Whorror Icon
Whorror Icon is your queer playground for all things scary, sexy, and stupid. Join drag babe CryBaby and their guests as they celebrate the horror genre and examine it through a queer lens.
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Seed of Chucky
CONGRATULATIONS IT'S A MURDERER! 🎉
This week CryBaby and Donnie talk through campy queer cult classic FEVER DREAM: Seed of Chucky.
From Jennifer Tilly to John Waters, this meta multi-hyphenate Dark-Comedy-Slasher-Satire-Family-Dramaâ„¢ has so much to celebrate and question. Expect chaotic plot breakdowns, deep dives into Don Mancini's queer legacy, and of course giggles galore.
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Intro music by ERK2 (thanks a bunch, dude!) catch his Soundcloud here
Special thanks to Chel B Lockie, Michael Lamarra, Julia Maldonado, Jeff Gorcyca, Raymond Corrado Knutsen, Paige Vice, and Donnie Cianciotto! With out y'all, I would lose my damn mind.
it's, I, I, when I was watching it, I was thinking, oh, it's the ejaculate conception.
Donnie:The Ejaculate conception. Well, that's another hashtag for this episode. That's pretty
CryBaby:Hashtag ejaculate conception baby.
What is your book of Well, hanging out with your Smartest and Funniest Friend. You know me, I'll kill anybody, but.
CryBaby:Hey, cuties, and welcome to Horror Icon, your queer playground for all things scary, sexy, and stupid. You know me, I'm crybaby, the spooky slut from your wettest nightmare, and we have with us today. Hey,
Donnie:Hi everybody. I'm Donnie I am the kind of trans man you'd like to take home to meet your parents.
CryBaby:damn right. Hi, Donnie. Donnie, might I say you're looking wonderful today. I'm living for this hat.
Donnie:thank you so much. Thank you very much. It's my, uh, my cowboy. I. Fantasy, which I don't actually have, uh,'cause I'm from New York, but I do look good in this hat.
CryBaby:Yeah, you do. I have a, I I've seen, I've seen you perform in this hat before, right?
Donnie:I Yes you have. You've seen me do some drag in this hat.
CryBaby:Okay. I thought so. I thought so.'cause it, it looks familiar. I love the horns. Those are horns, right?
Donnie:Those are horns. Yeah. My, my little devil horns.
CryBaby:we're feeling a horny baby. You're
Donnie:Always. I'm a Scorpio.
CryBaby:That's true. Mighty intense. Scorpio rising here, so we connect on that shit.
Donnie:absolutely.
CryBaby:But yes, welcome back, Donnie. Uh, as always, it's a pleasure to have you here.
Donnie:My pleasure. It's a pleasure to be here.
CryBaby:Yes. And of course, welcome to my listeners. Welcome back if you've been listening regularly, and thank you for being here. And if you're just finding us, welcome, welcome to the show. Again, I listen y'all, I'm not good at this whole like, like, and subscribe and hit the notification thing. It's just, I, it just doesn't feel natural to me. I, um, so I'm just.
Donnie:that subscribe button.
CryBaby:I know, I'm just gonna say it right now. Like, subscribe, help us grow, protect queer art, right? Yes. We're, we're making queer art. We are making community. So the more you subscribe, the more you share stuff like that, the easier it is for other people to find us. And also the easier it is for me to make money off of this so I can continue to pay queer artists because we want to pay the community, right?
Donnie:Yes. Yes we do. Absolutely.
CryBaby:1000%.
Donnie:liked, so just give us those likes because we gotta get that dopamine from someone.
CryBaby:I am a validation whore. I love a compliment. I love external validation. Oh my God, Donnie, did I tell you? I finally started getting nice comments on the videos. I.
Donnie:Hey. No, I didn't know that. That's amazing.
CryBaby:Yes. Okay. I mean, it wasn't a lot, it was like a couple, but, these people were very nice. They're just like, oh my God, I love you, da da da da. You're very underrated. And I'm like, thank you. That's such a, that's, I am very underrated. It's such a departure from like, people saying that they're like throwing up in their mouth or like, that they wanted to watch the video, but my voice pissed them off. So
Donnie:oh one,
CryBaby:I did get one of those. But listen, it's fine. as a thicker queer person, and I don't wanna say I'm used to it, as in it's like I'm justifying the behavior and it's fine. It's more so like, I'm used to it in the sense of just like, it doesn't bother me anymore. it carries no weight.
Donnie:Unlike me, which carries a lot of weight as a thicker queer person.
CryBaby:Love it. Oh goodness. Well, yes. Anyway, all that to be said, everybody, thank you for being here. We're happy you're here. And if you're returning, you may remember last week we covered the Queer Cult Classic Bride of Chucky. How was that for you? Yes. Queer Cult Classic. How was that for you, Donnie?
Donnie:It was a surprising journey, but it was wonderful. Very always glad to talk about anything that has Jennifer Tilly in it.
CryBaby:Mm-hmm. And we get to continue that today, baby, because we're talking about speed of Chucky
Donnie:Yes.
CryBaby:ar arguably the most blatantly queer film in the franchise.
Donnie:Oh, without a doubt.
CryBaby:Mm-hmm.
Donnie:We're not playing around there.
CryBaby:Not at all. So, let me go ahead. I'm gonna read for you all another crybaby synopsis. again from the heart. So I hope you enjoy. We're going to Hollywood Baby with this week's movie, seed of Chucky, 50% family drama, 50% slasher satire, 100% Queer Fever Dream. This movie follows the titular seed of Chucky Glen slash Glenda, a sweet, anxious British doll. Uh, searching for their place in the world after seeing Chucky's dead body being used as an animatronic puppet In the new upcoming slash year, Chucky goes Psycho. Glenn breaks out of a freak show goes to Hollywood and resurrects the murderous duo, Chucky and Tiffany. Meta chaos ensues. As Chucky and Tiffany navigate their newfound parenthood, Glen finds themselves in the midst of a gender identity crisis and a murder spree. And Jennifer Tilley attempts to sleep her way into the role of the Virgin Mary, a role that will most certainly give her the Oscar.
Donnie:Well done. Definitely right from the heart.
CryBaby:thank you. I have a lot of fun writing these. I don't know what it is. I feel like I get to get some of my, um, I mean, I wouldn't even say it's frustration, but, you know, I just get to, I get to read like, not like read from the page, but I get to like be a little sassy, you know?
Donnie:Read. Right, right.
CryBaby:E. Exactly. So seed of Chucky. Donnie, How do you feel about seed of Chucky?
Donnie:A seed of Chucky is a carnival nightmare of just meta ridiculousness and queer sexuality. I mean, it's not pulling any punches when it comes to being a very, very gay film, to the point that it even has the phenomenal John Waters in it.
CryBaby:Oh
Donnie:it's just, just with his addition to the cast. The movie got like gayer. I say 29, but maybe more like It's super gay. It's my second favorite in the series.
CryBaby:I absolutely love that because, and hold on, let me turn my lights up real quick.'cause I realize it's pretty low. There we go. Lighting adjustment, everybody. No. It's so funny because, I feel like outside of the queer community, this is everyone's like least favorite Chucky movie,
Donnie:I
CryBaby:but
Donnie:you on that. Yeah.
CryBaby:inside of the queer community, I have yet to find a queer person that doesn't love this movie.
Donnie:I don't think I have either. And I, I'm not saying I don't love it, I just happen to like bride of Chucky a little bit more. But, there's a lot to be said for how self-aware it is and I think that that's hysterical.
CryBaby:I would agree a million times over. oh, and speaking of self-aware, I forgot to mention everybody. If you're watching this video. I'm half baked right now, and for those of you who aren't familiar with the term half baked, I'm like partially in drag, but not like, fully in drag. I'm not wearing a wig. I'm not wearing my tits. I'm just kind of chilling here, having a good time. I felt like it was a props,
Donnie:Oh, it totally is. Plus
CryBaby:like
Donnie:for hair. Are you kidding me?
CryBaby:tell me about it. Oh my God. last week I got a last minute gig with the boy Diva. Do you know the boy Diva? Donnie?
Donnie:I don't think we've ever met.
CryBaby:So, boy Diva is like a wrestling drag queen, and they hit me up last week and they were just like, Hey, do you want to do this gig? Just come in, do a number, do a lip sync battle. And this was my first time doing a lip sync battle first off. So I was terrified. Um, and they were just like. You know, preferably keep it like wrestling related. So I went full eighties trashy, like aerobics, uh, like instructor. It was pretty, I loved it actually. It was so trashy.
Donnie:Perfect.
CryBaby:But the hair was so fricking hot. You have no idea how happy I was to rip that off of my head during my number, y'all. It was.
Donnie:You just need to get that hot wig off your head and this humidity, are you kidding
CryBaby:Mm-hmm. Well, thankfully I did have, it was part of a reveal. Like I was just like,
Donnie:for a reveal. Excellent.
CryBaby:it was strategic. Yeah. So I, you know, I spray painted my hair underneath, so it was like bright green, still fit the theme, but this hair, it was big and teased and pink, and it was swallowing my neck and I was sweating all over the place. So yeah, I could not wait for that reveal. But what wasn't, isn't intentional. My heel, broke 30 seconds into the Lip sync battle. And when I say broke, I don't mean a cute little, uh, no. The entire sole of my boot came off.
Donnie:Wow.
CryBaby:It was wild. So that was when I just, I was just like, you know what? This is my first lip sync battle. I don't care what the outcome is. I'm just gonna go feral. I'm going to, embrace the chaos that has already fallen upon me. And the crowd loved it. And I won.
Donnie:You won. Congratulations.
CryBaby:Yeah, me and the queen I was up against were joking, just like, oh yeah. It was like totally a penny win. I don't think so. I can perform the house down, but.
Donnie:of course you can. Even with one heel.
CryBaby:Yes, with one boot.
Donnie:Mm-hmm.
CryBaby:you talking about how it's too hot for hair made me think about that. So I just had to share that little tidbit of information with everybody. But yeah, so I'm half baked right now. And I'm very comfortable and honestly I kind of like it. There's something that I love about a drag artist, like not fully in drag, like with a backwards cap, but like painted like this. I would just go out like this.
Donnie:You should. You're in Brooklyn. You'll be fine.
CryBaby:That's true. That's very, very true. Oh gosh. Anyway, so many tangents already Donnie.
Donnie:I know, how are we gonna get through this?
CryBaby:Uh,
Donnie:in and of itself is one giant tangent.
CryBaby:that's true. Okay, so we're on brand, we're on theme. We're good to go. Do you have any tangents that you wanna throw into the pot before we jump into my fun little fact toys? I.
Donnie:Um, nothing at the moment that I can think of, but I'm sure as you're talking I will come up with one
CryBaby:Please feel free just to be like, oh, tangent. I'll be like, yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay, so next, um, I think I wanna talk a little bit about some production stuff. You know, spill some tea or bitch the pot as I love to say.
Donnie:bitch, the pot.
CryBaby:bitch, the pot baby, that's my favorite term. Instead of like, spill the tea, it's bitch the pot.
Donnie:I've never not heard bitch the pot, but I'm gonna absolutely start using that.
CryBaby:It's okay. So I saw it on the internet, so it's up for grabs whether or not it's actually true. But, I read this thing about how it was Victorian speak for like pouring tea for like brewing some tea. It was called Bitching the Pot. So I'm just like, girl, bitch, the pot, why not embrace it? So let's bitch the pot together, everybody.
Donnie:let's hashtag bitch the pot.
CryBaby:Yeah. So, So, seed of Chucky, was released in 2004 and it was the last, uh, Chucky movie to be released in theaters.
Donnie:Wow. It was really,
CryBaby:Yeah.'cause Curse and Colt, uh, those ones were straight to video or whatever.
Donnie:Mm-hmm.
CryBaby:which is wild because those ones are great, great, great movies. Yeah, I would've loved to have seen them in the theater. anyway, um, this is also Sweet Daddy Don Mancini's directorial debut.
Donnie:Finally.
CryBaby:Mm-hmm. I know. I think that's of course, obviously that's one of the reasons why it's GGG gay.'cause he not only wrote it, but he directed it.
Donnie:Mm-hmm.
CryBaby:Um, let's see what else we.
Donnie:all up in that.
CryBaby:He does. And aren't we happy?'cause he, he swings big. I love that about him. He swings fucking big and he does that with this movie.
Donnie:Yes, absolutely. And uh, I know we made it further than we usually do Before you mentioned him by name.
CryBaby:It's'cause I got distracted by like my wrestling gig and my broken heel and stuff. Trust. If I didn't go on those tangents, it would've been like the third thing outta my mouth and hopefully the first thing in my mouth. Nope. Oh, sorry.
Donnie:Oh no. Oops. This is a family show.
CryBaby:Oh goodness. That's the second horny comment we've gotten today and we're only what, 10 minutes in? Geez. All right, so we have, Glen Glenda, who is voiced by, uh, Billy Boyd, who is uh, yeah,
Donnie:Rings fame. Love that guy.
CryBaby:exactly. For all my nerds out there. You can enjoy that.
Donnie:For your nerds. Yeah.
CryBaby:Um, he does a great job though. I, I love the, the sweet earnestness that he brings to Glen and Glenda. It works really well.
Donnie:Oh, it's adorable. Yeah. He's got such a cute voice. I mean, he'll, he's like a forever hobbit.
CryBaby:Yeah. Yeah, very much so. And again, it works for, it works for g I'm just gonna call them Gigi from now on. Glen. Glenda, I'm just gonna say Gigi.'cause ultimately that's kind of how they land. So is, if everyone's on board with me, I mean, you can't respond sweet dear listeners, but we're just calling them Gigi from now on. Okay? Yes. fun fact. Did you know that, Chris Sarandon was originally approached to be in this movie, detective Mike Norris from the first one?
Donnie:from the first movie. How would that have fit into this?
CryBaby:don't know. I wanted to ask you, like, how do you think that, how do you think Chris Sarandon would've fit into this? Do you think he would've been like. A meta Hollywood star or do you think it would've been Mike Norris outside of the world of Chucky in Hollywood? Like
Donnie:Well, the idea of him being a meta Hollywood star is appealing because if he were playing reprising his first, the character from the first film, I think it would stick out like a sore thumb. It wouldn't make any sense. Like, why, why is he here? This kind of boring pop in the middle of all these bright colors and exciting, silliness that's happening. Um, but if he had played playing the cop, which I wouldn't put past on Mancini to have written into the script, that would've been pretty cool equal.
CryBaby:Yeah, that's a good point. You're right. Detective Mike Norris is like a wheat thin and a bag of flaming hot Cheetos. It's just,
Donnie:That's exactly, those were the words I was looking for. Exactly. Mm-hmm.
CryBaby:yeah. So, I, I would, he couldn't do it of course,'cause there was scheduling conflicts, but there's a small part of me that's just like, hmm. What if, what could have been, and also speaking of what could have been, and I have mixed feelings about this not happening, but the part that Redman plays the, you know,'cause he's directing, that movie was originally written for Quentin Tarantino.
Donnie:Oh, wow. Yeah,
CryBaby:Yes. That is, obviously Quentin Tarantino like turned it down. But it's one of those things where I'm just like, I don't particularly care for Quentin Tarantino as a human being, however, I do feel like this part would've been, I feel like he would've been really good for this part. The sleazy director. Like,
Donnie:Oh, it fits perfectly.
CryBaby:yeah.
Donnie:Mm-hmm.
CryBaby:So it's just like, do I want to give Quentin Tarantino space in this queer landscape that's being built? No. But do I want the opportunity for there to be like a magnifying glass held up to this man's behavior? Yes. I,
Donnie:Absolutely. I wish there were, you know, a parallel universe we could step into, so we could just see this version of the film that could have been made. You know?
CryBaby:yeah, I'll figure out a way to make that happen. but yeah, that's, that's, that's the, the, the, the pot bitching, I guess is what we'll call it.
Donnie:The pot.
CryBaby:Consider the pot bitched. that's all the fun information that I have for this one. So, We can get, just jump right on into, just talking about the movie. Obviously everybody, it goes without saying spoiler alert, and I'm just gonna throw this out here right now. Every movie that we talk about on this podcast that is not a new release is there's going to be spoilers. I don't feel, yeah. Not to be a bitch, but I don't think I have to say like, Hey, spoiler alerts for this movie that came out 21 years ago. Um,
Donnie:years ago, my God,
CryBaby:Oh God,
Donnie:old.
CryBaby:Yes. It's, no, I think we all are getting old.
Donnie:I guess, I guess it does happen simultaneously,
CryBaby:Um, yes. We're all in tandem here, yeah. So needless to say, spoiler warning, right off the jump, We open up this film with semen Just come,
Donnie:Uhhuh, which I ha reminded me of the movie. Look, who's talking with, uh,
CryBaby:Chris.
Donnie:and Alley. Mm-hmm.
CryBaby:Oh, that aged like milk.
Donnie:Ooh.
CryBaby:That cast did kind of age like milk. Unfortunately that sucks'cause I did like that movie. But you're right. The look who's talking.
Donnie:The whole opening sequence is like, not shot for shot, but it's certainly very familiar, very reminiscent of Luc who's talking.
CryBaby:Very, it's, I, I, when I was watching it, I was thinking, oh, it's the ejaculate conception.
Donnie:The Ejaculate conception. Well, that's another hashtag for this episode. That's pretty
CryBaby:Hashtag ejaculate conception baby. Um, yeah, no, we get, some CG sperms. this is clearly, how Gigi is coming to be. It's fun, you know, it's, I think this opening sequence alone lets you know everything that you need to know about what this movie's gonna be.
Donnie:what you're about to get yourself into. Yes, definitely.
CryBaby:Yes, yes, yes, yes. And of course, and then from there, there's that whole scene with the, like the Halloween homage with like that nuclear family.
Donnie:Right, right. with Gigi waking up and presented to a little girl, and the girl's like totally disappointed with this ugly doll that she gets.
CryBaby:Yes.
Donnie:watch from Gigi's perspective as they go about the house and they kill the mom and dad.
CryBaby:Mm-hmm.
Donnie:I feel like I still need to say spoiler alert, even though we just said we're not going to say that.
CryBaby:You all already got a spoiler alert.
Donnie:yeah, I don't have to say it anymore. Um, it, it is very Halloween.
CryBaby:Also, I'm pretty sure this is the only movie that has nudity in the Chucky franchise, if I'm not mistaken.'cause the mama falls out of the shower and it's, titty city.
Donnie:You might be right. I, I feel like I just saw, I feel like I saw boobs in bride of Chucky, but I might've, it might've just been wishful thinking. I.
CryBaby:They were in the corset. I think it's just, it, it's hard to, it's hard to have Jennifer till on screen and not think boobs.
Donnie:Yeah. Yeah. It's entirely possible that I was just getting ahead of myself.
CryBaby:Maybe, but yeah, this is, we get two sets of titties. We get this one and then we get some doll titties later with, Tiffany, which is super funny. But yeah, this whole sequence is so unserious, especially with how it ends
and now you are pissing your, you are pissing your pants. You are pants.
Donnie:Poor sensitive, sweet Gigi.
CryBaby:I know these nightmares, like I would, I would hate to have nightmares like that just to be, just red and shadow on by a, a little British girl, God.
Donnie:The murdering part is totally cool. It's
CryBaby:Oh, that's fine.
Donnie:part with the British kid that's not so good.
CryBaby:Okay. Exactly. we meet Gigi, who is very clearly going through an existential crisis. Like right off the bat, we're introduced to this sweet but confused, Character, this new addition to the Chucky landscape. How do you feel about Gigi at this point?
Donnie:fascinated, curious to see what happens next. Little concerned about the Made in China sticker or, or whatever it
CryBaby:the maid in Japan one. Yeah.
Donnie:in Japan. That's it, you know, I'm a little worried about the Made in Japan brand, but, uh, we'll see where that goes.
CryBaby:Yeah. I am, I'm glad you mentioned that because I, I think the last time we talked about this movie, we brought this up. Just this, um, oh, yikes. Uh, problematic. Yeah. Which, uh, it's another, it's kind of like the heart and dalala, because that made in Japan stamp is how Gigi, uh, recognizes that Chucky is. Their father because after this whole, well, first off, Gigi's in like a ventriloquist, thing in the uk it appears, right? Is that it?
Donnie:Somewhere over there because they have a sequence where they run away from the
CryBaby:Oh,
Donnie:ventriloquist guy and they get on an A plane and they do like the plane is flying across the ocean and it's styled like the Indiana Jones movies where you see like the little dotted line behind the plane as it travels to Hollywood, California. So Gigi can seek out their parents..
CryBaby:You know what's funny about that is our references, like how completely opposite end of the spectrum is.'cause when I see that plane, I think of America's Next Top model, when the top five or six finalists get to go to the international destination and it shows this shitty little plane with like pictures of them in the windows, like flying to Thailand.
Donnie:Oh, I had no idea. I had no idea. I'm just like, yeah, 1986, this movie. You don't remember?
CryBaby:I mean, I'll remember Indiana Jones. I just, I live for America's Next Top model. That shit's so messy. Tyra's a menace. Oh my gosh.
Donnie:I watched the first couple of seasons, but then I was like, okay, once you've seen one, you've kind of seen'em all
CryBaby:I don't know. They're, I think they're worth it. They're so much fun. I'm looking yellow.
Donnie:yellow.
CryBaby:Do I look yellow?
Donnie:You don't look yellow. To me,
CryBaby:Okay. Maybe just'cause my chest is pink, whatever. Um, that could very well be it, so back to the Japan stamp, this birth mark that, that Gigi has, the reason GG sees Chucky on TV is because of the whole meta clusterfuck that's being built for us in Hollywood right now with this Chucky ghost psycho movie that's being made with the real dolls from the actual murders from Hackensack, New Jersey.
Donnie:right. traveled from Hackensack to Hollywood as so many of us would like to do.
CryBaby:again, like all the, the number one thing that I think of with this movie is how unserious it is because I think about, the fact that there's a news crew on set while they're filming this movie. And the fact that we have those real dolls from these murder scenes like that are unsolved. And then we have, of course Jennifer Tilly back on our screen, which I feel like that's the number one reason we went metal with this movie is so that we can get physically, Jennifer Tilly back on screen for this movie.
Donnie:Yeah, that's, uh, probably exactly it because having her there as Tiffany, as, as is wonderful. But being able to physically see Jennifer Tilley and then to have Jennifer Tilley playing this heightened version of herself, which is already pretty high, just a absolutely brilliant, a brilliant decision by Don Mancini to do this because it immediately shows us that we are in this world where like anything can happen could be seeing Hollywood or we could be seeing something real. We don't know. In fact, the beginning sequence of this, um. Hollywood movie where we first see Chucky, we're not necessarily sure that it's a movie we watch, Chucky and Tiffany kill a man dressed as Santa Claus in a big, snowy cemetery. When I think Santa, I think cemetery and, the doll begins to malfunction and someone yell, cut, and they have to go fix this doll. So already we can't really trust what it is that we've seen. Are we watching reality? Are we watching this movie Get me?
CryBaby:Mm-hmm. going back to that, that heightened version of Jennifer Tilley, and I think one of the things that I love so much about this movie is I can see such a close and comfortable relationship between Jennifer Tilley and Don Mancini on this screen. I can tell that they are really good friends, really good collaborators, and that they're both down to clown, because Jennifer Tilley takes the piss out of herself. She's really mean about herself in this role, and it's so fucking good.
Donnie:mm-hmm. you, you know, you don't wanna do that if you're not in an environment where you feel safe. you know, they, they make several jokes about her weight, several jokes about her voice. I mean, she is just leaning into mocking herself the way that the press actually did. You know, when star was rising, everybody was like, who's this lady with the voice? You know? uh, she's just like, it's me. I'm the lady with the voice.
CryBaby:And I love that she's owning it. some of my favorite moments in this she's like, I'm a fucking Oscar nominee for Christ's sakes. What does it take to get someone to take me seriously? And then the Chucky doll turns and goes, nice tits. And she's like, thank you. And it's just so stupid and so funny. And that was in, uh, the conversation. Oh, her assistant. Joan. Do you think Joan, is in love with Jennifer Tilley?
Donnie:Um, you know, it could certainly be read that way.
CryBaby:I think so.
Donnie:yeah, there could, there could certainly be,'cause there does seem to be a lot of judgment. And Joan comes off as like a very judgmental Christian woman, which we all know is certainly, the first step toward homosexuality. So it's entirely possible.
CryBaby:Well, the way I read Joan, I think it's clear that Joan holds Jennifer Tilly in a high regard, and she has high expectations of her. And to me that reads as like Joan has put Jennifer Tilly on a pedestal because she is in love with her and she is trying to sculpt Jennifer Tilly into the version of Jennifer Tilly that she thinks that she loves. Does that make sense?
Donnie:Ooh, I like that. Yeah, this is good.
CryBaby:Yeah, that's, that's how I read Joan. And the reason I read Joan that way is because I have been that person. I've been that person that has been like dotting for somebody and I have been hypercritical of them because I saw them a certain way, and when they were not behaving in that way that I. Wanted for them because I saw them as such a good person. I immediately kind of like went into Criti criticizing. So, um, I will say a part of that is because I do see a little bit of my younger doting crybaby in Joan and how she responds to Jennifer Tilley, especially because she ends up, she's the one that writes Jennifer Tilley all of her fan mail.
Donnie:She is writing Jennifer Tilley's fan mail. Yeah.
CryBaby:And I think she does that because Jennifer Tilley's bitching about how no one takes her seriously. One of the things she says is, I don't even get fan mail. And then that later down the movie, we see Joan writing fan mail for Jennifer Tilley. To me that means that she's in love with her. She listens to everything that she says she loves her.
Donnie:She think she can fix her.
CryBaby:Mm-hmm. I can fix her. Uh, But it's a really fun meta establishment. So we talked about the Indiana Jones plane or the America's Next Top model plane. Gigi ends up in just knowing where to find these animatronic puppets on set whips out the heart of Alala, the once before used heart of Alala.
Donnie:That's right. The thing that we didn't know existed until the last movie
CryBaby:Yes. And, brings Chucky and Tiffany back to life. Woo-hoo.
Donnie:our fantastic chant.
CryBaby:And this one is such, I I, so the, the chant, like, as we all know, it, is like, gimme the power. I beg of you This one, all Gigi says is, aala awake. That's it. Like we are, we are entering like the new millennium. Here we are entering the screen time attention span. We don't have time for all of that. None of that.
Donnie:places to be. Mm-hmm.
CryBaby:We're Spark notes saying this. All right. It's, it's so short.
Donnie:way this movie is disjointed with how short some of the scenes are, it definitely feels that way. It feels like we were having our shorter attention spans played to
CryBaby:It really does.'cause even like, and I'm, I'm sure you're having the same, experience that I'm having right now. Like as we're talking through this, I'm like, wait, what order happens? What happened?
Donnie:Yes,
CryBaby:Listen, y'all watch this movie and you'll understand what we're talking about. Like, it's, it's one of those things where the breadcrumbs are, it's like you grabbed a fistful of'em and just like threw them with reckless abandon instead of strategically placing them in a row. That's how it feels. but yeah, Chucky and Tiffany do come back to life and they immediately kill, uh, Tony Gardner. Uh, he's, he's the actual Oh God. Is he the head of special effects on the Chucky series or is he the head puppeteer? He's, he's done a lot for the effects, uh, for, for this film. And he is a producer on this Well, oh, he was a producer on this series?
Donnie:Oh, he pass away.
CryBaby:No, the series got canceled.
Donnie:Oh, Jesus.
CryBaby:Sorry.
Donnie:death. Death cancellation. I mean, what's worse?
CryBaby:It's, I I did kind of sound like that. I'm sorry. before the show got canceled, he was a producer on it, but yeah, they behead him and immediately start making out as they're being showered with blood. It's so hot. I.
Donnie:Yeah. I mean that's, what else are you gonna do?
CryBaby:And then we get to see them react to parenthood, which I think is a very interesting thing to witness with these two.'Cause in the previous movie we were talking a lot about how like queer coded they were and how they operated so differently, as this exciting wild couple. And now here they are finding out that their parents
Donnie:And it's interesting because they both make a different assumption about Gigi, where Chucky is convinced that this is a boy and Tiffany is convinced that this is a girl. And they're both, neither of them is making a joke outta it. It's not funny. They just see this, their spawn completely different.
CryBaby:Yeah. They're just arguing back and forth and that narrative carries throughout the whole film where. Tiffany is wanting Gigi to be a girl and Chucky is wanting Gigi to be a boy. Like that never really gets resolved until the very end of this movie. So it is planting that seed. That was an accident.
Donnie:what you did there.
CryBaby:That was, that was a total accident. But they are planting that seed for, you know, this conversation around, parenting a, a child that is non-binary essentially, and it's really interesting and Gigi doesn't really seem to have much of opinion on it either there.
Donnie:No, not at all.
CryBaby:Mm-hmm. I don't think Gigi really thought about it actually, now that I think about it.
Donnie:Yeah, I don't think it was something that was on Gigi's radar. Gigi seems okay with it, of course, you know. Tiffany wanting Gigi to be Glenda and Chucky, wanting Gigi to be Glen, changes the way that they parent Gigi, you know, Tiffany being a little bit more coddling and Chucky being a little more like, come on champ. You know, that kind of thing. And it's, it's an interesting, dichotomy to witness these two dolls doing because it's so you know, it's so cisgender and, we're, you know, it's, it's comical in a sense to see these two murderous dolls to that kind of, mindset,
CryBaby:Yeah, it is. It's, it's really interesting. It's really funny and I think it's a reminder that like at the end of the day, like this is a family drama above anything else like this. This is a family drama. And then secondary, it's a comedy and then tertiary, it's a horror movie, which is why I think a lot of people were disappointed when it came out'cause they were expecting a horror movie when we got a family dramedy.
Donnie:Right, right.
CryBaby:Mm-hmm.
Donnie:it, it has deaths in it, but it's not a slasher flick
CryBaby:No, not at all. Mm. I wouldn't say, I wouldn't say at all. what's, interesting about it, and we had a little taste of it in Bride of Chucky, but the huge focus is the family dynamic and these relationships between these dolls and their relationships with killing. Because you know, Gigi is just like, why do you kill people? I don't like it. I don't want to be a killer. And so Tiffany being the coddling person that she is, is like, we have an addiction. And she starts treating it like an addiction goes through the whole 12 step program. Well, she doesn't do the whole thing, she just does a couple of the steps. Um, and then
Donnie:that she read? It's like, how to do 12 Steps and seven Steps or something like that. I think
CryBaby:something like that. It's, it's wild. But, um, Jennifer Tilley finds the dead body of Tony Gardner when she's trying to sneak a Snickers and, Tiffany is in love. Tiffany is in love with Jennifer Tilley, which I think is another meta funny, hilarious thing.
Donnie:Oh, it's brilliant. I, if I had a little mini me doll, I would want it to be madly in love with me.
CryBaby:Mm-hmm. So this is when, they decide, you know what, Tiffany's gonna be Jennifer Tilly, she's gonna get her body, and then Chucky's gonna get Red Man's Body, and then they're gonna figure out a way to make a baby so they can get Gigi into a human body as well. And they just, they plan this while they're in the back of a limo with like some of the cheesiest background effects. And like, you know, as they're driving through the car.
Donnie:Like what's clearly like a green screen in the back.
CryBaby:Yeah. Part of me wonders is this stylistic or is it, um, I feel like it's, it's, it's a, a, a choice from Don Mancini. It all feels so superficial, which I think is in itself, uh, kind of a critique on Hollywood. Yeah.
Donnie:Oh, yeah. I think he is making it clear without really saying that it's a critique on Hollywood. I mean, the other, there are other aspects of this where Hollywood is being skewered where say, you know, Jennifer Tilley's trying to leave the studio, and, and reporters are shouting questions at her. And I, I think one of them says, Jennifer Tilley, what's your birth date? Give us the exact day. Or How old are you? Really? Give us the exact birth date.
CryBaby:Mm-hmm.
Donnie:because Hollywood is obsessed with superficial things like that. So I think that he's skewering it as much as he can, here and there. And part of that is probably the awful background that he chose to have
CryBaby:Mm-hmm.
Donnie:it, you know, the limos driving through Hollywood.
CryBaby:that paparazzi scene has some of the best background dialogue. It's so funny, like there's, that one stood out to me. There's the one that's like Jennifer Tilly, tell us about this rumor, about your, like your chocolate addiction or something like that. And then John Waters, this is when we get to see John Waters and he is relentless, very Perez Hilton coded I feel,
Donnie:Oh yeah, that's, that's accurate.
CryBaby:which I mean, fuck Perez Hilton. Like genuinely. But um, he says something like, what happened? And Jennifer Tilley's just like, I don't wanna talk about it. He's like, draw us a picture. Oh, what's wrong? You're not an artist. Like, it's so fucking funny and so bitchy. I live for it. Oh, Jennifer Tilly, by the way, has decided that she's gonna sleep with a red man to get the role of the Virgin Mary, which is in itself hilarious. And there's that whole predatory thing that Redman is doing where he's just staring at her tits the whole time she's reading with him.
Donnie:right. And she, she invites Redman back to her place so that she can try and seduce him in order to win the role. is all for it.
CryBaby:exactly. Of course. He is all for it. He's a man. Um, he is a man. But she's going back to the house and she's planning all this, and Tiffany's just like, oh my God. She's a complete slut
Donnie:That's right. With the voice of an angel
CryBaby:with the voice of an angel., and you know what's great about this? I do care a lot more about the human story of this than I do about Bri up Chucky because of Jennifer Tilley.
Donnie:Mm-hmm. Yes.
CryBaby:Yeah.
Donnie:how could you,
CryBaby:How could you not? Yeah, I just, I again, I just, I love that she's taking the piss out of herself, that she is like horing herself out, quote unquote, for this role, and it's just, ugh, it's so brilliant.
Donnie:Yeah. It's, it's awfully clever and for some reason, I'm trying to think of another actress that could have pulled it off with the same. it seems effortless and I just, I don't know that anybody else comes to mind.
CryBaby:The only person that comes to my mind, and I think it's just because she is just naturally a comedian, like I don't think she has to do anything is Parker Posey.
Donnie:Parker Posey. I was gonna say Jennifer Coolidge.
CryBaby:That's, yeah. So Chucky and Tiffany, what they decide not to kill Chucky. Relentlessly, but relentlessly. Reluctantly.
Donnie:reluctantly.
CryBaby:But he does that thing where he is like, oh, I won't kill, and he crosses his fingers behind his back.
Donnie:Do
CryBaby:And then what? I was just thinking about that. That feels like such a like nineties, early two thousands thing.
Donnie:it feels very dated.
CryBaby:It feels very dated. Sound off in the comments. Does anybody still like. Yeah, just let me know. Like, do people still cross their fingers behind their back, like unironically? Yeah. So, um, oh, There's the seduction scene and then Chucky jerking off into a cup.
Donnie:Yes.
CryBaby:'cause they're gonna impregnate Jennifer Tilly.'cause Tiffany doesn't wanna get pregnant again.
Donnie:Who can blame her.
CryBaby:Uh, honestly, I don't, I don't. um, this is where we get the doll titties. Tiffany pulls down her little doll dress and it's just like, full on nips baby.
Donnie:Yeah. Yeah. Straight up doll titties. I wonder if there hadn't already been nudity in the movie. What the movie would've been rated based on the doll boobs.
CryBaby:Well, I think this was originally rated NC 17.
Donnie:Oh, wow.
CryBaby:Yeah, I th I, uh, I think I remember reading something about that. I'm pretty sure it was rated NC 17 and, they, I don't know what they changed. Clearly. It wasn't the titties. It wasn't the, the nudity.
Donnie:No, they let that still happen. I
CryBaby:Yeah.
Donnie:You know, things used to be weird, like if you used. Blood. That was too red. Too too red looking. It was, would get you a higher rating than if you use less realistic looking blood. I don't know. I, I think the blood in this, I think they're all pretty realistic, but who knows what that the rating committee or whomever it is, makes those decisions. Who knows what they're thinking.
CryBaby:Well, and like, let's be honest, there's just some people who will automatically view queer content as more obscene point blank period.
Donnie:Oh, for sure. I think it's a pretty accurate assessment.
CryBaby:Yeah, but either way, they had to cut out some things and they didn't cut out the boobies. But what I do find funny is Chucky, when he's jerking off, he jerks off to a Fangoria magazine.
Donnie:Yes. He goes through the magazines in the bathroom and picks Pango. Mm-hmm.
CryBaby:And all while this is happening, what we have, Jennifer Tilley is like seducing Red Man. And then Tiffany ends up knocking them out to inseminate her and John Waters. is doing his paparazzi thing, taking all kinds of photos and stuff, and Chucky clocks it.
Donnie:Jackie does clock it.
CryBaby:Mm-hmm.
Donnie:and then, see this is where I'm getting confused because everything jumps around so much,
CryBaby:Mm-hmm.
Donnie:I know that, Chucky wakes Gigi up and says, we're gonna go on a father son trip or something like that. And, they go to Pete Peterson's. Home, where his dark room is and he is developing the pictures that he just took at, Jennifer Tilley's house. And, Chucky's plan is to kill him and Gigi tries to step in and prevent it at the last minute.'cause Gigi's still anti-violence. And, it ends up that, Pete Peterson ends up falling down and getting covered in, what is it? Some kind of solution,
CryBaby:it's like some sort of chemical that like melts the fuck out of it.
Donnie:melts his skin. Yeah.
CryBaby:Mm,
Donnie:assumes that this was done on purpose and it's like, I can't remember what he says at a boy or something along
CryBaby:yeah. You're a natural. Yeah.
Donnie:His, his heart swells with pride.
CryBaby:Yeah, it's really interesting seeing, Chucky fall into this father dynamic. obviously it's parallel to the father who wants their son to be into sports and the pressure that comes along with that, and I find that a very interesting dynamic in this movie is like chucky's expectations versus what Gigi wants.'cause even though there is a point in the movie where Gigi says that they think they want to be a boy, I still don't fully believe that 100%. And I feel like part of that is because of the pressure from Chucky.
Donnie:Yeah, I agree. Um, especially with what you said about Chucky being the same as a father who's like, I played high school football, you've gotta play high school football. You know, that, that kind of thing. Only in this situation and happens to be murder and, you know, definitely wants to push Gigi to be a. Oh gosh, the, what's the phrase? A chin, not a, wanna say a chin off the old goat. That's not it.
CryBaby:Oh, a chip off the old block.
Donnie:a chin off the old goat. What the hell is
CryBaby:But let's talk about, let's talk it with a chain off the old goat,
Donnie:Chin? Like a chin.
CryBaby:a chin off the old goat. Never heard that before. Totally using it.
Donnie:I, I don't think anybody's ever put those words together in that order before A chip off the old block. Not a chin off the old goat. I don't know. Something's wrong with me. I gotta get checked out.
CryBaby:Where did that come from?
Donnie:Couldn't tell you the words. Kinda sounded the same, but, let's blame long COVID.
CryBaby:Okay. Either way, I, I'm kind of obsessed. I might just use that instead. I, it's more fun. Chucky wants Gigi to be a chin off the old goat.
Donnie:A chin off the old goat. Yep. I'm glad everybody just got to witness that. You're welcome.
CryBaby:We made history, everybody. All right. We're, we're new slang here. We're bitch in the pot. Chin off the old goat. We need one more by the end of the episode,
Donnie:old goat. That's right. Mm-hmm.
CryBaby:Goodness. but yes, to your point. Yeah. He wants, Gigi to be a, a chin off the old goat.
Donnie:I'll never live this down. It's going on the internet for posterity just in
CryBaby:Yes, it is. I do love that. There's an irony and like a satire and obviously because it is so meta, I do love that that kind of family dynamic is explored in this movie, but like murder is taking the place of everything, right? Like it's not parent quitting alcohol or quitting this, that and the other for their kid. It's a parent quitting murder. It's not that, you know, I want my son to follow my footsteps and play football. It's that note murder. I just love that that is how it manifested itself in this movie. I think it's really fun and really clever and also relatable. Like obviously I don't, I don't think my father ever wanted me to be a murderer, but I can certainly relate, especially as a non-binary person and like as somebody who knew at an early age that I was not. Hyper masculine at all. I can definitely relate to that feeling that Gigi has in that scene where Chucky is so proud of them and they're just like, this is not what I want at all. Super relatable, I think.
Donnie:and you know, the fact that it was written by a gay man is, you know, very noticeable.
CryBaby:Absolutely. And then along with this, Tiffany has a slip up because, well, hold on. No. oh yeah, this is, while this is happening, this is when Tiffany, impregnates, Jennifer Tilley with a Turkey baster.
Donnie:Well, she kills Red Man first,
CryBaby:No, she doesn't kill Red Man until the next day. Because see, it's, uh, it's all over the place.'cause it's like, yeah, she, Jennifer Tilley gets impregnated with a Turkey baster, and then the next day she wakes up pregnant. And so voodoo pregnancy. So it's like she's already like nine months. And then Jennifer Tilly tells red men, red men's like, no, I got a vasectomy. And then that's when Tiffany kills her.
Donnie:It's all very confusing.
CryBaby:It really is. But some notable points, just, I love a lot of the dialogue in this movie. One of my favorite lines is when Chucky and Tiffany are watching the news the next morning after they impregnate Jennifer Tilley, they're watching a news story with Martha Stewart getting arrested and, Tiffany's like, they're executing Martha Stewart this morning are they actually executing her like in this world or is this just like Tiffany being a dumb ass?
Donnie:Nope. They, uh, they're, they actually execute her, I think earlier, much earlier when they're in the limousine. I feel like I remember hearing something about that on the radio, but I could be totally
CryBaby:it's so funny.
Donnie:to, to gather and, and absorb in this movie,
CryBaby:Mm-hmm.
Donnie:that even though I watched it like 16 times in preparation for this, I'm still having trouble the order of things.
CryBaby:Yes.
Donnie:Which is exactly what you want when you're watching a, or listening to a podcast about a movie. You want somebody who's not sure what they're talking about
CryBaby:Well, this is why we decided that we're not gonna stick too strictly to the order of events here. We're talking overall themes, so if you all want an exact rundown of the movie, just watch the movie. Come on. It's a lot of fun. It's, it really is a lot of fun. It's all over the place. It we maybe that, maybe the way that we're talking about it may come across as like, oh, we hate that it's all over the place. It's like, no, we're just trying to be able to communicate it effectively, and that's the hard part,
Donnie:Just watch it. Yeah, just watch it and then listen to us or do it the other way.
CryBaby:Mm-hmm.
Donnie:think we did, you did mention, uh, Tiffany Knocking Redman and Jennifer Tilly out, and I. I can't remember'cause I think she, we see it twice, but the, the thing that she uses to knock Jennifer Tilly out is an award that says most improved. Like, I, you know, I don't know if it's supposed to be for, for film or what. Obviously it's an acting award, but I believe it says most improved. And I think that's just her another shot for the sake of the movie at herself. And it just cracks me up.
CryBaby:Yep. Oh God, that I didn't clock that. That's so funny. that that's in the same scene where Tiffany's like, God, she's fat. She hasn't even been, she's not even pregnant yet. funny.
Donnie:talk about bound to, which, if you haven't seen the movie Bound, it's a slight departure from, from this series. But like, Gina Gershon, Jennifer Tilly,
CryBaby:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Donnie:bound.
CryBaby:Do it. Yeah, they reference it a lot. I think Don Mancini does that thing that I do as a gay best friend with all of my girlfriends, I. Is like, there's just some things that I'll latch on that I'll just relentlessly joke about or bring up or read them over or something like that. And I feel like Don does that with Bound. He will not let Jen. Well, first off, he loved it before he even cast, Jennifer Tilley and Brian of Chucky, that movie's one of the reasons why he wanted her in this. But, the fact that he will fit, that he will fit bound into the script any way he can. And we see that a lot in the series too, which is fucking hilarious.
Donnie:Oh, in the series, he brings half the cast back for an episode. It's,
CryBaby:Oh, that's,
Donnie:my favorite episode in the entire series.
CryBaby:I would agree on the murder mystery party sh of it all. Oh, so good. Listen, everybody, tangents. we're not gonna be covering the TV series on this season. Maybe in the future I would love to, but it would be a lot to cover. So do yourself a favor if you haven't already watch the TV series. It is so delightfully unhinged. Oh
Donnie:Mm-hmm. It falls along the same lines of this, the way this movie is me, very different than, than Pulse. You know, it, it, it comes back to this kind of meta self-awareness thing again.
CryBaby:But with a little bit more refinement and direction, I think. And I think that's why it does so well. but yeah. Oh yeah, they do. They bring it up.'cause when. When she wakes up pregnant and they go to like tie her to the bed so she can give birth. They're on the phone with Joan and it's just that, that whole funny back and forth again. Another dig at Jennifer Tilly's voice where Tiffany's on the line, Joan's on the line and Jennifer Tilly is on the line. And while Jennifer Tilley's screaming in the background, Joan's like, oh, I hear you screaming. And Tiffany's like, oh no, bound is on cable. Gina au is fingering me.
Donnie:Yes. Oh, it's so good.
CryBaby:Oh, that is definitely a line written by a gay man. I'm not gonna lie that 100%. but yeah, so to, I'm trying to think are there any other important details? So Tiffany kills Red Man. She relapses, there's that really funny scene where she's on the phone with the. Person who's just like, Rome wasn't built in a day, we all mess up. And so she takes that as permission to kill red men. That's a funny scene too.
Donnie:And the scene where she is trying to make amends with her 12 step program, so she calls the wife of a victim that she's killed and is apologizing for this horrific murder,
CryBaby:Mm-hmm.
Donnie:obviously traumatizing the woman on the other line. And, uh, you know, she feels so much better for having gotten lit off of her chest,
CryBaby:Mm-hmm.
Donnie:another ridiculous, ridiculous scene.
CryBaby:Yeah. And I think it like going back to our conversation last week on camp and that quality of just honesty and like I. Groundedness and earnestness to it. I think that those two scenes highlight that really well in this movie.'Cause some of it is like so over the top and absurd and, um, I feel like intentionally so, like the Britney Spears moment, But I think about this conversation that she's having on the phone with this, advisor for the 12 for addiction, basically. And she just is so rooted in like a genuine, like, no, I don't wanna do this. I'm so, I can't, I can't go to a meeting. And like, it's, and I think that that groundedness in those moments like really kicks it up a notch for me.
Donnie:Yeah,
CryBaby:Um,
Donnie:it seriously.
CryBaby:so yeah, she kills Red Man. Jennifer Tilley. They have her tied to the bed. They, oh, you know what we forgot to talk about, which is fine. The fucking driver, Stan.
Donnie:Oh, that guy,
CryBaby:He is just there to be a meat bagg. Yeah. They get him there.
Donnie:he is there for 90 seconds. You know the, the limo driver that is in love with Jennifer Tilley.
CryBaby:Yeah. So after they kill Red Man, basically we just needed a body to come in and so that Chucky could try to take it over, but it doesn't matter'cause plots was spoiler alert, they end up not going into the bodies. But first with Gigi, we finally have a revelation So like when Joan comes in, because obviously she was scared or she of the phone call when Joan gets killed, who kills Joan?
Donnie:Do we see it in that moment?
CryBaby:We see it is like a fake out. we see a blonde hair and a wedding dress, and we're led to think that it's Tiffany again, but it turns out to be Glenda.
Donnie:Glenda,
CryBaby:Mm-hmm.
Donnie:things I, I feel complicated emotions surrounding this whole thing.
CryBaby:Mm-hmm.
Donnie:which isn't to say that I don't still very much enjoy it, yeah, we get this, this surprise. I am a murderous woman.
CryBaby:Yeah. Very. what's that movie? What's the movie from the eighties with, was it Dustin Hoffman or one of those people? Dangerous Killer? No, there's, there's a, there's a movie in the eighties that.
Donnie:Gate.
CryBaby:Let me, hold on. Lemme pull it up real quick dress to Kill. That's what it is.
Donnie:Oh, to kill that would've, I was gonna get there.
CryBaby:I knew there was a D in there somewhere. But yeah, it's very dressed to kill and I'm with you here. It kind of, for me it falls in a similar camp of dress to kill and like sleepaway camp
Donnie:Sleep away. Camp is another one.
CryBaby:and Psycho where we have this vilification of a trans person and having this trans identity or like this, non-binary, ident, whatever the case may be, we're having that used as a plot device for why somebody is dangerous. It leads to, perceptions of dishonesty when it comes to, gender expression.
Donnie:Mm,
CryBaby:I feel very similarly to you. Like I love that Gigi is non-binary and that there's kind of like two parts to them, but I don't like the implications that come with that.
Donnie:Yeah. This movie, in my opinion, swings and misses, uh, a little bit with this, as you said, there's a vilification of trans people or genderqueer people, or non-binary people that Hollywood has been doing forever. You know, I already, we already mentioned so many movies, and then there's like Ace Ventura, a pet Detective, and Naked Gun, 33 and a third, you know, where there's usually a beautiful woman. That the main character is romantically, sexually interested in, and then they find out that it's a, a trans person or a trans woman. And I think in Ace Ventura, he's like, vomiting. You know, like it's just, those movies obviously don't necessarily, they're not horror movies. But it
CryBaby:It's the same sentiment though. Yeah.
Donnie:yeah. You know, this, it's this disgusting. And there's another horror movie called Cherry Falls
CryBaby:Oh,
Donnie:same thing.
CryBaby:wait a second.
Donnie:Falls?
CryBaby:I remember Cherry Falls. I, uh, Brittany Murphy. Oh my gosh, I miss her so much. Every single day. I Ms. Brittany Murphy. I remember that movie. I don't remember the trans storyline. It's been probably like 15, 20 years since I've watched Cherry Falls.
Donnie:probably. You see it once. That's kind of enough. I
CryBaby:Yeah.
Donnie:movie.
CryBaby:Yeah.
Donnie:You know, so there is just this ongoing thing of like, oh look, the, the boy is actually a girl, or, you know, this person is actually transgender and usually puts on a dress and that's when the murder happens, you know? So it's like, ooh, we're kind of beaten a dead horse with this awful stereotype. But because this movie is so self-aware and tongue in cheek and written by a queer person, it like kind of slides a little bit under the radar of being super duper transphobic and is actually just like a little transphobic instead.
CryBaby:Yeah. And I, part of me thinks because it's a horror movie, that just feels like the way to go with Gigi. I don't think it was used in the same way that we saw it in other horror movies like Cyclone Sleepaway Camp, where this identity is the reason why. I think it's just more so, Dawn, exploring that duality within Gigi, and obviously being related to Chucky, that genetic, transfer of, maliciousness and the need to kill. And then of course, we do see throughout the movie, Gigi's having these little ticks, like these eye twitches and stuff. So I think it's just unfortunate that it played the way that it did, you know? Good.
Donnie:right? Because there's definitely the predisposition to be a murderer, and there's also the genetic trait of being non-binary. just the way that those two things get married in this movie where it's like, oh, okay, but I, it's something I wouldn't like to see replayed now
CryBaby:Mm-hmm.
Donnie:I think the intention behind it was not evil, you know, it wasn't to, to vilify trans people. plus I, I just have a little soft spot in my heart for Gigi. So it's just one of those things where when I watch it now, I'm like, oh, I don't know that that aged particularly well, but. It's, it like a small complaint in order to get the rest of this fantastic movie out.
CryBaby:I agree. I think this movie. at least for me, like it impacted me was this idea of sometimes I want to be a boy, sometimes I want to be a girl. Why can't I be both? I think this was, it was very bold of this mainstream horror franchise to introduce a character who was gender non-conforming and non-binary. Like not, not strictly trans, not strictly cisgender, but this this more fluid relationship to gender that I don't think was, I, I don't remember it being, anywhere in mainstream culture at that time. Like I,
Donnie:I'm struggling to remember that. I don't think there, there really was, nothing comes to mind
CryBaby:yeah, like the, I know for me, like the first time I ever, I really started hearing conversations around, you know, more gender fluidity and non-binary, identities was probably like around like 2014 is when I think it really started becoming a bigger conversation and this came out 10 years prior to that. So even though we do have that unfortunate turnout with, with, Glenda being the murderous side of Gigi, I do want to give some good points for having the, the guts to firmly plant a non-binary character in a mainstream horror movie in one of the meanest decades of pop culture.
Donnie:Yes. I, and I think if I'd been a young person who got to hear the words, you know, why can't I be both? would've been like, wow, you know, that, that would've resonated with me. so you're, you know, you're right that it was, it, it took bravery to put this into a film like that, and it probably did do some people really good just to see themselves represented, even if it happened to be this murderous character.
CryBaby:I would agree. I think it,
Donnie:I.
CryBaby:an access point. You know, when I saw this, I didn't fully know what it meant to be non-binary. I didn't know what my relationship to my gender was. And it was just kind of, yeah, it was a nice thing to hear and just be like, oh, okay, that's, I didn't know that was an option,
Donnie:that's the thing. Yeah. That's an option.
CryBaby:so I do like that. And then they end up doing that thing where they split Gigi into two.'cause Jennifer Tilley ends up having twins, so they're like, we're gonna put Glen in this one and Glenda in this one, I.
Donnie:Voodoo, you know, you can do whatever you want.
CryBaby:That voodoo that you do. another thing that I like, and I do feel like this is also very queer coded, is when,'cause everyone's freaking out'cause the police are coming or whatever, and Tiffany really wants to be Jennifer Tilly and Chucky's just like, fuck it. If this is what it takes to be human, I'm done. I actually like being a killer doll. And he starts to embrace his body. And I feel like that that is also a very kind of like queer storyline for Chucky.
Donnie:You are right. It totally is. I mean, it's not one that you would, think I wanna write something queer. I'm gonna write about a doll who eventually becomes okay with being a doll, but it is very queer coated. Yeah.
CryBaby:Mm-hmm.
Donnie:finally being content in your own skin or rubber, whatever he's made out of.
CryBaby:Exactly. Rubber. He is all rubber. We learned that last time.
Donnie:That's right.
CryBaby:And then, so just to walk everybody through the end of the movie, Chucky decides, Hey, I don't wanna do it. Ends up getting killed by Gigi gets like chopped to bits and pieces. Tiffany does manage to enter Jennifer Tilley's body and move, Glen and Glenda into their respective twin bodies. And that's, that's seed of Chucky, right? Did I miss anything?
Donnie:pretty much it. I mean, at the end we see a birthday party for the two, twins for Glen and Glenda. And, turns out that the, the Glenda, no, it's Glen is the really sweet twin and Glenda is the really scary one. And, we get a birthday present for Glen that turns out to be, is it Chucky's arm?
CryBaby:Yeah.
Donnie:It's a piece of the mutilated Chucky.
CryBaby:Mm-hmm.
Donnie:how it ends. So it ends with us, you know, that the three of them got put into human bodies and someone mailed Chucky's arm to Glen and then he pisses his pants and
CryBaby:Oh yeah. Yes.
Donnie:where we started.
CryBaby:And then with that, that was like, that's the last we see this moving theaters. Like I said before, this movie really wasn't received well, not at the time.
Donnie:No, I think it was pro. it was too smart for a lot of people who just didn't understand the, in your face of it all, the self-awareness of it all.
CryBaby:Mm-hmm.
Donnie:you know, it was confusing and so many people that started with this franchise wanted, I think, Chucky to remain this. Violent, scary, murderous doll in these straight up horror movies. And the campier it got, I think they did lose people. I think not everybody understands camp and not everybody deserves to.
CryBaby:I, I second that. I think, yes, I think this film was too smart. I think it was accidentally kind of ahead of its time. It was like unintentionally, like 10 years ahead of itself. I even, I wrote down a quote from Roger Ebert. He gave it, I think two out of four stars. And he said, seat of Chucky is two movies, one wretched and the other funny. Which I think is kind of what it sums it up, you know, a people's expectations of like, if you can sit back and embrace the fact that this is a funny family drama kind of movie, movie, you'll enjoy it. If you're trying to hold onto that old notion of Chucky, you're gonna hate it for sure.
Donnie:wonder what it was to him. That was so, that was wretched. Wretched.
CryBaby:Probably the editing, I mean, it's the same thing that we're having issues with. You know, it's just like this, difficult to follow threading that they're doing.
Donnie:Mm-hmm.
CryBaby:maybe, I don't know. I, unfortunately we can't ask him anymore.
Donnie:no,
CryBaby:And,
Donnie:Mm-hmm. But
CryBaby:uh.
Donnie:uh, you know, was such a, such a gay movie. To have come out in 2004 when there was nothing else comparable to having a non-binary murderous doll character. And now I feel like if the movie had come out now, we'd be like, oh, I've seen this before. I'm already familiar with, these terms and, and with what's going on. 2004, it's weird'cause it doesn't feel that long ago, but like pop culture wise it was, and the movie just came out a little bit before we were ready for it. And I don't mean you and me, we were ready for it.
CryBaby:Oh, ready?
Donnie:we, you know, it's a shame it didn't do better. But it is a cult classic because folks like us and folks who know who John Waters is, we were like, this is fricking brilliant.
CryBaby:Yes, absolutely. I think this, with Bride of Chucky, we were already getting that queer embrace, And I think that this is just a, another step forward. Like when I think about queer horror icons in general, Glen and Glenda are one of the first ones that come to my mind because, because it's fresh. A new dynamic character this far into a franchise I think is also something that's super special.'cause a lot of times by, by the, what, this is the fifth movie in the franchise at this point, you're just getting into human meat bag territory and just replaying the same mulch stick. So you don't really get that opportunity and horror to get introduced to new dynamic complex characters the way that we did with this. there's a huge reason why it's a cult classic and I think, people who think this is the worst in the franchise should reevaluate their decision.
Donnie:I think so too. Go back, watch it again with fresh eyes,
CryBaby:Mm-hmm.
Donnie:know, and also you're wrong. So,
CryBaby:Yeah. Well, and that makes me wanna ask you,'cause you know, we asked, I asked with Bride of Chucky, and I'm just, I'm curious to know your thoughts on the rewatch value for seed of Chucky.
Donnie:I still think it's worth a watch once a year. I would say the rewatch value is a little less for me personally than for bride of Chucky. I think every time you watch it. You're going to see a new nuance that you missed the first time and you'll gain a new respect for how it was written or how it was directed. because there's just so much depth to what comes off as this goofy harm.
CryBaby:Yeah, I'm in the same boat. For me, it can sometimes be a bit tedious getting through and I might just be feeling that way because I watched it two times this morning while I was getting ready. And so, but you know, I think this is, when I think about rewatch experiences, right? There's things where I will rewatch it to genuinely rewatch it. There's things that I will rewatch to passively rewatch because it's like comforting to me. And then there's things that I will rewatch with another person because it's a fun experience. And seed of Chuck is the kind of movie that I would want to rewatch with another person. Just to see them relate and see them connect to it. I think this is a great social watch,
Donnie:This would definitely be something that I would wanna show somebody who has not seen it yet.
CryBaby:Absolutely. Well, I would probably do a double feature of bride of Chucky seed of Chucky.
Donnie:Yeah, that makes sense. You need to, you need to at least have a little idea of what you're getting into.
CryBaby:yeah, just a little bit. Is there anything else we wanna say about Jennifer Tilley while we're here? I mean, we can go on and on about Jennifer Tilley.
Donnie:time do we have? Yeah. something I wish I'd looked up before we did this is, our, her thoughts on, on the movie and how she feels about it, because. Again, it does make so much fun of her. She's making fun of herself. And I wonder how she still feels about it, you know, like, I'm sure she thinks it's hilarious.
CryBaby:Let me see.
Donnie:Are you looking
CryBaby:Yeah, it's more so about her.
Donnie:of Chucky? Yeah. What? Her relationship to this particular film?
CryBaby:All it's giving me is like her relationship with, just being in the Chuckie series at all. Nothing specifically about, uh, Cedar Chuckie. But what I can say is I do know when they were writing this, Jennifer Tilly said, go hard. Like she, she wanted them to really go for it. Like she was, I think she probably had a lot of fun with it. She went so hard to where the studio said, you need to dial this back because you're really making Jennifer Tilly an unlikable bitch.
Donnie:Oh, wow.
CryBaby:So.
Donnie:to hear said about you.
CryBaby:I know, so. I, from what I know, obviously I can't speak for Jennifer Tilly, but I do genuinely think that she loved the experience of just like taking the piss out of herself.'cause she's such a comedian. She is also, she strikes me as one of those people that doesn't really take anything too seriously. that's, that's what I think she would say. The internet didn't tell me that exactly, but
Donnie:no, I, I just think that she is, was such a smart addition to the series and proves her worth, you know, just. And, and the idea sounds like so much fun for, you know,'cause I'm an actor and this would be like one of these really exciting things to do as an actor, but to play yourself and then have to go into a studio and record your other character, you know, so when the scenes are, are Tiffany and Jennifer Tilley talking together? You know, have fun to be acting off of yourself, you
CryBaby:Oh my gosh, that has to be so fun. and also that just adds more queer layers to it.'cause we were already talking about how Jennifer Tilley as an entity outside of the Chuckie franchise is a queer icon. Like we have fully accepted and embraced her. So not only having, Jennifer Tilley the actress in the movie, but having Jennifer Tilley being a character in the movie. And what's more, having Jennifer Tilley being such a heightened, exaggerated caricature of what she could be. It's just, it's gay candy. It's queer snackage. Like
Donnie:Queer Snackage. Yes, that's what
CryBaby:queer snackage.
Donnie:snackage.
CryBaby:Hashtag
Donnie:We got three of them.
CryBaby:Yes, we did it. yeah. I feel like we could just go on, we could spend hours just talking about Jennifer Tilley. I fucking adore that woman. My God. I will say I do think, it is very clear that this is Don Mancini's first time directing a movie. and that's fine. We all have a first, and I, I've said this before and I'll say it again and I'll continue to say it in perpetuity until I die. I would much rather somebody make a movie like Don Manini and like swing Big and go for the fences and try something new than retrying the same old stale. non-complex formulas that people fall into, especially if it's like, if it's a film that was never really written to be a franchise, like I don't think, I mean, I'm sure Don would've loved for it to have been a franchise, but I don't think it was written to be a franchise well, I think a lot of franchises tend to be just single movies that were happen to be successful. So to have a movie that was never really written to be a franchise, still managed to keep things fresh is way more exciting than just replaying the success of the first movie over and over and over again.
Donnie:Yeah, I absolutely agree with you. I mean, nothing particularly formulaic about the way that this, these movies are making their journey. So instead of being like, okay, we're gonna watch the guy in the mask kill off the teenagers, not that that doesn't get done well sometimes, but other times, yeah. You're like, okay, I know exactly what we're gonna see.
CryBaby:Mm-hmm.
Donnie:a lot of curves at you where you're like, okay, I didn't expect that.
CryBaby:Exactly. And you know, not to keep going into this, y'all, but that, that mode of operation carries through to the series in really big ways, really fun and exciting ways.
Donnie:Watch the series, do it.
CryBaby:Please, please do. Please, please, please do. yes. All right. I did another little poll thing on Instagram to get a little audience input. Yes. So, I, I mean, I just asked the, the big question about this movie is, does it get too much hate or does it not get enough hate, basically, and 100% of the people that responded said that it gets too much hate. So
Donnie:Mm-hmm.
CryBaby:the horror icon, yes, the horror icon audience is composed of good people with good tastes. So thank you for being here with us
Donnie:Yes. Thank you.
CryBaby:most. Excellent. Well, do you have any final things that you want to say about this movie, Donnie?
Donnie:the only other thing that I would wanna mention that I don't think we touched upon, is just how vibrant and bright this whole movie seems to me to be. Like the color palette,
CryBaby:mm-hmm.
Donnie:think we talked about in the last movie, is just delicious to look at.
CryBaby:Yeah, it is. Whereas Bride of Chucky was very like gothic and romantic I think this movie, it's bright and saturated in another way, it's color palette is very much like a bag of Skittles or a bag of gummy bears where it's very bright and artificial. And I think that that's a wonderful visual language to use to carry this movie that's all about just. Nonsense.
Donnie:Nonsense. Yes. Utter nonsense.
CryBaby:Mm-hmm.
Donnie:perfect.
CryBaby:Any favorite set pieces?
Donnie:Oh, I'm thinking of Jennifer Tilley's entire house.
CryBaby:Oh God,
Donnie:live there. Yeah,
CryBaby:that house is insane. I think they've shot that part in Romania.
Donnie:Really.
CryBaby:Yeah. A good part of the movie was in Romania. Yeah. I do like Jennifer Tilley's house. I think that would, that would probably be my favorite set piece too.'Cause really not much else. There's,
Donnie:Yeah, there's not much else going on. A lot of it takes place in, in the house. I mean, the, her dining room and the bedroom and things like that. I'm thinking specifically the dining room, living room areas right now. yeah. Very, very funny.
CryBaby:Yes. What about, do you have a favorite kill in this movie?
Donnie:feel like the kills are almost somewhat inconsequential to the rest of this movie.
CryBaby:Absolutely.
Donnie:if they're just so we haven't even talked about them really, you know?
CryBaby:Okay, so let's go through'em real quick. If we wanna talk about everything we see. There's the parents at the top of the film, right from Gigi's So the, the father gets stabbed, falls over a banister, the mother slips and hits her head in the shower.
Donnie:Right. we do have the guy who gets his head, who gets beheaded in the Hollywood studio.
CryBaby:yes, Tony Gardner gets beheaded with some piano wire or whatever, some cable. Oh, Brittany Spears. Brittany Spears in this movie.
Donnie:Britney Spears dies in a car crash. Yeah.
CryBaby:And then is Pete Peterson. I know that was, apparently they really wanted Britney Spears to play herself in that, and she declined
Donnie:and she declined. It's, it's a moment in the movie that almost stretches it too far for me, almost. But
CryBaby:that. Yeah.
Donnie:journey that we're on, so I'm willing to watch it.
CryBaby:My thought is that is a moment in the movie that was made specifically for the trailer.
Donnie:Yes, yes. That makes sense.
CryBaby:Yes. okay. So yeah, Britney Spears dies and then the paparazzi dies. Pete Peterson, uh, with the, we talked about that, the melted chemicals and then Redmond dies. Oh, and I love that Jennifer Tilley calls'em Redmond.
Donnie:Redmond.
CryBaby:Yeah. Mr. Redmond, he gets gutted and eviscerated by Tiffany and then. A couple of randos. Yeah. Joan gets killed by, uh, Glenda gets lit on fire and falls over a banister into the foyer. There's some people that Chucky killed off screen, tuck into a closet, then Stan dies. He, he gets a knife thrown into'em trying to protect somebody. Yeah, they are pretty inconsequential for the most part. I think the only one that carries any weight is Joan. but even then, I think maybe that's another reason why some people didn't really like this movie is because the kills they are secondary and they're played for a way more comedic effect and
Donnie:And some of them don't, you know, you're, you wanna see a whole scene. I mean, the whole Pete Peterson, paparazzi death actually is its own little movie, you know?
CryBaby:mm-hmm.
Donnie:we've become accustomed to seeing these death scenes kind of like, you know, not necessarily in a final destination kind of way, but where there's a beginning, a middle, and the end. And
CryBaby:Yeah.
Donnie:them, like Stan dying because he jumped in front of Jennifer Tilly as they threw a knife, or in front of Tiffany. I can't remember who he was trying to say. it just, it's over like that, you know, there's no, I don't wanna say there's no thought behind it, but it's not the elongated death scene that we're, you know, looking forward to with anticipation.
CryBaby:Yeah. There's no defined set pieces for any of these apart from the paparazzi, and I think that's one of the things that makes a really good and impactful death scene in a horror movie is having a well established, easily identifiable, impactful step piece the action to take place and for there to be, like you said, a very clear, and fun. Set of actions that leads to someone's demise. So I guess I'm gonna have to say like Pete Peterson's my favorite. I mean, it's John Waters is John Waters like, ugh. What a treat to have. John Waters is such a Chucky super fan too. I'm so happy for him that he got to be in this movie.
Donnie:again, just having him there is, you know, he's a gay, iconic, we are icons, so it elevates the gayness of this film.
CryBaby:Oh, absolutely. you can tell that he's just loving being there and he's having a great time being this filthy paparazzi. And, it was just such a treat. I remember that that death is the one that really stuck with me when I first saw this when I was younger, was the melting half of his face.
Donnie:Yeah, it's creepy.
CryBaby:Yeah, that's that I think that seed of Chucky everybody. Yeah. I mean very, very queer, both, gender queer, sexuality, like all of it very, very much. And like I said, this is the last time we see Chucky in theaters. After this we go to Curse of Chucky, which came out I think almost 10 years later. I don't know the exact date. It was a big jump. It was similar to how there was there was a jump from child's play, three to bridal Chucky, and then there was a jump from Seed of Chucky to Curse of Chucky. Like Chucky says he'll be back. He always comes back.
Donnie:That's right.
CryBaby:Donnie, where can our listeners find you?
Donnie:Oh, you can find me on the internet. this thing called Instagram where you can look me up by my full name. If you're reading this, that'll help. If you're just listening, it's the word, the, Donnie, D-O-N-N-I-E. And then my last name, which is C-I-A-N-C-I-O-T-T-O. I'm probably the only person with that last name on all of Instagram, so it should be relatively easy to find me.
CryBaby:Yes, and I will put it on the screen. Everybody. I will like write it down so that way you can spell it.
Donnie:If my name was Smith, this would be so much easier.
CryBaby:it's okay. CIA has a nice rim to it, I think.
Donnie:It sure does.
CryBaby:You can find me on the Instagram as well. Crying in public and you can find horror icon. On also Instagram, that's horror icon, spelled W-H-O-R-R-O-R, icon Pod And please feel free to email us at horror icon@gmail.com. I love hearing from y'all, suggestions, comments, thoughts, new sign for us compliments, yes, nice things. Shoot us an email and keep an eye on social media.'cause I'm throwing stuff up there for, interactivity purposes and I'm just, I'm just trying shit out. Help me. We're making a show here, baby. Let's do it. So, that's all I have to say. Once again, thank you so much for spending some time with us, cutie patootie, and we're gonna catch you next time with Cursive Chucky. Until then, don't be scared unless you're into that sort of thing. Bye.
