{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":0.24,"endTime":14.44,"body":"Foreign. Hey, writers."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":14.44,"endTime":16.279,"body":"Welcome back to Story Magic, the podcast that"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":16.279,"endTime":18.08,"body":"will help you write a book you're damn proud"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":16.279,"endTime":18.08,"body":"of."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":18.4,"endTime":19.28,"body":"I'm Rachel."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":19.52,"endTime":20.4,"body":"And I'm Emily."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":21.2,"endTime":25.28,"body":"And today we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":21.2,"endTime":25.28,"body":"commissioning artists."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":26.17,"endTime":30.33,"body":"So that could be like for commissioning a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":26.17,"endTime":30.33,"body":"cover designer."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":30.33,"endTime":31.77,"body":"Commissioning character art."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":32.41,"endTime":35.61,"body":"Anytime you're going to hire someone to do art"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":32.41,"endTime":35.61,"body":"for you,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":36.01,"endTime":39.13,"body":"that's what we're talking about now in, in the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":36.01,"endTime":39.13,"body":"book process."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":39.37,"endTime":42.97,"body":"Not like just you're becoming an art patron."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":43.37,"endTime":45.37,"body":"We're talking about book stuff."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":46.25,"endTime":51.29,"body":"But yeah, because I think this is something"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":46.25,"endTime":51.29,"body":"that I think it's optional,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":52.4,"endTime":57.04,"body":"especially character artwork, I think is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":52.4,"endTime":57.04,"body":"optional, but I think it can be very helpful."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":57.76,"endTime":61.04,"body":"And if you don't know what you're doing or"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":57.76,"endTime":61.04,"body":"where to start or who to talk to,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":63.04,"endTime":65.12,"body":"I don't feel like there's that much"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":63.04,"endTime":65.12,"body":"information about it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":65.12,"endTime":70.4,"body":"When I've commissioned character art, I just"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":65.12,"endTime":70.4,"body":"ask my friends, like, yeah, who did you use"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":70.4,"endTime":73.52,"body":"and can I use them and how much did you pay?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":74.0,"endTime":76.08,"body":"Were they good?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":74.0,"endTime":76.08,"body":"What was this like?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":76.8,"endTime":79.72,"body":"So if you don't have friends to ask, we're"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":76.8,"endTime":79.72,"body":"your friends, we're going to."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":79.72,"endTime":81.68,"body":"Tell you, we'll tell you."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":82.08,"endTime":85.9,"body":"Okay, so, so let's start with why."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":86.46,"endTime":90.94,"body":"Why would you commission an artist in the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":86.46,"endTime":90.94,"body":"process of, of getting your book into the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":90.94,"endTime":91.18,"body":"world?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":91.98,"endTime":98.7,"body":"Well, I've commissioned a cover"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":91.98,"endTime":98.7,"body":"designer for my books in this self publishing"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":98.7,"endTime":102.78,"body":"path, that is something that you will need to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":98.7,"endTime":102.78,"body":"do in trad."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":102.94,"endTime":104.42,"body":"Not so much in hybrid."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":104.42,"endTime":104.94,"body":"It depends."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":104.94,"endTime":107.58,"body":"But I did commission a cover designer,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":108.3,"endTime":109.47,"body":"so that's necessary."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":109.47,"endTime":111.27,"body":"Your book needs a cover, so that's necessary."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":111.91,"endTime":112.95,"body":"But then I also,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":113.27,"endTime":120.79,"body":"I've commissioned now a ton of character"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":113.27,"endTime":120.79,"body":"artwork and I did that for personal reasons of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":120.79,"endTime":122.67,"body":"like, oh my gosh, these are my characters."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":122.67,"endTime":123.11,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":123.11,"endTime":131.03,"body":"But also marketing reasons primarily to use"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":123.11,"endTime":131.03,"body":"that character arc in or character art in my"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":131.03,"endTime":137.39,"body":"marketing strategy to get people interested in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":131.03,"endTime":137.39,"body":"buying and or reading my books."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":138.35,"endTime":143.19,"body":"So I think it's a marketing decision from both"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":138.35,"endTime":143.19,"body":"sides of it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":143.19,"endTime":146.47,"body":"Like your cover needs to be to fit with the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":143.19,"endTime":146.47,"body":"market."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":146.47,"endTime":147.87,"body":"It's a, it's a marketing strategy."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":147.87,"endTime":148.83,"body":"Your cover itself,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":149.63,"endTime":152.27,"body":"but that is necessary."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":152.51,"endTime":155.59,"body":"And then artwork for character art is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":155.59,"endTime":156.11,"body":"optional,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":156.51,"endTime":158.67,"body":"but a solid marketing strategy."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":159.39,"endTime":159.87,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":160.59,"endTime":161.15,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":161.39,"endTime":165.83,"body":"And like I've had a lot of writer"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":161.39,"endTime":165.83,"body":"friends also just commission art for"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":165.83,"endTime":168.03,"body":"themselves because they want to."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":168.03,"endTime":170.47,"body":"It's really fun to see your characters come to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":170.47,"endTime":176.59,"body":"life and I find that it can be a really"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":170.47,"endTime":176.59,"body":"powerful and exciting sort of celebration"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":176.91,"endTime":179.71,"body":"tactic where like, once you finish your first"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":176.91,"endTime":179.71,"body":"draft,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":179.71,"endTime":181.11,"body":"you know, that could be a carrot."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":181.11,"endTime":181.35,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":181.35,"endTime":185.27,"body":"When I finish my first draft, I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":181.35,"endTime":185.27,"body":"commission artwork of my characters or like,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":185.27,"endTime":186.27,"body":"you don't have to be."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":186.91,"endTime":187.75,"body":"That's what I did."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":187.75,"endTime":188.27,"body":"You. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":188.27,"endTime":188.67,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":188.83,"endTime":190.83,"body":"So the first piece of art that I"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":188.83,"endTime":190.83,"body":"commissioned,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":191.23,"endTime":193.71,"body":"I didn't do it from a marketing standpoint."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":193.71,"endTime":194.67,"body":"Like, it wasn't the."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":194.67,"endTime":196.91,"body":"The second piece I did was more the style."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":196.91,"endTime":198.31,"body":"Like, it felt more historical."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":198.31,"endTime":203.63,"body":"It felt more like it felt more on brand with"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":198.31,"endTime":203.63,"body":"the story and marketing strategies."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":203.63,"endTime":205.11,"body":"But the first piece that I got was just."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":205.11,"endTime":206.79,"body":"I really liked that artist and I really wanted"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":206.79,"endTime":207.55,"body":"a piece from her."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":207.79,"endTime":208.99,"body":"Um, and so I did."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":208.99,"endTime":212.63,"body":"I used it like a tiny bit in my marketing, but"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":208.99,"endTime":212.63,"body":"I didn't use it a ton, just cause it didn't"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":212.63,"endTime":213.95,"body":"match what I was trying to go for."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":214.11,"endTime":214.51,"body":"But."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":215.33,"endTime":216.01,"body":"But I love it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":216.01,"endTime":217.05,"body":"I love that piece of art."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":217.05,"endTime":217.29,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":217.29,"endTime":217.57,"body":"And."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":218.21,"endTime":220.37,"body":"And it was like within my price range at the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":218.21,"endTime":220.37,"body":"time."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":220.45,"endTime":221.89,"body":"So I just."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":221.97,"endTime":223.17,"body":"Yeah, I celebrated."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":223.17,"endTime":225.01,"body":"I think I celebrated querying with that one."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":225.65,"endTime":226.45,"body":"Yeah. Once it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":226.45,"endTime":228.41,"body":"It went out, I was like, I'm gonna get artwork"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":228.41,"endTime":232.25,"body":"of my characters and bring them to life just"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":228.41,"endTime":232.25,"body":"for myself, regardless of how this process is"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":232.25,"endTime":232.61,"body":"gonna go."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":232.61,"endTime":235.33,"body":"So I think that could be a really powerful"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":232.61,"endTime":235.33,"body":"reason to do it too."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":235.73,"endTime":236.53,"body":"And I agree."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":236.85,"endTime":237.65,"body":"It's fun."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":238.37,"endTime":239.21,"body":"It can be fun."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":239.21,"endTime":240.37,"body":"It also cannot be fun."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":240.37,"endTime":241.25,"body":"I'm gonna be honest."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":243.33,"endTime":243.81,"body":"It's not."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":243.97,"endTime":245.09,"body":"It's not always fun,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":247.09,"endTime":248.93,"body":"but it can be super exciting."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":249.33,"endTime":254.37,"body":"So I think that's also like a balance, is that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":249.33,"endTime":254.37,"body":"every time I get artwork, I'm very excited"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":254.37,"endTime":254.85,"body":"about it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":254.85,"endTime":257.21,"body":"It is not always fun to get artwork because I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":257.21,"endTime":259.33,"body":"think you have to make a lot of choices."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":259.97,"endTime":261.81,"body":"And I don't like making choices."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":261.97,"endTime":264.61,"body":"So that's hard."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":264.61,"endTime":265.81,"body":"We can get into that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":266.69,"endTime":268.85,"body":"But it is an exciting thing to do."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":269.99,"endTime":271.59,"body":"And regardless of what you're."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":271.75,"endTime":274.71,"body":"I think knowing what you're doing it for is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":274.71,"endTime":276.71,"body":"the first step to getting into this process."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":278.23,"endTime":283.39,"body":"Whether it's your cover, whether it's artwork,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":278.23,"endTime":283.39,"body":"whether it's some other reason that you're"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":283.39,"endTime":284.95,"body":"commissioning art or."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":284.95,"endTime":286.39,"body":"Or working with an artist."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":286.55,"endTime":291.75,"body":"Knowing why you're doing it and how you are"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":286.55,"endTime":291.75,"body":"going to use that art is very important."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":292.63,"endTime":299.16,"body":"Because another thing too about book cover"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":292.63,"endTime":299.16,"body":"design is that you may have hire a book cover"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":299.88,"endTime":305.08,"body":"designer, but then also hire an illustrator to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":299.88,"endTime":305.08,"body":"make artwork for that cover."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":305.48,"endTime":313.84,"body":"So then you're hiring two different people for"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":305.48,"endTime":313.84,"body":"one outcome that's very common, where you'll"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":313.84,"endTime":318.64,"body":"purchase, you'll like get a designer, an"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":313.84,"endTime":318.64,"body":"artist to make your illustration to go on your"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":318.64,"endTime":322.31,"body":"cover, and then you will give that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":318.64,"endTime":322.31,"body":"illustration to a cover designer who."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":322.54,"endTime":324.54,"body":"Who will make it into a book cover."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":326.06,"endTime":331.86,"body":"I think it's very important to work with a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":326.06,"endTime":331.86,"body":"cover designer that knows what a book cover"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":331.86,"endTime":332.38,"body":"should be."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":332.78,"endTime":340.14,"body":"It's not just like slap some art on the front"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":332.78,"endTime":340.14,"body":"of a 8.25 by 5 inch,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":340.86,"endTime":341.5,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":342.06,"endTime":342.62,"body":"image."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":343.98,"endTime":350.26,"body":"There is a lot of skill behind how a book"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":343.98,"endTime":350.26,"body":"cover is designed and how it's going to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":350.26,"endTime":352.62,"body":"attract the eye and the typography that's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":350.26,"endTime":352.62,"body":"used."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":353.45,"endTime":353.77,"body":"Um,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":354.09,"endTime":358.21,"body":"so if you're going, if you're on a budget and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":354.09,"endTime":358.21,"body":"you're not quite sure where to spend the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":358.21,"endTime":358.49,"body":"money,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":360.01,"endTime":363.21,"body":"spend it on a cover designer that knows what"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":360.01,"endTime":363.21,"body":"they're doing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":364.81,"endTime":368.33,"body":"Because people do judge books by their covers."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":369.209,"endTime":370.33,"body":"So you need to."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":370.33,"endTime":373.29,"body":"It's very important to have an eye catching"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":373.29,"endTime":375.13,"body":"COVID and someone that knows what they're"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":373.29,"endTime":375.13,"body":"doing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":376.33,"endTime":385.77,"body":"But like when I say an illustration for the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":376.33,"endTime":385.77,"body":"COVID if you, if you pick up like I'm thinking"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":385.77,"endTime":390.49,"body":"of like almost any Ali Hazelwood cover just as"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":385.77,"endTime":390.49,"body":"an example, there's like an image of two"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":390.49,"endTime":393.49,"body":"characters on the front and it looks pretty"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":390.49,"endTime":393.49,"body":"and beautiful like it was drawn."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":393.57,"endTime":394.61,"body":"That's an illustration."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":394.61,"endTime":395.09,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":395.17,"endTime":399.93,"body":"So the likelihood that that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":395.17,"endTime":399.93,"body":"illustrator also designed and formatted the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":399.93,"endTime":401.17,"body":"COVID is unlikely."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":401.41,"endTime":403.65,"body":"There were two pieces at work there and I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":403.81,"endTime":405.25,"body":"think a lot of people don't realize that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":405.61,"endTime":409.29,"body":"So depending on what genre you're writing in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":405.61,"endTime":409.29,"body":"and what are the,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":409.61,"endTime":412.89,"body":"what are the covers typically look like for"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":409.61,"endTime":412.89,"body":"that genre,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":413.37,"endTime":417.89,"body":"you may need to hire different people or"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":413.37,"endTime":417.89,"body":"multiple people and that's going to be"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":417.89,"endTime":420.61,"body":"dependent on what is expected in your genre."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":420.61,"endTime":422.49,"body":"Like in romance it is very common to have"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":422.49,"endTime":423.61,"body":"illustrated covers."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":423.93,"endTime":427.33,"body":"And I think in fantasy it's getting very"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":423.93,"endTime":427.33,"body":"common."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":427.33,"endTime":434.78,"body":"Specifically in cozy fantasy where you have"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":427.33,"endTime":434.78,"body":"like a very inviting, a very cute, a very"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":436.38,"endTime":437.5,"body":"beautiful cover."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":438.3,"endTime":441.26,"body":"Usually there's an illustration on the front."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":443.18,"endTime":446.7,"body":"I feel like I just went on a little tangent"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":443.18,"endTime":446.7,"body":"but to bring it back."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":446.7,"endTime":449.22,"body":"No, I think that's really helpful"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":446.7,"endTime":449.22,"body":"because I didn't know that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":449.22,"endTime":451.34,"body":"I mean I've never had to design my own cover."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":451.98,"endTime":454.9,"body":"So you know, my process was very, very"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":451.98,"endTime":454.9,"body":"different because it was from the other side"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":454.9,"endTime":458.7,"body":"where someone else was choosing the artist and"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":454.9,"endTime":458.7,"body":"choosing the, you know, the process for me."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":459.58,"endTime":460.22,"body":"So it is."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":460.3,"endTime":464.12,"body":"So I can imagine that people are wonder know"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":464.12,"endTime":468.4,"body":"if they're planning to go the trad route and"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":464.12,"endTime":468.4,"body":"planning to create their own covers for"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":468.4,"endTime":472.8,"body":"whatever reason or like be involved in that"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":468.4,"endTime":472.8,"body":"process that they might be asking like how do"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":472.8,"endTime":476.92,"body":"you find artists and cover designers to,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":477.48,"endTime":480.079,"body":"to do that process?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":477.48,"endTime":480.079,"body":"Can you talk a little bit about how you found"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":480.079,"endTime":484.44,"body":"yours and like what that process looks like?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":480.079,"endTime":484.44,"body":"Cause I have no idea."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":484.84,"endTime":492.44,"body":"Yeah, so I found my cover designer on"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":484.84,"endTime":492.44,"body":"Instagram and I think this designer in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":492.44,"endTime":494.08,"body":"particular happened to be."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":494.32,"endTime":495.4,"body":"I love my designer."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":495.4,"endTime":500.04,"body":"Her name is Sandra Maldo from Maldo designs"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":495.4,"endTime":500.04,"body":"and I will sing her praises for forever."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":500.04,"endTime":501.04,"body":"Go work with Sandra."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":501.04,"endTime":504.84,"body":"I loved her and, and she's done all four of my"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":504.84,"endTime":509.6,"body":"book covers and I have her book to do my next"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":504.84,"endTime":509.6,"body":"two book covers."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":510.24,"endTime":511.64,"body":"But I found her on Instagram."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":511.64,"endTime":513.6,"body":"She was running like a giveaway and someone"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":513.68,"endTime":517.44,"body":"sent it to me and was like, oh, you should try"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":513.68,"endTime":517.44,"body":"to get this giveaway."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":518.109,"endTime":523.149,"body":"And then when I was looking at her portfolio,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":518.109,"endTime":523.149,"body":"she had done the covers of some incredibly"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":523.149,"endTime":528.269,"body":"famous books that I had read and that I had"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":523.149,"endTime":528.269,"body":"really enjoyed and I, I recognized and knew."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":528.269,"endTime":529.349,"body":"So I was like, oh damn."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":529.349,"endTime":530.909,"body":"If, if this designer does,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":531.469,"endTime":534.669,"body":"you know Emily Rath's book covers, then I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":531.469,"endTime":534.669,"body":"should,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":534.989,"endTime":535.549,"body":"I should,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":536.029,"endTime":537.629,"body":"maybe she'll be in my price range."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":537.709,"endTime":539.949,"body":"And then I looked at her prices and like she's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":539.949,"endTime":547.12,"body":"very, I felt like incredibly well priced and I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":539.949,"endTime":547.12,"body":"hired her to do the COVID So I found her on"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":547.12,"endTime":547.6,"body":"Instagram."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":547.6,"endTime":550.04,"body":"If you type in like a social media search bar,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":550.36,"endTime":555.48,"body":"book cover artist, book cover designer, you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":550.36,"endTime":555.48,"body":"will find lists and lists and lists of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":555.48,"endTime":556.04,"body":"designers."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":556.52,"endTime":562.08,"body":"So that's where I always tell people to look"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":556.52,"endTime":562.08,"body":"first because I personally think you will get"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":562.08,"endTime":566.4,"body":"a great sense of their design style based on"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":562.08,"endTime":566.4,"body":"their Instagram feed."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":566.4,"endTime":567.68,"body":"I mean that, that was the goal."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":567.68,"endTime":571.96,"body":"I looked at Sandra's feed and I was like these"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":567.68,"endTime":571.96,"body":"are really I think beautiful covers."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":572.04,"endTime":573.0,"body":"I think they are,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":573.65,"endTime":573.89,"body":"they,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":574.45,"endTime":577.65,"body":"I can see a direction for like my genre."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":579.25,"endTime":580.61,"body":"So I, I want to try this."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":581.33,"endTime":586.93,"body":"I also have one of my clients, one of my one"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":581.33,"endTime":586.93,"body":"on one clients has booked a designer through"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":587.09,"endTime":588.37,"body":"Reedsy before."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":589.33,"endTime":595.73,"body":"On Reedsy there's a whole database of COVID"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":589.33,"endTime":595.73,"body":"designers of any, any book related person"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":595.73,"endTime":596.45,"body":"you're going to commission."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":596.85,"endTime":598.53,"body":"There is a list on Reedsy."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":599.82,"endTime":603.94,"body":"So I think that is a great place to look for"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":599.82,"endTime":603.94,"body":"people and they have a whole portfolio and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":603.94,"endTime":605.34,"body":"they have their pricing on there."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":605.74,"endTime":607.18,"body":"And so far so good."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":607.18,"endTime":609.3,"body":"Like we haven't this one on one client and I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":609.3,"endTime":611.26,"body":"haven't finished this process yet."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":611.34,"endTime":614.34,"body":"But the designer seems really professional."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":614.34,"endTime":619.98,"body":"The designer has an extensive portfolio and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":614.34,"endTime":619.98,"body":"like has worked with names that we were"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":619.98,"endTime":622.22,"body":"familiar with so we went with that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":623.74,"endTime":627.05,"body":"One of my other one on one clients was on."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":627.29,"endTime":630.25,"body":"There are websites that sell pre made covers."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":630.25,"endTime":633.85,"body":"I also think we should talk about the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":630.25,"endTime":633.85,"body":"difference between pre made and custom."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":636.17,"endTime":641.33,"body":"A pre made cover is a cover that's already"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":636.17,"endTime":641.33,"body":"designed and when you're buying it, you are"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":641.33,"endTime":642.65,"body":"buying that design."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":643.69,"endTime":646.49,"body":"And then the artist will change small things."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":646.65,"endTime":648.29,"body":"Obviously they'll change your book title,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":648.29,"endTime":653.64,"body":"they'll change like the author name and they"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":648.29,"endTime":653.64,"body":"might change little things but you're buying"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":653.64,"endTime":660.0,"body":"like a pre designed cover and they're"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":653.64,"endTime":660.0,"body":"generally like a 1:1 sell thing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":660.0,"endTime":663.64,"body":"So you're not going to get like a whole bunch"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":660.0,"endTime":663.64,"body":"of people have the same designed cover."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":664.04,"endTime":667.92,"body":"But the reason that they're pre made is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":664.04,"endTime":667.92,"body":"because when they're pre made they're, they're"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":667.92,"endTime":670.36,"body":"cheaper than getting like a custom cover."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":670.52,"endTime":672.52,"body":"And if you like the design you can buy the pre"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":672.52,"endTime":676.6,"body":"made and it's done and then you don't have to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":672.52,"endTime":676.6,"body":"go through like an extensive design process"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":677.16,"endTime":683.51,"body":"which I worked with on with Sandra where I had"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":677.16,"endTime":683.51,"body":"like four or five different revision passes"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":683.51,"endTime":687.03,"body":"and like we worked together to find the idea"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":683.51,"endTime":687.03,"body":"that I liked."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":687.03,"endTime":690.87,"body":"I didn't quite know what I wanted and I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":687.03,"endTime":690.87,"body":"finding anything that really spoke to me."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":690.95,"endTime":693.51,"body":"So she designed a custom cover for me."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":694.55,"endTime":699.75,"body":"And anyway going back to my one on one client,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":694.55,"endTime":699.75,"body":"she was on a pre made website and bought a pre"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":699.75,"endTime":706.24,"body":"made and then found out that the illustrator"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":699.75,"endTime":706.24,"body":"for that pre made cover makes covers."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":707.12,"endTime":714.28,"body":"So then she went to hire that illustrator in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":707.12,"endTime":714.28,"body":"particular and then works now with that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":714.28,"endTime":716.56,"body":"illustrator for her other book covers."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":717.2,"endTime":721.44,"body":"There's also websites if you like Google cover"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":717.2,"endTime":721.44,"body":"design,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":722.48,"endTime":726.0,"body":"I've like M I B L art,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":726.4,"endTime":731.24,"body":"like meble art I think is what it's called, is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":726.4,"endTime":731.24,"body":"a pretty popular one and they sell pre made"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":731.24,"endTime":732.08,"body":"and custom ones."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":732.08,"endTime":734.39,"body":"There's a bunch of different like companies"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":734.55,"endTime":741.87,"body":"that do it that you can hire or you can hire"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":734.55,"endTime":741.87,"body":"from like a designer one one on one which is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":741.87,"endTime":744.79,"body":"what I did and I found that person like I said"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":741.87,"endTime":744.79,"body":"through Instagram."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":746.23,"endTime":749.51,"body":"So it's like Google it, research it, you'll"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":746.23,"endTime":749.51,"body":"find somebody."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":749.67,"endTime":756.15,"body":"But what you're looking for in particular is a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":749.67,"endTime":756.15,"body":"portfolio that matches your vibe, that like"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":756.15,"endTime":761.2,"body":"you can tell that this designer has experience"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":756.15,"endTime":761.2,"body":"in your genre, that they, that they know how"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":761.2,"endTime":765.88,"body":"to design eye catching covers, that it looks"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":761.2,"endTime":765.88,"body":"professional."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":766.92,"endTime":770.84,"body":"I also think now AI is a big consideration."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":771.8,"endTime":773.64,"body":"My designer does not use AI."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":773.64,"endTime":774.52,"body":"That's what I want."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":774.52,"endTime":777.8,"body":"I don't want AI, I don't want my designer to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":774.52,"endTime":777.8,"body":"use AI."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":779.56,"endTime":782.04,"body":"But there are a lot of artists out there that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":779.56,"endTime":782.04,"body":"do."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":782.12,"endTime":785.16,"body":"And so then you have to look through that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":785.48,"endTime":790.0,"body":"What are your thoughts on AI and do you want"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":785.48,"endTime":790.0,"body":"to hire somebody that works with AI or that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":790.0,"endTime":792.16,"body":"could potentially put your cover through AI."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":793.52,"endTime":796.56,"body":"So I think that's another consideration to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":793.52,"endTime":796.56,"body":"make these days."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":797.44,"endTime":797.92,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":798.64,"endTime":799.04,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":799.04,"endTime":801.28,"body":"And when you're looking through portfolios I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":801.28,"endTime":807.2,"body":"feel like it's helpful to look up some of the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":801.28,"endTime":807.2,"body":"people that they've worked with before and see"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":807.2,"endTime":808.56,"body":"what their sales are like."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":810.0,"endTime":811.04,"body":"Like because you can,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":811.36,"endTime":816.61,"body":"I mean you can Google if you see a cover and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":811.36,"endTime":816.61,"body":"you can see the title and the author, you can"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":816.61,"endTime":818.73,"body":"Google that and see is that book making sales?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":819.21,"endTime":821.13,"body":"And if that book is not making sales,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":821.53,"endTime":825.85,"body":"you know, can you articulate why?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":821.53,"endTime":825.85,"body":"Is it because the COVID sucks or is it because"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":825.85,"endTime":828.09,"body":"they're this person's marketing it?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":825.85,"endTime":828.09,"body":"Like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":829.05,"endTime":833.21,"body":"I think there's some inferring that you can do"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":829.05,"endTime":833.21,"body":"on if these are,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":833.77,"endTime":838.25,"body":"are like effective covers."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":838.49,"endTime":841.87,"body":"So like with my designer, I know the, what she"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":841.87,"endTime":844.79,"body":"had in the portfolio sells crazy."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":844.95,"endTime":847.63,"body":"So I was like, well that's good for me."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":847.63,"endTime":848.31,"body":"Like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":848.79,"endTime":850.91,"body":"that's a check mark in Sandra's box."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":850.91,"endTime":851.91,"body":"I want to work with her."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":853.59,"endTime":856.87,"body":"I think that's all factors to consider."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":857.03,"endTime":858.15,"body":"Does that answer your question?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":858.87,"endTime":860.11,"body":"Yeah, yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":860.11,"endTime":861.55,"body":"No, I think that's really, really helpful for"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":861.55,"endTime":863.15,"body":"people who are first starting this out."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":863.15,"endTime":864.51,"body":"It's like anything you can Google, but"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":864.51,"endTime":868.99,"body":"sometimes it's helpful to know like what"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":864.51,"endTime":868.99,"body":"direction to Google in and where, where to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":868.99,"endTime":869.19,"body":"look."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":869.19,"endTime":870.87,"body":"So I think that can, that's super helpful."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":871.76,"endTime":876.56,"body":"So you know, on my Chad side where, you know,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":871.76,"endTime":876.56,"body":"the company was,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":877.04,"endTime":880.4,"body":"the publisher was commissioning somebody to do"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":877.04,"endTime":880.4,"body":"my,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":881.52,"endTime":884.88,"body":"my cover, but I still had that process of,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":881.52,"endTime":884.88,"body":"okay, what,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":885.52,"endTime":889.84,"body":"what are other books in the genre that you,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":890.48,"endTime":893.56,"body":"that, whose covers you like that you kind of"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":890.48,"endTime":893.56,"body":"want to go in that direction."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":893.56,"endTime":894.88,"body":"And then they asked me,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":895.44,"endTime":896.32,"body":"you know, some,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":896.89,"endTime":898.97,"body":"some high level ideas of what,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":899.53,"endTime":902.29,"body":"what direction do you want to go?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":899.53,"endTime":902.29,"body":"Like, do we want to go face, do we want to go"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":902.29,"endTime":905.77,"body":"item, do we want to go design or you know,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":902.29,"endTime":905.77,"body":"like abstract design?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":906.33,"endTime":910.17,"body":"So I'm curious, like, what was the process"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":906.33,"endTime":910.17,"body":"with Sandra?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":910.25,"endTime":914.21,"body":"How did you give her information about where"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":910.25,"endTime":914.21,"body":"you wanted to go?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":914.21,"endTime":917.13,"body":"And I think it's really helpful to know that"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":914.21,"endTime":917.13,"body":"you had no idea where you wanted to go."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":917.13,"endTime":919.77,"body":"How did you, how did you get there?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":917.13,"endTime":919.77,"body":"Because I think a lot of people have that fear"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":919.77,"endTime":922.21,"body":"of like, I don't know what I want my cover to"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":919.77,"endTime":922.21,"body":"look like."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":922.21,"endTime":925.65,"body":"How do you even get there when you're"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":922.21,"endTime":925.65,"body":"commissioning an artist when you need to tell"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":925.65,"endTime":926.41,"body":"them what to do?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":926.81,"endTime":927.29,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":928.01,"endTime":930.49,"body":"So I, I think this is going to be true of any"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":928.01,"endTime":930.49,"body":"artist,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":930.81,"endTime":936.01,"body":"but having an idea in your head, at least of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":930.81,"endTime":936.01,"body":"Vibes is going to be really helpful."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":936.17,"endTime":940.53,"body":"I also think it helps you down the road"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":936.17,"endTime":940.53,"body":"because when I was talking earlier about like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":940.53,"endTime":940.89,"body":"I,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":941.77,"endTime":943.93,"body":"some parts of commissioning art is really"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":941.77,"endTime":943.93,"body":"hard."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":943.93,"endTime":948.25,"body":"It's because nothing looks like the way that I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":943.93,"endTime":948.25,"body":"want it to look and that's really frustrating."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":948.65,"endTime":951.53,"body":"But the more specific an idea that you have in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":948.65,"endTime":951.53,"body":"your head,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":952.18,"endTime":955.3,"body":"the easier it is to tell if it looks the way"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":952.18,"endTime":955.3,"body":"that you want it to look."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":955.54,"endTime":960.34,"body":"So because I don't have any idea and I can't"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":955.54,"endTime":960.34,"body":"articulate what I want Something to look like."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":960.42,"endTime":961.86,"body":"This is not, this is not sad."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":961.86,"endTime":962.66,"body":"Not that I had ever,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":963.14,"endTime":966.62,"body":"ever had any issues with Sandra, but that's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":963.14,"endTime":966.62,"body":"not the artist's fault."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":966.62,"endTime":971.7,"body":"If you can't tell them what you want and then"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":966.62,"endTime":971.7,"body":"they can't give you what you asked for, that's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":971.7,"endTime":972.18,"body":"your fault."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":972.18,"endTime":974.18,"body":"So I, I know that this is my fault,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":974.66,"endTime":976.18,"body":"but when I worked with Sandra,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":978.27,"endTime":980.27,"body":"I had like one idea."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":980.51,"endTime":981.31,"body":"I guess I could."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":981.31,"endTime":982.59,"body":"I guess I had two ideas."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":982.59,"endTime":984.87,"body":"And this was the motif that I carried through"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":984.87,"endTime":986.83,"body":"the rest of my covers for this series."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":987.07,"endTime":990.27,"body":"I wanted a piece of jewelry and I wanted some"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":987.07,"endTime":990.27,"body":"flowers."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":990.99,"endTime":996.03,"body":"And when I commissioned, when I commissioned"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":990.99,"endTime":996.03,"body":"Sandra, I was not done with the book."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":996.43,"endTime":1000.87,"body":"So I also knew that whatever she ended up"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":996.43,"endTime":1000.87,"body":"coming up with, I could write into the book if"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1000.87,"endTime":1001.71,"body":"I wanted to."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1002.35,"endTime":1005.03,"body":"So I told her I wanted a necklace."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1005.03,"endTime":1007.31,"body":"And I kind of described for her what,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1007.74,"endTime":1009.06,"body":"what I thought the necklace looked like."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1009.06,"endTime":1011.26,"body":"And it was based off a necklace that is in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1011.26,"endTime":1012.22,"body":"Blood in the Water."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1013.1,"endTime":1018.46,"body":"And this was the idea that I had in mind of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1013.1,"endTime":1018.46,"body":"what I thought the necklace looked like."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1018.46,"endTime":1021.62,"body":"But I told her, I genuinely don't care what"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1018.46,"endTime":1021.62,"body":"the necklace looks like."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1021.62,"endTime":1026.38,"body":"Can you please find a pretty necklace and then"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1021.62,"endTime":1026.38,"body":"I'll write that necklace into the book?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1027.42,"endTime":1028.62,"body":"And she was like, sure."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1029.18,"endTime":1031.5,"body":"So. And I also told her roses,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1031.82,"endTime":1034.22,"body":"Roses were also important in Blood in the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1031.82,"endTime":1034.22,"body":"Water."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1034.22,"endTime":1042.37,"body":"So I wanted roses on the COVID And the first"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1034.22,"endTime":1042.37,"body":"design that she came back with was like super"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1042.53,"endTime":1049.41,"body":"zoomed in on a rose and it had the necklace in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1042.53,"endTime":1049.41,"body":"it, like nestled in between the petals."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1049.57,"endTime":1052.93,"body":"And it was, I felt like really hard to read,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1049.57,"endTime":1052.93,"body":"so I couldn't really."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1053.09,"endTime":1054.85,"body":"I was like, this is too muddy."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1054.85,"endTime":1055.57,"body":"I. It's."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1055.81,"endTime":1057.29,"body":"We've got the two things right."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1057.29,"endTime":1059.01,"body":"Like, I asked for roses and I asked for a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1059.01,"endTime":1061.89,"body":"necklace I don't really like."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1062.3,"endTime":1065.98,"body":"The necklace that she chose was pretty, but"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1062.3,"endTime":1065.98,"body":"it, it wasn't exactly what I was looking for."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1065.98,"endTime":1071.1,"body":"And so I asked if she could find anything else"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1065.98,"endTime":1071.1,"body":"and if we could zoom out on the roses and you"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1071.1,"endTime":1073.74,"body":"know, can we show a different kind?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1073.9,"endTime":1076.26,"body":"And she came back and she was like, yes, we"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1073.9,"endTime":1076.26,"body":"can."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1076.26,"endTime":1080.62,"body":"But what if I did like falling petals instead?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1076.26,"endTime":1080.62,"body":"Because that would show more movement."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1081.1,"endTime":1082.5,"body":"And I was like, that's a great idea."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1082.5,"endTime":1084.38,"body":"It doesn't have to be like a rose."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1084.54,"endTime":1090.28,"body":"I just wanted something that, that hinted at"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1084.54,"endTime":1090.28,"body":"or that spoke to in part of the book."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1090.84,"endTime":1095.56,"body":"So then she came back with a different"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1090.84,"endTime":1095.56,"body":"necklace, which was gorgeous."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1095.56,"endTime":1101.32,"body":"And I also needed this necklace to look like"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1095.56,"endTime":1101.32,"body":"ridiculously expensive, like big ass jewels."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1101.4,"endTime":1106.36,"body":"Like it had to be money because of how rich"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1101.4,"endTime":1106.36,"body":"the characters are in the book."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1106.92,"endTime":1109.6,"body":"So she came back and I was like, that's a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1106.92,"endTime":1109.6,"body":"perfect necklace."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1109.6,"endTime":1112.12,"body":"It is just diamonds, like, all diamonds."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1112.44,"endTime":1118.18,"body":"So then I wrote in the book what the necklace"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1112.44,"endTime":1118.18,"body":"looked like because she had found one that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1118.18,"endTime":1121.94,"body":"really fit, like the image that I was looking"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1118.18,"endTime":1121.94,"body":"for."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1122.42,"endTime":1128.42,"body":"And then she did the falling petals and it, it"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1122.42,"endTime":1128.42,"body":"was like, oh, yes, this is the right"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1128.42,"endTime":1128.98,"body":"direction."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1129.38,"endTime":1132.9,"body":"So we completely changed, like, the first"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1129.38,"endTime":1132.9,"body":"cover."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1133.22,"endTime":1136.18,"body":"And then after she came back with this kind of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1133.22,"endTime":1136.18,"body":"new design,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1137.14,"endTime":1142.1,"body":"then we had multiple different tweaks to it"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1137.14,"endTime":1142.1,"body":"where we tweaked, like, some of the letters."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1142.1,"endTime":1143.38,"body":"She had picked a font."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1144.01,"endTime":1147.77,"body":"I didn't tell her, like, what font to do, or I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1144.01,"endTime":1147.77,"body":"didn't tell her, like, how to."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1148.41,"endTime":1154.37,"body":"Like, the typography is how you put the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1148.41,"endTime":1154.37,"body":"typeface, like how you put the fonts on the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1154.37,"endTime":1156.05,"body":"COVID if you're not familiar with that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1156.05,"endTime":1157.69,"body":"Not you, Emily, because you do this."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1157.69,"endTime":1159.489,"body":"But. But people that are listening."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1159.489,"endTime":1160.97,"body":"So typography is really important."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1160.97,"endTime":1163.85,"body":"So she picked all that and then was like, what"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1160.97,"endTime":1163.85,"body":"do you think?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1164.33,"endTime":1169.01,"body":"And that was open for me to say, I don't like"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1164.33,"endTime":1169.01,"body":"this font, or can it be spaced out a little"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1169.01,"endTime":1170.81,"body":"bit more?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1169.01,"endTime":1170.81,"body":"So all that she could tweak."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1170.94,"endTime":1176.54,"body":"And we tweaked and changed and some of the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1170.94,"endTime":1176.54,"body":"details of the COVID we tweaked like the."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1176.86,"endTime":1177.42,"body":"If you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1178.22,"endTime":1180.5,"body":"This is easier if you know what my book cover"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1178.22,"endTime":1180.5,"body":"looks like."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1180.5,"endTime":1182.78,"body":"So if you, if you don't, you can go look it"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1180.5,"endTime":1182.78,"body":"up."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1182.78,"endTime":1185.82,"body":"But like, the necklace kind of flows around"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1182.78,"endTime":1185.82,"body":"the words."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1186.3,"endTime":1190.46,"body":"And we like changed part of how the necklace,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1186.3,"endTime":1190.46,"body":"like, came in front of a letter or went back"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1190.46,"endTime":1191.18,"body":"behind a letter."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1191.18,"endTime":1192.3,"body":"So at that point we're just."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1192.38,"endTime":1196.38,"body":"The design was set and we were making little"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1192.38,"endTime":1196.38,"body":"tweaks to it and we were moving petals around"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1196.38,"endTime":1198.86,"body":"so we could maybe see the letters a little bit"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1196.38,"endTime":1198.86,"body":"better."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1199.43,"endTime":1203.11,"body":"She did all of that for me and we probably"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1199.43,"endTime":1203.11,"body":"went back three or four times before."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1203.11,"endTime":1204.87,"body":"I was like, yeah, that, that's it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1204.95,"endTime":1205.75,"body":"That looks good."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1205.75,"endTime":1209.27,"body":"And then I, I had told her, this is going to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1205.75,"endTime":1209.27,"body":"be a four book series."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1209.99,"endTime":1212.31,"body":"I'm gonna hire you for all four of these"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1209.99,"endTime":1212.31,"body":"covers."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1212.31,"endTime":1216.87,"body":"But do you feel like this could continue?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1212.31,"endTime":1216.87,"body":"Like, could we continue to translate this"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1216.87,"endTime":1219.51,"body":"across multiple books?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1216.87,"endTime":1219.51,"body":"And she was like, yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1219.91,"endTime":1223.75,"body":"So then when I went back to her for the second"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1219.91,"endTime":1223.75,"body":"book, she already kind of knew we were gonna"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1223.75,"endTime":1224.31,"body":"do the same thing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1224.31,"endTime":1226.23,"body":"We were gonna do the falling petals."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1226.52,"endTime":1228.68,"body":"But on the second book we added a weapon."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1228.76,"endTime":1231.32,"body":"So then now every other books after that, I've"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1231.32,"endTime":1233.72,"body":"had a piece of jewelry and I've had a weapon."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1235.8,"endTime":1239.88,"body":"So then the following books were about, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1235.8,"endTime":1239.88,"body":"getting the right again, the right piece of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1239.88,"endTime":1243.32,"body":"Jewelry, the right flow of the weapon."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1243.32,"endTime":1245.0,"body":"Because in only fools Russian,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1245.4,"endTime":1245.96,"body":"like the."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1246.2,"endTime":1249.92,"body":"We picked a knife and an engagement ring."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1249.92,"endTime":1251.0,"body":"So like a big ass ring."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1251.0,"endTime":1252.77,"body":"Again, these are rich people."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1252.85,"endTime":1256.45,"body":"So it had to be gaudy, like it had to be"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1252.85,"endTime":1256.45,"body":"large."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1257.41,"endTime":1263.41,"body":"And we were trying to play even with like the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1257.41,"endTime":1263.41,"body":"perspective of the weapon and the ring because"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1263.49,"endTime":1264.29,"body":"realistically,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1265.25,"endTime":1269.41,"body":"like those two things might not have looked"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1265.25,"endTime":1269.41,"body":"like their proper size, but it worked better"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1269.41,"endTime":1271.81,"body":"on the COVID to have it a little exaggerated."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1272.13,"endTime":1276.01,"body":"So we went back and forth between that and we"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1272.13,"endTime":1276.01,"body":"changed the color of the petals."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1276.01,"endTime":1277.01,"body":"So I think like each,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1277.9,"endTime":1283.82,"body":"each book we kind of got better at working"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1277.9,"endTime":1283.82,"body":"together and we refined those ideas."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1284.06,"endTime":1287.62,"body":"And then I think with the fourth book cover is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1284.06,"endTime":1287.62,"body":"not released."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1287.62,"endTime":1290.78,"body":"I haven't, you know what it looks like, but I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1287.62,"endTime":1290.78,"body":"haven't showed other people."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1290.86,"endTime":1294.94,"body":"And that one was also the same deal where like"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1290.86,"endTime":1294.94,"body":"we were trying to find the right image, we"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1294.94,"endTime":1299.18,"body":"were trying to find the right weapon, we were"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1294.94,"endTime":1299.18,"body":"trying to find the right thing to fit on it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1299.34,"endTime":1304.71,"body":"So we went back and forth more about like"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1299.34,"endTime":1304.71,"body":"finding those pictures and not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1304.71,"endTime":1310.63,"body":"like the design of the product because that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1304.71,"endTime":1310.63,"body":"was already set."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1310.79,"endTime":1315.71,"body":"So all in all, I think this is a pretty"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1310.79,"endTime":1315.71,"body":"standard process where you will give a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1315.71,"endTime":1316.83,"body":"designer your ideas."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1316.83,"endTime":1322.23,"body":"And as, as specific or as vague as they are,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1316.83,"endTime":1322.23,"body":"you're only helping yourself out if you can"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1322.31,"endTime":1324.79,"body":"translate some sort of vibe or expectation."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1325.19,"endTime":1326.95,"body":"If you have specific ideas, great."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1327.59,"endTime":1330.71,"body":"I didn't because I, I was nervous, honestly."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1330.71,"endTime":1333.89,"body":"I didn't know what to choose and I was worried"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1333.89,"endTime":1335.21,"body":"that I wouldn't choose right."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1336.41,"endTime":1339.29,"body":"So I wanted to rely on Sandra's expertise."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1339.53,"endTime":1341.45,"body":"But I gave her, you know, some things."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1341.69,"endTime":1343.85,"body":"She comes back with like a first version."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1344.17,"endTime":1348.89,"body":"And then most designers, I think this is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1344.17,"endTime":1348.89,"body":"important when you're booking a contract that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1348.89,"endTime":1351.85,"body":"you have worked in, how many edits you get."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1352.65,"endTime":1356.57,"body":"Sandra was a wonderful designer where we were"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1352.65,"endTime":1356.57,"body":"going to edit it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1356.57,"endTime":1359.37,"body":"Like, I don't think she had a set number in"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1356.57,"endTime":1359.37,"body":"her contract."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1360.69,"endTime":1364.65,"body":"But I was also very cognizant of like, I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1360.69,"endTime":1364.65,"body":"don't, I'm not gonna be an asshole client"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1364.65,"endTime":1366.85,"body":"where I'm asking you to change every single"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1364.65,"endTime":1366.85,"body":"thing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1367.09,"endTime":1369.09,"body":"Tweak, tweak, tweak like a thousand times."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1370.05,"endTime":1373.09,"body":"So also, if, if your designer does not have a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1370.05,"endTime":1373.09,"body":"set number,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1373.49,"endTime":1374.53,"body":"be respectful."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1374.53,"endTime":1376.69,"body":"Where this is taking up their time and effort."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1377.17,"endTime":1380.25,"body":"And so you don't wanna have a gajillion"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1377.17,"endTime":1380.25,"body":"tweaks."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1380.25,"endTime":1380.69,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1382.21,"endTime":1385.41,"body":"So you're, when you give feedback, try"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1382.21,"endTime":1385.41,"body":"to be very specific,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1385.88,"endTime":1389.96,"body":"try to ask for specific things because that's"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1385.88,"endTime":1389.96,"body":"going to cut down on the amount of revisions."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1390.04,"endTime":1391.56,"body":"But I think three to four,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1392.2,"endTime":1397.32,"body":"like big Revisions or tweaks is pretty"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1392.2,"endTime":1397.32,"body":"standard, and that means you're going back,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1397.32,"endTime":1402.52,"body":"like, three or four different times with edits"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1397.32,"endTime":1402.52,"body":"and changes and tweaks."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1403.96,"endTime":1408.04,"body":"So knowing how many you have ahead of time is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1403.96,"endTime":1408.04,"body":"really helpful."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1409.72,"endTime":1413.28,"body":"Being able to communicate with your designer,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1409.72,"endTime":1413.28,"body":"like, I think this is in the right direction."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1413.28,"endTime":1414.68,"body":"Or, no, I really want to change it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1415.1,"endTime":1415.34,"body":"They."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1416.38,"endTime":1418.02,"body":"We, Emily and I run into this."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1418.02,"endTime":1419.98,"body":"You and I run into this where, like, we don't"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1419.98,"endTime":1421.94,"body":"care what changes we're making."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1421.94,"endTime":1424.06,"body":"Like, we just want a client to be happy."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1424.3,"endTime":1428.14,"body":"But people then feel like, well, I don't want"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1424.3,"endTime":1428.14,"body":"to bother them by asking them to make changes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1428.14,"endTime":1429.26,"body":"Like, it's the same thing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1429.66,"endTime":1433.02,"body":"These artists usually don't mind about making"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1429.66,"endTime":1433.02,"body":"changes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1433.02,"endTime":1434.34,"body":"They're trying to make you happy."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1434.34,"endTime":1436.62,"body":"But you have to communicate, like, you have to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1436.62,"endTime":1440.9,"body":"express what you like or don't like about"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1436.62,"endTime":1440.9,"body":"something specifically to."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1441.05,"endTime":1442.17,"body":"So that they know."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1444.01,"endTime":1445.61,"body":"But, yeah, I think having."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1446.57,"endTime":1450.73,"body":"I might have sent Sandra, like, a Pinterest"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1446.57,"endTime":1450.73,"body":"board at the beginning."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1450.73,"endTime":1451.89,"body":"It's like, here's the vibe."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1451.89,"endTime":1452.65,"body":"What can you do?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1453.37,"endTime":1453.85,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1454.33,"endTime":1457.77,"body":"the more references you can send, I think is"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1454.33,"endTime":1457.77,"body":"helpful."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1458.57,"endTime":1462.41,"body":"Yeah. So flipping over to character"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1458.57,"endTime":1462.41,"body":"arc, I feel like that's really."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1463.13,"endTime":1466.49,"body":"If you're doing character art or if you're"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1463.13,"endTime":1466.49,"body":"having an illustration done for your cover,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1468.1,"endTime":1469.14,"body":"that can be really helpful."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1469.14,"endTime":1469.94,"body":"I ended up,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1470.34,"endTime":1474.1,"body":"when I did mine, I picked a scene from the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1470.34,"endTime":1474.1,"body":"book,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1474.66,"endTime":1479.62,"body":"and one of the artists wanted to see the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1474.66,"endTime":1479.62,"body":"scene, so I sent her the actual scene, like,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1479.62,"endTime":1482.26,"body":"you know, the text from the scene of the book,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1479.62,"endTime":1482.26,"body":"and then."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1483.38,"endTime":1484.9,"body":"And then folders of pictures."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1485.14,"endTime":1487.58,"body":"So pictures of, you know, what I thought they"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1487.58,"endTime":1488.34,"body":"might be wearing,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1488.66,"endTime":1492.58,"body":"pictures of what I thought my characters"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1488.66,"endTime":1492.58,"body":"looked like, pictures of the setting."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1493.39,"endTime":1496.91,"body":"And so I was able to give her a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1493.39,"endTime":1496.91,"body":"pictures that were sort of the inspiration"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1496.91,"endTime":1498.91,"body":"behind what I wanted her to do."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1498.91,"endTime":1500.83,"body":"And then we talked a lot about pose."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1501.07,"endTime":1506.03,"body":"So she did pose sketches where she sent me,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1501.07,"endTime":1506.03,"body":"like, a bunch of sketches, and I got to pick"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1506.03,"endTime":1507.23,"body":"which pose I wanted."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1508.51,"endTime":1511.23,"body":"And then from there, she went and did the."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1512.43,"endTime":1516.55,"body":"I mean, it was so close to my vision that I"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1512.43,"endTime":1516.55,"body":"was like, great, we'll do these last tiny"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1516.55,"endTime":1519.39,"body":"tweaks to, like, hair color and dress color,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1516.55,"endTime":1519.39,"body":"and then we're good."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1520.02,"endTime":1524.82,"body":"Um, so, yeah, having those references and an"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1520.02,"endTime":1524.82,"body":"idea of what you're looking for and, like, as"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1524.82,"endTime":1527.78,"body":"much information as you can give them, the"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1524.82,"endTime":1527.78,"body":"closer it's going to be to your vision."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1528.02,"endTime":1528.5,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1528.9,"endTime":1530.02,"body":"And then it's easy."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1530.26,"endTime":1532.58,"body":"It's also easier to follow up and say, well,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1532.58,"endTime":1536.98,"body":"actually, I really liked the hair of this"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1532.58,"endTime":1536.98,"body":"reference, but I didn't like the."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1536.98,"endTime":1540.34,"body":"But I don't like the Nose of this reference,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1536.98,"endTime":1540.34,"body":"you know, like, I."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1540.5,"endTime":1542.5,"body":"You can do that kind of stuff."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1542.9,"endTime":1544.26,"body":"And I have."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1546.08,"endTime":1547.04,"body":"I feel like, over."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1547.92,"endTime":1548.48,"body":"So the."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1548.56,"endTime":1551.16,"body":"The first character art I ever commissioned, I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1551.16,"endTime":1552.0,"body":"have never used."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1552.56,"endTime":1552.96,"body":"I."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1553.44,"endTime":1554.72,"body":"I commissioned the piece."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1555.44,"endTime":1557.36,"body":"It did not turn out like what I wanted,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1557.92,"endTime":1558.88,"body":"and it was fine."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1558.96,"endTime":1561.56,"body":"Like, it was within this character's or it was"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1561.56,"endTime":1562.96,"body":"in the artist art style."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1563.2,"endTime":1565.72,"body":"They delivered exactly what I asked for, but I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1565.72,"endTime":1567.68,"body":"just never ended up finding, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1568.0,"endTime":1571.04,"body":"it didn't fit my vibe, I guess, as a brand."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1571.78,"endTime":1573.06,"body":"Yeah. So I've never used it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1573.38,"endTime":1575.78,"body":"Then I got better at commissioning art."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1576.5,"endTime":1576.98,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1576.98,"endTime":1577.9,"body":"And now I use it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1577.9,"endTime":1581.54,"body":"And then I never used to ask for pose,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1582.42,"endTime":1585.46,"body":"and then they would send me back a couple"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1582.42,"endTime":1585.46,"body":"different pose options."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1585.78,"endTime":1587.06,"body":"That's pretty common for."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1587.54,"endTime":1589.22,"body":"For this kind of character artwork,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1589.62,"endTime":1590.42,"body":"like you said."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1590.82,"endTime":1593.98,"body":"But the latest one I commissioned, which I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1590.82,"endTime":1593.98,"body":"got, that I haven't sent to."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1593.98,"endTime":1594.5,"body":"I got."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1594.66,"endTime":1595.86,"body":"I got it in my inbox."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1595.86,"endTime":1596.66,"body":"Oh, I'm excited."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1596.66,"endTime":1597.3,"body":"Last night."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1597.67,"endTime":1598.79,"body":"I'll text it to you right now."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1598.79,"endTime":1604.35,"body":"But I asked for this pose specifically because"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1604.35,"endTime":1605.83,"body":"I had this in my mind."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1605.83,"endTime":1608.55,"body":"And I was like, this is the pose that I want."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1608.87,"endTime":1610.39,"body":"And she killed it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1610.39,"endTime":1611.59,"body":"She knocked it out of the park."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1611.59,"endTime":1612.91,"body":"And I was like, it's so hot."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1612.91,"endTime":1613.99,"body":"It looks so good."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1614.23,"endTime":1614.79,"body":"It's not."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1614.95,"endTime":1615.47,"body":"It's not."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1615.47,"endTime":1616.55,"body":"Not safe for work or anything."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1616.55,"endTime":1618.23,"body":"It just like, oh, my God,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1619.43,"endTime":1620.47,"body":"you guys, wait."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1620.47,"endTime":1621.27,"body":"Just wait."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1621.59,"endTime":1622.15,"body":"Like, the."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1622.71,"endTime":1624.93,"body":"The specific pose, I was."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1624.93,"endTime":1627.37,"body":"I found a couple references on Pinterest, and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1627.37,"endTime":1631.37,"body":"I was like, I want this, and I want his hand"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1627.37,"endTime":1631.37,"body":"here."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1631.69,"endTime":1632.97,"body":"And she did it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1634.09,"endTime":1636.17,"body":"But previously, I'd never asked for that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1636.41,"endTime":1638.65,"body":"So then the artist came back with, like, pose"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1638.65,"endTime":1641.05,"body":"choices, and then I chose the pose,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1642.09,"endTime":1642.73,"body":"and that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1642.81,"endTime":1643.77,"body":"That worked out well."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1643.77,"endTime":1645.69,"body":"But this piece, I'm very excited about."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1646.33,"endTime":1646.89,"body":"It needs,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1647.69,"endTime":1650.81,"body":"like, final rendering, but it's almost done."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1651.29,"endTime":1652.41,"body":"But, yeah, I think, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1653.18,"endTime":1653.74,"body":"providing."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1654.86,"endTime":1663.66,"body":"Providing artwork that you can get for"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1654.86,"endTime":1663.66,"body":"examples on skin tone, hair,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1663.98,"endTime":1666.46,"body":"eye color, whatever it is that you want."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1666.62,"endTime":1669.58,"body":"And Pinterest has a lot of different options."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1669.58,"endTime":1674.34,"body":"Like, you can ask for crazy things, and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1669.58,"endTime":1674.34,"body":"Pinterest will have character inspiration for"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1674.34,"endTime":1674.62,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1676.22,"endTime":1680.18,"body":"Then you can send it to an artist, and they'll"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1676.22,"endTime":1680.18,"body":"make you something that you like."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1681.06,"endTime":1681.62,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1681.78,"endTime":1682.42,"body":"But the."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1682.74,"endTime":1683.5,"body":"The pri."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1683.5,"endTime":1685.22,"body":"I want to talk a little bit about, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1686.02,"endTime":1688.9,"body":"pricing for a second, because pricing,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1690.42,"endTime":1693.38,"body":"there's a wide range, and a lot of it depends"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1690.42,"endTime":1693.38,"body":"on."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1693.38,"endTime":1694.66,"body":"It's all over the map."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1695.22,"endTime":1697.06,"body":"So I think, like, going into it,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1697.86,"endTime":1701.7,"body":"know what your budget is before you look for"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1697.86,"endTime":1701.7,"body":"somebody,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1702.9,"endTime":1705.06,"body":"because I can almost guarantee that if you're."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1705.06,"endTime":1706.82,"body":"If you're looking for an artist and then"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1706.82,"endTime":1709.3,"body":"looking at your prices, you may be"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1706.82,"endTime":1709.3,"body":"disappointed."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1709.38,"endTime":1711.68,"body":"But if you have an idea of price range that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1709.38,"endTime":1711.68,"body":"you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1711.68,"endTime":1713.28,"body":"That you're comfortable spending,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1713.92,"endTime":1716.16,"body":"and then you go look for an artist within that"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1713.92,"endTime":1716.16,"body":"range."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1716.16,"endTime":1717.08,"body":"I think you'll set your."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1717.08,"endTime":1718.4,"body":"Your own expectations,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1718.72,"endTime":1719.76,"body":"like, a little bit better."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1720.16,"endTime":1725.48,"body":"But the more detail, the more that you include"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1720.16,"endTime":1725.48,"body":"on the piece, it's just going to be more"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1725.48,"endTime":1726.0,"body":"expensive."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1727.68,"endTime":1735.12,"body":"And I've bought anything in the range from"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1727.68,"endTime":1735.12,"body":"$150 to up to like $1,000."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1735.92,"endTime":1742.13,"body":"And my $1,000 piece of art has all six of my"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1735.92,"endTime":1742.13,"body":"characters with a very detailed background"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1742.29,"endTime":1743.17,"body":"with a lot of,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1745.65,"endTime":1745.93,"body":"like."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1745.93,"endTime":1747.09,"body":"That was a lot of work."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1747.09,"endTime":1749.81,"body":"Cause I had a lot of things involved in that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1749.81,"endTime":1752.33,"body":"But it doesn't have to be that range."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1752.33,"endTime":1756.69,"body":"And then I even got a quote from an artist"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1752.33,"endTime":1756.69,"body":"that was much more expensive than that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1756.69,"endTime":1758.29,"body":"But that was not my budget."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1758.37,"endTime":1760.93,"body":"So I was like, your art is gorgeous."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1761.25,"endTime":1762.05,"body":"I am poor."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1762.37,"endTime":1763.25,"body":"I can't afford."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1764.69,"endTime":1765.97,"body":"That's not the artist's fault."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1765.97,"endTime":1767.57,"body":"Like, I. That's another thing too, when you're"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1767.57,"endTime":1773.41,"body":"going into this is you're gonna see a range of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1767.57,"endTime":1773.41,"body":"products, prices that is not on the artist."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1773.49,"endTime":1774.93,"body":"You need to know what your budget is."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1775.41,"endTime":1775.89,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1777.73,"endTime":1780.21,"body":"I think some of these very popular,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1780.85,"endTime":1784.13,"body":"like, gorgeous pieces are very expensive."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1785.49,"endTime":1790.33,"body":"But when I got my books out and I was making"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1785.49,"endTime":1790.33,"body":"money from my books, I just used book money to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1790.33,"endTime":1791.01,"body":"buy more art."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1791.25,"endTime":1793.97,"body":"So, yeah, you can build up to some of this."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1795.09,"endTime":1798.49,"body":"Yeah. And I think it's helpful for"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1795.09,"endTime":1798.49,"body":"people to know sometimes artists book up ahead"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1798.49,"endTime":1798.89,"body":"of time."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1798.89,"endTime":1800.65,"body":"They're not always open for commissions."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1800.65,"endTime":1803.91,"body":"So if you really have your eyes set on"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1800.65,"endTime":1803.91,"body":"somebody, it can be helpful to get on their"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1803.91,"endTime":1804.75,"body":"schedule ahead of time."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1804.75,"endTime":1805.39,"body":"Just like any."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1805.55,"endTime":1806.39,"body":"Any artist."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1806.39,"endTime":1806.75,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1808.27,"endTime":1808.91,"body":"And then,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1809.63,"endTime":1811.99,"body":"yeah, some of them don't post their prices."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1811.99,"endTime":1812.83,"body":"So you."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1812.83,"endTime":1814.31,"body":"They expect you to ask."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1814.31,"endTime":1816.55,"body":"And it's totally fine if you say that's too"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1816.55,"endTime":1816.83,"body":"much."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1816.99,"endTime":1817.39,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1817.39,"endTime":1821.39,"body":"Like, if they're not posting their prices,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1817.39,"endTime":1821.39,"body":"it's because they're expecting you to ask."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1821.47,"endTime":1823.23,"body":"So don't hesitate to ask."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1823.39,"endTime":1825.71,"body":"I think when I was looking for that piece,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1826.11,"endTime":1828.19,"body":"that last piece that I wanted to do because I."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1828.19,"endTime":1830.2,"body":"I kind of waited too long, and I was like, I"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1830.2,"endTime":1830.96,"body":"really want this piece."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1830.96,"endTime":1831.44,"body":"When my."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1831.44,"endTime":1832.76,"body":"When Crimson comes out,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1833.72,"endTime":1835.16,"body":"um, and so I,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1836.12,"endTime":1837.36,"body":"you know, life got in the way."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1837.36,"endTime":1839.04,"body":"So I was a few months out, and I was like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1839.04,"endTime":1840.52,"body":"I gotta find someone who could do this fast."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1840.52,"endTime":1843.04,"body":"So I asked around to a bunch of people asking"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1843.04,"endTime":1847.36,"body":"for prices and timeline to try to find someone"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1843.04,"endTime":1847.36,"body":"who could do that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1847.36,"endTime":1847.84,"body":"And it worked out."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1847.84,"endTime":1848.84,"body":"It ended up working out great."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1848.84,"endTime":1851.72,"body":"But, yeah, that's an important consideration"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1848.84,"endTime":1851.72,"body":"too."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1852.12,"endTime":1852.6,"body":"Yes,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1853.16,"endTime":1854.36,"body":"that is very important."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1855.25,"endTime":1856.13,"body":"Um, you can get on."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1856.13,"endTime":1856.93,"body":"Wait Lists."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1857.25,"endTime":1861.53,"body":"But there's like, one artist that I've wanted"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1857.25,"endTime":1861.53,"body":"to buy art from for a very long time, and her"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1861.53,"endTime":1863.57,"body":"commissions have been closed for, like, more"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1861.53,"endTime":1863.57,"body":"than a year."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1864.21,"endTime":1864.97,"body":"So they."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1864.97,"endTime":1866.37,"body":"People book up really fast."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1866.53,"endTime":1867.05,"body":"Some of."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1867.05,"endTime":1868.53,"body":"Some of the more popular artists."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1868.53,"endTime":1870.05,"body":"And again, I'm finding them on Instagram."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1870.05,"endTime":1871.97,"body":"This is the way that I'm finding them."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1872.37,"endTime":1874.05,"body":"Or I'm also finding, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1875.25,"endTime":1879.57,"body":"Brit. Brit K. S, who's an author that works"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1875.25,"endTime":1879.57,"body":"with us and that's been on the podcast before."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1879.73,"endTime":1880.81,"body":"I love her artwork."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1880.81,"endTime":1882.93,"body":"So I go troll her art page."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1882.93,"endTime":1883.29,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1883.29,"endTime":1885.41,"body":"Like, I, like, look at her page and I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1885.41,"endTime":1886.09,"body":"who are your artists?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1886.09,"endTime":1886.85,"body":"And then I'll go to that."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1887.23,"endTime":1888.59,"body":"The queen of commissioning art."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1888.59,"endTime":1888.99,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1889.63,"endTime":1893.67,"body":"So, like, that's how I find a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1889.63,"endTime":1893.67,"body":"artists that I use is that I find them"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1893.67,"endTime":1894.03,"body":"through,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1895.15,"endTime":1898.23,"body":"like, other authors that have purchased their"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1895.15,"endTime":1898.23,"body":"art."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1898.23,"endTime":1899.79,"body":"And I'm like, that's beautiful."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1900.27,"endTime":1900.99,"body":"Give me that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1903.47,"endTime":1904.79,"body":"But. But if they're."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1904.79,"endTime":1906.47,"body":"If they don't have their prices posted or if"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1906.47,"endTime":1909.31,"body":"you have additional questions, it's part of"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1906.47,"endTime":1909.31,"body":"the process."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1909.31,"endTime":1910.55,"body":"So don't feel embarrassed."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1910.55,"endTime":1912.35,"body":"If you email and then someone comes back with"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1912.35,"endTime":1914.21,"body":"their prices and you're like, thank you so"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1912.35,"endTime":1914.21,"body":"much."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1914.21,"endTime":1917.21,"body":"I need to find a different range or a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1914.21,"endTime":1917.21,"body":"different timeline."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1917.69,"endTime":1921.45,"body":"So when I'm reaching out, I'm always asking,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1917.69,"endTime":1921.45,"body":"what is your price range for the."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1921.45,"endTime":1926.05,"body":"This amount of characters, for color and for a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1921.45,"endTime":1926.05,"body":"background and for."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1926.05,"endTime":1928.41,"body":"Usually I do at least half body."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1930.01,"endTime":1931.69,"body":"That all is part of it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1932.25,"endTime":1934.25,"body":"And then how many characters I want in the"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1932.25,"endTime":1934.25,"body":"piece."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1935.61,"endTime":1939.73,"body":"And when I'm asking for those things, they"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1935.61,"endTime":1939.73,"body":"come back with like, well, here's how much it"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1939.73,"endTime":1940.13,"body":"would be."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1940.13,"endTime":1940.85,"body":"Let me know."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1941.17,"endTime":1944.53,"body":"And then if you're like, oh, I need a"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1941.17,"endTime":1944.53,"body":"different timeline."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":1944.53,"endTime":1944.85,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1944.85,"endTime":1946.01,"body":"I need a different price range."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1946.01,"endTime":1946.37,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1946.37,"endTime":1948.61,"body":"But you're not offending anybody."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1949.25,"endTime":1951.09,"body":"This is how the business works."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1951.33,"endTime":1953.53,"body":"But it's always better to be, like, upfront"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1953.53,"endTime":1957.25,"body":"about it and communicate about it than like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1953.53,"endTime":1957.25,"body":"ghost people or."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1959.57,"endTime":1961.77,"body":"Or like, get started on something."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1961.77,"endTime":1963.01,"body":"Because many people will."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1963.09,"endTime":1964.85,"body":"That's another part of this that I should add."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1966.05,"endTime":1970.45,"body":"Some artists will ask for a deposit to secure"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1966.05,"endTime":1970.45,"body":"your spot."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1970.69,"endTime":1971.57,"body":"Very normal."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1972.05,"endTime":1974.69,"body":"Some artists won't like this piece that I just"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1972.05,"endTime":1974.69,"body":"sent you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1975.01,"endTime":1975.89,"body":"That artist."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1977.97,"endTime":1983.81,"body":"That artist said that I don't have to pay her"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1977.97,"endTime":1983.81,"body":"until the piece is complete."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1984.45,"endTime":1988.93,"body":"She's the only artist that I've ever worked"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1984.45,"endTime":1988.93,"body":"with that has had that process."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1989.97,"endTime":1994.87,"body":"Every other artist that I've worked for has"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1989.97,"endTime":1994.87,"body":"asked either for a deposit or for the full"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1994.87,"endTime":1997.63,"body":"amount once we confirm the pose sketch."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":1998.67,"endTime":2000.83,"body":"So then, like, we get the pose locked in,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2001.39,"endTime":2002.83,"body":"and then that's when you Pay,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2003.15,"endTime":2004.43,"body":"like, for how much it is."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2004.51,"endTime":2006.87,"body":"So different artists have different processes"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2006.87,"endTime":2008.589,"body":"too, which you can ask for."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2008.91,"endTime":2009.55,"body":"Like, what."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2009.63,"endTime":2011.11,"body":"When are you expecting payment?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2011.11,"endTime":2011.71,"body":"How much?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2012.59,"endTime":2015.47,"body":"At what point do you want this?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2012.59,"endTime":2015.47,"body":"Or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2015.79,"endTime":2018.51,"body":"can I pay it in advance or do you want to wait"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2015.79,"endTime":2018.51,"body":"until it's over?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2019.18,"endTime":2019.58,"body":"Um,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2019.9,"endTime":2021.5,"body":"they have different preferences, too."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2021.58,"endTime":2022.06,"body":"And that's."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2022.06,"endTime":2023.46,"body":"Yeah, that's all to protect them."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2023.46,"endTime":2024.3,"body":"To protect you."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2024.46,"endTime":2026.34,"body":"They, you know, they've done this a million"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2026.34,"endTime":2027.42,"body":"times with lots of people."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2027.42,"endTime":2030.62,"body":"They know how to protect their own boundaries."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2030.62,"endTime":2032.06,"body":"So that's where that's coming from."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2032.06,"endTime":2033.18,"body":"And super normal."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2033.58,"endTime":2034.38,"body":"Yeah, very."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2035.42,"endTime":2036.94,"body":"Uh, what else?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2037.5,"endTime":2038.38,"body":"Anything else?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2038.86,"endTime":2040.62,"body":"Geez. We were like this."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2041.58,"endTime":2046.3,"body":"If you've been thinking about it, I"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2041.58,"endTime":2046.3,"body":"feel like it's a. It's a really good way to."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2047.81,"endTime":2048.93,"body":"Sorry, can you hear him?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2049.25,"endTime":2050.05,"body":"That's okay."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2051.97,"endTime":2052.77,"body":"Not a big deal."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2053.65,"endTime":2055.57,"body":"Hey, guys that are listening, everybody."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2055.57,"endTime":2057.41,"body":"Not guys, girls, most of you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2057.41,"endTime":2058.13,"body":"It doesn't matter."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2058.21,"endTime":2060.29,"body":"Friends that are listening to this podcast."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2060.37,"endTime":2064.33,"body":"Did you know we have real lives that also"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2060.37,"endTime":2064.33,"body":"exist around us?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2064.33,"endTime":2065.81,"body":"We have husbands, we have children."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2065.89,"endTime":2068.09,"body":"We have lives that exist around us at the same"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2068.09,"endTime":2069.09,"body":"time we're recording things."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2069.33,"endTime":2069.77,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2069.77,"endTime":2070.01,"body":"We're."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2070.01,"endTime":2070.65,"body":"We're cool on that."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2070.65,"endTime":2071.29,"body":"Okay. All right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2071.29,"endTime":2071.53,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2071.53,"endTime":2071.97,"body":"We're cool."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2071.97,"endTime":2072.45,"body":"We're being."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2072.45,"endTime":2073.57,"body":"We're being real about it."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2073.96,"endTime":2074.84,"body":"Okay. No,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2075.32,"endTime":2078.6,"body":"the last thing I was gonna say is everyone"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2075.32,"endTime":2078.6,"body":"should do this."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2078.6,"endTime":2081.44,"body":"If you've been thinking about it, if you've"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2078.6,"endTime":2081.44,"body":"been on the fence, if you've been eyeing"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2081.44,"endTime":2085.2,"body":"someone's Instagram page and thinking about"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2081.44,"endTime":2085.2,"body":"ordering art, you do not have to wait until"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2085.2,"endTime":2085.72,"body":"you're published."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2085.72,"endTime":2087.56,"body":"You do not have to wait until you get an"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2085.72,"endTime":2087.56,"body":"agent."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2087.56,"endTime":2088.08,"body":"You do not."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2088.08,"endTime":2089.479,"body":"I wish I hadn't waited so long."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2089.479,"endTime":2096.36,"body":"I knew a lot of friends who bought artwork for"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2089.479,"endTime":2096.36,"body":"themselves before,"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2096.84,"endTime":2099.08,"body":"you know, they had those big milestones met."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2099.16,"endTime":2101.19,"body":"And I was always jealous of them."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2101.19,"endTime":2104.67,"body":"And I was like, why don't I just do it?"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2101.19,"endTime":2104.67,"body":"It can feel like you can't invest that money"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2104.67,"endTime":2105.87,"body":"in your own happiness."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2106.19,"endTime":2108.15,"body":"And so you've, like, had some kind of payoff."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2108.15,"endTime":2109.23,"body":"And I think that's silly."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2109.23,"endTime":2111.47,"body":"So my last advice would just be go for it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2111.95,"endTime":2112.51,"body":"I agree."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2112.51,"endTime":2113.55,"body":"I completely agree."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2113.55,"endTime":2114.91,"body":"And I think, like, when."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2115.23,"endTime":2120.27,"body":"When you start to treat this whole process"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2115.23,"endTime":2120.27,"body":"like a business where, like, you're."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2120.43,"endTime":2121.87,"body":"You're pursuing a goal,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2122.67,"endTime":2124.03,"body":"you want to sell books,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2124.43,"endTime":2126.27,"body":"maybe you want to make a career out of this."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2128.44,"endTime":2130.76,"body":"Buying artwork is a tax write off."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2130.76,"endTime":2132.28,"body":"It is an expense of your business."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2133.0,"endTime":2135.96,"body":"It is something that you can also use to"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2133.0,"endTime":2135.96,"body":"promote your business."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2136.84,"endTime":2142.12,"body":"So when I stopped thinking of it as, like,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2136.84,"endTime":2142.12,"body":"this is a very large purchase,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2142.6,"endTime":2146.36,"body":"and I instead was like, this is an investment"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2142.6,"endTime":2146.36,"body":"into selling books."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2146.6,"endTime":2148.76,"body":"For me, that gave me a lot of permission."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2149.8,"endTime":2154.28,"body":"I think regardless of whether or not you want"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2149.8,"endTime":2154.28,"body":"to sell books and market them, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2154.28,"endTime":2154.45,"body":"matter."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2154.68,"endTime":2154.88,"body":"Matter."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2154.88,"endTime":2155.72,"body":"I agree with you."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2155.72,"endTime":2156.52,"body":"You should do it to."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2156.52,"endTime":2160.28,"body":"To have fun with it because you deserve it and"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2156.52,"endTime":2160.28,"body":"it's fun to do."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2161.24,"endTime":2163.32,"body":"But if you do need a little bit of permission."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2165.16,"endTime":2167.08,"body":"This is part of book marketing,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2167.56,"endTime":2168.2,"body":"truly."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2168.36,"endTime":2173.4,"body":"And like, yeah, I use it all the time in my."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2173.56,"endTime":2176.04,"body":"In my graphics, on my TikToks."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2176.04,"endTime":2176.52,"body":"I use."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2176.6,"endTime":2182.08,"body":"I try to use this artwork everywhere because"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2176.6,"endTime":2182.08,"body":"it's going to make my money back."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2182.8,"endTime":2183.2,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2183.2,"endTime":2184.08,"body":"Like, people will."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2184.88,"endTime":2185.44,"body":"I mean,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2185.76,"endTime":2186.4,"body":"I don't."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2186.64,"endTime":2187.96,"body":"I am the type of reader."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2187.96,"endTime":2189.52,"body":"I think many readers are the same."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2189.6,"endTime":2191.04,"body":"If you see a good piece of art,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2191.44,"endTime":2193.68,"body":"you're like, dang, I want to read that book."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2194.56,"endTime":2196.72,"body":"So it can do a lot for you."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2197.36,"endTime":2199.88,"body":"Yeah. So it's worth it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2199.88,"endTime":2201.12,"body":"Do it, go for it,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2201.92,"endTime":2202.64,"body":"go for it."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2203.52,"endTime":2207.2,"body":"And last thing I know we covered a lot today,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2207.84,"endTime":2209.84,"body":"but this is a process that is."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2210.72,"endTime":2212.88,"body":"I think I learned a lot by word of mouth."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2213.04,"endTime":2213.44,"body":"You."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2213.52,"endTime":2217.4,"body":"You can ask your friends, like, you can DM"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2213.52,"endTime":2217.4,"body":"other authors."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2217.4,"endTime":2217.92,"body":"I mean,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2218.4,"endTime":2225.04,"body":"I think I had DM'd an author that I didn't"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2218.4,"endTime":2225.04,"body":"know who had worked with an artist that I"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2225.04,"endTime":2225.92,"body":"wanted to work with."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2225.92,"endTime":2228.08,"body":"And I was like, hey, I saw that you had this"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2228.08,"endTime":2228.4,"body":"art."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2228.88,"endTime":2230.08,"body":"Did you like the process?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2230.64,"endTime":2232.56,"body":"You know, did you feel like this person,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2235.37,"endTime":2238.01,"body":"like, delivered on the piece that you asked"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2235.37,"endTime":2238.01,"body":"for?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2238.57,"endTime":2239.57,"body":"I think it's gorgeous."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2239.57,"endTime":2240.65,"body":"But was it a good process?"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2240.65,"endTime":2245.49,"body":"And I asked that author, who I didn't know,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2240.65,"endTime":2245.49,"body":"and she then talked to me about, like, what it"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2245.49,"endTime":2245.93,"body":"was like."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2246.49,"endTime":2251.85,"body":"So I. There's a lot of, like, timidity"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2246.49,"endTime":2251.85,"body":"sometimes around asking questions."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2252.89,"endTime":2254.01,"body":"I don't know of any."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2254.01,"endTime":2257.21,"body":"I have not met one author who is not willing"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2257.45,"endTime":2258.89,"body":"to help another author."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2258.97,"endTime":2260.65,"body":"So if you're confused or you want."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2260.73,"endTime":2261.85,"body":"You need some advice,"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2262.31,"endTime":2264.07,"body":"like, talk to the people around you."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2265.03,"endTime":2267.95,"body":"Well, if you want to build a"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2265.03,"endTime":2267.95,"body":"successful, fulfilling and sustainable writing"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2267.95,"endTime":2270.31,"body":"life that works for you, you've got to get on"},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2267.95,"endTime":2270.31,"body":"our email list."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2270.55,"endTime":2274.15,"body":"Sign up now to get our free email"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2270.55,"endTime":2274.15,"body":"course, the Magic of Character Arcs."},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2274.15,"endTime":2278.229,"body":"After seven days of email magic, you'll have"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2274.15,"endTime":2278.229,"body":"the power to keep readers flipping pages all"},{"speaker":"Rachel","startTime":2278.229,"endTime":2278.79,"body":"through the night."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2278.79,"endTime":2279.79,"body":"Link in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Emily","startTime":2279.79,"endTime":2280.55,"body":"We'll see you there."}]}