Episode 24: Automation That Works: How Independent Pharmacies Decide, Implement, and Thrive

Join host Dr. Britney Woods, PharmD, Sr. Manager of Community Pharmacy at McKesson Health Mart, for a compelling conversation about the power of automation in independent pharmacies. This episode features special guests Faisal Adam, Pharmacist at Mark’s Pharmacy, and Alisha Nanji, Pharmacy Manager with McKesson Canada, who share their firsthand experiences on how thoughtfully implemented automation can help transform daily operations, ease the workload for pharmacy teams, and elevate patient care. Listen in as they explore practical strategies for unlocking real capacity and efficiency in the pharmacy setting and discover how embracing technology can help make a meaningful difference for both your staff and patients.

Host
Britney Woods, PharmD
Sr. Manager, Community Pharmacy
McKesson / Health Mart

Guests
Faisal Adam, PharmD
Pharmacist
Mark's Pharmacy

Alisha Nanji, HBSc, BSc Phm, RPh, (ON/NB)
Pharmacy Manager
McKesson Canada

Resources
You can learn more about McKesson Pharmacy Automation Services here: https://www.mckesson.com/automation/ 

References
Health Mart Pharmacies can access Health Mart University (HMU) for:

• Helpful CE courses and more on inventory management and workflow
• Health Mart pharmacists to claim their CE credit for weekly Gamechanger episodes  

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the guest and do not necessarily represent the views or positions of Health Mart, McKesson or its affiliates or subsidiaries ("McKesson”). The information provided herein is for informational purposes only and does not constitute the rendering of clinical, legal or other professional advice by McKesson.

Transcript

Independent Insights Ep 24

Britney: [00:00:00] Welcome back to Independent Insights, the podcast where we explore the ideas, experiences, and practical strategies shaping the future of independent pharmacy. I'm your host, Dr. Britney Woods, senior manager of Community Pharmacy on the Health Mart McKesson team. Today we're diving into a topic that comes up often but isn't always fully understood, pharmacy automation.

Joining me today are two guests who bring complimentary perspectives to this conversation. First, we have Dr. Faisal Adam, registered pharmacist at Mark's pharmacy who will share a behind the counter view of how automation shows up in day-to-day pharmacy workflow and what it has meant for the team and patient care.

Are you looking for ideas to grow independent pharmacy and make a greater impact in your community? Look no further. Welcome to Independent Insights, the podcast brought to you by Health Mart. Episodes delve into a wide range of topics to provide you with the practical strategies, expert insights, [00:01:00] and inspiring stories to help you and your pharmacy excel.

The information provided is intended for informational purposes only and does not constitute clinical, legal, or any other type of professional advice from Health Mart, McKesson, or its affiliates and subsidiaries (“McKesson”). You acknowledge and agree that McKesson will have no liability with respect to, or relating to any information presented in this podcast. Pharmacies are encouraged to consult with their legal and business advisors before making any decisions that could affect their business operations. 

Pharmacists are expected to exercise reasonable care as dictated by legal and professional standards and are ultimately responsible for decisions related to patient care and medication management. It is your responsibility to review and comply with all applicable state and federal laws, rules, and regulations governing your business operations. This includes laws [00:02:00] applicable to businesses in general, those pertinent to employers, and those specifically regulating the practice of pharmacy.​​

This podcast mentions McKesson products or services, including names of products. Such references are for informational and contextual purposes only, and does not constitute endorsement or promotion of those products.

Britney: Today on Independent Insights, we talk to Dr. Faisal Adam about stepping into the future of pharmacy practice and how automation has impacted his practice.

Welcome Dr. Adam. 

Faisal: Thank you. Thank you for having me. 

Britney: We're so excited to hear from you today. As we think about the pharmacies of the future, we have to be very mindful of how we step into the future. And from my perspective, automation is just one of those pieces. But before we get started, before we get to talking about automation, [00:03:00] can you tell us a little bit about your pharmacy or pharmacies and what day-to-day life looked like before you started exploring automation. 

Faisal: Yeah. Thank you. And again, thank you for having me on the podcast. Life before automation. So I just got outta school about two, three years ago and it was a family owned business that's actually my father's. So he wanted us to go to pharmacy school. And one of the things that when we were coming along school is with AI and automation, there's a big avenue. Before pharmacy, we were just like doing it all manually. We had automated counters that would take pictures for us, but we still had to have employees to run them. We were doing anywhere from 700 to a thousand scripts a day. 

Britney: Wow. Wow. 

Faisal: Yeah. And that's just that one location. And then we have two other locations too now.

Britney: Amazing. [00:04:00] 

Faisal: So it was for sure a challenge for us as pharmacists to make sure that we're providing the level of service that we're needing to have but also making sure that we're not falling into that typical standard of an all day thing to fill a prescription.

When I came in I wanted to focus more on the efficiency side of things. Another thing that we ran into was like, if employees called out that we depended on or were sick or had family emergencies, that caused a big strain on us because now the other employees have to account for double the work.

It was for sure a strain. But luckily we were in a good position and, we had familiar people that we could go to get advice. And we saw what automation did for them and so we wanted to explore that realm and it's worked out brilliantly.

Britney: Before we go to the next question, I really wanna give you an opportunity to let us know the names of your pharmacies and where they're located. [00:05:00] 

Faisal: Yeah. So we have three locations and we serve Western North Carolina. 

Britney: Okay.

Faisal: Our main location is Silva, North Carolina. 

Britney: Okay. 

Faisal: And it's close to Western Carolina University.

The other is Waynesville, North Carolina which is about 15 minutes. Closer to Asheville. Then the other location, we just opened it up about a year and a half ago, and that's in Bryson City. And so I think our mission is to really help the underserved community. 

Britney: Yeah. 

Faisal: Allowing people to have access to care is our biggest thing.

Britney: Exactly. I noticed as patients are losing access to primary care providers clinics are closing, a lot of patients are relying on the care they receive in their pharmacies for their first stop or their first point of contact. So it is so amazing that your family has three locations to fill in that gap for patients. That's amazing.

So as we get back into your [00:06:00] decision about automation, what were the specific pain points or pressures that first made you think about automation or was there a moment when you said something has to change and automation became the answer? 

Faisal: Yeah, I remember vividly the day it was our first day that we did over a thousand scripts.

Britney: Oh my. 

Faisal: And we were just backed up all day. And I remember not getting caught up until 7:00, 7:30. And we close at seven, so we wanted to make sure that we got everything out for the next day. We were spending overtime to get everything out. And so that was the day that we realized that we had to do something as far as with automation.

Britney: It's really interesting that, there are these pivotal days in practice where your mindset changes about something. So I'm not surprised that you remember the exact day and the moment when [00:07:00] you realized something had to change. When you first started exploring automation, what questions or concerns were at the top of mind for you as you thought about implementing?

Faisal: Yeah. So I think the biggest thing for me and as well as my dad was the durability. That's one of the biggest things because we knew that once it was implemented into the practice, it was gonna be something that we would have to follow up with 

Britney: Yeah. 

Faisal: On a daily basis. So we wanted to make sure that the automation that we decided to pick with was durable through thick and thin during our daily cycle. 

Britney: So as you begin to think about those things and what it would take to get automation into your practice, what ultimately really just tipped the scales and said, yes, this is it. Was it financial, operational, staffing related, or was it all of the [00:08:00] above? 

Faisal: It was more of a personal level. So we were comparing like two or three companies. Obviously McKesson was one of them. It ultimately had to deal with the level of service that we received in our onboarding.

And even after the fact, like whenever I have to call the service team or 

Britney: yeah.

Faisal: The technician, those relationships and, we are big into relationships as far as building that with patients and in general. So when we decided to go automation, we wanted to have that relationship with people that we knew to be accountable, and we knew that we felt comfortable with so that was our biggest thing when deciding. 

Britney: Awesome, as we talk about challenges with technology and AI, there are several pharmacists that are from a different era that have a really hard time conceptualizing how technology and AI looks in their practice.

Automation can feel like a big leap of faith. How did you [00:09:00] evaluate the risk and what helped you feel confident about moving forward? 

Faisal: It was against my dad's idea to go automation, and I think that was, that his mindset was like, no, we have to do it this way. But, with us coming in and stepping into the practice and filling both roles one as a provider and then the other role as a business management side of things we knew this wasn't sustainable for a long time. 

Britney: Yeah. 

Faisal: And I think the biggest thing for us is that we wanted to look after our employees that have been with us for many years.

Britney: Yeah. 

Faisal: And we knew that this couldn't keep up, so ultimately that's what and I think for us it was like that constant pressure for me and my brother, who is also a pharmacist as well. 

Britney: Okay. 

Faisal: And telling him, Hey we gotta keep growing. We gotta keep, doing all this stuff.

And so eventually he ended up seeing it for himself, and he is yeah we gotta go with this. 

Britney: That's an amazing story about getting him to come along. I feel sometimes I'm at the cusp of being very [00:10:00] set in some of the old traditional ways of pharmacy and understanding that I have to pivot as well.

Sometimes it's just those persistent reminders that. It's good to look at what we did in the past, but we have to be open-minded about where the future of pharmacy is going. I heard you mention the wellbeing of your employees, and I'm really glad you brought that up.

How did you really think about the impact of this decision on your team, not just your business, and how did you bring your team along with the decision to implement automation? 

Faisal: Yeah. And I'll be honest, I think with any type of change in the pharmacy, everyone kind of gets set in their ways. 

Britney: Yeah. 

Faisal: And change is a big thing, especially in pharmacies that have employees that have a daily routine. And so disrupting that to begin with is gonna be a for sure challenge. I recognize that and so trying to be more open with the employees. Hey, this [00:11:00] is gonna be a good thing, it can take so much, workload off of you and just the constant team huddles that kind of stuff helped with the process.

Now I will say that there was for sure adjustment to begin with because everyone's getting used to it. It's technology, people are getting used to the interface. 

Britney: Yeah. 

Faisal: Stuff of that nature. That for sure was a challenge, but I feel like after a month or two, everyone kind of starts knowing their roles then understands how helpful this can be from their standpoint. Because I'll be honest, we're still doing the same volume prior, but we're now getting caught up around one o'clock, two o'clock. We're getting caught up so much earlier and now it allow them to focus on other things. And that was my ultimate goal, was to allow my employees to focus on other tasks that they can be doing, that way they didn't feel behind as well.

Britney: Nice. And I like that you're giving the opportunity for your team to really practice at the top of their [00:12:00] license when you free them up to do task that only pharmacists can do, it's really empowering to your team because now they feel like, oh my gosh, instead of spending my whole day count pour, fill, fill, fill I have the opportunity to touch a patient in a real way.

Now that you've been through the process, what do you think owners misunderstand the most about automation? 

Faisal: That's a good question. So what owners misunderstand the most?

I feel like it would just be one of those things like, you just gotta take a leap of faith. 

Britney: Yeah. 

Faisal: I know it's a big financial commitment. 

Britney: Yes. 

Faisal: 'cause I'll be honest, it's not something to take lightly. It's something that you are gonna have to look into and make sure that the business can sustain something like this. But yeah, misunderstand I just feel like one of the things that was brought up was that the machine would take over other people's jobs. 

Britney: Ah, yeah.

Faisal: We haven't let go of [00:13:00] anybody. 

Britney: Awesome. 

Faisal: As far as reduced our staff by significant amounts or whatnot. We still have the same staff, but it just allows us to complete other tasks. I have my technicians doing outcomes, EQUIPP, there's so much stuff that we can be doing now. Compounding. We've gotten into compounding and all this different stuff that we can get into. So that automation has allowed us to free up time to allow them to do that kind of stuff. 

Britney: That is a really good piece of insight.

I think we're all a little concerned about the way technology can replace people and to hear that you are still very much committed to your team and the employees that you had before automation is, it's just a piece of insight that I think a lot of other owners that may be considering automation need to hear.

 And for any owner that's listening right now [00:14:00] who's overwhelmed, but curious, what advice would you give them? 

Faisal: I would say, just look at it. Do an analysis of your business how many prescriptions you're doing a day. 

Britney: Yeah. 

Faisal: To see that Hey, I do this much in prescriptions. Just look at your workflow too. Yeah. I honestly believe that like it's not worth the stress to be behind all day and ultimately, it just works you up all day. But if you go ahead and look at that and just look at your workflow and you can determine that hey, automation is gonna help me in this particular way. Whether that's the CountMate or the CountAssist. 

Britney: Yeah. 

Faisal: I think that's gonna be beneficial from the workflow side of things. And so we look at it both ways. And pharmacy's a very diverse field. And going back to what we started off with the primary care clinics shortening and closing down and whatnot, people genuinely [00:15:00] do come to the pharmacies first for care. 

Britney: Yeah. Yeah, they do. 

Faisal: We get phone calls before they even call their provider. With questions so we have to be there for them. Now automations can help with that to accommodate patient level care.

Britney: Yeah. 

Faisal: And then also another thing is test to treat now. 

Britney: Yeah. 

Faisal: That's something that's new. And I know this upcoming flu and cold season's gonna be interesting because with North Carolina, I believe that they've started that process of test to treat 

Britney: Yeah.

Faisal: With following guidelines. That will be interesting as well. So I think it's a multi-level thing with automation. It's gonna help you with the workflow, but then it's also gonna allow you to do other things. 

Britney: I appreciate this insight into how you got into automation, and I'd like to pivot on what it looks like day to day with the automation. So can you describe your role in the pharmacy and how involved you [00:16:00] are in the day-to-day workflow? 

Faisal: Yeah. So on a regular workday, I usually start at 8:30, but I get there about an hour before, so I get there around 7:30 and we'll have about two, three hundred prescriptions to process in the morning. So we'll go ahead and get that started 'cause I would like for when our first tech comes in to take that shift. I'd like for her to have everything out and ready so that way it's just a lot more efficient.

Britney: Yeah.

Faisal: Then throughout the day we do have a technician, just one technician, and we have two CountMates going. So it accommodates 392 of our drugs. It's really helped us out a lot and with 700 to 1,000 scripts we're easily doing, 70 to 80% of that through those machines. We don't do any brand name drugs, all generics. 

Britney: Okay. 

Faisal: So with that being said, we have one technician that will manage both robots and that's [00:17:00] solely her role. And then we also have a pharmacist there to assist with refilling or anything with the robots that might be going on.

Britney: Okay. 

Faisal: As well as checking them too. And then we have another section to the pharmacy that has all the other drugs that aren't in the robots. 

Britney: Okay. 

Faisal: If there's multiple drugs that, like some are in the robot, some are over there. They'll fill the robot medicines first and then they'll transfer 'em over to the other side to be completed. And we have around three or four technicians with two or three register girls to accommodate and assist with completing the prescriptions for patients. And genuinely our wait time if I was to process something, we can get something out in five minutes, five, six minutes.

Britney: That is amazing, and I know your patients appreciate that.

I hear all of the amazing things you're able to do with automation. Can you go back to pre automation [00:18:00] and tell me what your day to day looked like then? 

Faisal: Yeah. So again, we were doing the same volume. I would still go in around 7:30 and do it.

Britney: Yeah. 

Faisal: But I think the biggest difference is now you're going to have a big stack of 

Britney: Yeah. 

Faisal: Prescriptions that haven't been counted. And then you have your technicians that come in the morning, now they have to complete all that stat. 

Britney: Yeah. 

Faisal: And then you get new fills that come in. So it is just like a revolving, like you're gonna knock down a little bit, but then there's more that comes in. So it's a revolving door. I will say that also with automation. It has helped us out with our inventory in a sense, because that's one of the things that I didn't realize until after. And I think what I've noticed is that we'll be buying stuff in 1,000 counts or 500 counts, but when we fill the robot, it [00:19:00] gives us the opportunity to go ahead and reorder it for next time. Prior to automations, we would have a lot of people that either we had to order for the next day or we had to owe 'em, so I feel that those two big things I know can take an impact on patient care and customer service, and so that does impact the pharmacy, so I think with the automation, it has helped us make sure that we keep these drugs in stock, especially when we're going through these bottles, and it allows us to reorder 'em and move them a lot faster too.

Britney: I'm really glad that you brought that up because for me on the bench, what is disheartening is that first impression where you have a new patient come in for the first time, they're excited about trying your pharmacy. They present the prescription and you don't have it in stock, or you have to say, can I give you a partial or can you come back to tomorrow? Tying in that automation to helped to cover that issue as well is one of those pearls that people don't often think about when [00:20:00] they think about automation. Thinking back to immediately after post-implementation, when you first had your automation introduced in your pharmacy, what was your initial reaction about how this was gonna go, how long it was gonna take for everyone to get comfortable? Was it a process? 

Faisal: It was for sure a process. I won't lie. It was a process. I knew that looking down the road, it would be beneficial. Yeah. I just knew that the first two, three weeks of training was gonna be hard because, now going back to what I said, it takes people outta their flow and their routine. And so people have to get accustomed to, the new roles and stuff. So I think that was the biggest challenge. It for sure was a little stressful for the first two weeks. But I feel like the biggest thing that I appreciated looking back at it, was that there was an implementation team. We [00:21:00] had a technician named Anthony and he was there for, a month with us. Just with us. 

Britney: Wow, okay. 

Faisal: Yeah. So he was there with us for a month and just showing the girls, the process and, getting used to the interface and, there's a lot of things that might come up that you need to troubleshoot or stuff of that nature. And so walking through that process is gonna be big. And so I appreciate that level of care with the implementation. 

Britney: We talk a lot about how, automation affects workflow and the technology about it. But I'd like to talk a little bit about the human side of it or how it touches the people on your team.

How has automation changed the way your team works together? Have you noticed a shift in their, morale that when they're working together, how's that been? 

Faisal: Oh, for sure. It takes a big toll on their morale whenever they're not constantly behind. And I think that alone helps with the [00:22:00] teamwork and just communication with other team members and stuff of that nature. So I would for sure say that it has improved the morale just from the standpoint of not having to be behind and be stressed out all the whole time to keep up. I think that's the biggest thing is just trying to keep up was our biggest thing. And so that allows us to implement more of that patient touch to things, yeah. 

Britney: And, speaking of patients, they are very aware of things that are changing when they come into the pharmacy. So what does your patients think when they saw those big machines in the back? 

Faisal: Yeah, so we wanted to highlight our machines and so as soon as you walk in, you'll see two of them sitting right there. 

Britney: Yeah. 

Faisal: And so I think that alone tells people that we're here and we're evolving. So they're very impressed with how advanced pharmacies can get. 'cause I'll be honest, none of my patients [00:23:00] have ever seen anything like this before. 

Britney: Yeah. 

Faisal: They're like, what is this?

It's a talking piece with them and so that just feels a little bit more of that patient relationship with them. We didn't really put it behind, the doors. We wanted it front and center and everyone to see it, so that way it gave us a statement that we're here, we're evolving, and we're trying to be better.

Britney: I love how you highlighted the automation to let your patients know you're committed to them. Like you say, you're not going anywhere. This is your investment in your community. And so I really appreciate that you let your patients know we're here we're not leaving you.

We're changing with the times. We're committed to this community. Looking ahead, how do you see yourself continuing to use or expand automation in your pharmacies? 

Faisal: One of the biggest things that we are working on now is getting into the long-term care space. We've realized that with the age of the baby boomers, there is [00:24:00] demand for resident homes and we understand this. So we wanted to start implementing ways or start having these communications with our local retirement facilities skilled nursing facilities. 'Cause they're getting their prescriptions from Charlotte or, elsewhere. They're having to make that drive on a daily basis.

So if we can be there as a local provider for them we are literally a mile away from you and we can provide the same level of service. Now I know that there's automations that can handle, like the pill packaging and stuff. 

Britney: Yes. 

Faisal: And we've looked into that. But it's one of those things that I think moving forward that's an avenue that we would like to go into and with our current base, that has allowed us to explore that option.

Britney: I just love how automation, we approach it from one perspective thinking that workflow is the place that it's going to make the [00:25:00] most impact. And then once you implement you see, how it allows for the layering of services. So to me that is the most exciting thing that comes out of using the automation.

For pharmacists or technicians who are nervous about automation, what would you like to say to them? 

Faisal: I would say just don't be nervous about it. You have to move with the times. I think being able to situate yourself to accept it, that's the biggest thing is you're gonna have to accept it. Because that's where everything's moving. The sooner you embrace automation and just where everything's going, I think the better off you'll be. 

Britney: And just to close us out, if you could sum up in one sentence, what role automation plays in the future of independent pharmacy. What would you say?

Faisal: It's gonna play [00:26:00] a big role in providing high level patient care. 

Britney: Dr. Adam, it's been a pleasure speaking with you today. I am so impressed by your commitment to your community and your decision to jump into automation in a time where technology and all of these new AI tools can be very scary or feel very uncertain in the way that we practice pharmacy.

So I am just so happy to hear how you are committed to your communities and you're using automation to be able to touch them more. Thank you so much for being here. 

Faisal: Thank you for having me. I really do appreciate it.

You're listening to Independent Insights, a McKesson Health Mart podcast with host Britney Woods, Senior Manager of Community Pharmacy at McKesson Health Mart. And guest, Dr. Faisal Adam, Pharmacist at Mark's Pharmacy, and Alisha Nanji, Pharmacy [00:27:00] Manager at McKesson Canada. 

Let's continue. 

Britney: We're also joined by Alisha Nanji, registered pharmacist, a thought leader from McKesson Automation implementation team, who will help us understand the intent behind automation solutions, how they're designed with independent pharmacies in mind and how implementation is supported to drive meaningful impact. Together, we'll talk about what automation looks like in practice, how it can support pharmacy teams, and why automation is best viewed not as a technology purchase, but as a practice decision.

Let's get started.

 Welcome to Independent Insights. 

Alisha: Thanks Brittany for having me. I'm super excited to be here. 

Britney: We're so glad you're here. We have had a lot of thought provoking conversation about implementing automation in pharmacy practice, and what that means for our independent pharmacy owners.

Why don't you start by [00:28:00] telling us about your role at McKesson and how you were involved in the development or implementation of pharmacy automation? 

Alisha: Yeah, definitely. So I'm actually a pharmacist who manages McKesson Canada's direct- to -patient prescription business. And part of my role also involves supporting pharmacy automation initiatives.

So in this role I had the opportunity to help McKesson Automation launch their new vial filling robot count mate specifically in the United States. So in this position, I've been wearing two hats, the hats of a pharmacist the hats of a project manager, and I really feel I was able to bring a clinical lens into technology implementation.

Britney: That's so insightful to make sure that when McKesson is developing these ideas that they really get into the minds of those clinicians that'll be using this automation on a daily basis. So when McKesson invests in automation solutions for independent pharmacies, what [00:29:00] problem are you ultimately trying to solve?

Alisha: Yeah, so essentially I think when I think of this question, I'm thinking about the why behind automation. Why bring automation into pharmacies? And, I feel over a time period and over many years, the scope of a pharmacist has really changed. It's become a lot more complex, expectations of patients are higher than ever. And I feel like the work that's happening in dispensaries hasn't always kept at pace with the changes that are happening in the pharmacy world. As a pharmacist, I've lived that tension myself, trying to balance the accuracy the speed giving care that's meaningful to our patients and I really feel that automation matters so much because it helps close that gap. 

Britney: I feel like there's been this push that the things that we do as pharmacists are based on metrics. How many of these particular cases can [00:30:00] you close? And we're losing the touch points with patients. So how do you think about the automation from the perspective of an independent pharmacy? 

Alisha: Yeah, definitely. I feel when it comes to automation and solutions that automations can help with, it's not a one size fits all kind of picture. I feel like in terms of automation, smaller pharmacies might think about adding automation on a smaller scale, we can even think about having just like an automated pill counter where, you're able to scan a bottle, put the pills on a scale and count tablets.

That's automation already in a small impact, but it's still really helping a small pharmacy, take the manual aspect out of the pharmacy to be able to engage more with patients. And you look beyond these small community pharmacies and you can look at hospitals, long-term care, even central fill [00:31:00] pharmacies that have been using automation for years.

But the goal is always the same, which is, to reduce that manual repetitive work so pharmacists and pharmacy teams can spend more time with what matters, which is the patient.

Britney: Right? The patient is always first. And I feel, especially for independent pharmacies they can be reluctant to buy into automation because it feels like a technology gap that feels a little out of touch to the way that they approach patient care. But it's very important that, they understand that these initiatives are meant to provide more access to them with their patients. And we have to be mindful of how we promote automation to independent pharmacy owners and letting them know that this is meant to enhance your practice, not to turn it into something that it's not.

 From McKesson's perspective, what are the intended operational impacts of automation for pharmacies [00:32:00] that adopt these solutions? 

Alisha: Yeah, definitely. So I think more pharmacy automation is meant to support and really enhance the way that a pharmacy operates. Automation is not meant to replace people.

I think that's one of the misconceptions that a lot of, you know pharmacy owners or pharmacists or even pharmacy teams all in general feel that, we're getting this big machine in that's gonna take away from labor hours that are gonna need in the pharmacy. But even, thinking beyond that, we see how, the pharmacy world is right now in the shortage of staff in pharmacies. Ever since COVID times, so I really feel that, automation is not taking away from the people in the pharmacy. It's really, there to enhance the work and take away a lot of the manual aspects. A machine never gets tired. A machine will keep on counting those tablets for you. It'll keep on labeling those [00:33:00] vials, and burnout in pharmacy is real. Yeah. So if we could take away a lot of those manual aspects and allow that to be automated, that, that really adds, I think that really would add value to a pharmacy. 

Britney: So speaking to our pharmacist, what would you say is the main goal of automation? Would it be speed, would it be accuracy or staff support? Or all of the above.

Alisha: Yeah, honestly, I think really all of the above, right? I feel time is of essence 

Britney: Right. 

Alisha: In a pharmacy. As a pharmacist myself, I always find that there's never enough time to do everything that we need to get done in a pharmacy. Like I mentioned before, the whole manual aspect, right? The whole repetitiveness is given back in invaluable time to the pharmacy team where the pharmacy team is now able to, maybe do things that they weren't able to do before. Definitely, one of them is spending more time [00:34:00] counseling the patients and, going over their medical histories, doing medical reviews, but even doing things like maybe even now, being able to hold a clinic in your pharmacy or a food clinic- 

Britney: Absolutely. 

Alisha: So you have that time. 

Britney: You spoke to staffing challenges, which 

Alisha: Right. 

Britney: What pharmacists, hasn't experienced some level of staffing challenges. And I think in this post COVID era, we're seeing some challenges that we've never quite seen before. This comes up so often in pharmacy conversations. How does is automation intended to support those pharmacies dealing with workforce strain, I think if we dive into that, we can really bring the pieces together for some of our listeners 

Alisha: For sure.

Yeah. So let's, I guess go back to 2020 during the height of COVID. We all know how burnt out, pharmacists were, pharmacy teams were we were being pulled in every direction, whether it was, dispensing medications, counseling [00:35:00] really anxious patients, administering COVID vaccine, running testing. And this was all happening on the same shift. It's not like you had a minute to, even process what was happening. 

Britney: Right. 

Alisha: You were just being literally pulled in every direction and while the pandemic may feel like it's behind us, I don't think those pressures have completely gone away. And we still have those staffing challenges in pharmacies, especially in rural and under service communities. And that's why I feel now automation matters even more because to our pharmacy owners and to our pharmacists, it's gonna help take that pressure off.

Pharmacists can be more focused on clinical care, patient safety, and giving back to the patients who rely on us every single day. 

Britney: You know what's so interesting to me is, as just as people in 2026, there is this push to embrace AI and technology and we think [00:36:00] that we often think one way about embracing technology, but automation is an embrace of technology that can really impact practice.

As we think about implementation and crossing the hurdle to saying, yes let's start, let's embrace, let's change our mindset. Implementation can make, or break any kind of technology. How does McKesson think about supporting pharmacies through the transition and not just the install?

Alisha: Yeah, for sure. So I guess in terms of, an implementation mindset for myself helping with the process I put myself in the shoes of the customer that I'm helping. Really giving that pharmacist mindset because I really do understand how intense the day-to-day pressure is for most pharmacies.

And that perspective really hit home for me when I traveled to some pharmacies in the US, I visited some pharmacies in Dallas and in North Carolina [00:37:00] and really being on the ground and seeing the workflows firsthand really resonated with me and I saw those high pressure, volume situations, staffing challenges, constant interruptions. I saw how important it was to some of these pharmacies to really bring technology in. And that's where McKesson comes in with kind of a white glove approach to implementation. I think is so valuable. I feel like our goal is to make the process as easy and as realistic as possible for customers.

We work really closely with the pharmacy team to streamline the whole pre-work. Take the burden off the pharmacy as much as possible. And I guess from a practical example my pharmacy the team that I work with, we were able to develop a NDC database, which was basically used to help support implementation. So instead of a lot of the pre-work having to be done by the pharmacy team trying to calculate how many [00:38:00] tablets that should be inside an automation or how many tablets should be calculated for a vial this database really helped with that and removed a lot of the frustration that was going into that whole process. Yeah, I feel pretty much like at the end of the day, McKesson wants a pharmacy to be successful in the automation that they're providing and allow them to, face those real pressures and, be really hands-on for them to be able to, support their patients as best as they can.

Britney: I really appreciate that McKesson keeps customers in mind and doesn't just leave like, hey, we've done it, you're good. 

Alisha: Yeah. 

Britney: And that white glove service is so important, but I really would like you to discuss some realistic expectations that pharmacies should have during the early phase.

We often think that once we adopt some piece of technology, our lives are just going to change overnight. And I really like for us to set pharmacies [00:39:00] and pharmacy teams up for success. So tell us about some of those realistic expectations. 

Alisha: Yeah, I think, when you're bringing automation into a pharmacy there's challenges with everything, 

Britney: right? 

Alisha: Just as there's a challenge with, a human, there's challenges with the machine. But on McKesson's side, the support is readily available. So I feel, if a customer had an issue with one of their automations and they needed help, that guidance and help is readily available. The support team can be called, the issue is documented and tracked. And, the customer is helped right away. And if it's not something that could be done, remotely a field service technician is deployed to help that pharmacy right away. And as these challenges come up, the product owner team really takes a seat back to look at how we can, fix these [00:40:00] challenges that some of these customers are having and how we can enhance certain parts of these automations that we are supplying to these pharmacies to make them better. And I think one of the most important things that, McKesson does and the team definitely does, is after an automation is, put into a pharmacy after, I think probably about a month or so the experience team will give a call 

Britney: Oh, nice.

Alisha: To the customer. 

Britney: Very nice. 

Alisha: Yeah. Just to get their feedback to say, how has the machine been running? How can we improve this? It can help you and your team and your patients even more.

Britney: That's so valuable. As this feedback is collected from, real life implementations, what do you think independent pharmacies most often misunderstand about automation before they adopt it?

Alisha: That it's a one fix for, the issues that are happening in pharmacy. Like we discussed before, how a lot of pharmacies are already thinking that it's going to [00:41:00] replace a lot of the labor and the people in the pharmacies. So I think that's one of the major aspects and misconceptions, but also thinking that, adding automation is going to take away a lot of, the other burdens and problems that are being faced in pharmacy. I feel putting the automation in will give you the time to sort out those other burdens. So I think it's a win-win of ways. But yeah, I think though that's the main misconception that I think owners face when they're thinking about implementing technology, you have to weigh out the pros and cons, right? You are not gonna jump in and buy a huge machine from McKesson like 

Alisha: CountMate right off the whim. Unless the volume in your pharmacy can sustain it.

Britney: Yeah. 

Alisha: McKesson has so many other types of automations that, pharmacies can help support on a smaller scale. We did talk about just a pill dispensing unit. But also there's something called a CountAssist. So a [00:42:00] CountAssist come in towers of 18. And they're basically canisters where you can put in your fast moving drugs. And that gets integrated with the pharmacies dispensary system.

That's already, on, I guess you would say almost a medium to large scale type of automation that you can bring into a pharmacy without, going to something that's more robust, like your CountMate. I would encourage a pharmacy owner to think about, adding some form of automation 

Britney: Right. 

Alisha: Into their pharmacy. And it doesn't even have to be, geared towards pill counting. Any type of automation that can improve workflow, whether it's even, scanning prescriptions in, being a paperless pharmacy, all of these things would already add value. And then, as things kind of progress for a pharmacy owner, then they could think about bigger things that could really help their workflow.

Britney: As we talk about how to implement these [00:43:00] things and the mindsets that we have to overcome, sometimes when automation is considered from McKesson's side, how do you define success after a pharmacy implements automation? 

Alisha: I feel when a pharmacy is implementing automation it's not about the speed of what the automation is bringing to the pharmacy. I feel it's really about the impact that the pharmacy is feeling. When you're adding these automations in, it's definitely reducing errors. It's freeing up the pharmacist's time to be more clinical and helping patients get their medications on time and with confidence. If these things are all aligning, then I think the automation is definitely working. When you're seeing that both the patients and the pharmacy team feels a difference, then that's real success right there. 

Britney: That is an amazing statement. I think as we enter a time where pharmacists are really filling in the gap for clinical [00:44:00] care.

We have to really consider how do we continue to add services, add treatment lines. All of these things into that daily schedule while, managing it all, like you said the automation can just free you up to really tackle those other challenges you have but I think that automation is really that first step into the next step of really impacting your patients and making a difference in their lives and having this space and the time to do that. Looking ahead, how do you see pharmacy automation evolving, especially for independent pharmacies? 

Alisha: From my perspective, I feel automation isn't about technology for technology's sake. It's about patient safety, better conversations with patients, stronger pharmacy teams and I think you know, all of that ultimately allows for better outcomes. While we see that [00:45:00] automation in pharmacy is always evolving, like you mentioned, even with AI. AI still is in its early stages today. But it continues to mature and I see the same evolution happening, across healthcare with automation.

As pharmacists, we should really embrace the technology not fear it because like we know this is the way the world is moving. And when you can add these types of tools into your pharmacy we can deliver that higher quality of care to patients and at the end, that's really what matters.

Britney: Of all the impact spaces that you mentioned, what are you most excited about Automation freeing up pharmacists to be able to do?

Alisha: I feel for myself, I would love to be able to spend more time with my patients. As our role as pharmacists is becoming more clinical and, we have the ability to, do certain tests on patients or do certain assessments on [00:46:00] patients.

Yeah. When you're just busy counting, labeling, 

Britney: Yeah. 

Alisha: Dispensing, it really takes away from the quality of care that we can provide to patients in a world where, a lot of patients don't even have a regular family doctor. 

Britney: Absolutely. 

Alisha: We see them coming into their pharmacy, seeing a pharmacist as their first point 

Britney: Yes.

Alisha: Of healthcare. 

Britney: Absolutely. 

Alisha: If we can give that back to them, it's a win-win. 

Britney: I 100% agree, and I love your perspective on that. I think the thing that makes my heart pound as a pharmacist is those connections I have with my patients. Whether it's empowering them to advocate for themselves, if they have the space to have a primary provider, or if they're really looking to me to help drive their outcomes as a primary provider. Having that time to really spend with patients, that's really what makes my [00:47:00] heartbeat. 

As a closing perspective. If an independent pharmacy owner is listening and feeling hesitant but curious. What would you want them to understand about McKesson's intent behind automation? 

Alisha: Yeah, so I would say, do some research. Okay. If you're in that moment where you're thinking I would love to add automation into my daily workflow, I'm still hesitant of what it's going to bring. Do some research, reach out to the McKesson sales team. They're always open to answer questions and you never know. You might like the answers that you get. And then, like we discussed before don't think about starting off with something big. Just bring something small that will change your workflow.

Britney: Yeah. 

Alisha: And I think from there you'll see the benefits already and then, as time progresses and the pharmacy world is always changing, other things can be added. 

Britney: One [00:48:00] thing I wanna ask, if there's one story or one thing from your work in this space that you can share with the audience that has validated the work you're doing, could you share that?

Alisha: Yeah. Like I mentioned, when I had come to North Carolina and I had visited a pharmacy there where we were implementing the CountMate, I saw how busy that rural pharmacy was. I've never seen a pharmacy that busy in my what, 14 year career of pharmacy practice. So I was just astonished of the nonstop patient interactions. How many people were even staffed at that pharmacy to manage the busy workflow. And that's when I really saw how valuable adding automation into a pharmacy can be.

I saw, the pharmacist was able to spend more time counseling a patient because the robot behind him was counting all the tablets and labeling all the tablets. And that pharmacist even told me how much [00:49:00] he loves the machine for what it's able to do and how it's contributed to his pharmacy. So I think that really opened my eyes to the work that we're doing and how important it is in the healthcare system. 

Britney: What an amazing perspective you've shared with us today.

Alicia Naji, we appreciate you being on Independent Insights. We look forward to hearing from you again, thanks again. 

Alisha: Thank you so much for having me on, Brittany. This was this was really great and I hope it'll be an insightful message to pharmacy owners out there thinking about automation.

Britney: Thank you for tuning in on this episode of Independent Insights where we had Dr. Faisal Adam, registered pharmacist at Mark's pharmacy, and Alisha Nanji, registered pharmacist managing McKesson Canada Central Fill Pharmacy.

Subscribe to Independent Insights wherever you listen to podcasts New episodes are released weekly [00:50:00] Together let's make a lasting impact and shape the future of pharmacy