Holidays, Family Drama, & Healthy Boundaries: A Real Conversation-Episode 13

The holidays are here — which means food, family, expectations, stress, joy, and sometimes… a whole lot of tension.

In this episode of the Yes, Dear Podcast, we get real about the messy, funny, challenging, and meaningful parts of navigating the holidays as a couple. From forgotten recordings and outdated vocabulary (“knapsack,” anyone?) to family conflicts, boundaries, grief, and choosing to show up differently this year — we cover it all.

We talk about:

• Why expectations shape every holiday
• How to stay grounded when family dynamics get tough
• Why old conflicts feel louder during the holidays
• The power of showing up with no “sparring gloves”
• Healthy boundaries that bring peace, not distance
• Seeing each other as teammates instead of opponents
• What it looks like to leave a holiday saying, “We’re better than we’ve ever been.”

Whether your holiday season brings joy, heaviness, tension, or a mix of everything, this episode offers support, perspective, and a whole lot of real-life encouragement.

You’re on the same team.
You get to hold each other’s hearts.
And you get to write a new story this season.

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Transcript

Wow. Recording in progress. I guess we need to say that every week just to remind ourselves that we are actually recording. I guess so. Now we did that last week, right? We did remember last week and we even acknowledged we admitted that you forgot to hit the record button when we recorded. Uh-huh. Yeah. Men are always blaming women for all this stuff. We should do an episode on forgiveness because I forgive you for doing that. Oh, you're swell. Wow. That's true. It doesn't matter if we remembered last week. Every week is different. And I feel like even though we're at the middle of our life, that seems to be when we start, I don't know. Forgetting things or remembering things. Well, sometimes we forget. We're busy. We'll say it that way. I know for me some of the things. I notice this. I'm forgetting when I forget. I'm half listening because I'm busy. You know what I mean? So you're like half doing things. But again, it goes back to multitasking really as a multitasking. Well, how funny is it that the episode that we didn't record was on distractions? It's true. It was true. It was. And some day in the future, we'll talk about that one, not right now because we still obviously struggle with that one. Uh-huh. Why were you looking at me when you said that? Well, also, I guess I could talk to myself. I respond. Yeah. That's fair. It is just the two of us. Well, I guess we started. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Yes Dear podcast. Hello, Dana Lyons. Good to see you again. You too. My name is Patrick. I'm just one of the peeps on this show. Do people say that anymore? No, don't say it. You have this way of using all old words that people don't ever use. An impressive way, like a powerful way of using old words and new and innovative ways. Is that what you were? Innovative. Innovative. It's not innovative. It's not. What is it then? It's ridiculous. That's what it is. I want to know if anybody listening actually calls a backpack and knapsack. Just say it. Put it in the comments because I want to know. That's where it is. And you said it with such confidence as if we all carry a knapsack around. I do. What was the other word? I feel like-- You say them all the time. I do. And we all look around going. I can't help it that I have a broad vocabulary. What does that mean? Does it get at you any extra places? That's what I want to know. No. Well, you never know what the password to the club is going to be. And so-- Well, yeah, you're right. What's the one that I watched with Danny, the cooking show with Bobby Frye? Yeah. His triple threat. And he opens the door and he goes, "What's the password?" And they say something. That's what I'm saying. You're going to whip something out and it's going to be-- That's it. So today, we're going to get to the club and the password is going to be knapsack. And then you'll appreciate me. Then. Then I will. But until then-- Finally. Finally. Nope. What do you want to talk about today? I don't know. What do you want to talk about? Well, the holidays are upon us. Do we want to talk about the holidays? I realized, as I was thinking about today, I realized the last couple episodes seemed like they were about the kids and this is a marriage podcast. So I'm done. They're a waste of time and energy. I don't know. What's the holidays? What do you want to talk about about the holidays? I don't know. I was just thinking about how the holidays can be challenging. They can be stressful. Sure. But like every other issue that materializes in a marriage, it always comes down to expectations. And so expectations for the holidays or I don't know. It doesn't even have to be-- I don't know. I was just pulling something out of the air. Just like catch it. Pull it. No, I think that's a good one. I mean, Thanksgiving is next week. I mean, somebody might be listening to this by some other holiday. So the holiday doesn't necessarily matter. But yeah, holidays, they could bring lots of stress, but they also bring people together. So it's not always bad. Well, it's not bad as long as you like the people that it's bringing together. Correct. That's the key right there. I say that kind of jokingly, but kind of not, right, in the work that we do with marriages, but also in businesses. Sometimes the holidays can be super stressful. Like it's just-- I've been sharing this with more and more business leaders. And that is-- so what's going on out there? What's going on on social media? What's going on in our society? What's going on in our politics? All the divisiveness. It's naive to think that that's not going to make its way into the business or it's naive to think it's not going to make its way into Thanksgiving. So how-- what do you do with that? What do you do with that? You know, when you've got people sitting around the table that-- in truth, we have way more in common with than we have in difference, right? We have way more in common than not. I would agree. And yet we focus-- we can get really riled up about the differences. And then that becomes the story of the-- of our time together becomes the story, you know, becomes the stories we retell after the holidays or after the family comes together. By no means are we immune from that. By no means, you know, our family's not perfect. Well, mine is, but nothing. I was expecting something. I'm going to let you just fall flat on that one all by yourself. I mean, I think it's interesting. You and I both tend to be the black sheep of our family. So whatever that means, good or bad, I don't know. But we are not immune to the dynamics of different people with different opinions and different needs and desires and fears and concerns and anxieties and stories. And like, we're not immune to what happens when all of that-- all those differences come together. And there again, I think we can either choose to focus on what we have that's different or what we have in common. I agree. I think it's focus. Wait, can you say that part again? You what? Well, I agree with what you're saying. Yes, I-- you just want to hear that I agree with you. I did, yeah. You know, the truth is, everybody needs to know most of the time. Well, no, we're a perfect couple that I think, you know, for some who are going to be listening, you're probably not in your head. And you know that Thanksgiving is going to be a real-- you know, they're going to go, yeah, I hate the holidays because our family always fights. We're very divided. I remember-- I mean, there are families who don't talk politics and don't talk-- Religion. --religion because that is such a dividing conversation. And it doesn't need to be. I think we get focused on the things where people don't agree. And we have-- humans have this-- why people feel like they have to push on somebody else what they believe. And they're angry when somebody doesn't believe the same thing. But it's the beauty of what makes this world a beautiful place is we're all not the same. Otherwise, we'd be like AI robots. And does that what people-- is that what people really want? I mean, honestly, that is what they want then. Because then we're all-- we all look the same, walk the same, talk the same, think the same. And man, that is scary. I think the-- honestly, I think the challenge is that a lot of people would say, yes, that is what I want. And that's why. We've been conditioned for all of the great things. And this is not a-- I don't at all mean to make this like a rant about social media because like everything else, everything that is out there, literally everything that's out there can be used for good and it can be abused and used for bad. And social media is exactly one of those things. It has a great way of connecting us and we use it a lot in our business. We use it on this podcast. So it's not at all that social media is bad, but the algorithms and social media-- we all know this. The algorithms quickly figure out what I like and the purpose of whatever the platform is, the purpose of TikTok, the purpose of Instagram is not to have me leave anytime soon. It's to keep me there. And so it continues to give me more of what I like, which on the surface sounds really good, but then it also figures out that by giving me what I don't like, I'm more likely to leave it. So social media creates echo chambers. So I think because of that, we are less open to different ideas, different opinions than we used to be. We just have to acknowledge that. And then we don't want people at the Thanksgiving table who don't agree with us. And we don't want people who might challenge our way of thinking. And we want to make Thanksgiving an echo chamber. We want to make Christmas an echo chamber. We want to make our immediate family an echo chamber. What's coming to mind for me is-- and this has nothing to do with social media, more just to do with-- I'm thinking about around the Thanksgiving table about the challenging relationships. Again, some people who are listening may just really be looking forward to getting together with family. It just always brings laughter and joy, and that's awesome. Others may be already feeling anxious about someone who's coming that they just don't connect with, or they just don't jive. So I think about, without going into specifics about who the person is, there's certainly one person in my family that for years and years, I had a really hard time connecting with. And in fact, most of the time it was an adversarial relationship. And this is the visual. I used to think going into those conversations that I needed to have my gloves up. I needed to have my fists up. I needed to be ready because I knew that this person was going to throw punches, and I had to be ready to block those punches and punch back. And there were plenty of times where, like leading up to the conversation where I'd be like, "You know what? I'm not going to do that this time. I'm not going to do that." And I would visualize-- silly as it may sound-- I'd visualize, "I'm just going to keep my gloves down to my side. I'm not even going to have my fists up. I'm not going to have my gloves up. I'm going to keep my gloves down to the side." But invariably, you get in those conversations with people you don't jive with, and it would happen, and this person would throw a punch, and I'd keep my gloves down as long as I possibly could. And obviously, they weren't literal punches. You know, they're just sparring. They throw a punch, and I'd keep the gloves down. You take a few shots, and I'd always put the gloves up again, because you get pushed around. You get poked and prodded, and eventually you get-- you want to fight back, and you want to protect yourself, and then fight back. And for me, when everything changed was when I started realizing, I'm not even going to-- I know it sounds, again, silly, but this is what changed for me was, I'm not even going to bring gloves to the conversation. Like, I'm just not going to-- I'm not even going to bring gloves, because there's no fighting to do. I don't need to protect myself. I don't need to fight back. There's no fight to have, so I don't even need to bring these gloves. And literally, everything changed in that relationship. And-- but here's what's fascinating, and I guess this is-- for whoever it is that's coming for Thanksgiving that you're dreading, good luck changing that other person. Like, for me, that's for years, it was like wanting to change that other person. But the-- where it-- where the relationship actually changed is when I changed. When I stopped seeing this person as an adversary, and I started seeing them as somebody that I just want to love, right, where they are. And I don't need to disagree. I don't need to fight. I don't even need to-- you know, and so sure in the beginning, they threw some punches, but I didn't know gloves. And so there was no-- you know, it was like, I just-- I didn't even engage. I didn't need to engage. And it just goes to show that if you're willing to make the change yourself, then you can completely re-see anybody. And we're-- let's bring it back to the context of the family, families and friends that's coming together on the holidays that you're dreading. How do you see them differently? How do you see them with love? How do you see them-- how do you honor and acknowledge their differences as opposed to being ready to fight and defend yourself? Obviously, this whole time I've been talking about you-- That's because you're doing all the talking and I'm being quiet because I don't have to put on my punching gloves. Yeah. No. It's hard. I mean, it's challenging for a lot of families and especially if you're working together, then you're together at work. You're together at home and then you have to have a holiday. And what is there to celebrate if you are one, already struggling, and then two, actually are a polar opposite size, whether it's politics or anything else. We have just become a society where if you're different than me, I have to put up a wall. And it's sad that-- but how do you get to a place? What if we actually just-- here's what I really do. I think we'd make a whole lot of progress if we would-- and they say this all the time. And so I only mean this partially. I don't want to say this is a blanket statement and just leave it there. Let's come together on what we agree with. Okay, people say that but then they don't do it, right? Then they get triggered. But what if you actually went into that before you stepped into the house or whatever, got out of bed, is to really think, how can we make this better than we've ever been? We always come back to that when we help couples, when we help family businesses, when we help friends or whoever we're working with. Our heart is always, "Gosh, when I hear those words and you get like, 'How are you guys doing?' We're better than we've ever been." And I'm like, "Oh man, it's some of my favorite phrases to hear whether I'm individually working one-on-one, whether I'm mentoring or working with a white." And when she goes, "I'm better than I've ever been." It's like, that to me is so forward-moving. It's not saying you're perfect. It's not saying you don't have challenges. It's not saying you're not struggling. It's just like, "But I am better than I've ever been." It's like a really good place and it's forward-moving. It's hopeful. It's energy. And that I know is our heart, especially then with families. It's like, "Yeah, you've got to work through your stuff." But what if you actually said this year, no matter what the holiday, depending on when you watch this, is what if people just started saying, "Hey, what if we this year just start and end by the time we walk away, just go, "Man, that's better than we've ever been." Whether it be you decide like you, not to spar, whether you decide, "Gosh, we don't have to spit opinions out." We don't have to spit them out for the sake of making sure you know you're right and then questioning somebody else's opinion. What if we actually came together? I mean, why do you get together? I mean, if you really don't like the people, why are you getting together? And I think because deep down, one, it's either obligation, you hate it. So let us give you the permission why you're still doing that. And two, ultimately, I think people do because they have this love/hate, right? I love them, but I don't like them. You hear a lot of people say that. "Oh, I love my family, but I don't like them." Okay, then the only person at the table you can change is you. That's it. So what if you looked in the mirror that day and every day and just start this habit? Is I take full ownership or responsibility for you? I don't know how anybody else is going to respond or react or react. I mean, I don't know what they're going to say. I take full responsibility in the only part because I want to go to bed at night going. I liked how I lived today. I could go to bed at night and I could have peace. And some of that is dealing with people who are challenging to the core. But what if you actually just did it different? So that with the mindset of I'm going to get to this place where I could say, "I'm better than I've ever been." Because when you are, it actually impacts those around you. And even the ones you don't get along with, they'll be like, "What's going on? You're like a little different. Carry yourself different. You've got a different look. You're not fighting or sparring like you used to." 100%. That may be the only thing. They may now do this with other family members, but not with you. And then the following year, and that's a step forward. That I think is still better than I've ever been. Why? Well, they didn't, you know, you're not responding or reacting. And then the following year, it changes a little bit. Or the next holiday happens less. And then that rubs off on some of it. You just never know the seeds that are planting. But you can't get your mother to change. You can't get your cousin fifth down the line to change. You can't help your neighbor who you can't stand inviting over, but you feel bad because they live alone. You can't get them to change, but you can change. Yep. I was, so the question I've been holding on to, because you talked a really long time, was, hey, you said it. I'm sending you somewhere else for Thanksgiving. The question I was holding on to when you were talking about people that you've talked to who said they're better than they've ever been. Yeah. The question is what changed? And I feel like it's kind of a leading question. So like, did their circumstances change? Or did they change? They changed. Right, they changed. And then, but here's what happens. And I go back to, you know, that my sparring partner for decades, they didn't change. I changed. But then, because I changed long enough, I changed the dynamic of the relationship. And then they changed. Not because it's like they were like, hey, I've noticed you're doing this. So now I'm going to do it. It's like, wow, you're not sparring with me anymore. And so it's almost like then their defense is lowered. And they started to communicate with me differently. And so I ended up getting exactly what I wanted all those years, which is this person showed up differently with me, but not by me expecting them to change, not by me waiting for them to change, because I was waiting a long time. It happened because I changed. And I want to be clear. I didn't change with the intent to manipulate this person and make them change. I just changed because I was tired of the circumstances that I was in. And it's the root of the question I asked you. Did the circumstances change or did you change? If you're waiting for the circumstances to change, you may be waiting a long time. But if you change first, A, you will instantly see your circumstances differently and experiencing differently, find more peace, find more joy. And in time, you will actually influence your circumstances because of how you're showing up. Like you said, whether it's the next holiday or the next interaction, the next year, you've now shown up differently long enough. This is not just a one-time thing. You really have to commit to, "I'm just kind of tired of the way it's been and I want to see it change." So it's the old be the change, which sounds hokey, but man, there's a reason people say it. It works. It works and you can influence your circumstances. And so whatever the holiday is this season, if you're bracing for the chaos, I think of it this way. I often say you don't have to match dysfunction with dysfunction. So somebody in the family shows up and they're already off. In the direction that you thought they were going to go, you can certainly meet that chaos with chaos or that dysfunction with dysfunction, but then it just escalates it. And now they're more intense and then you have to get more intense. And now you have manifested what you were worried about all along. Yep, it turned into chaos. I knew it was going to happen. Whereas if you go in and you don't even have your gloves on and you just don't give credence to those things, you don't have to die on every hill. You don't have to fight every battle. But you can win the war of making it better than it's ever been just by how you choose to see it and show up and respond. And for some, they're going to change so much. The family or friends, whoever you're getting together with, year after year and you decide, "I'm going to change." For some, they change and they'll see the effect of that. It rubs off on somebody else and somebody else. And before long, you're like five, ten years in, you're like, "Wow, it's changing. The family's changing so much." There are others, let's not ignore, that the family does not change or the friend group does not change. And the person who decided to change actually has peace and it does come from a place in love where you just go, "I'm not coming this year." And they don't come anymore. And that's okay too. When it comes from a place of love and respect of your own self and to respect people enough to say, "This is done and I'm not coming anymore." And you have to love family or friends from a distance. That happens too. Because so often, we live this life of like this... You have a lot of family members. I'm not saying you, but people have family members or even maybe this is them and they're like, "I'm not going." And they're going to be there and, "Oh, I don't get along with any of them." And when you hear some people like that and I hear it and you have to say, "Dude, check your heart because you sound like you are covered with bitterness and resentment and hate and rage." And you're like, "The one person it's killing is you." And they could stand in that, "I'm so mad, but there's deep down, and you just watch so many people die in that state and it's really sad." And they think they're hurting other people when the ones they're hurting really is themselves. People are dysfunctional and think different than us, have their own triggers, they have their own experiences that bring those triggers and there's always a story behind people's behavior. Doesn't mean you have to put up with it and be a punching bag or a doormat or be disrespected so the behavior is not excusable. But what if you were there to say, "It's going to be better than it's ever been and I'm going to change and sometimes if you get to that place to go, you know what, I really have peace and this is what I have to do." From my own respect, protection, whatever, this is a thank you, but no thank you, I will not be there this year and maybe that's where it goes and it's just that alone is a change some people have to make. And that's okay. What you're talking about is an important part of healthy boundaries. And it's very different from, again, we want to be careful that we're not creating our own echo chamber like by, "Okay, I'm just not going to go around the people that think differently for me because I'm uncomfortable with that. It's not about being comfortable." But sometimes when a relationship isn't healthy, then I should not, let me not say sometimes. When a relationship isn't healthy, it's important to minimize, it's healthy, it's good to minimize your interactions or your exposure to that relationship, but it's not, and this is what I'm just reiterating what you're saying, it's not a matter of cutting you off and saying you're dead to me because when that happens, it is, there's unresolved bitterness, resentment, disappointment, frustration, anger, and that just eats you alive to the point where every time I think of your name or every time I hear that you're going to be someplace, I'm angry, I'm feeling all that emotion. That's not-- And they spit fire. That's it. What we're really saying is for healthy boundaries, it's about loving somebody from a distance, and that involves forgiveness. That's to say, "Listen, I love you and I forgive you, I release you from any of the harm or the hurts that you've caused me." It's a supernatural thing. It's not something we can do in our own strength, I believe, but it is something that's necessary to say, "I love you," but I'm going to minimize the interactions I have with you because it's not healthy, it's not good for either one of us. And you do that, it's not for the other person. You can say, "Well, why should I forgive that person?" And they haven't apologized, they haven't made up for what they did, or it's all their fault, "Well, okay, but again, forgiveness is not for the other person. It's for you, it's so that you can breathe, so you can be at peace and have healthy relationships." I do want to bring this back to, again, this is a marriage podcast. So let's talk about, to me, it's the reminder, and we just talked about this as we were working with a couple literally before we were recording, and that's whatever the situation that you're going into. If it's going to be stressful, it's going to be challenging, just remember that you and your spouse are on the same team. - Same team? - You're on the same team. The analogy, I may have used this before, but I use it a lot in the marriage work, and that's, if you've ever gone to a youth basketball game, like in particular, like the young boys, like elementary school boys, who they just know when the ball comes down, I'm supposed to get the rebound. And so two kids from the same team grab the ball, and what do they do? They both close their eyes, and they're using all their strength to rip the ball away from the person who is their teammate, but they don't know that because their eyes are closed, and all they can think about is, "I need this ball." And everybody in the stands is always yelling the same thing. They're always yelling, "Same team, same team," and that's what gets them to open their eyes and go, "Oh, okay, here, you take it." And that's the visual that I try to think about with us, and I know we coach this, is like whatever the issue is, it's not you and your spouse on opposite sides with this issue in between you. It's you and your spouse on the same team, on the same side, and the issue stands between you and intimacy. So if you think about going into the holidays, if it is stressful, that's, you know, it's hard enough, what we've been talking about, it's hard enough to deal with family members where we've got unresolved conflict and/or unclear boundaries, or we're just used to sparring, but it's that much harder when you and your spouse, when you and I aren't on the same team, and one of us is trying to deal with that, and this is where we're supposed to be able to support each other and love each other and encourage each other. And so, I don't know, just bring that mantra into whatever it is that you're walking into in the holidays, or and beyond the same team. Yeah, and I think when it comes to the holidays, any issue really, but since we're on holidays, when a couple has to remind themselves, you know, hey, we can't forget we're on the same team, because sometimes you're dealing with one family or another, and it could be stressful on either side. It could also come down to, I would encourage people, is what's, talk about the expectation, what do you expect this holiday to be like? Because so often you could get kind of partway through a holiday, and it seems like it goes south, and then you got to put on the smile phase and pretend, we're good until we get up in the bedroom, we're going to have words, or some couples fight right there in front of people, and it's, a lot of times it comes down to the expectation of what that holiday was going to be like, and who was going to do what, and you showing up, and you didn't, you know, they just fight over. You didn't protect me with, I mean, I think we need each other to, we need to protect each other in these, ah. It doesn't always mean you agree with each other. Agree. So I don't think, you know, you have to agree, but I don't think you need to, what you want from your spouse is, don't let me get thrown to the dogs, and you're one of the dogs who's trying to tear me apart with everybody else because you disagree with me, but it's really honoring one another through the whole thing, because if you disagree, or something gets heated, or something goes south, talk about it when it's the right time, but remind yourself, we're on the same team. Yeah. Maybe you didn't talk about it enough about what the week was going to look like, or the holiday was going to look like, and because I think that's where we get fractured. And then we don't talk about it, and then it's like, are you okay? I'm fine. And you miss the entire holiday because everything's tense, because we didn't talk, and then in the end, you're like, oh, that's what you're mad about? Oh, you should have asked me, because I wasn't mad about that at all, right? I didn't have a problem when you did that. It's this, and so it's missed opportunity just to say, before we go to bed, or before we start tomorrow, I just, this hurt my feelings, or I felt like we weren't on the same team. So it's always coming back to that alignment that we talk about a lot, right? It's like getting aligned. If we're aligned, we could take on the world. But when we're misaligned, and we're coming at each other, then it doesn't matter what we're going through, good or bad, it's just either not as enjoyable, or it's harder than it has to be, because we're just not aligned. To me, the visual is to remember, and now we say this, I don't have to, I get to, and so in whatever situations we find ourselves in in this holiday, it's my responsibility, it's my opportunity, I get to, it's my honor to hold your heart, right? I get to hold your heart. And whatever, again, whatever that looks like, it's challenging when family relationships, when family, like I would never let a perfect stranger insult you or harm you, and yet you get into family relationships, and we find ourselves going, "Well, that's just how my parents are, "or that's just how your mom is, "or that's just how my brother-in-law is." And no, I'm holding your heart, and you're holding mine, and how do we protect and honor each other, not because we have to, but because we get to. And not only with family members, but it's also, a lot of people fight, and they throw out the words, "You know how I am, "that's just the way I am." Oh, I had that try to stress. When we start getting tense, right? When we start, for whatever reason, we find ourselves, we're in a fight, and somebody can throw, "Oh, that's just the way I am. "You know I bl-l-lip and fill in the blank?" Oh. And yet, let's go back to marriage. We get to do that for each other. We're on the same team. Get realigned, because here's the hard truth. If you don't, somebody else will. Yeah. And I will just say this, we have to... We're not too... We're not so great in bed, or with our paycheck, or in the kitchen, that people won't leave. Yeah. So if you're fighting about the same old, same old things, and you're at withdrawal, you're in a really vulnerable place, and we just want to warn you, maybe that's something you just... Hey, I'm going to get to this place, I'm just taking ownership of how I respond, how I see things, what I focus on, and I'm going to move to a place of better than I've ever been, and how do I just change? How do I go into our holiday differently? How do I respond differently? For some, it's just start sharing your feelings. Just start saying, "Hey, that hurt my feelings." "Hey, when you did this, it made me feel bad." Because some we just, we pent up all this stuff, and it just exploded, and then we do so much more damage that you're killing the spirit, and for some, you're going to kill the relationship. Happens all the time. We deal with couples all the time where they say that it's like... And I hate to say it, this is so common, but if you don't for your spouse, somebody else will show up for them. Yeah, and for me, that's a trigger phrase when you said, "Well, that's just... Either that's just how I am, or we use that to make excuses for other people." That's just how he is. That's just how she is, right? And that's a trigger for me because it is an excuse that allows a person to continue, or allows yourself to continue to behave poorly. And really, that's not just how I am. That's how I'm choosing to behave. And when we acknowledge that, that it's not like a... It's not like, "Well, hey, I'm six feet tall." There is truly nothing I can do about that. I'm kind of stuck with that. But if there's a habit or a behavior or a way that I'm speaking with you or... You said earlier, like, "I'm jumping in with my family and I'm shredding you and it's ha-ha, it's all just in good fun." No, that's not who I am. That's how I'm choosing to behave. And that's where I come back to. I hold your heart, and that's not something I have to do. That's something I get to. In the back of my mind, before we end, can we just acknowledge sometimes the holidays are harder for different reasons. And so there are some... I mean, gosh, we know people who have lost a spouse this year or who have lost a family member. And for those who are dreading the holiday season because it may be more painful than usual, it's my aside still a bit. We see you and... Absolutely. We hear you. Yeah. Yeah. Even though we're not walking. You could feel it, right? You feel it for people. And God's got you, right? Yeah. And I think the prayer is that there will be some... that the memories... Yeah, the memories can... You'll find some joy in the memories even amidst the sadness and the loss. Yeah. And for others, it's going to be a very... It's a very enjoyable day. You know, we don't want... I don't want to lose sight of that either. In every situation, there are things... People who are struggling and people who are enjoying it, you know, it's both and so we do see both. So I have a couple of questions for you. What's one thing you're looking forward to? Thanksgiving is probably my favorite. One of my favorite. Maybe that Christmas. I know why. Oh, I love... Well, it's the combination of two things that I just absolutely love. Well, okay, three things that I absolutely love. I know what you're going to say. Three things that I absolutely love. I love football. I love Thanksgiving food. And I love my family. Was that the third one? Did I get this right? Well, you got them right because you're the one answering. I got them wrong. I would have said football, food for sure. And then I would have said... And it's a one holiday. I don't have to buy any presents. I just get to enjoy my family. So kind of, but no. I don't mind buying, but no, I just... No, I know you don't mind it, but it's one of the cheaper holidays. That is fair. That is fair. But like... But I do laugh at this. This is for all the... Well, for husbands and wives, we heard this a long time ago, and it has stuck with me that for... If you poll most men, they will tell you that... Comfort food. They just love comfort food. And we all love comfort food, but for most men, comfort food is like a Thanksgiving meal. It's like... Or it's meat and potatoes. It's a big, heavy meal. Yeah. Right? And the reason it's comfort food for men is because most men didn't have to prepare it. They didn't cook it. They grew up where the mom or the grandma was in the kitchen all day long cooking it, and all they had to do was just show up at the table and enjoy it. And it was great, tasty, great, filling, fantastic. Whereas for most women... And again, it's not all, but for most women who are polled, they will tell you that their comfort food is chocolate, because they don't have to prepare it. They can unwrap it and eat it, and it's delicious and it's simple. And so... Now, I do... Please tell the two or three people who are listening that I actually do help out a little bit with the cooking on Thanksgiving. I'm not lying. I'm not lying. No, I'm not. You are lying. You're lying right now by saying that you're not lying. I do. I do quite a bit. I help out. You do. You do more now than you ever have, I think, because you're in the kitchen more now, I think, than you ever have, too. You cut the turkey, and you'll make certain things. I do more than that. I make a lot of the sides. No, no, no. What I'm saying is you always cut the turkey. Yeah, you cook. It's not always the same thing. You'll cook certain things. Well, the minute you told me that me in the kitchen barefoot was sexy, I was like, "Hey, good on there." Way sexy. We couldn't figure out the pregnant part, but... I don't want you pregnant. I just want you in the kitchen. How about just appearing pregnant? You nailed that one. What? Did you have to make it sound like it's happened already? You walked into that one. Gosh. You worked hard at that one. Gosh. We're going to name that child Pop-Tart. What a beautiful name. Pop-Tart. What a beautiful name. Yeah. What a beautiful name. And I'll... Nickname will be Blueberry. Okay. Yeah. No, I'm looking forward to... You know, at Sam said she actually wanted to check out... She's like, "I haven't done this in a while. I want to check out and see what the crazy Black Fridays are like." Yeah. It's not going to be a big deal. It's not crazy. It was crazy when we were kids, which I never went as a kid. But... Yeah. That's fun to do. And Sam has... She has us out of all the kids wanting us to decorate earlier and earlier. That has become such a joy for me because she just sparkles when that happens. None of the other kids really asked for that. She does. And Danny loves it now too. So I look forward to that because she just... The little girl really does come out. So I enjoy that with her. There you go. Yeah. All right. What are the questions? You said you have questions. I did, but... Well, you actually talked about... With the couple we were just on with... Or earlier today when we were on with another couple. You talked about... You guys used to... I'm going to bring up what are some of your fond memories about Thanksgiving. A lot of people do traditional things. And one of the things you said is because we lived in Jersey right outside of New York, you went to the Thanksgiving Day Parade. Macy's. Yeah. Is that one of your fond memories of Thanksgiving? Absolutely. Yeah. I feel like Thanksgiving was very predictable year after year. And I liked it. I grew up with a big family, a lot of aunts and uncles. But now do they all go to the parade? Or is it just you and your parents and sisters? It was usually just my mom and my dad and my sister and I, my sister and me. I'll say that right. We would get up early, take the train into New York from New Jersey, and try to get there early so that we could get a curbside seat. Which makes sense. Because as a little kid, if you're behind the crowd, you can't see... You can only see the big stuff. You can't see most of the people going by because you're just blocked by people. So we'd get up early, we'd sit at the curb with blankets in the early morning, cold, because it's November in New York City. The crowds would get massive. I think I always had this fear of getting lost, like getting separated. But we would do that. And then after that, we'd take the train back home and pile into the car once we got home and go to my grandmother's. And my grandmother always, like Thanksgiving was always at her house. It was the central place where all the aunts and uncles and cousins would go. And that was it. That was... And man, so much food. Italian... Like an Italian Thanksgiving. With just so many... The same foods year after year, and that never got old. If they weren't there, you'd wonder, like, what happened? Where are they? So, yeah. I think I've loved Thanksgiving from an early childhood. How about you? Yeah, we used to go up to my aunt Carol's or my grandparents. But I think mostly my aunt Carol's. From my memory, I just remember hers the most. But sometimes my grandparents. And so it would always be like, they used to tell my mom dinner was at two, even if it was at four, because my mom was just always late. And I just remember like pacing the floors away, like, "Gosh, when are we gonna leave?" Because I just wanted to hang out with my cousins. My cousins and I just thought they were the coolest people on the planet. And so going to their house was always fun. And my uncle Tom always played Santa. And so he would... I don't know, you know that I'm saying that. I don't think he came on Thanksgiving. He would show up a little bit as a tease. But that may have been on Christmas now that I think about it. But I always loved hanging out with them. And my grandfather always would sneak us. And I'm sure he did this with all of them. But I swear I was his favorite. He was the cutest man, like five feet tall. Always happy. And when he called you aside, it was like, "I'm his favorite." And he would call you over and he would slip you like back away or little. It would be like a quarter. There's a quarter. And he'd give a little wink and a little smile that he had. And it was just like, "I'm his favorite." And then he would... Sometimes my cousin used to work at a... I think it was a cookie factory or something. And he used to get these packets of the most delicious peanut butter cookies. And they're like five in a pack. Don't even know the brand. They were so good. And he used to slip us our own pack of cookies. As if we were the only ones getting them. For all I know, all my cousins got the same thing. But he pulled me aside. And then it was like as we get older, it'd be like $5 or $1. And it's just so sweet. It just made you feel so special. So I always look forward to that. So that reminds me. I'm gonna tell this story because I know he's not listening. But you know how like... This is one thing about Thanksgiving. Everybody loves the stuffing they grew up with. Whether it was stove top or... No, okay. You're the one weird person. But like it's a homegrown thing. You love the stuffing you've grown up with. And then you go to somebody else's house for Thanksgiving. And it's... You know where I'm going. Yep. And it's just not the same. But you know, they're still decent, I think. Right? Well, so my first Thanksgiving with you, we were dating. We were... Now we're new dating too. Yeah, we weren't even engaged. I think we'd been dating like a month and a half. About a month and a half. And I spent part of my Thanksgiving at your house. I had uncles, yeah. Yeah, your aunt and uncles. And everybody raved about the stuffing. And it was like, oh, you have to try the stuffing. You have to try the stuffing. You have to. And so, you know what? I had to try the stuffing. And man, I'll never forget your uncle. He put the biggest spoonful on my plate because I think he made it. He did. I grew up with a very... A drier stuffing, much drier. And this was kind of like dog food from a can. And... Don't be mean. I don't know. It was... But it just goes to show. Well, texture-wise, it was very much... I can see how you describe it. It was a small wet. Yes. And may have had fantastic flavor. But I'll never forget the first bite. It just sat in my mouth for what felt like an hour. And I'm looking down at my plate and going, I have a lot left. I don't know how I'm going to get through this. And the whole time, right? And everybody's looking at you when you take that first mouth. Don't you love it? Isn't it great? So, I am always... Anytime anybody ever comes to visit us and we put that stuffing, I'm like, listen, stuffing is one of those things like everybody's is different. So, if you don't like it, do not pretend. You don't have to... Everybody here will love it. So, you don't have to eat it if you don't like it. But yeah, that's a memory that I have of our Thanksgiving. Our first Thanksgiving together. Yeah. Well, you know, it's funny. I have never, ever once tried his stuffing because I don't like stuff. I just think, why would you make bread mushy? That just the whole concept grosses me out because it's all about texture. So, you've tried it. I've never tried it. And I love for my uncle, but I've never tried it. Everything else was delicious. I can at least say that. Everything else was great. But man, that was... Well, I remember it now a whole lot of years later. What is your... Is stuffing your favorite meal? I'm curious what your... Hey, put your... For anybody listening, I'd love for you to... I'm curious what people's favorite dish is. Drop your favorite dish for Thanksgiving and who makes it. And a recipe. Mm-hmm. There you go. I don't want the recipe. I do. Send it to Patrick. What is my favorite... I... Gosh, you could make a case for the stuffing. The stuffing is my grandmother's recipe, which you have embraced and recreated. Yeah. Wonderfully. She'd be proud. So it probably is. Yeah, she would be. It's probably... That's up there, I think, with my favorite. But I'm in the whole thing anymore. I just... It's all good. You just love food. I just... Well, I love food, but I just love that combination of food, like turkey and a whole bunch of carbs. And yeah, it's definitely one of my favorite holidays. Would you add anything to a Thanksgiving dish? Because I would totally redo Thanksgiving dishes. I make Thanksgiving for everybody else because I don't eat 99% of the food that I cook for that day. That's all. Because I would do turkey because that's my favorite. Turkey. And if I had to pick, it would be an arugula. I had a really delicious arugula salad that my friend Rhonda just made. I would make a salad like that. It was delicious. And then I would have Anya bring sweet potatoes because hers is actually better than mine, in my opinion. I'd have Mandy make her sourdough bread. And the rest would just have to be chocolate. Because I don't do potatoes. I don't eat stuffing. I don't do gravy. Oh, and the other one I would add that I really came to love this, probably my favorite thing that you're from your side of the family is, Grandma Lyon's apple slaw. Oh, really? It's just a coleslaw with the apples. And nobody has ever made it like her yet. And so I'll never have it again. But when she used to make it and I didn't eat a lot of those other things, it was like the one dish I would eat with the turkey when we went to your family for the holidays that we did before we moved. Loved it. Yeah. It was good. I don't know that I would add anything. I just, you know, maybe, maybe, no, because I feel like at this, to this point, anything I want to add, I just, I have, I just, I just make it, you know, I love making the desserts. I, you know, any side that you want me to make, I'll make, but no. I know everybody loves my mom's cornbread, but that's how we usually hit. That's a recipe we should put in the comments because that's a pretty good one. What's that? I can't share it. Oh, we could sell it. It's a pretty amazing recipe. Yeah. But yeah. So it'll be here before you know it. And at some point I need to go get a turkey. So I should do that this weekend. Well, then we should end this now so that you can go do that because if we get, if we're having a ham on Thanksgiving, I'm going to be, I'm going to be mad. No, we'll do anything except ham. Yeah. Okay. So with that said, happy Thanksgiving everybody. Thanks for listening.