Can a Marriage Survive an Affair? Tim Tedder on Infidelity, Trust, and Real Recovery

In this episode of the Driven 2 Thrive Broadcast, Brent sits down with licensed counselor and affair recovery specialist Tim Tedder to have one of the most uncomfortable but necessary conversations men can face: what happens after infidelity.

This is not a conversation about excuses. It is about ownership, truth, shame, trauma, trust, and whether something deeply broken can actually be rebuilt.

What Listeners Will Get:
Listeners will gain a grounded look at what affairs do to both people in a marriage, why infidelity often begins long before sex, and what real accountability looks like after trust has been destroyed. Tim brings both professional wisdom and personal experience, having walked through the consequences of his own affair before dedicating his work to helping others heal.

Big Takeaways:

• Affairs often begin with drift, secrecy, disconnection, and compromise.
• Betrayal creates real trauma for the spouse who was hurt.
• Saying “I’m sorry” is not the same as taking responsibility.
• Shame can either bury a man or become the doorway to real change.
• Recovery is possible, but it requires truth, ownership, patience, and sustained transformation.
• The betrayed spouse should not be forced into becoming the “warden” of the relationship.
• Healing may rebuild the marriage, or it may rebuild the individual, but either way the work matters.

Why Listen:
If you have ever wondered whether a marriage can survive infidelity, or what a man must actually do after breaking trust, this episode gives a sober, honest, and hopeful answer. It is not easy. It is not quick. But according to Tim Tedder, healing is possible when truth and responsibility lead the way.

Connect with Tim: https://www.affairhealing.com/tim-tedder-coaching

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Transcript

Can a Marriage Survive an Affair? Tim Tedder on Infidelity, Trust, and Real Recovery

Brent Dowlen: [00:00:00] Tim, when a man has destroyed the trust in his marriage, and then we're talking about someone who actually is like, you know, repentant. They regret it, they know it was a mistake. Yeah. What's harder, facing his spouse or facing himself, in your opinion? 

Tim Tedder: Well, facing the spouse is often a scary thing, but facing themselves, I think, if they're really willing to do that, is much more frightening.

There's a lot that's required, a lot of br- bravery, a lot of work that's required into really looking into ourselves, looking into our hearts, and saying, "What does this tell me about me, and what did I need to really give attention to if this relationship, marriage, or me is going to heal on the other side of this?"

Speaker: Gentlemen, most men don't plan to have an affair. Most men don't wake up one day and say, "You know what? Today I'm gonna destroy my marriage." But they drift, they justify, they [00:01:00] compartmentalize, and then one day everything explodes. Today's conversation isn't about scandal. It's about responsibility. It's about what happens after the worst decision of your life.

Because whether you're the betrayed spouse or the man who crossed the line, the real question is, can something broken this badly actually be rebuilt? Tim Tedder is not just a counselor who works affair recovery and has for the last 20 years. He's the man who lived it, and that's how he got to where he is now, where he's working with other couples who are in this exact spot, because not everybody realizes that an affair isn't necessarily the end.

Today we're talking about what really takes place to make it work after an affair without sugarcoating, without playing games, without false hope. We're gonna roll to our favorite sponsor over at MyPillow, and then we're gonna dive right in this with Tim [00:02:00] Tedder.

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Speaker 3: The Driven 2 Thrive broadcast, purpose, growth, and lasting impact for men. Helping men go from living to thriving, purpose-filled, intentional lives

Speaker: Welcome to the Driven 2 Thrive broadcast, purpose, growth, and lasting impact for men. I'm your host, Brent Dowlen, and we help men go from living to thriving, purpose-filled, intentional lives. My guest today is Tim Tedder, who is a licensed counselor and [00:04:00] helps couples recover after an affair, which not everybody even realizes is a possibility.

Tim works with individuals and couples to recover after infidelity, and has been doing it for over two decades after it's what destroyed his own marriage.

Tim Tedder: It's good to be here. Excited to talk about, oh, affairs and all things related to them. 

Brent Dowlen: Right? Everybody's most comfortable subject. I'm on a, I'm on a- Right? ... seat down 

Tim Tedder: next to a stranger, "Hey, what do you do?" "Oh, I work with affairs."

Oh, that's a, that's a conversation starter for sure. Right? 

Brent Dowlen: Everybody's like, "Uh," scooting farther away from you. Oh, man. That's okay. I'm on a roll this season. So far, uh, my last interview, we talked about male sexual health dysfunction. Okay. Did you know everybody wants to talk about ED and things like that, right?

Yeah. Man, 

Tim Tedder: Starbucks, sit down, that's the conversation next to 

Brent Dowlen: me going on. That is, that is the, that is the theme this year, is I'm having [00:05:00] uncomfortable conversations, and I didn't even know I had a plan or a theme. Who knew? 

Tim Tedder: Well, you know, I mean, that... Practically, I do face that a lot. I mean, if I'm meeting someone I don't know, one of the common questions is, "So what do you do?"

And I could be kind of soft in my beginning, "Well, I'm a counselor, coach," but inevitably they're gonna ask me, "Well, what is it that you specialize in?" "Oh, infidelity and affair recovery." Yeah. And also like, "Oh, okay. Well, that's interesting." And that either leads to a quick ending to the conversation or moving into some really interesting, you know, talk.

Brent Dowlen: Oh, oh, oh, sorry. I, I, I- ... I have to go, right? 

Tim Tedder: Yeah. But, but especially if I'm meeting some guy, and then their reaction, they're going, "Ugh, this is not comfortable conversation for me. Sorry, gotta be out of here." 

Brent Dowlen: Once upon a time, I was a youth minister, but I grew up a preacher's kid. My dad preached for 40-plus years.

I was, uh ... Hey, same 

Tim Tedder: here. Preacher's kid, youth ministry. 

Brent Dowlen: And the amount of, like, conversations I could get out of on a plane.[00:06:00] 

I'm in ministry. Ah. Right? You sit down, and like, and the person starts talking to you. They're like, "What do you do?" "I'm a preacher." "Oh." Of course, you got two reactions there. It's, it's either, "Oh, h- yeah," and putting the headphones, or it's they tell you everything they've ever done wrong in their life, so it becomes a confessional.

It's ... Was always hoping- Yeah ... for the earphone people. I just like, "I just wanna read my book, man." 

Tim Tedder: Yeah, yeah. I don't really need to hear your confessions right now. Right. 

Brent Dowlen: Those, those uncomfortable people you run into. It's like, "Um, no." Yeah. That's okay. We're, we're here to, uh, talk about the uncomfortable things because those are the things we have to come face to face with in our lives, right?

Mm-hmm. And there are a lot of people- Oh, yeah. I, 

Tim Tedder: I wa- I wasn't always i- interested in talking about uncomfortable things, but I was pretty good at being able to move conversations to something else that I was comfortable with. Not anything that required me to be [00:07:00] really true, really authentic, really vulnerable in my life.

No way. That wasn't safe territory. So it's, it's become different now. 

Brent Dowlen: Right. We're, we're all about hard conversations. That's one of the things I really try and focus on here on the Driven To Thrive broadcast is, not just in my interviews, we try and talk about the things that are a little more uncomfortable to talk about that we all need to face in our own lives and deal with and, you know, come to a good place on if we're going to show up as the best version of ourselves and learn to thrive in our lives.

And so, you know, I, purely accidentally, I did not actually plan this theme for my interviews this year. But hey, this is the way it's going, and I'm, I'm good with it. Somebody must need 

Tim Tedder: to hear it. Yeah. 

Brent Dowlen: Right? So I think we've touched on it, but just out and out, Tim, what do you do for a living? 

Tim Tedder: Yeah. I work with individuals and couples that have been affected by infidelity, dealing with that kind of pain, confusion, and come alongside them to help them move forward in a way that's healthy.

Not [00:08:00] just to kind of move past it, to get out of it, but to learn from it, hopefully in ways that makes them and maybe their marriage or relationship something different, you know, some, better in some ways. I mean, we always wear, we'll wear the scars of those kinds of choices, those kinds of injuries in our lives, in our relationships, but- They can make us stronger and, and make us better.

And look, I know saying that, man, sometimes that just feels like it minimizes the extreme agony and pain that people go through. Both someone who's been betrayed and someone who wears the shame of, "Man, I cheated," you know, "on my, my, my spouse." Um, so I don't want to minimize that. And it can take a long time to move through those things and that period of life.

But the, the, the knowing that on the other side of that, we can move through the suffering to a kind of, um, you know, acceptance and forgiveness and trust building and gratitude and even love that is more [00:09:00] intimate, more real, more authentic, more vulnerable than we experienced before. I mean, that's, that's the realistic hope, you know?

And that's what drives me to help people get there. Because man, I had to learn all those lessons myself, you know? I mean, this all came out of not just me sitting down one day going, "Hmm, what can I do with my life? Oh, affair recovery. That s- sounds interesting. Let me research that and see if I can come up with it."

Like a lot of counselors and coaches, it came out of my own experience and my own failure to, um, you know, having cheated in, in my marriage and all the consequences that brought into my life. It, you know, it took me to some really difficult places, and I floundered for a number of years before I started figuring the right things out in my life.

And it's been a process since then of growing and learning. 

Brent Dowlen: Now, guys, we're going to dump, jump just headfirst into this pretty quick. Uh, but just for all the guys right now who [00:10:00] are listening to this pumping the brakes already, because there are a lot of people who think, "Wait, i- is that even..." Like, the first thought people have when they found out that someone has been, uh, unfaithful or they've been unfaithful is, "It's over."

Right? That's the immediate response is, "This is the end." There are a lot of people who don't even realize, like, it doesn't have to be. That, I mean, it's going to depend on both parties, right? They, they both have to go, "No, this is worth fighting for," which is sadly much less common than people just slamming on the brakes and bailing out.

So for the men listening today, what do you say to all of them who are saying, "Wait, no, no, that's, that's a-- Once that boundary's crossed, it's, it's over"? 

Tim Tedder: Well, are you saying that they would decide that it's over or they think if that-- if I ever crossed that line, [00:11:00] I'm with someone that would never... I mean, they're gonna-- they're, they're done with me.

Is that-- that's the belief or fear that most guys have, do you think? 

Brent Dowlen: I, I think it's on both sides of the line, right? Okay. There are a lot of guys who are like, "If my wife ever did that, I'd never." 

Tim Tedder: Oh, yeah, yeah. Right. Let, let me just say, first of all, that I hear that a lot with people that come to talk to me that say, "Listen, before this happened, absolutely convinced that if this ever occurred, done, out, gone."

And yet they find themselves, you know, and even struggling with why am I here? But they, they are struggling with i- is this something I can get through? Is this something we can get through? And there are people out there that will say, "No, you can't." You know? Uh, there's a book that's written, um, Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life, you know, and anybody that stays in a marriage after infidelity is just being a chump.

And I just... I mean, I've been doing this for over twenty years, and I've got a, you know, a many, many witnesses, individuals and couples who have compelling stories to [00:12:00] tell, s- stories of pain and, and hurt and difficulty, and yet on the other side of it, stories of, oh, learning and growth and change and something that's different that they-- than they experienced before.

Not everybody gets that. There's a lot that's required to go into to achieve that, but it is a real thing, and a lot of people have experienced. So no, it's, it's not necessarily over. Um, guys listening to this, I mean, especially those that maybe are thinking about crossing the line or, or have crossed the line, I, I would want to come alongside them and say, "Listen, there's a lot of things you've got to pay attention to," but I don't think the first priority should be, "I've got to save my marriage."

Um, I think that should be secondary to, "Wait, I need to slow down and really kind of deal..." And maybe both can happen at the same time, but I've got to deal with, wait, how did I get to this place? 'Cause a lot of my clients never thought they would cross that line. That was my story. I was convinced that's something I would never do, and yet I [00:13:00] joved-- drove-- dove headfirst into it.

Um, wait, how did I get to this place? What do I need to learn from this? How do I go beyond just saying, "Oops, I'm sorry. This time I promise, and I really mean it, I'll never do it again." How do I go beyond that to, oh, this is what I figure-- I'm figuring out. This is what I'm figuring out. This is the changes I know I need to work on.

And here is the measure that you can have in my life, you know, looking at me, that these are the things that are different. These are the things that I'm beginning to be really focused on, and the evidence that you can trust me, that there's a change taking place. So I mean- That doesn't happen in a moment.

It's a process. But when we do that work, we become, we become a context in which the healing of a secure and satisfying marriage or relationship is much more hopeful, much more doable. If we fail to do that work, you know, we can just... we can feel really bad, and we can really mean it like, "I never wanna do that again."[00:14:00] 

But I think those relationships tend to struggle for a long time and have difficulty really reestablishing trust because it's like, "Okay. Well, I guess I'll hope that it doesn't happen again. Let's try to get back to what the old normal was." But you can't even do that after this kind of experience. But no, the hope's real.

It's not done. There's just too many examples of individuals in relationships that have survived this in really good ways. 

Brent Dowlen: Now, let me pretext this conversation with it takes two, guys. And so- Yeah ... both of you, if you want to recover from this, you both have to decide you're in for this because it's- Yeah

it's a long, long road. 

Tim Tedder: Absolutely. I, I do think that the person that broke trust probably has the greater responsibility at the beginning to be, "Oh, no, I'm committed doing," 'cause the other person's just like, they're reeling from it. They feel victimized, understandably so. And it's gonna take them a while to kind [00:15:00] of settle to the point where they can engage.

But you are absolutely right. If that relationship is gonna heal and be that better version, it takes both partners committed to the process and willing to do their unique part in helping the healing happen. 

Brent Dowlen: Let's start with what actually happens psychologically to the person who's been betrayed when they discover there's been an affair?

Tim Tedder: Well, I was witness to it. Um, in fact, my ex-wife and I, you know, we've... M-My, my marriage ended because of my affair. My career ended because of my affair, but, um, my ex-wife and I have continued to be good co-parents to our children and try to maintain a supportive relationship with each other. I went over to our grandchildren...

help, help her put our grandchildren to bed one night when she was babysitting, and we sat and talked for two hours just about even things in the past, and she... we [00:16:00] even got back to the marriage. I mean, again, the, the... this is 25 years ago. Our conversations are not these painful, angry... It's just what are we learning?

How are we growing? Let's talk honestly about these things. But as we talked about it, I just reminded her of that moment when I was completely honest with her about what had really happened. 'Cause at the beginning when we kinda got caught, I lied about it. I minimized it. "Oh, yeah, I crossed some boundaries, but it wasn't that bad."

But it was. You know, it, it'd gone all the way, physically, sexually, emotionally. Uh, it was full-blown affair. And when I finally confessed that to her I mean, I saw what happens to the betrayed. I mean, I saw things and heard things come out of her that I'd never seen before. The grief, the pain, the anger, all that stuff came pouring out of her.

And since then, being witness to how that plays out in the lives and the relationships that I've worked with, I mean, there are a lot of people that tell me, "It's the worst pain I've ever been through in my life." And these are people, some of them who've [00:17:00] lost loved ones to accident, to death, to whatever, but they're saying, "Yeah, but this, someone that I thought I could trust choosing to betray me and hurt me like this," it, it's a significant wound that usually takes more time than you want it to take to get over it, and the effort, you know, it's harder than people expect it to be.

It's trauma.

Brent Dowlen: Why... Right. You, you already mentioned that most people, you know, you even said, "Oh, I'll never be that person. That will never happen." Why do affairs happen to what looks like normal or even healthy marriages? 

Tim Tedder: Yeah, and I, I appreciate you saying that because I, I think sometimes they... oftentimes they do happen in relationships that by, you know, human...

N-no marriage is perfect, but by most measures you say, "That's a pretty stable, healthy relationship." Um, it's not... You know, mar- affairs don't just [00:18:00] happen because, wow, this marriage is really bad, and underneath they must have been really s- you know, separated or unhappy with each other. Sometimes that's the case, but it's not always the case.

You, you know, the... I think the cause for infidelity, it's not just one thing fits everybody. There's usually different pieces to the puzzle. But the state of the marriage or the relationship is just one piece of the puzzle. Sometimes it's a small piece, sometimes it's a big piece. Most of the time I f-find in the guys that I'm working with, that the bigger piece to the puzzle is just who they are, what they've learned about intimacy and relationship, um, the struggle to bring their full selves into their marriage and relationship in a way that's authentic, that's open, that's real, that's honest, that's vulnerable.

Man, I didn't learn that growing up for sure. I mean, I learned the opposite in a lot of ways. And I think that doesn't [00:19:00] make us cheat. It just creates a context in a marriage where we experience that dissatisfaction with not being connected, and a lot of times we'll equate that with we're not having sex enough, that's not happening enough.

But we get it confused with the really connection we all long to have, but we're not good at it. We don't know how to be that kind of partner, but we, we don't really recognize our stuff. We just blame the relationship or blame our partners or just blame circumstances. And then in that context, a situation where a person comes along that seems interesting, that seems, you know, oh, that, that's something that I might, you know, if I was free to experience that and wonder what that would be like.

And then if we're open to take the next compromise to even, you know, flirt around with that a little bit more and maybe take the next compromise to say things that leave the door open to see how they'll respond. And then the progression of compromises and [00:20:00] justification just, you know, leads to something that feels like, oh, this is the connection I always wanted to experience.

I mean, for, listen, for some, it's just about sex. I just, I, you know, I, I'm curious. I'd like to experience that with somebody else. Um, I'm not saying those are good. Those are usually a little bit easier to overcome and mend than the one that walk down the path and find what they feel is like real connection.

Maybe even begin to feel like, oh, maybe I love this person. But that usually happens in a context where we're not really good at cultivating an intimate, satisfying relationship in our home. And then eventually our criticism, dissatisfaction there leaves us open to something else that feels better, something else that feels good.

And like, why shouldn't I enjoy that? I'm, I deserve to be happy. I deserve to feel connection. And pretty soon in my case, compromise, compromise, compromise. If you'd said to me two months before I crossed the line that I was going to cheat, I was going to have an affair, I [00:21:00] would have, I would have sincerely said, that's never, I've never done that.

I've had opportunities to cross that line and I've always stepped back from it and been really proud of the fact, like, I'm never going to do that. So no, you're talking to the wrong guy. And yet in that moment, I didn't hesitate. I just, everything in me was pushing me right over the edge headfirst into something that I felt like this is what I want.

This is what I deserve. And once I'd gone that far, you know, there wasn't going to be anybody that convinced me otherwise. 

Brent Dowlen: Men, men have a psychological habit of self-medicating. And I mean, that shows up in all kinds of things, right? That's why men tend to, uh, show up higher in the statistics for alcoholism and tobacco use and drug use, uh- Yeah

and, and even sex intimacy, right? Mm-hmm. Physical intimacy. Men see it as another form of self-medication a lot of times for something they feel like they, [00:22:00] they don't know what's missing. They just know that something doesn't feel right, so they're just trying to find something that makes it feel better quite frequently.

Um, and from people I've talked to, that seems to be far more common than Oh, I'm just looking for something better, or I'm looking for something different. There's, there's surely something that they haven't put words to that is making a hole in their lives- Yeah. Yeah ... uh, that they're trying to medicate, and they just don't know how else to do it for them.

Yeah. Well, I think- And that's not an excuse, but... 

Tim Tedder: Yeah. No, I think we're made for connection. I mean, I think whether we recognize it or not, we came into this world needing connection, longing for connection, and experiences along the way. A lot of times our family experiences, our growing up, sometimes even pre- v- pre-verbal stuff happens in our life that cause us to be guarded and cautious or, you know, our normal becomes an adjustment to whatever experiences have been in our life.

I never understood that, and so I went into [00:23:00] my marriage with all my normal stuff that was really not... A lot of it wasn't healthy. I mean, I was a good guy, and I cared and I loved, and especially at the beginning of a relationship, I could feel all the ran- romance, feel all the connection. So when that starts going away, I know I'm capable of feeling that.

It must be something wrong with this person or something wrong with this relationship. Certainly it's not me. But I do think that longing for, for that connection is something that is central to who we are, and if we don't have that, if we're missing that, we will look for substitutes to it, something that makes us feel better, different, whatever.

And in the terms of connection, yeah, I'll look to something that makes me feel connected. And if I don't know how to be intimately, deeply, emotionally connected, the one thing I do know that makes me feel connected is sex. I mean, that is an intimate experience for me, and it feels really good. I feel connected to that person.

And for some people, that's the [00:24:00] farthest they get, I mean, like, oh, yeah, you know. Look, look how good that feels. But it is a substitute for that, that deeper experience that I, I think is created in all of us. That need is created in all of us to want that, need that. 

Brent Dowlen: Something we share in our relationship topics is men need sex to feel connected with their spouse, whereas women need to feel connected to want physical intimacy most of the time.

Um- 

Tim Tedder: Yeah, sometimes that gets flipped, but generally that's true. 

Brent Dowlen: Right. Usually that's the thing. Generally I think that's true. So would you- They, they both 

Tim Tedder: want connection, it's just the road there is a little bit different- Right. Yeah, yeah ... for both of them. 

Brent Dowlen: Women, women want the connection first, and then this is- Mm-hmm

just a completion of that. Yeah. Um, so would you say it's safe to say that more often affairs actually tend to stem from More unmet emotional needs than character flaws. 'Cause I know a lot of guys, right, their first reaction once they've crossed a line and [00:25:00] they didn't really intend to, right? 'Cause there are people who are just morally, "I don't care," right?

Yeah. Right. So- There are some people like that, yeah. We'll, we'll throw them to the side and let's, let's put that group to the side, uh, and take them out of the conversation for the rest of the conversation. But a lot of guys, their first response is, "What is wrong with me?" Mm-hmm. Right? "I c- I can't believe I did this.

There must be something wrong with me. I must be broken." And I think it would be safe to say it's usually more about unmet emotional needs that you didn't know, right? Yeah. You didn't know they were needed more than- Yeah ... some deep-seated character flaw. 

Tim Tedder: Right. Right? Like you're just born bad. You know, once a cheater, always a cheater.

I guess it just came out now, but, you know, you're doomed for the rest of your life. No, I, I don't think any of that is, i- is true. Um, I, I think asking the question, what's wrong with me, is a good place to start. I think there are things that are br- quote broken in us, but we're not necessarily bro- ... oh, yeah, I'm just screwed up, you know?

I mean, I've got a bad heart, [00:26:00] bad character, whatever. So I, I mean, I had to, I had to struggle with that. I mean, in my own shame, you know, forget the other people, the questions other people were asking, like, "Can, can we ever trust you again?" I was wondering that myself. Like, I was sure that was something I would never do, but I did.

How do I ever get to a place of certainty that I won't repeat that behavior? In fact, statistically, I know I'm more likely to do that again than less likely, so, you know, a- am I just doomed? A- am I, did it just show the character tendency in me that is always gonna be there, and I will never be able to trust myself?

But I do think you're right. Well, you have to get to the place of saying, "No, this is revealing something about me, something that is in itself is not a good thing. But if I understand it, if I understand where it comes from, and I know how to attend to that, I know how to work on changing that, then it can actually become a catalyst for me becoming a different kind of man than I was [00:27:00] before."

And that's the good news. Listen, I hold these two truths in balance in my life. The biggest regret of my life was that experience of, of stepping out of my marriage, the, the consequence of losing a marriage, losing a career, but more importantly, the wound that it caused on this woman that I had once stood up and promised, in better times and worse times, I am gonna love you.

Nothing's gonna break that. The, the children that we had that I at one time said to them, "You never have to be concerned about your mom and I ever getting a divorce. We're committed. We're in this for life." And the wounds that I inflicted because of my choice that made both of those things a lie You know, that's hard.

That's hard stuff. I-- But I hold that... I mean, that's my biggest regret. If I could go back and undo it, I would do it. At the same time, the other thing I hold onto is that failure in my life eventually became a catalyst for some of the most significant changes I've been through. I mean, I would like to think that I could've gotten there without that.

Uh, that would be nice, [00:28:00] but that's not my story, that's not my reality, and it took me kind of going through a really dark period to eventually get to the place of, "Wait, there are some things about me I need to understand, I need to figure out." And, you know, the result of that is some- a man who really works to be a better parent, a better partner, a better friend, um, than I was before.

I wouldn't... You know, I wish I could undo the first, but I don't wanna, I don't wanna give up the second, you know? And the truth is, I, I, I, I'm, I'm... What's presented to me is the reality of the choices I've made, the consequences there, and then the opportunities there, too. What am I gonna do with those? And that's why working with affair healing is...

The choice can be healing, and many times it can be the healing of your relationship. Even if that's not an option, it can still be the healing for you, 'cause hopefully you will have opportunities for other relationships, and you want to be that version of yourself that has learned, that has healed, [00:29:00] that is growing, that is, you know, advancing in this...

You know, telling a better story with your life. That chapter, that was kind of a rough one, but you learn from it and it's... The chapters you're creating in the story of your life are, are, are, are good ones, can be good ones if, if we let the, let it teach us the lessons and learn from it. The, you know, they can.

Brent Dowlen: Tim, in your, in your practice and experience, what is the big difference between men who collapse into shame after being caught and men who step into responsibility?

Tim Tedder: Uh, there's... I think there's... There... I'm trying to think if there's one thing that I would say stands out more than the others. I think there's, there's so many factors. Um, one, I'd look at the history. I mean, how have they experienced both the giving or receiving of grace or forgiveness in their life in the past?

'Cause if they haven't received that or, [00:30:00] or, you know, experienced those things, it's really difficult in the moment to embrace it. Um, I would say in the, you know, particular experience they're in now, is there hope for... I mean, do they see the hope for forgiveness, for grace, for redemption in their lives? Um, because if they can see the glimmer of that being offered, it's helpful as, as well.

I mean, it doesn't take away the responsibility that that man has To, to just be, regardless of circumstances, to be the one who's responsible for not only what he's done, but for the s- next steps he's taken. But that inner resolve to actually do it, 'cause it's hard. Um, I, I think it's both, it's both the, what has developed in them that creates the, the hope for that chance at them by, it could be their faith experience, it could be their growing up experience, it could be all those things.

And are they in a context where there is some [00:31:00] support and encouragement or grace showing up in their life? I mean, if you have those two things, it makes it a lot easier to step forward with, "Okay, things can be different. I can do the work." Now, that doesn't guarantee that's gonna happen. That man still has to be the one that's saying, "Boy, this is gonna be hard.

If I'm really gonna do this right, I've gotta be willing to be real, gotta be willing to be vulnerable, I've gotta be willing to learn, I've gotta be willing to be humble." Um, those aren't easy asks for a lot of guys, you know? But when we can see that the benefit of that, the result of that is a man who is stronger, more trustworthy, more capable of loving, and he's the kind of man that the people who love him experience a version of him that feels satisfying, that feels like connection, his children, his partner, his friends.

Um, m- uh, when [00:32:00] we can see that, when we have the support around us that can help us look up and see those things, encourage us to see those things a- and then help us, help us move in that direction, um, we can find the strength to do it. I mean, things like you're doing, is trying to gather a message around guys who are in a common search to, you know, what is this growing, what does being a man look like, you know, to me?

Uh, being in a community. I mean, even if it's, if it's online or whatever, just knowing, oh, there's other people that think this way, that are... that this is important to them, uh, can, can be a powerful catalyst for, for that kind of change too. 

Brent Dowlen: What does real accountability look like beyond saying, "I'm sorry, I made a mistake," I s- right?

What does actual- Yeah ... accountability start to look like? 

Tim Tedder: Well, let me tell you what I don't think it is. 

Brent Dowlen: Okay. 

Tim Tedder: I, I get really nervous in marriages where one partner [00:33:00] has an affair, they confess to it, they wanna be part of healing, and the expectation is the one who is betrayed now has to stand up and establish the boundary fences and make them really clear, "Okay, here's the new boundaries, and you better do all of these things."

And the list is created You know, I need to have access to your phone. I need to know every password. I need you to pull up the history of all this sort of stuff. I need to... I mean, uh, but they're the ones that are establishing those boundaries, and they are the ones that are s- the betrayed person is always the one that's going out and make- making sure that they're in place, they're being maintained, and, oh, here's another one I need to put in place.

They are the boundary keeper. And the problem with that is, first of all, the person who had the affair, we're, we're just kind of, okay, we're kinda shamed in this position of you, you... If I will follow the rules, I will do what you tell me to do. And, you know, some people say, "Well, that's, that's what they [00:34:00] deserve," you know.

They, they just need to be humble and accept all of that. The problem is, in the long run, that's not really how you establish trust. I'm gonna make things so constrained in your life that I feel safe and that you can't cheat on me anymore. Well, you know, first of all, in today's world, that's almost impossibility.

Someone can find a way to secretly cheat if they want to. But it's also exhausting to that person that was betrayed, like, to constantly be watching and, and putting things in place. And in the end, them feeling safe depends on how attentive they are and how sure that they are that those things are being maintained.

I think what needs to happen in accountability is that the betrayed person needs to be very honest about, "Here's the things that make me feel safe. Here's the things that make me feel unsafe. Here's the things you could do that would make me feel more secure right now. And see, some of these things I may not need for the rest of my life, but right now they feel really important to me," to state all of those things.

But the person who had the affair should be the one that steps up and [00:35:00] says, "Let me take responsibility for doing those things." And that's hard. I mean, we like to be in control of our lives, to always feel, or, you know, now feel like, ugh, I'm having to do all these things for some... But that's what love does, you know?

And we need to be willing to make that sacrifice, and it does get easier as time goes on. And some of those things that feel so important to h- be maintaining now, as trust is rebuilt, they become less necessary, less important. But we, the ones who broke the trust, should get to the place, and we might need help to do it, but get to the place where we're willingly stepping in and saying, "I'm the boundary setter and keeper for your safety, for your security.

Here's the things you've told me you need. Here are some things I've thought about that I think would be helpful too. And some of these things I'm- might struggle with, not because I'm trying to be unfaithful again, just because they're new, it's different, but I'll keep checking in with you, asking you, 'What else can I do?'"

And I, and I think especially in the near [00:36:00] future, and the immediate steps that are taken, there needs to be a, a lot of attention, a lot of energy given to, um, those of us who, who broke the trust to, to establishing the boundaries and the accountability that That we need, I think it's really for the other person to feel safe.

If it helps us to have accountability outside of that too, like sharing our stuff with humility, like, "Here's what I struggle with," and we have friends that encourage us along the way. E- even there, I'm not a big proponent of, you know, going to accountability group, and now the accountability group becomes the ones that establish the new boundaries in my life too.

No, they should be the ones that are encouraging w- this is what healthy boundaries l- look like. But, but I'm taking the responsibility for it. Um, I don't need, I don't need insistence or shame to be the thing that, that kind of keeps me in line. I mean, I lived that. Oof. I mean, you, you say you grew up as a pastor's kid.

I grew up in, in a home where, I mean, shame was... [00:37:00] Wow, I, I really knew shame well. And I know what it can look like to do the thing that's expected of you because of shame at work. I just don't think in the long run that leads to a healthy life or a satisfying relationship. 

Brent Dowlen: Well, and that, the secondary part you say is better is actually what I was leaning towards because we're huge into personal responsibility and accountability here, right?

I don't think that, uh, turning your partner who is already hurt into a warden- Yeah ... is going to rebuild the marriage. It's- 

Tim Tedder: No, and I don't think- ... not ... I don't, and they may feel like they need to do that, but take that respon- They don't want to do that. I mean, that tires them out, you know? They want us to take the responsibility for it.

By the way, you know, I mean, I was terrible at that. You know, in my... It took me way too long to get to a healthy... Again, my marriage fell apart, and even some years after that, you know, it took me quite a while to get to the place of realizing, oh, I have a problem that I [00:38:00] need to take responsibility for. 

Brent Dowlen: How does a man actually start to realize, am I actually changing or am I just trying to stop the bleeding at the moment?

Tim Tedder: Well, you're probably trying to do both, and I don't think there's anything wrong with realizing I probably have mixed motives here. But you don't want it to just be, "I'm just stopping the bleeding." I, I think... I, here's how it starts to show up. In the quick aftermath of our infidelity, there's enough rushing to, "Ugh, I need to fix this," and enough shame involved that w- we'll do about anything for a while.

But give it a couple weeks, maybe a month or two, and these things that feel important for you to do, if you're letting go of those things in the moments that your spouse is not, or partner's not responding in the way that you want them [00:39:00] to, either, "I'm trying to fix this, but you're angry today," or, "I'm trying to do my part, but you feel distant."

Um, and it's... Then, then that turns into my justification like, "Well, I'm not gonna try then." Well, then we're just doing things to stop the bleeding. And if, if it keeps bleeding, like, well, that's not effective, so why should I keep working on this? If, on the other hand, we start adding to that motive to, "Oh, I'm-- you're bleeding, I wanna, I, I wanna stop this.

Our relationship's bleeding, I wanna stop that." And we start infusing that with that additional motive like, "Oh, but these things are good for me to do. They're healthy for me to do. This is-- should be characteristic of the way that I'm living." And we, we create that vision of, this is the better version of me.

And, and again, this doesn't come in a moment, doesn't come with just aha, you know, insight. It's usually a progression of learning. But it starts to show up in that guy, and the evidence of it is in, in the months that follow, when it's still hard, when you [00:40:00] come home and things have been going well, and then all of a sudden your spouse has been triggered again, and it feels like you're back at ground zero, what shows up in you?

Is it like, "Yeah, I'm out of here. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm not, I'm not dealing with this"? Or, and even if you do that in a quick reaction, do you come back saying, "No, no, no. This... I, I need to try to engage. I need to try to... I realize there's pain or fear behind what's coming out right now. How do I bring comfort or relief to that?"

If that continues to show up, not perfectly, but consistently, that's what's in our hearts, that's what we keep trying to do, then that's pretty strong evidence that that's coming from a different place. I'm not just trying to control the circumstances. I'm trying to change me. And even when the circumstances aren't going the way I want, there's that version of me that's trying to show up anyway.

That's encouraging, and I can think of times in my life when that started to show up, and I wasn't getting the quick result I wanted, but there was still a satisfaction in me, like going, "Ooh, that new version of me is the... I see [00:41:00] it, you know? I see it, and I'm thankful for it. I, I wanna keep cultivating that."

Um, you know, that's, that's the first thing that comes to mind as far as that's a clear distinction between one motive and the other.

Brent Dowlen: So let's start. We've gotten through the moment, right? We've, we've owned our mistake and decided, no, we said forever. We're going to start a path towards working to heal, working to rebuild. What are the most common mistakes couples make in the first 90 days after a disclosure like this? 

Tim Tedder: Oh, well, th-there's, there's a number of tripping points.

Um, and this is, this is my perspective. You will find counselors or coaches that may disagree with some of these points, but [00:42:00] I feel, feel pretty strongly about them just 'cause I've seen the evidence of alternative approaches and what the consequences of those can look like. One of the things and very quickly is this insistence like, okay, I deserve to know the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so prepare yourself.

We're gonna go through... I don't know how long it's gonna take, but I'm gonna ask every question I can think of, and I'll probably ask them over and over and over again, and you better tell me the truth of every deta- in every detail of every question I ask. First of all, I think the person who betrayed has the right to ask questions and to know the truth.

But what I'm-- the caution I give is not to protect the betrayer. It's to protect the person who is now sitting there wounded and feels like the remedy is this thing that's confusing to me that you lived, I need to know all the detail that you lived so it n- it's clear in my mind as it can possibly be, so it's-- I'm not imagining things, I'm not, you know...[00:43:00] 

The things I can imagine and wonder about are worse probably than the reality. Sometimes that's true. The problem is when you get to a level of specific detail, I mean, especially when you're getting into the detail of, you know, sexual interaction or even a lot of the detail about what are the exact words and stuff you said to each other all the time.

Let me see the texts. Let me see the pictures. Oh, you have a video? Let me watch that too. I mean, those are inflicted wounds that can... are never gonna go away. I mean, there, there will always be triggers 'cause you can't, you can't unlearn those things. So I think being very careful in stepping back and taking time to like, what are the things that are really important for me to know about this?

What are the-- what's the information that's gonna be helpful and what's gonna be harmful? And by the way, the person that had the betrayer should not be the one that's controlling all of this. That's what you did in the affair. You were controlling the information. Hopefully, you get somebody to help you through this process or a resource to help you through this process.

Um, but, you know, their attitude should be what you [00:44:00] need to know, I'm gonna be honest. W-we shouldn't be-- they shouldn't be in the place where, "Well, I'm not gonna tell them the truth 'cause that's just gonna hurt them more." That's the wrong choice. That's, that's the choice we made in the affair. Like, there's some things I'm not gonna tell you 'cause, you know, that would bother you.

We need to be willing to be absolutely honest, but at the same time, you know, we can say, "Hey, can we do this carefully? C-um, I don't wanna do this in a way that's gonna hurt you more, but I'm committed to be completely honest with you. I just-- I want-- Let's go to someone that can really help us do this in a smart way."

So, you know, that's, that's one of the pitfalls. Another pitfall is, you know, a lot of times it comes out of our churches is like, "Well, if they said they're sorry, just forgive them." And it's almost like, just do it and move on. I, I... You know, when there, when there's little offense, little forgiveness is required.

When it's a great offense, great forgiveness is required. And for most of us, that doesn't happen quickly or in a moment. It's usually a progression of there are f- parts of this I can forgive and begin to let go of and let be in the past. Other parts, it's gonna take me longer. Um, something I say I [00:45:00] forgive, I might come up and use it as an accusation ag- a weapon against you.

So maybe I need to l- do a little bit more of work on forgiveness. Uh, so anybody that steps too quickly to forgiving, I'm always a little suspicious of that, and it, you know, I'm always right because it comes out in other ways, unhealthy ways. Either, you know, the constant blowing up or triggers and anger or this suppressed thing that just brings them down into this closed off victimization that isn't healthy either.

So moving too, you know, quickly, uh, to forgiveness, I think to start out with the assumption that the only outcome of this experience is this. And whether you say that the only outcome can be that, "Oh, we have to stay together," or the only outcome could be, "Oh, well, of course you've cheated, so we have to break up," th-those...

Th-there needs... There, there should... Make room for the possibility of making a choice in this. Because if you're constrained by this is the only possible income, uh, this is the only possible outcome, um, I don't think you're [00:46:00] really gonna be engaged in the process of making a choice i-in a way that's considering everything that needs to be considered in that moment.

Um, there's probably oth- there's probably lots of things. Those are the ones that come to my mind most quickly when you ask that question. 

Brent Dowlen: All right, we're gonna split the next one up a little bit. If a man listening right now has crossed a line emotionally or physically, what are the first three things that he should start doing to try and repair that?

Tim Tedder: Does the partner know about it? 

Brent Dowlen: Uh, you know, that's a valid question. We could go both ways on that. 

Tim Tedder: Well, boy, this... Let's, let's start with they know about it. They found out about it. Okay. Okay? We'll start there. Um, there should be just a, a complete commitment to, "I'm gonna be truthful with you." Again, as I [00:47:00] said before, around that can be let's, let's be really careful and intentional how we do it.

It's not to protect me. I, I just really want to protect you and protect us, and if you don't trust me, let's go to someone else that we can trust. But there should be this commitment, "I, I'm gonna be honest with you." There are way too many times that the truth comes out. They call it trickle truth. You know, it comes out in little pieces.

And there's a lot of motives behind that. Sometimes we're too shamed. We wanna... We don't wanna hurt ourselves by revealing too much of our, you know, errors and our, our, our gross choices. Um, sometimes for some people it's, you know, "I still wanna leave the door open a little bit, so I don't know how much I would just wanna tell.

What if I wanna go back to that person?" But a lot of times it really is about concern for the partner. Like, "Boy, if I tell you the truth about all this, this is gonna suck. I mean, you're gonna h- it's gonna hurt you." Uh, but th-this is where we have to realize if I'm... If you're gonna rebuild trust, there has to be commitment to just...

commitment to truthfulness a-and honesty. [00:48:00] Um, so that, you know, that would be the first thing. Um, e-expect that there is going to be rough times ahead. This is going to be really difficult. There are going to be lots of ups and downs. As I said before, it's going to be harder than you expect, take longer than you want.

You need to be prepared for that and know that what's coming out of your partner is a result of trauma that you have some responsibility for inflicting in their life. It's a natural outcome. I think for a lot of guys, especially because we're so used to regulating our emotions and shutting them down when we need to, that we expect the big reaction at the beginning.

But after a week or two, there's an expectation, shouldn't this be settling down? Certainly a month or so, two months, three months down the road, we're still dealing with triggers. There's that part of us that says, you should be able to handle this better. I'm just telling you, telling that guy, no, you need to expect it's going to be a rough ride.[00:49:00] 

And we're not talking days or weeks. You're probably talking months and maybe a year or two before things settle down to what the new normal is going to be. If you go into this expecting like, I'll say my apology, promise not to do it again. And within a week or two, it's uncomfortable what we're doing okay.

That's unrealistic. So go into this realizing it's coming out of their pain, out of their fear. And you're just, if you really want this to work, you've got to be committed to showing up to provide comfort and assurance to that pain and that fear in their life. And it's going to take time. I would just say to guys as a third thing, get help.

I mean, I finally started getting to the place that I needed to get to without help, but it took me a long time and my marriage ended. I didn't have good help around me at the time. And I probably wouldn't have been open to it even if I had. But if someone's there and saying, I want to do the right thing, [00:50:00] don't just trust on what you think you know about yourself and what the situation requires.

You probably don't. You know what's normal for you. You have a good perspective of a lot of things, but there are probably some things that you're not aware of in your life. Some things you've been blind to. This affair probably has its roots in some of that stuff. So get someone who understands this process and trust them, go to them, be open to them, be honest and learn.

I felt that coming on for a while. But yeah, but learn from them and just be willing to kind of be I mean, for a lot of guys, this is not the kind of stuff we wanna open up about, and, and we'd just rather, "Oh, man, can I just move on from this?" I do not wanna go to talk to someone else, especially someone if I don't know them, about my problems, m- my struggles, things that are embarrassing to me.

Failures, yeah, we don't like talking about that. But [00:51:00] if, if you want to change, if you want to grow, open up, man. Take, take that risk, take that chance, because you'll probably learn some things about yourself that you would not learn otherwise. Now, l- let's go back, let's go back to the person you've, you've crossed a line emotionally, sexually, and you're with a partner who doesn't know.

I'm gonna tell you, I think that's a lot trickier. On, on twenty years ago, I think I would have been rather quick in my response to say, "Well, man, if you're gonna live with honesty and integrity, you better tell them, and just commit to honesty." And there's a big part of me that still values that. And I know I have to be very careful here, because there are a lot of people who would listen, and they're looking for the excuse not to be honest , not to be real, not to be vulnerable.

So if you give me any out, I'm gonna, "Yeah, that's me. I'm gonna take it." So I, I guess people are just gonna have to, uh, have to accept this and, and hopefully be honest with themselves. I, I have [00:52:00] recognized that there are some circumstances. I mean, listen, the revealing of infidelity, of a breaking of trust is, is gonna be harmful and damaging.

Um, so I would never want someone to take the excuse, "Well, I'm not gonna say anything 'cause I don't, I don't wanna hurt my partner, don't hurt my marriage," and then it just stops there. All right, if you think you're gonna make that choice, you need to get help yourself. You, you can't just go, "I, I don't wanna hurt them more, and I'll never do this again."

You need to be committed to the change. You need to grow. And I think most of the time if I was involved with someone like that, and I have been a lot of times where the partner didn't know, my encouragement is gonna be, "If you're gonna step back in this relationship and expect to really have trust building again, you're gonna have to do some things differently, and that's gonna mean being authentic.

It's gonna mean being honest, and how are you gonna be able to live with that if you carry this secret? If you carry this thing you're gonna have to keep lying about in some way for the rest of your life? How, how can you maintain being healthy?" And they're gonna have to weigh that against the damage they think it [00:53:00] would afflict on a partner.

And there are some cases that I've been a part of where I know the truth, if it were completely spoken, would have such profound effect that I don't know that it's worth telling it. Uh, for, for instance, someone who is married to someone who has in the past had significant trauma in their life, maybe has had s- suicidal tendencies or ideation.

I think you need to be very careful with those type of things. I had one guy that in his confession to me, and understanding the whole truth of his story, admitted that one of the lines of infidelity that he crossed was inappropriate physical and sexual, it wasn't intercourse, but it was sexual behavior with his wife's mother.

His mother-in-law. And I just knew, okay, well that's gonna be a whole can of worms that I'm not sure that I'm with confidence I can say, "Well, you better tell your wife about that." I mean, I, I just, I, I, you know... So I just think there's some circumstances where there are some [00:54:00] exceptions. Most of the time I'm, I'm encouraging people, you probably need to tell them.

If you want a chance for a better relationship, be honest with them. Yeah, the risk of that is they may listen to that and go, "Yeah, I don't want to be with you anymore," but, I mean, you're giving them the choice. If you don't tell them, you're not giving them that choice. So I, I... That's usually the way I encourage people.

Brent Dowlen: I appreciate you walking that line. I know- I knew that was a dangerous question. Sorry, I didn't really mean to set you up. Let's, let's 

Tim Tedder: put the shoe on the other 

Brent Dowlen: foot. Yeah. I mean, let, 

Tim Tedder: let me j- I would say one more thing about it. There have been occasions where I've been with men and women, um, m- most of the time men, who have decided themselves there are some things, some things I'm not gonna tell.

You know, they'll, they'll admit some pretty bad things, but then the- then there's some things they just... I just think that would be so hurtful and so devastating or have other consequences that I'm not gonna tell that. Um, and when they've made that [00:55:00] choice, what I encourage them to do, I say, "Well, I think you need to write a letter of confession to your wife and s- and, and tell the truth about this, but also give your reasons for not telling.

And, and listen, the reasons can't be you're just trying to protect yourself. If that's it, then this is just a selfish choice. But if there are reasons you believe are valid for not saying those things, put those down too so that they would understand it. You seal that, date it, do whatever you can to mark that, and then give it to me or someone else you trust to put in a file somewhere that will never come out unless you need it sometime in the future."

You know, where it's, it's surprising how information, the truth bubbles up in unexpected ways in the future. And if it ever did come out in some way, for you to reach back and say, "You know what? I actually thought about this, and I wasn't not telling you just out of a sel- selfish motivation. I was trying to think of you and our [00:56:00] relationship.

You may not agree with me, but here, let... at least read this so you know how I was processing it back then." And that sometimes that can be helpful. 

Brent Dowlen: Putting the shoe on the other foot, if a betrayed spouse is listening and is just feeling shattered, what is one step that they can take today to regain stability?

Tim Tedder: Well, realize that this suffering you're going through, and, and listen, I'm not, I'm not gonna minimize the suffering at all. It is suffering. Like as I say, there's a lot of people say it's the worst thing they've ever been through in their life, and it's gonna take some time to get through it. But even though you may not be able to see it yourself I hope you can trust people like me or people who've been through exactly what you're going through and have a story to tell on the other side of it that would sit alongside you right now and not try to convince you not to feel these things like, "Oh, this is, you know, you shouldn't feel..."

No, they would sit with the pain. They would sit with that [00:57:00] sorrow. They would sit for a long time as you deal with this, but also be telling you that there is hope for something else. It's not, it's not an unrealistic hope. It's a realistic hope. So at least being able to know there's a possibility, even though you can't feel it right now, that something, um, there could be an outcome to this that is actually teaching me something, and I'm growing, and I'm learning to...

I'm g- gonna learn how to accept this, first of all, as a real part of my life. I wish it wasn't, but it is. I'm gonna move towards what does it mean to really understand getting past resentment to be able to forgive this person. Whether I stay with them or not or trust them, that's a separate issue, but it needs to start with forgiveness is something that's beneficial to me.

How do I understand it? How do I move towards that? And if the... and then if they are, like, I want to see if we can heal. What does it look like to risk trusting [00:58:00] them again, to move even towards a kind of gratitude of seeing, oh, this is what we can take out of this experience. This is what we're learning from it, me and my partner.

This is what we're working together to build. You know, and from that, experiencing a new kind of love. You will-- You do not have to sit here as a victim to plan B for the rest of your life. Well, I had this expectation, wonderful life. This is what it's gonna look like, and now that's shattered. I'm just going to be in this subcategory of something less than.

I don't think that's necessarily true. You, you always ex... Remember this. This is part of your story, and it's not a, it's not a fun one. There's gonna be grief and pain attached to it, but there can also be gratitude and thanksgiving eventually because of what you learn and how you grow from it. So, I mean, first of all, having that perspective, but right now, grief.

I mean, [00:59:00] th-this is a loss. There's nothing wrong with just feeling the grief of this and letting that be okay. Just know that you don't wanna bring your tent in the cemetery and pitch it there and say, "Well, I lost... I... This thing I lost, you know. I guess I'm gonna live here." No, you grieve. You spend some time grieving.

Eventually, you can walk out of the cemetery. Sometimes you have to come back and visit and sit a while, but eventually, you know, you're going out and living another life. But it's a process, and it's, it's gonna take time. And especially for those who've maybe been betrayed, there's sometimes its own shame wrapped around that.

You know? The shame of the betrayer is obvious. The shame of the one who is betrayed sometimes isn't as obvious, but that feeling of, did I do something wrong? And if they don't think they did anything wrong, then the question is, but so what's wrong with me? Why wasn't I enough? Why did you choose to do, go there and do that with, with that person instead of keeping your choice of loving [01:00:00] me?

And so there's a lot of shame that's wrapped around in that and, and not, not letting the shame wrap you up and kind of keep you frozen that, um, you got to do your own battle with, with, um, with that, you know, and, and shame, man, shame's the, shame's the guest at the door that's always showing up wanting to do something.

But, oh, I started to say the reason I go there is that shame many times will keep even the one who's betrayed closed off. They don't want anybody to know about this. They won't... I can't believe how many clients have not told anybody else. They just don't want, they don't want their partner's reputation to be hurt.

They don't, they feel, you know, they feel embarrassed by it. But my absolute strong recommendation is, man, you need to have at least one person, if not more in your life, someone that you, that cares about you, that you trust, and that is going to support the direction you're choosing to move on the other side of this [01:01:00] betrayal.

Isn't going to sit there and try to force you to do one thing or the other, but you can trust them to keep this between the two of you. They, you know that they care about you. You need to find at least one person in your life that is alongside you in that way.

Brent Dowlen: Tim, as we start to land this plane, what's next for you? You got any big projects or anything you want to share?

Tim Tedder: No, I mean, I, I, when COVID came along, I kind of, there's a lot of things that were going on in my life. I was moving, a lot of things going on in my family, and I kind of backed off to creating resources on my website and stopped putting out new podcast episodes. And then about a year ago, I decided, man, I, again, I went through a period of even like kind of feeling slightly depressed.

I was still doing my work and everything, but man, it was just kind of from a darker place and just dealing with that about a year ago and coming back to my purpose and my passion. And so I just started, you know, with kinda renewal, with renewed interest and effort, you know, putting [01:02:00] more work into the resources I was providing on affairhealing.com, starting my The Affair Recovery Room podcast, kind of taking the old episodes down and just starting from scratch again at the end of June last year.

And it's been really fun trying to bring creativity into that, bringing interesting guests on. Uh, so, you know, doing that and then working with the clients that come to me. I... Actually, this past year, I've, I've spent a lot of years working with whoever came to me. Uh, couples, individuals, ones who betrayed, ones who broke trust.

However they came with their need, I was just very broad in, in my approach. And I still am open to all those people, but I've been much more focused on the resources putting out and the services I offer to people who have been the betrayers. You know, and especially a lot of guys. Like, "Listen, I've been there.

You are a key to what happens from this point on," you know? "And if it is just this admission of 'I'm sorry, and I promise to never do it again,' if that's all the farther you go, it's not enough. So [01:03:00] how can I come alongside you and help you really gain the understanding you need from this experience so that you learn, that you grow, and you become an effective trust builder in this new version of the, the marriage or relationship that you have?"

So that's kind of been, uh, kind of the growing focus and passion in my work lately.

Brent Dowlen: Tim, we've taken a, a very, uh, difficult conversation for a lot of people, and we have undoubtedly touched some uncomfortable places for some people, and sometimes it's a whole lot to process in one breath. And, and people may have to go back and listen to this again. And we'll have, you know, your connection points, of course, for everybody down in the show notes so they can connect with you.

Speaker: Gentlemen, an affair doesn't start with sex. It starts with drift. It [01:04:00] starts with secrecy. It starts with small compromises you convince yourself don't really matter. And recovery? Recovery doesn't start with forgiveness, it starts with truth. It starts with ownership, and it starts with looking in the mirror and deciding you will not ever be that man again.

If you betray trust, the worst thing you can do is hide behind the shame. And if you've been betrayed, the worst thing you can do is believe you're crazy for being shattered about it. What Tim has reminded us today is this: healing is not quick, it's not clean, it's not easy, and it's not guaranteed, but it is possible.

Not because time fixes things, not because love fixes things, but because truth, responsibility, and sustained change rebuilds safety. And whether you're rebuilding your marriage or rebuilding yourself, the question isn't can this ever be what it [01:05:00] was again? The question is, will you become the kind of man who can be trusted again?

That's the work, that's the line in the sand, and that's where thriving begins. Tim has one more thing to share with us, and then we'll close this one out

Brent Dowlen: What is the most important thing you want people to hear today?

Tim Tedder: Well, let me speak to that guy out there that maybe has crossed a line, and they've broken trust. Maybe it's known, maybe it's not known. Um, there are resources in this world that really want to help you, that are not out to shame you, just help you to take what's happened, deal with it in an honest way, and tell a better story with your life.

So don't let- Don't let the embarrassment and shame of this kind of wrap you up and keep you from [01:06:00] that very process that can be life-changing for you. It's scary, it's risky, it's not easy, but I encourage you to take the risk of doing it. And I'll just say o- one simple thing. If there's anybody out there that fits that and, and you're wondering, "Well, what could I do?"

Um, if you go to my website, affairhealing.com, and click on the Renovate link, it just kind of talks about that. And there's a form that you just tell me your story, and that comes to me. There's no obligation. You don't get on a mailing list, nothing like that. I read your story, and I will respond to you with...

There are a lot of different things, ways that I will respond to people depending on what their experience, what their story, and what their need is. And a lot of times, the response isn't anything that I'm involved in. Like, "Oh, here's a resource that I'd really recommend you consider that you reach out to and, and get help on."

And if it's something I can help with, it's, doesn't, it's not one size fits all. There can be a, you know, a number of things. But it's a [01:07:00] starting point. And if they've never told the story, never taken that risk, it's a rather, y- y- it, it's a non-threatening way just to take a first step. So I, I would encourage them to do that.

Brent Dowlen: Guys, from myself and Tim, thanks for joining us today on this episode of the Driven 2 Thrive broadcast. Be better tomorrow because of what you do today, and we'll see you on the next one.

Speaker 4: The Driven 2 Thrive broadcast, purpose, growth, and lasting impact for men. Helping men go from living to thriving, purpose-filled, intentional lives