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Independent Insights, a Health Mart Podcast
A Review of Acute Rescue Therapies in Clinical Practice
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Acute rescue medications are critical in time-sensitive emergencies, and pharmacists play an essential role in ensuring patients and caregivers are prepared to use them correctly. This course discusses the roles of glucagon, naloxone, and epinephrine, including recent updates on novel formulations and device innovations that are reshaping emergency response in community settings. You will gain practical insights to strengthen counseling, improve readiness, and support optimal outcomes when seconds matter most.
HOST
Rachel Maynard, PharmD
GameChangers Podcast Host and Lead, Clinical & Partnership Education, CEimpact
GUEST
Wendy Mobley-Bukstein, PharmD, BCACP, CDCES, CHWC, NASM-CPT
Professor of Pharmacy Practice
Drake University CPHS
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PRACTICE RESOURCE
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CPE INFORMATION
Learning Objectives
Upon successful completion of this knowledge-based activity, participants should be able to:
1. Describe the mechanisms of action and primary indications for glucagon, naloxone, and epinephrine as acute rescue medications.
2. Summarize recent updates for glucagon, naloxone, and epinephrine that impact pharmacist counseling and patient access.
Rachel Maynard has no relevant financial relationships with ineligible companies to disclose.
Wendy Mobley-Bukstein is a Diabetes Care Speaker for Abbott. All relevant financial relationships have been mitigated.
0.05 CEU/0.5 Hr
UAN: 0107-0000-26-131-H01-P
Initial release date: 5/18/2026
Expiration date: 5/18/2027
Additional CPE details can be found here.
Welcome And Why Rescue Meds
SPEAKER_00Hi Healthmart Pharmacists, from your education partner CE Impact, this is Game Changers. I'm your host, Jen Moulton, and each week we have a conversation on a hot clinical topic that will keep you current in practice and position you as a resource for prescribers and patients. Thanks for listening in.
SPEAKER_01Welcome to the Game Changers Clinical Update Podcast. I'm your host, Rachel Maynard. Today we've got a really unique topic for our conversation, and it's one where pharmacists can play a pivotal role. We're going to be looking at acute rescue medications that are critical in time-sensitive emergencies, so specifically naloxone, glucagon, and epinephrine. And this is a hot topic for a few reasons. For example, OTC naloxone nasal spray is getting a new carrying case with the intent of increasing uptake by making it compact and in an effort to reduce stigma with more discrete packaging. Only about 10% of the general population currently carry naloxone. Plus, we've had some new formulations of these rescue products join the pack in recent years. We now have an epinephrine nasal spray, as well as a few ready-to-use glucagon products that are easier to give. So today we'll clear up some confusion about where these products may fit in and how we as pharmacists can ensure that patients and caregivers have access to these products and know how to use them correctly.
A Guest View On Access
SPEAKER_01And I'm so excited to welcome our expert guest for today's discussion who has lots of practical experience in this area, Dr. Wendy Mobley Buckstein. So welcome, Wendy. Thank you so much, Rachel. It's great to be here. We're so excited to have you and thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to meet with us. But for our listeners who may not be familiar with you, could you just share a little bit about your background, your current role, and why you're interested in this topic? Sure.
SPEAKER_03I'm a professor of pharmacy practice at Drake University. I'm also uh I refer to myself as a diabetes specialist, but um when you when it comes down to it, um cardiometabolic care perhaps is probably better as to what I do, but ambulatory care pharmacy um pharmacist, I I practice at primary health care at the East Side Clinic and also the West Side Clinic here in Des Moines, which is a federally qualified health center. And so most of my patients are underinsured, uninsured, refugees. So many are English as a second language or perhaps don't speak English at all. And so really just trying to help everyone access healthcare in an equitable way.
SPEAKER_01Excellent. Well, I think that will probably come back in this discussion because we do want to make sure that access and insurance and coverage is not a problem. But let's just start out with getting on the same page about I, you know, I alluded to some of these rescue therapies that we're going to be talking about. So glucagon, naloxum, and epinephrine. And these are, I think, really important for pharmacists to be aware of and thinking about proactively because these are tools that can be life-saving for people in an acute sort of emergency situation. And we can also play a really important role in ensuring that not only the patient, but any caregivers know how and when to give these products.
How The Three Rescue Drugs Work
SPEAKER_01So to just make sure we're on the same page, if we if we're looking at those three drugs, so glucagon, naloxone, and epinephrine, give us an overview of when these are used, why they're used, and how they work, if you don't mind.
SPEAKER_03So I'll start with glucagon. Um again, I'm a diabetes specialist. So glucagon, typically used in those uh situations where a person is either going low, they know that they're going low, they know that when they go low, that they become unable to help themselves. And so I typically talk with patients, and we'll we'll come back to this, I think, a little bit later in the podcast. But typically I tell people if you're getting to the point where you know that you're going to get to a place where you cannot help yourself anymore, let's give the glucagon. It's also used as a rescue medication for someone who's already gone unconscious from having high blood, or I'm sorry, hypoglycemia. And so the way that it works is that it actually stimulates adenylate cyclase to produce an increased cyclic AMP. So cyclic AMP actually helps promote gluconeogenesis as well as glycogenolysis in the liver so that it helps get more sugar, the liver's able to put that sugar out into the bloodstream and increase the blood, uh, the blood glucose. Okay, great. Naloxone works a little differently. Uh, so what it does is it's used in opioid overdose. So for those individuals who are on opioid medications, we would want them to have some naloxone. Again, would be used if you know a caregiver, loved one, bystander comes upon someone, they're unable to wake them, you know, that would be the time that we would want to use it. And this is a pure opioid antagonist that competes and displaces the opioid at the opioid receptor site. And so again, we'll we'll come back to kind of what does that mean? Because it definitely comes with different effects once you give the medication. And then epinephrine is used for those anaphylactic reactions. So when someone is super allergic to something where it can cause their throat or wind pipe to actually close up. And so it stimulates alpha, beta 1, and beta 2 adrenergic receptors, resulting in smooth muscle relaxation. So we're talking about the bronchioles, it stimulates the cardiac tissue a little bit, it can cause a little bit of vasodilation within those beta 2 receptors as well. So it's gonna help rescue that person from having that respiratory collapse.
SPEAKER_01Well, thank you for that overview.
When To Give It Fast
SPEAKER_01And I think one of the uh potentially differentiators that I think of with these products is with Well, I'll get your clarification on it. So I'm thinking with glucagon and with naloxone, those are administered when a patient is already unconscious, whereas epinephrine, a patient could be you know, aware of the facts that they are having these anaphylactic symptoms. They might be having hives, trouble breathing, wheezing, and uh recognize, and they can self-administer. Whereas naloxone and glucagon are more often given by a caregiver. Would you say that's an accurate assessment?
SPEAKER_03I would say pretty close. I think as far as glucagon is concerned, again, it gets into that situation of like if the person has had hypoglycemia before, they may understand how they respond and they may know that as soon as my sugar gets below 50, I am going to be at a point where I can't help myself anymore. And if they know, so this is why I love continuous glucose monitors so much, is if they know that their blood sugar is 54 and they have a downward trending arrow, meaning that their sugar is continuing to go down, I would tell them to administer it if they can't physically get some sort of carbohydrate into their system at that point. But to your point, if you're finding someone who is on insulin who's been on a sulfonyl urea or a glutenide of some kind, and they are unconscious, my first response to that would be don't even worry about checking their blood sugar, just give them a gun.
SPEAKER_01Well, and so that's a great segue into my next question, which is really I I think there's often, especially from caregivers who may not be used to administering medications and bystanders too, like you say, there may be some hesitation or delay or concern about, well, if I give this, is there going to be some kind of bad reaction? And I think helping to clarify when these medications should be given is so important. So can you talk a little bit about that?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so I think, you know, it's perfectly fine for individuals to give these rescue medications, especially, I mean, you know, you don't want to just be like, oh, they shouldn't be sleeping, you know. Uh, you know, you should you should give a good, like yes, a good uh, you know, sternal rub to make sure that you're not just like having someone really heavy sleeping, right? Like you need to make sure that they are they are in this kind of unconscious state. And then being able to give it. I mean, I think that that's the the big part. Um, you know, glucagon, for instance, used to be uh the only product that was available was called a hypo kit. And so this is where it was a powder vial, you had a syringe with a little bit of liquid diluent in it, and you had to mix it up, you know, and that could take some time. Now we have these other products that are available: room stable injectable glucagon, nasal glucagon. And so now that caregiver has a lot of other opportunities to be able to help that patient. And not only with the glucagon, but you now have nasal naloxone, we have nasal epinephrine. So we have these these opportunities for caregivers to be able to help, you know, someone who they can't get an answer from.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and so I uh you you touched on a few different points though that I think are really important. So being aware that they they, as you said, doing external rub, making sure they're not asleep, asleep versus unconscious. But that's usually a pretty clear distinction, I think most people can tell. And it's also the the fact that there are, as I alluded to in the the intro, you know, lots of different options available to make it easier for people to administer, to increase that comfort level, to help people feel empowered to be able to administer these if they feel that a person is in need. And so I I think that's great, and that we've seen those developments over the past few years with all three of these products, it's just wonderful to be able to encourage people to give it when needed.
Side Effects And Why Not Wait
SPEAKER_01Are there any uh risks or harms if a patient or a caregiver, I should say, gave one of these products and say, you know, say the person they thought was having an opioid overdose, they were not, they gave naloxone. Is there any concern with that? And let's apply that to all three of those drugs.
SPEAKER_03Sure. So I'll answer naloxone first because that's the one you asked about. Uh the patient's probably not going to be very happy because they're going to feel pretty bad. Because again, that naloxone is going to displace that opioid, which was helping control pain in most cases, you know, and so they're going to have some pain again when they wake up. Um, and they're probably not going to be very happy about that. But again, it's better, I I would just say in general, it's better to give that rescue medication than, you know, perhaps not giving it. Um, the glucagon, the patient is going to probably end up vomiting, just the, just the how all of the gluconeogenesis and the glycogenalysis happens. So making sure that the person is on their side when that glucagon is given, because as soon as it starts to work, which glucagon takes about 10 to 15 minutes depending on the preparation that you give for it to start to work. And so, but when they do start waking up, they're gonna be nauseated, probably end up vomiting, and so having them turned up on their side. With the epinephrine, you know, the same, it takes about five to ten minutes, depending again on the preparation versus the sub Q versus the the nasal, but uh they're gonna start to feel you know relief from the the you know, perhaps shortness of breath and or the closing up of the of the uh of the throat and those kinds of things, but they may have some of those cardiac side effects. So that increased heart rate, maybe that nervous kind of jittery feeling from taking from having the epinephrine. But again, I don't think there's any reason for you not to give those rescue therapies.
SPEAKER_01Right. We're talking about potentially life-saving we're potentially saving a life versus some of the potential side effects that you just described. So it's sort of that balance of when in doubt, give, I think is is the bottom line.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, my uh I have written on my notes in big capital letters, don't wait until it's too late.
SPEAKER_01Right. And that's such an important point because again, it if a if a caregiver or even the patient is uncertain or in doubt, when in doubt, give. Right. Don't wait Yeah, until it's too late. Okay, yeah, yeah, don't wait until it's too late. I think that's a great take-home message. And again, thinking about the different formulations and products that we now have and making it easier for people to give, I think the other consideration is getting it into the hands of the patient or caregiver. And I know you have some personal experience with this and your practice and how you've been ensuring that people have access and are aware of these medications, sort of taking a proactive approach. So can you tell us a little bit about that?
Proactive Prescribing In Real Practice
SPEAKER_01Sure.
SPEAKER_03So again, I I work in a doctor's office. And so one of the things that we've done with our electronic health record is we're building order sets. So for individuals who are getting prescribed insulin or they're getting prescribed uh sulfonal urea, for example, glucagon comes up as another part of that order set. So the patient is going to then get education in the office, either from the resident, the physician, myself, my pharmacy students, someone is going to give them some education about that. We also are building order sets with the opioids as well to make sure that naloxone is given. But I think, you know, when you talk about standard of care and where we're at with pharmacy, I think what's really important is if you are a community-based pharmacist and someone comes into your pharmacy with a prescription for insulin and you review their medication list and you don't see glucagon on there, there is no reason that you shouldn't prescribe glucagon. And you can do that with the standard of care regulation that we have. Do you need to inform the physician that you've done it? Yes, you do. And you also need to give the patient education and/or caregivers education on how this works. But I think it's the same. We've had the statewide protocol for naloxone for many years. And it's the same. If an opioid prescription comes in, you can put a prescription for naloxone right into the computer. And now with the standard of care regulation, you don't even need the statewide protocol for that.
SPEAKER_01And I think you're based in Iowa, and just to be crystal clear, this is an Iowa that you're speaking for. But there are more states, as we've seen, passing regulations allowing pharmacists to follow this sort of standard of care where they have prescribing authority to be able to initiate these therapies in certain circumstances, like you just described. For our listeners, just to be clear, you know, you want to know what's applicable in your state, whether your state has standing orders around these around these things. Uh, some pharmacies may have collaborate practice agreements set up that allow them to initiate various therapies, or um it's just something to check with your state and be aware of. But I do think we're seeing movement, as you said, Wendy, to more states allowing this. And so just expanding the ability of pharmacists to be able to initiate these therapies and prescribe them for patients who are in need. Do you want to say something more about that? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I would say, you know, I do know I have a little bit of knowledge about like surrounding states. So I would say statewide protocols are really important, um, collaborative practice agreements, um, you know, if your state allows those. If not, I know in Missouri they do CDT, CDTM, so they have these certificates of drug therapy management that they can have. And so you can apply for different ones. And so applying to be able to do rescue therapies would be a way to think about that. So I think, you know, again, knowing what your state will allow and being able to do that, you know, I think the bigger issue for us at this point is being able, as the pharmacist, as the prescriber, being reimbursed for that. And so that's one of the things that we, in at least here in Iowa, that we're really working through right now, you know, not having federal provider status for Medicare. In our state, Medicaid actually recognizes providers, uh, pharmacists as providers if you're registered with them. So you have to go through a credentialing process to be registered with Medicaid in the state of Iowa. But then, you know, with your commercial insurances, is it varies from planned to plan as to whether or not the pharmacist can be a prescriber. And so really contacting those different, you know, major players perhaps in your state to find out if you could become a credentialed provider in their system.
SPEAKER_01And to be clear, that's uh feeling for the service that you're providing versus the prescription itself and the product, the drug. So you're talking about getting paid for the uh, you know, the education that you're providing, the documentation, the initiation, that side of it, which is really important. But also, I do think we want to think about the coverage for the drug too. And maybe you can speak a little bit about that too, considerations for the patient with the drug costs. For sure.
SPEAKER_03So I think that that's another area where pharmacists can play a big role, right? If I send a prescription to the pharmacy for glucagon, I feel like then the it's the pharmacist that should be able to say, okay, what are you most comfortable with at your home, right? It are the caregivers okay with giving an injection? If they're not, then let's go with the nasal. Or perhaps your insurance
Coverage And Choosing The Best Form
SPEAKER_03um formulary only covers the nasal. And so allowing the pharmacist to help kind of choose the product for the patient, you know, based on a lot of different factors. And I feel like that um with the implementation of some of the different things that have happened over many years, I feel like a lot of that autonomy that we may have had in the past has gone away because we're afraid that, oh, if we get audited, perhaps we're not going to, you know, we're going to have money taken away because we didn't have that. So so I think that those are some different things. But I do see that if that prescription comes in, and I'm going to say generically as glucagon or naloxone, and you do help with, you know, figuring out which product is is best, then obviously communicating back to the primary care provider that this is the product that we chose for the patient, because then not only are you giving them the information that they need to have in their electronic health record, but then you're also getting a verbal okay for you to be able to fill that prescription and and you can write that right onto the prescription. So kind of, you know, it works a little bit differently. And yes, it's a little uh there's a stepwise process that you're gonna have to go through. But until we have, you know, the pharmacist seen as a prescriber that can bill for those services, then we're gonna have to to do some of those things.
SPEAKER_01Sure, sure. And I think it's uh we need to be thinking about uh, as you said, not only cost and what's going to be covered for the patient for a particular product, but also the dosage form and how comfortable they or their caregivers, family, friends is going to be using it. So all of those considerations need to come into play when thinking about what makes the most sense for your patients. So I love the idea of having it being written generically so that when possible the pharmacist who's working with the patient directly can decide that. And to go back to the discussion around how you've got uh EHR alerts set up for people on insulin, for example, who then you are prompted automatically to think about FlukaCon and then you can prescribe it. Even in those states where there's not a standard of care or there's not a standing order or a collaborative agreement, I I think there's still so much room for pharmacists to be able to communicate with the patient, inform them about this as something that you should be aware of and asking your provider about, or even proactively sending a request to the prescriber and saying, hey, this patient's on insulin. I noticed they haven't gotten a glucagon in the past. What do you think about prescribing this and even providing you know templates for them to you know support that prescribing? Go ahead. I see you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely. I I'm 100% in agreement with you. I think that you know it's it is our due diligence, you know, to make sure that we're helping protect those individuals. And so if they're on medications where they could need to have a rescue therapy, then we should be, you know, trying to provide that for the patient. So absolutely, I think that if if they're not getting a prescription or a prescription is not coming through from their provider's office, then we should be, you know, at least offering to call the provider's office and ask if we could have a prescription for that.
SPEAKER_01I think it's a great intervention for us to be thinking about is we're working with patients, as you say, on a case-by-case prescription-by-prescription basis, but also when doing med reviews and this sort of thing, to just be having that on our radar as, again, a life-saving therapy that might come in need someday.
Quick Counseling That Sticks
SPEAKER_01So let's think about at the patient pharmacist interaction side of things and when a patient's actually getting one of these medications. And I know we can't spend time talking about all the different counseling points for these different products and they're nuanced depending on the product that you're getting. But what are some of the general themes or main counseling points if you only have a minute or two with a patient that you'd really want to drive home?
SPEAKER_03So I think number one is having someone in the home andor support system that also knows how to do it. And so really talking with them about like, I need you to have someone in mind that you can call. So I'm thinking of someone who's going low who knows that they're going to need to potentially use that glucagon. Like they're texting their friend, they're texting their loved one, you know, and or with opioid or epinephrine, like recognizing, or I'm sorry, nalaxone or epinephrine, recognizing, you know, how do I know if I need to use it? You know, and so, and so talking through that, you know, I think for epinephrine, you know, each person may present a little differently as to how their symptoms may start. And so, you know, I'm pretty fair complexed. I start to get hives and you can see them start to appear on my neck and on the, you know, pretty quickly, you know, to know that, okay, something is probably going to need to happen. And then the shortness of breath starts to happen and then you can start to feel kind of the throat start closing up type of thing versus like with the glucagon, you you can obviously notice that, but the opioid is going to be a little bit harder. And so you know talking with people about if you can't wake me up, you haven't seen me in a couple of hours, you can't wake me up, this is when we need to use the naloxone. And so I think that would be my first my my first counseling point and and if it's the only amount of time that I have is that and then how do you administer it? You know, and and talking with them about administration.
SPEAKER_01Yeah I think those are critical points clearly that uh the patient needs to know about and also in terms of helping them educate others what tips do you have around that? Because we want to be sure that not only the patient but also anyone who might be a family member or a caregiver who might be nearby and need to give that how do we help them educate others to feel confident administering these?
Destigma Support Systems And Calling 911
SPEAKER_03Yeah I think it's I think it's super important that we're destigmatizing you know yes individuals have to take insulin yes there are individuals who have to take opioids for pain control. Yes there are people who perhaps need epinephrine for different types of allergies that they have to to different things in the environment or food or or whatever it happens to be. But we need to destigmatize it and and have people know that these treatments are here we need to use them here's when we need to use them and you know relying on your support system. There are likely many people have a friend support system you know their family anything like that that they could you know talk with them about like here are some things that I may need. I I can tell you from my own personal experience I learned how to use glucagon when I was 15 with my best friend who had type 1 diabetes and so it's it's it's a necessary type of thing but as a 15 year old with your friend lying on the ground unconscious it's a lot but it was something that was necessary in order to make sure that I could save her life if I needed to I think that's just such a great story to think about driving home the importance of of yeah this is life saving right like we we we want to make sure that we are you know keeping our loved ones you know alive and that's what these therapies are for. Right right along those lines what is the general rule around you say the the medication is administered and then in terms of emergency care do we always call 911 after one of these products is administered yes um we definitely want to call 911 we want it we want to get them in you know because again the drugs themselves work relatively quickly but they don't stay in the system very long and so depending on you know with an opioid maybe you have some sort of long acting opioid on board where the naloxone is not going to be able to displace all of the opioid that's there for the amount of time that it works, right? Or the person has taken too much of their long-acting insulin and so we've got the glucagon there and it's working but what happens when you know it it's done what it's supposed to do and now the sugar is going back down. And so making sure that they're getting that you know just in general getting a a good follow-up and going and and being checked out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah so it's not only about the acute situation which as you say could last longer than the effects of the rescue medication and so they may need additional care in a hospital to be able to manage that but also helping to prevent this in the future as well and whether there needs to be an adjustment in their regimen or education needs to be given around what triggers to look for that sort of thing that additional care is also needed as part of that follow-up. Yes.
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Storage Expiration And Using Expired
SPEAKER_01And then in terms of uh other key counseling points you know the things that come to my mind are expiration dates and especially as we head into summer, being aware of how to store these products properly, ensuring that patients are not keeping them in the I mean we need them to be on hand, right? So that's sometimes a challenge. Have you had any uh good advice around managing that with the heat and that sort of thing?
SPEAKER_03Yes so typically you know we're telling we're telling patients please make sure that you're keeping these with you you know room temperature up to about 77 degrees is okay. Storing them in your car in the glove box not really an okay place for it to be because that's obviously could get much hotter in in the summer. And so making sure that we're talking with them about that. But most of these rescue therapies have about a 24 to 30 month dating I would say the epinephrine perhaps has a little bit shorter dating. Sometimes it's about 12 to 15 months but the others are a little bit longer. And so it is something that I would say you know if you know that you've dispensed a laxone or you've dispensed glucagon, you've dispensed epinephrine, being able to run a report, you know, contact individuals and say, hey, you know, I I noticed that we filled this about a year ago for you. How's it going? Would you mind looking at the expiration date on that just to make sure that we're not needing to replace it. So I often talk with with patients about, you know, you might receive a phone call from us, you know, to to look at those expiration dates again and just make sure that you have product that's in date that's going to work if you need it.
SPEAKER_01That's a really practical point and idea of reaching out based on a report of who's received these products within the past year or so knowing that the expiration dates vary, but always a good reminder to refill before you need it and before the expiration date has passed so that they're not then struggling.
SPEAKER_03You know, I will ask um one question that commonly comes up is what if it is expired and they don't have an in date product should should it be given yes um yes I and I would say one of I I would say one of my colleagues um at Drake has done some studies on is epinephrine still good after the expiration date and and what a lot of what a lot of their findings were is yes you know even though the the product says that the manufacturer's recommended expiration date is is passed they still found that it was active enough that it would it would do something. Now it may not have the full you know the full strength action that you would normally get but you know I would still give it of course calling 911 is really important as well. So activating EMS right away but also still giving there's there's no reason and there's nothing that I can think of as far as like is there some sort of like you know pro drug or metabolite that might be there that would be of you know egregious and there's really nothing there that would happen. I mean I think that the biggest problem would be is maybe it wouldn't work to its fullest potential.
SPEAKER_01And I think we've seen that when there were shortages of epinephrine in the past where FDA came out with extended durations of expiration dates so that they could be administered beyond that label date. So I think that's a good point to clarify. And it goes back to what what was the phrase you used before?
SPEAKER_03Don't delay yeah don't wait till it's too late.
SPEAKER_01Don't wait till it's too late. Thank you. I think that's just the main take home message here from our discussion and also being sure that they're getting that EMS and follow-up
Pharmacists As First Responders
SPEAKER_01care as well. But also I I just want to bring back the idea that pharmacists are in such a critical position to be proactively thinking about this and initiating these when appropriate and legal in your state uh but really having that proactive role. But Wendy we're about out of time so I just want to wrap up it's our game changers podcast so we always wrap up with the game changer and we talked about a lot of really great practical points but what would you say is the game changer that you want our listeners to walk away with today I think pharmacists are first responders.
SPEAKER_03It's our opportunity to provide these medications to patients if they're in the hospital, they're in the clinic or they're in your community-based pharmacy if they're coming in they're on insulin or secretiga or opioids we should be offering them these rescue therapies if they're not receiving a prescription from their provider for them.
SPEAKER_01Excellent well thank you I think the it's it's all about access and getting these life-saving meds into the hands of patients for these time critical situations. So thank you so much Wendy for your expertise and I loved hearing your personal experience with this it was really eye-opening and enlightening thank you.
SPEAKER_00Thank you thank you so much for having me on the podcast and that's it for this week be sure to log in to Healthmart University to claim your CE credit for this episode. As always have a great week and keep learning we'll talk to you next week