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Indiewood
A Podcast for Indie Filmmakers
In the world of social media, and fast-paced journalism, knowledge is abound. But with all the noise, finding the right information is near impossible. Especially if you’re a creative working in independent film.
Produced by Cinematography For Actors, the Indiewood podcast aims to fix that. This is a podcast about indie filmmakers and the many hats we wear in order to solve problems before, during, and after production.
Every month, award-winning Writer/Director Yaroslav Altunin is joined by a different guest co-host to swap hats, learn about the different aspects of the film industry, and how to implement all you learn into your work.
"We learn from indie filmmakers so we can become better filmmakers. Because we all want to be Hollywood, but first we have to be Indiewood."
Indiewood
How To Get Into The Room: Unlocking The Doors of Hollywood with Director Jamie Parslow
Can independent filmmaking pave the way to Hollywood success? Join us as we delve into the inspiring journey of Jamie Parslow—director, writer, producer, and cinematographer—who mastered the complexities of the indie film world with his acclaimed short Black Hole. Jamie and Yaroslav discuss their experience and share candid insights into pitching producers, overcoming the challenges of securing funding, and the importance of representation. From industry showcases to educational programs, we explore actionable paths to getting a meeting that can advancing your career.
Jamie and Yaroslav get personal about the mental and emotional hurdles they’ve faced—like tackling panic attacks and navigating solo in social settings, while also diving into the essential role of passion and aesthetics in creative partnerships, and the ongoing effort to cultivate professional connections. As the industry strives for more equity, they discuss the current uncertainties for writers and the growing potential of self-representation. Tune in for an honest, heartfelt conversation about perseverance, authenticity, and the relentless pursuit of creative excellence.
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A Podcast for Indie Filmmakers
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IG: @indiewoodpod
YT: Cinematography for Actors
In the world of social media, and fast-paced journalism, knowledge is abound. But with all the noise, finding the right information is near impossible. Especially if you’re a creative working in independent film.
Produced by Cinematography For Actors, the Indiewood podcast aims to fix that. This is a podcast about indie filmmakers and the many hats we wear in order to solve problems before, during, and after production.
Every month, award-winning Writer/Director Yaroslav Altunin is joined by a different guest co-host to swap hats, learn about the different aspects of the film industry, and how to implement all you learn into your work.
"We learn from indie filmmakers so we can become better filmmakers. Because we all want to be Hollywood, but first we have to be Indiewood."
welcome back to the indie wood podcast, a podcast about making indie films and, uh, many hats that filmmakers have to wear in order to get those films made. Uh, my name is yaroslav altunin. I'm a writer, director, editor and cinematographer and uh, with me this month I have the talented Jamie Parslow, hi, who is a director, writer, producer and cinematographer and, like, fully fledged in all those things. You've done quite a bit of those things in full force.
Speaker 3:I hope so.
Speaker 1:You've gone to film festivals with a movie you've produced. You've gone to film festivals with a movie you've produced. You've gone to film festivals with a movie you've written and directed, and as a day job, you work for a big company in the video game space.
Speaker 3:Yes, shooting for them, yes, I do.
Speaker 1:And so we've been talking all about your film, your short film Black Hole. That did really well in film festivals. That you've done and that's how we met when, when I think the one question kind of that we've talked off off Mike about was how to kind of pursue your career as a filmmaker outside of those two things making a movie and going to a film festival.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Sort of getting into the getting into, I think getting into the room is what we were talking about Sort of like getting to talk with big wigs. And so that's my blind spot.
Speaker 1:And for me from my experience that has always been surrounding feature film. I'm a feature film writer. I've pitched a lot of feature films. I don't do TV and for TV it's a little bit different. Tell me about your experience putting together projects that you aren't really going to shoot yourself, but you really want to go out and pitch it to a producer and get a producer on board. What's your experience been so far? Uh? Not um, I think haven't done that yeah, kind of not really.
Speaker 3:Um, I I think, uh, I, I it was an experience I had some years ago where I did actually get into a room at sony of all places, um, and but the only thing is that it's really funny. It was because of the company that I was working for, so we had a relationship. Luke Crate had a relationship with Sony, and so Starship Troopers had their 25th anniversary coming out, which they also had a sequel movie coming out. And Casper was a friend.
Speaker 1:Casper was dating our friend Jenny at the time, casper Van Dien was the actor from the original. That is correct. Yeah, sorry.
Speaker 3:Buried the lead there, uh, and so it was me and my friend Julian and um, it was really just kind of the two of us spearheading this one a little bit. Um, we were trying to find a way to do a short film because we would do these short films, these monthly short films with with the company um, and trying to find a way to uh parlay the original starship troopers, uh with the new one, because casper had not been in either of the either number two or number three. He was coming into number four, and so we had sort of pitched the idea of doing a short film that would bridge the gap between the two of them.
Speaker 3:And so we were working with Casper and then Ed Neumeier who wrote the original Starship Troopers and Robocop and things like that Great guy, and we had all sort of coalesced and were like, hey, what if we did this short film? So we all went to Sony, we watched the new film, we got an idea about what it was and then we sort of pitched our concept uh, to like a bunch of execs, like a bunch of.
Speaker 3:Sony execs in the room and they apparently loved it and they gave us the go ahead and we were going to do it, uh, and premiere it at um at Comic-Con Hall H, weirdly enough, um, but then the money fell out, uh, as it always does.
Speaker 1:Things are odd to do yeah.
Speaker 3:And I never had an opportunity like that again. So um that was a weird backward way of getting into the room.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Um, like sort of falling backwards into that thing. Not that we had pitched a feature film or anything, but if we had done a good enough job, who knows? You know we could have. We could have been in sony's pocket, we could have been able to do a bunch of things.
Speaker 3:Parlay that that into a bigger product so, um, that's the only time I ever really got a taste of that. Um, I never got a into this, but I used to work on a web series back in the day called fallout, nuka break and, um, and a bunch of those guys before I moved out here had gone actually to sony to go pitch a concept, uh, for a tv show for fallout long before the new one came out okay, um, and that didn't go anywhere but, that's the only other experience I like I've been tangential to in that scenario, and what I've been told is, effectively, you just need an agent and a manager.
Speaker 1:To kind of get through that, I'll share two experiences that I've had, uh, with kind of getting in the into the room yeah one of them is related to that manager agent route, and then the other is kind of my own.
Speaker 3:Doing so, um, yeah, just get repped and then they'll send you a meeting. That's so easy. It's so simple. How do you get repped? I want to know that part first.
Speaker 1:Well, so for me. I graduated from UCLA, from their master's program, and then we have this thing called Got to go to UCLA, something I'm not going to do at 37.
Speaker 3:Go to Harvard, okay.
Speaker 1:Go so. And then we were part of showcase, which is this thing all the students put together, yeah, where it's kind of a screenplay competition. But at the time I think every year is different and for our year at the time, we everybody who attended the festival or the attended the showcase and competed in showcase would reach out to like five to ten judges, and so they would be like we would reach out to production companies, we would reach out to production companies, we would reach out to managers, and this is something they were aware of. So a lot of people from like a lot of really big agencies and production companies read our scripts and judge them. Holy cow, yeah. And so you had readers read. No, no, they read.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, they read like one or two scripts, and so they, they judged them, and so that was yeah that was kind of, uh, you know, parsed into a competition and somebody won and and then so I had the opportunity to win with four other people for my category, which is drama. And so my manager sent me on generals when I, when I got repped and you know we call that a water water bottle tour say that 10 times fast, because they give you, like they'll go, do you want a bottle of water? Yeah, you kind of sit there on the couch with a little bottle of water and so initially, like that got me into the room. Quote, unquote, those conversations.
Speaker 1:No one preps you for those conversations because every conversation is a little different. Some, some are very serious. They're like this is our mandate, this is what we're looking for, what do you have? And it's very kind of like you know, to the point, yeah. And then some people just like sit down, go, what's up, what do you got? No, no, not even what do you got. Oh, what's up? And then this, and then it's like man.
Speaker 3:They want to get like a natural version of like not even no they just want to know how you're doing.
Speaker 1:Oh, so curious. This is like the one meeting that I I still have dreams about, because amblin okay show up, meeting goes great, great Steven. Spielberg's hanging out Right. We sit down and he goes, what's up? And I'm like I don't know what's up with you and I started kind of pitching and I was like dude, no just have a conversation with the guy and it went well and we haven't been in touch since. But great guy, really fun to talk to.
Speaker 1:But, like I, uh, 10 steps so hard I bet so there's a couple meetings where I tend to step quite a bit, yeah, um. But what I learned from those meetings is, when you first go into a general, if you're really lucky to get one, uh, just take that opportunity to make a friend yeah if it doesn't work, don't worry about it. Yeah, even if it's amblin. If if you don't click as a friend, don't worry about it. No, I mean it's amblin if. If you don't click as a friend, don't worry about it.
Speaker 3:No, I mean honestly, that's that should be just how filmmaking is generally. I mean you're gonna be working with these people for potentially the rest of your life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so like friend, yeah, friends. So of the like 10 generals that I went out to on to, I think I'm only in contact with one person oh, very fun and like we get lunch every six months. We chat like we see each other, you know, at bars every now and then Do you buy? Him lunch. No, he buys me lunch.
Speaker 2:It's a write-off.
Speaker 1:And you know, and he asks me what I'm doing, and you know I pitch him some ideas every now and then. He reads everything I send him. And granted, I don't send him a script every week, but like we're friends now, yeah, you know, and um I care about him as a person, yeah, and so that's what brings you back into the room, right, is that friendship?
Speaker 1:and so that's cool. Uh, I'm no longer with my manager, yeah, and so from that experience, from meeting you know a dozen people over the course of 10 meetings only one person still in my life, oh wow, and they're in a really like nice production company. They're still doing stuff. Like he's great, like I love talking to him, I love hearing his ideas and about you know his thoughts about the industry, and so that's one way of kind of getting in the room, get a manager, get wrapped, which we'll circle back to yeah uh, go on generals and try to find a person you connect with on like a really personable level.
Speaker 1:You get movies, you get whatever like just talk with them.
Speaker 3:You know, yeah, that's the thing is that like I like, get me in a room and I can pitch Exactly, I'm so good at that side of the thing I really am and like I do this at work and I do this in general, and I just, you know, talk to my wife, I rant at her about my concepts and she's just like okay, but like there's passion behind it and it's not even about you.
Speaker 3:It's just like it's not even about you or your project you're just excited about something and there's a really fun, natural way to get into those types of things and I always I'm always like man. If I could just just open the door I I I like talking to people and like having conversations with people when it's not like a formal weirdness but and that's, that's always sort of been.
Speaker 3:You know it's. It's like you sort of see in your mind's eye, like I already know, I can just do that part. That's not the hard part. The hard part is like finding your way. It's like thinking about your career path yeah you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Like you don't really know, you can say my career path is bop, a bop, a bop, a bop, a bop. But in this industry I've gone from being you know, I was a union key grip for however many years to being an ad who was almost union at one point to being an editor at an edit house, to being a producer, to being a direct.
Speaker 3:Now I'm weirdly a cinematographer, like yeah, that's not a career path, not no, that's just things you're doing, you're doing things to kind of elevate your craft and so like it's kind of what that feels like it's a sort of like.
Speaker 3:You're just, um, you're feeling it out, but there's no like, and maybe you do have the answer to this, but in my, in my purview, there's never been a like you do this that gets you this, and then you do have the answer to this, but in my, in my, purview, there's never been a like you do this that gets you this, and then you are there and kind of it feels like that when you look back on it because right now, yeah, of course these relationships with these producers.
Speaker 1:Right, looking back on it, I'm like, oh well, I had this meeting, I had this thing, and you know, now I just call them every now and then, be like I have something, yeah you know what I mean and so kind of moving on to the other non-manager thing, and so the other two, two production companies that I meet with regularly, that I've built up a rapport with, I got those meetings with that manager, that's great and to really succeed in that kind of environment where you're not repped, uh, I think the most important thing this feels like a no-brainer is you have a good sample yeah, you know, uh, and then go to screenplay competitions, submit to the blacklist, and so I met with a company, um, the big comic book company, one of the big three, not dc or marvel, um, and I meet with them regularly and we're actually trying to work on a, on a, on a project right now, in the future.
Speaker 1:Uh, I met with them because of the blacklist. I just you know, out of the blue, I was like you know what, let me try this. Um, I submitted a script. It did well, it got an eight, and then you as a writer and I met with them.
Speaker 1:It was, uh, uh, one guy and then kind of I think it was his boss at the time and we talked a little bit about stuff and I was like, hey, I got a pitch for you. Like, let me, let me like, um, you know, come back to you with a pitch. And I pitched and I oh, I haven't choked like that in so long. Uh, they were like we had this whole meeting set up, it was on zoom and I sat down and I go like literally my, my, my throat closed up and then, I.
Speaker 1:I was like my heart was pounding in my chest and I was staring at the screen. I'm like you're either gonna just cry and like fall apart not cry like fall apart completely or you just you own it. Yeah, be a noted, as meditation, people say, and then you move on. So I was like guys, I'm so sorry, I just choked.
Speaker 3:That's important. That's like being honest about how what you're going through. I've had panic attacks and I I've in, not not in this situation. I don't like going to parties alone because I'll get like a panic attack if I don't have like like somebody I know with me.
Speaker 1:I hate going to parties when oh man it and I will. I have turned around I've just straight up been like no good party, I'll see it, I'll like, I'll be like I'm gonna go back in the car, I'm not gonna go there, but yeah, so yeah it's uh, it's good to own it and be like.
Speaker 3:I did that one time and I was just like. I was like hey guys, hey guys, sorry, I was there, I had a panic attack. I turned around. You know, not my, not my stick, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so I pitched it to them and they're like look, we love the idea, but everybody's doing that because it was based on, uh, public domain stuff. And they're like Netflix has four of you know. And so, you know, I I kind of kept in touch with with him and you know, we met again, uh, one-on-one with one of the guys because it was a do initially, yeah, and all we did for like an hour and a half was just talk about movies, that's, talk about the industry, and I I was curious about that. You know, I I was like I'm not going to pitch to you because I don't really have anything. Like I want to learn more about you. Yeah, as a creative, as a producer, I want to learn about what your company's doing. Like, what do you think? Where do you think the industry is heading, and like I'm actually curious about that.
Speaker 1:And so, you know, we just talked to shit for an hour and a half, yeah. And then he's like you know, uh, oh, you know, send me some ideas, right. And I was like cool, yeah, you know, want to work with you. And I was like, yeah, let me like put some stuff together. I put some pictures together. And he was like these are great, but like we have this uh set up here we've done this already and it wasn't successful like I sent him four ideas and they've either done them or someone else is doing them.
Speaker 1:It was, yeah, it was really crazy and then we met again and we just, you know, for an hour and a half we just talked about movies and stuff that's great and and so like. Right now we're trying to kind of get this film off the ground, because I think we really clicked, like as colleagues, as friends, acquaintances, whatever you want to call it, you know. So that's, I think, what's really important about getting into a room again and again and again, as building these relationships with people that you can combat.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I feel, like, uh, I feel like it's partway being an amicable person, obviously, but we talked about it before Passion. Passion about the industry, passion about what it is. You want to talk about Passion, not even just about your project. It's just like you having passion. Passion will get you so much equity in this world that you world that, like you, can just be a total dolt.
Speaker 1:You have no idea what you're talking about but you, you know, you're feeling it, you're excited about something and people like this this person is is going somewhere- I will kind of add to that a little bit, because I've been passionate with some folks and I just don't think our aesthetics clicked and that's yeah, that's fine and, like you know, that's yeah, I'll. Uh, I'd rather that actually yeah and um, having to kind of keep up that relationship was very hard because, I had to kind of meet their energy or their aesthetic or vibe, yeah, and that's.
Speaker 3:You know. Better that you find that out early than than like someone going to get in bed with you and then suddenly you're like hey guys, we don't see that happened with me on a? Um, I won't name the project, but I, I worked on a project and me and the writer just did not click, but we pushed through it and pushing through it led to some not great dialogue and and therefore not great acting and therefore not great, you know, not a great final product.
Speaker 3:We were happy with the visuals, we were happy with with everything except what we wrote yeah, yeah, so and you gotta learn like. Luckily you learn those lessons before you. Hopefully you learn those lessons before you get too big, but you know, but yeah, it's a tough role.
Speaker 1:Well, so you know, there's there's kind of that opportunity that I had through through Blacklist with this production company and then through that same kind of what do you call it? Outlet path. I guess Someone else read my script, so like, coming back to that, you have to have a good sample.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Someone from a production company overseas read my script.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And like that led to a meeting, and then we just shot the shit for an hour, talked about movies, you know, and it was a weird time zone thing because he's in France and I'm in Los Angeles, so it's like 6pm for him it's like 8am yeah, it's a very different kind of vibe because it's, like you know, wrapping up work yeah, and but each other.
Speaker 1:And like there were moments where I didn't talk to him for six months and I reached out to him again. He's like, oh, my god, that's right. Like let me read the thing, let me and it's just building that rapport and it all started from a good sample, that's good, you know, uh, and like letting it out into the world through blacklist, through competitions and through you know, and if it doesn't do well, like it doesn't mean that it's bad. Um, but this also kind of goes into a conversation about notes. But kind of coming back to managers, oh sure.
Speaker 3:You know, before you go. Would you say that going to competitions and and and screenwriting is is worth the squeeze? Sometimes I hear little baby horror stories. Nothing crazy, but just like, just like. Oh, I put all this money into something that nobody read, like you know.
Speaker 1:I won't name the festivals, but when it comes to just your screenplay, I think it's different than if you have a movie. If you have a movie, I think there's a broader range of film festivals to go to. For screenplays. I think that list is a lot shorter. A lot shorter.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think you can kind of name the, the competitions on one hand wow, you know, nickel, um slam dance. I think, uh, I think it does right it I think it's some sort of program for screenwriters.
Speaker 3:They have a program for screenwriters. Yes, I worked on. I worked on one that won the program and then we ended up making a movie out of that, yeah.
Speaker 1:So there's that, there's austin. Austin is fun, but also the outcome maybe isn't kind of as impactful as nickel, maybe it might be um, and that's the the few that I can think of the top of my head, I'm sure there's like one, one or two more that can be, yeah, like a lot of fun and and bringing kind of a lot of momentum for your project down.
Speaker 1:You know afterwards, uh, but yeah, like on one hand, right, that's like four or five, wow crazy. And uh. Beyond that, though, I think blacklist has been a really unique opportunity for some folks. For me was successful, uh, because I got, you know, a really great uh relationship out of that that I really cherish. Um, some people don't. Some people get eights and don't get red and nothing happens yeah, I think it's a lot of luck, which is opportunity means preparation.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. So you've got to be prepared with that. Good, that's my. I think that's my biggest downfall right now is that like I've got one feature with the first draft written and I'm like I like it. It needs the second draft, but I'm working on the next one and I'm just going to make that one instead, and that's a tough. That's a tough thing, but also like don't.
Speaker 1:If you have a draft and you have money to submit to the blacklist, do it. Oh, okay, with a caveat, because right now with ai, like there are allegedly certain folks that submit to the blacklist. Uh, for notes specifically because I feel like I got really good notes for it. Uh, they'll submit to the blacklist and then, um, it feels like the reader used ai and so that's been a bit of a risk um yeah, so I'm gonna try it again with a buddy of mine.
Speaker 1:We're gonna test it out and feel out the waters and see how it unfolds all right, I like I. I did it before. I was a big thing and I got really great notes and I got a meeting out of it. That's's great. Two meetings, so like, boom, there's, there's an, there's a path right there.
Speaker 1:Um, another way is, you know, as you build these relationships at film festivals, you know like connecting the dots between you and another filmmaker and a guy at a production company, right Like there are those relationships you can kind of of explore and sure, taking uh trying to get a meeting with somebody that your friend knows can be a bit more of a nuanced approach yeah, you have to be like.
Speaker 3:Hey, I have a script like watery.
Speaker 1:Yeah and you have to be a little bit more delicate with that, but it's an opportunity you can explore as well yeah, I uh.
Speaker 3:I had a friend recently reach out to me because there's a connection that I have with somebody who, with a team that makes movies, and they were like oh my god, everybody says that I should like send them my script because it's just right up their alley, and I was like, let me go take a look at that first, because I don't want to like. So they reach out to me. They're like can you send my script to them? And I was like I don't feel super great about that, but I'll take a read at your script and I'll see, you know, I'll see if it worked.
Speaker 1:To be fair it was are truly like friends, yeah, like as a as a commodity that you can kind of right uh, that they're not people of value. Um, that you can kind of throw around.
Speaker 3:Yeah, as I said in the last episode, but yeah, it's this thing where, like you want, you need to, you do need to protect it, and and and small anecdote is that the the script good, the pitch was bad. And I was like yeah, I was just like this is a little too too shilly.
Speaker 1:Please change this. And I think you know, thinking of the word value, I think I think you need to kind of think about it in a way not from the perspective of your career or what you can achieve, but like the value you bring to a friendship and the value you you get from somebody as a friend, you know absolutely like that is the cornerstone of any like production, any film, any like sure, yeah, there are films out there, in the studio system maybe, or you know elsewhere that are made with just a transactional thing.
Speaker 1:Here's money, make a movie boom, but I I from my experience in any film space, a majority, if not all the films are made based on this relationship or friendship. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Without a doubt. I think that that I think you're absolutely. You hit the nail on the head there. You know that's it's nothing without friends. If, if, if it used to be that you would make stuff, uh, just via their value and the transactionalness of it. I feel like that's sort of gone a little away now, and it really is like how you vibe with everybody else in a room and I'm this is not black and white. I know that there are still situations where this definitely isn't the truth, but um, but I find it more and more that we we're getting rid of the old guard and we have been for like five to seven years which is that that old school way of saying oh, you're the pa, shut up and give me my coffee exactly, or this actor brings in a certain you know like yeah weight that can fund your film or make or break it in the box right and that's sort of like that.
Speaker 3:Like you know, you're only worth the value that you give me and not so much that that's sort of dying out a little bit. I hope and hopefully that the this generation and the next generation are like hey, we just want to make this an equitable place for everybody to succeed and have fun and tell stories and have a good time doing it is. I think that's the way of the future and that's the way that movies not only uh, can be fun to make, but better and movies can be made better because we can be honest, we can be truthful, we can say this doesn't work.
Speaker 3:And hey, buddy, like I know you're trying to do this, but like you know what, if you have, you thought about this way, instead of just you know, noting something into the ground by like 15 different?
Speaker 1:you know exactly if you start, if you can start a conversation with hey, buddy, you're doing something great yeah, you're on the right yeah yeah, you're on, you're on the right path. And and uh, speaking of paths, you know, coming back to um, finding an agent and finding a manager, you know, five years ago, uh, the advice would have been different, you know than it is now, because I feel like now nobody knows what's happening.
Speaker 1:Nobody knows what's happening in the production companies, nobody knows what's happening in the studios we don't know if we're ever going to work again yeah, but they just don't know what's happening and, and you know, yes, stuff is still getting made, but I I think we're still trying to find the industry as a whole still trying to find their footing in whatever this new post-dreamer space is.
Speaker 3:It's kind of like sort of crumbling. I don't want to call it imploding, but it's definitely like. The corners are crumbling here, and there the sort of like the footing of the pillars are sort of just like you know, we're seeing cracks in the facade, but that doesn't mean that this stuff is going to stop. It never will stop, it never can stop but what you know what that means for living and working in the industry. You might create a wealth gap. There might be a wealth gap problem there or uh it's.
Speaker 1:It's gonna be interesting to see how it unfolds but you know, five years ago, I would have been like write a great sample. You know, take it to festivals, you know, get it into the hands of a manager, an agent, and they'll read it and if it's good, they'll kind of believe in you enough yeah to rep you now. Even if you have a great sample, they might not know what to do with it. They don't need writers right now you know, and so I you know.
Speaker 1:I think, if you are trying to get repped now in 2024, 2025, okay, 2024, let's just say for the next six months, I don't think you need to, I don't think you need a rep.
Speaker 3:Was that writing, though? Yeah, or is that like Specifically for writing? Specifically for writing? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't think you need a rep, even for you know a film Like go pitch a producer. We can become our own reps. I think for the time being I'm sure it'll all change in six months to to kind of find their own.
Speaker 3:I will say so. My wife works in the marketing space or the advertising space, and I will say that in order for a director to get in the room, they have to be wrapped. Well, I think that's kind of commercial space, I think it's a little different yeah.
Speaker 1:You know I'm more familiar with like narrative stuff. I see that because there's a lot of like reward, I guess would be the right word. Sure, for commercial work. You know you get in there, you do two days, you're out, everyone gets a. You know a boatload of money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, at least you know for the most part yeah for the most part it used to be like that, maybe not not so much yeah um, you know, but like, if you're looking for commercial work, yeah, that's different, though, you know, I feel like the commercial spaces is definitely um unaffected by what's happening with the, with the no, I don't.
Speaker 3:I mean yeah, it's. Yeah, it's the oldest, it's the oldest job in the world yeah, advertising yeah um random question um how often do you are you writing a feature film, a new feature film, that's so.
Speaker 1:That's, that's the tough part, right, for me that's a loaded question, yeah because, uh, you know after you completed I I the last year has been tough because I've been pitching a lot and you know, uh, life kind of got in the way and like I'm still writing and kind of doing stuff but. I haven't completed a film since last year, but I've written shorts. You know, I've written a couple shorts, so that's kind of how many have you written in your time? In my entire career how many scripts are written?
Speaker 3:yeah, features features one, two, three, four, five, six, maybe, maybe ten, I think ten and some pilots are in there too and then, like you know, uh, floating at two right half a dozen.
Speaker 1:You know well, I went to grad school and so they, they really made us right. They make you yeah and you say like what I liked about the program is they made? You write a script in 10 weeks.
Speaker 3:So that's why I'm doing this, this, this Sundance program thing, cause it's, it's just kicking my butt and being like you got to meet these deadlines.
Speaker 1:Yeah, having deadlines is really, really important. Yeah, um, deadlines are good. I, they keep you focused on the story instead of kind of getting lost in the creative opportunities. But in the end, everything is built upon a good sample. If you write a good script, it doesn't have to be like the most amazing script ever. It just has to be a good script that people enjoy reading. Yes, that'll get you in the room, got it? Regardless if it's a manager, if it's a producer, if it's a script competition, whatever the room is for you, it starts with a good sample.
Speaker 3:I was lucky enough to, because I read a lot of scripts as opposed to writing them.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I was sharing a script with my friend and she sent me hers and I sent her mine and we were like let's just like, let's do the exchange, and this is Hair of the God. And I sent her and she gave me the script and I was just like you know what dude. The note that I want to give you is that this feels like a movie. Yeah, it feels like a good script.
Speaker 3:It's written right. It's written well. Wow, it feels like you did, did the right work and she goes. She was like can I? She told me on my end. She was like it was a breath of fresh air to read a well put together script. That obviously needs some bits of work, but like, doesn't make me put this thing down in like five pages.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean, and that's genuinely rare.
Speaker 3:I will get into a script and be like I can, I'm not doing this. Yeah, you know, and that's it's kind of surprising, but that's a skill I think you develop as you Genuinely rare. I will get into a script and be like I'm not doing this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know. And it's kind of surprising, but that's a skill I think you develop as you constantly write. And you know you start a story and you end a story, and I think that's something you pick up with consistency, and so if you feel like you are going to write a screenplay for the first time and it's going to get you in a room, it might it, just might, because everybody has one script in them yeah but you know, more often than not it won't.
Speaker 3:No, probably not, and especially if you haven't done the, if you haven't done the the, you know, if you haven't done the soul searching and the work sometimes what we do is as artists, as we go. No one can tell me how to do the thing that I want to do. Yeah, and then you, and then you find yourself midway through page 25 and you're like what am?
Speaker 3:I doing yeah, and then you're like, oh, I didn't read how to do this, I didn't learn how to do this, I didn't like exercise the, the muscle enough. And then you don't know when to sort of um, push through or to, or what things you have to do in order to get it right yeah, you know what I mean. That's's really really important.
Speaker 1:Speaking of getting it right, when we read each other's work and when we talked about scripts and movies, we had a very different outlook on endings, and I'd love to talk to you more about that but, I, think we'll have to end this episode for now and then come back next week and talk about endings ending movies, ending scripts Because I think we both have a unique point of view that's vastly different, but both are wrong, right.
Speaker 3:Right Wrong. We're both wrong. Yeah, we're both wrong. Thank you for coming on the pod Jamie.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:And thank you for everyone for listening. We'll see you next week. Bye, bye. Thank you for joining us at the CFA Studio for another Bye-bye at cinematographyforactorscom. Cinematography for Actors Institute is a 501c3 nonprofit. For more information on fiscal sponsorship donations because we're tax exempt now, so it's a tax write-off and upcoming education, you can email us at contactatcinematographyforactorscom. Thanks.