RMB Ultra-Trail Cape Town: The Place We Run

 “I mean, there’s no mountain around the world that, that feels like home. Apart from from Table Mountain.” Ryan Sandes. 

Trail legends Ryan Sandes & Robbie Simpson, Friends of Table Mountain's Andy Davies & RMB Sponsorship Marketing Lead Michael Edwards discuss their deep, shared relationship with Table Mountain as a race, a refuge, and a responsibility.

Host Dean Horwitz guides the conversation to uncover what makes this landmark so much more than just a backdrop. This is the launch of our new RMB UTCT series, starting with the "living stadium" of the race and the community that makes it all possible 

🎯 In this episode, you’ll hear: 
✅  Ryan Sandes on why Table Mountain is the only place in the world that feels like "home." 
✅  Robbie Simpson on the shock of "European style" expectations vs. the "really, really hard" reality of Cape Town's trails. 
✅  The critical, year-round work Andy Davies' team does to maintain the trails we all get to run on.
✅ Michael Edwards on why the mountain is the "stadium" for this race, and why that creates a deep responsibility to protect it. 

Whether you're toeing the line for the 100-miler or dreaming of the 35km, this episode will fundamentally change the way you see "The Place We Run."

This Special Edition of the Trail Chasers Podcast is proudly sponsored by RMB. 

Enjoying the season? Subscribe, leave a review, and tag @trailchaserspod to share your biggest takeaway from the legends' conversation on Table Mountain.

Transcript

Dean: It starts with a mountain, a living, breathing landmark that defines a city and shapes its people. For runners, it's a playground; for conservationists, a responsibility; and for those who partner with it like RMB, it's a promise to protect, preserve, and give back.

In this first episode of our special RMB Ultra-Trail Cape Town series, we're exploring the place—the land that makes it all possible. We'll hear from Mike Edwards, head of sponsorship at RMB, on what drew them to this mountain; from Andy Davies, chairperson of Friends of Table Mountain, on what it takes to protect it; and from elite athletes Robbie Simpson and Ryan Sandes, who remind us why running here feels like coming home.

This is where our story begins: on Table Mountain, the heart of RMB Ultra-Trail Cape Town.

Dean: Mike, welcome back to the Trail Chasers.

Michael: Thanks so much for having me, Dean.

Dean: We are here today to chat about UTCT and the incredible work that RMB is doing with the race and just really elevating the race. This first episode that we're chatting about is all about the place that the race takes place in, on the iconic Table Mountain. I think it's quite unique in that not a lot of races do take place using the whole of Table Mountain. You've obviously run the race yourself as well. So when I say Table Mountain, or when you think back on those memories of running it, what comes to mind and what does it mean to you personally?

Michael: So I'm actually working my way through all the races. I've got two to go. But for me personally, it's just the most exceptional race. I think we are very fortunate to live in a country that has such incredible environmental heritage and beautiful places. The Table Mountain National Park, and broadly speaking, the trails of the Western Cape are just a quintessential example of that.

It's incredibly special to run through the trails—167 kilometres of them—which is effectively the stadium of trail running. For me, it's just a privilege to be able to spend time in quiet places in today's age. You and I are talking on a podcast right now; we don't always get, and it's difficult to find, those quiet spaces. And so for me, RMB Ultra-Trail Cape Town, that broader trail network, and trail running in general just represents an incredible environment to spend time in.

Dean: So what was it about Table Mountain that stuck out for RMB, made you want to get involved?

Michael: Good question. I touched on it there already. The race of RMB Ultra-Trail Cape Town... its stadium is the mountain. There's no other sport quite like it where they have such a stadium. So you're traversing 160-plus kilometres of beautiful biodiversity that is just a rich South African heritage, and I think that was one of the early attraction points for us getting involved.

We saw it as a leader in the sport. But more than just the event and the races that it puts on and the talent that it attracts, we saw an opportunity to associate our brand with that environment and to make an impact on that environment. We know the race has the RMB Ultra-Trail Cape Town Trail Fund, of which there are generous beneficiaries who are daily and consistently contributing to preserving those spaces and preserving the incredible biodiversity in the fauna and flora that we have.

So that's far beyond trail running, frankly. Hikers, adventurers, outdoor enthusiasts... my daughters, my daughter's daughters will be able to enjoy the same spaces that I've been able to enjoy. And that's very powerful for us as a brand to get involved in. We have a lot of resources, people, and investment that we can give to contribute to such a good cause.

Dean: You touched on the Trail Fund there. So take me back, was that always part of the plan in sponsoring the race, and how did the formation of that fund happen?

Michael: The fund was initiated long before our arrival. Stuart McConnachie, the race director, initiated the Trail Fund. It's effectively, for now at least, made up of Friends of Table Mountain, the Sugarbird Project, and Sustainable Cederberg. All three are beneficiaries from generous sources: one being race entries, two being corporate sponsors like ourselves, and then public investment that contributes even beyond and outside the race.

So that was established long before our arrival, and we just identified that as a key tenant that we wanted to contribute to. It's a key differentiator to the race. In sponsorships, we're constantly looking at our sponsorship portfolio and our sponsorship properties for ways and means to get invested and to have an influence beyond the events, the individuals, and the athletes that take part. And so for us, it's just been a great channel through which we can direct investment, and we know it's going to the right places, and we know it's going to a great cause.

Dean: One of the partners you support is Friends of Table Mountain, and they obviously do incredible and very visible work on the trails. We have an interview with Andy, and we're going to hear from him now.

Dean: Andy, welcome. What does Table Mountain mean to yourself personally?

Andy: It's an incredibly special place because it's this beautiful mountain that sits within our city. Visually, it's an amazing thing to look at every day. I live out in Blouberg and I get to look at it every day, but it's also an incredible recreational space for many people. My first passion is climbing, and then obviously running and walking on the mountain, and there are so many opportunities for us to do things like that on Table Mountain. So it's an incredibly special place for me and my family.

Dean: And how did Friends of Table Mountain start?

Andy: So early 2020, the Minister, Barbara Creecy, came down to address many of the user's concerns about the way the park was being managed. She set up some task teams, and unfortunately, those task teams failed. As a result of that, Friends of Table Mountain was formed because we realized we needed an advocacy group in order to ensure that the park was managed appropriately.

Dean: And how did you get involved?

Andy: I attended the ministerial meeting, and then I volunteered for one of the task teams, and then I got connected to many of the other people on task teams. Together, we realized there was an issue. We voiced our concerns, and then we realized we needed to set up something a little bit more formal in order to ensure the park was managed appropriately.

Dean: And exactly, what do Friends of Table Mountain do?

Andy: First and foremost, our role is advocacy. We communicate with SANParks and with various other stakeholders in order to try and improve the management and improve the budget allocation of Table Mountain National Park. Currently, we're busy running a petition at change.org, which we hopefully will wrap up fairly soon.

We also realized that we could maybe do something physical to improve the park, and we decided to start a little trail clearing team. We've got three guys working on the mountain now, and they work pretty hard throughout the year at clearing trails. That's the major thing we do. We also do some smaller jobs, like we partner up with the Sugarbird Project, the Hout Bay Hacking initiative clearing alien vegetation, and we do some other work with some of the consulates installing directional signage to improve safety. That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

Dean: I think most people are obviously familiar with the clearing team and the clearing work that you do. How did that come about, and why is their job so important?

Andy: It's interesting. We had a meeting with the SANParks CEO, and at that time SANParks had stopped the BatRun, which is a really, really important trail running race for us. At that meeting with the CEO, we agreed that we would collaborate by helping SANParks to fix the trail up Devil's Peak, and then they would allow the BatRun to open. So the BatRun was opened, but still, we got no action from SANParks.

What we decided to do is we partnered up with the honorary rangers and many volunteers, and then we started fixing the Devil's Peak trail. From that, it basically grew. Many funders came to us. One of the most important funders, UTCT, came to us and offered to help us with funding. And currently, we are able to pay our team throughout the whole year.

Dean: And how do you determine which trails get cleared when? How does the schedule get put together?

Andy: Well, quite often funders come to us and they say, "Okay, we've got an event running," like UTCT, and they will identify trails. But our team is very active on the mountain. We've got quite an extensive team of people. Some of our guys and girls spend hours on the mountain, and we know all the trails. So we identify them, and we get a lot of feedback from people. They say, "Okay, this trail is in really bad condition," and we put it on the plan and then we try and plan it in as soon as possible.

Dean: Obviously, we are talking about UTCT today. But why do you think, other than the fact that it runs on Table Mountain, it's such an important part of the UTCT?

Andy: Look, Table Mountain, like I've explained, is an incredibly beautiful national park and a mountain within the city. And Cape Town itself is incredibly special, having that mountain and sea around the city. I think it's really, really amazing for, especially our international visitors, to come here and to run on such amazing trails in the middle of the city. It must be an incredible experience.

Dean: And you touched a little bit about how that relationship started but take me back to the beginning. How was that born?

Andy: Stuart McConnachie, UTCT's race director, has always been incredibly supportive. He's very much invested in Table Mountain National Park. And through the BatRun and through Tuesday Trails and then through UTCT, he's been supporting us. So I must give a lot of credit to Stuart for helping us.

Dean: And one of the initiatives that they have is the Trail Fund. How does that fund your work?

Andy: Typically, a few weeks before UTCT, Stu will approach us and identify some trails he'd like us to work on, and then we will work on them. Currently, we're busy working down just above Scarborough on some trails for UTCT, and then we'll probably move over to Llandudno. For the next five or six weeks, we work pretty hard on UTCT trails.

Dean: And what role does RMB play in all of that?

Andy: RMB has been supporting us for a few years, and they're basically funding us, which is really, really good because obviously, we need the cash to be able to pay wages and materials and tools and maintenance and stuff like that.

I must tell you one story. I forget which year it was exactly, but basically, we had like 6,000 Rand left in the bank, and we just said, "We don't know how we're going to pay the wages and everything." But we knew that RMB and UTCT were going to help us. And due to that, we've really been able to build. So, I give a lot of credit to UTCT and RMB for keeping us going at an extremely critical part of our journey.

Dean: I think there's also an important point that it doesn't only fund the month before UTCT. I think that's also often a misconception where people think, "Okay, cool. Month before UTCT, you guys come in, clean the trails, and then it's done and dusted." So I think that's also a particularly important point.

Andy: Look, throughout the year, the trail runners are amazing. Through the various trail running clubs and everything, they've been incredibly supportive of us. And the really important thing about, for example, UTCT and RMB, is those trails are not only used during UTCT. Hikers and runners use them throughout the year. So, we are having a lasting impression on the mountain.

Dean: And how important is the actual race itself as a showcase for the work that you're doing and a showcase for the charity?

Andy: Obviously, all the media coverage we get from the race and through RMB is very beneficial to us. It really highlights the work that we're doing. Every year, RMB pays for a nice little video clip of the work we do. I think it's really nice for people to see what we do, and it's always really nice to see the support we get during the race. Our trail workers get a lot of support, and it's great to see the whole trail community being behind us.

Dean: And mentioning trail workers, I know some of them run. Talk a bit about that initiative and getting them into races.

Andy: Our guys have competed in UTCT. One of our runners, Alec, is a great runner. He won Jonkershoek, and he's quite competitive. He's training quite hard. UTCT is extremely competitive. He'll hopefully be running this year also.

Dean: So is that also part of the initiative? He runs for Friends of Table Mountain in the race?

Andy: Correct.

Andy: He's really good. I think we will be seeing him on the 35K, hopefully. He's busy training quite hard. It's also quite nice: when he runs in the mountain, he sees problems with trails. I get these WhatsApp’s saying, "Hey Andy, this trail..." on this map. He's exceptionally good. He sends me pictures, and he sends me the map coordinates, and we put that in the database, and we know we need to go back and fix it.

Dean: What does the future look like for Friends of Table Mountain and for the work that you're doing?

Andy: Regardless of the outcomes of our petition that we are running at the moment, I think it's really important for Friends of Table Mountain to remain as an advocacy organization in order to hold the park manager accountable. But at the end of the day, we genuinely love this mountain, and we genuinely want to add value. So we'll continue clearing trails and doing whatever we need to do to improve the mountain.

Dean: Where does this fit in between, as you say, the parks manager, between SANParks, and the work that you do? Is this something ongoing and forever, or are you hoping that it becomes a part of SANParks' mandate?

Andy: Well, as my wife always says, I need to work myself out of a job. So ideally, SANParks should be doing all this work. But I think there's always a role for volunteers, especially for something as important as Table Mountain. So I think there'll always be work for volunteer groups on Table Mountain National Park. I can't foresee us ever stopping working at Friends of Table Mountain.

Dean: And why do you do it personally? What do you get out of it?

Andy: It's like our honorary ranger Toby. We both get a huge amount of pleasure from seeing a really poorly degraded, completely overgrown path, and going and clearing it and just seeing this beautiful path being opened up. And then seeing people use it... it brings us a huge amount of pleasure.

I just think that Table Mountain National Park has got so much potential. It has so much potential for us as recreational users; there's so many beautiful little trails that we can use. And it has a huge amount of potential for tourism. And it's not only the Platteklip Gorge trails and the cableway which has tourism potential. I actually think that Table Mountain National Park has this incredible potential as this amazing trail running destination. You think about going to Chamonix to go trail running... people should think, "Hey, we're going to go and run Table Mountain," just from a recreational standpoint, because it's so beautiful, because the fynbos is so special.

Dean: And over and above clearing trails and the work that we see you doing, why is it so important, other than for running on the mountain, that this work gets done?

Andy: Well, there's so much work that gets done. I think also from an erosion point of view, a conservation point of view, it's really important. We don't want our trails to end up as these massive dongas getting washed away. And also, I think it's quite important to highlight the important role that volunteers play. That's why we've partnered up with people like the Sugarbird Project, who are doing amazing work. And it's not only them; there's a lot of other volunteers doing amazing work on Table Mountain.

I certainly hope that we've highlighted the important role that volunteers play in maintaining these beautiful natural spaces that we own. And it doesn't only relate to Table Mountain National Park; it also relates to other parks in the Western Cape, like the Cederberg, like Jonkershoek. I think all of those parks need special care. And as users of those mountains, we have an important role to play in holding the manager accountable for the correct management of those parks and also doing our bit to try and improve those parks.

Dean: I don't know if you watch UTCT or you go to the finish line and you hear comments, people saying how amazing the trails are and how beautiful it was, especially foreign visitors. What does that do for you?

Andy: Look, we get those comments throughout the year, and it's really great. That feedback is really positive. It helps with motivation. Sometimes you think, "Oh, why am I doing this?" But when you get those comments, it really, really does help. And I mean, I run those trails personally, and it's just so nice being able to run them. To use an example, the middle and upper traverse on Devil's Peak were completely overgrown with this horrible spiky gorse. And I've run those, and it's just this beautiful, flowy single track, and it's just so nice to run that after it's been cleared.

Dean: And when people finish the race or leave Cape Town, a few weeks after the race, what do you hope they take away from interacting with the trails, from finding out perhaps about Friends of Table Mountain?

Andy: Well, I think we do get a lot of support, which is really nice, is that when people sign up for UTCT, they're given the opportunity to donate to us. And we get significant donations through UTCT for that. So that money is used for the trails. And I think, hopefully, when people walk away and they see how much effort has gone in, maybe we can inspire them to do the same themselves in their local areas.

Dean: And besides donations and the like, are there other ways for people to get involved?

Andy: We are always looking for volunteers to help administer the organization. It always requires a lot of administrative work. We have really good people helping us administer the organization. But I think the best thing for people to do is just keep an eye on our social media if we need help.

Dean: And I've met Alec. Are the other guys inspired by the mountain? And is it a passion project for them?

Andy: Look, primarily, they are getting a salary. It's a job for them. There's no doubt about that. But I can definitely see from them that they really appreciate the mountain. We will get these pictures of... sometimes they'll see wildlife, and they'll send us pictures of the wildlife they see. Sometimes when they see the snakes, they're pretty, pretty scared. But no, I think they have developed quite a strong relationship with the mountain. And like I said, when Alec runs in the mountain, he sends me pictures of the trails that are not in good condition. I think they genuinely care about the mountain.

Dean: And lastly, what does it mean to be a friend of Table Mountain?

Andy: Well, hopefully, Friends of Table Mountain isn't only restricted to the people who are official members, but it's the broader community. And I think a friend of Table Mountain is somebody who genuinely cares about the mountain and is willing to do just their little bit to help make it a special place for everybody.

Dean: Amazing, incredible. We'll keep doing the amazing work that you're doing and thank you very much.

Andy: Pleasure.

Dean: So we just had a chat there with Andy from Friends of Table Mountain. One of the things he obviously chatted about was not only the fact that Friends of Table Mountain is an advocacy group that advocates for Table Mountain, but they're also out there every single day fixing and cleaning trails and really just keeping those trails neat and pristine. Apart from the advocacy, what does the action mean to you as well?

Michael: We immediately connected with Andy Davis as a brand from the get-go of this partnership. The work he and the team do on the trail network is absolutely incredible. And to be honest with you, the athletes are remarkable people, but the real heroes are the people that enable the platform and the trail network for those athletes to take part in.

His team... I think broadly the trail community has a lot to thank Andy and his team for, as well as the rest of the beneficiaries like themselves who give so freely and willingly of their time. They're ultimately really inspiring. And within his team, he's actually got a number of individuals who run, and that is so beautiful. He's got people who work on the trails and then put on their takkies and trail shoes, and they are literally testing the trails. They are phenomenal talent in their own right. Those stories are really special, and the more we can unearth that, the better, and long may it continue.

I think there's a lot of gratitude from the trail community towards partners like themselves that do the work that they do. Funnily enough, I've actually just spent some time in the Cape walking a new section of the 100-miler route together with Friends of Table Mountain, which is absolutely sublime. They take a beautiful trail and make it truly great, and it's incredibly special to witness that firsthand.

Dean: For visiting athletes, this place feels almost unreal: steep climbs, ocean air, and the city at your feet. But it's also about belonging. Robbie Simpson has travelled the world chasing trails, yet he says there's something about Cape Town that feels like home.

Dean: Robbie, welcome back to the Trail Chasers and back to Cape Town. When I mention UTCT, what is the first thing that comes to mind?

Robbie: Rocks. Lots and lots of rocks. And hot weather as well. And then the ocean. All those things.

Dean: And you've obviously, being an elite athlete, have raced all over the world. The first time you came to UTCT, or you decided you were going to do it, what drew you here initially?

Robbie: It's a country that I've always wanted to visit. I actually heard about the Otter race years ago. Someone from the UK did it a long, long time ago, and it was on the radar. And South Africa was on the radar. We had some teammates from South Africa join our team, and then Terrex started supporting that race. Also, Macy, a fellow teammate, had been to UTCT, I think the previous year, and had a lot of good things to say about it.

Just the time of year was really, really nice. You finish the season in Europe, and then the weather gets really bad at home. And then November, I was thinking, "I'm ready for another race, but I want to do something exciting, something different." If I'm racing in the autumn time, it's normally something a bit unusual, either a bit longer or traveling somewhere I've not been before. So then I chose the race and didn't really know what to expect. And from the first day here, I absolutely loved it. And then I really enjoyed racing, especially that first year. So every year I'm like, "We'll just come back and do it." It's just a great thing to do this time of year and great fun.

Dean: What surprised you on that first race?

Robbie: A lot. I think how difficult the course was. But also how stunning it is and how varied. The 55K is the one I like, that's the one I've done three years in a row. And I like how there are parts of it where you're running along the beach and the coastline. There are sections where you're on top of an actual mountain, and then you're in the thick forest around Newlands, which I really like. And then you've got the climb to the Blockhouse where it feels more arid, like dry, dusty almost. So it is just so varied throughout the course.

Dean: And what was your first impression of Table Mountain?

Robbie: The kilometres don't come easy there. It's really tough. I remember the first time going up Platteklip and then doing a loop over Table Mountain, and I was thinking, "Table Mountain... I'm sure it'll be like... loads of people go up there. It's probably like a really nice trail." And then you get to the top, and I'm sure it'll be like nice gravel and everything, groomed European-style trails. And no, it's really, really hard. Platteklip... just trying to get to the top of Table Mountain from any direction involves—apart from the zigzags from Constantia Nek, I guess, but even then that doesn't get you to the top—it involves a lot of rocks, a lot of really steep climbing, and just slow running.

Dean: And how's that relationship with Table Mountain evolved as you've come back each time?

Robbie: You get more familiar with it and the routes. Because actually, it's a huge, vast area of a mountain. We think Table Mountain is just one mountain, but actually it goes on forever, and there are loads of little peaks and valleys and hidden sections. So now I know it a little bit better. It's like, "Cool, go up there every now and then," but it's not the main staple of the training, because otherwise we wouldn't be getting extremely far.

Dean: And how do you think your experience of Table Mountain differs from people who have lived here their whole lives and run on the mountain their whole lives?

Robbie: Well, I guess I've grown up somewhere else and run on a lot of different mountains. So I've seen... in Scotland, the mountains are pretty wild as well. We have some fairly technical mountains and changeable weather and all sorts of stuff. And then it's similar in a way to here. In the Alps, I don't know, you get used to more stable weather maybe, and definitely more groomed trails.

So then having seen all that stuff and coming here, it's just... it's quite unique, actually. Table Mountain. I think if you grew up here, you'd be surprised how easy other mountains are, or you can just run up smooth trails. Whereas coming from that and some of the mountains in Scotland as well, then this was... it was a real surprise. It's just like, "Whoa, I didn't expect it to be quite like this."

Dean: And what surprised you the most about the race in terms of the atmosphere, the people, and the community?

Robbie: It's a really welcoming and friendly community. The thing is, South African trail running... it's gotten a lot bigger over the last few years, but it maybe wasn't as big as the road running scene. I've heard of like Two Oceans and Comrades and everything for years and years. I knew it was huge, but the trail running as well... I still felt like the race was a really big race. A lot of people involved, like a huge community around it, and just loads of people who are incredibly enthusiastic about the sport. So much enthusiasm and just energy for trail running.

Dean: And if there's one thing that keeps you coming back, what would that be?

Robbie: I just love the city, and I love South Africa this time of year. It's absolutely amazing. I love the blue ocean, the sunshine, the mountains, just everything in one place and the variety you can have. And it's simply great to come and run and just spend weeks and weeks just running on the trails and meeting people and everything. So that keeps me coming back. I come back for the race, but I come back for the whole build-up to the race, the training, the meeting friends, and everything. I think if I just came out like three days before, did the race, and went home, it would be a vastly different experience.

Dean: What do you think Table Mountain says about trail running in South Africa?

Robbie: Well, it's classic, isn't it? If you're coming to do a race here, Table Mountain is the iconic... one of the most famous mountains in Africa. It's a classic mountain in a huge city. It's so iconic. It's like everywhere you look, you can see Table Mountain, like in the city, one side of it. And I think it's absolutely amazing having that there. Although having said that, the 55K doesn't do a lot on Table Mountain, which I'm glad of because it's just so brutal. Like the 100K route going up Platteklip and then down Llandudno ravine.

Dean: And how was the support and the reception you received the first time you came here, and how has that evolved over the last few years?

Robbie: It was really good initially because I didn't know anyone the first year, really. Just one or two people. But we got really well supported through Adidas South Africa, and we had a lot of people looking out for us and helping us out. I even remember the first year I came here doing a run in Jonkershoek. And then some guy was mountain biking, and he's like, "Oh, you guys are here from Terrex, and we've heard all about you and stuff." I was like, "Huh." But so people were already looking out for us and making an effort to support us and make us feel welcome.

And I like that a lot. But then now I've been coming back, I feel like I know people very well. I've done a lot of racing here. I feel like I know the running community well, and it's just more... it's a nice level of knowing a lot of people, getting a lot of support. Like when I run on the trails or race the trails, so many people are cheering my name, and I'm like, "Oh, that's cool. I know more people than I thought." And this feels like a second home, actually.

Dean: And what is your favourite moment in the race?

Robbie: I'm trying to think now. I do love the section... I like the flowing trails just before... [UCT]. Because you finally can relax a little bit and not have to look at your feet the whole time. But then I really like the contour section after Blockhouse. Obviously, that last climb is really tough; everyone knows how tough Blockhouse is. But then you get to the top, and there's just a few kilometres where it lets up a bit and it's flat. It's not really technical. You can finally get back to some good running again. You've still got a few K to go, but there you're like, "Okay, now..." You come round the side of the mountain, you can see Lion's Head and everything, which is cool, but you're just finally there. You're like, "Okay, it's more or less done. You can just enjoy these last kilometres and all the horrible stuff's done."

Dean: In general, have you considered your relationship to the trails and to the mountain?

Robbie: I mean, that's why we end up doing it: because we like running on trails. We love running up mountains, and that's it. And it's the same every time. Just coming back here for the first time in quite a few months and then just straight back into the normal routes and going around Newlands and then exploring a few new trails and like, "Ah, so good to be back." Just on the trails that you love, and then up Table Mountain and all the different climbs and everything. That's why we do it. We don't do it for... I mean, I like racing. I enjoy that. But most of all, I actually just love running on the mountains. And then doing the sport allows me to do more of that than the average person. So it's the best.

Dean: And are you aware of that need to protect the mountains and lightening your footprint when you're running?

Robbie: And you can really feel that in different areas depending on where you are, like the impact and the number of people that are out there. And then trail erosion and things. And also just the crowding of certain areas. If it's not professionally managed, then they compromise the environment just to try and fit more people in or try to get money for more visitors and things like that.

It definitely does have to be a good balance. Because I think everyone who goes to the mountains appreciates the fact that it's a wild place, and that's why they're going there. And they don't necessarily want to see 10,000 people all crammed into a trail or to be on a trail that's like tarmac to make it more accessible. You have to have trails that are very accessible, but sometimes it can be almost ruined to the point of, "It's no longer a wild place anymore." It's just like built up infrastructure everywhere. And it's just tricky getting that balance, I think. And leaving some areas wild.

Dean: And how do you think we compare in that sense, Table Mountain, to places overseas in terms of mountain conservation and keeping those areas wild?

Robbie: I think it's fairly good. For a start, it's just really hard going anywhere. So if you want to get to the top of Table Mountain, obviously you can use the cable car, but it's so hard covering big distances up there because of the technical terrain. So I think it naturally does mean that there's a lot of areas that feel quite wild.

And then even in Newlands and things, there are so many trails there that there are ones, again, which are pretty unspoiled. And the nature here... compared to anywhere in Europe, it's unbelievable. I mean, you see so many more species. You see snakes and lizards and birds and all sorts, and even Caracals. I've heard people seeing them, and to see something like that so close to a city is really good.

But I think it will be more under pressure in the future. I think it's just trying to make sure that it's managed as best as possible. The best thing you can do is to instruct people about wild places and get them out there to really enjoy it. And then I think people then want to protect it as well, and they appreciate the challenges and everything. So here it is pretty professionally managed from my experience, but obviously I don't know everything going on.

Dean: And what is your experience of the trails and Table Mountain in training versus in the actual race?

Robbie: It always feels harder, I'd say, in training. You're more conscious of all the rocks and all the technical sections. But in the race, you just tend to switch off and run over it really quickly. And then the other thing is, in training, you can really appreciate the views. You stop to have a look, and you look off the edge of one of the mountains, and you see, "Oh wow, there's the ocean just below there. I can't believe how crazy that is." Just looking straight down off the peak and all these things.

Dean: And what's it like being up on Table Mountain by yourself? Sunrise, sunset. How do you describe that feeling?

Robbie: It's pretty special. If you think there are millions of people in the city, but then you're up there and there's almost nobody up there at that time. It's just you on the mountain, and it's so vast. You think, "Oh, it's just this small mountain in the middle of the city," but it's actually like a tiny city surrounding this huge area of mountain. And it's just, I think, really important that there's a place like that close to the city where you can be up there, in a wild area, and it feels so remote. You can see the sun setting over the ocean, all the other peaks. But then in a few K, you're back down to the city again. So it's special.

Dean: Well, good luck. Thanks very much. And good luck with the last bit of training, and excited to see that Adidas Terrex battle taking place.

Robbie: Thanks very much.

Dean: And what is it like when you get feedback from people who have run the race, about how incredible the trails were and how well maintained they were and how easy it was to run and follow the trails?

Michael: That's priceless. I think the more people that appreciate and share their gratitude for the trails that they're able to access as part of the race, the better. And frankly, the more awareness we can drive of those trails is going to lead to more investment, is going to lead to more time, is going to lead to more volunteer hours, which they so desperately need. And more acknowledgement of the fact that we don't have the sport without them.

We don't have the sport without the iconic trails of Table Mountain. We don't have Ultra-Trail Drakensberg without the beautiful and pristine trail network in the Berg. And those are just two examples of the unbelievable trail network we have in this country. And we all have a responsibility, Corporate South Africa included—and RMB's role in this—is to protect that and ensure it's there for future generations to enjoy.

Dean: Every mountain has a voice. And in Cape Town, it sounds like Ryan Sandes. He's run the world's toughest races, but this one, this mountain, is personal. It's where he began, where he returns, and where his story keeps finding new meaning.

Dean: Ryan, welcome back to the Trail Chasers. I want to ask you, what is your earliest memory of Table Mountain?

Ryan: Oh geez. My earliest memory of Table Mountain was a really long time ago. I think it was running with my dad up above Constantia Nek on the Jeep tracks. I must have been six or seven years old. I think my dad was training for the Two Oceans Ultra. So it was quite a while back. But lots of fond memories of Table Mountain growing up.

Dean: Do you remember that feeling of what it felt like? I mean, I think it's something special being on Table Mountain, whether it's running, hiking, or just exploring it.

Ryan: I think as a kid being that young, you just realize there's so much on the mountain. There are so many different opportunities, different trails to go along. It's almost a little bit daunting, but I remember that feeling of actually finally getting up to the dams on top of Constantia Nek, and it felt like a completely different world up there. But then also just that feeling of fulfilment, "Geez, I made it to the top of Table Mountain," was really cool.

Dean: And how has your relationship with the Mountain changed over the years?

Ryan: I think growing up as a kid, I spent a lot of time at the ocean, and I spent a lot of time on Llandudno Beach. I always remember looking up at Table Mountain, and it almost felt quite daunting in a way, or just this massive structure that towered above you. It was only once I started running that I really started exploring Table Mountain. That's been pretty cool for me because it's almost like a whole other world on Table Mountain.

And for me, just being able to be in the city centre and then within half an hour to be on the slopes of Table Mountain is something really special and really unique to Table Mountain and Cape Town. But I guess, growing up, like I said, I spent a lot of time at the ocean, and my grandfather always said it's important to respect the ocean. And I think I've taken that respect onto the mountain.

Just in terms of... for sure, maybe Table Mountain's not the biggest mountain in the world, and I think you get quite tricked into thinking that, because it's so close to the city, that nothing can go wrong. But when you're up there, things change quickly on the mountain side. I think that's been something really important for me to take onto the mountain.

Dean: And do you still get the butterflies feeling on the mountain, even though you've probably run it a thousand times?

Ryan: For sure. It's always really cool being overseas and traveling and then coming home and running on Table Mountain. There's no mountain around the world that feels like home apart from Table Mountain. I think there's something incredibly special about being able to run up Table Mountain and see the ocean. I think for me, being able to see the ocean, it just feels like home and I feel grounded.

Running in the Alps or the Rockies or the Himalayas and you just see mountains around you, it's incredible. But it just doesn't feel like that same comfort of home like Table Mountain feels. So it's really cool to run on Table Mountain. And to be honest, I've been running there for like 18-plus years now, and I'm still finding new trails and new things to do and new link-ups. I think that's what's so cool about the mountains: there are just never-ending opportunities.

Dean: What do you think it adds to a race like UTCT, that running experience on Table Mountain?

Ryan: There's something really unique, as I said, about Table Mountain, and to incorporate that into a race is really incredible. I mean, just the fact that you can start basically on the outskirts of the city of Cape Town, you can start a race and then run all these wild places like Table Mountain and the Cape Peninsula, and then finish back basically just on the outskirts of the city is pretty cool.

I think we are really lucky with what we have on Table Mountain and also just the diversity. Like a race like Ultra-Trail Cape Town, being able to run over Table Mountain and then being able to run along the coastline... if you're running the Ultra-Trail Cape Town 100-miler, getting to explore the deep south... it's just really, really cool. The variety you get. You can get some incredibly technical trails on Table Mountain, and then there's more runnable stuff. So I feel there's a bit of everything. You really get a full experience when you run on Table Mountain.

Dean: Have you ever had a moment on Table Mountain that you were just like, "Wow, this is incredible"?

Ryan: I guess sometimes you do take it for granted, to be completely, completely honest. But there are definitely those moments when you are up there at sunset or sunrise that just... as you say, take your breath away. Moments are just incredibly humbling, and you feel a lot of gratitude being up there. So for sure.

Like I said, for me, the most special place in the world is being up on top of Table Mountain. There's something really incredible about that. The feeling that you get, that you're actually pretty close to a big city, but just being on top of the mountain, you feel so free, so detached from everything. Just being on the mountain and just putting one foot in front of the other, that's all you've got to worry about. I find that's just such an amazing form of meditation for me. I always say I go onto Table Mountain to solve the world's problems. Sometimes our lives can feel overly daunting, and we are, in the modern world, overly connected. But just being able to get onto Table Mountain and detach is just something really magical.

Dean: And what is the feeling like between being on the mountain by yourself, being on the mountain with a group of people, and then obviously being on the mountain in a race setting? How do those feelings differ?

Ryan: They are very different feelings. Being in a race, to be honest, like a race like Ultra-Trail Cape Town with the competition levels, you're head down and you focus on racing. But I think that's why I love mountains. Being able to experience it in a race format, experience it running with good mates and share that experience, or running in a community is really cool. And then also just being out there on your own and, as I mentioned earlier, just really being able to detach and just get into your own head space.

So I think that's what's so cool about trail running, at least for me. I don't see it as just a sport. For me, it's like a way of life, and there are so many different ways to experience the mountain. Even experiencing Table Mountain in summer when it's baking hot and there's no water on the mountain, to experiencing it in winter when it's pouring with rain and there are waterfalls everywhere and it's completely fogged out on top... it's just completely, completely different.

Dean: But do you feel a sense of responsibility to the mountain?

Ryan: I remember one of the very first trail races I ran, it was either Fisherman's Trail Challenge or Hout Bay Trail Challenge, where I remember the t-shirt said, "Leave only footprints." And I think that's so true. I have a son, and I really want him to be able to experience the mountain in the same way that I experienced it, and for his kids and grandkids to experience the mountain in the same way.

Unfortunately, I've been really fortunate to travel around the world, but by doing that and traveling to places around the world year after year, you see that our natural landscapes and mountains and stuff are changing for the worse. So that's really sad to see. So I do feel, I mean, everyone that uses Table Mountain has a responsibility to try and keep it in the same form that they experience it in.

Dean: And in that regard, how important is the work of the Friends of Table Mountain and organizations like that?

Ryan: I've got the utmost respect for the Friends of Table Mountain and the various organizations on Table Mountain. The work they do is absolutely incredible. I don't think they get enough support for what they do. Spending 20 hours a week on the trails on Table Mountain, I get to see firsthand what they do. But I also appreciate that you'll run a trail before they've done maintenance, and it's really treacherous and difficult to run on. And they'll spend time on the trail and really maintain it and make it runnable or usable. So, I mean, I think without them and the various organizations, to be honest, the mountain definitely wouldn't be functioning as what it is today in terms of for people to hike and run and to use it.

Dean: And when people finish UTCT, what do you hope that they take away from that experience on Table Mountain?

Ryan: I really hope that it's a life-changing experience for them. Just to get there and to get onto that start line takes a lot of effort and work and a lot of sacrifices. So that in itself is an incredible achievement. But crossing that finish line... I hope they can take that experience away from them and just realize that, as humans, we are far more capable of achieving stuff than what we think. And if you put your mind to something, you can achieve some really incredible stuff.

So, I hope they can take that experience away. And then also just spread the love and tell people about Table Mountain, Cape Town. I think we've got a really special place, a special city.

Dean: Amazing. Well, thank you very much, as always.

Ryan: Thanks so much. It's really cool to chat.

Dean: Why do you think that it is so important that you have multiple stakeholders all involved with the same goal?

Michael: Because I think we all have a vested interest, and I think that comes with awareness. You realize that these things don't exist in isolation, and they need the support of both public and private and individuals. These things only truly transform and gain the exponential value and investment that they do if everyone's involved.

And so from that perspective, awareness is a major part. Following that, the RMB Ultra-Trail Cape Town event, which drives so much of that awareness, is critical. We want to shine a spotlight on these trail beneficiaries, and we want to shine a spotlight on the people that make it happen.

Dean: What is the change in your thinking when you're focusing on the preservation of Table Mountain and the protection of these spaces, as opposed to purely profits or purely sponsoring a race for what you can get out of it?

Michael: I think there's a corporate social responsibility, as cliche as that sounds, in that corporate South Africa—or corporate wherever you are in the world—has a responsibility to give back as much as they take out. And I think we only have this race and everything that it does for us, and our ability to drive return on investment from our sponsorship, because that trail exists.

And so it is fundamentally critical to not just the race's longevity, but our partnership with the race and the longevity of the sport. Because of that, we feel an obligation, but not just an obligation, a passion to give back to these spaces and make sure that they survive long beyond us.

Dean: And on a personal level, you're obviously deeply invested yourself. How does that further the role of RMB, you being such an advocate for the trails?

Michael: I always joke I'm in the most unfortunate position as a trail runner in Joburg. And so frankly, the day that I can't get on a plane and go and run the beautiful Western Cape trails, or the Drakensberg trails for that matter, will be a very sad day for me, because that is my playground and that's where I find an incredible headspace.

It's quite serendipitous in some respects, my career trajectory, and my experience in the world of sponsorships, which is now teeing on 10-plus years. The combination of my passion for the sport, RMB's passion for the sport, and my experience, together with the, frankly, culture fit between us and the beneficiaries and the race organizers... all of that just comes together in such a magic way. And we're all on the same page. We all have the same vision, and we all have the same goal. And there's something quite magic in that.

Dean: And if there's one thing that you take away in the work that you've done so far, in terms of the Trail Fund and Table Mountain as a place, what are you most proud of?

Michael: A few things. I think the growth of the race and the sport. Importantly on that too, as you well know, we've introduced, together with UTCT, a 16-kilometer race. And I think that the dream is that people find the sport there, that they grow all the way through to the 100-miler.

And a 100-miler is not for everyone, right? You might get to 55K, and that's your sweet spot. You might get to 35K. That's your sweet spot. South Africans, we do push ourselves to the absolute limit, hence why we run such things as 100-milers. But that's a point of pride for me.

If we can look back on this partnership one day and say, "Hey, we did our part in protecting the biodiversity and the trail network, but we also did our part to give people an opportunity to experience those trails and push their limits"... because you take a lot. It's a sport defined by grit and resilience and commitment and discipline, and the life lessons you learn off the back of that are absolutely priceless. And I think we'll look back on the partnership with a great deal of pride as to the, frankly, at the end of it all, the impact we've had on people's lives, as well as the impact we've had on the environment.

Dean: And when people cross that finish line or leave the race or reflect on the race in the week afterwards, what do you want them to feel and to take away in terms of Table Mountain and the trails that they've run on?

Michael: I think we want to heighten that sense of awareness and appreciation of the trails that they've just run on. And we do a lot in the race village and after the fact to communicate exactly that, to say, "Don't take for granted that you're able to enjoy this beautiful space." That frankly, we'd also love them all to sign up for next year.

It is a bug that bites. You definitely cross that finish line, and maybe you're in a bit of pain for a couple of hours, maybe 24 hours, maybe a week. But certainly once the dust settles, both literally and figuratively, you find yourself being drawn back to this event and this race. A, because of the magic of the trail network—and it's hell of a technical, but it's equally as rewarding because of that fact. And B, because it's just such a well-run event and it's got such a strong community behind it.

And that for me brings a lot of repeat customers. And you've also, like I touched on earlier, got this spectrum of events that allow you to wind up your trail running aspirations or to wind them down. Frankly, maybe you start at 100 kilometres, and you want to actually work on some more speed stuff, or you want to test your skills at the 16K, et cetera. You've got that full spectrum to challenge yourself across six different races on varying terrain but still get that same magic of community and environment that the race brings.

Dean: Every step we take on this mountain is borrowed. Borrowed from the land, from the people who protect it, and from those who came before us. Because RMB Ultra-Trail Cape Town isn't just a race, it's a relationship. A relationship between a city and its mountain, between runners and the trails beneath their feet, between sponsors and the purpose they stand behind. For RMB, for Friends of Table Mountain, for athletes like Robbie Simpson and Ryan Sandes, it always comes back to one thing: respect.

Because when you start with the right place, everything that follows has purpose. The mountain comes first, and from that foundation, the people follow.