Story Magic

119 - To prologue or to not prologue

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Today, Emily & Rachel talk about prologues!

What you’ll learn from this episode:

  • Subjectivity is part of this process and industry 
  • What makes prologues not work
  • What makes prologues work
  • How trends change over time

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Rachel:

Hey, writers. Welcome back to Story Magic, the podcast that will help you write a book you're damn proud of.

Emily:

I'm Emily.

Rachel:

And I'm Rachel.

Emily:

And today we are talking about prologues. Do you love them? Do you hate them? Everybody has an opinion.

Rachel:

It feels like I'm a certified hater.

Emily:

So what's your opinion, Rachel?

Rachel:

I hate them. No, I don't hate them. This is an unfair critique. What I'm about to say. The last time I read a prologue, it was in Realm Breaker by Victoria Aveyard. And I was so bored, I closed the book, and I have not picked it back up since. Unfair. I. I am positive that's a wonderful book. I know it is. Bored. I was bored. So I think I'm a hater of prologues when they are 27 pages and when they're incredibly boring. Again, unfair. I know it. But anyway, I think prologues are. I think they're not done very well very often. What about you?

Emily:

Oh, I love a good prologue. A good one. A good one.

Rachel:

What makes a good prologue? Tell us.

Emily:

Well, it's so funny. So it's so funny because we can go into, like, what makes a good prologue and all of that, but it's like. It's one of those writing things that I feel like people just really have opinions about. Like, I was so. So my current project has what I would call a prologue. It's a scene that happens for, like, I don't even remember my own book three or four years before.

Rachel:

Three.

Emily:

Thank you.

Rachel:

You're welcome.

Emily:

Can you tell I'm, like, writing this book out of my brain for submission. Anyway, so I'm taking it on submission soon. And my agent was like, oh, let's just call it a prologue, because editors. Editors really hate prologues. And I was like, okay, Laura, I will. I will make it chapter one. So that's what I did. I just said, you know, it's chapter one, and then three years later, chapter two is three years later. Yep. Which I think is fine. Like, a lot of people do that, and I think that's. That's. You can do that. Especially when you have, like, it's the same person. Like, same point of view. You're just jumping time. But in my head, that's a prologue. But anyway, so we changed it to chapter one, literally. So editors won't be like, prologue. Nope.

Rachel:

Yes.

Emily:

And I was texting my friend about it who just went on submission, and she sold. So she's on submission with the second book, but she went on submission with a book last Year that sold. And she was. So I was texting her about it, and I was like, yeah, she told me not to call it a prologue. And she's like, that's funny. My editor bought my book because of my prologue. And I was like, it's all. Nobody knows. It's subjective.

Rachel:

Look, you guys, this isn't one of those instances where how often do we tell you that this industry is subjective? This is another one of those times where this industry is so subjective that an editor just might decide they don't like prologues and not want your book, or they might decide, I actually really like prologues and they want your book.

Emily:

And it.

Rachel:

It has nothing to do with your book.

Emily:

You can't control that.

Rachel:

You can't control that and has nothing to do with how great that prologue is. It just has to do with, like, I prefer them or I don't. Period.

Emily:

Yeah. Okay, so let's talk about why. Why. Why is there so much hate for prologues? Like, what? I feel like there's been enough bad prologues out there that there's, like, this just disdain that people have for them. And I don't think that's because prologues don't work. I think it's because there have been a lot of bad prologues. So, yes, let's talk about what makes a bad prologue, and then we can talk about what makes a good one. So why do you hate them?

Rachel:

I don't, because I think a lot of the times authors and I. I do want to clarify. I am not attributing these reasons to the same thing I was saying about RealMbreaker. Again, I have not finished reading Realm Breaker. I don't know how effective that prologue is. I just got bored. But here was the thing. That prologue is long. And I felt like when you called it a prologue, you were telling me a lot of information that I immediately knew was not relevant because it's a prologue. So when I started that book and when I picked up that book, I was like, here is a super duper long prologue. None of this is important. It is important because that's what prologues need to do, is they need to show you important things. Otherwise, wait. But at that time, I was like, this is going on for a really long time, and we haven't even gotten to like the character yet. So I simply got bored. I think bad prologues are when we're trying to like. And again, I'm not saying groundbreakers prologue is bad by these means. I am now transitioning into why I have a problem with them generally is because I think authors will dump this really heavy information in them and they'll be like, ooh, but you need to know about the council that determined the Fellowship of the Ring. And here's the prologue. And here, watch the council. And then we're going to go to the hero who. Who's, like, not even close to the council. I'm like, I don't care. I don't care. I don't need to see all these people that I won't meet for another hundred pages. So I think prologues end up dumping, like, way too much information. I think that they are. That they can be really long. So I think a prologue that is more than, like, five or ten pages. No, pass. I don't want it. And I think prologues that have no connection to the main character are not interesting to me. And, and. And they. They do become relevant. So I'm not. I'm just saying, like, if I finish a prologue and then I go to a completely different person in a completely different time and space, perhaps years, years, years later, I'm like, leave me alone. Yeah, no, I'm gonna. Like a prophecy. Who cares about.

Emily:

I do think this has a lot to do with market expectations and reader desires right now. Because I do. I think that the reason prologues have such a bad rep is because of everything you're talking about. Because so often in the past they have been used that way to show us the council meeting that set up the circumstances for the hero, you know, hero's journey. That was in time where readers wanted that.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Emily:

And I think that right now, the. The general trend, obviously not all readers, but the general trend is that people want to be sucked into a book immediately. And if you're sucked into a circumstance that then doesn't, like, it's not immediately relevant to the next chapter, then your reader has to, like, reinvest. Right. And I feel like that is something that, frankly, the world just isn't really willing to do right now because we all have, like, really short attention spans. And I'm talking about myself, too. Right? And so there's this expectation when you see that word prologue that I'm going to have to reinvest in the second chapter. And I think that's where, like, my agent's advice and like, the this, you know, editors putting books down because of prologues, is this, like, this fear that because you are, like, readers are going to have to invest two times means, like, it's not. We're not going to try to sell that, right. Like, I think that's the market sort of assumption right now, whether that's good or bad. I think it just is what it is. And I mean, it's. It's tricky. Like, I. So I always think of Way of Kings. It has, like, four prologues. There are, like, short stories at the beginning of that book, and it took me three times to get. I love that book. I think it's brilliant. And I know why he did the prologues the way that he did. Like, they serve a very specific purpose, but I had to reinvest in not only a new character, but also new world building every single time. Yeah, I started one of those four prologues, and it was just exhausting. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work to sink into someone new. Somebody new. A new experience, a new situation, a new part of the world, a new, you know, like, all this stuff. And so I think that is the reason, like, unless you absolutely need to reveal that information for the people. For people to understand what's happening in the first chapter, I would recommend trying to not do it. But that doesn't mean it can't be done.

Rachel:

Yes. I mean, I agree. It's a big ask to ask your reader to read a prologue and then to ask them to then read the first chapter. It just is a big ask. And going back to personal preference, some people are fine with that, and some people aren't. So sometimes you make choices knowing that it won't appeal to every reader and stand behind that choice. If you want to have a prologue and you're listening to me, hate on prologues. But you're like, but I really want one, go for it. I don't care. I mean, you have to make choices when you're writing, knowing that not everybody's going to like them, but you make them anyway. But I agree. I think, like, prologues to me are a 201, a 2, a 301 skill. I think they are a skill that experienced writers do well because they understand how to use them effectively. I think dumping information because you feel like it's important. Okay, maybe I should frame it like this. I think most of the time, prologues are infotech dumps.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

But if you know how you're delivering this information and you know why you're delivering it in this way, and it's not going to be too big of an ask for your reader.

Emily:

Sure. Yeah.

Rachel:

Go for it, I think.

Emily:

Or if you're Sanderson and your readers will do anything.

Rachel:

Exactly.

Emily:

Do whatever the hell you Want Sanderson.

Rachel:

Has street cred now where, like, we trust him. Right. We trust him that whatever he's putting on the page is probably intentional. Like, whether or not you like Sanderson's work, I think we can all agree that man is experienced. He knows what he's doing or he's doing things for reasons.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

But if you're picking up someone that you don't know, and this is, you know, the first time, let's frame it from the author. If you're expecting a reader to pick up your book and they don't know you and they don't trust you, I think you're asking a lot of them to go through a prologue.

Emily:

Yeah, I agree. And like, Victoria Aveyard is a great example. So I have read all of realmbreaker. I agree with you. That prologue was so freaking long.

Rachel:

Okay. I know. I'm glad. I'm glad. It's not just me.

Emily:

She was modeling. She modeled that book. She structured that book as if it were a Lord of the Rings type adventure. And so there was a reason. Right. There were like, there were genre reasons why she had a prologue. Um, and. But that, you know, she knew her readers and she had street cred. She has a lot of books behind her before she wrote Rum Breaker, and so, you know, that worked in her favor. Or maybe not. You know, like, who knows how many readers put it down because of the prologue? Like, you just don't. It's impossible to know. But I do think, you know, she clearly made that decision for a specific reason, and it's going to work for some people, and it's going to work for, not work for others. But that street cred went a long way for her, in my opinion, and I agree with you. I think a prologue is. It's an advanced skill. And I often see newbie writers writing prologues because they are afraid that without the context that the prologue's gonna have, that their readers won't understand what's going on. And that is not the right reason to have a prologue.

Rachel:

Exactly. Yes, I completely agree. Yeah.

Emily:

You need to learn the skill of weaving your world building and your context and your history in among your character's goals and motivations. And all those things like that can. You don't need a prologue to do that. And your prologue's probably going to turn people off if that's the reason that it's included.

Rachel:

Yes, I think that's a really important question to ask of yourself. So listing these questions out. If the only reason you're including a prologue is because you think people will not understand your book without one. Reevaluate. Because you may need to level up your chapter one. You may need to level up your world building skills. You may need to level up your show. Don't tell. You may need to add more goals. Like they should not be so important that without it, the book does not make sense. I think that's problematic or an issue. I also think only including a prologue because it's common in the genre is also a bad choice because I've also heard people say, well, I have a prologue because fantasies always have prologues. And I'm like, number one, no, they don't. Number two, bad reason, like, because then you're falling back on all these other things where you're probably info dumping. You're probably not contextualizing your story strong enough in chapter one, or it might be too long. I do think prologues are more common in some genres than other genres. That's not to say that they only exist in some genres, but knowing your genre, knowing what readers will tolerate and what they have energy for, is very helpful. Because in some genres we don't have time. Nobody has time for that. Don't put it there. But in other genres we're like, no, I'm happy to settle in with a 700 page epic. Give me 20 pages of prologue, no big deal. You know, like. Yeah, yeah, I think some people want that or they expect that. So, yeah, I think those are both, like reevaluate kind of questions and making sure you, you understand what you're doing with those pages. And please make them as short as they can be.

Emily:

Yeah, My. I think my biggest advice would be if you insist on having a prologue, it needs to set up the question that you're going to spend the book answering. Yeah. Like, I think that's when the, that is, when I have seen prologues be the most effective is when they establish a question that the reader must know the answer to. So I've been reading a lot of thrillers lately and there. It's actually more common than you would think to have a prologue in a, in a thriller or a murder mystery, because the prologue is about the person that got hurt or the, you know, the victims of the story. And you don't get all the information. Right. The prologue is just, oops, somebody's running from a serial killer and did she make it? We don't know. Right. And then it ends. And then we go to the investigator or whatever or the main character of the story, and you want to find out you. You need to know what happened. And actually I've been noticing because I read like the beginnings of a bunch of thrillers because I was trying to figure out how to start my book and I actually found that there was like a letdown after the prologue because the prologue was so interesting. And then it was like, oh, now I'm in the day to day of this person. And it's like, I know it's going to tie together. Right. I know this is going to be the sleuth who finds out what happened to the person. But I'm like, where's the. Where's the suspense? Like, we just dropped all the tension. So, you know, you want to be careful of that too. But I do think, like, if you can set up a mystery in your prologue.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Emily:

And then. And then your reader will know that you're going to spend the book answering that mystery. I think that is where it's most effective. But if you're just giving information about history or context or world building or whatever. Yeah. You probably don't need it.

Rachel:

You know, which prologue I'm tired of the prologue of the baby's birth. Flash forward 20 years. Here they are. As a teenager, I read a fantasy romance that was like that. I'll call it a romance fantasy. It was more heavily on the romance than the fantasy, for sure. And it showed like the whole prologue was about a prophecy being introduced because the baby was born. And then flash forward, she's not like other girls. And here's this special girl who is the center of this prophecy. Boring. Overdone did. I kept reading because it wasn't very long, so success check mark in that column. At least I didn't have to waste a lot of time doing it. But I mean, I think there are some that are overdone, which is like, well, I'm going to show you how this baby was born amidst fire and water. And that means they're the center of this prophecy and they're the one child to bridge the gap between humans and demons forever. Just over it.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

And you can do what you want. If you have a prologue of your baby being born, fine. It's okay.

Emily:

Have a good reason for it. Make sure, please.

Rachel:

Because I'm. They're so overdone, I think. I mean, it's like, that's like your.

Emily:

That's like an 1800s technique. Yeah, it worked back then. We're tired of it a lot.

Rachel:

We've seen a lot of them. I don't really care if there's a prophecy Write it down, and I'll read one page of it, and then I can have the thing. But I don't necessarily need to see the. The child being born in order to understand. This is important.

Emily:

Yeah. Harry Potter is. I hate talking about Harry Potter because. Bleh.

Rachel:

I know.

Emily:

But. But it is an example of one done well in the sense that there's a mystery about this baby. Right. That is arisen. And then the first chapter is about the baby. Right. So we're. It's like, literally, like the. There is a tie to. To the next chapter. We're not. Where we don't have to sink into an entirely different world. Like, we're at the same house, same baby. It's just 11 years later, and we're in somebody else's head. I'm also thinking of the Invisible life of Addie Larue.

Rachel:

Oh, yeah.

Emily:

There's, like. I don't think it's labeled a prologue, but there is a prologue at the beginning of it where she's running away from her wedding and gonna make a deal with the devil. And that is one. Like I. Like I said earlier, that builds intrigue. You're like, what is she running from? Like, why make a deal with the devil? Like, I need to know more. Right. So if it can do that, I think. I think it can be worth it. Especially if your first chapters aren't as intriguing. Right. Yes. As that mystery question that you're posing in the prologue.

Rachel:

Yeah. I also think I do a lot of my storytelling learning in movies and TV shows. I think this is one area that does not equate well. I think there are a lot of movies that do, like, a prologue type setup that does not translate well into books and vice versa. Because I'm thinking, like, the movie that's kind of coming to mind if. Is the Hunger Games. Because there's no prologue in the Hunger Games book. But I do think in the Hunger Games movie, there's, like, a little introduction about the districts and about the war, like, how things happened, and then we go to Katniss. Like, that works in movie form.

Emily:

That is in the book.

Rachel:

Is it in the book?

Emily:

I actually think it might be. I don't have it on me.

Rachel:

It's over there in the bookshelf.

Emily:

Let us know. Let us know, folks. I actually.

Rachel:

It might be long. It cannot be very long, though.

Emily:

No, it's not. If it is, it's, like, less than a page.

Rachel:

Yeah. Yeah.

Emily:

But that's also an old book.

Rachel:

That's an old book.

Emily:

True.

Rachel:

Like, at this point eight nine. Like around there.

Emily:

Yeah, yeah. I'm thinking also in television. So I'm thinking of, like, Rogue One.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Emily:

Where you get that little thing about her as a kid and, you know, everything that happened to her. And I think a. That's effective because it's still her. It's about her. It's not about somebody else. So we don't have to leave that. But it's also, television doesn't ask as much of the reader in terms of, like, the energy and like, the energy that it takes to sink into a new point of view or a new perspective or a new setting or new context. Right. And so television can get away with, like, I think the Wheel of Time did this in television, probably also in the book. But, like, you know, where there's these prologues that introduce this intrigue and, like, you know, maybe some world building and show us kind of the. The adventure we're about to go on before we go meet the boring, mundane hero. Right. There's. There is benefit to that, but in. In television, it's not asking as much of you because you're just watching it unfold. You don't have to sink your. Your brain and your experience into the words, into the perspective. And so it's a different.

Rachel:

Different experience.

Emily:

Different lift. Yeah.

Rachel:

Yeah. So if you're. If, like, your favorite TV show ever has a prologue, just, you know, make sure you're considering how well things are going to translate.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Onto the page. Because that's one aspect of the different medium of storytelling that I don't think is one to one, but a lot of storytelling can be applied to both. Both things. And I think it's really effective to study movies and TV to learn about craft, maybe just not for privilege.

Emily:

Or internal processing.

Rachel:

Yeah. Or internal processing. Like voiceovers. They just do it differently. It's a whole different way of experiencing.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Character.

Emily:

Cool.

Rachel:

Anyway, so make your prologues, you know, hooky enough that they're asking a question we can spend the story unraveling or answering, that they're. They're not too long, that they're still focused on, like, a character that we can understand or that. Or that will translate into the first chapter. Well, anything else to summarize?

Emily:

No, I think that's good. Yeah. The more you can hook the reader with intrigue and make sure that you have to do the least amount of work when they enter your chapter one, the better. And if you can get away with labeling it chapter one instead of the problem, do that.

Rachel:

I think I've now that you said that. Like, I think I have told a recent one on one client the same thing. Like this is. No, I did because we have. The first chapter is like in a totally different time and place and we, we were talking about calling it prologue and I was like, don't do that.

Emily:

If it's the same point of view, you can get away with not doing that.

Rachel:

Just call it something different. Yep, we're going in to chapter two with the main character.

Emily:

Alrighty.

Rachel:

If you want to build a successful, fulfilling and sustainable writing life that works for you, you've got to get on our email list.

Emily:

Sign up now to get our free email course, the Magic of Character Arcs. After seven days of email magic, you'll have the power to keep your readers flipping pages all through the night.

Rachel:

Link in the show notes. We'll see you there. Bye. Bye.