Episode 21: Inside NIAB – Shaping the Future of Independent Pharmacy

Join us for a special live episode of Independent Insights as we sit down with members of the National Independent Advisory Board (NIAB), at McKesson ideaShare, to explore their vision for the future of pharmacy. Hear firsthand what they’ve learned from McKesson ideaShare (MiS), what excites them most about the road ahead, and how they’re working to elevate the voice of independent pharmacy across the country.

Host
Suzanne Feeney, PharmD
Sr. Director, Pharmacy Solutions
McKesson / Health Mart

Guests
Shelby Knott, PharmD
Owner
Warren Pharmacy

Emmanuel Ayanjoke, PharmD
Owner
Altev Community Pharmacy

Ghada Abukuwaik, RPh
Owner
Curemed Pharmacy 

Resources
Tune into Episode 16: Episode 16: Creating Pharmacy’s Future
To listen to APhA President Randy McDonough and Chief Pharmacist Nancy Lyons as they discuss urgent changes and a bold vision for the future of independent pharmacy on this episode of Independent Insights. 

References
Listen to Episode 17: From Aisles to Action: Welcoming Legislators into Your Pharmacy.


The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the guest and do not necessarily represent the views or positions of Health Mart, McKesson or its affiliates or subsidiaries ("McKesson”). The information provided herein is for informational purposes only and does not constitute the rendering of clinical, legal or other professional advice by McKesson.

Transcript

Suzanne: [00:00:00] Welcome to Independent Insights, a Health Mart podcast, which is focused on independent pharmacy. I'm Suzanne Feeney and I'm a pharmacist on the Health Mart McKesson team, the Senior Director of Health Mart Pharmacy Solutions. And one of the key themes of this podcast, always I say it in every episode, is idea sharing in hearing from the best and brightest out there and sharing our stories. So it's such a great fit to be here this year at ideaShare live in 2025 Nashville.

And in this episode, I'm actually sitting down with three of our McKesson National Independent Advisory Board members, which many of you may not know that we have this, and so that's part of the intent today is really to get you the opportunity to understand their perspectives and how they help to shape practice.

So listeners, you will hear firsthand what they've learned from ideaShare what excites them the most about the road ahead and how they're really working to elevate the voice of independent pharmacy across the country, which is why I'm sure that all three of you are here today and participating in this ongoing.

Are you looking for ideas to grow independent pharmacy and make a greater impact in your [00:01:00] community? Look no further. Welcome to Independent Insights, the podcast brought to you by Health Mart. Episodes delve into a wide range of topics to provide you with the practical strategies, expert insights, and inspiring stories to help you and your pharmacy excel.

The information provided is intended for informational purposes only and does not constitute clinical, legal, or any other type of professional advice from Health Mart, McKesson, or its affiliates and subsidiaries (“McKesson”). You acknowledge and agree that McKesson will have no liability with respect to, or relating to any information presented in this podcast. Pharmacies are encouraged to consult with their legal and business advisors before making any decisions that could affect their business operations. 

Pharmacists are expected to exercise reasonable care as dictated by legal and professional standards and are ultimately responsible for decisions related to patient care and medication management. [00:02:00] It is your responsibility to review and comply with all applicable state and federal laws, rules, and regulations governing your business operations. This includes laws applicable to businesses in general, those pertinent to employers, and those specifically regulating the practice of pharmacy.​

Suzanne: So just a little bit of background for our listeners. McKesson National Independent Advisory Board, or what we call as NIAB, is really an advisory group that's composed of independent pharmacy owners across the country who are thought leaders. And it's really the mission to provide frontline insights their experience and feedback that helps shape the solutions that are out there available to all of you. And truly the success of independent pharmacies. So the voice of one all comes together and is just so impactful.

So first up with that, I would like to do just a quick round of introductions. I know I went first and I'll just go down the line. And Shelby, I'll start with you. Just tell us a little bit about yourself, your pharmacy so our [00:03:00] listeners can get to know you.

Shelby: Fantastic. Thank you Suzanne for having us. I really appreciate it. So my name is Shelby Ott. My husband and I took over the Warren Pharmacy located in Warren, Minnesota. Just so I can paint a picture of where we're at, we're located in rural northwestern Minnesota, so up by the North Dakota- Canadian border.

We are 30 miles away from another pharmacy, so obviously having patients coming from various surrounding areas that we provide services to. The pharmacy actually has been there since 1971. It's all been independent pharmacy owners since then.

So I'm the third to take over the store and if you guys ever come visit us, we've got pictures up of all the previous owners too, which is pretty cool. It's very family oriented. We offer vaccinations. We have a long-term care. We have a hospital in town. So even though we're very small, we still provide all those services to our patients.

Suzanne: Amazing. And Shelby, I don't think you said this, but you've been an owner for a short amount of time. 

Shelby: Yes. So two and a half years is all. And talk about a whirlwind of change coming [00:04:00] in right now, especially during one of the hardest times of pharmacy.

Suzanne: Absolutely. And so being able to shine through and be there for your community. Appreciate you. Awesome. Thank you. Manny, you are next, so we'll move to you for introductions. 

Manny: Yeah, absolutely. My name is Emmanuel, go by Manny for short. I'm the owner and operator of Altev Community Pharmacy. We're based in Cincinnati, Ohio, in Avondale, and Avondale was a very interesting location 'cause it's a, it's an urban neighborhood and yet the Health Equities Act secure has been very prominent.

And before our opening, I believe Avondale was a pharmacy desert for about five years. So you think about the classic lack of access to care. Patients are often having to take a bus just to go to their pharmacy that's closest to them. And a bunch of other things that goes with that. So we're really in a place of impact in Avondale.

Suzanne: Absolutely. And will you tell us a little bit about how you came up with the name of your pharmacy? 

Manny: Yeah, sure. So Altev, I'm originally from Nigeria and [00:05:00] just growing up everything was all about family. So my siblings and I actually came up with the name a while back. Because we had the plan to do things together. So it's actually our last name and our first initial and order of how we're born. And I love when all the pharmacists name their pharmacy after them. But I find it important to honor family and keep that in mind throughout the journey of the company.

So that's why I use that name. 

Suzanne: Absolutely. I love it. Thanks so much for sharing. And Ghada, you're up next. 

Ghada: Yes. My name is Ghada Abukuwaik and I've been a pharmacist for almost 27 years. Currently serve as the CEO of multiple independent pharmacies in New Jersey. We launched our first pharmacy back in 2015 in New Jersey, and we built it on the belief that diversity in services leads to stronger patient care.

From retail to specialty, from immunizations to nutrition and compliance package, we strive to meet [00:06:00] patients where they are. I'm here today, not just to represent my business, but to stand with all my colleagues for every independent pharmacy in this hard time of the industry of the pharmacy, and being a pharmacy owner and to represent the team who all feel the pressure. We all work hard every day, and we all believe in the future of the pharmacy. So independence is not just a business model, it's a front line for personalized community based care. That's why I joined the NIAB, the advisory group with McKesson to ensure that our voice heard and to help our colleagues not only to survive, but to thrive.

Suzanne: Absolutely. I love it. I love the diversity, the representing your community and the community-based services. So thank you for what you do to support your communities in New Jersey. Go ahead maybe share some insights and perspectives about what you're learning this week and about how you helped to advise our advisory board.

Shelby, I'll start [00:07:00] out with you and maybe just share what are some of the insights and takeaways that you've had this year at ideaShare? I know networking is always amazing and I look forward every year to getting to meet with you and see you, but there's been a lot of key takeaways. Maybe share some things that have stood out for you.

Shelby: So Suzanne, last year actually was my first ideaShare. 

Suzanne: A little overwhelming. 

Shelby: Extremely overwhelming, yes. But I feel between last year and this year, the networking, like you said, that you bring back. So just some examples of stuff that I was able to take back. We now offer long-term care at home. We are doing long-term care packaging. I've renegotiated a 340-B contract with our hospital after talking to other various pharmacists here. Just like amazing, huge things. And as we talk about the changes that pharmacies facing, diversifying services and offering those things were like instrumental in making sure that we remain here.

So those are just a couple of the things, but just a ton. 

Suzanne: Yeah, I know. I love the connections. And seeing other independent owners talking with each other, getting ideas hearing how it works in their [00:08:00] pharmacies and then going and being able to take it back. Any insights, Manny, that you have from this year?

Manny: Yeah, there's always so much to learn at ideaShare and so many different ideas as the name says. I think for me, the biggest thing is, our goal at Altev Pharmacy is care beyond prescriptions, and that means a lot of things, but it means that we're doing more than just given prescriptions.

And with that, it means that we not only do the part very well, but free up our time to do the other things. And one of the most intriguing thing I've ever learned about is the role that AI can play in getting things off our plate. Think about calls think about things like data entry and how AI is now going to be able to do a lot of those things.

For a pharmacy like ours that really want to lean into that model of care beyond prescriptions and start to do key things like medication education, doing MTMs and all these critical services that actually move the needle in our patient's health. It's really mind blowing the things that are coming ahead. [00:09:00] So learning a lot about that. 

Suzanne: Yeah. I know we were talking about the fact that you have a staff of one really, and so leveraging automation and AI can free you up even in that environment, which a lot of our listeners are a smaller staff, right? So leveraging those tools and resources to give you more time on patient care and working with prescribers.

That's great to hear. I'm glad you had that.

You're listening to Independent Insights, a McKesson Health Mart podcast with host Suzanne Feeney, Senior Director Pharmacy Solutions at McKesson Health Mart. And guests, Shelby Knott, owner of Warren Pharmacy, Emannuel Ayanjoke, owner of Altev Community Pharmacy, and Ghada Abukuwaik, owner of Curemed Pharmacy. 

Let's continue. 

Suzanne: Ghada. Anything you wanted to share? 

Ghada: There are so many things that actually we get from ideaShare. Meeting old friends and see what they are doing and networking with our friends and colleagues and the [00:10:00] ideas. Honestly, there are so many, tremendous ideas in ideaShare.

But this time I found that the collaboration, sharing the resources, and ideas with our pharmacy, with other pharmacists through correlation of the local networks. That was really big for me. Especially with the hard time nowadays with the pharmacy industry. The the technology adoption that Emmanuel said the automation and how to use this data in our workflow , the advocacy, that was really big.

Suzanne: Yeah. We did a podcast earlier this week where we talked to a pharmacy technician from McNabb Pharmacy about hosting legislator visits in the pharmacy. And I think that really resonates because inviting them into your every day and letting them see what happens in these community-based settings is so important. So I applaud you for taking that action item back. That's really great. Shelby I know we were talking a little bit before the show got recorded, and I'm hoping you can share with our listeners about maybe some of the opportunities that you see on the horizon. We know that this is [00:11:00] unprecedented times in pharmacy. I really am passionate about independent and knowing that you have the ability to be so nimble. So what are some opportunities that you see?

Shelby: Just attending some of the events here, so Randy, for example when he was talking and he's advocating about some of the changes that are gonna be happening and are we gonna be ready for the changes when that time comes? Are we gonna be ready for medical billing when that time comes? So a lot of the things that we can be doing right now that are gonna be instrumental later on when this does actually happen 

Suzanne: Yeah.

Shelby: Is gonna be a big thing.

Suzanne: Yeah, and as pharmacists step into that medical billing space, we're all probably looking at Raj out there, another NIAB member who's got that figured out. How are we ready to do that and so always practicing to that top of the license. And Randy McDonough, who's our APhA president and has a few Health Mart pharmacies, he and I were sitting down this week talking a lot about that too, when we are verifying prescriptions, are we doing the drug therapy reviews? Of course we're checking for interactions and dosing, but are we making sure that the drugs are working? Are we having those [00:12:00] conversations with patients, and then documenting that, because that's really the key to care. I think that's a great theme and a lot more to come, I know from our education team on that throughout the year, so I definitely see that as an opportunity as well. Manny, I wanted to float a different question to you.

As a member of the NIAB board, one of the things I wanted to showcase was how you work in partnership to help elevate the voice of independent pharmacy. And, you've been part of our recent initiative and collaboration and partnership with McKesson Health Mart, with your pharmacy, and thought you could walk our listeners through what that looks like.

Manny: Yeah, absolutely. And really got a jumpstart with the help of McKesson wanting to really solve the issues that many communities now face with a lot of closures that we've had, which is pharmacy deserts. So I was very fortunate to be that pharmacy owner taps to lead one of the initial initiatives in Cincinnati, Ohio, where let's find a place that needs a pharmacy find a pharmacist that's passionate about taking care of their community, put them there. That's [00:13:00] really the crux of how we came to be. And along the line, it's been just an amazing level of collaboration where the goal is more than just having another, McKesson customer.

But really a pharmacy that can actually move the needle on health. And that's all I'm about. It's just really been amazing for me as a new pharmacy owner to have all these resources and so many people across McKesson, across Health Mart that are really just, amazing in terms of being resources to be able to tap on them and say, hey I need to figure out how to do this, and, we need this in getting the service up and running. And without a doubt you see so many people across McKesson pulling together resources to make sure that we're able to do what the plan is, which is move the needle in our patient's health. And I'm so excited for what's to come.

Suzanne: I'm excited too. Pharmacy deserts, I think even in light of what's happening have always been something that's been in existence in both urban and rural areas. And I've always been passionate, even from pharmacy school, about how do we bring services to communities and [00:14:00] community-based care and providing that service with people who are embedded and understand the community.

So I'm really thankful that you're able to continue to do that and provide those services. And how has it been working with the prescribers? I'm going a little off script here, but I think you got it. Working with the prescribers in your community and what are you seeing as far as patient outcomes who maybe didn't go to the pharmacy before. Some of the places where I worked in Chicago, people would've to take multiple methods of transportation to get there. So when something happened and disrupted their day, it wasn't possible. And then you see all the outcomes that happen with adherence. Just curious what you're seeing. I know you haven't been there long, but I'm sure there are clinical outcomes. 

Manny: Yeah, so it's been amazing the level of things that we are working on right now, and I'll tell you this, we are part of C-P-E-S-N, which is a network of enhanced pharmacies. And we meet weekly with multiple stakeholders from University of Cincinnati Medical Center.

And our goal is to figure out how we as pharmacies can play a huge part in specifically at this point, hypertension. We hear a [00:15:00] lot about patients get prescribed medications and only 50% of people actually pick up their medicines.

Suzanne: Or they pick it up and they take it for a month and they're like, okay I'm better now.

Manny: Exactly. 

Suzanne: Not realizing it's chronic. 

Manny: So we are constantly evolving and changing what we are doing, and it's a lot of, right now it's very small scale tests that we're running, where the patient comes to pick up their meds, they get to sit with the pharmacist. We teach them how to use a blood pressure meter, give them a blood pressure cuff as part of the program and monitor them and make sure they're engaged. And that's the key part. 

Suzanne: It is. 

Manny: Engage in patients in their healthcare. And such that it's not an afterthought, it's a forethought for them. 

Suzanne: The cornerstone of care is having them take active participation and motivating them to do that. 

Manny: Exactly. So yeah that's what we do right now. And while we haven't done it in a larger scale, we're building a very core foundation to do that. And there's so much more to come. 

Suzanne: We'll have to get you back next year and see how things have progressed. I love that. Awesome. Ghada, I know prior to the show we were talking [00:16:00] quite a bit about just different collaborations that you have and you shared a lot of really inspiring success stories, and I'm hoping maybe you could also share with our listeners.

Ghada: Sure. First, I would like to mention that as a member in the advisory committee for the independent pharmacies, we really take our role seriously as the voice of thousands. Pharmacists will face the difficulties in every day. And we use this platform to communicate real challenges, declining reimbursement, cash flow, staffing shortage, and growing operation pressure. These are not just business issues. They are also affect the patient care and the community health. So as an NIAB board member, we believe that McKesson as a major wholesale partner has a unique position to be part of the solution.

So as board members, we are very transparent with McKesson about all our [00:17:00] challenges.

Suzanne: Which is so appreciated. I think transparency and sharing not just the success, but the struggles is really important and why we have you here. So I don't wanna interrupt you, but I just wanted to call attention and note that is much appreciated.

Ghada: And that's what I would like to mention to my colleagues, that we are very transparent in our meetings about all our challenges that we see in the independent pharmacies. So just would like to mention that we are here to make sure to support our colleagues and we are offering all our collaboration together to find innovative ways with McKesson to support independent pharmacies.

You mentioned about what kind of different collaboration that we have. There are so many nowadays. We believe that there are thousands of doors are open for independent pharmacies. So right now, the long-term collaboration is something that is available and I wish that all my colleagues, independent pharmacists, as Shelby mentioned at the beginning that she started this last year, which is really [00:18:00] amazing.

This is something, the way to go right now with all other kind of the nutrition, the cash flow, that there's, we can do that as well at the pharmacy. So we believe in you. We are here for you. We, all together, collaborate to make sure that the pharmacy is not gonna just survive, but we are gonna thrive in this kind of hard industry. 

Shelby: I think that's just it. We all have our own unique practices, but we're all in this together.

Suzanne: Yeah. I think it is what makes ideaShare so great and participation in the board and just the collaboration amongst Health Mart pharmacies in the independent space to have your unique setting to be embedded in your communities, but be able to share and learn from each other. And so I know that information that you share up and sharing your voices, and sometimes I'm sure those aren't easy conversations, but you're all entrusted to do that on behalf of the profession, so thank you for that. This has been a really great time today, and as we bring this episode to a close, I'm personally struck by the passion and the purpose that all of you bring to the table, [00:19:00] so thank you so much. And there's just so much possibility that really radiates from all of you and hopefully to all of the independent owners out there who are doing the hard work every day to stay relevant and close to their communities. So thank you so much.

So with that, to every listener out there whether you're filling prescriptions, mentoring a new technician, or really dreaming up your next big idea, like the three of these here have know that your work matters and that your voice matters and the future is bright. So let's keep sharing ideas, let's keep lifting each other up and creating a future where independent pharmacy thrives to quote your words there. Not just as a business, but force of good in every community, which I know you all do every day.

So thank you so much for joining us on Independent Insights. I'm Suzanne Feeney, Senior Director of Health Mart Pharmacy Solutions. And until next time, stay inspired, stay connected, and keep on believing in the power of pharmacy.

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