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Indiewood
A Podcast for Indie Filmmakers
In the world of social media, and fast-paced journalism, knowledge is abound. But with all the noise, finding the right information is near impossible. Especially if you’re a creative working in independent film.
Produced by Cinematography For Actors, the Indiewood podcast aims to fix that. This is a podcast about indie filmmakers and the many hats we wear in order to solve problems before, during, and after production.
Every month, award-winning Writer/Director Yaroslav Altunin is joined by a different guest co-host to swap hats, learn about the different aspects of the film industry, and how to implement all you learn into your work.
"We learn from indie filmmakers so we can become better filmmakers. Because we all want to be Hollywood, but first we have to be Indiewood."
Indiewood
The Starving Artist Fallacy: Redefining Success in Independent Film
The conventional wisdom that creative careers and steady jobs are mutually exclusive gets thoroughly debunked in this illuminating conversation with Julia Steyer, a multi-hyphenate talent making waves in independent film. As an actor, producer, playwright, screenwriter, and head of development at Cold Iron Pictures (the production company behind indie darlings like "Swiss Army Man"), Julia shares how finding stability transformed her creative journey.
Whether you're just beginning your creative journey or rethinking your approach to sustainability in the arts, this conversation provides a refreshing perspective on thriving in independent film.
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A Podcast for Indie Filmmakers
More on:
IG: @indiewoodpod
YT: Cinematography for Actors
In the world of social media, and fast-paced journalism, knowledge is abound. But with all the noise, finding the right information is near impossible. Especially if you’re a creative working in independent film.
Produced by Cinematography For Actors, the Indiewood podcast aims to fix that. This is a podcast about indie filmmakers and the many hats we wear in order to solve problems before, during, and after production.
Every month, award-winning Writer/Director Yaroslav Altunin is joined by a different guest co-host to swap hats, learn about the different aspects of the film industry, and how to implement all you learn into your work.
"We learn from indie filmmakers so we can become better filmmakers. Because we all want to be Hollywood, but first we have to be Indiewood."
Hello and welcome back to the IndieWood podcast, a podcast about independent film and the many hats filmmakers wear in order to get those films made. Every month, I'm joined by one of these filmmakers, where we talk about their approach to the craft and how they thrive in the visual medium of film. This month, I'm joined by an actor, a producer, a playwright and a screenwriter who's also on the 2025 Forbes 30 under 30 under the Hollywood and entertainment category Julia Steyer. Hello, hello, welcome back to the final episode, julia Steyer. Hello, hello, welcome back to the final episode. We've been chatting so much about your career writing, acting, producing, not directing, because we don't do that Not, directing, not here.
Speaker 2:I direct, you produce.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's things that we don't do. And then we talked a little bit about collaboration and then we kind of digressed into like notes on scripts, which was a lot of fun. I was like talking about screenplay writing, script writing, screenwriting. We've been talking a lot.
Speaker 3:I say, the words are blurring in my brain Wah, wah, wah, wah, wah wah wah.
Speaker 1:And so, in honoring kind of the craft of screenwriting, I wanted to introduce a plot twist and also add one more hyphen to your long list of hyphen, hyphenates, hyphenates, that's a word. You're also the head of development at Cold Iron Pictures. Yes, sir, which is like a phenomenal position to be in as a creative because you have so much access to the industry but also you kind of have this opportunity to really mold it into what you wanted to be. It's the best, yeah. And then, when we were prepping the episode, we talked a lot about this idea and you've mentioned this idea in one of the other episodes this idea of like, oh, don't take a desk job because it'll ruin your creative career. And you found that to not be the case.
Speaker 3:Correct, I think it's on so many levels.
Speaker 1:One so Cold. Iron pictures is an indie production company, so that's like I know what it is, so everybody else should know what it is, but please know, uh. Yeah, give me the spiel.
Speaker 3:This is such a uh, this podcast, and is such a perfect match because, yeah, we're an indie production company. Um, we're best known for, uh, doing Daniels's first film, swiss army man diary of a teenage girl, and we actually just had a really cool run at Sundance this year, uh, with our film by design, starring Juliette Lewis, um and written and directed by Amanda Kramer, who is a lovely, amazing avant-garde director. Um, her stuff is really, really cool If you want to see um, a director and a writer that has such a strong vision and aesthetic. I started at Cold Iron right after Liesl and so, and I started as an assistant and then, after about seven months, I was bumped up to coordinator slash like junior executive.
Speaker 1:Can I stop you right there? What does a coordinator? Do because I'm like you're developing yeah, but what's?
Speaker 3:my position is different because we're such a small company. Um, most coordinators, like if you're talking to like a coordinator at a management company, it's like this step between assistant and manager. So a lot of times, like coordinators like can start to get their own clients, but they still have to like help run stuff around, like the office and stuff. Whereas, like in production companies, a coordinator like I stopped doing assistant stuff which was like scheduling but I wasn't quite yet like on production calls. I was like in that middle spot of like I was taking generals with people and I was like reading scripts but I wasn't necessarily like making offers, whereas, like now it's had a development, like if I read a script that I really like, you know, I'm able to be like okay, you know. Here's the things that maybe we can or can't do. I still have to obviously talk to our CEO, but I just have a lot more power to get things going.
Speaker 1:See, they should do it. They should come up with a different name for that, because coordinator sounds like it doesn't fit that like half and half. That should be the name Half and half Half and half Half and half. Who are you at a production company? I'm half and half.
Speaker 3:My position was so different because when I became the coordinator, the director of development had left the company so there wasn't really anybody in that position and I knew I wanted that position so I just started doing it. I started making the look books. I started reading every script that came in. I started like. I said like when I made that, when I found like a script for my boss to direct, I was still a coordinator because I knew I wanted to be in the executive space, because it's just honestly, it's a lot more, it's a lot easier to be an executive than it is to be an assistant. Assistant is the hardest job in the world. Be nice to your reps assistants. Be nice to any assistant you ever email.
Speaker 1:Cause they're going to be head of development someday. Yes, and it's also like.
Speaker 3:I remember feeling this way when I was working on that disney plus show and the heads of disney were asking us to schedule meetings because they like couldn't, and I was like, oh my god, this town is run by 25 year olds yeah people don't realize. No, literally this entire town is run by a bunch of 25 to 30 year olds underpaid assistants who know how to get stuff done, and it's. They're amazing. So that's my little pro assistant spiel. But um, where was I going with this?
Speaker 1:just tell me about the company and your current trajectory in that space. Yeah, also like touching on this idea that you know, uh, everybody kept telling you, oh, the desk job is going to be great so I've actually found it to be well.
Speaker 3:I would say one of the first changes I noticed was on the acting front actually, and I had heard this before and it was like crazy experiencing it. For the first time. I was no longer walking to auditions with fear or desperation because my bills were getting paid and I think before I would go, you know, like before I was just like working in anthropology and like working, I think at one point I I literally had like 12 jobs at one, because I was like everything was I was piecemealing together my career, essentially, you know, it was like oh, you're getting some money from this publication, you're getting some money from anthropology, you're getting some money from this show, you're getting some money from this like, and so I would walk into auditions so desperate to get the job so that I could stop doing 12 and that's a lot. And like I, they always warned us about that they were like they can tell.
Speaker 3:And so I remember when I started at Cold Iron and it was like because even with Liesl, like it was flexible enough that I could go to my auditions, but I was kind of on call 24 7, and so there was still a lot of like oh okay, I need to, like I can't be fully present in this audition or whatever, because, like what, if you, my phone goes off or whatever? Um, again life of an assistant, so be nice to them. Um, and when I first started working at cold iron, it was the first time I had like hours like you start at you know nine and you end at five, and then I was able to like go home and and do my auditions and not have this like, oh dear God, please save me from you know.
Speaker 1:The black hole, the black hole.
Speaker 3:Yeah, of gig work. So that was one of the first changes I noticed. Obviously, I feel like I've become a better writer because of how much I read. I read so much and I'm also I mentioned on our break stage raw on the, the theater review website here in la, so I see a lot of theater too, and so I feel like, between writing my reviews for theater and reading these scripts through cold iron, I feel like my like media literacy has gotten so much stronger and I think, like I'm I feel like I've been able to bring that to my writing. Um, and it's like I will say, like I know everybody gives the advice of like read scripts, but it actually can be hard to like sit down and force yourself to read scripts yeah, especially if it's not that great.
Speaker 1:You know like I'm not saying you know every script is bad, but I remember interning for uh, voltage pictures and mich DeLuca, and was there another one? No, I didn't take that job, so there's only two. And I got some scripts and I was like pass, hard pass, and then it got made and guess what happened? Didn't do well Anyways, but like it helps you understand how a script gets made right, even if maybe it's not that good, but how the story changes and how it like goes from the page to the screen, which is so valuable.
Speaker 3:Yes, oh, absolutely, and I think too, it's like I'm also in a position where I get to give notes, and so that is also, I think, helped refine me as a writer, because I'm like, okay, if this was somebody else's script, what notes would I be giving?
Speaker 3:them like what's, and it's not always easy to do that to your own writing, so like that's why I'm still like with a writing coach and like writing groups, because it is really hard to like be impartial like that towards your own stuff. But I do think it's. It's helped me give a little bit more of a critical eye when I'm looking at my own things and then also like this might sound terrible, but like it boosts your confidence because you see some of the stuff that is repped by like reputable places and you're like.
Speaker 3:Ooh, I do not like this.
Speaker 1:I've read some stuff and I was like really, yeah, okay, read some stuff and I was like really yeah, okay, okay.
Speaker 3:And I think you know I don't think that's a bad thing to feel empowered by, by seeing what other things are out there. Um, but yeah, and, and I will say this has, this job has really opened so many doors for me. Um, I spoke on a panel on the main stage at AFM, made met some great connections that way. I just got flown out to speak on a panel at a festival in New York. Um, I'm getting to go to all of these. You know I, when we got into Sundance, I got to go there take meetings there, which was amazing. You know, they took me to Tribeca.
Speaker 1:Actually, the first week I worked at Cold Iron, they flew me to South by Southwest like it was crazy so you don't get that kind of access if you're just like oh, I'm a writer with a script in my drawer exactly and, like I am, I now know the names and emails of so many managers.
Speaker 3:Because, and again, and it's a balance right because I can't, and that can be hard. Right, because if I'm meeting with a lit manager about one of their clients, I can't really be like oh by the way, I'm also a writer.
Speaker 3:However, every relationship has to start somewhere, and so I'm a big believer of like. Well, if I'm getting you know, whether it's over Zoom or in person, I'm getting FaceTime with these people at big agencies, at big management companies, and, even though it's not appropriate right now for me to like, you know so and so, so to speak, cash in on these relationships, like they're starting and like I. I think a great example of like, how these can develop, is even when I was working for leasel, like one of the other assistants um, they were an assistant at wme and now they're a junior agent at uta and like I've kept in touch because our relationship was started. It wasn't necessarily appropriate at that time for me to be like, oh hey, like, do you want to look at my stuff? And not even saying that I would do that now at this moment, but it just showed me like relationships can start and grow as we grow and and.
Speaker 3:But they have to start, and it's really hard to get anyone to pay attention to you as you know, I don't have tv credits. It's really hard to get anybody to listen to you when you don't have that on the acting or writing side. And I will say something that can be a little hard in balancing those, those two identities, and I know you and I were talking about a lot about this during prep. I don't love going to networking events anymore because if I go and say I'm an actor, writer, no one wants to talk to me.
Speaker 3:If I go and I say I'm the head of development, everyone wants to talk to me about themselves yeah and I, and even if I'm like, oh well, I'm also an actor and a writer, like that gets completely overshadowed yeah um and and and it's hard because don't get me wrong part of my job as head of development is meeting new writers and is like, and so, and I love it.
Speaker 3:I love meeting other writers and like you know I, if you like meet somebody and you're like, okay, this is great, this project doesn't really work. But like I, really like you as a person, like you can keep these relationships going. But I don't necessarily, when I'm in a position outside of work where I'm trying to advance my own career, want to not be taken seriously because people don't think I'm worth talking to until I pull out this, but then it just feels not genuine because it's like well now I just feel like I'm being used, and I don't know if that's a champagne problem.
Speaker 3:To be perfectly honest, like I'm sure it's, that sounds really like oh boohoo, she has a nice position and she's really sad that people actually want to like talk to her about her position. But like, I give, I read so many like I give anyone a chance, like, truly like, because I, I say like, that's literally my job right.
Speaker 2:It's like if if any.
Speaker 3:If a manager or agent reaches out to me and is like I have this script, can you take a look? Like, of course, like that, I'm a big believer of casting a wide net. I think that's how new voices get discovered. I think that's how new stories get told, like I'm not just going to be like what are their credits? Like no, like that is literally my job is to discover new people. Again, that being said, I also, independently of it, I'm trying to grow my own career, and so it is a hard identity balance.
Speaker 1:Yeah, grow my own career, and so it is a hard identity balance.
Speaker 1:Yeah, coming back to that idea of like oh, they don't want to talk to you if you're just a writer, but they do want to talk to you if you're head of development, when, when we were kind of bringing, bringing this up and and talking about it off the pod, um, like that's kind of a little bit of a blessing in disguise, because are those really people you want to work with, like in in either capacity? Because I don't think they have your best interest in mind. They have their best interest in mind and and that's why I never liked going to those networking parties to begin with is everybody's there to like beat their own drum? Everybody's there to just you know, and and what you said about like just starting that relationship, it's just a relationship and it's about friendship and it's about having common interests and camaraderie and then down the road, maybe something will happen, maybe it won't.
Speaker 3:You have a friend, you're building your Rolodex too. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So coming back to that idea we had, where it's like you might not benefit from this relationship professionally, but then you can be like, oh, I have this other person who could be great, and then your network is growing and it's this web of of collaborators that you can then rely on in the future, and it's I mean coming back to this concept in episode two that we had where it's no work is wasted time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that goes to relationships as well. Like every lunch, every moment, everything you share with people in this industry isn't wasted time, unless they're terrible people. Then it's like that's just a waste, but you learn more about yourself in that instance.
Speaker 3:You know what I wish I was better at, though. I wish I was better at maintaining those relationships. It's hard, it's really hard, and I've I don't know about you, but I've tried the Excel sheet of contacts. I even bought this online thing that's supposed to organize your contact and I just I can't get myself to input it, and then I forget to follow up and then like so that's something, and again this comes back to beating myself up. I do find myself a lot of times being like Julia, like you have great access in this job and you are not doing enough to like upkeep these relationships, like you need to be sending an email like every four weeks, and my brain is like whoa and so like that is, if there's something that I, a skill that I do not have, that I wish I did, it's organizing my contacts and keeping up with people, because I really do think that that's a missed opportunity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I see you, I hear that and I think on some level that's valid, but I will say that the forced attempt to keep up the contact doesn't feel genuine that's fair, you know and, uh, there's people that I have had relationships with that I haven't talked to in years because, just I, I, every time I reached out I was like, hi, I'm here, I'm still writing, like, but then the relationships where I was like, how you do you do it? Yeah, like I have this thing, do you want to be a part of it? Like, hey, here's a genuine interaction, do you want it? Yeah, and they're like, yes, because people are so desperate for friendship in their 30s and me being in my 30s as well, my 30s Like it's hard to maintain friendships, but when you do do they're so meaningful and I guess, I guess the, the. The response to that is have less relationships, yeah, call your friend, friend group. You know, I look those people, uh, if it's important, if it's meant to be, if they're going to be um I don't want to say a value, that's not the right word if they're going to be um, if they're going to be good friends yeah if they're going to be good collaborators and vice versa, it won't matter if it's going to be good friends, if they're going to be
Speaker 1:good collaborators and vice versa. It won't matter if it's going to be next year yeah, you know if they're going to go off. And do you know? Real estate in Boca Raton? We try and be like, how's, how's that going? They're like, great, I bought a house. I'm like, wow, I live in an. Now I'm second guessing everything I've done, not to speak from experience. Oh my God. But that's just relationships and friendships, and I know that sounds really vague and simple, but it's hard.
Speaker 3:Well, and I agree with you about having a reason and I guess my most immediate example is one of the reasons I wish I kept better track of my contacts. You know, I blasted out that forbes thing when it came out like you know like, and it's hard to because, like, I've tried so many times to collect my contacts, so I have like six different excel sheets.
Speaker 1:You know what you need. I figured it out.
Speaker 3:You need like mailchimp yes, I've tried that, and but no, just never inputted all my stuff, so you're I probably restart. Put it all in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like a mail, not a mail service like a newsletter service.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like hey, because I used it for other things that I've been doing and it's helpful. Yeah, but I think managing is a career. Yeah, People have careers managing newsletters no, true.
Speaker 3:Sorry, I I'm gonna, that's right you still hear me, okay, um, but play drums. It's like my chin keeps going, um, but yeah, no, and so that's something with cold iron that you know, sometimes jobs are stressful yeah, like just point blank. Like any job, like I was stressed when I was working at anthropology, like I'm, you know it's, they're hard, and so I think something I'm so grateful for about this job is that truly, like every time I pause and I'm like think of all the wonderful things you're getting out of this.
Speaker 3:The list is long and that's such a wonderful feeling.
Speaker 1:Coming back to the first thing you said was stability. Yeah, like having a job and things. Like I found something as well that's writing. It's writing focused and is entertainment, is still entertainment. Like I'm not writing films and and features for that job, yeah, but like it's still very much in my bubble that I like makes me happy yeah and it's paying my. I've made more money this year than I've had in my entire life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm like oh, it's a nice feeling this is what, like being comfortable, feels like yeah I'm not saying like I'm rich or anything, but like I can pay my bills, I can put money in the savings and I'm not stressing about like paying rent and I can create so much from that place of safety.
Speaker 3:I can pay for my writing classes, right, my acting classes. I can go on vacation.
Speaker 1:I went to New York. Why? To walk around and have like food? Yeah, that's it. And have like food? Yeah that's it. Yeah, wild what that can do to your creativity you know.
Speaker 3:So I mean, I guess, go find a job. People listening, well, and I will say too like, think about how much instability this industry has been through in the past like five years. You know I I had a job through both strikes when I couldn't work as a writer and actor because I'm an indie. I'm an indie filmmaking.
Speaker 2:So it wasn't violating anything. I had a job I was.
Speaker 3:My job was to sit there and read scripts and like at the at that time cause there was nothing coming in or going out like maintain the office and like check in with people, but it's like I think about. I know a lot of people who are no longer in the industry and and I, I wake up every day and I'm like you know what, even if you don't, even if you were to never act or write again, you made it.
Speaker 3:You're paying your bills working in the industry. Like that was your measure of success. Like, so I'm obviously like the end goal is still, hopefully full-time acting and writing. But like I'm I like feel like I hacked the system by like getting a development job.
Speaker 1:I'm like, oh, everyone should do this yeah, well, what's interesting is is, I think we're this concept of like acting full-time and like writing full time comes with that caveat of doing other things, because even like A-list celebrities have other things.
Speaker 3:They all have their own production company and liquor line. Now, yeah, right, or?
Speaker 1:like you know what's his name? Uh, de Niro has, you know, restaurant chains. Yeah, um, what's her name? Not Halle Berry. Jessica Alba is a billionaire because she started Honest, or Honest, was it? I don't know she started some sort of like health drink line.
Speaker 3:Oh, no way. She's like a billionaire now, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Pop off, jessica, right, yeah, so, like Ryan Reynolds has Mint Mobile and we've talked about this on the pod before, but you know, doesn't he own? A soccer team, yeah, yeah, like that, I think the, the, the cell phone company, bought the, the soccer team. But, um, like, you have the opportunity to have a job, have a career, pay your bills, but also act and like have that be quote unquote full-time, yeah, you know, and have that also pay your bills, um, oh and also like one of my like goals in life is just traveling.
Speaker 3:Like my job sent me to korea, like I was like okay, great yeah this is the best job in the world like I got to go to korea to pitch a movie that I was going to be producing through my company. Like I was like this is so. I'm like sitting there in korea just being like pinch me, like this is insane and and that's like sparked so much creativity too, and it's just like it really is.
Speaker 3:Like I'm so mad at whoever said that a desk job would kill your career because there's just so much uncertainty and like, okay, fair as there may be, like if I didn't have a desk job, would that maybe like notch up the fire?
Speaker 3:10, you know 100, I don't know 10, 000, and so I'm like desperate, and now I'm like going to every single actor, free actor, networking thing yeah uh, maybe, but I've also did that when I was, you know, ages 22 to 25 or 27 like nothing really kept, like it's just I don't even know what I'm trying to say. Maybe cut all this this. I think that there is a myth that artists have to struggle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so much. Yes, we don't have to struggle. Yeah, because we can create. People are like, oh, only struggling artists create good art. False, yeah, false, because your creativity only flourishes when you're safe. I love that. That and maybe that's just me like regurgitating the artist's way, but like I felt that I was. When I struggled, I didn't feel like I was creating good art. I felt like I was just channeling pain and sure that could create something wonderful.
Speaker 1:But it was not me creating, it was me just being a prism for something that's happening externally oh, I love that um, and so when I got safe and chill and comfortable and I was like what do I do my brain's like I don't know, and then, and then we started playing, we started having fun. That's so real though yeah, because I remember when I was younger and I was like what brought me into, uh, writing, was this idea, that not this idea, but this, this concept of play I was just having a good time.
Speaker 1:I was a kid playing in the dirt, I was making things up and I was like, oh, I can do a move, I can, I can do this for a career. I can write movies about these like ideas that I have. And then down the road it became this like weird, channeling my struggle as an artist you know, and now I'm like oh, let's return back to that moment where I'm a kid and I'm playing I love that and then from there so many cool, awesome things can, can, can, like go onto the page.
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah, and also like you create good stuff when you have a roof over your head like you have food in your stomach like that's. Like. That's the thing I'm like.
Speaker 3:I just it doesn't feel desperate it doesn't feel desperate and, like I said, I really think it changes how you show up into a room. I think I think also you get more jobs if people want to be around you, like do you know how many times I've heard like oh yeah, okay, both people are qualified. But like that guy, I would want to run into him at 2 am because we're on set whereas that guy not so much To add to that.
Speaker 1:I think if you are desperate, you might take a thing, a job, a script, a role that might not be the best working relationship and thankfully, I've been in positions where I'm like, no, I'm good, thanks, even when I needed. Positions where I'm like, no, I'm good, thanks. Like even when I needed it. I'm like I don't want to work with you, yeah. But I've seen people be like I need this and I'm gonna work with that person. I'm like you shouldn't. And then down the road I'm like, hey, see, you told you so and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but you know, I'm not saying that there's a. These are hard and fast rules. There are exceptions, but yeah, I mean, desperation can lead to a lot of shit, yeah.
Speaker 3:And and I guess what I was trying to say earlier, before all my words got jumbled, was there is a worry sometimes that because I'm comfortable, it's dimmed the fire under my feet.
Speaker 3:And yeah, so there is that fear of like, okay, if I didn't have this job, would I be going to you know every you know, spending money on casting director workshops constantly? Or would I be trying to get involved in like every single free reading around town just to get myself seen? And like, maybe, but again, I really feel like I have tried that tactic and it didn't of working harder, not smarter, and it didn't move the dial here's my question is that you coming from a place of as a desperate actor, or coming from a place of a safe, creative?
Speaker 3:Ooh yeah, it would be desperate actor.
Speaker 1:So maybe it's, you know, it's just a remnant of something that was in the past. Yeah, and now you're finding new ways and new foundations. Oh, I love that To create.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because it's and that's like something I've talked to other friends about is when we've gotten desk jobs of like. Does that erase my identity as an actor?
Speaker 1:And it my identity as an actor, and it's, it's I don't think it does, but that fear comes up. Yeah, but that's also like. You know somebody who's jealous who's? Suffering who's you know, like telling you that, like, oh, you have to it's, you know it's. That's generational trauma.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there we go, yeah boom I, I do want to as we wrap up uh, you know, not only this episode, but, like your time on the pod, um, I want to. I want to ask because you've had interns for cold iron pictures and you are always adamant about giving them advice I want to hear, like what, what are the the consistent nuggets that you share with people? What are the consistent questions that interns ask and what do you tell them? Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:Um, it's one of my favorite things about the job is getting to talk to these college students and just be like hey, here's some of the pitfalls I fell into. You know, you do not have to take any of this advice. Anyone who tells you that this is the only way to do it run yeah, they're wrong run and they're wrong Run and they're wrong.
Speaker 3:That is terrifying, and a lot of them are screenwriters, so it's a little bit more geared towards that. But I just try to tell them the things that I've picked up along the way. I tell them first, I dispel the myth that the desk job will kill their dreams. Basically and a big piece of advice I give a lot is to become an assistant, either at an agency or a management company or a production company. And because I didn't enter the assistant world until I was like 25 you know what I mean and like, which is fine, that's still like I was still able to like pick things up. But it's like I got lucky that it was with somebody during the pandemic who like allowed me to fail. Like when I look back on it, I was like, oh, I was not a greatest. Like I didn't. Like I tried my best, but like I did not know what I was doing. Like rolling calls never heard of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I don't know what that is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah whereas, like, if I hadn't had that and I decided one day like, oh, I want to be an assistant because I want to, like, work my way up, I don't know that I would have gotten hired, because by the time you're 26, 27, they want someone who's been an assistant before and they're going to be a little bit harder on you. Whereas, like, if you're like 22, they're going to be like, okay, this is your first job. And another big myth assistant, not an entry-level job no a lot of people think it is entry it'll pay
Speaker 3:yeah, that's true, but it's hard and a lot of places want somebody who's been an assistant before, um, or has like worked in the mailroom. So I tell a lot of them I'm like working in a mailroom and an agency might be like the way in. I warn them that's going to be hard. I warn them that it's not easy, um, but if they're able to like show up and take stock of the access that they have and the opportunities that they have, they can really make the job work for them in addition to, you know, working for it, um, so that's a big piece of advice, um. Oh gosh, now.
Speaker 3:Now it's like all going out of my head um, I also, you know, I encourage them to select their mentors carefully as well. Um, I know there's like a lot of these online and I've I've fallen prey to so many of these because I was like, oh, it's an online class that I can take and it'll, you know, like those pre-recorded, like how to brand yourself as an actor and get all these reps and how to become a amazing writer in 10 weeks I have some of those classes on my hard drive.
Speaker 3:I have so many of them and I'm like part of me is like I should probably log in and actually take those, so I just warn them about those. I'm like select those things that want your money and those mentors, all these online mentor programs, carefully. I was like, because anything will take your money.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So it's up to you to kind of like, look into it, see what's worth it, um, and then I just like you know small things like, uh, I, I tell them to not just throw all their money at any film festival that'll give them a laurel. I'm like, again, a lot of things that will take their money. And then this one I don't know if any of them have taken it. I'd be very curious hear. But if they have scripts that they're like I don't know what to do with it, I recommend they turn it into a play. And I said, because plays don't usually play, competitions, don't usually take fees, and so I was like so if you just want to hear it up on its feet, I was like submit it to a theater.
Speaker 1:That's a really good. You know what? I'm going to steal that? Because that is a really good way of getting your work.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, and then it builds your credibility.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because it's like I said, like some of my short films started as plays and I was able to be like it's been like it's, and I was able to be like it's been like it's. One of my favorite things in my bio is that my work has been seen on stages from Alaska to New York, because I just submit everywhere and it's yeah, I've gotten to go to Alaska for a theater competition. Like I've gotten to produce my show in or, sorry, theater festival. I've gotten to produce my show in New York. Like I think it's so important that you start to build your credibility and it's really hard, especially right now. It is really hard to break in as a screenwriter. So many of the places that people were able to cut their teeth as a TV writer, like the CW, are gone, don't exist anymore.
Speaker 3:Movies are getting more expensive because the ROIs aren't there and so nobody's invested. Like it's getting really hard to get people to invest and managers don't want you or agents don't want you until you already have credits. And so I'm like create your own hype, like create your own portfolio, and I really think the best way for writers to break in is through theater yeah, I hear that especially if you already have it written.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, yeah I mean, like I said no, uh, in episode one, you know, uh, nobody cares until they care. Oh, yeah, and how do you climb that ladder to that treehouse of success? There is no ladder. Yeah, you could literally fly in a plane, jump onto the treehouse. There's literally a gazillion ways to do it and hopefully, after these four episodes, people have some insight into breaking through as a creative, as an actor, as a producer, as a director, as a writer, as a boom op as a cinematographer, Create your own work.
Speaker 1:The industry's evolved so much. The indie mindset is now how you thrive. I think and how people find success. Make your own stuff. Yeah, yeah, julia, thank you for coming on the pod.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:For sharing all the insight, your career, your life, your ups and downs. I think there's been a lot of really cool, fun stuff that I also learned. I was like I want to steal that.
Speaker 3:I'm going to go do that.
Speaker 1:I'm going to go write a play. Uh, so for everybody at home, go make your own stuff, go turn your short into a play or your play into a short. Um and uh, keep keep writing, keep creating thank you so much for having me. This has been a pleasure all right, everyone, until next week. Thank you for listening to the anywood podcast. You can find us anywhere you find your podcasts or on youtube on the Cinematography for Actors YouTube channel. See you next week.
Speaker 2:From the CFA Network. Cinematography for Actors is bridging the gap through education and community building. Find out about us and listen to our other podcast at cinematographyforactorscom. Cinematography for Actors Institute is a 501c3 nonprofit. For more information on fiscal sponsorship donations because we're tax exempt now, so it's a tax write-off and upcoming education, you can email us at contact at cinematographyforactorscom. Thanks.