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Indiewood
A Podcast for Indie Filmmakers
In the world of social media, and fast-paced journalism, knowledge is abound. But with all the noise, finding the right information is near impossible. Especially if you’re a creative working in independent film.
Produced by Cinematography For Actors, the Indiewood podcast aims to fix that. This is a podcast about indie filmmakers and the many hats we wear in order to solve problems before, during, and after production.
Every month, award-winning Writer/Director Yaroslav Altunin is joined by a different guest co-host to swap hats, learn about the different aspects of the film industry, and how to implement all you learn into your work.
"We learn from indie filmmakers so we can become better filmmakers. Because we all want to be Hollywood, but first we have to be Indiewood."
Indiewood
Career Momentum with JJ Hawkins: How to Find It, Keep it, Lost It, and Restart it
In our final episode with actor, producer, and screenwriter JJ Hawkins, we explore how momentum can affect your creative journey and how to pick yourself back up again once you lose it. This episode explores the balance between passion and practicality in artistic careers where we reflect on redefining success and maintaining self-worth beyond external achievements.
If you’re struggling to reignite momentum in your career or creativity, or you’re just finding it for the first time, this advice will help you maintain resiliency that will carrying onto the next film.
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A Podcast for Indie Filmmakers
More on:
IG: @indiewoodpod
YT: Cinematography for Actors
In the world of social media, and fast-paced journalism, knowledge is abound. But with all the noise, finding the right information is near impossible. Especially if you’re a creative working in independent film.
Produced by Cinematography For Actors, the Indiewood podcast aims to fix that. This is a podcast about indie filmmakers and the many hats we wear in order to solve problems before, during, and after production.
Every month, award-winning Writer/Director Yaroslav Altunin is joined by a different guest co-host to swap hats, learn about the different aspects of the film industry, and how to implement all you learn into your work.
"We learn from indie filmmakers so we can become better filmmakers. Because we all want to be Hollywood, but first we have to be Indiewood."
welcome back to the anywood podcast, a podcast about independent film and the many hats filmmakers wear in order to get those films made. This is our fourth episode of our first series of 2025, and I am talking with the incredible actor, producer and writer, dj hawkins that is me and you are speaking to me and we've talked about, uh, your career, your journey as an actor. We talked about writing, um the need for writing and the want and also the reluctance to to do anything else besides act.
Speaker 1:And then also this, this journey you had with producing your own work and now you're producing features, yeah, yeah, and so I want to talk a little bit about that process. I feel like everybody wants to do their own feature, and I feel like everybody maybe should. I feel like it's the next step above creating your own work. I think it's such a defining moment for creatives in the film space, like you yourself crafted a feature. It doesn't have to be big, but I feel like there's some sort of growth, artistically and physically and emotionally, from it.
Speaker 3:Definitely.
Speaker 1:Oh my God of growth artistically and physically and emotionally from it. Definitely, oh my god. So right now you have produced two features yes, they are both in post. Yeah, okay and then you were writing a third, which we talked about the previous episode. Yes, so tell me a little bit about the process of getting involved with those projects and how an actor from the utah theater stage environment ended up producing features in hollywood yeah, um, great question.
Speaker 3:Um, it's, every step leads to the next, and I feel like that's another summary of what we've been talking about this whole time. And if you can see something right now, that means it's for right now, and if there's somewhere else you want to get to, that will come. I think a lot of people disregard where they are in favor of where they wish they were, and that's missing all the steps to get to where you want to go. And so I feel that when it came to wanting to produce, when I decided I was like I want that when it has. When it came to wanting to produce, when I decided I was like I want to be a producer, I made the film that was available to me right then with the people that were available to me right then.
Speaker 3:And this was the golden boys. So this was a short film I made and was like I have the resources, I have the people, I have the connections, I have as as elected by me and the writer being the writer was I have the place, I have the location, and I believe that I have everything else that I don't know, which is like these hard skills, these know-hows that I will eventually learn by doing them, and I made it for the price I could, I made it in the place I could, I made it with the people I could, and because I had made a film, I was able to get other jobs in that capacity. And that's the catch-22 of not just our industry, but a lot of industries that it's like, in order to do the job, you have to have done the job, and so I think that's where creating your own work steps in. This is like, well, how am I supposed to, you know, produce Star Wars, these dreams that I have, or whatever, when I've never, never, when no one's given me a shot to produce whatever? You produce american graffiti, exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you got to do so many things before the star wars and you got to respect every single step of that, and the first step is exactly where you are, and most people just hate where they are. Most people just are fighting with where they are a hundred percent of the time, and it's like as soon as you embrace exactly where you are in this kind of paradoxic way, then you can start moving out of that place. But the longer you fight it, the longer you stay there. And so I again made this film, having no idea what would come of it. I just wanted to learn how to produce. That was my only goal, and I did. I learned a lot, but I learned how to produce a short.
Speaker 1:I had never produced a feature before speaking of the short, how did after have? We've talked so much about its creation and it's and how it was built and crafted when you were done with it, but where did it go? What happened to it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we did the festival circuit so we did the festival circuit. So we got into a good handful of festivals all across the us. We went to, went to a couple of the screenings. They were very fun, um, but nothing like that's gonna blow your mind. It's nothing. It's not the biggest festivals we. We did win at some smaller festivals too, which a win is a win.
Speaker 1:A win is a win. Well, and it's so fun. What's your thought on festivals, like if a filmmaker gets into a festival, should they go? Should they stay? Should they throw a party? Should they ignore completely?
Speaker 3:I think festivals are so fun yeah and I think you just get to hang out with other filmmakers. But also being around other filmmakers can be tiring and a lot of the energy a lot of the energy can be like what are you trying to get for me?
Speaker 2:or what can you offer me?
Speaker 3:and you know, but that's kind of true everywhere, I think. I think there is this kind of idea that you have to meet the right people, and and that's where this networking idea comes yeah this schmoozing.
Speaker 3:That's's never resonated with me. I've never tried to do that. I've never wanted to. I I live my career the way I live my life, which is like. I fortunately love people. I am an extrovert, but my, my favorite thing in life is my friends. So all I want to do every day is make friends. I love making friends and friends are my favorite people to work with. So it's like I get if I can't be friends with you, I don't, I don't, I don't care what you can offer me. I want you to offer me your friendship. And if that like also translates into you have these like abilities that can help as as another group of friends makes a piece of art, fuck yeah.
Speaker 3:But if we're friends and you can't help me with my film, you're still friends we're still friends yeah, and maybe you will down the line, you know, but I think that has actually what has garnered me, like the community and the people and the connections to make films is just a genuine desire to make friends yeah, and I think a festival is a good place to find that.
Speaker 3:Yeah exactly and so and so you totally can, you can find other people who are totally like, but you gotta, as with everything, you gotta kind of sort out the people who aren't there to make friends yeah, yeah, we've had some stories on this pod where where a person has gone on to a festival and met somebody and they're like are you here with the film?
Speaker 1:and they just had gone to the festival for fun and they're going, I'm just here to like meet folks and they had already had like a really, really robust festival career. Yeah, so they were an established filmmaker doing very well for themselves and they just visited a festival. Yeah, and this person is cool.
Speaker 1:I don't want to talk to you, great, please yeah, yeah, yeah, honestly, yeah, let that out and so with with this success of, uh, the golden boys, with this knowledge and new experience, how did you translate that to a feature? Because, like you said, producing a feature is not like producing a short it is not it it.
Speaker 3:It is not, but it is. It is an essence. Like you're, you're working the muscle. It's just a lot more and a lot more intense, right? So like, for example, we had a one day shoot and then for the feature 15 day shoot, it's like okay, it's like 15 of those one day shoots and kind of like that idea, where not only is it like 15 times are you working the same muscle, but back to back, to back so your muscles already getting fatigued.
Speaker 3:So it's not just linearly or more difficult, it is exponentially more difficult because of the buildup the endurance aspect of it.
Speaker 3:And so it was the same energy as my short, which is like I'm ready to learn. I'm ready to learn what I don't know, and like I also feel capable of doing the things that I'm setting out to do. And I think the biggest thing I learned is that going about producing a feature film more or less on my own, I didn't have a production team. Of course there were a couple other of the lead teams who like helped produce in these ways, but I was kind of like the sole lead producer and for a feature that was too much.
Speaker 3:That was way too much, and that was something that I didn't quite see from the short film is that I was able to do that for the short film. I was like no problem, and so it was this list of tasks that I knew I was capable of doing each individual task, but the again the back-to-back nature of them, the quantity that how much is needed of those tasks should have been divvied out, and I'm just like I'm so glad that I learned that yeah and I mean, what's what's wrong with learning that, you know?
Speaker 1:yeah, so I I got that I'd love to hear more about the specifics of the film, like what was the budget range? Was that a micro budget? Did you have a couple million like, did you crowdfund for it? Was it something that was, uh, funded by a production company?
Speaker 3:we had an angel investor. So we took some some meetings and were ultimately able to get an angel investor for production. Yeah, we are going to and this is uh for which film for the feature, the one you're writing right now, no, the one that I produced with my partner right, so she wrote it okay I produced it
Speaker 1:so your partner wrote the feature, the one right after golden, golden boys, and then you produced it. Yes, and that's the one with the angel investor. Yes, okay, how is it doing now? Is it still in?
Speaker 3:post still in post, okay. So a big reason of that is funding. So we now have to. I mean, we're taking more meetings and probably also going to crowdfund for post-production as well.
Speaker 1:So but it's done, it's in the can, it's all done.
Speaker 3:Now is just. I mean, we just finished pickups in september, so it was like we finally are done filming and now it's time to turn our attention to post so what about the second feature? The second feature is a documentary.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right that I remember, because that was the event I went to yes, exactly yeah, so there was, and this, this was crazy.
Speaker 3:This came out of nowhere, but there was a trans guy who ran across the country a la forrest gump, literally one step at a time, and those were running steps from santa monica to florida. That's incredible it's insane think about that, for just like half a second and then like fall apart.
Speaker 3:Yes, so this was uh, oh, actually, no, this was 2023 now, now it's 2025 but yes, yeah, in the grand scheme of, in the grand scheme running across the country, yeah, very, very recent and so this is my first time doing anything documentary, and a friend of mine, who is the director and producer, asked me to be again just more of the lead producer, but not on my own, hurrah. But we got a small team and I was shocked at how different documentaries are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they are a different world. How are they different for you? What was your observation?
Speaker 3:Oh, man, it's so open-ended. What I love about a narrative is here's the scene, and we got three takes of this scene.
Speaker 1:We're done, edit them together.
Speaker 3:A documentary is like here's hundreds of hours of footage, make something. I'm like what I mean? At least this project has a very clear start and end. It's like he started the run, he finished the run. There we go.
Speaker 3:That's a great container, but still, like with with interviews and kind of other backstories you want to get into and around. It's like what are we doing? I mean the, the lack of like script, and of course you still write a script for documentaries, but it's not the same type of script. It's more. It's more of an outline and it's like to to basically have an outline with footage and then, like a movie gets made. It's it's mind-blowing and especially as a producer, like for a, for a narrative, you're like gotta get everybody there. Gotta like you have this huge crew and all these locations and everything is. It's really like producer heavy, especially in pre-production work. But then for documentaries you're like okay, we have our like one camera, maybe two, and you just gotta, that person just has to become a fly on the wall you don't have any actors, you're just like you know, get good footage of what you're watching and it's like, oh my god.
Speaker 3:So it's kind of like a lot less pre-production work for a lot more post-production work in contrast, and that's just like a trip.
Speaker 1:I just also learned a lot speaking of running and documentaries and pre-production. I recently interviewed two directors of photography slash director for two documentaries, oh, very similar. Well, the short film uh, the short documentary is actually a shortlisted for an oscar called planet walker all right, and it's about dr francis.
Speaker 1:John francis, dr john francis, oh my god, john francis, who uh walked across the country, wow, because he refused to ride in oil-powered vehicles so for like 20 years just didn't ride a car or a plane or a boat, just just on his own two feet here's the kicker he took a vow of silence For 17 years. This man didn't say a word and he got a master's and a PhD without saying a word. Is that possible?
Speaker 2:Apparently, it's possible.
Speaker 1:And he taught, and he did it in his own way and he's been taught without saying yeah yeah. So for those who want to, who want to go check it out, it's called planet walker. It's on man the la times, I believe this has it up for free. Um, but that was a shoestring budget. They literally just like went to a location, captured footage and interviewed people and that's it.
Speaker 1:Like, yeah, the the idea of doing everything so simply and just being a you know um embracing the information and then, cutting it together and then the second documentary out on apple tv, I believe, uh, it's called the last of the sea women, which is very different because that was like three cinematographers and a lot of pre-production, because they had to go to an island called Juju Island, I believe, in South Korea, off the southern coast of South Korea, and they were interviewing this tribe not tribe this community of women who are called haenyeo, who are free divers and they dive for food to feed their community and they're all like 60 and 70 and 80. And that required so much prep because they had to like get to the island bring all this crew.
Speaker 3:Yeah, water and everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah like find these people, and so that was a lot of prep, but also like documentary-esque.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I don't mean to diminish, there's a lot of prep still required in documentaries.
Speaker 1:Just I felt not like, in contrast to narrative it's like heavy pre-production, you know. But it's interesting to see that you have, you know, this experience of discovering how different documentaries can be, but also how freeing and how, um you know, just open-ended I mean.
Speaker 3:It's so cool mean, it's so cool to learn, it's so cool to just like say yes to things that fall into your lap. Like I would have never sought out doing a documentary, but my friend was like you seem perfectly suited to this. I'm also a runner, you know, amateur but enthusiastic about it, and so running is very important to me. I'm trans and it was like oh, this seems like something that you would like, but it's like I don't think I'm going to do a documentary again.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Unless something similar happens, that's what I'm saying. But maybe I will, and that's what it is about taking the step right in front of you and really validating, like this is where I am, and it's so interesting the film that I'm currently writing. We're talking about making a documentary about the creation of this film.
Speaker 3:So, it's like it's a narrative film but like make it filming a documentary about the creation of it and it's like huh interesting. Never could have foreseen again that this documentary work or these documentary connections could come in handy with these other things I'm trying to do that I again couldn't have foreseen.
Speaker 1:Interesting like thought from a technical and like a production standpoint, having a bts documentary about a film that you've made yeah, adds this layer of marketing to it, which is incredibly valuable. Yeah, uh, just to like attempt to drop some advice and knowledge into this episode, because right now we're just waxing poetic about you know, how amazing making movies is.
Speaker 1:But I wanted to also touch on this idea of we talked about you know you're in episode one your career, how you came here, and it was just this time where people were looking for trans characters and trans actors to play those characters. And then you're like I'm here and we talked a little bit about we labeled it luck, where it was like opportunity and and and preparation, right. But I think, talking now about you finding this moment within this documentary, that was so fitting. You're like I don't want to make docs, but then this, this comes to you and you're like I want to do this and I think we can kind of redefine episode one and two and maybe even three and now here of this podcast with the word serendipity. Hell, yeah, because a lot of our careers feel serendipitous.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, we're just the pieces of a puzzle fit into place. Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I could not agree more. I feel like so much of the artist's plight is like letting life be the art that it is like, yeah, just like the serendipity totally resonating where it's like if, if you're not if, if you're not willing to just get on the ride, like what are you doing?
Speaker 1:yeah, none of us actually know what's coming up next, like, yeah, it sounds kind of productive too, doesn't it? Like, yeah, don't worry about it, just just fall into this water that's moving at an insane speed and you'll get somewhere. Yeah, and just don't drown and you're like wait a minute, what?
Speaker 3:yeah, oh man, I I heard this quote once. That is always going on in the back of my head. But some years ask questions and some years answer them and I feel like that is like totally what's happening with this project. I'm writing right now where I'm like I never could have foreseen. Literally, this project that I'm writing right now I was reached out to because I I got this connection as an actor and then I'm bringing all of my film knowledge and then we might be using this documentary knowledge.
Speaker 3:It literally feels like suddenly this project is calling on everything that I've done in the last few years and it's been me being like, oh, that can happen again. All these, all these whys. It's like why? Why did? Why did this glass ceiling? You know, I felt like I hit this glass ceiling with acting. Why did that like? Why? Why did? Why did this glass ceiling? You know, I felt like I hit this glass ceiling with acting. Why did that happen? Why? Why am I now like working on indie film? Why am I working on a documentary? Why? Where? Where did all these multi-hyphenates come from, when I never set out to do any of them?
Speaker 3:And then I feel like I get to a project like this and this happens through life for me, genuinely, that it's like this is why, and not that this is the answer, but just that it's like it brings sense. It brings like it is an answer. I don't think anything is the answer, but it's like wow, how cool, how cool to feel like life. What I felt like was these tumultuous waters. If I had just been like maybe it's a fun ride, it could have saved me a lot of like pain. If I was just like I don't know where this is going, but I'm happy to be here. I feel like that came later yeah, yeah, we, we.
Speaker 1:We're always the the um, the screaming. No, no, how does it wait? Remember rephrase we're always like pulled into something, kicking, screaming, and then, when we're there, we're like oh, this is fun.
Speaker 1:Yes, this is great, absolutely, and I I think I we talked a little bit about this, um in the previous episode, about being open to opportunity and possibility and like opening to the creative, like faucet or river, that's the solar winds happening, you know, uh, of creativity that are hitting the planet. Be open to that, and I think this is a great example of that, where you are open to every possibility coming your way. And then the documentary, the glass ceiling, writing, everything's coming to a head. Now, where you're? This, this film that's being crafted uh, includes all those things that came before and it's also a testament to the thing we talked about in the beginning, where it's this thread that blocks that continue building on top of each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that turn into a thread yeah, nothing is a waste of time, and you're evidence of that, which is really cool.
Speaker 3:Nothing is a waste of time. It's so hard to remember yourself.
Speaker 1:We're going to have such a cool merch drop oh.
Speaker 3:I'm ready.
Speaker 1:Cardigans.
Speaker 3:Oh, there's going to be so many cardigans.
Speaker 1:Ugly Christmas sweaters. I want some socks. Yeah, okay, I can do socks.
Speaker 2:Maybe little totes.
Speaker 1:I love a tote. Totes are, I think, really cool. I'm a big toad guy. Oddly enough, big toad guy, I'm a toad guy, yeah.
Speaker 2:Toads Good. Canvas toad is good.
Speaker 1:Well, not to digress too much, of course, I'm so excited with everything that's happening with you, jj. I think it's really cool and I'm excited to see more. I really am excited to see this new film, which is a culmination of all these things you've done in your life. Coming to a head, yeah, and like looking back now, you know, at the beginning, you coming into los angeles from utah, you're like hello, I'm here, run, run, run, hollywood eventually, and you kind of are, you're kind of setting yourself up for that. Uh, what would be some advice that you would give to yourself? Who?
Speaker 1:just got off a plane from utah and you're like listen.
Speaker 2:I drove here.
Speaker 1:Oh sorry, you parked and you got out and you were like you popped out of the portal of time travel and you're like, let me tell you something. I got three seconds. What do you say? Not three seconds, but you know that's a really good question.
Speaker 3:Um, oh, if I could give one bit of advice to me right at the beginning it's probably very similar to what we've been saying is to just like let go, I think. I think there's a negative connotation with letting go, but you gotta let go of the thought that you know how you're gonna get there. Like letting go doesn't mean saying goodbye Sometimes it can, for sure. But letting go of any of this premeditated ideas, like let go of who you are I mean you gotta constantly change and changing is hard and you gotta to be the person that you want to be means that you're not that yet. So you have to change to be the person you want to be. There's a difference between wanting and having, and it's not easy to get there, and it's like you've got to let go of everything that you think that that will be, but still hold on to like you know your, your morals and what, what, what you, what grounds you always like that, but but probably just let go and have more fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah. There's a lot of pressure that comes with wanting success and needing things to be successful. I've met some folks who are like I have a script out, people are reading it, I'm out of the town. This is the last one. If it doesn't pop off, I'm done.
Speaker 2:And I'm like.
Speaker 1:I don't think you were meant to be here then. Yeah, you know I couldn't agree more that pressure doesn't make it fun or exciting or free enough where you can be like I'm just going to fall into this river or let go and let the current.
Speaker 3:take me this is something my partner and I have talked about a lot that it's like if I, if I don't do this, then I'm done.
Speaker 3:And it's like you're imposing those incredibly high stakes onto yourself, so much so that if, if, if someone doesn't do one particular thing with one particular script, you're gonna take away your dream from yourself. You're gonna pull out your dream, like why are you putting such high stakes on this? Why why are you being like? You are doing that to yourself by saying, like, I will stop if, if this, and it's like you can remove those stakes and your art will probably be a lot better because of it to be like my dreams and what I love are unaffected by, by outcomes, and it's like that's really hard to do. When, like you got bills to pay, you got you got stuff to do, but it's it's.
Speaker 3:It's individual for every single person. But like your dreams should not be on the altar. You know that shouldn't be the thing that you're like. I'll rip this out from you.
Speaker 1:It's like damn I'm glad you mentioned the financial aspect because, like you know, some people can't absolutely, and you know there are things you could do like get a grant, get a fellowship, whatever like, but some people are just like I can't put in the time into this because I just I can't afford it. Yeah, and it's a very weird industry where you need to kind of make money in order to do the thing you love that will hopefully eventually make money, or never, yeah you know, and yeah I think, looking at you, where you're like I'm coming here to act.
Speaker 1:And you know, there was this moment where it was very successful for you and there was steady, and then pandemic and and things just just made things worse. But then, in in an attempt to kind of come back to that moment where you were getting roles that were authentic to you, yeah you then created this other thing that you could do for other people you know, and I think those skills can transcend.
Speaker 1:And for me, you know, uh, coming out of grad school having success as a writer, then having a pandemic and a writer strike and an actor strike, to deal with suffering where, like, oh well, I can't make money as a writer. It's hard. So what do I do?
Speaker 3:and I've segued those skills into other things a lot journalism and, and you know, education, where I am still able to be an artist and still write and still be a part of the industry and then also do other things that, yeah, you know, feed the, the wallet, uh, the bills, it's, it's the hardest thing especially after you've received some good amount of success, if your dream has paid your bills for a certain amount of time and you have to what feels like a step back and get another day job or or, you know, have other streams of income, it's, it's very difficult, and and it I think the hardest part of all of this is is like grounding your self-identity deeper than any of the winds of change, and that is that I mean.
Speaker 3:For me, at least, that was that was the hardest part. Like I, I had this belief in myself and I got these like successes, and then I started putting my belief in the successes, not in myself, and I feel like that's when things really shifted for me. I was like, see, that's why I'm an artist or that's why I'm successful. It was suddenly outside of myself as opposed to inside, and and when your success and your worth is deep inside you, again untouchable by the waves of change, you will be shocked at where that takes you and that nobody can take it from you because nobody gave it to you. You know, and that's hard, but it's worth it. I think you know. You know hard won.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like I want to say something poignant to wrap it up, but that was well put. I'm going to leave.
Speaker 3:I got the final word. In your series. It is the last episode. It is the last episode of my series. It's been a long month.
Speaker 1:I'll let you have the last word. And then I'm excited that we had a chance to chat, because now we have merch coming.
Speaker 3:Now the merch is on the way.
Speaker 1:We just thought about it. So hopefully we'll have something down the road, but we'll see. Dj, thank you for coming on the pod. Thank you, yaro. Thank you for sharing everything you've been through and everything you're going through, and all your successes and ups and downs.
Speaker 3:Thanks for asking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's educational at the very least, and it's exciting. Fun at the most, yeah, fun at the most. We'll see you on the big screen with your features very soon. You damn right. Thank you for everyone who's listening. We'll see you in the next episode. Thank you for listening to the Innywood Podcast. You can find the podcast anywhere you find your podcasts or on the CFA YouTube channel.
Speaker 2:From the CFA Network. Cinematography for Actors is bridging the gap through education and community building. Find out about us and listen to our other podcast at cinematographyforactorscom. Cinematography for Actors Institute is a 501c3 nonprofit. For more information on fiscal sponsorship donations because we're tax exempt now, so it's a tax write-off and upcoming education, you can email us at contact at cinematographyforactorscom. Thanks.