How Anyone can Glorify God in the Middle of Nowhere [53]

Host: TJ Freeman

Summary: In this episode of Back to Rurality, host TJ Freeman interviews Rob and Amanda Miller, a couple who relocated to a rural part of Pennsylvania to farm. The Millers discuss their personal journeys, including the cultural shifts and personal growth they experienced moving from urban settings to a remote farm life. They share the challenges and rewards of rural living, emphasizing the importance of community, faith, and leveraging their resources for God’s glory. Amanda highlights the impact of agritourism on their farm and the unique ways they integrate faith into their business. The episode underscores the significance of relational ministry and community involvement in rural settings, encouraging listeners to use whatever means they have to make a difference for God's kingdom.

Connect with Us:

• Website: backtorurality.com
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• Email: tj@brainerdinstitute.com

Transcript

How Anyone can Glorify God in the Middle of Nowhere

TJ: Have you ever felt this way? You're going, man, I, I wanna bring glory to God. I see it in the Bible, but I'm just not exactly sure where to start. I have definitely felt that way before, and sometimes being rural can amplify that because you're going, you know, I'm all the way out here in the middle of nowhere.

I'm not around that many people. I don't have that many resources. I just don't know what to do with my life to bring more glory to God. Well, this episode is gonna be helpful if you felt that way, because I sit down with some really remote people. I mean, these guys are as rural as it gets. I am interviewing Rob and Amanda Miller, who are farmers who intentionally relocated themselves very much in the middle of nowhere and are doing an amazing job.

Of creatively finding ways to bring glory to God with all their stuff. So sit back, stay tuned to this episode of Back to Rurality with Rob and Amanda Miller. 

 Well, Rob and Amanda, thank you for joining us here on Back to Rurality. It's awesome to have you guys. Just to help our listeners kind of have a sense of where you're coming from, can you tell us a little bit about your, where you live? So here's the question I'm asking, how rural are you?

Rob: Oh, well thanks for having us, tj. We appreciate being here. And, uh, I'll let Amanda. Start off that answer for us. 

Amanda: Thank you, tj. We are pretty rural. We sit right in between Tioga and Bradford counties and Pennsylvania. Uh, we are the northern, northeast side of the state and there's a whole lot of trees and quite a few deer that plague us in our fields that we plant.

And, uh, we have a pretty small town. Our, our home address is Columbia Crossroads, which is a pretty small little area, um, 

TJ: but has a post office. 

Amanda: It does have a post office, yes. Yeah. Impressive It does. Yep. And that's about it. 

TJ: Yeah. Right. 

Amanda: And a feed mill right next door. 

TJ: Yeah. So we're in a pretty remote part of the country, remote part of Pennsylvania.

And can you just kinda tell us, give us a little bit of a, an idea of who you are. Um, I had a specific reason of asking you to come here on the podcast, but just kind of before we get to that, tell us kind of who you are, how you met, how you became a Christian, that kind of stuff. 

Rob: Uh, I'll start out with some of it and then I'll let Amanda fill in, kind of from where we met on, I guess.

But I grew up in Maryland, actually. Um, strong, faithful family, always attended, faithful church and, and knew about Jesus and Christ early on in, in my youth, and was fortunate to have that influence and, um, gain a knowledge, understanding and acceptance of Jesus as a, as a young man, a young boy. Um, eight, 10-year-old kind of thing.

TJ: Was that through your home context or your church context? 

Rob: Church and home support, but definitely leaders and, and, uh, and teachers through the church and Sunday school. That really, um, brought me all the way there, if that makes sense. Yeah. And then of course I, I had a strong, like I said, family faith background, coming up through and then, uh, let's see.

So grew up, yes, in Maryland. Knew early on that I wanted to try something outside of, we were in a rural community there as well, not quite as rural as up here. But didn't see as much opportunity say at home on that farm where I grew up. So I was interested in looking out and looking abroad. So after high school I was wanting to go to college somewhere, uh, to broaden some horizons and gain some new understanding in education.

So I had sought out several universities and, and searched them out and did all of that. Uh, and then ended up going to Cornell University in Ithaca, New York. 

TJ: Uh, bastion of conservatism. 

Rob: Yes, absolutely. The joke there, I think was, um, Tompkins County is the county that Ithaca is in and says that Tompkins County is, uh, what was the saying, Amanda, uh, surround, it was a town that, um, was devoid of reality, you know?

Yeah, right. 

TJ: Not at all. Like the surroundings. 

Rob: Not at all around like the surroundings surrounding my rednecks. Yes. Thank you. 

TJ: Yeah, that's right. Yep. Yep. Yeah, for sure.

Alright, let me interrupt you just for a second. So you, when you were in your rural Maryland farm town, were you longing to go or you just realized if I'm going to be able to kind of grow and develop, I'm going to have to go.

Rob: I think it's more of the latter. I think I realized that I needed to, or at the time I was feeling like I needed to further my education to you know, get a real job, better job, you know, at that time my youth, that's kind of how I thought of that. Once I, once I got into college, I was exposed and opened up to new opportunities and things that were out there, and then I did develop more of a yearning to expand my knowledge.

And part of that was through a lot of international travel and my college days. 

TJ: Yeah. That's awesome. I'm, I'm curious what, was there some culture shock going to Ithaca? 

Rob: Absolutely. Yeah. Going and not, I didn't. You know, involved myself with the town as much. That's also not a huge town. But what was a culture shock were the other students that I was in the dorm room with.

Yeah. Because right off the bat, as a freshman, I was in a dorm with Cornell has a, a huge Asian population in the school. And that was one culture shock. And then there was multiple other ones too. A lot of, uh, city kids that, you know, I was around city kids at home, but not, you know, like living with them and starting to understand how they saw the world.

And life was a big eye-opener. 

TJ: Yeah. Did your foundation spiritually help? Kind of, were you well prepared to be able to navigate that? 

Rob: I would have to say yes. Yeah. 

TJ: Yeah. And I would say that that's pretty rare. Uh, I think a lot of times when you grow up in a rural place, we're not well prepared to have those kind of culture shock moments and then know how to interact.

So k kind of a trend that we look at a lot is kids who grow up in a rural place go into the city environment and they almost, the pendulum swings too far the other way because they had just never thought through some of these things before and they're very vulnerable to start believing them and walking down that road.

Um, it's funny you mentioned the thing too, having a lot of Asian students around you. When I moved to southwest Florida, we were around a lot of South American people and some Caribbean people, and I grew up in a place that's 99.9% white. So just the fact that there are people who are unlike me was a very new experience.

So yeah, 

Rob: absolutely. A hundred percent. 

TJ: Yeah. Nice. All right, so you go to Cornell, you're starting then to have your eyes expanded a little bit about what could be, where do you go after that? 

Rob: Uh, so, uh, after graduating I started working for, well, I have to tell a little bit about the travel experiences 'cause I did do a little bit of that.

Oh yeah. Right after school. Yeah. Like I had an opportunity to travel abroad and study abroad. Okay. Initially in New Zealand. Wow. And I did that for a semester and then I kind of got this little bug. That I wanted to do more of that. Mm-hmm. So I had lined up towards my senior year, a couple interesting things with mission type, not, not biblical missions, but, philanthropy or mm-hmm.

What's the term I'm looking for, abroad. Yeah. So one of those was in Zambia, Africa, and one of those was in Russia. So I did those two things and then, uh, I went back to New Zealand right immediately after graduation and worked on, and a farm over there. A friend of mine had was there as a manager.

So then I got to live there as a, uh, resident almost, uh, for three months. I think it was. Coming back from that, I started working for a bank in New England. I was, uh, in Connecticut and anyway, that's 

Amanda: all the while through agriculture though. 

Rob: It's, that's always a tie through agriculture. Yep. So, yeah. Yeah.

TJ: Why, why did the international experience, why was that so attractive to you? 

Rob: At that, I think at that time I, in my life, I just kind of had a desire to learn more about what people were like in different parts of the world, and I was as much interested in, in that aspect of the, of the people and what they were dealing with and what their lifestyles were as anything I think.

TJ: How did that impact you?

Rob: It's hard to put it into words exactly, but it gave me an appreciation for. What we have here in America. 

TJ: Mm-hmm. 

Rob: For sure. And, and a humbleness, I think that later in life I'm able to relate to that as I meet people in the mission path here and, and as we alluded to in the small community now too. 

TJ: Yeah.

That's awesome. Alright, so you end up in another fashion of conservatism in the New England states, right? 

Rob: True. Yep. 

TJ: Um, and how are you connected to agriculture still as your banking? 

Rob: So the bank that I was working for was specifically set up to lend to farmers 

TJ: Okay. 

Rob: In the ag community. 

TJ: Mm-hmm. 

Rob: So, that was how the connection was still to ag.

TJ: Yep. 

Rob: And we did, and I did that for, well, I should back up and say that the last year of college, the senior year of college is when I met Amanda. 

TJ: Okay. I was gonna ask that. 

Rob: And it actually happened to be on a, uh, international AG trip to India. Wow. So we, we, we met. In the airport going to India and then spent the next 10 days learning about each other and learning about India.

So that was pretty cool. 

TJ: Yeah. That's amazing. I don't wanna pry too much into this, but did you know you were interested in each other at that time during the trip? 

Rob: Absolutely. 

TJ: Nice. Yeah. Yeah. What a cool, like, unexpected part of going to do this trip already to be able to meet your spouse. 

Rob: Yep. 

TJ: Yeah. 

Rob: And I like picking on her a little bit because I never met her in class.

Okay. Because she never attended. 

TJ: Nice. 

Amanda: I was working. 

TJ: Uh, got it. 

Rob: It was one of these that could be, part was online. You're right. But I access things online 

TJ: too. Yeah. 

Rob: So, yeah. 

TJ: Got it. It must be in the early days of being able to do something. Yeah. And I'm not calling you old, but you're the same age. 

Amanda: So it was a Friday class and Yes.

You could watch the slides and everything afterwards. Mm-hmm. And take notes and submit. Yeah. And yeah, I worked on Friday, so that's what I did. So we didn't meet each other until it came time for the trip. 

TJ: Alright, so we gotta rewind a little with you, Amanda. Can you tell us a little bit about your upbringing?

Amanda: Yes, I was raised close to here next to you TJ. Um, Columbia Crossroads. So we're, we're living right where I grew up now. Grew up on a dairy farm and I would say a Christian family, but, a family that probably did not regularly go to church. Uh, they definitely believe in God, but not ones that studied the Bible or, um, kind of jumped right into it.

My grandmother was the one that really, uh, she picked us kids up coming down the road every Sunday and made, made us go to church with her. Wow. And she was the one, and, and the church that brought me to my faith. I was exposed to the Bible there and all the stories and, and through my grandmother, she definitely instilled as a young woman that it was incredibly important to have faith.

Uh, she, she herself had a whole nother life of trials. But that was definitely something she wanted to bestow on her grandchildren. So I give my grandmother the most credit in that regard. 

TJ: Yeah. Praise God. 

Amanda: Yep. Uh, also, uh, kind of a typical teen. Didn't have any idea what I wanted to do, and, uh, reluctantly said yes to Cornell.

My parents really wanted to make that happen. Uh, they did have an excellent financial aid program, uh, through the state program at Cornell. And which is obviously if the Lord will, that's what, what happened. And off I went and I'm chuckling at some of the stories because my roommate was a Korean girl. Okay.

And I looked at her and thought, I am not gonna be able to speak to her. That's how you know, country bumpkin I was. And she looked at me and she had gone online to see my profile and thought, oh my word, this girl lives in a barn. That's awesome. So we both had really funny stories. We're still very close today.

Cool. I actually went to go visit her in Italy a few years ago. She lives abroad now with her family. And, uh, again, my eyes were open to the, the, the size of the world around me. And I would say probably differently than Rob, I was probably not as well versed. I was, um, a typical college kid in the sense that I strayed a bit from my faith in college.

Mm-hmm. Now as I matured and kind of figured out through some mistakes, um, uh, towards my senior year, I was searching again. I was really looking for what does that look like? I did join a, a church on campus and, um, I really just was looking ahead at where, what does this all look like? And then voila, you know, our senior year I met Rob.

On that trip and, and I knew immediately, I emailed my mother when we landed in Dubai and I said, mom, you'll never believe it. But I met the guy I am going to marry. Wow. 

TJ: All right. 

Amanda: On the plane to India. And I'll never forget because her email back, I had left out the fact that he was from Cornell. Okay. And came with me.

TJ: Right. 

Amanda: She was concerned. He was from India International. 

TJ: Yeah. Right. Wow. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. That's really cool. 

Amanda: Yeah. 

TJ: You're one of few people I've heard who have done this, so my wife did the same thing with her mom when we met. She went back and said, I've met the guy I'm gonna marry. 

Amanda: Really?

TJ: Yeah. 

Amanda: Oh my goodness. 

TJ: That so you and Katie have to connect on that. 

Amanda: I had to convince him, you know? 

TJ: Yeah, sure. I, I don't, I imagine that's not true. Yeah. Yeah. 

Amanda: I knew right away. 

TJ: Yeah. And it is cool too, how having been on some international trips, the bond that you form with your team in general is very different.

But then to have this kind of relationship that comes outta that is really sweet. 

Amanda: Yeah. 

TJ: Alright, so at, at are, do you go on the journey to New England as well? 

Amanda: No. At that point we had chosen our jobs, so I, uh, wasn't, wasn't far though. I took a dairy sales job out in New York State, so we were commuting back and forth to see one another.

And we, I did actually get to chance to go to New Zealand to visit with him. We did the old Zoom calls. Mm-hmm. Once a week when he was abroad. And So 

TJ: Was it Skype or was it?

Amanda: It was Skype. It was Skype. I

TJ: can still hear those little, 

Amanda: yeah, yeah, right. That's exactly what it was. Yeah. So then we landed in Central New York together in Casnovia.

Okay. I was still doing dairy sales. Uh, he just transferred within the bank to a different office so we could get married and live together. And it was on our honeymoon. We went on a cruise. Up to Canada and no cell service for a week, come back and our phones are all lit up. And my company had sold its dairy division.

Wow. So I was being sold with it. I didn't really know if I had a job. And here we had lived in Casnovia for. I dunno. Six months. 

Rob: No, I was gonna say not even a year. 

Amanda: Not even. Yeah. And we, um, were faced with a new decision, uh, because then I had a job opportunity to move to Indianapolis and become a marketer. 

Speaker 4: Okay.

Amanda: For this new company. And Rob had the infinite wisdom. He said, you know, we're just married and there's no other time in our life that we'll just be able to go move because hopefully someday we'll have kids, we'll be more settled in and it'll be less likely that we would do that. So that's just what we did.

Uh, he didn't have a job lined up. We had to trust the Lord in that worked out beautifully. He found a farm, uh, through a mutual friend that was looking for kind of a CFO type and someone that could also drive a, combine, somebody good at numbers and, and operate. 

TJ: Nice. 

Amanda: And he met the Howell family out there, which he can expand on.

And, and I started my career really in communications then as a, as a marketer and working for, uh, the upper level, CEOs in the company writing speeches and preparing media interviews and all the like, kind of like I would call a dream job probably. Yeah. 

TJ: That kind of is the dream I think a lot of rural kids have.

I mean, I, I felt that way where I, I actually wasn't as gracious as you Rob. I wanted out of here so bad. From the time I was like nine, I remember driving around the city of Pittsburgh and we drove past what were probably projects and I'm nine years old and I see like people out doing stuff and it looks exciting and I told my parents.

I wanna live there. And they were like, you're crazy. But I never lost that desire to live in a bigger place. Um, so you, you had the kind of the typical dream come true of. Yep. Grew up in a small place, the culture shock of Cornell, which then leads you away. How did that change you as a person going to a bigger environment?

Amanda: I think it really just broadens your understanding of people in the world around you. In one way it exposes you to a myriad of things, right. But at the same time, it shows you how small our world is in a way, and that we're all still people. But I, I think it was really just a, an experience that you wouldn't trade for anything.

'cause it, it really taught me so much about how the world works and, and every, everything with that. 

TJ: Yeah. So you don't have to take the debate on this. I'll come back to you in a second, Rob, with the question on this. But in the Hallmark movies. The people who grow up and move away develop a little bit of a distaste for the place they grew up in.

Did you experience that at all? 

Amanda: No, I think, I actually had the opposite and maybe a yearning to come home. 

TJ: Okay. 

Amanda: And there might've been an initial. I, I think I was definitely caught up in the, I live in the city. I, I say we lived in a bubble. I went, we went to work with people that had made the same income.

We lived on a, a little cul-de-sac where everybody made the same amount 'cause we all had the same house. Mm-hmm. So I was never outside of that realm unless we visited home. And it was like this constant reminder that I'm kind of living in this little false world over there. Right. Um, not that they don't deal with their own problems, but we're always trying to keep up with the Joneses.

Right? Mm-hmm. And I, I think there was a, there's more to life than this, and, but I did get caught up in it, you know, there was a, we need a better car. I, I'm embarrassed to drive this old car to work, you know? I, and, and when we go to the point where I had to leave that job, that's where that difficulty, that self selfishness came in.

Sure. Um, because I like to identify as someone that has this nice job and I've worked hard to get here and 

TJ: Yeah. 

Amanda: And, uh, so on and so forth. Yeah. But I think there was always a little yearning to return. 

TJ: Yeah. Right. So I wanna come back to that and I wanna hear a little bit more about the change of your identity going back to rural.

But Rob, I'm curious the difference between a Maryland small farm where there weren't a lot of opportunities and now you're in Indianapolis, both able to drive a combine and crunch the numbers. How is that different for you? 

Rob: Uh, yeah, it was a lot different. I mean, farming is, is farming all across the country, I think.

But as far as some of the challenges that you have, right. But, um. The size and scope and and scale of the business structure was very different. 

TJ: Mm-hmm. 

Rob: And, um, 

Speaker 4: what about the acres the size of the farm? 

Rob: Yeah. Now, now it's a little bit foggy, but I, if I remember correctly, they were right around 5,000, five or 6,000 total acres at that time.

TJ: Wow. What kind of farm? 

Rob: This would be considered a traditional crop farm. However, they also, uh, dabbled into some produce in a whole scale type scenario. Wow. So we're talking like 300 acres of tomatoes and 400 of like pumpkins and stuff like Yeah. Very intense. Very high. Um, yeah, high intensity and high value crops.

Sure. On those two sides. And then the other piece of it that might, you might be asking is like traditional corn and soybean, right? Rotation farming. 

TJ: Mm-hmm.

And being in a closer to a city environment, was that a lot different? 

Rob: Uh, not on the farm side. So I actually traveled outside of the city, uh, about 45 to 50 minute drive each day.

For me, that was different. Yeah. Because I was used to waking up, walking outside and being on the job site. Right. Yeah. Right. And so this was a little bit different from that perspective, driving outside of the city, but I, I drove out into the rural community mm-hmm. Outside of Indianapolis for my daily job.

So I didn't feel some of the same things as Amanda did, except that our, our social life, our personal life was definitely in and around the city. Mm-hmm. She alluded to things like, um, how you asked that, about how the perspective changed and how it affected us, and, you know, you did start to get a little bit of a sense.

Well, we, I mean, I, I say it was tempting to, anyway, have that sense of, um. You know, we're, we're a little bit, uh, better off, we're a little bit, you know, more well versed, we're a little more educated, whatever, and had access to things right inside the city, you know, all of the, where did you go to dinner kind of thing.

Mm-hmm. Versus, um, so we, that way. 

Amanda: We went to Pacers games and cults games. You know, at one point we were in the suite with, you know, this or that, CEO, like the opportunities were awesome, but a very, very different life than what we had grown up with. Right? 

TJ: Sure. 

Rob: Mm-hmm. 

TJ: And that's, that's part of the, I think the draw away from a place like this is you're never gonna have those kind of opportunities mm-hmm.

In a place like this. And it is, it's a great experience to be able to go to those kind of things. I had some of that kind of experience being out of our area as well. And you guys don't sound as sinful and horrible. It was. I am, but I had unknowingly and certainly unintentionally. Developed kind of a superiority feeling to some of my classmates who just stayed here and never left.

And I'll, I'll give a terrible example of my sinful heart. Like I would come back and there might be somebody who's working the same job that they were working in high school, and I just, in my mind thought, I'm glad I'm not doing that. You know, I didn't think lower the person or whatever. Just, I'm really glad that I was kind of able to rise up and move on from this area.

Mm-hmm. Now I understand that that is totally wrong thinking and, and there's a lot of pride in sin that's associated with that, but I think maybe some of our listeners could identify with the feeling of either I got out of a place and experienced something more and I came back or. I never have left this place.

And I do, I'm attracted to the idea of going somewhere bigger and better. Um, but now you've come back and you know that bigger isn't necessarily better. Can you kinda help us with some of that journey? So we were gonna pick up, Amanda with you had some of the identity crisis, a little bit of. You know, this is, this is who I am and what I do to shifting back, I'm just very curious how you guys even started thinking about the idea of coming back.

Amanda: Yeah. Well, while we were out there, Rob took advantage of Indiana's state paid, um, education program. So he was able to go back for, um, a Bachelor's of Administration and economics. So two degrees from Purdue and Indiana University for a very affordable rate. And I knew as his wife that we moved out there for me, there would come a day where he'd say, I'm ready to go do something else.

I knew that was not our final destination. And that day came upon graduation. He's like, I'm kind of ready to do my own thing. I'd like to farm and, and kind of own an operation and we had fun exploring that. That was a fun stage of life. We talked about beef cattle in Colorado and chili peppers in Texas.

Wow. Uh, we went down to New Jersey. 

Rob: Potatoes on Eastern Shore. 

Amanda: Yep. Yeah. Uh, through Lay's potato chips. And at that same time, uh, at my family's farm was calling and saying, Hey, we're looking to make a jump from a t stall barn to renting a larger facility. 

TJ: Say, tell us real quick for those of us who might not know what a t stall barn is.

Amanda: Yeah. A T stall barn would generally be a smaller barn of 80 to a hundred cows where the cows lead into an individual stall and you milk 'em right at the stall. Okay. Um, moving into a parlor situation, where we jumped to, was it about 400 cows? 

Rob: Yeah. Before between four and 500. 

Amanda: When we moved back. And then my brother-in-law was really the dairy guy at the time, and my sister, they had already moved home.

But they, to support a farm of that size. He was looking for someone that had some crop knowledge, some banking knowledge, um, and really to do it together. So that opportunity presented itself and, and we figured out pretty quickly that that was. A real possibility for us not to mention, uh, we had started having kids.

Right. So I think that really does change the scope, you know, be before this, we were just the two of us, right? We could go and do and travel. And I had had my oldest son at that time in daycare and we had a lot of weekends where he was with a nanny. And it was really starting to weigh on me as a mother.

I was like, I, why do I have children if I don't want, if I'm not with them? Yeah. And um, he was really not with me more than he was with me, and that really bothered me. So I knew that day was coming. I had spent, we had, we were plugged into a great church out there and I spent a lot of time with another couple we might mention to you to speak on this uh, podcast.

I had really spoken to her a lot about it 'cause she was a pediatrician and worked a lot and just how I really wanted to be more of a mother. And finally he said, let's do this and we move home. And I gave up a job. At that point I was the, the writer for the CEO and I worked almost seven days a week.

Wow. If anybody's familiar with communications, it never stops. Mm-hmm. I'd be woken up at three in the morning when he is calling from Argentina 'cause I need help with a slide deck or I'm talking to this media outlet, who are they? And again, it was a dream job for what I used to be. But now as a mother it was saying this is just not a good fit.

But that was an extremely hard thing to put my selfish desires of who I thought I was to the side and move home. And here I move home and all the friends that I had in high school are still there. Mm-hmm. And they're doing things, um, which are great, but I didn't do the best job at staying connected with them.

I didn't know even where to take my kids to the doctor. I had never been an adult in my little hometown. Sure. Yeah. And I was, I went to be straight, basically stay at home, um, because the kids were little. Uh, Jack was two and Wesley was six months of age. And there were not any daycare options at that point.

There was a couple preschool programs, but literally just nothing close as far as a daycare option. And that first year TJ was one I'll never forget, uh, talk about a depressed state. I was, I went from, you know, doing my own thing very busy to now being, serving my children on their schedule. And I had never been a stay at home mom before.

Sure. So it was a major shift. Uh, but we made it through by the grace of the Lord. 

TJ: Yeah. And this is not uncommon to hear. That sometimes the culture shock of coming back into a life that is typically rural is almost harder than the culture shock of going out. Right? Everything's kind of exciting and new and you know, you're learning, oh, there's other people in different cultures and we actually can relate.

And then you come back to something that is kind of the same as it's always been. 

Amanda: Yep. 

TJ: And now you're getting plugged into that, even, even to say like, there's not a daycare lo locally or I'm not sure where to go to the doctor going from Indianapolis where there's everything right there. Yep. To now this is just.

There's a lot of services and things that just aren't here. 

Amanda: Yep. 

TJ: Those things are challenging. So how did you sort through that year of being discouraged? 

Amanda: It, it was day by day, you know, definitely trying to reach out. I was really blessed with the family, the castles who, you know. Mm-hmm. They came to do a little work on the old farmhouse that we'd moved into, and I had known Jeremy A.

Little bit since childhood, but never met his wife. And he had listened to me playing Family Life Radio, which was the only radio station that played at our house. Right. So I can't even take credit for choosing it. 

TJ: Yeah. Local Christian radio station. 

Amanda: It was the only one that came through those radio channels and he told his wife, he said, you know, you should really go.

Interact with this woman 'cause she doesn't really know anybody and she can't be all that bad because she listens to family life. 

TJ: Nice. 

Amanda: That's what he told her. Yeah. And again, I just, uh, he had mentioned that she might enjoy meeting me. She had a daughter the same age and, um, he got us connected. And, and it was through that relationship that I started to kind of rebuild that bravery.

You know, I'm like, I need to interact with other moms. I need to have friends. We need to have things to go do, or I'm just gonna go stir crazy in the house. And that was a great example of how that came to be. We joined a local church, a very, very small local church. But those few families there immediately connected, picked us up, you know, have us for dinner, let's go to the park together, let's go to the library story hour.

So it, it was a slow build, but it, yeah, it definitely is nothing like that today. 

TJ: How did that compare to the relationships that you had in Indianapolis? 

Amanda: Again, it was kind of difficult because it was like starting over. Mm-hmm. The, the families that we'd gotten to know in Indy had, we'd been there for almost seven years and they were like a family because we didn't have family out there.

Right. I did have my parents here, um, but I didn't have that friend network. Mm-hmm. And I didn't have an office to go make friends. 'cause we, we spent a lot of time with our office friends outside of work, so it was kind of like starting over e even though it was my hometown. 

TJ: I totally get that. Did you have a harder time breaking in here, do you feel like, than what you did out there?

Amanda: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It, it, uh, it wasn't a natural thing Right. To, to bring somebody new or even old. Right, sure. Back into the equation. 

TJ: Yeah. 

Amanda: Yep. 

TJ: Yeah, that's right. And like you said, in a bigger place, oftentimes. People aren't from there. So it's, you can become faster friends. 

Amanda: Yep, yep. It's, it's normal to see somebody new at a gathering or meet somebody new at church.

TJ: That's right. 

Amanda: Yep. 

TJ: Do you have any sense of the depth of relationship? Do you feel like here there's any more, any greater significance to the depth that people will go compared to out there? 

Amanda: Yes. So I would say that now we've been here for 12 years. The relationships I have now are much deeper than those out in Indiana for that six or seven outside of the one couple, that we continue to be friends with today.

And they followed us home a year later. Wow. And they live up in Corning, so we still remain good friends, but Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Particularly as we've gone through trials in life, our, our church and our, our peers right here have much, much deeper. 

TJ: Yeah. I think that's one of the beautiful things of a small community.

It, it may be harder to get in or feel slower, but once you're in 

Amanda: That's a great point. 

TJ: Yeah. They're, they're very much there with you. 

Amanda: Mm-hmm. 

TJ: So, yeah. That's good. So, Rob, you came back, Amanda's struggling, you're trying to figure out farm stuff. How does this, how do you process this whole transition?

Rob: Yeah, I feel a little bit guilty in some ways 'cause I think it was a lot easier on me. Mm-hmm. Because I was coming back into an, into a farming community and I was like immediately plugged in all the local dealerships, feed mills, you know, people you buy stuff from. It was a lot easier for me. Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. 

TJ: That makes sense. And uh, you know, this podcast isn't necessarily aimed at rural moms, but I think it would probably be encouraging to other rural moms to hear the honesty of the struggle that you faced. Because they could probably relate to having a husband who is out doing those things.

I remember even my wife telling me before, like, you know, you're off doing things with other people in the congregation of the pastor. I just need some adult time. I need to not be wiping a nose for just like an hour. You know? 

Rob: That's definitely a, I I can echo that. Oh, a hundred percent. Because I was every day leaving the house.

Yeah. To go interact with employees, coworker, you know, vendors and other people in the community, uh, every day where she was not. 

TJ: Yeah. Were you aware of the way that she was struggling? 

Rob: Probably not in as soon as I should have it. It was a while before I kind of, it kind of sank in as to why she was struggling.

'cause when we moved back here, in my mind it was like. Oh, she, she has friends here. She knows people here. I'm the new guy. I'm the guy that's not gonna, you know, end up knowing anybody and not have any friends. But I, but because of the nature of my work mm-hmm. It plugged me in quicker back into the community I would even say than, than her.

TJ: Yeah. 

Rob: Which is weird. 'cause I, I went from knowing no one to suddenly, within a short six or 12 month timeframe, maybe knowing more, or at least interacting on a daily basis with more people than she had. 

TJ: Yeah. Season of life, but also history. And, you know, I, I don't know how you felt about this, Amanda, but I'm not the person that I was when I was in high school.

And so coming back to the small town, my relationships were very different and I didn't know how to navigate that. 

Amanda: Yep, yep. I would absolutely agree. 

TJ: Yeah. So you can feel maybe even a little more isolated and lonely. 

Amanda: Yep. 

TJ: Right. In your own hometown. Mm-hmm. 

Amanda: Yep. 

TJ: Which is kind of a weird unexpected side effect.

Amanda: Yeah. Well, you're coming from this experience that none of these people have had, so even trying to find that commonality on what to talk about. 

TJ: That's right. 

Amanda: You know, it's, it's just even hard to, I remember being like, I don't know what to talk about. Yeah. I've never been a stay at home mom. Right. Like, what do I even ask?

TJ: Yeah. So you got plugged into the church pretty early. How did that small church minister to you guys during that season? 

Amanda: I think, um, plugging us in and embracing us really. There was two other little families there with kids the same age. So just even having a Sunday morning where I could talk to an adult while we sat in the nursery, you know, again, it was just ever so slow.

Um, but they, you know, took, took us right in and dedicated our children and asked us to be involved in the chorus. You know, a young family moving into a very rural church. They were quite excited Yeah. To see us. 

TJ: Right. 

Rob: They were certainly one of the first like, um, you know, folks that just opened their arms to welcome us in.

Right. And that, that was huge. Mm-hmm. As a body of people welcoming us in as a group, which is, 

Amanda: yeah. 

Rob: And that was the most instant way of. Feel like you were welcomed into this small community was through that small local church. That was key, I think. 

TJ: Yeah. 

Amanda: Another really important point was they were five minutes down the road, so the people that did go to that church were our neighbors, right?

So I remember being like, kind of blown away that this person lived here and right here and right there, but they could also bring us a meal, or they showed up to drop this, you know, flyer off for this event where even in Indianapolis we traveled 15 minutes to a very large church. And we didn't really know where any of those folks lived, you know, other than our little small group.

So it was just kind of a, again, it was a small church that felt like maybe it didn't offer a lot, but at the same time it, it really brought in our direct community. 

TJ: Yeah, I love that. On a couple levels, and, and this really highlights part of why this podcast exists, so. In a lot of small towns, for whatever reason, the little white church had to close its doors and we, we drive by 'em all the time.

You guys probably drove by closed churches on your way here at some point. Whether you saw 'em or not. There's one just three miles down the road from here that actually fell into a pile of rubble and no one's even been around to clean it up. 'cause the church has just completely disbanded. Sadly, on that one, across the street is the church's cemetery.

And I often think about how the people who cared are all buried in the cemetery and that just didn't transfer to the next generation for whatever reason. And you're highlighting the importance of number one, this. It's not like some whizzbang program the church had that it was just the normal means of grace.

They just welcomed you in. They loved you, they preached the word, you sat under the godly teaching, all that kinda stuff. Just a mere church. And that's exactly what we need. That's what God intends, and it serves our soul so well. Secondly what you just said is that you just called it important that it was five minutes down the road.

That is such an understated reality and so many of us are willing to drive out of our rural communities to somewhere else and we miss the reality that doing ministry with your neighbors is part of the way that God shows his glory throughout that whole region. Mm-hmm. You know, the Christians who are there together in that little community caring for one another, show the kind of love that demonstrates the love that Christ has for us.

Mm-hmm. That's huge. So I'd love that that is a part of your story coming back and a church being the thing that mostly welcomed you into the community is huge. 

Amanda: Yep. 

TJ: Alright, so you come back, I'm sure there are some things that are exciting about being in a small place and probably some things that are challenging.

So let's just start with some of the joys. What are some of the joys that were maybe refreshing going, oh, it's nice to be back in a small town. 

Amanda: Got some? 

Rob: Well, I can start off on a couple. Like from a family perspective, it was kind of exactly what we had hoped for, I guess. And the fact that every morning we could spend time with the kids, or at least, well, I, for me, I could spend time, I know Amanda was with them all the time, but. 

TJ: They're not sending traffic on a 45.

Rob: Yeah, exactly. That's huge. Not, not traveling hours on each end of the day and working long hours and maybe seeing them in the morning, but probably not, and then getting home after they're in bed. Being able to be plugged in in the family life was a huge joy for me. Yeah. 

Amanda: Family nearby.

My grandparents, you know, or my parents lived four miles away, so built in babysitters and Yeah. Even his parents lived in Maryland, but it was a four hour drive versus a 10 hour drive. Right. You know, so they, they just even visited a lot more frequently than they could have in Indiana. 

TJ: Yeah. 

Amanda: Yeah. 

TJ: I remember thinking about when I lived down in Florida, if, if the pattern continues, I'm only gonna see my parents like a couple more dozen times ever, probably in their, before they die and being closer to them in, in a nearby community, you see 'em, I mean, maybe dozens of times in a week.

Mm-hmm. Which is amazing. So, yeah. Huge benefit. 

Amanda: Yeah. And the grandkids will have, they have a relationship with their grandparents where they wouldn't have, if we lived in Indianapolis Yeah. They would know them, but not a relationship. 

TJ: Yeah. 

Amanda: Yeah. 

TJ: That's right. That's great. Any other, anything else that was like, man, this is just nice.

This is refreshing. 

Amanda: I think just living in rural America, honestly, maybe everybody's different, but the sprawling space, uh, the beauty of Pennsylvania and the rural hills and the crops. Indiana we loved because it, uh, they balance their budget every year and they gave tax dollars back to their citizens every year.

TJ: Yeah. 

Amanda: There were a lot of things we loved about Indiana, but it was so flat and it was all corn, which Rob might disagree with me, probably liked that you liked that view. Right. But I loved coming back to PA and the, the beauty of the area. 

TJ: Yeah. 

Rob: Yeah. My culture shock was the topography. 

TJ: Okay. Right. Is that an obstacle for you?

Rob: It, yeah, it, it continues to always be an obstacle for all the farmers in the area here. But yeah, for sure. It's a, it's a challenge, but I've grown to appreciate even in that challenge, to appreciate the, you know, every day when I'm out there, the views, you know, how the bear gorgeous countryside is, and the wildlife and everything.

TJ: Yeah, that's right. So you didn't miss the cul-de-sac after all? 

Amanda: No. 

TJ: Yeah, 

Amanda: I don't think so. Yeah. 

TJ: And everybody's car is old, dirty here, 

Amanda: so. Yes, yes. Yeah, we fit right in. 

TJ: Yeah, that's right. 

Amanda: Yeah, 

TJ: that's, that's good. Alright, so those are some of the joys. What are some of the challenges you faced coming back? 

Rob: And I said I got plugged in right away, but I think probably one of my challenges, one of my greater challenges was I, it took me a long time to find that. One or two Godly, good friends for me 'cause I certainly didn't know anyone at all when I moved here other than her family really. And going through day-to-day issues or struggles or whatever.

And not having that male friend, in my case, a male friend, that I could just lean on. That took time, but eventually came through. A, a man in our church, uh, as we shifted to a new church in time. But that, uh, was one of the biggest challenges for me, was finding that that godly, friendship. Individual, that person that I could reach out to about things that are more personal maybe or more, faith-based than just the day to day grinds of.

How do I operate a business? 

TJ: Did you find any truth to the stereotype that rural guys are a little more closed that way? 

Rob: I would say so. Outside of the church for sure. Right. Inside the church, there's a different level of, uh, openness there, I think. But certainly outside the church there, there's, you know, they kinda already have their.

Friends, they're not looking for a new one 'cause they have, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, kind of like that is how it felt a little bit. 

TJ: Yeah.

What about a willingness to be emotional or share some of those kind of things that guys maybe struggle with a little more naturally anyway, rural guys are not known for wanting to let their emotions show.

Did you experience, could you relate to that at all? 

Rob: Uh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yep. I can see that for sure. 

TJ: Yeah, that was a challenge I felt here too, because I was very free to share that kind of stuff with my soft city friends. Um, but my rough and tough rural friends weren't as quick to want to have those kind of conversations.

Rob: Yep. 

TJ: Yeah. 

Rob: That's, I mean, you call it a stereotype or whatever, but it's a true thing that goes on in a rural community. Guys that live in a, in an area like this, they, they feel like they need to be perceived as tough and strong. So they're not nearly as willing to open up. 

TJ: And you're around the same people all the time.

Rob: Right. 

TJ: You know, I would go to Walmart or something outta this area and I would never see anybody I know, but here I go to Walmart and I just need to plan an extra hour because I'm gonna be talking to all the people that I know. So being around the same people all the time, I think that's another reason that people are often a little bit closed because I can't escape whatever reputation I end up developing through this.

How did you break through that?

Rob: Boy, I'm not quite sure how to answer that one. Tj. I, yeah, I might, I might have to come back around to that one. 

TJ: Can you think of some of the ways that you worked through realizing I don't have close guy friends with depth in the relationship to getting in the place you are now, where you have some of those things? Is it a time investment? 

Rob: Yeah. 

Amanda: Church was, 

Rob: yeah.

I mean, for me it was really through church and, and the guy and the guy, the guy community in the church. Mm-hmm. And for me, that's really what it was. 

TJ: So you're probably not just showing up Sunday morning right before church starts and leaving right away. 

Rob: Or if we are, we're staying after quite a while to make sure we catch up with those, fellows that I want to.

Yeah. 

TJ: Yep. So taking advantage of time together with other guys, that seems to be one of the biggest things Yeah. That, that pushes through it and experiences all kinds of things that you share. Are you a hunter? 

Rob: I am. 

TJ: Did it help to spend time with guys in the truck and in the woods and that 

Rob: Yeah. There's a, there's a unique bond there Yeah.

With a couple guys that hunt together and so forth. That's been a, a real blessing. 

TJ: Yeah. 

Rob: Yeah. For 

Amanda: sure. I don't mean to overstep, but the one gentleman he's speaking of, um, is also a self-employed businessmen. So they had a lot of time in the truck together. They'd go look at equipment together, uh, they'd go look at a herd of cows together.

So I think time is the key piece there. 'cause that's how that friendship developed. And then we switched to his church and it, and it just opened up the doors. And where there's a men's group, there's men bible studies, you know, there's just all these more opportunities. 

TJ: Yeah, yeah. Time is so essential. And here you have the opportunity, I think at, to, to slow down a little bit.

I found this to be true that the pace where I was at in a bigger environment was just everybody's on the go and everyone's still busy here. I'm not, I don't mean to say that we're not busy, but there is the ability, I think, to set aside some time to develop relationships here, to do something like go hunting or whatever, go to men's retreat, these kind of things that might not happen and.

Those other places is naturally. Are other challenges that you faced, either of you as you've come back to a rural place? 

Amanda: I think we captured the big ones. 

TJ: Yeah. 

Amanda: Mm-hmm. 

TJ: Are there conveniences you miss? 

Amanda: Oh, the food options, right? Absolutely. 

TJ: Yeah. 

Amanda: I have to do most of the cooking now, tj. 

TJ: Yeah. How about it? Right. 

Amanda: So, yeah. Uh, had to refine my cooking skills Yep. To get a variety of food. 

TJ: Yeah. 

Amanda: Yeah. 

TJ: Food is definitely a challenging one. You've figured out the whole doctor thing and all that kind of stuff. Have you felt like there's been as good a care here as you would've experienced somewhere else? 

Amanda: Yeah. So that's an interesting one because,

I think in Indianapolis anyway, the, the care was probably better for kids in that specific case. There was just pediatrician's offices right there, ample, you know, opportunities to do a walk-ins for kids, people that looked at kids all day and new kids. That was, we have to travel, you know, 45 minutes to see a pediatrician in our case, which ended up being this good friend that came from Indiana out here.

TJ: Wow. Yeah. That's great. 

Amanda: So I feel like we have to travel farther, but they're, they're there. But in an interesting scenario now that we're older, Rob's dad is very ill with prostate cancer and um, of course we're not right there living it, but they live right outside of Baltimore. And the difficulty for someone in that position to get time with a doctor is in.

Is, is amazing to me. Whereas I know the local doctors at the Troy Guthrie clinic, one, two of which I graduated high school with. Mm-hmm. And I can call them and get in that day if I needed something. It, and I'm, so I back to that small town connection. Whereas they don't have, they don't know any of these doctors.

They're, they're at the, the will of the system, you know, so it might be six weeks before they get in, uh, to see a doctor and they can't talk to 'em on the phone like I can here. So I, I, there's definitely pros and cons. I think you have to travel to see some of the specialties, but um, you know, we do have a hospital right in our small town and if I needed to get in, I can get in.

TJ: Yeah. And we are in danger of losing that kind of stuff, which is a challenge. And I hope that it doesn't go this direction, but because a lot of people still think, like we thought, you and I when we were younger, of the opportunities are out there somewhere else. To grow up, become a doctor, spend all that money doing that, to go back to your small town seems like it's not really even a possibility and certainly it's not the way to move forward in your field.

So we lose a lot of that kinda stuff. There's actually a doctor in our area, he's based in Williamsport, who's training guys to be rural. And the number one thing that's different about their training is just that their placements are rural, so they get exposure to living in a rural community, and then the hope is that they're gonna fall in love with that and wanna stay.

Yeah. And it's been pretty effective so far. So I'm hoping we see a shift, obviously not just through this podcast, but through all kinds of things like this, where we start sharing some of the beauties of rural and getting the heart of God for rural places back in spots like this. So we're not just overlooking the heartland of America in favor of the small.

When I say small, small in terms of like land mass, the small chunks that are actually the cities where everybody wants to go. But to be able to have the exact kind of thing that you just talked about with, I know who the doctors are, I can call them. They're actually interested in who my family is. 'cause we live in the same community together.

Yeah. And we care for each other that way. Mm-hmm. I just think there's so much awesome potential for gospel demonstration through that kind of stuff. Alright, so we've covered a lot of this. I do want to spend just a few minutes here talking about some of the ways that you guys are stewarding the resources God has entrusted to you to make him known in your area.

So having Christians in a place that's important, but Christians then using the stuff that God gives them. To show his glory is vital. And I have been so encouraged by the way that you guys have done that. Can you just share a little bit about some of the ways you've leveraged the farm as an opportunity to share the gospel?

Rob: Yeah, I'll start just to, to open it up, but Amanda has a little more in depth on, on this that she's gotten into in the last few years. But I will say, you know, when we first came back, my focus on the farm was like purely business. Like I just, it was just purely like what could we do to profit? And I didn't have that, foresight at that time to understand more of the bigger picture of what God was trying to do through it.

And I actually have to admit, or, or open up to you that it was through some real struggles on the farm. I'm speaking financially really, and some. Even so some of that, plus there was some personnel, um, struggles for a period of time. And I think that is what God was doing in that situation to bring me to a point where I realized that this farm was not about me.

It wasn't about the profit that I'm making, that I'm, everything that I'm doing is for the Lord and how can I use this environment that I'm in every day to bring him glory and to bring people to know him more. Mm-hmm. And I began through some of those struggles on the farm to, to shift my, my thought process on that.

And it's become much more of a focus point now to say in each conversation with an employee or in each conversation about a struggle on the farm. Like how can I bring God into this equation? How can I bring the message of Christ through to this employee or to this, uh, person I'm interacting about this business decision on the farm?

So that has really begin, began to, to shift or has shifted and is and is working through now. But then as you think about, so that's like from a business perspective with people and employees and, and vendors that we interact with, but then on like the physical assets that we have on the farm and how we utilize some of that, I'm gonna let Amanda kind of talk a little bit about how she's developed this agritourism and, and through some of that has elevated her platform for Christ.

TJ: Before we do that. Sure. Can I just ask you a couple follow up questions? Sure. So, is it harder to find personnel on a rural farm than it would be in an near an urban area? 

Rob: Because of lack of options, like number of people. Yes. Right. 

TJ: Yeah. 

Rob: For sure there's a challenge in rural communities to find people that want to do that job day in and day out.

TJ: And just generally speaking, for the average rural farmer, I, so I've noticed, we talked about churches falling down. There's a ton of barns falling down. Has it become harder to be a rural farmer? 

Rob: Yes. I mean, farming generally is all about rural communities, and it's not just because we're a rural farmer, I think, but farming in general. One of the things that could be tied to this could be that some of the conversation earlier where a lot of your young people, um, who are ambitious and have desires, like often like your story, TJ, is they want to get away from it, right?

So because of that, then. The farms that are here maybe don't have as much of a pool of talent that want to be on the farm. So that's, that's a challenge for a lot of, of our farmers. Always good people is a challenge on the farm. 

TJ: Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. 

Rob: Yeah. 

TJ: And is it harder to be profitable when you're so far away from bigger places?

So I'm showing some of my ignorance 'cause I'm not a farmer. I almost was, do you know this? 

Rob: No, I didn't know this. 

TJ: My grandparents had a potato farm. And I think it was Lay's that you mentioned earlier that they were selling to in Potter County. And I am the first generation off the farm, so my dad had to make the choice, does he want to continue on the farm?

And my grandparents had started kind of a side thing that brought them over here to Tioga County from Potter County. But I was very close and I do know how to pick rocks because I had to do that growing up. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, being a little ignorant about the industry, it, my perception as an outsider is that bigger farms, closer to bigger places are kind of dominating.

And then the kind of mom and pops. Outfits and places like what we live are struggling in comparison to that, to that. Is that semi accurate? 

Rob: Yeah. There I would, there's some truths in that. The specific location, I wouldn't say is always a factor. Okay. If you're closer to a bigger area or a bigger population or not.

Now, if, if you're, and it depends on the industry within the farming community, right? If you're a, a produce guy supplying fresh vegetables, then yeah. You closer to a city center would aid you. But as far as a commodity based farming, that's a little bit. Irrespective of Of location. Of location.

TJ: Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. That makes sense. So what is it that leads to so many of the farms just falling apart, going by the wayside? Is it just primarily the generations aren't wanting to carry it on? 

Rob: That's a big piece of it. 

TJ: Yeah. 

Rob: Yeah, that's a big piece of it. The next generation that's coming has seen the struggles maybe or something, and just doesn't want to do that for their career.

TJ: It's fascinating to me the parallel between that and the church, because that's a lot of the reasons that churches are struggling as well. One generation did awesome and the next generation just isn't as interested. Mm-hmm. And then it just kind of slowly fades and isn't sustainable anymore. 

Rob: Yep. And a whole lot of that is in, in the agriculture community, it's tied to the economics.

If, if someone is raised up on a farm and, and that period of time that 10 to 15 years of economic return for the farm has been good and profitable. Mm-hmm. There's actually, I think, a lot higher chance that that generation is interested back in the farm. 

Yeah. 

Rob: And conversely, you know, if, if the parents have been struggling, you know, day in and day out 

TJ: mm-hmm. Why would I want this life? 

Rob: Nor would the parents want them to be there. Yeah. So there's a lot of discouragement from the parents in a lot of cases to the next generation. You don't wanna do this, go, go to college, go find a new job. Yeah. And actually I had some of that at, you know, growing up. 

TJ: Sure. 

Rob: You know, my father was also like, there's, there's better out there.

Mm-hmm. You know, go, go to college, go find something. 

TJ: Yeah. Yeah. And that's an interesting thing about rural in general is we do kind of perpetuate some of the things that are actually causing us harm. You know, we're collapsing in part 'cause we are sending people out. So on one side we lament it on the other side, we're like, but you actually do need to get out here.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Excuse me, sorry. Okay. So Amanda, we promised to come back to you with some of the agritourism stuff. Can you just tell us what that word means and then how are you guys pursuing it? 

Amanda: Yeah, so agritourism was a way as my children got a little older for me to plug into the farm. Again, you use your skill sets.

I'm passionate about, uh, educating the next. Anyone about agriculture. Uh, that was kind of where it started. And we had another couple that was our mentor in farming really suggest the corn maze. They had done it for 20 years in a nearby town and she said this would just be right up your alley. Uh, so we started it for a day.

We just absolutely loved it. It had a great turnout. And again, like all things, it's just amazing what blessings that's even brought us. And I get to hire a bunch of teenagers. I, I get to write scripture all over the maze and, and we always pick a theme that's kind of oriented to where God fits into all of it.

And it, it's just been a wonderful blessing for me to enjoy and then, uh, to touch a lot of people. In fact, we've had schools, we Noah's Ark one year, and we've had schools teachers call fellow Christians and they say, you know, I'd really like to come to your maze, but the board at this school is not in favor of a biblical theme, so I need you to write this or, you know, change this.

So it, it, it appears, you know, that it's just a pumpkin festival and we're looking at a corn maze. And so just even being aware of those challenges out there, but at the same time, not hiding behind it. Right. We have scripture right when you walk in the door and, it's very present. We've never had a single complaint.

In fact, we usually get praises from people that appreciate a family friendly environment. And it's also allows our, I bring up our teenagers because that was a blessing that I did not anticipate. For myself, one, I've had just a blast with teenagers for six weeks, not yet. And it's also gives them a, a chance to feel a little responsible.

They get paid for it, and they take a lot of pride in the maze and, and keeping kids and other people from tearing it down or behaving and things like that. But it, it, it's allowed us also to witness, uh, we pray, you know, at our staff meetings to them. Uh, a lot of them come from families that are not going to church, and it just kind of, I think, opens their eyes that, huh, this is a little different than, than the subway shop down the road, you know, or the gas station that I might go work at as well during the year.

And that also speaks to, Rob mentioned employees. Colossians four one Masters. Give your bond servants what is just and fair knowing that you also have a master in heaven. Rob and I had a chance to really dissect this just yesterday, and it, I think the word humble comes to mind as we realized when we started managing people, we, we weren't humble and we weren't remembering our father in heaven as our master.

But that's something in the last few years that we are doing better at and, and realizing that, we're doing, this is all for him. Every last piece of it. Uh, we have an older gentleman feeding cows, has a, a bunch of health issues. And he just said to me the other day, you know, I heard on the radio that you can, they're talking about taking a pill to end your life when you're in pain and you're at the end of your life.

And he said, you just shut your eyes and get rid of it all. And it started this conversation of like, well, Ralph, like, is that really what you want? Is that really what God's design is for you? What if you get better? And I just realized my purpose for that moment was to just be there to cast a doubt in that, because that's something he thinks about.

Mm-hmm. Because of his ongoing health issues. You know? Um, or we have a bunch of teenagers that work at the maze for us that have never, one one of them said, I've never prayed before a job or gone to a staff meeting where we pray. I mean, he was just amazed by that. He works at a local gas station and just exposing them to a world that is different.

And, and of course the word, we have scripture, you know, throughout the events. We do a live nativity in December, again, which is full of community people and many of which have. Not, they're not attending a local church. And then, and they volunteer themselves to participate. So we know God's at work.

Yeah. Particularly the years that I'm thinking, oh, I don't know if I wanna do this again. December is such a busy month. Sure. You know, I have all my things that I wanna do, and then I'm just always reminded when I get that call from the neighbor boy who's never been to church and he wants to set up the sound system and he wants to play the guitar.

And it's like, wow, God's god's really working in all of this. And I'm, I'm just the instrument for it 

TJ: now. This is a huge undertaking. I just wanna make sure the listeners have some scope of this. So when you say corn maze, you're not just mowing a path through your cornfield. You, you guys plan this big time?

Yes. I've seen the aerial view and it's like, it's actual shapes of things. And can you tell us, tell us a little bit about the corn maze. 

Rob: Well, yeah, just for, like you said this, the scope of it, like the, the planning starts now. Mm-hmm. Like, because we're designing next year's maze, even though it's not gonna be open until September here in the February, March, April timeframes is when we have to have it planned out.

Because the way that we do the maze is we program it into our planting tractor so that when we're planting the field with the seeds, it's actually skipping seeds where all the pathways should be. So that has to be. Set up ahead of time here, you know, by before may kind of thing. 

TJ: That amazes me. What was it this last year?

Rob: This past year, the theme was trains. We had a westward expansion type train theme. Very heavily train oriented.

TJ: And what was the shape of the, the path? 

Rob: So it was all sorts of things. It's about, if I remember right, seven and a seven and a half acres worth. That's huge. And so there was a big engine train design as the centerpiece of it, and then a huge American flag, like off to the top and the date and some different things in there like that.

TJ: Yeah, it's amazing. So what I love about it is you're investing in your community through the farm. So it's not just how can I turn a profit and get the most rows of corn in this thing, but how can I use this to invest in my community for the sake of God's glory? 

Rob: Yeah. And there's so many folks that, that say that to us, that thank us for.

Having this be a part of our community, being an outreach to folks in the community. 

TJ: Mm-hmm. 

Amanda: Similar to that at the church. I don't know how many people I run into the grocery store and they say, thank you for doing this. It's 10, 15 minutes away. I don't have to drive an hour and a half. You know, to just find something fun in the fall to go do you know?

TJ: Yeah, that's right. So yeah, as Christians taking the things that you have using them to bless your community, now somebody might be listening and go, well, I don't have a planter that can skip seeds or whatever. I don't even have a farm. How would you encourage people to think about ways that they can shift, like you did from how do I maximize profit to, how do I maximize the kingdom investment in this area?

How can people think that way? 

Rob: So for me, I would say it starts on a very basic principle or level for me. When I got honest with myself and realized like every, so you talked about how we came from, you know, we, we had some experiences, we had some education. It came back and, uh, interacted with a lot of people that didn't.

Right? It was Amanda alluded to before, a couple that wasn't able to graduate high school. But when you're interact with those people on a daily basis, when you realize that no matter how old or young, no matter how rich or poor, or how educated or uneducated every individual is, has a spirit and, and as a human being and has a purpose by God, was designed by Christ for his purpose.

Here, we don't know what that is in each individual person, but when you realize that and you start treating people with that in mind, it changes your interactions with every person that you interact with. And that's on the most basic level how I could say it. 

TJ: Yeah, I love that. That's huge.

We talk a lot on this podcast about having a love for God and a love for others. And the love for God has to be the thing that feeds the other. And that's what Christ has done for us. The truth is, we deserve nothing. Jesus has blessed us way beyond what we could ever imagine, and he is done it so that we can be a blessing to the people around us, that we can point them to him.

And you guys are a really good example of that. I'm not trying to flatter you, but I'm just really encouraged by the way you've done it. I hope that our listeners will go back and think about the things that the Lord has entrusted to them. So again, you may not have a farm that you're able to steward or the ability to have people onto your property or whatever.

But how can you make the investment in the relationships you have with the people around you to show Christ in whatever it is that he's given you? That's, that's significant. Okay. We've been talking for a long time. I kept you a little longer on this episode than I thought I would, but this is so good and I feel like we could go a whole nother hour.

But is there anything that you guys wanted to share that you didn't get a chance to share? Because I didn't ask the right question? 

Amanda: I would just say to that last question, whether you're an auto mechanic shop or a hair salon in a rural community. Maybe you have an employee, maybe you don't. find as a Christian, I'm often nervous about sharing the word of God.

I have this like vision in my mind, and I get scared of it, thinking, oh, where do I start? How do, how do I talk? And I'm realizing now as I'm older, that I am, it's about demonstrating Christ through my actions. My care for that individual. Having those little conversations and always pointing them to God.

And it might take a lifetime, you know, it, it doesn't, uh, I've also learned God's timing is a lot longer than ours, but, uh, don't ever underestimate your, the reason why that person is in your mission path. Mm-hmm. And it might just be one employee, or it might be a woman that comes to get her hair done every four weeks or whatever it is.

That is incredibly, incredibly important. And God put them right there for you to show his light. 

TJ: That's right. And he is put you there at the same time, which is not a coincidence. So God has put you here at this time on purpose.

Like you didn't pick the time you were gonna live. God picked that. You didn't pick what kind of family you'd be born into. God chose that for you. And all kinds of circumstances where you did make choices are influenced by the way that God has created you. You just can't separate the two. And so you end up where you are in your remote community and a lot of people are listening, thinking, my remote community doesn't really matter where I live.

Isn't that important? I don't even have a post office in my town. Whatever. No, God puts you there and he is put other people around you to some extent so that together you can, so that you can have an opportunity to point them to Christ and that together the gospel can be made visible in your community.

And God wants that to happen everywhere. He wants the earth to be filled with the knowledge of the Lord, like the waters cover the sea. Totally saturated, and you listener play a really important role in making Christ known. So I hope that this interview is helpful for you to think about some ways that you can do that.

So last chance, guys, any final thoughts before we go? I have, I have two quick questions then to ask you. These are so important. Okay. And I'll have you go first, Amanda. Alright. First question, what is your favorite hymn or worship song?

Amanda: Hmm. Amazing Grace. 

TJ: All right. 

Amanda: And I know that might sound cliche, but uh, I love the sound of it. And then, uh, as far as that's what captured me in the beginning. And then once I understood where he was at when he wrote it. Mm-hmm. And again, God's intentionality with it, where he left the Bible there for him to find and, and just that complete, uh, John MacArthur says that when you become a saved man, as an adult, it's like you've been run over by a tractor and trailer.

Yeah. On a highway. Right. And I think of that in that song because that's exactly what happened to him as a, as the author. I, yeah. I think it's just number one. Yeah. It gives me a lot of awe in God when I hear it. 

TJ: It's classic. I love it. Mm-hmm. That's great. What about you? 

Rob: Yeah. I'm an old soul, I guess.

Kind of grew up in a church with hymn books. Yeah. And, um. One of the ones that came to I I, I love so many of them. It's hard to pick, but the old rugged cross, I think I'm gonna just throw that one out there. 

TJ: Yeah. 

Rob: On a hill far away. 

TJ: Yeah. That's great. Awesome. Okay, now this next one, we will all judge you based on your answer to this next question.

Theologically just super deep. All right, you ready? What's your favorite ice cream? So you wanna go first this time, Rob? 

Rob: Again, I'm old fashioned. I love vanilla ice cream. Okay. Maybe occasionally doctored up with a little bit of, you know, chocolate syrup or something. 

TJ: Okay. Just straight vanilla. Like vanilla or something.

Rob: I like vanilla bean. 

TJ: Okay. 

Rob: Yeah. Vanilla bean. That's 

TJ: good. All right. That's good. All right. What about you, Amanda? 

Amanda: Cookies and cream. 

TJ: Okay. 

Amanda: Because when I'm not eating that every night I eat Oreos and milk. 

TJ: There you go. Nice. That's awesome. Love it. Just so you know, the right answer was chocolate chip cookie dough, but you, you got close and you had vanilla be.

So I guess there's grace. But guys, thank you so much for being Thank you, TJ, on this episode. Really appreciate it. I'm sure this will be a blessing to our listeners. Can I just pray for you before we mm-hmm. Close? Lord, thank you for the millers and the way that they have. Been shaped by all of the experiences we talked about today, and ultimately brought to a place in your mercy where they could think about how to use all of their lives for your glory.

And they're doing it. And we're all imperfect people. I'm sure they can think of a million ways that they wish they were doing better, but their testimony is a good encouragement to me. And I pray that you would help us all to be able to think about how we can leverage our lives in every way to make you known, because it truly is all about you.

Thank you for this time, and please spread your church for your glory. In Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Well, I hope that was encouraging to you. I know it was really encouraging to me. If you think about it, pray for Rob and Amanda and their whole operation going on there at the farm and pray for people like them.

There are Christians in. All kinds of places that you've never heard of and never will who need the strength and wisdom to glorify God where they live because no one else is gonna come do it. And that's true for you as well. God has placed you there in your rural place, in your remote location so that you can show him glory.

How can the things you've seen through Rob and Amanda's life be applied in your world? You may not have the same kind of resources that they have, but you have the resources God has entrusted to you. What does it mean for you to sit down and think about and then to take action so that you can show God's glory in the middle of nowhere, just like he created you and placed you there to do.

Thanks for listening to this episode. If you'd like to learn more, head on over to brainerd institute.com. Lots of resources there for now, though. Why don't we get back to life? Back to rurality.