67,"endTime":2591.67,"body":"Yeah, we had this chunk of"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2588.67,"endTime":2591.67,"body":"internal processing for Viola where I was"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2591.67,"endTime":2597.07,"body":"working on some edit notes from my agent of"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2591.67,"endTime":2597.07,"body":"like adding in a particular sort of like"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2597.07,"endTime":2602.07,"body":"internal thing for this character and just"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2597.07,"endTime":2602.07,"body":"like having more of it like show up on the"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2602.07,"endTime":2603.71,"body":"page at various points in the story."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2604.03,"endTime":2605.55,"body":"And I like written a version."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2606.15,"endTime":2606.79,"body":"Then I was like,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2607.11,"endTime":2607.99,"body":"I don't really know."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2607.99,"endTime":2609.27,"body":"And Rachel's like, yeah, I don't really know"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2609.27,"endTime":2609.47,"body":"either."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2609.47,"endTime":2610.79,"body":"This seems not quite right."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2610.79,"endTime":2615.35,"body":"And so then we talked about it and I wrote a"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2610.79,"endTime":2615.35,"body":"different version which worked so much better."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2615.59,"endTime":2616.71,"body":"Yeah. And that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2616.71,"endTime":2617.75,"body":"That happens a lot."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2617.99,"endTime":2618.55,"body":"Um,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2618.95,"endTime":2619.83,"body":"but like being able."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2619.83,"endTime":2621.59,"body":"You're so right that being able to identify"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2622.39,"endTime":2622.79,"body":"why."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2623.11,"endTime":2627.31,"body":"Even if I can't say, here's what I would"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2623.11,"endTime":2627.31,"body":"suggest to do, I still am going to try to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2627.31,"endTime":2632.9,"body":"verbalize like, this is why I was confused or"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2627.31,"endTime":2632.9,"body":"I don't feel like this aligns or maybe we"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2632.9,"endTime":2636.06,"body":"could be more clear with goals or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2632.9,"endTime":2636.06,"body":"what."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2636.06,"endTime":2637.26,"body":"What are we trying to say?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2637.58,"endTime":2640.38,"body":"Um, but yeah, I. It's very intentional."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2641.42,"endTime":2642.14,"body":"It. I."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2643.02,"endTime":2643.54,"body":"I want."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2643.54,"endTime":2644.3,"body":"Did it feel."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2644.38,"endTime":2645.74,"body":"I mean, you just said that it did."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2645.82,"endTime":2646.78,"body":"But at the time,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2647.18,"endTime":2650.46,"body":"like when we're working through those early,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2651.18,"endTime":2655.78,"body":"this is what we would call like the skill,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2651.18,"endTime":2655.78,"body":"like the on page skills development part of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2655.78,"endTime":2658.56,"body":"the, of the program that, that we work with."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2658.56,"endTime":2660.68,"body":"So this is like phase four, phase five,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2660.68,"endTime":2661.24,"body":"whatever."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2661.48,"endTime":2667.24,"body":"But I'm very like intentionally only doing one"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2661.48,"endTime":2667.24,"body":"thing at a time because it is too much to do"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2667.24,"endTime":2667.56,"body":"everything."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2668.04,"endTime":2674.08,"body":"And it also is like not going to be helpful in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2668.04,"endTime":2674.08,"body":"the long run if I highlight every single thing"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2674.08,"endTime":2678.68,"body":"that could possibly be changed on a document"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2674.08,"endTime":2678.68,"body":"that, as a."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2678.84,"endTime":2683.04,"body":"Getting that, like as an author getting that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2678.84,"endTime":2683.04,"body":"back, you would look at that and be like, holy"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2683.04,"endTime":2683.68,"body":"crap, I'm."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2683.68,"endTime":2684.44,"body":"I'm terrible."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2684.44,"endTime":2685.4,"body":"Like this whole."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2685.72,"endTime":2686.76,"body":"I should throw it out."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2686.76,"endTime":2687.48,"body":"Like, that's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2687.56,"endTime":2689.2,"body":"No, that's not effective."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2689.2,"endTime":2690.72,"body":"We're not reaching our learning goals."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2690.72,"endTime":2691.88,"body":"We're not learning anything."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2692.2,"endTime":2694.64,"body":"So I do normally follow exactly how you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2692.2,"endTime":2694.64,"body":"described."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2694.64,"endTime":2696.12,"body":"I always do scene structure first."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2696.52,"endTime":2697.88,"body":"A little bit of show, don't tell."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2698.12,"endTime":2702.16,"body":"So usually that's internal processing or, or"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2702.16,"endTime":2703.56,"body":"like a reaction progressions,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2703.96,"endTime":2708.8,"body":"which is interesting because we worked on"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2703.96,"endTime":2708.8,"body":"reaction progressions for you and I pointed"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2708.8,"endTime":2712.61,"body":"them out for like maybe the first 25% of the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2708.8,"endTime":2712.61,"body":"book."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2712.61,"endTime":2718.57,"body":"And we reached a part where we were like, we"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2712.61,"endTime":2718.57,"body":"know that putting physical Reactions on the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2718.57,"endTime":2721.41,"body":"page needs to happen,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2721.89,"endTime":2723.81,"body":"but that's not a line."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2723.89,"endTime":2724.69,"body":"That's not important,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2725.41,"endTime":2725.81,"body":"really."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2725.97,"endTime":2726.37,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2726.53,"endTime":2731.33,"body":"So we also hit a point where we knew that a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2726.53,"endTime":2731.33,"body":"skill needed to come or not a skill."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2731.89,"endTime":2734.41,"body":"We knew that, like, a piece of the story"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2731.89,"endTime":2734.41,"body":"needed to come."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2734.41,"endTime":2738.1,"body":"But, like, in the time that you were writing"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2734.41,"endTime":2738.1,"body":"it, it was so unimportant."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2738.1,"endTime":2743.22,"body":"It doesn't matter that Sebastian's heart's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2738.1,"endTime":2743.22,"body":"racing versus, like, that's not on the page."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2743.22,"endTime":2743.54,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2743.62,"endTime":2746.06,"body":"So we put a lot of placeholders to be like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2746.06,"endTime":2748.42,"body":"okay, you're going to come back to that later,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2748.74,"endTime":2751.22,"body":"because you understand that it needs to be"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2748.74,"endTime":2751.22,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2751.22,"endTime":2752.82,"body":"We need to feel it and see it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2752.979,"endTime":2754.58,"body":"But right now, as we're writing it,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2754.98,"endTime":2755.46,"body":"it's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2755.46,"endTime":2756.34,"body":"It's meaningless."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2756.66,"endTime":2757.66,"body":"Yeah. Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2757.66,"endTime":2759.3,"body":"Those things are so easy to add in."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2759.3,"endTime":2759.86,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2760.42,"endTime":2762.5,"body":"Later, like, once, you know, they"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2760.42,"endTime":2762.5,"body":"belong there."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2763.02,"endTime":2764.02,"body":"And what I've noticed."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2764.02,"endTime":2765.58,"body":"What I noticed, and I think that was this was"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2765.58,"endTime":2769.26,"body":"the point where we decided to just, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2765.58,"endTime":2769.26,"body":"put all the TKs in there for physical"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2769.26,"endTime":2770.1,"body":"reactions is that."},{"speaker":"Sam 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Cameron","startTime":2784.42,"endTime":2785.18,"body":"I'm in this situation."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2785.18,"endTime":2787.58,"body":"I'm embodying the situation with my character."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2787.98,"endTime":2789.94,"body":"And that's assuming that I'm not, like, so in"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2787.98,"endTime":2789.94,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2789.94,"endTime":2790.46,"body":"That I'm not."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2790.78,"endTime":2792.46,"body":"That I'm just, like, with the character,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2793.1,"endTime":2795.82,"body":"that I'm actually consciously still having Sam"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2793.1,"endTime":2795.82,"body":"thoughts."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2797.18,"endTime":2801.26,"body":"And I'm like, okay, if I'm in this situation"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2797.18,"endTime":2801.26,"body":"and imagining being in the situation, where in"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2801.26,"endTime":2802.7,"body":"my body, do I feel that?"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2801.26,"endTime":2802.7,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2802.7,"endTime":2804.14,"body":"Well, everyone's bodies are different."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2804.46,"endTime":2808.78,"body":"So I feel everything in my stomach or my"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2804.46,"endTime":2808.78,"body":"chest."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2809.02,"endTime":2812.54,"body":"So my early drafts, that's where my characters"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2809.02,"endTime":2812.54,"body":"feel all their feelings, too."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2812.54,"endTime":2815.5,"body":"And I forget about things like sweating and,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2816.94,"endTime":2818.7,"body":"you know, whatever else it is that people do."},{"speaker":"Sam 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drafts, have a lot of going to"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2851.3,"endTime":2857.54,"body":"coffee shops or bars or eating, because, like,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2857.54,"endTime":2861.22,"body":"if people are eating and drinking, they have"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2857.54,"endTime":2861.22,"body":"props that they."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2861.22,"endTime":2863.62,"body":"Can use for doing that, writing like a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2861.22,"endTime":2863.62,"body":"family."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2863.62,"endTime":2867.86,"body":"Just in my books, there's always these family"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2863.62,"endTime":2867.86,"body":"meetings, and they always happen over the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2867.86,"endTime":2868.54,"body":"dinner table."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2868.84,"endTime":2870.44,"body":"And that's fine for, like."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2870.44,"endTime":2870.92,"body":"Yeah, that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2870.92,"endTime":2872.48,"body":"That actually often happens, but it's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2872.48,"endTime":2875.04,"body":"It's the exact same reason it's only happening"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2875.04,"endTime":2878.48,"body":"at the dinner table, because otherwise, they"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2875.04,"endTime":2878.48,"body":"would all be sitting around a couch doing"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2878.48,"endTime":2878.92,"body":"nothing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2879.16,"endTime":2880.44,"body":"So they have to be doing."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2880.44,"endTime":2881.48,"body":"They have to be doing something."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2881.48,"endTime":2881.84,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2881.84,"endTime":2882.44,"body":"And, like, I was."},{"speaker":"Sam 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good physical"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2899.63,"endTime":2900.11,"body":"condition."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2901.63,"endTime":2904.67,"body":"And so I was just like, okay, we're just gonna"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2901.63,"endTime":2904.67,"body":"pretend."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2904.75,"endTime":2908.47,"body":"Just gonna pretend that that doesn't matter"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2904.75,"endTime":2908.47,"body":"for the purpose of this book, because it's"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2908.47,"endTime":2913.19,"body":"convenient if someone has a pint of beer that"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2908.47,"endTime":2913.19,"body":"they can be fiddling with while we're having"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2913.19,"endTime":2913.87,"body":"this conversation."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2914.11,"endTime":2914.75,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2914.91,"endTime":2917.31,"body":"But when we were drafting it, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2918.03,"endTime":2920.99,"body":"it wasn't important to me that you had the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2918.03,"endTime":2920.99,"body":"right thing on the page."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2920.99,"endTime":2922.19,"body":"It was important to me that, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2922.86,"endTime":2925.58,"body":"you could understand why that would."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2925.58,"endTime":2927.22,"body":"Needed to be there, and then later, you can"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2927.22,"endTime":2927.7,"body":"fill it in."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2927.7,"endTime":2928.46,"body":"I mean, like, my."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2929.1,"endTime":2930.94,"body":"I'm sure you feel the same way with your"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2929.1,"endTime":2930.94,"body":"clients."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2930.94,"endTime":2934.06,"body":"Like, our goal as coaches is not to help our"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2930.94,"endTime":2934.06,"body":"clients write a perfect book."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2934.22,"endTime":2939.42,"body":"Our goal is to teach our clients how to get"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2934.22,"endTime":2939.42,"body":"the book where they want it to be, whether"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2939.42,"endTime":2942.1,"body":"that is right now or, like, in a couple months"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2939.42,"endTime":2942.1,"body":"from now."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2942.1,"endTime":2945.74,"body":"Because all you needed was."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2946.38,"endTime":2948.22,"body":"I. I don't even think I had to."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2948.9,"endTime":2951.46,"body":"I didn't have to teach you what reaction"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2948.9,"endTime":2951.46,"body":"progressions were."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2951.46,"endTime":2954.86,"body":"I just was like, we need a physical reaction"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2951.46,"endTime":2954.86,"body":"here because of these reasons."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2954.86,"endTime":2955.78,"body":"And you're like, yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2955.86,"endTime":2957.58,"body":"And then we had this exact conversation."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2957.58,"endTime":2958.82,"body":"We were like, it's not important."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2958.82,"endTime":2959.62,"body":"We'll do it later."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2959.62,"endTime":2960.9,"body":"But then we just kept."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2961.06,"endTime":2963.02,"body":"We, like, kept an eye on it, and we."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2963.02,"endTime":2966.9,"body":"We started to do, like, TK Physical reaction"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2963.02,"endTime":2966.9,"body":"or, like, yeah, TK Something else."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2966.9,"endTime":2967.54,"body":"And that's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2967.7,"endTime":2970.14,"body":"That's fine, because to me, that demonstrates"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2970.14,"endTime":2973.22,"body":"a knowledge where I know you're thinking about"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2970.14,"endTime":2973.22,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2973.46,"endTime":2980.28,"body":"I don't care that you have the exact sweat on"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2973.46,"endTime":2980.28,"body":"the brow that you want to have, because my."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2980.28,"endTime":2980.92,"body":"My characters."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2980.92,"endTime":2981.4,"body":"The only,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2982.28,"endTime":2984.6,"body":"like, reactions they ever have are heart"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2982.28,"endTime":2984.6,"body":"racing."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2984.6,"endTime":2986.2,"body":"So, yeah, There's a lot of heart"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2984.6,"endTime":2986.2,"body":"racing."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2986.28,"endTime":2987.64,"body":"Lots of heart racing in."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2988.12,"endTime":2989.24,"body":"Lots of gasping."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2989.4,"endTime":2991.56,"body":"Yeah, I gotta go back and change that."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2991.56,"endTime":2993.44,"body":"But, yeah, there's lots of"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2991.56,"endTime":2993.44,"body":"clenching."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":2993.44,"endTime":2994.2,"body":"Fist clenching."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2994.44,"endTime":2995.64,"body":"Lots of fist clenching."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2995.96,"endTime":2997.32,"body":"Lots of eyes narrowing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2997.72,"endTime":2999.72,"body":"My characters narrow their eyes all the time."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3000.04,"endTime":3001.64,"body":"Mine. Mine do a lot of eyebrow"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3000.04,"endTime":3001.64,"body":"work."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3001.72,"endTime":3002.2,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3003.14,"endTime":3003.62,"body":"But, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3004.1,"endTime":3006.42,"body":"the skills development is just about."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3008.02,"endTime":3012.9,"body":"The first draft is not the place to worry"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3008.02,"endTime":3012.9,"body":"about it being everything lined up."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3012.98,"endTime":3015.22,"body":"The first draft is just the place to think"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3012.98,"endTime":3015.22,"body":"about."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3015.54,"endTime":3017.14,"body":"I'm practicing new things."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3017.22,"endTime":3019.5,"body":"I'm trying to understand all these pieces and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3019.5,"endTime":3020.34,"body":"how they fit together."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3020.66,"endTime":3022.02,"body":"And at the same time,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3022.5,"endTime":3022.9,"body":"like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3023.54,"endTime":3025.34,"body":"we've already talked about scene structure."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3025.34,"endTime":3026.78,"body":"We've already talked about internal"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3026.78,"endTime":3027.3,"body":"processing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3027.3,"endTime":3028.46,"body":"Now we're talking about this."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3028.46,"endTime":3031.06,"body":"And every single time that you approach a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3028.46,"endTime":3031.06,"body":"scene,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3031.72,"endTime":3033.32,"body":"you're trying to do all those things at once."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3034.6,"endTime":3036.84,"body":"It's much more effective if you layer them"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3034.6,"endTime":3036.84,"body":"together."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3037.48,"endTime":3040.52,"body":"Yeah. And revisions happen in"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3037.48,"endTime":3040.52,"body":"layers, too."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3040.76,"endTime":3047.12,"body":"So we're working on these revisions right now"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3040.76,"endTime":3047.12,"body":"where we're skipping ahead a little bit."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3047.12,"endTime":3050.08,"body":"But spoiler alert, I got the draft."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3050.08,"endTime":3053.48,"body":"I wrote the book that was most of then the"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3053.48,"endTime":3062.37,"body":"second set of art I drafted basically between"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3053.48,"endTime":3062.37,"body":"June of 2024 and November of 2024."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3063.73,"endTime":3069.65,"body":"And then Rachel and I together did several"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3063.73,"endTime":3069.65,"body":"revision passes between,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3071.01,"endTime":3074.29,"body":"Like, I took some time off away from the book."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3074.29,"endTime":3076.61,"body":"And then we did several revision passes"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3076.61,"endTime":3080.45,"body":"between November, December of 2024,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3081.09,"endTime":3083.81,"body":"and April, late April of 2025."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3084.13,"endTime":3089.05,"body":"And then I pitched to my agent in not really"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3084.13,"endTime":3089.05,"body":"expecting anything to come of it."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3089.05,"endTime":3093.21,"body":"Like, I still thought actually we were going"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3089.05,"endTime":3093.21,"body":"to be doing more revisions before it got"},{"speaker":"Sam 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have all this feedback from my agent and"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3110.29,"endTime":3116.28,"body":"then also from my beta readers,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3117.0,"endTime":3121.36,"body":"which also, very conveniently, the things that"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3117.0,"endTime":3121.36,"body":"the agent said aligned with stuff that the"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3121.36,"endTime":3122.32,"body":"beta readers had said."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3122.32,"endTime":3124.4,"body":"And that was a really useful litmus test for"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3124.4,"endTime":3129.32,"body":"me about whether or not she was a good fit."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3129.48,"endTime":3131.4,"body":"Something else Rachel helped me to figure out."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3132.52,"endTime":3135.0,"body":"We had a conversation about, what are the red"},{"speaker":"Sam 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really,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3151.86,"endTime":3156.34,"body":"really cool because we spent time together on"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3151.86,"endTime":3156.34,"body":"your pitch and your query."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3156.42,"endTime":3156.82,"body":"Oh, that."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3156.82,"endTime":3157.46,"body":"Yeah, that too."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3157.78,"endTime":3158.9,"body":"I also worked on the Pitch."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3158.98,"endTime":3159.94,"body":"Yeah. And that was."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3160.9,"endTime":3163.38,"body":"I think we spent, like, three weeks doing it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3163.38,"endTime":3165.38,"body":"Yeah, a little bit each week."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3165.46,"endTime":3165.94,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3166.1,"endTime":3167.94,"body":"Doing it together was a blast."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3168.28,"endTime":3171.32,"body":"Oh, it was so much better than,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3168.28,"endTime":3171.32,"body":"like, the time I've written pitches by myself."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3171.56,"endTime":3172.12,"body":"Yes,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3172.52,"endTime":3173.96,"body":"it was so much more fun."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3174.12,"endTime":3175.8,"body":"I mean, there was one time where I was 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because of,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3195.09,"endTime":3195.49,"body":"again,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3195.89,"endTime":3197.49,"body":"going back to us aligning."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3197.49,"endTime":3199.37,"body":"Like, just from the moment I heard about the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3199.37,"endTime":3202.37,"body":"story, I was like, this is going to be sold so"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3199.37,"endTime":3202.37,"body":"easy."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3202.37,"endTime":3203.97,"body":"Like, this is going to be picked up."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3204.29,"endTime":3205.49,"body":"Everyone's going to want it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3205.57,"endTime":3206.93,"body":"Yes, I want it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3208.37,"endTime":3212.21,"body":"So my belief was, like, 110% that that 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Cameron","startTime":3353.08,"endTime":3357.61,"body":"anytime I'm reading through the draft to,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3357.61,"endTime":3359.65,"body":"like, look for these places to make these"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3357.61,"endTime":3359.65,"body":"changes."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3360.21,"endTime":3363.49,"body":"It's so nice to not be trying to think about"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3360.21,"endTime":3363.49,"body":"everything all at once."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3363.57,"endTime":3364.05,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3364.29,"endTime":3365.69,"body":"So it's like, I might."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3365.69,"endTime":3367.57,"body":"If I see something that's like, oh, this is a"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3367.57,"endTime":3368.45,"body":"change, I knew I have to."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3368.45,"endTime":3371.01,"body":"I have to make, I figured out one sentence I"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3371.01,"endTime":3373.89,"body":"can put here to make it, or, like, this is"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3371.01,"endTime":3373.89,"body":"something I can cut,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3374.61,"endTime":3375.57,"body":"then I just do it."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3375.89,"endTime":3378.81,"body":"But I'm not, like, constantly thinking about"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3375.89,"endTime":3378.81,"body":"all the things I need to do."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3378.81,"endTime":3382.93,"body":"It's just like, okay, here's the one concern"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3378.81,"endTime":3382.93,"body":"we have right now."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3383.53,"endTime":3385.85,"body":"I'm gonna just deal with that, and then we're"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3383.53,"endTime":3385.85,"body":"gonna deal with the next one."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3386.25,"endTime":3389.05,"body":"And it's that same sort of layering of, like,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3386.25,"endTime":3389.05,"body":"when we were drafting."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3389.05,"endTime":3390.93,"body":"It's like, we're gonna worry about this part"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3389.05,"endTime":3390.93,"body":"first."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3390.93,"endTime":3394.97,"body":"And now that we feel good about this part, as"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3390.93,"endTime":3394.97,"body":"I draft forward, we're gonna worry about this"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3394.97,"endTime":3395.53,"body":"other thing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3395.77,"endTime":3397.13,"body":"Yes. It's impossible."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3397.21,"endTime":3398.25,"body":"I won't say impossible."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3398.25,"endTime":3401.85,"body":"I think it's incredibly challenging to go,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3402.81,"endTime":3408.01,"body":"like, scene by scene and put in every single"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3402.81,"endTime":3408.01,"body":"thing that you're gonna change all at once."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3408.41,"endTime":3408.85,"body":"It's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3409.48,"endTime":3410.56,"body":"I think it's unrealistic."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3410.56,"endTime":3411.76,"body":"I think it takes a lot of time."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3411.76,"endTime":3412.52,"body":"I think it, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3413.48,"endTime":3415.08,"body":"slows your role, I guess."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3415.08,"endTime":3416.76,"body":"Like, it's it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3416.84,"endTime":3418.2,"body":"And I also think you don't."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3418.36,"endTime":3420.72,"body":"Because all the parts of a book inform one"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3420.72,"endTime":3421.0,"body":"another."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3421.64,"endTime":3426.0,"body":"I do think that, like, that would have been"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3421.64,"endTime":3426.0,"body":"really difficult to do specifically in your"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3426.0,"endTime":3428.28,"body":"situation because of the way that, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3428.68,"endTime":3433.6,"body":"you know, the different parts of Sebastian and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3428.68,"endTime":3433.6,"body":"Viola's story impact the different parts of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3433.6,"endTime":3434.28,"body":"Liv's story."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3434.28,"endTime":3436.98,"body":"And, like, kind of doing one at a time helped"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3436.98,"endTime":3437.98,"body":"us make decisions."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3438.06,"endTime":3440.02,"body":"If you're trying to do it all at once, it just"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3440.02,"endTime":3441.5,"body":"would have felt incredibly overwhelming."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3441.5,"endTime":3442.22,"body":"It would have been."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3443.26,"endTime":3446.22,"body":"It's not even that you're making a lot of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3443.26,"endTime":3446.22,"body":"changes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3446.22,"endTime":3448.78,"body":"I just feel like it's Too many parts to hold."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3448.94,"endTime":3449.42,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3449.42,"endTime":3450.22,"body":"At one time."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3450.94,"endTime":3452.62,"body":"Yeah. And also, I mean, the."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3454.06,"endTime":3457.94,"body":"So the other thing that I think sometimes"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3454.06,"endTime":3457.94,"body":"writers can get really stuck on when they're"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3457.94,"endTime":3459.42,"body":"drafting is wanting."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3460.22,"endTime":3464.85,"body":"Wanting to feel, like, very confident in what"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3460.22,"endTime":3464.85,"body":"they have drafted before they move on."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3465.89,"endTime":3470.65,"body":"And one of the experiences that we had with"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3465.89,"endTime":3470.65,"body":"this book that really helped me shift my"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3470.65,"endTime":3476.77,"body":"mindset on this is there was this whole plot"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3470.65,"endTime":3476.77,"body":"line that we started out in the draft where"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3478.45,"endTime":3483.21,"body":"the characters are trying to convince another"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3478.45,"endTime":3483.21,"body":"character who's retired to come out of"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3483.21,"endTime":3485.09,"body":"retirement to join the team."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3485.57,"endTime":3488.69,"body":"And I was writing a bunch of the scenes that"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3485.57,"endTime":3488.69,"body":"went with that,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3489.33,"endTime":3490.45,"body":"that sort of plot arc."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3491.97,"endTime":3496.29,"body":"And there were several scenes there that I was"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3491.97,"endTime":3496.29,"body":"like, this just isn't really working."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3497.01,"endTime":3499.69,"body":"Like, I'm having a hard time embodying this"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3497.01,"endTime":3499.69,"body":"scene."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3499.69,"endTime":3501.09,"body":"Like, I'm just not getting there."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3501.33,"endTime":3502.89,"body":"And what we ended up doing was just, like,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3502.89,"endTime":3505.33,"body":"leaving a bunch of bullet points and moving"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3502.89,"endTime":3505.33,"body":"on."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3505.41,"endTime":3509.09,"body":"Like, I could visualize well enough what"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3505.41,"endTime":3509.09,"body":"needed to happen in that scene that I didn't"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3509.09,"endTime":3510.53,"body":"need to write it to move on."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3510.53,"endTime":3511.93,"body":"And it ended up being, like, a really good"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3511.93,"endTime":3515.61,"body":"thing that I didn't spend a ton of time"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3511.93,"endTime":3515.61,"body":"agonizing over making that scene, like,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3515.61,"endTime":3516.405,"body":"perfect on the page."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3516.405,"endTime":3518.99,"body":"But because we cut that whole arc, it's not in"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3516.405,"endTime":3518.99,"body":"the book."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3520.03,"endTime":3520.67,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3520.91,"endTime":3522.91,"body":"Once again, it doesn't need to be"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3520.91,"endTime":3522.91,"body":"in the book."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3523.31,"endTime":3525.87,"body":"Yeah. And, like, once again, I think"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3523.31,"endTime":3525.87,"body":"your gut tells you something."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3526.43,"endTime":3527.15,"body":"And, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3527.71,"endTime":3528.11,"body":"I."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3528.59,"endTime":3533.51,"body":"I think there is a really, like, a benefit to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3528.59,"endTime":3533.51,"body":"doing it, to see it done, to, like, feel."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3533.51,"endTime":3535.79,"body":"To, like, muddy through the discomfort."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3535.79,"endTime":3536.59,"body":"That's what I'm saying."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3536.59,"endTime":3536.87,"body":"Of."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3536.87,"endTime":3537.23,"body":"Of."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3538.03,"endTime":3539.67,"body":"You know, we had to write the bullet points."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3539.67,"endTime":3541.47,"body":"We needed to see the ark through."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3541.63,"endTime":3545.46,"body":"Like, we had to get that down in whatever mess"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3541.63,"endTime":3545.46,"body":"it looked like."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3545.46,"endTime":3546.94,"body":"But we weren't like, oh, if."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3546.94,"endTime":3548.34,"body":"If I just made it perfect,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3548.74,"endTime":3554.38,"body":"then, like, I would feel really, like, why"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3548.74,"endTime":3554.38,"body":"don't I just struggle right here until it"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3554.38,"endTime":3557.3,"body":"feels good?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3554.38,"endTime":3557.3,"body":"It was like, well, if it doesn't feel good,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3557.38,"endTime":3559.78,"body":"just do what makes sense and then move on."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3559.94,"endTime":3560.3,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3560.3,"endTime":3564.3,"body":"Because we'll come back to it later"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3560.3,"endTime":3564.3,"body":"and probably have more answers or more"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3564.3,"endTime":3564.82,"body":"clarity."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3564.98,"endTime":3567.86,"body":"And there were actually several"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3564.98,"endTime":3567.86,"body":"times where sometimes the answer was just"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3567.86,"endTime":3570.82,"body":"cutting the scene entirely or the arc"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3567.86,"endTime":3570.82,"body":"entirely."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3570.82,"endTime":3575.5,"body":"And then there were, I think, a few other"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3570.82,"endTime":3575.5,"body":"times where I kind of remember deciding to"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3575.5,"endTime":3578.66,"body":"move ahead with, like, this is a chapter I'm"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3575.5,"endTime":3578.66,"body":"having a hard time with."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3579.38,"endTime":3582.46,"body":"I already write out of order, like, as part of"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3579.38,"endTime":3582.46,"body":"a natural part of my process."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3582.46,"endTime":3585.9,"body":"So we're just gonna skip the scene, and we're"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3582.46,"endTime":3585.9,"body":"gonna come back to it, and maybe there's Some"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3585.9,"endTime":3589.62,"body":"answers that I got writing a later scene that"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3585.9,"endTime":3589.62,"body":"helped me go back,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3590.82,"endTime":3592.98,"body":"you know, and fill in that other scene."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3593.22,"endTime":3596.77,"body":"And I feel like every single time we"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3593.22,"endTime":3596.77,"body":"found the answers."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3597.01,"endTime":3597.49,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3597.97,"endTime":3598.85,"body":"It's not like we."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3599.57,"endTime":3601.25,"body":"They didn't come, you know."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3601.49,"endTime":3605.49,"body":"Yeah. So you don't have to worry"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3601.49,"endTime":3605.49,"body":"if you are in that situation and you're like,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3606.13,"endTime":3607.49,"body":"but I will never be able."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3607.49,"endTime":3609.21,"body":"Because I have definitely seen some people are"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3609.21,"endTime":3612.85,"body":"like, you can't possibly like move on if you"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3609.21,"endTime":3612.85,"body":"don't know everything."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3613.33,"endTime":3614.05,"body":"It's okay."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3614.45,"endTime":3615.17,"body":"It's okay."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3615.17,"endTime":3615.77,"body":"It's okay."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3615.77,"endTime":3616.29,"body":"You can."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3616.77,"endTime":3617.97,"body":"I think people are."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3619.17,"endTime":3621.01,"body":"It's not that they don't know how to move on."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3621.17,"endTime":3623.93,"body":"It's that they're just very frightened of the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3623.93,"endTime":3624.45,"body":"unknown."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3625.19,"endTime":3627.67,"body":"And. And it takes a lot of self trust to move"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3625.19,"endTime":3627.67,"body":"on."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3627.83,"endTime":3628.63,"body":"To be like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3629.03,"endTime":3631.67,"body":"I'm going to come back to this later."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3632.63,"endTime":3633.75,"body":"I don't like it now."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3633.99,"endTime":3638.35,"body":"Yeah. That was the other biggest"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3633.99,"endTime":3638.35,"body":"thing that I got out of coaching was that self"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3638.35,"endTime":3639.59,"body":"rebuilding my self trust."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3639.59,"endTime":3642.63,"body":"Like I think I. As an earlier in my writing"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3642.79,"endTime":3643.35,"body":"career,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3644.63,"endTime":3646.63,"body":"I say career, I was probably a teenager."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3647.19,"endTime":3648.15,"body":"This part I'm talking about."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3648.15,"endTime":3648.35,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3648.35,"endTime":3649.99,"body":"You know, like as a teenager you're kind of."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3650.64,"endTime":3653.2,"body":"So not all teenagers, but some teenagers are"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3650.64,"endTime":3653.2,"body":"very fearless about things."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3653.52,"endTime":3653.8,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3653.8,"endTime":3654.72,"body":"You don't know what you don't"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3653.8,"endTime":3654.72,"body":"know."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3654.72,"endTime":3655.88,"body":"So that's how I was about writing."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3655.88,"endTime":3657.84,"body":"I was, you know, like, I definitely wasn't"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3657.84,"endTime":3662.48,"body":"doing like super risky teen stuff, but like I"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3657.84,"endTime":3662.48,"body":"was pretty fearless about writing or acting."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3662.48,"endTime":3666.32,"body":"Like I could improvise a scene,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3666.72,"endTime":3671.16,"body":"I could like write and I wasn't doing a whole"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3666.72,"endTime":3671.16,"body":"lot of like, I didn't have a whole lot of self"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3671.16,"endTime":3673.68,"body":"doubt about what I was writing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3673.76,"endTime":3674.24,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3674.48,"endTime":3678.62,"body":"And then once I started to"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3674.48,"endTime":3678.62,"body":"actually like move into this, this phase of"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3678.62,"endTime":3682.14,"body":"wanting to do it professionally and like"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3678.62,"endTime":3682.14,"body":"wanting to have an audience,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3682.94,"endTime":3683.66,"body":"that's when."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3683.66,"endTime":3686.02,"body":"And then taking in all the stuff that's"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3686.02,"endTime":3687.3,"body":"supposed to help me learn and get better."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3687.3,"endTime":3687.98,"body":"Which did."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3688.78,"endTime":3692.66,"body":"But also like made me start to think like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3688.78,"endTime":3692.66,"body":"here's this thing that I'm not good at yet."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3692.66,"endTime":3693.9,"body":"Or like I don't know how to do yet."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3695.18,"endTime":3700.86,"body":"And getting in my head about that and also not"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3695.18,"endTime":3700.86,"body":"trusting that I would actually do the work."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3702.7,"endTime":3705.02,"body":"Which I think is something you and Emily have"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3702.7,"endTime":3705.02,"body":"talked about before."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3705.18,"endTime":3705.58,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3705.58,"endTime":3707.26,"body":"And I see it with a lot of writers, right."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3707.26,"endTime":3712.2,"body":"You come up with all these structures of I"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3707.26,"endTime":3712.2,"body":"have to make myself write or I'm never going"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3712.2,"endTime":3712.68,"body":"to write."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3712.68,"endTime":3716.08,"body":"And it was so earth shattering when I was"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3712.68,"endTime":3716.08,"body":"like, what if I just trusted that I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3716.08,"endTime":3717.76,"body":"do it because I want to do it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3718.0,"endTime":3718.4,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3718.4,"endTime":3720.0,"body":"And stopped Making myself."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3720.4,"endTime":3724.879,"body":"And that was huge because now I don't actually"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3724.879,"endTime":3726.4,"body":"have a set writing schedule."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3726.56,"endTime":3727.12,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3727.36,"endTime":3727.76,"body":"Like,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3728.08,"endTime":3732.28,"body":"I don't say, like, okay, this is my writing"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3728.08,"endTime":3732.28,"body":"time, and I'm going to write during these"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3732.28,"endTime":3733.44,"body":"times and only this time."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3734.08,"endTime":3735.88,"body":"And if I don't, then I have failed."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3735.88,"endTime":3736.4,"body":"I just,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3737.32,"endTime":3741.2,"body":"When I, like, actually look for the time in"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3737.32,"endTime":3741.2,"body":"the day and then the week when I can do it"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3741.2,"endTime":3742.04,"body":"because I want to."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3742.28,"endTime":3743.0,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3743.08,"endTime":3743.84,"body":"Because you want to."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3743.84,"endTime":3745.24,"body":"And you're gonna do what you wanna do."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3745.48,"endTime":3746.12,"body":"I, I,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3746.76,"endTime":3752.839,"body":"this is why I think mindset matters so much,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3746.76,"endTime":3752.839,"body":"is because I don't think people worry about"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3753.56,"endTime":3756.28,"body":"wanting to be a writer and having enough time"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3753.56,"endTime":3756.28,"body":"to write."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3756.28,"endTime":3760.96,"body":"And like, oh, I don't think people agonize"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3756.28,"endTime":3760.96,"body":"over finding time to write unless they want to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3760.96,"endTime":3761.32,"body":"write."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3761.4,"endTime":3761.8,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3761.8,"endTime":3766.49,"body":"And then when you have these other"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3761.8,"endTime":3766.49,"body":"things that get in the way or like, I don't, I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3766.49,"endTime":3770.09,"body":"guess I should say I don't think people"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3766.49,"endTime":3770.09,"body":"agonize over having a structure to their"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3770.09,"endTime":3772.73,"body":"process unless they want to write."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3772.89,"endTime":3773.33,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3773.33,"endTime":3777.69,"body":"So the fear that, like, well, if I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3773.33,"endTime":3777.69,"body":"don't put rules about it, I'm not going to do"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3777.69,"endTime":3777.89,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3777.89,"endTime":3778.41,"body":"I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3779.37,"endTime":3780.01,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3780.01,"endTime":3781.13,"body":"Because I think you want to."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3781.29,"endTime":3784.89,"body":"Otherwise we wouldn't be, you wouldn't be"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3781.29,"endTime":3784.89,"body":"listening to this if you didn't want to."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3785.13,"endTime":3785.69,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3785.77,"endTime":3791.18,"body":"So then it's about removing the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3785.77,"endTime":3791.18,"body":"barriers that block you from that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3791.66,"endTime":3793.1,"body":"Some of that's practical."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3793.18,"endTime":3793.46,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3793.46,"endTime":3796.06,"body":"Like, we have obligations throughout our day."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3796.7,"endTime":3797.34,"body":"Bummer."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3797.58,"endTime":3800.46,"body":"But the other part is, like, when you sit"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3800.46,"endTime":3804.739,"body":"down, if there's anything that's telling you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3800.46,"endTime":3804.739,"body":"this isn't going to be good enough, or you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3804.739,"endTime":3808.42,"body":"don't know what you're doing, or you're never"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3804.739,"endTime":3808.42,"body":"going to figure it out, or you're a piece of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3808.42,"endTime":3808.66,"body":"shit."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3808.66,"endTime":3809.58,"body":"You know, like all those things."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3809.58,"endTime":3809.98,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3810.78,"endTime":3812.7,"body":"Those are the things where you're"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3810.78,"endTime":3812.7,"body":"like, why don't we,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3813.02,"endTime":3813.94,"body":"let's get rid of those."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3813.94,"endTime":3816.14,"body":"If we can get rid of those, then it is fun."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3816.73,"endTime":3819.21,"body":"You do just show up whenever you want."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3819.21,"endTime":3820.81,"body":"And then you write books like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3821.21,"endTime":3821.93,"body":"here you are."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3822.01,"endTime":3824.41,"body":"Not that it gets fun a hundred"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3822.01,"endTime":3824.41,"body":"percent of the time."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3824.81,"endTime":3825.21,"body":"Like,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3825.61,"endTime":3827.61,"body":"there's gonna be days when it's not."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3828.25,"endTime":3834.09,"body":"But I've been having so much more fun writing"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3828.25,"endTime":3834.09,"body":"since I started to trust myself to do the"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3834.09,"endTime":3839.05,"body":"writing and not, like, bully myself into"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3834.09,"endTime":3839.05,"body":"writing and getting better and stuff."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3840.49,"endTime":3843.66,"body":"That it's like, it's just so much a better"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3840.49,"endTime":3843.66,"body":"experience."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3843.66,"endTime":3846.3,"body":"And because it's a better experience, I'm"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3843.66,"endTime":3846.3,"body":"going to keep doing it."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3846.54,"endTime":3847.42,"body":"As opposed to,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3847.82,"endTime":3850.62,"body":"like, you kind of, you kind of can get into"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3847.82,"endTime":3850.62,"body":"this cycle of."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3851.1,"endTime":3854.78,"body":"Because you make the, because the, the"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3851.1,"endTime":3854.78,"body":"experience is so unpleasant because of all the"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3854.78,"endTime":3855.26,"body":"pressure."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3855.66,"endTime":3856.22,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3856.78,"endTime":3857.86,"body":"Then you don't want to do it."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3857.86,"endTime":3859.06,"body":"And then you're like, well, I need to make"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3859.06,"endTime":3860.62,"body":"myself do it because I'm not doing it."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3862.62,"endTime":3863.82,"body":"So. Yeah, that self trust,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3864.7,"endTime":3870.67,"body":"you know, the self trust that I would write,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3864.7,"endTime":3870.67,"body":"the self trust that I have good instincts, the"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3870.67,"endTime":3874.67,"body":"self trust that I can do the process the way"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3870.67,"endTime":3874.67,"body":"that makes sense for me."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3875.71,"endTime":3876.71,"body":"That all like was."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3876.71,"endTime":3880.03,"body":"That's all what came with coaching and then"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3880.11,"endTime":3881.31,"body":"having a sounding board,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3882.03,"endTime":3882.99,"body":"having accountability."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3884.19,"endTime":3884.91,"body":"Oh, that's really important."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3884.91,"endTime":3888.59,"body":"You know, having someone to hype"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3884.91,"endTime":3888.59,"body":"me up, like, that's all what came from it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3888.75,"endTime":3893.07,"body":"I also remember, like you did a lot of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3888.75,"endTime":3893.07,"body":"personal work on resting."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3893.39,"endTime":3893.87,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3894.32,"endTime":3897.92,"body":"And like incorporating that into your"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3894.32,"endTime":3897.92,"body":"life and your process."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3898.32,"endTime":3900.8,"body":"Like, no, I need, I do rest."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3900.8,"endTime":3901.84,"body":"I want to rest."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3901.92,"endTime":3902.48,"body":"And that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3903.2,"endTime":3904.32,"body":"That paid off, right?"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3904.4,"endTime":3904.96,"body":"Yeah, it did."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3904.96,"endTime":3906.24,"body":"Yeah. So actually that was the other thing is"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3906.24,"endTime":3907.76,"body":"nuts about like this process."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3907.76,"endTime":3909.48,"body":"We were talking about how much we did and how"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3909.48,"endTime":3910.0,"body":"little time."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3910.4,"endTime":3917.0,"body":"I was also still teaching as a not full time,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3910.4,"endTime":3917.0,"body":"but pretty close to full time high school"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3917.0,"endTime":3924.24,"body":"teacher and running my coaching business and"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3917.0,"endTime":3924.24,"body":"my substack and teaching a creative writing"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3924.24,"endTime":3928.92,"body":"class at the community college and writing a"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3924.24,"endTime":3928.92,"body":"book."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3928.92,"endTime":3929.92,"body":"Like I was doing a lot."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3930.0,"endTime":3930.64,"body":"You're doing a lot."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3930.64,"endTime":3931.24,"body":"So much stuff."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3931.24,"endTime":3933.44,"body":"And I realized I was like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3934.0,"endTime":3940.48,"body":"if I take like a nap at 1 o' clock in the"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3934.0,"endTime":3940.48,"body":"afternoon every single day,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3941.2,"endTime":3944.92,"body":"I'm actually going to be more effective than"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3941.2,"endTime":3944.92,"body":"if I push through being sleepy in the"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3944.92,"endTime":3945.28,"body":"afternoon."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3945.36,"endTime":3945.92,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3946.9,"endTime":3947.22,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3947.22,"endTime":3947.54,"body":"I."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3948.02,"endTime":3951.62,"body":"This is so like this, this is a case study in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3948.02,"endTime":3951.62,"body":"and of itself."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3951.7,"endTime":3954.98,"body":"But like there we did intent."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3954.98,"endTime":3957.06,"body":"Like we talked a lot about rest and we talked"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3957.06,"endTime":3961.42,"body":"a lot about making sure that you were able to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3957.06,"endTime":3961.42,"body":"replenish your energy levels because you are"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3961.42,"endTime":3962.78,"body":"doing so much."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3962.78,"endTime":3965.06,"body":"And now looking back at it, I'm like, dang."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3965.06,"endTime":3966.42,"body":"I don't feel like we hustled,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3966.82,"endTime":3968.26,"body":"you know, Like, I know you worked."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3968.42,"endTime":3969.86,"body":"I know you worked really hard."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3970.1,"endTime":3971.62,"body":"And that's why I think there's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3972.67,"endTime":3975.15,"body":"Working hard does not have to equal,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3975.63,"endTime":3977.51,"body":"you know, killing yourself with."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3977.51,"endTime":3978.71,"body":"Yeah. Or burning out."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3978.71,"endTime":3979.79,"body":"Burning out, exactly."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3979.95,"endTime":3981.15,"body":"Like just burning out."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3981.15,"endTime":3982.87,"body":"Working hard does not have to equal burning"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3981.15,"endTime":3982.87,"body":"out."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3982.87,"endTime":3988.19,"body":"Because I think what you chose to incorporate"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3982.87,"endTime":3988.19,"body":"very intentional periods of rest and it"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3988.19,"endTime":3991.79,"body":"allowed you to do more than if you had not"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":3988.19,"endTime":3991.79,"body":"rested."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3992.11,"endTime":3993.15,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3993.15,"endTime":3996.47,"body":"Because again, like there was definitely there"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3996.47,"endTime":3999.75,"body":"would occasionally be times where I was like,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3996.47,"endTime":3999.75,"body":"I'm actually not tired, I don't need to take a"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3999.75,"endTime":3999.99,"body":"nap."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":3999.99,"endTime":4001.79,"body":"But most of the time it's like I was getting"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4001.79,"endTime":4004.47,"body":"home from school at like one o' clock in the"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4001.79,"endTime":4004.47,"body":"afternoon."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4004.87,"endTime":4006.87,"body":"And I would go take a nap."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4006.87,"endTime":4008.95,"body":"And there were days when that nap was 30"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4008.95,"endTime":4009.35,"body":"minutes."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4009.59,"endTime":4011.19,"body":"There were days when that nap was two hours,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4012.23,"endTime":4013.83,"body":"just depending on my energy level."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4013.83,"endTime":4016.95,"body":"And then I would do my second half of my day,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4017.91,"endTime":4019.83,"body":"you know, after I got up from my nap."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4021.67,"endTime":4025.51,"body":"And I was intentionally not doing a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4021.67,"endTime":4025.51,"body":"work on the weekends either."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4026.95,"endTime":4027.83,"body":"Like, I was."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4027.83,"endTime":4031.1,"body":"I would sometimes, if it felt fun,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4031.5,"endTime":4033.94,"body":"and I didn't have a lot of obligations."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4033.94,"endTime":4035.54,"body":"Like, I would just disappear into the book all"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4035.54,"endTime":4037.34,"body":"day on a Saturday and get a lot done."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4038.46,"endTime":4040.06,"body":"And then sometimes that just wasn't gonna"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4038.46,"endTime":4040.06,"body":"happen."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4040.06,"endTime":4040.38,"body":"Like."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4040.46,"endTime":4041.26,"body":"And that was fine."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4042.06,"endTime":4043.66,"body":"Yeah. Cause you still wanna, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4044.14,"endTime":4047.66,"body":"spend time with your wife and do things and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4044.14,"endTime":4047.66,"body":"have a good."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4048.46,"endTime":4050.38,"body":"You know, like, it doesn't have to be."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4051.34,"endTime":4051.98,"body":"I don't."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4052.78,"endTime":4055.26,"body":"I'm gonna say this for you, and then you tell"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4052.78,"endTime":4055.26,"body":"me if this is true."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4055.26,"endTime":4058.94,"body":"I don't think you filled every spare second of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4055.26,"endTime":4058.94,"body":"your life with writing."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4059.26,"endTime":4060.06,"body":"Oh, no, I did not."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4060.54,"endTime":4061.46,"body":"I absolutely did not."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4061.46,"endTime":4063.02,"body":"No, I. I totally did not."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4063.02,"endTime":4063.98,"body":"Like, there was still,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4065.18,"endTime":4066.54,"body":"like I said there was with the naps."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4067.26,"endTime":4068.94,"body":"There were plenty of times where,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4069.82,"endTime":4073.98,"body":"like, this time it didn't happen a ton, but"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4069.82,"endTime":4073.98,"body":"there were definitely times where it was like,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4074.62,"endTime":4076.7,"body":"okay, I'm just done for the day."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4076.7,"endTime":4078.86,"body":"It's only three o' clock, but I'm out, like,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4078.94,"endTime":4079.66,"body":"tapped out."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4079.82,"endTime":4081.26,"body":"I have nothing I have to do."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4081.26,"endTime":4083.1,"body":"Like, that has to happen the rest of the day."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4083.1,"endTime":4090.6,"body":"I'm gonna go, like, listen to my audiobook or,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4083.1,"endTime":4090.6,"body":"like, watch TV or spend the whole weekend on"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4090.6,"endTime":4091.08,"body":"the couch,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4092.52,"endTime":4094.12,"body":"you know, or, like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4094.68,"endTime":4096.2,"body":"actually, like, go hang out with my friends."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4097.4,"endTime":4098.92,"body":"So I. Yeah, I wasn't."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4099.16,"endTime":4104.24,"body":"I really wasn't sacrificing living my life to"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4104.24,"endTime":4104.92,"body":"write this book."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4105.08,"endTime":4110.04,"body":"Exactly. Which I think is really,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4105.08,"endTime":4110.04,"body":"like, that should."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4110.36,"endTime":4112.28,"body":"I want that to be everyone's experience?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4112.87,"endTime":4113.35,"body":"I want."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4113.35,"endTime":4115.51,"body":"Whether you're working with a coach or not, I."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4115.83,"endTime":4121.27,"body":"I firmly believe that you can accomplish"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4115.83,"endTime":4121.27,"body":"everything that you want to accomplish within"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4121.27,"endTime":4122.79,"body":"a reasonable time frame."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4123.35,"endTime":4127.91,"body":"If you're choosing to take care of yourself,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4123.35,"endTime":4127.91,"body":"if you're resting, if you're like."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4128.15,"endTime":4130.43,"body":"Like, the craft knowledge, as we've spoken"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4128.15,"endTime":4130.43,"body":"about, is."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4130.43,"endTime":4131.19,"body":"Is really important."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4131.27,"endTime":4134.11,"body":"But if you're also diving into the."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4134.11,"endTime":4137.03,"body":"The fears, the inner critic, all of those"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4134.11,"endTime":4137.03,"body":"things that,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4137.51,"endTime":4141.94,"body":"you know, seem like they're unimportant, but"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4137.51,"endTime":4141.94,"body":"really are the biggest pieces of this puzzle."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4142.42,"endTime":4144.7,"body":"When you take care of all those things and."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4144.7,"endTime":4146.9,"body":"And you remove all the barriers, like, whoa."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4146.9,"endTime":4150.5,"body":"You can do so much in such a short period of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4146.9,"endTime":4150.5,"body":"time."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4151.14,"endTime":4151.94,"body":"And not even."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4152.1,"endTime":4153.34,"body":"And you're not even hustling."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4153.34,"endTime":4154.34,"body":"You're not even, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4154.82,"endTime":4157.22,"body":"you've Just found harmony."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4157.62,"endTime":4158.1,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4158.58,"endTime":4160.42,"body":"Yeah. I think you found that we."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4160.66,"endTime":4162.26,"body":"The word is also balance."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4162.58,"endTime":4164.02,"body":"But we ha."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4164.02,"endTime":4166.9,"body":"We did a podcast episode with Corey Leger, who"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4166.9,"endTime":4168.37,"body":"is a. Is an acting coach,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4168.85,"endTime":4170.93,"body":"and she talked a lot about how, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4171.25,"endTime":4175.25,"body":"balance implies that everything's equal, and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4171.25,"endTime":4175.25,"body":"it's just not always equal."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4175.49,"endTime":4179.53,"body":"But if you have harmony, then, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4175.49,"endTime":4179.53,"body":"everything's working together as you want it"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4179.53,"endTime":4179.81,"body":"to."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4180.13,"endTime":4180.49,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4180.49,"endTime":4181.01,"body":"And I think that."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4181.01,"endTime":4181.81,"body":"Yeah, I like that."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4181.89,"endTime":4183.13,"body":"I. I think so, too."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4183.13,"endTime":4185.09,"body":"Like, I like that harmony idea because,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4186.21,"endTime":4190.01,"body":"like, again, I'm thinking about those weekends"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4186.21,"endTime":4190.01,"body":"where sometimes it's like, okay, I'm just,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4190.01,"endTime":4191.33,"body":"like, really having a great time."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4191.49,"endTime":4191.85,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4191.85,"endTime":4194.61,"body":"You know, I check in with my"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4191.85,"endTime":4194.61,"body":"wife, and she's like, yeah, you know, if you"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4194.61,"endTime":4196.93,"body":"don't have anything we gotta do, I can go play"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4194.61,"endTime":4196.93,"body":"my video games."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4197.09,"endTime":4200.45,"body":"You know, you go play, you know, in your book,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4197.09,"endTime":4200.45,"body":"and we would just do that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4200.61,"endTime":4202.29,"body":"Yeah. And there it is."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4202.45,"endTime":4203.17,"body":"And there it is."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4203.25,"endTime":4204.33,"body":"And then some weekends."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4204.33,"endTime":4204.77,"body":"It's not."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4204.77,"endTime":4207.81,"body":"Some weekends, it's not do something together"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4204.77,"endTime":4207.81,"body":"or do."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4207.97,"endTime":4208.37,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4208.37,"endTime":4209.85,"body":"So it's, you know, the."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4209.85,"endTime":4214.85,"body":"The struggle for balance also won't happen."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4215.33,"endTime":4216.45,"body":"Yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4217.17,"endTime":4219.97,"body":"We just try to find, like, how things"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4217.17,"endTime":4219.97,"body":"are going to work together."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4220.05,"endTime":4222.61,"body":"And I'm not."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4223.5,"endTime":4226.54,"body":"I'm not one for optimizing, because that word."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4226.94,"endTime":4232.18,"body":"I'm about to say how I like it, but the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4226.94,"endTime":4232.18,"body":"terminology of, like, optimizing your writing"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4232.18,"endTime":4235.66,"body":"life, it feels so clinical and robotic and,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4232.18,"endTime":4235.66,"body":"like."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4236.06,"endTime":4236.94,"body":"And filling."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4236.94,"endTime":4238.86,"body":"All those spare moments to, like, get the most"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4238.86,"endTime":4239.5,"body":"out of it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4239.5,"endTime":4242.1,"body":"But, like, optimizing your writing life to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4242.1,"endTime":4243.34,"body":"accomplish your goals is."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4243.34,"endTime":4246.46,"body":"Is really about not optimizing anything."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4246.46,"endTime":4249.18,"body":"Yeah. And, like, checking in"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4246.46,"endTime":4249.18,"body":"regularly and knowing."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4249.63,"endTime":4251.79,"body":"Also knowing it's not going to be consistent,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4249.63,"endTime":4251.79,"body":"that,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4252.27,"endTime":4253.03,"body":"you know, it's."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4253.03,"endTime":4256.31,"body":"There's going to be an ebb and a flow and"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4256.31,"endTime":4256.47,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4256.47,"endTime":4257.11,"body":"That's okay."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4257.11,"endTime":4258.43,"body":"That it's going to be messy."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4258.59,"endTime":4259.55,"body":"And that's okay."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4259.63,"endTime":4260.11,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4261.87,"endTime":4267.91,"body":"As long as it does feel, like,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4261.87,"endTime":4267.91,"body":"harmonious and, you know, you're."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4267.91,"endTime":4269.15,"body":"You're not beating yourself up."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4269.31,"endTime":4269.95,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4270.03,"endTime":4274.19,"body":"So working with Rachel was"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4270.03,"endTime":4274.19,"body":"probably the best decision that I've made in"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4274.19,"endTime":4274.99,"body":"my writing career."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4275.51,"endTime":4277.15,"body":"Um, it was incredible."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4277.15,"endTime":4278.23,"body":"I learned so much,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4279.27,"endTime":4282.47,"body":"and it was just, like, such a highlight of my"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4279.27,"endTime":4282.47,"body":"week every week to,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4283.75,"endTime":4285.83,"body":"like, talk to Rachel and turn in my pages."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4286.15,"endTime":4291.27,"body":"So we are gonna spend the rest of the summer"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4286.15,"endTime":4291.27,"body":"working on revisions and doing some planning"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4291.27,"endTime":4293.99,"body":"for what I hope will be books two and three of"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4291.27,"endTime":4293.99,"body":"this series."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4295.51,"endTime":4299.23,"body":"And then I will be still a member of Tenacious"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4295.51,"endTime":4299.23,"body":"Writing."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4299.23,"endTime":4306.35,"body":"So I will see Rachel, continue to see Rachel"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4299.23,"endTime":4306.35,"body":"and hop into those group coaching sessions and"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4306.43,"endTime":4307.95,"body":"continue to get support from the community."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4308.59,"endTime":4311.23,"body":"So if you're listening to all of this, and"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4308.59,"endTime":4311.23,"body":"you're like,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4311.87,"endTime":4313.47,"body":"I want what Sam has."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4313.95,"endTime":4320.67,"body":"I want the support and the leveling up and to"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4313.95,"endTime":4320.67,"body":"not feel like garbage when I'm writing."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4321.39,"endTime":4325.87,"body":"How, Rachel, can people find you and your"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4321.39,"endTime":4325.87,"body":"writing community and your coaching services?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4327.4,"endTime":4327.88,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4328.04,"endTime":4330.68,"body":"Um, let me first say that working with you was"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4330.68,"endTime":4331.24,"body":"a dream."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4331.48,"endTime":4332.2,"body":"Like, is."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4332.2,"endTime":4333.52,"body":"Is continues to be."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4333.52,"endTime":4334.08,"body":"Will be."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4334.08,"endTime":4336.92,"body":"I mean, ideal client if I've ever had one."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4336.92,"endTime":4337.32,"body":"I."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4337.32,"endTime":4341.36,"body":"This was so much fun and, like, such a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4337.32,"endTime":4341.36,"body":"pleasure."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4341.36,"endTime":4343.16,"body":"And, you know, I'm sad that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4343.239,"endTime":4345.32,"body":"That you're moving on, but I also unders."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4345.32,"endTime":4349.72,"body":"Like, it's time, you know, Like, I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4345.32,"endTime":4349.72,"body":"be sad not to have our weekly meetings, but I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4349.72,"endTime":4352.24,"body":"also am like, oh, my God, you have an agent."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4352.24,"endTime":4353.4,"body":"You're going to sell this book."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4353.4,"endTime":4354.52,"body":"You're going to sell a series."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4354.52,"endTime":4359.16,"body":"Like, this is going to be so cool, you know?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4354.52,"endTime":4359.16,"body":"So I. I just am so proud of you and all the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4359.16,"endTime":4360.88,"body":"work that you've done, and I thank you."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4360.96,"endTime":4361.44,"body":"It's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4361.6,"endTime":4363.44,"body":"It's just incredible."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4363.52,"endTime":4364.32,"body":"So, yeah, it's."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4364.32,"endTime":4365.12,"body":"It's been amazing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4365.12,"endTime":4366.12,"body":"Thanks for it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4366.12,"endTime":4366.96,"body":"You know, it's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4367.44,"endTime":4371.12,"body":"It's taken a chance on me, too, so thanks for"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4367.44,"endTime":4371.12,"body":"taking a chance on me."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4371.2,"endTime":4372.08,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4372.08,"endTime":4372.72,"body":"That was fun."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4373.04,"endTime":4374.64,"body":"Well, if you want to find us,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4375.2,"endTime":4384.64,"body":"my website is goldenmayediting.com and our"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4375.2,"endTime":4384.64,"body":"program, Tenacious Writing can be found on"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4384.8,"endTime":4387.52,"body":"that website, but it also is Tenacious"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4384.8,"endTime":4387.52,"body":"Writing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4389.61,"endTime":4390.45,"body":"You can check us out there."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4390.45,"endTime":4393.21,"body":"And we also have a podcast called Story Magic."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4393.85,"endTime":4396.25,"body":"It's on Apple Podcasts and Spotify."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4396.97,"endTime":4403.25,"body":"It's our little fun way of just showing up, I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4396.97,"endTime":4403.25,"body":"guess, talking about whatever things we want"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4403.25,"endTime":4403.77,"body":"to talk about."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4404.65,"endTime":4406.73,"body":"So. Yeah. And then you can find us on"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4404.65,"endTime":4406.73,"body":"Instagram."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4407.05,"endTime":4409.29,"body":"My Instagram is @butcoach, Rachel."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4409.29,"endTime":4411.41,"body":"And then we have a Tenacious Writing page."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4411.41,"endTime":4412.89,"body":"It's Tenacious Writing."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4413.86,"endTime":4414.26,"body":"Amazing."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4414.26,"endTime":4415.62,"body":"And anything else you want to share about"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4415.62,"endTime":4418.58,"body":"coaching before I send us off?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4419.38,"endTime":4420.66,"body":"I think it's just, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4421.78,"endTime":4422.9,"body":"my greatest pleasure."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4422.9,"endTime":4423.34,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4423.34,"endTime":4424.46,"body":"Like, it's just so fun."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4424.46,"endTime":4425.26,"body":"It's wonderful."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4425.26,"endTime":4428.9,"body":"And I think you should do it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4428.9,"endTime":4429.9,"body":"Anybody, if you're."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4429.9,"endTime":4432.02,"body":"If you're thinking this might be for me, not."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4432.1,"endTime":4433.38,"body":"Not even just with me."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4433.38,"endTime":4434.54,"body":"Like, Sam is a coach."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4434.54,"endTime":4435.46,"body":"Go work with Sam."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4436.1,"endTime":4438.98,"body":"There's so many incredible coaches in the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4436.1,"endTime":4438.98,"body":"world."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4439.14,"endTime":4439.54,"body":"And,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4440.21,"endTime":4442.29,"body":"you know, I. I hope we all provide this."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4442.37,"endTime":4444.41,"body":"This same type of service of, like, we care"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4444.41,"endTime":4448.25,"body":"about our authors and we care about helping"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4444.41,"endTime":4448.25,"body":"them and helping them tell the stories that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4448.25,"endTime":4449.25,"body":"they want to tell,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4450.21,"endTime":4452.37,"body":"and it really is life changing."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4452.69,"endTime":4455.41,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of us do"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4452.69,"endTime":4455.41,"body":"all know each other, so."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4455.41,"endTime":4455.69,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4455.69,"endTime":4458.21,"body":"Like, I don't know every single"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4455.69,"endTime":4458.21,"body":"coach in the world, but I do know a lot."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4458.29,"endTime":4459.05,"body":"So if I've."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4459.05,"endTime":4461.29,"body":"There's been times when people have come to me"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4461.29,"endTime":4464.49,"body":"and I've said, actually, you'd be a better fit"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4461.29,"endTime":4464.49,"body":"for this person, let me introduce you."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4464.49,"endTime":4465.41,"body":"And vice versa."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4465.8,"endTime":4466.52,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4466.52,"endTime":4469.68,"body":"So if you have any inkling that"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4466.52,"endTime":4469.68,"body":"working with a coach might be something you'd"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4469.68,"endTime":4469.96,"body":"like,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4470.6,"endTime":4472.48,"body":"reach out to Rachel, reach out to me."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4472.48,"endTime":4474.36,"body":"And if we're not the right person for you, we"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4474.36,"endTime":4477.56,"body":"probably know someone who is and can help make"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4474.36,"endTime":4477.56,"body":"that match."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4477.88,"endTime":4478.52,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4479.08,"endTime":4481.759,"body":"So if you found this helpful and"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4479.08,"endTime":4481.759,"body":"you like this conversation, you should"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4481.759,"endTime":4485.4,"body":"definitely check out Story Magic, which is"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4481.759,"endTime":4485.4,"body":"Rachel and Emily's podcast."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4485.56,"endTime":4486.76,"body":"And it's super helpful."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4487.16,"endTime":4491.28,"body":"It's fun to eavesdrop on their conversations"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4487.16,"endTime":4491.28,"body":"and."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4491.59,"endTime":4495.35,"body":"And you can also subscribe to my substack"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4491.59,"endTime":4495.35,"body":"Truant Pen,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4495.83,"endTime":4500.79,"body":"where I share weekly actionable advice for"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4495.83,"endTime":4500.79,"body":"stuck writers delivered right to your inbox,"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4501.35,"endTime":4504.87,"body":"including, increasingly often, some"},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4501.35,"endTime":4504.87,"body":"conversations like this one."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4505.43,"endTime":4507.03,"body":"So thank you, Rachel, so much for coming."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4507.11,"endTime":4507.67,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4507.67,"endTime":4508.55,"body":"This was so fun."},{"speaker":"Sam Cameron","startTime":4508.95,"endTime":4510.15,"body":"All right, bye, everybody."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4510.47,"endTime":4514.23,"body":"Bye. If you want to build a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4510.47,"endTime":4514.23,"body":"successful, fulfilling, and sustainable"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4514.23,"endTime":4517.19,"body":"writing life that works for you, you've got to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4514.23,"endTime":4517.19,"body":"get on our email list."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4517.7,"endTime":4521.3,"body":"Sign up now to get our free email course, the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4517.7,"endTime":4521.3,"body":"Magic of Character Arcs."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4521.38,"endTime":4526.02,"body":"After seven days of email magic, you'll have"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4521.38,"endTime":4526.02,"body":"the power to keep your readers flipping pages"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4526.02,"endTime":4526.98,"body":"all through the night."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4527.22,"endTime":4528.3,"body":"Link in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":4528.3,"endTime":4529.14,"body":"We'll see you there."}]}