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Indiewood
A Podcast for Indie Filmmakers
In the world of social media, and fast-paced journalism, knowledge is abound. But with all the noise, finding the right information is near impossible. Especially if you’re a creative working in independent film.
Produced by Cinematography For Actors, the Indiewood podcast aims to fix that. This is a podcast about indie filmmakers and the many hats we wear in order to solve problems before, during, and after production.
Every month, award-winning Writer/Director Yaroslav Altunin is joined by a different guest co-host to swap hats, learn about the different aspects of the film industry, and how to implement all you learn into your work.
"We learn from indie filmmakers so we can become better filmmakers. Because we all want to be Hollywood, but first we have to be Indiewood."
Indiewood
Mastering The Creative Pivot: From Documentary Dreams to Tribeca Triumph with Gene Gallerano
In this episode, Emmy-award winning producer Gene Gallerano recounts how he transformed setbacks into opportunities by reimagining his feature documentary about mentor Austin Pendleton into a short film, ultimately landing a spot at the prestigious Tribeca Film Festival. Gene dives deep into the emotional and creative challenges of documentary filmmaking, drawing inspiration from the late Philip Seymour Hoffman, and offers insights on the resilience needed to succeed, the importance of instinct, and the art of finding the right platform for your work.
In a candid discussion about personal growth, Gene reflects on his transition from acting to producing and directing, as well as the profound lessons he’s learned from industry mentors. He explores the blend of narrative and documentary elements in his work, offering listeners a glimpse into his unique artistic vision. The episode closes with an examination of the balance between artistic freedom and business acumen, as well as the role of social media in uncovering hidden talent, making this conversation a must-listen for anyone navigating the indie film scene.
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A Podcast for Indie Filmmakers
More on:
IG: @indiewoodpod
YT: Cinematography for Actors
In the world of social media, and fast-paced journalism, knowledge is abound. But with all the noise, finding the right information is near impossible. Especially if you’re a creative working in independent film.
Produced by Cinematography For Actors, the Indiewood podcast aims to fix that. This is a podcast about indie filmmakers and the many hats we wear in order to solve problems before, during, and after production.
Every month, award-winning Writer/Director Yaroslav Altunin is joined by a different guest co-host to swap hats, learn about the different aspects of the film industry, and how to implement all you learn into your work.
"We learn from indie filmmakers so we can become better filmmakers. Because we all want to be Hollywood, but first we have to be Indiewood."
welcome back to the indywood podcast, the podcast about making independent film and the many hats we have to wear in order to get those films made. With me this month I have the wonderful, the talented gene Gallerano. Welcome back for another episode, episode two specifically.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Last week, we talked about your journey throughout your entire career, and we landed on this idea of opportunity and being courageous enough to take the opportunity, just enough to take the opportunity. You talked about a film that you made about your mentor, austin Pendleton, pendleton, austin, pendleton, austin, pendleton, austin, pendleton, ap. Yeah, and how you created this amazing documentary feature that got rejected from every film festival you submitted to. How many film festivals did you submit to?
Speaker 2:I don't know a lot though I mean like did you submit to I don't know a lot I mean like probably 50, okay, that is a lot we might have gotten into something that was like online, like that my dad ran or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he made a film festival, you know.
Speaker 2:But you don't like, then I was, you know. Then it's like that whole thing of do we let it play that the premiere?
Speaker 1:The Ohio Dad Film Festival.
Speaker 2:Ohio for dads.
Speaker 1:Well, you had that film and you did a creative pivot where you looked at it and you were like this just isn't working. And so you cut it down into a short film. And then that got into Tribeca, which is awesome. You went from Dad's for Ohio Film Festival to Tribeca in New York, which is a huge feat. So congrats on that. But I want to talk a little bit about that creative pivot, because when we were talking in prep for this series, for this podcast, you mentioned something like finding the right not only the right festival, but the right way to pitch a film, because every film festival is looking for something unique for their own, you know, and it could change from year to year.
Speaker 1:But also, every project wants to be something that you may not know until you actually make the project. For example, starring Austin Pendleton. There we go. Uh, that film wanted to be a short, you know. So I wanted to talk to you about your experiences having this creative pivot. So let's start with with you know, to kind of recap uh, starring Austin Pend, austin pendleton. Uh, and, and tell me about like that moment where you were like I have to change what this is. How did that come about and how did that feel? Because sometimes it feels a little bit like you're cutting off a part of yourself because you're changing something you've created and you, you left a lot of material on the floor because you made it a short film. So how do you come to that decision and how do you deal with that fallout?
Speaker 2:You gauge your levels of depression on how much you've hit your head against the wall and then you decide do I have it in me to go one more time and see if someone's going to throw out a mat before I hit the wall? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:No, that was, that was. I mean, look, just, we made a feature. It had some of the most amazing actors of all time saying amazing, beautiful, profound things about this man, about the arts, about a life in the arts, about careers, about what it took. You know, they were great also because they weren't talking about themselves. They're talking about this figure that they all love, and so we built this thing and, you know, ultimately it was. I think there is merit to the, the feature. I think it's, and I think, like a lot of people who are studying, acting and trying to understand the arts in that kind of way would find a lot of value in it. Um, but I think for, like festivals in particular, which, which is a whole different beast, you know, it's not an educational forum in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2:It's not like a university, college, university library. You know that you go study Uta, hagen and starring Austin Pendleton If you're granted the time, which of course we were, because when you're making like movies and projects, it's like finding an apartment you got space, money and location, location, right, yeah. And so if you don't have money, you got time, and that's the big thing that you're gonna have is you're gonna give yourself time, because you're gonna have to have everybody working for free, basically. And so you know, with something like that, it was like I knew there was something there, I just didn't know what it was. And so I think a lot of people might have quit on it and been like I guess that's it, let's put it on YouTube or whatever, and I was like it's too good to do that, we just haven't figured out what it is. And I don't know where it came.
Speaker 2:I think it was just me being stubborn, me wanting it badly enough, me feeling an obligation to like our team and David, my co-director, and to Austin, who had opened up so much of himself and his. You know, people weren't going to bat and doing the like, doing interviews for this movie because of me. They were doing it because of their love for Austin. And so I felt a real responsibility to all of them as well. And I mean I've been there on the other end where I've made movies and you're you know you can't crack it and you feel that obligation. And you know, sometimes being a like a director can be the loneliest job on the planet, especially in the indie realm, because there's a moment on every movie where you are all alone with it and you're like if I quit right now, this movie dies, like I am the only thing keeping it alive at this moment. And so you have to check in with yourself and say, like what is, what's the purpose of it? What is this?
Speaker 2:And for us, a big purpose was to share austin's story and share the, the, the values and the kind of themes and the ideas beneath it, because it was. It wasn't about a character actor is how you have a career in the arts. It was about how you approach the world as an artist, about how you approach the arts. And so at the same time, I'm like, dealing with this material that is telling me like you can't give up. You can't give up, you have to keep going, you have to keep finding a way and this is a man I love he put me in the first big play I ever did in New York and I studied with him forever and I was in a movie with him and then he put me in the biggest play I was ever in in New York and I loved this man. I loved him.
Speaker 2:I felt a big responsibility and I felt a responsibility to the project and there's nothing more heartbreaking than going out on the limb for your projects in an indie capacity, on the indie film, and telling everybody, all your loved ones, all your friends, all your community, I'm making this movie. I'm making this movie and you make the movie and then it fucking falls to a the saddest death of all time and people are like what happened to your movie? And you're like I don't know, I can't, I don't know if it's, I'm a fraud, it's a disaster.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I can, so I didn't want that to happen and I knew I had something and so I don't know. I was like I can't quit on this, was it?
Speaker 1:instinctual, like. Did you feel that? I guess on some level it was instinctual because you had this emotional history with Austin and you needed to get that story out and you saw all those informational tidbits that everyone provided about him and about the arts. So I feel like you know, on some level, on a gut feeling, you knew that that needed to be told. But from a technical standpoint, if you could think back, was there any? Was it like just some moments too long were there? Was there a double beat that you needed to delete? Like what stuff ended up on the floor? Is it something you develop over time as like an instinctual thing?
Speaker 2:Maybe. I mean, I hadn't really made a documentary so I didn't know, I had no idea about how you do it. I just knew that there were some scenes that were awesome and really fun and played and popped and I was like that's exciting and that's like an emotional scene and that's an important. That's like about where Philip Seymour Hoffman's like this is the discovery of Philip Seymour Hoffman, like this is the discovery of philip seymour hoffman, and like what an influential figure and that's like a, a gem, that's something that everybody, like you know.
Speaker 2:That's philip seymour hoffman's like a family favorite. Me and my sisters and my mom quote every movie he's ever been in. Like I was like this makes sense to me. This needs to be there.
Speaker 2:But maybe this thing on like going down into 17 broadway shows and it's, like you know, meandering, and maybe it's just more interesting to a very small amount of people, I think you do have to hone that. I think you do know it. I mean, something I've learned from working with really awesome filmmakers is there is a big instinctual part of it. There's a part of it that's their voice, that comes through and that's what they're interested in. I think I've learned recently that comes through and that's what they're interested in. I think I've learned recently like I care a lot less about exposition. I care about feeling like, especially when you're shooting like documentary stuff, I'm like give me the feeling, don't give me this info. That's probably the same in narrative fiction. Like you have to. You have to break out some stuff so that people can go on the ride, but they don't go on the ride for information yeah, they don't care about every step of the way, as long as it's exciting and electric, you know they'll go with you.
Speaker 2:When you break down some awesome movies, you're like they don't give you anything.
Speaker 2:You have no idea who any of these people are, but you feel them, you know who they are immediately you know. So I think it's a combo of that. I think it's there's a stubbornness, just as an artist and for all my own personal baggage, of like not wanting to let some great idea go because I knew it was a great idea and I knew I had what I had. I just didn't know how to tell it. I think we had the luxury of and very few people have this, a lot of indie people do because, like I said, time you make something, it takes a certain amount of time.
Speaker 2:You know that took like six years maybe and to get to the feature film and then it you submit it to these festivals and you wait for a certain amount of months. You stop thinking about. You think about like I'm gonna. What am I gonna look like at sundance?
Speaker 1:and all that my get my white linens cleaned.
Speaker 2:Get some white Lenin's, but it lets you stop thinking about it. You're not getting caught in the details of everything. You're not holding on to all your darlings that you were fighting for. You don't even remember what half of them were at that point, and so then you re-look at the movie and I was like I think it was just a gut check thing.
Speaker 2:And I said okay, it's not working, Let me look at it and see what they might be seeing. And I think, if you have the luxury of that, like when you write a script uh, some playwright told me, like they, he loves to write a draft and throw it into a drawer for three months and not look at it and pull it out, because then he can see what's actually there yeah, I feel like that's where a lot of my work pops is.
Speaker 1:I write it, I, I rewrite it, I do five drafts of it and then I just let it go like it just disappears from my life, and then when I come back to it I reread it like oh, that's right, I wrote that. And then I have to go back and kind of cut things out and, honestly, some, some of these projects took a long time to get to the point where I'm like that scene doesn't belong, that scene is different, that scene wants to be something else or like Rick Pollitt and Cat on a Hot Tin Roof.
Speaker 2:He's like I'm just waiting for that click and you gotta give, you gotta allow the time to like find it's way into your system and your soul and let go of certain things and just see what the ahas, the clicks are, and I think that's important. And a lot of times you don't have the luxury of time and nor maybe, maybe you don't want to face the honesty of it. I don't know. It's also painful, like what if you wrote a piece of shit, like that's also tough.
Speaker 1:True, I've written some garbage, I made some garbage, you know yeah, there are some films that I never finished editing because I saw it and I was like this, I had that gut check, was like this isn't worth my time. I'm not saying anything. I've learned from this. This is a nugget for me, but this doesn't belong in the world. Yeah totally, and then it's just sitting on a hard drive somewhere. There's a shot that maybe might end up in my reel you know.
Speaker 2:Just it's going to be out in the world. Um, I think, listen, I think that's also a really good problem to have. I think you're really lucky if you have a body of work that is varied, and sometimes you took the risk and it didn't. It didn't work. I mean, if the biggest stars in the planet can have big bombs, so can we.
Speaker 2:I mean it'd be nice to have big bombs, Like I do believe that you need to. You know, you hear a lot of people say, like I learned the most from my failures. Well, those were typically successful people who are talking about learning the most from their failures.
Speaker 2:I do believe that. I'm a firm believer. You need to success to learn from as well. I think it's it's. You learn just as much from succeeding um, and having that and being like okay, I have, I can trust in something. Arts are real difficult, you know. You have to gut check yourself a lot like and say like is this real, is this not? You know it's like talk about killing your darlings and it's a really difficult. People, the best in the business can do it and they're ruthless and they're just like it's gone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting. You, you mentioned successes and failures, because I feel like, if you can do, yeah, one film or one project, a play, for example, or a book, whatever it may be, and it's successful, and then you go, cool, I'm going to do the exact same thing, that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be successful. It could be the exact same film, just different, better, whatever, and it could fail because, like you said, there's nothing clear about the arts. It's such a clear about the arts, it's such a ethereal art form that needs instinct.
Speaker 2:I think to function. You know um, I hope that makes sense. Yeah, we got ai for that.
Speaker 1:Rinse, repeat, right, exactly, make me sequel of popular movie b starring austin still starring, austin Pendleton Right.
Speaker 1:So you've pivoted with that and you've learned a lot from that film starring Austin Pendleton. How have your recent projects been affected by that growth? Like, have you as a director because you're directing a couple films and you're producing a couple more documentaries and features how have you brought those lessons into these current projects? Are you now kind of setting up yourself for that moment where you're going to be like here's the knife, here's the scalpel, let's get to cutting. Or are you waiting for those moments to come before you start to kind of, you know, know, think about where you're going to cut?
Speaker 2:I just did a big tear of producing for what I truly think are, like some of the best documentary filmmakers on the planet. Um, and well, like I think, no matter what field, if you get to work with master crafts people and you are an intelligent human being, you will observe it, you'll take in as much as possible. I think if you do that which you should do, no matter what aspect of life, you should always be doing that. But I think if then you have any kind of talent of your own, you're gonna eventually, you're gonna take all of that and you're gonna say what's mine? And so, um, now I'm directing, um, yeah, like all the, I'm not just producing anything, I'm just directing all the projects. So now I'm directing, yeah, like all the, I'm not just producing anything, I'm just directing all the projects that I have. And what's been really exciting for me is seeing my voice and North Star bubble up and saying like, oh cool, this is what that person would do. I'm going to, I, I'm gonna do this, but I know, like, again, when you work with master craftspeople, um, you know what excellence is and you know what it isn't, and so I think, like, a very beautiful thing is where I used to force things in the past. Now I'm like it's not worth it, this isn't gonna this isn't, this isn't gonna work. Let's not waste our time, let's just wait and a lot like we'll find out what it is. Sometimes you gotta muscle it through, you know, but I think that's something that's been interesting.
Speaker 2:And like I come from, uh, I, I, you know, as a kid I would watch movies and dream about them and I love movies. Like it's one of the best places in the world is going to a movie theater, getting lost in those stories. Yeah, um, I cellularly see that in my kids, you know, and the way they talk about movies, that they have the same thing and that's exciting. Um, especially my daughter, she totally gets it. She talks about main characters supporting characters like you see that, and I'm like I love that. But you know, I have I came from a narrative, like a fiction background, and I came from acting and I came from having all these different roles inside of me. And then I go look at um documentary and my favorite filmmakers, a lot of them shoot like it is a fiction film, like that's, that's, that's what they do and um, that's what I was doing with them and and um.
Speaker 2:So I don't see like a big dividing line in it in a way yeah but I definitely feel like a style that's mine there and I'm like, oh, but I I feel better like doing like maybe I feel some people don't talk to their characters ever and don't ever direct it. They just do pure verite kind of thing where they just follow these people and I'm I'm a little different than that and that's like my style and I like talk to them and like what if we did this?
Speaker 2:or like give them you know, and I like think about it and curate it and I think that comes from the fiction background and this is for documentary work yeah, and and and like I think all of the I, it, all kinds of it, all kind of blends together and you approach it all and you're taking, you're pulling from your grab bag, I think, similar like to raising a kid. You start pulling out of your bag all the lessons you think you've learned. Now, of course, they rearrange all of that, throw it. It's complete abandoned chaos. But you're pulling all the things that you've learned and trying to apply it. And it's the exact same thing when you're making a movie is you're pulling the things out that you've learned.
Speaker 2:You're like sometimes, like I have a couple teams and I have a couple younger people on the team. They're immensely talented and awesome, but they haven't all the experience yet and they haven't had all the opportunities yet, and I'm like okay, cool, I was like I do this, I know this works. This is what the best do. If you want to hit that, this is what you do. This is it.
Speaker 2:It's inarguable, the proof is there. And it's like I'm trying to do the same thing in terms of I know if you do this something, it will yield something. And if you go after it, and I know like and I, of course, have my own personal style on all of them, whatever they are. I come from a very like hey, I'm gene, this is my story. I'm gonna ask you to share uncomfortable stuff, especially documentary, but I'm gonna be there with you and like I don't get a pass and so I hope you trust me and that is gonna cost both of us in a way. And of course, they're in the movie and it's a very different story I'm not like that's a naive thing to be like, oh, share with me like that's naive.
Speaker 2:But I try every way possible like I'll treat you like I would treat myself or my family, you know, like you just find your approach and I think that works for me you said something about kind of having younger folks on your team and telling them like I've been through this roller coaster, just trust me on this.
Speaker 1:Where's the line between letting people make their own mistakes and then trying to navigate them down a path that you know is more successful than the one they're heading down, like you see them making a mistake, you're like no, no, let's pivot here, just trust me. But when do you let them go and make that mistake? Because that's how you have to learn, coming back to, you have to learn from your failures and your successes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I have a lot of trust in the team and I have a hopefully a trust in when they go down the wrong path. It will hopefully not be a total disaster and we'll still yield something. I mean, I think that's what you do when you hire people you know, and that's why people work with the same people over and over, cause they have that same faith that like they have the same taste, the same style, the same vision.
Speaker 2:They like understand what you're going after and like, when they go after other things, they might yield something really fascinating. So I bet on them. Like I bet on them, I mean I'm not an overbearing director. I mean I get certainly OCD and dialed on certain things. I'm like this must be done this way, like inarguably must happen, or else we do not have X, Y, Z, and like that's the point of this can you give an example of that?
Speaker 2:like if you just stand in one spot for the whole day, nothing, I'm that's not going to be useful to us. That is some other person's movie. There are amazing movies where they do that, but we're not doing that. I don't know. Sound like? I mean, I have a lot of ocds about it. You know where I start thinking about sound and I lose my. I'm like sound, sound, sound like sound mix or sound design I mean I don't know.
Speaker 2:I feel like a lot of them are very personal things too for the people I work with.
Speaker 1:What's your voice and something you've developed over the course of a long career, you know, as an actor, as a director, as a producer, as a writer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I should say this though no-transcript you like start and you like give them a little. Be like, hey, I would think about this or think about this when you're in that situation or if you just stay there. You know it, know it limits this, like start incorporating that and think about it. We like share lots of references. I'm like this could be really cool. Let's look at these movies and be like, aim for that for a little while and see where you find the middle ground. You know, and a lot of it is people like people need opportunities to shine.
Speaker 1:That's it Like there is plenty of space for everybody to shine. It's hard to get there, but yeah, you know, I think you hit it on the head it's not independent film, it's dependent film, because I think, more so in a place where your budget's really tight. Your time is tight. You know you're, you're pouring heart and soul into this. You don't have a lot of support. You have to depend on your team and everybody around you and and really make sure you have support to really kind of get the project across the finish line, which even then, when you do, you might need to cut into a short film.
Speaker 2:You still might have to muscle it through and it might not be fun at all and it might be a lot of lonely hours. I mean, listen, heavy is the head right Like you want it, you got to earn it.
Speaker 1:It is tough and it's a lot of work and, like allegedly, it's worth it Do you feel now, after a pandemic, after NYU, after getting rejected from so many film festivals and having so many successes and after everything you've learned, do you think it's worth it?
Speaker 2:Well, I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't. Or I'm just backed into a corner and.
Speaker 2:I don't know how to do anything else. I mean, think about, let's reverse it. How long would it take me to get to a spot where I could set the table in any other field, true? So it kind of made my bed, you know, I got to roll with it, yeah, but it's the it's, it's exciting, of course. I mean, I think about, I think about the story and everything, and that's, that's exciting. And there's too many. I'm I'm, I'm excited out. Right now I have four projects that I'm working on and that's a shit ton and it's totally. I'm underwater in my brain all the time. But I love all four of them. They're different and it's only four and I'm not like anything. Nothing else is coming to me because they, they're different and it's only four and I'm not like anything. Nothing else is coming to me because they all need the time.
Speaker 2:And it's like fine, I don't have to. I'm not playing spaghetti ideas.
Speaker 1:You know there's already stuff stuck to the wall.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's exciting and nice, and like I can just focus on those and they're all. They're all different and and so like I'm having to conjure up ideas and paths for all of them, they all that's like a, you spend a lot of time.
Speaker 2:I was talking to somebody yesterday about like the business versus the art and I was like it's way better to be a business person. There's a lot of artists. There's a lot of artists you never hear about, they never get a chance because they don't have any of the business acumen or like they don't. They don't get put in a place to succeed by business people.
Speaker 1:A lot of talented, talented artists and I think through the wonders of social media wonders I put in quotes we can see a lot more of those folks because they can put their art out there. A lot of amazing singers, photographers, filmmakers that never would have gotten to see the light of day, but now we can.
Speaker 2:But you're right, they might not ever succeed even though they're incredibly talented, because they don't have the business acumen well, it's just a part of it and it's something you have to work through and some people are really like again, I keep saying like the voice. So you're like enter north star. Some people never just uncover it yeah or they chase their tail looking for it.
Speaker 2:And you cannot control it. It just happens when it happens and like when it does, it feels so I mean assuming it leads to more work and like whatever you value as success and worth and hopefully you can make a living and doing all that stuff and obviously chase your wildest dreams. You know which, which I mean. Let's not pretend everybody wants their wildest dreams, but you're very lucky if you get the opportunity to express that voice.
Speaker 2:I was talking with my casting director on this fiction film I was working with and we were talking about the hilarity of being typecast and we were just laughing because he's a genius and he's been in forever. Shout out Ross Meyerson. He was like we're just talking. I said the best part of typecast is cast. Yeah, cause you're in, you're working.
Speaker 2:Yeah, holy shit, you got a niche People hire you consistently, so much that they're like I want the Yarrow, I want the Gino you know the uh, the, the Bruce Campbell, you Bruce Campbell to do Bruce Campbell things.
Speaker 1:You know you want who's another character actor? That's always like.
Speaker 2:Austin Pendleton, austin Pendleton.
Speaker 1:Bob Wallace.
Speaker 2:Wallace Shawn, yeah, like Bob Balaban. Yeah, one thousand, there's a million of them, you know. Joan Cusack, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1:So I guess the lesson might be is sometimes you don't need a creative pivot. Sometimes you just need to stay in your lane if you're a typecast.
Speaker 2:You know, I heard that phrase a whole lot. Like being a multi, it was really difficult for me to be. I had a lot of agents and managers be like pick a lane and stay in it and I was like I can't, I just am too interested and I'm not the person who does well being like I'm just going to study acting. I mean, I dedicated. You know, there's a time where I was watching a movie, reading a play a day.
Speaker 2:Like I put in my hours and but I'm not the person who can just sit around and wait. It just doesn't work for me. I get dangerous to myself, you know, and I make bad decisions and I'm like it's, it's just not. It's not a great way to, it's not for me and everyone is different. But I would hear that stay in your lane. I was like I just can't do it, I'm sorry, and maybe that cost me, maybe that cost me, I don't know, but I kept doing it and eventually but you know, maybe I hadn't found my way my lane yet and right now I mean I'm, I continue to refuse to pick one. Maybe that's to my demise, I don't know yeah proof is.
Speaker 2:We'll see when I'm gone it worked or not.
Speaker 1:we'll look back at our careers and at the end of it all and be like, okay, well, that was the lane. But you know what? It doesn't necessarily mean you can't have multiple lanes. You know what I mean and like you're doing, I think, with multi-hyphenates in general, we stay in our lane when things are successful, but it doesn't mean that we can't have multiple lanes. We walk the 405, the 101 I change lanes all the time I hit that hov.
Speaker 2:When I can, jv hov yeah I'll hit it whenever, whatever lane is necessary, traffic is the problem you gotta, you gotta navigate it and like as silly as that is, like that's, that is a career.
Speaker 2:You know, there's a million. There's a million other things that are in your way. Like, think about everything it takes to get a movie made. There are one million dominoes it takes to fall. Let's not even talk. My, my new thing is like I tell my team, so I'm like, let's worry about making a good movie. You know how hard it is to make a good movie. I mean a good movie. Anybody watching like, oh man, that's a good movie. You know, let's greatness. Sure, of course, always the aim everything. Get my linens ready, you know.
Speaker 2:But like a good, good movie is really difficult really difficult and takes so many things to come together and I think that you can't negate that and like that's a big part of the whole process is like try to get good at what you're doing and see. You know, sometimes you hear like you just weren't good enough, like or your movie just wasn't good enough, or your audition, or your, whatever your stuff, it just isn't good enough, and that is deeply painful I have been there, it is yeah deeply and especially the arts is so much of you out there in a way, and it feels so personal.
Speaker 1:It's not like you're which you're selling your widget portfolio. You know I'm like. You're right, a lot of art is just a part of yourself on a paper, on a, on the screen. You know, on stage it's not fabricated it's it's a reflection of ourselves. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:So I mean, I think, get good, that's what I would say make a good movie just find a way to make a good movie.
Speaker 2:Truly think about it. Takes so much, so much needs to happen, and that's not to say it's not worth it, it's 100 worth it. It is so much fucking fun to celebrate your movies when they, when they hit something and when they like, when you're with your team and you guys have made it to the other side and it gets you know, of course, like recognition is a huge thing, it's got a lot of tangents to it, it's got a lot of traffic, but like, when you get a little bit of that, it is, it's a phenomenal feeling and like maybe that's chasing the dragon a bit. But look, as dustin, dustin hoffman said you know, I think he was quoting lawrencece Olivier why do we act? Look at me, look at me, look at me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we'll keep making good movies, or trying to make good movies, and until we do, we'll just end up creatively pivoting. Gene, thank you so much for coming on again for chatting with me. We'll see you again next week. We've still got two more weeks left.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir.
Speaker 1:So thanks to everyone for listening and we'll see you next week.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining us at the CFA Studio for another series of the Inwood Podcast. You can find the podcast wherever you find your podcasts or on YouTube at the Cinematography for Actors YouTube channel. See you next week From the CFA Network. Cinematography for Actors is bridging the gap through education and community building. Find out about us and listen to our other podcast at cinematographyforactorscom. Cinematography for Actors Institute is a 501c3 non-profit. For more information on fiscal sponsorship donations because we're tax exempt now, so it's a tax write-off and upcoming education, you can email us at contact at cinematographyforactorscom. Thanks.