Indiewood

Casting A Film: How Actors, Directors, and Producers Look at Casting

• Cinematography for Actors • Season 6 • Episode 3

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Gene Gallerano, an award-winning producer, actor, director, and writer, shares his fascinating journey from an actor braving auditions to a director and producer making casting decisions.

We uncover his intriguing technique to capturing the attention of casting directors during auditions and his insightful reflections on how technology has reshaped the casting process.
This episode pulls back the curtain on the often-hidden dynamics of casting and filmmaking, showcasing the importance of auditions as performances and the distinct demands of theater versus film.

Gene provides a candid look at the overwhelming content landscape and the pressure to deliver recognizable names, echoing the era when celebrities could single-handedly sell films. This conversation offers a thoughtful exploration of the industry's unpredictable nature and the strategic necessity of juggling multiple projects. Tune in to gain a deeper understanding of the craft of filmmaking.

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A Podcast for Indie Filmmakers

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In the world of social media, and fast-paced journalism, knowledge is abound. But with all the noise, finding the right information is near impossible. Especially if you’re a creative working in independent film.

Produced by Cinematography For Actors, the Indiewood podcast aims to fix that. This is a podcast about indie filmmakers and the many hats we wear in order to solve problems before, during, and after production.

Every month, award-winning Writer/Director Yaroslav Altunin is joined by a different guest co-host to swap hats, learn about the different aspects of the film industry, and how to implement all you learn into your work.

"We learn from indie filmmakers so we can become better filmmakers. Because we all want to be Hollywood, but first we have to be Indiewood."

Speaker 1:

welcome back to the indie wood podcast. Uh. This is a podcast about independent film and the many hats filmmakers have to wear in order to get those films made. With me this month I have the wonderfully talented gene gallerano, who is a director, actor, uh emmy award-winning producer, who, uh is not only innovative enough to pivot on a dime but also also, I think, courageous enough to take opportunity when it comes.

Speaker 1:

I think you owe a lot of your success to that ability to take opportunity when it comes, whether or not it's going to bear fruit. You're like this opportunity, yes, I'm going to run with it, but we talked a lot about that in episode one and two. Your journey, your films, your ability to pivot you have such a history where you're an actor, you're a director, you're a producer and a writer. So I wanted to talk about casting because I feel like you have a really unique perspective being an actor doing casting from that side, then being a director casting from the opposite side, and as a producer, who I think you know it's a, it's a unique, it's a uniquely different perspective from a director, from a casting standpoint, and then also as a writer, like, do you focus on certain actors or certain you know talent when writing, but let's start as an actor. So when you enter a room, what is your experience and how has it changed since you've crossed that Rubicon and gotten to the other side?

Speaker 2:

You mean like as the actor walking into the room or being in the room, and an actor walks in.

Speaker 1:

Both. So like when you started, you know, as an actor and you were getting cast and you were doing plays and you were doing film, and then now seeing that world from the opposite end, you know like how has that changed your view of the process? But also like how, how would you or how, how have you changed your approach to auditioning and getting cast and stuff as an actor, now that you've experienced it from the other side?

Speaker 2:

I heard a musician, this Greg beatboxing flautist, shout out, Greg Petillo genius, say that sometimes he was a part of this group, Project Trio. And they would say if they would do, they were like this chamber group with this obviously beatboxing flautist, there's rad dudes. And they said if they went into a, like a, with an audience that was rowdy and not listening, they would play really soft and slowly they would start seeing everybody like get quiet and look over and like perk up and start stopping their conversations, Be like what's happening and then get their attention. I heard that I thought, man, it's like genius, I should use that in my audition and so like this is the only trick I have.

Speaker 2:

It's the only trick I have, it's you know is that work, and so what I do is I would especially in like theater, like you know, because you go when you go into rooms. Now you don't go into rooms anymore, right, which is a total bummer.

Speaker 2:

But you'd go into the room and you know they're like the old days. They'd be like looking at your headshot directors, the casting director, maybe the reader was like looking at the lines and you know you wouldn't have anyone's attention and so I would just wait for a second and, like an uncomfortable amount, and they would slowly look up and hit the first line. I was like, okay, I got him. Now what happens between that first moment and the rest of it is, you know, a million things can happen and sometimes you, sometimes you bang it out of the fucking park and you're like there's nobody else that's walking away with this role. And then sometimes you bang it out of the fucking park. You're like I did everything, I absolutely can, it's out of my hands. Sometimes you bomb, sometimes you deconstruct.

Speaker 1:

From that moment on, I've had a moment like that, but in pitching to a producer where I bombed real bad I, I choked and thankfully, like speaking back to creative pivot from the previous episode, you know, I like took stock of the moment, noted it to to kind of bring into a meditative place and then like was like hey, I'm so sorry, I just choked, let me try again. They're like great.

Speaker 3:

Wow, you're doing phenomenal.

Speaker 1:

Keep going well, I wasn't doing phenomenal uh, they didn't take the pitch they get have some great.

Speaker 2:

They had some great notes, but they did you get it back on the rails?

Speaker 1:

yeah, yeah, yeah. But the problem with that project was they. They said, um, uh, this is great, we love it. Problem is is netflix has four of these projects because it's based on public domain. So, um, but you got it back on the rails.

Speaker 2:

That's good, good for you I've done that a couple times. Sometimes you have to. Sometimes it's like it's back to one. You know they do it all the time and there's a reason. And like back to one means you don't just come back reloaded with where you left you go back to one beginning.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, I mean I think there's a million versions of that and acting is really fun. On that capacity and getting to take the ride, I think the great tom hanks said you know you have to love auditioning because sometimes that's the only performance of that role you're gonna get.

Speaker 3:

I mean he said something like that.

Speaker 2:

But it's the idea of, like, if you learn to love the audition process, which I was a terrible test taker I am a a terrible test taker, so that was an excruciating process for me, probably so limiting. And it's not necessarily about talent, it's about, like, get the job too you know, that's a part of it. Some people like are fucking phenomenal test takers, but they're not the best after that.

Speaker 2:

You know they're not like endurance athletes, and I mean acting is very fickle and everybody is up against so much of themselves. And I remember one actor she was a great commercial actor and she she told me, um, I'm just really good at talking, I just talk. And I was like, oh, that's good and you know, and she sold Advil and Tylenol and every drug out there, you know, and she made a ton of money doing and she had her thing. And so I think people like there's a lot of components to that, like walking into a room, acting, being willing to open yourself up, understanding how to work the room. I mean now it's like zoom and I I know some people like it, I've found it and like a lot of the actors, I know the the bummer about it is, you know, if you're like me, you gotta. You got kids like we're trying to do them at 10pm. The dog next door is still barking, you know.

Speaker 2:

And you're like exhausted from the day because you don't have any time during the day. You got all the other stuff and like it's, it's, and then you agonize over it because you're having to self, you're having to judge it yourself, like what's the best? Take that I did. You know the good old days. You don't have the room. Yeah, you go in the room and I'd be talking to you and you'd be like gene, once you like adjust this part and like I really thought you hit that moment but like bring in this, this like component to the last, to the last like phrase of it, and you'd be like okay, and you try to do it and and that was it, and everyone got about their 15 minutes or whatever and and there was something live to it.

Speaker 2:

And of course, there was like an exciting thing about going into rooms and like I'm such a unique person and then I'd go and see like 15 other unique people that look strangely like me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that is something that's always like weirded me out a little bit is going into a casting room and just seeing the same exact person, just a little bit different.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

You know and you're like, wow, there's a lot of talent here and maybe you find the right one, maybe you don't. So, speaking of casting from any perspective, how did your approach as an actor change from a bigger project to a smaller project? So if you were going in for an audition for a short film, how would that be different than if you were going for, you know, a network series or you know a studio film?

Speaker 2:

oh, I don't think the process changed for me at all. Ever I looked at, everything is the same. I mean I went after it. You know, obviously there's slightly different, you adjust your technique a bit, but like I went after everything the exact same way.

Speaker 2:

Maybe Maybe that was my downfall, I don't know, but I think great actors just act and I don't think it's the medium. Yes, like theater is really exciting because it's live and you don't get to go back and you have to roll with whatever happens. And like you're catching waves and you're relying on technique to get you through some nights and, um, some nights it's not. You think you totally phoned it in, it was garbage and everyone's like that's the best I've ever seen it. Or like a lot of times in the play, in plays, like you finish the run and and then you're like holy shit, how did I miss, how did I not have those clicks about all those whole sections? It makes so much sense now and it's over.

Speaker 1:

But you can't play anymore. Yeah, it's done.

Speaker 2:

You know, and film and TV are different and like indie, like I'm even dealing with this on this movie, this horror film that I'm working on, like it's period piece and it's got a great budget and it's got great actors and it's going to be awesome, but you still only because there's a budget and you only get so many goes at certain gags or certain things. The resets are so costly and so expensive, especially for a horror film?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and you're trying to bang out a feature in 20 days and it's super ambitious. It's massive scope, so everything has to be adjusted. So in that capacity, you need actors who are dialed. You do not need to like we have a great casting director and you know we have a lot of conversations about we don't have to.

Speaker 2:

He said something to me the other day. He was like this. We were just talking about actors. He was like this actress. He said I don't know if she's the absolute best for it. I don't know if we're you know it's like you're like rolling the dice at a certain point. It's like I don't know if she's the absolute best, but I know that you're going to make this movie in 20 days and she's going to be able to helm that every single day. And he didn't say it in a. There was no judgment on the actor in any capacity, but what I heard was right I need someone. I am not going to have the time to pull a performance out of someone. I need somebody to be as closely aligned to it as possible, but also someone that can do the job and like helm a film and hold the film. And that's really difficult, it's tough, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I think, there's a lot of things a film and hold the film and that's really difficult and like stuff, yeah, yeah. So so I think there's a lot of things I think every actor should be I, I hope, every actor in their, in their life. Like I used to say about commercials, um, I was like hope every actor gets one national commercial to see what it can do for them, because it can really change your life like a degree me, it led me on a path of making movies, maybe disaster who knows?

Speaker 2:

but, um, that's where I used that type of stuff and, and I feel like every actor, I hope they get to play the lead in a play I hope they get to play the lead in a film and get to hold on to that and like, understand what it is like.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I want them to play every kind of role, but like it goes back to that thing we talked about in some other episode, where it's like you learn from your successes, you learn from your failures. I want you to have the opportunity to helm a film and understand the day, the nuance of doing that from day to day, and, of course, you're going to shoot out of order. So you have to be like, you have to have a hold of the craft to understand how to do that and how to bring it. You can't just kind of willy-nilly it. It doesn't work, um, and I think there's something to that.

Speaker 2:

I think you get like, if you know, you get that to put that into your system and you're like I know what the leading person role feels like. You know, and I think that's a good thing for you to hold on to. Again, I keep going back to like I've had, uh, movies that I've been a part of in some capacity premiere at the some of the best film festivals in the world and it is fucking fun and it feels great and you like see the resource and the machinery and it's exciting.

Speaker 2:

But I've also been at um a film festival for like one of the movies I made and I'm not gonna shout out the town because I don't want to embarrass them, but it was like the closing night film and I went and I was like, oh, closing night, that's awesome, that's gonna be great. Like and this is a small midwestern city and I was like this would be cool, like it's great, that's a great slot, you know. And it was me and the usher and and I like showed up and I was like holy cow but the usher started asking me questions.

Speaker 2:

I was like you know what? I'm gonna be here for this. I'm gonna be here for this god bless this person. I'm gonna be here for him and I just sat and talked to him the whole time and I was like that's the yin and the yang, the high and the low, the you know that's interesting.

Speaker 1:

I, we, we, we definitely see that that gradient of of intensity from, you know, smaller film festivals to bigger film festivals, because even you know, I've been to some some big indie film festivals here in Los Angeles and you walk in and there's five people watching the film and sometimes it's a full house and it just depends on what you put into it, what the festival puts into it, and just you know the energy that it comes with into the film festival. But bringing it back to casting as a director, what are you looking for and how do you tune your approach to finding talent for the range of budgets that you work with?

Speaker 1:

I mean again, I'm always gonna look for like just great actors, first and foremost so when you say great actors like, is that an instinctual feeling or are there certain milestones that you have in your head that you're like they've hit that, they've hit that?

Speaker 2:

No, because I think people can be great and they've never gotten a job and I think they can be. Meryl Streep, you know, and obviously obvious. I think you look for someone who I mean, you hear it a lot. Casting is 90,. You know, they always assign some kind of percentage to it. 90% of it is pretty true. I mean there's a lot of things that are true about it.

Speaker 2:

Like I think that's the same thing with getting personnel on your cruise. Like you want people who have the vibe that you have and understand it and see it doesn't mean that people can't evolve and shift and find your vision. But if you got some people who understand it, it's so much easier. You're speaking the same language. If I cast you and I'm like I want a person's just like that's close to Yara, I'm like, oh wow, I got this guy that comes in, he's pretty close, I don't have to do a lot, a lot of work and that's frustrating to hear.

Speaker 2:

And yes, there are exceptions to it. Like so you go to school and you play every role, you play grandparents when you're like 20 and stretching every role possible and um, but I think probably what happens is you look for people who inherently have some of those qualities or like, obviously, if you're lucky enough, who knows what meryl streep is like? I mean, certainly people do and you know, but like who the fuck knows what she's actually like? You know, when she's at home alone and I don't care because I know that she can do all of these things, and like I could cast her as that. Is this a fern?

Speaker 2:

that's fern yeah and cast her as that fern should probably be a pretty dynamic fern yeah, yeah and so I think you just look for the best people and obviously you want, like, depending on the roles you're filling in, like you know you have to, you know an indie, you have like roles that maybe only play for a day or two days or three days or a week, and you're like, let me try to see if I can get some names that can do X, y or Z, and you can go down that whole path. There's a true, there's truths to it where, like, if you can squeeze in people who you're not gonna, you're not gonna give them a bunch of direction. These are heffes.

Speaker 2:

they're gonna come in, they're gonna like blow up they're gonna blow it out and you're gonna be like thank you, sir may I have another or not, you're gonna have them for one day.

Speaker 1:

Well, I'm glad you mentioned that because I wanted to ask about casting from a producerial standpoint, because there is that idea of bringing I don't want to say a name, but someone who is a recognizable actor. You pay them for a day, which is something you could probably afford on a million dollar budget. They do the day, but then you kind of make, make them maybe a little bit bigger of a of a part of the film in the grand scheme of things, and then that film has a lot more legs because people look at the poster and go, oh, I know that thing, you know, and maybe it's that throwback to when, you know, stars used to sell movies and I think that's less of a thing now, but maybe it isn't well, I don't know all the ins and outs of that, but there's a lot of movies out there.

Speaker 2:

I'm sure your cues are as expansive as mine.

Speaker 1:

Sometimes I just watch trailers and don't watch anything at all because there's so many options I've got decision fatigue I I read synopses so like, if I see a film like wow, that's great, never gonna watch it because there's too much stuff to watch, I'll go to wikipedia, I'll read the synopsis and be like that's a cool movie and move on I mean even within genres.

Speaker 3:

There's every remix of all time and like fusion and you're like you know it's.

Speaker 2:

I think there's a lot of content out there and so I think a that's a way to sell. There's the whole financing part, which you know names, etc. Etc.

Speaker 1:

Whatever that whole thing. Speak a little bit more about that, because I know you have worked within that kind of sphere a little bit, where you're like I need money, let me see if I can find someone who can maybe be more attractive to make the movie more attractive to financiers.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I don't know if there's a formula out there. I mean it's like it? I don't think there is a film.

Speaker 1:

I think you have to reinvent it every single time.

Speaker 2:

I feel like you hear a lot of we got to get foreign sales, but there's only three people who sell movies. I don't understand.

Speaker 3:

And there's all these other people. I don't understand.

Speaker 2:

There's all these other people. I don't really know about that stuff. I think that's not my area of expertise.

Speaker 2:

I want to make the best movies possible. I want the best actors possible. I'm willing to take risks on people and there's also a part of it and I think you are naive if you don't think that when you get teams and you have people giving you, don't think that when you get teams and you have people giving you money to make a product that they're gonna have needs and things that they're gonna require to do that and um, you know it's a tremendous luxury. You know, like Francis Ford Coppola and Megapolis, like throwing around his own money and doing that. And like you hear of the hollywood, like fight of against the studios and stuff and that's awesome for the singular auteurs who've had those fights and like, yeah, they're versions of that, but most people don't ever get to that spot so I think you're kind of lucky if someone I mean, maybe this is too working class for the dreamer, but like I think you're pretty lucky if someone wants to give you money to make your movie.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And if I gave somebody $1.5 million or $1, maybe not $1, but you know, $10 million, $1,000,. I'd want a little bit of some kind of guarantee that you're going to finish it as well as possible. It's obviously a risk, like I'm banking on you, I'm banking on your team, I'm banking on the cast, and if you tell me like a lot of filmmakers are, like we're gonna get this person or that person or whatever, and like we know that's all, like fugazi you know, you don't know if that's like real and, like we know, there's a million stories about actors not showing up to set or falling out a week before getting the the new marvel job, and they're, of course, going to leave your little indie movie like they should, you know.

Speaker 2:

I mean it'd be nice if they shot yours, and then I'll take you. Can you do a voice in the background so we can put you on the dvd cover or whatever? People starring need to sell, yeah but I mean that's a common thing. How many times do you see movies starring somebody and you're like they were in it for a day?

Speaker 1:

or for one scene. That was the Bruce Willis approach for the latter end of his career. He was trying to bank so much uh, I don't say bank, I don't know if bank is the right word but he was trying to kind of wrap up as many films as he possibly could because he was getting sick and, yeah, he wanted to kind of leave a legacy. But he did a lot of those films where they paid a million dollars. He came in for a day or two, shot his scenes out and that's it and he's in the movie yeah you know, maybe not as the lead but as the, you know, supporting mentor slash bad guy.

Speaker 2:

You know I mean, I think an important part of it is we can talk about all of these different avenues of casting, but when you think about it as an actor, you're such a small part of the decision making process. I mean obviously like a brad pitt, plan b is like a big, much bigger decision well, he's also producing, you know so well for sure.

Speaker 2:

So he's making decisions yeah but like he gets you know whatever those names are, obviously get things moving. But even you hear about all of those, like you hear tremendous stories about some of the best movies of all time taking 12 years 8 years it got shuffled around and canceled 500 times.

Speaker 2:

I mean it's almost miraculous if something gets made, and it's even more miraculous if it's good, and so there's a part of me that's like the. I think a takeaway that I've I've seen is if, if you can get enough things that, um, you know, it seems to me that, like a lot of the most interesting filmmakers have a lot of different irons going and I think what that is.

Speaker 2:

My. My takeaway is that they're protecting against the system because you don't know how, you don't know if someone's going to drop out, your movie's going to get canceled, or push dead in the water. You don't know if, like the net, the studio is going to go under.

Speaker 2:

You don't know if they're going to give you yeah, or like the executives are going to change, or like you just don't. There's a million, there's there's a million components to it, and if you have like a handful of projects that you're really passionate about and they're all going, and if any of them happens, that's great. You know like what a good, what a good way to go and like you're in good shape. Don't waste your time on stuff that's you're not willing to go to the mat for, because what if that one happens?

Speaker 2:

it's like the shittiest of the 17 projects you got and you're like anyone but this, and maybe devoted to that for five years of your life yeah, but hopefully they pay you a whole bunch of money and you get to like you know.

Speaker 1:

Yeah well, here's one final question. Yeah, if you, you, you started off, we started off this podcast talking about how you walk in and you kind of take a moment I used to when you used to go in and audition live, just so people would pay attention how would you, what advice would you give for actors auditioning via Zoom? How do you bring that sort of attention grabbing approach to a Zoom?

Speaker 2:

Zoom audition? I don't know. I think a lot of a lot of look. I've taken a lot. I've studied with a lot of amazing, amazing acting teachers and artists and so like everything you're hearing is just what I've learned and taken from other people. I have, uh, a thing that I've actually been doing with my kid, one of my, with my son, who's like three and a half and being like he's either a full lover boy or absolute tyrant. But it was when he's being like tyrant, you're trying to figure out how to reign him in, settle him down, get back on this planet, because he's like off spinning, he's in like a cosmic journey of terrible. And a funny thing that I saw recently was I was like how do I just bring him back to earth and bring him into the room, and I was like you know, give me your hand and we're like holding hands there. It was like just look at me and I was like why don't you grab, feel your shirt?

Speaker 2:

or your shirt collar, and I've heard this from multiple people shout out, to carl bury as one of them, um, but I've heard it from multiple people if you get lost, you just grab onto something real and start from there. And so I think what my advice would be and it's, you know, for whatever it is and like whenever I would teach you know, like students, actors and stuff, and I'd see a lot of people's like whatever just brings you into the room to start it off, and I think that's the same. I think what I was just trying to do was find a real place where I could be present with the people. Like obviously you have a camera, you're not in the room with them, so you have to find a way to do that on your own. And I think if you can find a little way to just bring yourself into the room of the audition, they will feel that see that and lean forward. I think that would be my best attempt at it, and the rest is like it's okay, it's out of your control, you know.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, there's a lot that's out of our control, but you know we can always stay present and keep moving forward. I want to talk about your experience with all the filmmakers you've worked with, but I think we'll save that for next week. So, gene, thank you for coming by. Thank you everyone for listening. We'll see you next week. Thank you.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for joining us at the CFA Studio for another series of the Inwood Podcast. You can find the podcast wherever you find your podcasts or on YouTube at the Cinematography for Actors YouTube channel. See you next week.

Speaker 3:

From the CFA network. Cinematography for Actors is bridging the gap through education and community building. Find out about us and listen to our other podcast at cinematographyforactorscom. Cinematography for Actors Institute is a 501c3 nonprofit. For more information on fiscal sponsorship donations because we're tax exempt now, so it's a tax write off and upcoming education, you can email us at contact at cinematography for actors dot com. Thanks,