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Indiewood
A Podcast for Indie Filmmakers
In the world of social media, and fast-paced journalism, knowledge is abound. But with all the noise, finding the right information is near impossible. Especially if you’re a creative working in independent film.
Produced by Cinematography For Actors, the Indiewood podcast aims to fix that. This is a podcast about indie filmmakers and the many hats we wear in order to solve problems before, during, and after production.
Every month, award-winning Writer/Director Yaroslav Altunin is joined by a different guest co-host to swap hats, learn about the different aspects of the film industry, and how to implement all you learn into your work.
"We learn from indie filmmakers so we can become better filmmakers. Because we all want to be Hollywood, but first we have to be Indiewood."
Indiewood
Unconventional Writing Techniques: A Filmmaker's Guide to Storytelling
In this episode of the Indiewood podcast, host Yaroslav Altunin welcomes back writer/director George Huang for a conversation about unconventional creative storytelling techniques. From how physical objects can transform boring scenes into compelling story moments to using "scaffolding writing,” to build original stories by studying successful structures, we explore different ways to stand out as a writer.
Like, subscribe, and join us next week for our final episode with George where we'll explore film school from both the professor and student perspective!
0:11 Welcome to Indiewood podcast
0:28 Introducing George Huang
0:47 Podcast recording streak
1:17 Discussing production experience
2:08 Focus on creative process
2:57 Introducing the screenwriting fund
3:52 Writing with props
5:06 Visual storytelling techniques
6:57 Props as storytelling devices
8:33 Examples from Pulp Fiction and westerns
11:28 Props revealing character backstory
13:33 Scaffolding writing technique
15:53 Nothing is original - Jim Jarmusch quote
18:18 Your unique take matters
20:22 Breaking free from 90s structure
22:40 Four-act structure approach
24:31 Vertical format filmmaking
27:17 Evolving media consumption
29:04 The enduring power of storytelling
32:36 Storytelling as an essential skill
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A Podcast for Indie Filmmakers
More on:
IG: @indiewoodpod
YT: Cinematography for Actors
In the world of social media, and fast-paced journalism, knowledge is abound. But with all the noise, finding the right information is near impossible. Especially if you’re a creative working in independent film.
Produced by Cinematography For Actors, the Indiewood podcast aims to fix that. This is a podcast about indie filmmakers and the many hats we wear in order to solve problems before, during, and after production.
Every month, award-winning Writer/Director Yaroslav Altunin is joined by a different guest co-host to swap hats, learn about the different aspects of the film industry, and how to implement all you learn into your work.
"We learn from indie filmmakers so we can become better filmmakers. Because we all want to be Hollywood, but first we have to be Indiewood."
Hello and welcome to the IndieWood podcast, a podcast about independent film and the many hats filmmakers wear in order to get those films made. Every month, I am joined by one such filmmaker, where we talk about their approach to the creative process and how they thrive and flourish In the visual medium of film. This month, I am joined by my former UCLA professor, a wonderful writer, a wonderful director and a Producer out of necessity, I guess, right yeah.
Speaker 1:You do what you need yeah so please welcome back to the pod Georgeorge huang thank you, it's good to be back yeah, week three, we've talked a lot you still have not changed.
Speaker 2:No, I'm just wearing the same outfit, same socks. It's like a superstition thing like we're on a roll and so you don't want to.
Speaker 1:They just put jinx it after the pot ends. They just put me in stasis and then they come out, so okay technically, I've only been.
Speaker 2:That's why you look so young. Okay, because I figure like the years would have been a little harder on you, but you look exactly the same when you were a student.
Speaker 1:No, it's because I never go out into the sun. Okay, I'm always indoors writing or editing or doing something or doing a pod. Last episode we talked about production, because you've made a bunch of films over the course of three decades, yeah, three decades 35 years. You said Yep.
Speaker 2:And you started in the 90s doing it in the studio system with film to now kind of I don't know if it's in the studio system, but you're I'm still working with sort of well-known filmmakers. My most recent collaborator is Luc Besson, of professional fame, MC the Fifth Element. So he's a venerated filmmaker and that is still some currency in Hollywood, even though I'm finding it's not as much currency but it's like you know, it's not the studio system anymore, but it's independent film, but it's still really high-end, independent exactly yeah.
Speaker 1:The budgets we're dealing with are yeah much higher than yeah like the sundance darling, exactly, exactly well, I wanted to talk about, uh, the other half of production. Well, not not production, but the creative process, because we talked about production, getting stuff made, financed, kind of. You know what the difference was between back then in the 90s and now and how you're making films now. But you know, we met in the classroom where I was your student. You were, uh, a first year professor. I don't want to say first year professor, it was your first year class.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, my first four or yeah, I'm you know, and I never taught formally before, so it was like yeah, I was just going okay I have no idea what's going on here.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know, before I started I did shadow a lot of the other 434s and try to get a feel of you know what the writing workshop is about. And yeah, and try to you a feel of what the writing workshop is about and try to follow that same format. But yeah, in the last eight years Phyllis Nodge runs a program Now we've tried to adapt, tried to offer the students something a little more. We now offer rewrite course. Yeah, so you could have taken your original script and then spent another quarter rewriting it making it tighter.
Speaker 1:That's an important thing.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I'd love to talk more about film school, but I think we'll save that for the last episode. Okay, and for those listening at home 434 was the number for that workshop, the graduate level workshop.
Speaker 2:It is the signature class for screenwriting at UCLA. It is the workshop where you have to complete a feature film in 10 weeks. Yeah, no, it is the workshop where you have to complete a feature film in 10 weeks. Yeah, no, excuses.
Speaker 1:Idea to first draft.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It doesn't have to be a good draft.
Speaker 2:No, exactly, it just has to be a draft. It has to be finished, that's it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, speaking of writing, you're coming in to teach a seminar for the grant program that's stemmed from this podcast, which is the IndieWood Screenwriting Fund, uh, where we're uh teaching some writers about craft, and when we talked about kind of you coming in for the seminar you mentioned, you wanted to cover writing with props, right?
Speaker 1:and so when me and you were talking about the pod and prepping for the pod, right I I wanted to unpack a little bit of you know, these unconventional concepts that people use in order to kind of elevate their script. And when we talked about writing with props, you brought up that scene with the watch in pulp function. Yep, where you know, um, christopher walken does this whole 10-minute monologue about how he got the watch from vietnam to america and it motivates this character. But also in your movie, uh, the most recent one you did, weekend in taipei, there's a whole sequence.
Speaker 1:I don't ruin it for everybody, but it was one of my favorite moments. I'm going to spoiler alert, go watch the movie where they're undercover, the two main characters and his port. So the main characters undercover with his partner and his partner, like his badge falls out of his pocket, right. And it was such a wonderful moment because no, no, it's fake, don't worry about it, and everyone's kind of like the gangsters are circling it was such a good moment and I thought that was a clever use of props.
Speaker 1:So I I'd love to hear kind of your approach to writing with props and how you utilize that toolkit to really kind of elevate scenes, because I'm seeing it like in in real time, right with this recent film that you did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you know, for me, like you know um and this is like an interesting thing, so you know, when I first joined ucla and like screenwriting and like you know, studying the theory of it all, that type of stuff like the one, things that you know most students want to do is. You know they want to a not only find their signature voice, but yeah they feel that okay, the way we sort of define characters by giving them long monologues or these complex backstories, you know it's, it's all very internal you know, and film is a visual medium.
Speaker 2:You, know, you got to give me something that can show people that can shoot, you know, um, and so, you know, rather than having someone talk about their past, you know, give them something specific you know to talk about and let the past sort of unfold through that specific item, in which case a props, you know. You know I see it working with actors. You know there are a lot of actors who you know, whether it's a wardrobe or their watch, or you know some little item that helps them get into that character, get into that space. So I think, with telling a story, you can use props as sort of a almost a laundry line that you can hang everything else on. So, yeah, like the example I use when I teach class obviously is, yeah, pulp Fiction, the Christian Walken speech, you know that then motivates and why Bruce willis has to go back and make that big risk because the watch is so meaningful to him.
Speaker 2:Um, I'll just show, uh, some clips from uh. There's a spaghetti western called for a few dollars more, and lee van cleef and clint eastwood, you know they're basically trying to hunt down this. You know, notorious, um, uh, sort of a thief, this outlaw, um, and this outlaw has a signature of. He pulls out a watch every time and says, okay, yado, when the chimes end, we draw, you know, and it's just like any more coney score, builds on it all that type of stuff. And then when the chimes end, you know, yeah, and he always outdraws him. Um well, there's a great reveal at the end.
Speaker 1:Spoiler alert if you haven't seen it, come on, it's 1969.
Speaker 2:If you haven't caught up to it right now yeah, it's fair game, um, but lee van cleve, clinius, with their sort of a penultimate fight with the uh outlaw, and um, the outlaw gets um sort of the one up on uh lee van cleve and like, okay, he's like pulls out the watch. He said when it chimes in, we draw, you know, and you hear the chimes. I think uh-oh, this is not going to go well for lee van cleef.
Speaker 2:And then you hear the chimes again from off screen and in comes clint eastwood holding a replica, a duplicate, a double of that watch with the same chimes, and you see lee van cleef reach for his pocket and the watch is missing. And then the entire backstory of the film is revealed through the watch. It turns out, you know, like you know, clean eastwood, when he gives the watch back to lee van cleef, it's like oh, I noticed the family resemblance. It's like, well, of course, between a brother and sister. You realize lee van cleave was not in it for the bounty, the outlaw had killed the sister and he was out for revenge. And it's a great way to sort of unfold that without having given, like you know, a hamphest, a monologue. Oh well, you know, uh, you know he killed my sister and so now we're gonna hunt him down. Yeah, yeah. So you know, you can use these little things to help motivate. You know stories like um, like, come on.
Speaker 2:You know, one little ring motivated this whole three-movie epic called Lord of the Rings. You know, everyone just wants to get a hold of the ring. So, yeah, finding a prop, finding something that you know, can either spark a story, be the catalyst of it it can be an everyday item or, you know, just something to demonstrate, give the actor something to work with. You know, another scene I'd like to show is um the alec baldwin speech from glenn gary ross. You know where, like you know it starts from put that coffee down. Coffee is for closers only. Yeah, you know it's like okay, that was really specific. Why would you just not call them losers? But you know, having something specific to latch on to, and then it goes on like, okay, there's gonna be a contest. You know, first prize is a cadillac, you want to see. Second prize, steak knives.
Speaker 3:You know, third prize, you're all fired you know it's like oh my god, yeah, it's like, it's like yeah but you know, again, it comes down to the watch.
Speaker 2:Like ed harris says who the hell are you? They go, he goes. You see this watch pal. This watch costs more than you made all year. You know little like items like that, not only visual, but it gives actors an entryway into explaining who they are. What's at stake, what's going on with the?
Speaker 3:story um.
Speaker 2:So rather than having someone just so like just download you, okay, so yarrow. You know um, so you know motivational speech, real estate I need you to perform better. You know your number yeah yeah, you giving the actor some sort of business or something to grasp onto, something visual. It gives you sort of a momentum, something you can really latch onto as a viewer instead of just listening.
Speaker 1:Another movie that I'm thinking about that really utilizes Two Props specifically, is no Country for Old Ben.
Speaker 2:Right the briefcase no.
Speaker 1:Am I thinking of? No, I know oh yeah, I was thinking of uh, there will be blood, but no, no, no country for old man is the one I'm thinking of. The cattle prod, yeah, and then the quarter, because heads or tails, right, it was like what do you mean? The heads or tails, and then the whole thing stemming from that like simple quarter, with the both sides you know, and and there's stakes in that, and there's there's this sense of you know where his life is, um held together by luck and then also the cattle prod gun is a great like exactly.
Speaker 2:It's so unique and so different. It's something we've never really seen before in film. But to kill a person, that was like what? The? Yeah, yeah, exactly, it's just like it's. It's actually scarier than a gun. We've seen in guns hundreds of thousands of times in film. What a calibre. Never, so, yeah, so, something that unique and very specific to that region, you know, is, yeah, it really helps set the tone and the setting and helps you tell the story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what other techniques are you seeing used, or are you teaching in class as well, to help writers like unconventionally support their story or even find new opportunities for for their story?
Speaker 2:so the one thing you know and I just started it this year because you know I saw a lot of students starting to sort of flounder with their ideas and especially with structure you know. So look, I mean all the screenwriting books. They talk about three-act structure. You know there's almost like a formula to it like okay, by page 10 you have your inciting incident. By page 30 you have your first act break. The midpoint is page 60. I never heard that term until I got to ucla like what is the midpoint?
Speaker 2:well, it's page 60. I get that it's halfway through. That's what midpoint means. But what's supposed to happen in midpoint? What's the midpoint? It's like, okay, you're still not answering right, yeah it's very like yeah, so these sort of like you know, tenants, a screenwriting, these rules, you know um? It can be a little constricting. In fact, they're often very formulaic and you can see students trying to write to that, you know um, and I tell them it's just like look, your generation, especially, has seen more content yeah than any other generation in the history of mankind.
Speaker 2:And so, if you're going to spoon feed me something from the 90s, yes, that formula was like sort of sort of fresh in the 90s, but we're now 30 years later and we've seen all of this. You've seen all this. It is not going to be exciting or new to me when you know I'm going to know. Internally it's like okay, well, okay, yeah, that we're 30 minutes in, okay, so by you know, 90 minutes in, there'll be the like, the deep, you know dark, you know sort of like moment of crisis. Yeah, the second act, right. So all that type of stuff isn't fresh, it isn't original and it's certainly not engaging anymore. But, yeah, try telling a sort of a fresh baby screenwriter. Yeah, it's like don't, don't pay attention yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:So what I've been asking uh students to do, um, I think I heard this on an other podcast from a, I think, uh, from a lecturer at uh north carolina. She uses something called scaffolding, okay writing, and what she says is, like you know, look, I mean one of the things we always ask of you when you come into workshop and you tell us your ideas, like, okay, what are some comps, what are some comparable sort of movies that you know you would put your movie alongside with um. So now I make the students go and, you know, go, just write the b cheat of what those comps are and use that almost as a scaffolding around the building that then you'll then construct. But at least you have something sound that you know you can sort of build around. You know, um, and look, there are a lot of sort of naysayers of it's like well, aren't you just like redoing men in black for the fifth?
Speaker 2:time you know all that type of stuff. But you know, there is sort of a some sort of safety in that for them, especially just to get started. They're just giving some sort of sense of confidence that okay, I know when I'll get to the end of this is that the building, the script will actually be finished. It'll be actually somewhat sound and be the idea that, okay, well, we don't. Do you want to be original? I mean again, let's be honest there's so much content out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the idea of originality anymore is sort of like. What does that even mean? You know like, well, I look at you know quentin tarantino's movies, and, look, he'll be the first to tell you it's like I nicked that scene from this movie. Yeah, that is a scene inspired by a burt reynolds movie called navajo joe, and he will basically tell you the inspiration for each moment of his movies.
Speaker 1:But what makes it completely original is how he synthesizes all of them, puts all of them in a yeah, that's uniquely his own I was just going to say that, like ideas, you know, are never original, but how you, how you execute exactly the words on the page, that's the originality, exactly. And coming coming back to that idea of scaffolding, I remember it was a producing class where someone came in who was someone who attended Sundance with films. Quite often they were like my first movie. I just did that. I took my favorite film, stripped it, copied it, but to kind of not play Del's advocate but to play the other advocate, whatever the word is people saying, oh, saying, oh well, you're just copying the movie, but like even painters, they'll do, yeah, case studies, right, they'll do. You know, uh, they'll use those little uh, back in the day, they use those little mirrors where you could literally just trace oh yeah, exactly yeah, they would almost project the image onto a canvas, all right, and so.
Speaker 1:So just to get the framework on, because it's hard, yeah. And if we think about writing, as someone who's painting, a painter doesn't go and slap paint on the thing. They're like, there it is, it's great. They'll do it in layers and structured layers to make sure that the actual execution of the painting, what's really original, is theirs and it's good, you know it has something to build on yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:But yeah, that is the hardest part is just getting that first foundation to build on and then, once you, you know, have that foundation, then you know you can start adding those layers that you know of your personality, of your original voice, of stuff that you want to say I mean, I'm gonna reach here, and there's a great quote by jim jarmusch on this where, yeah, um, nothing is original.
Speaker 2:Steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration or fuels your imagination. You know devour, old films, new films, music, books, paintings, photographs, uh, poems. It goes on and on and on um you know bodies of water, light and shadows. Select only things to steal from that speak directly to your soul. If you do this, your work and theft of it will be authentic. Authenticity is invaluable. Originality is non-existent, and don't bother concealing your thievery. Celebrate it, you know, if you feel like it. In any case, always remember what john lucadart said it's not where you take things from, it's where you take them to like yeah and I think that that's really, yeah, relevant now, especially again in our age with so much content out there.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, it feels like hard to like. Oh my god, how do I like be original and stand out amongst all that type of stuff? Dude, leave that aside. Like jim jordan said, there's no such thing as originality anymore. You are not going to stumble upon an idea that somebody hasn't done before or somebody hasn't tried before, but what's going to make your idea fresh and new and unique is your take on it I remember, uh, I remember, but I was uh looking at some of the new films coming out that were really interesting, and original Weapons, for example.
Speaker 1:you see the trailer and you're like that's interesting, the kids running across and then I'm like in my brain immediately goes Children of the Corn. There's a whole segment of the 90s where it's just creepy kids and it's just coming back now. So I'm not saying that that movie's unoriginal because it looks great and fun and you know, uh has its own, you know unique flair to it. But yeah, like ideas are just a regurgitation, but your implementation of it is right.
Speaker 2:I was reading a review of megan 2.0 this morning and they said it's basically this filmmaker's version of terminator 2.0 and they're like. That actually got me more excited to see megan do what I'm like. Oh my god. Okay, so it's not a horror film, it's like this action, sci-fi film. That's.
Speaker 1:That's really interesting yeah uh, speaking of structure, because I I know people are like oh well, the structure, like you made a good, good uh statement, um observation, observation. Thank you, you made a good observation that, like this structure is from the 90s and we've seen it so many times like hit, like repeat, yeah, repeat, rinse, repeat, over and over again.
Speaker 2:When you used to have like story meetings, you know like, especially disney, they have this whole like bible and you know you have to stick to this and this and yeah. So it was a formula that studios wanted to latch on to. You know, and I get it. Look, when you invest millions in the movie, you want to try to hedge your risk as much as possible, so you go back to oh well, people really like splash. What was the structure of that?
Speaker 3:oh well, the mermaid comes in like page 10 and now page yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you start copying that sort of structure you know um, but in copying it over and over it's like a bad photocopy that gets yeah it starts to fade each time you do it.
Speaker 1:That's where we get the word uh derivative exactly exactly, yeah.
Speaker 2:Where has you get, like you know, movies like, uh, like parasite, the bong ju, yeah, oh, it's like that's two acts. It's everything that happened before the basement and everything that happened after you discover the base.
Speaker 1:It's like it's so fresh yeah, I'm glad you mentioned acts, because you know we're so stuck on this three-act structure, right, you know, uh, and as, as I learned structure in grad schools, I implemented it on my own and it kind of threw things out as I was like I don't need this, like this is just slowing me down, like I get it. Uh, I came to this point in my career, or my writing process, where I'm not writing four acts right, because I have my one act right where, like this, you know, we introduce everybody.
Speaker 1:There's this you know we're going on an adventure and then we shift an act to where the adventure starts right, and then there's this point in the middle where everything changes and the movie changes, you know, because it's it's, it's it's less reactive and more active more proactive. There we go, that's the word I'm looking for, and then we have everything that happens with the resolution. That's your fourth act, right?
Speaker 2:so I'm writing four movies now, yeah, yeah, that's great, you know. I mean, yeah, again, find what works for you find, you know yeah, shakespeare used five acts. You know, yeah, um, I I know I'm still kind of firmly embedded in the react structure because that's what I grew up with and that's what I know, sort of like the back man, and a lot of times I do have to be sort of moved off it, you know, by like a luke basson or a filmmaker says what are you doing?
Speaker 3:what are you doing?
Speaker 2:it's like well, like no, no, it does not need to happen there. It's like okay, you know, wouldn't it be more interesting if the it's like oh yeah, it would be so yeah, so um.
Speaker 1:That's also an interesting statement Like use the structure, use the scaffold.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right when you get to the end of the draft and start rewriting and reworking it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Some of those components not going to look the same.
Speaker 2:Exactly yeah, because, again, scaffoldings are just for the first layer of it and then, once you've sort of got the spine in there and everything, then you can start pulling stuff out, adding stuff in, putting in a new window, taking out a spotlight whatever you want. That makes the movie entertaining and exciting for you.
Speaker 1:I like that. So we're mostly talking about features and pilots. Is there because I I'm trying to think of like new media and short form content, because that's becoming a big well, that's becoming the new sort of structure and, yeah, these vertical formats, you know where it's idea of.
Speaker 2:You know one or two minute episodes and you gotta have a cliffhanger every two minutes, like what you just I mean, that's how they wrote sitcoms in the 90s, right you know like every two lines is a joke.
Speaker 1:You know like three jokes a page, yeah, exactly so like that's, that's something you could do for this. You know, like vertical format. Are you seeing any writers tackle that or are you kind of giving anybody uh direction in tackling short form content?
Speaker 2:I haven't yet, because it's not something I'm familiar with. Just yet, I've only really seen one vertical format, and it's a, a series that my second AD you know, did on her own, and then you know. But there have been sort of even recent grabs from our program who are working in that vertical format and doing really, really well with it.
Speaker 1:I remember I believe it was Steven Soderbergh who did like a of a show and half of it was on TV and there's like another version of it. Yep, that Mosaic, yeah, there we go. Yeah, that was that was it. That was for uh phones.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:And I remember watching. I was like this is 19 minutes on my phone. I'm going to watch this.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:But. But now I'm one and recently I saw this show on Instagram. It was just all reels, but it was two to five minute segments and it was just bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, like quick short scenes, and I don't remember if I saw the whole thing. I don't remember if I saw the whole thing, but it was organized into these little mini ecosystems within each reel and then everything was connected to one big half-hour pilot so you could cut it into a half-hour pilot but what I liked about it was all vertical.
Speaker 1:I don't have to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so these vertical formats are hugely popular in Japan, korea and Asia. You have housewives who are doing their vacuuming and holding the phone like that in vertical format.
Speaker 2:For me it's like look, I know I still have to get used to it, but you know, for me when I watch these vertical format it kind of hurts my eyes because, yeah, you know you can't do conventional framing, and I think this is where the fault of some of these vertical formats are. They're trying to do conventional framing and vertical, so like they're trying to do two shots. But you know, a two shot, like us on a couch, you can do with horizontal, on a vertical you can. But if what they're doing is like so they'll move me, either really close to you, so it looks like our faces are touching, which looks weird, or I stand behind you and talk to you over your shoulder, so they're all stacked up, like that's interesting, like a beatles album you know, what's going on here?
Speaker 2:yeah, so it looks so unnatural to me, um, but if somebody can crack you know sort of the vocabulary of what the vertical format is and rather than trying to, you know, I think we're trying to hold on to old, conventional yeah cinematic formats and cramming it into vertical rather than you know what.
Speaker 1:Invent a different style vertical, yeah I, I forget where I talked about this maybe it was on the pod but we talked about framing. Yes, I heard that. Yeah, you said on the pod.
Speaker 2:You wanted yeah, you want to do something that was told solely through doorway yeah, I thought that is fucking brilliant. That is exactly what the format. That is exactly what the format. The doorway is a natural vertical format and if you tell everything through that window, through that sort of framework, that justifies what the vertical format is.
Speaker 1:I forget his name, but he's a comedian on social media and YouTube. He has this whole sketch that's like a traditional framed short film and he has a whole monologue about this muffin being moist and it's hilarious because he goes on this whole spiel. That's like a little interstellar, a little arrival and like a little the fountain, but it's like pure comedy and he's great. But he does these little shorts where he talks to himself and it's all vertical and the way he frames it's just him the vertical frame cuts to the muffin exactly, yeah my kids love that type of stuff.
Speaker 1:I think that's the, the way that the visual language is is wanting to work in that framing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I hate to say just the attention span. Yeah, two of people I mean. Look, I'll admit I'm victim to it as well. Yeah, my patience for you know stuff has, you know, gotten harder. I mean, you and I were just discussing new mission impossible, which is like it's three hours, three hours long it's like it needs. Oh my god. Yeah, this is like you know. I've got kids, I've got stuff to do. I do not have time for it's all thrilling and adventure, but I you know yeah, it could have been.
Speaker 1:It could have been like a five episode mini, right exactly exactly, um, yeah, so so it's tough.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, yeah, but um, yeah, but it's always evolving and you know they're, you know, yeah, I mean uh, paramount, you know, just released original lindsey lohan, mean girls on tiktok yeah one, two minutes at a time, and people are eating it up exactly. They're rediscovering all this ip and, you know, discovering new audience by releasing it two minutes at a time, and if this is the way, we're all going to watch stuff now, maybe this is is the way. Yeah, you know, content goes. I don't know.
Speaker 1:I think it's going to just continue evolving like theater. Theater's been around for 2,000 years Exactly.
Speaker 2:It's not going away.
Speaker 1:Theater's changing. There's one-act plays, now there's 10-minute plays. Yep, previous guest Julia steyer, did a 10 minute place, wow, and like did a lot of them and they were great. And she's now has a lot of her stuff, you know, being performed all over the country. That's great. Um, it's theater. Yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:It's based on a 2000 year old, you know you know, but the idea of just storytelling, it's something that's embedded in our DNA. It's something that separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom. It's not opposing thumbs or communication or language. You know, yeah, animals have that, but no animal has a need to tell each other stories. You know, we feel this compulsion to tell each other stories, feel this compulsion to tell each other's stories, yeah, and you know, whether it's in a two hour or three hour movie, if you're, or a 60 minute pilot, or a 30 minute sitcom, or now these two minute episodes, or 30 second tiktok videos, yeah, if you have a story to tell, people want to hear it yeah, yeah so that does give me hope, you know, for sort of.
Speaker 2:You know, because, yeah, all our graduates coming out of you know, yeah, we're all terrified. It's like, how are we going to continue to do this? How can we possibly make a living doing this? And, you know, just trying to reassure them. If you can tell a good story, you know there will be a place for you somewhere everyone's going to need. Yeah, it may not be in features, but there will be somewhere yeah, no, I like that.
Speaker 1:I. I think storytelling is important because it it's such a a core part of so many different aspects of, like the, the what do you call the job market?
Speaker 2:let's say you know of everything in the industry there's.
Speaker 1:There are going to be aspects of storytelling, right and uh, you know scott galloway.
Speaker 2:Um, not that I listen to any other podcast, but he has a very successful podcast. He's a business professor at NYU. He actually used to be a UCLA alum as well. He just actually donated twelve million dollars to UCLA. But you know, he's a financial wizard and on a Q&A, a parent asked him once it's like OK, you know, there's a lot of stuff I discovered about finances and business that I wish I knew when I was younger. You know what should I be teaching my kids as I grow up? And he told them the one skill, the one important, vital skill you need to teach him is storytelling for you. Whether you want to get a job yeah, whether you want to get you know laid yeah yeah, you need to have a story, you need to have a good rap.
Speaker 2:Um, and you know, I know it sounds like it sometimes sounds like self-justification for me, because I'm still trying to get my parents approval you know, what I do for a living, but yeah storytelling is an extremely important skill it is I.
Speaker 1:I couldn't agree more and I I want to talk a little bit more about crafting that skill of storytelling, because we wanted to chat about film school you specifically from the professor side, me from the student side. But we'll save that for the fourth and final episode. All right, we'll see everyone next week. Thank you for listening and, george, thank you for coming on the pod.
Speaker 2:All right, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to the Anywood Podcast. You Thank you for listening to the Anywood Podcast. You can find us anywhere you find your podcasts or on YouTube on the Cinematography for Actors YouTube channel.
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