Mia Thornton from Real Housewives of Potomac

This week, we’re diving into one of the most controversial figures on Real Housewives of Potomac: Mia Thornton. She’s been dragged by Essence magazine and the BravoBros pod, but we’re here to serve up an unpopular opinion—#JusticeForMia. Love her or hate her, Mia is undeniably bringing drama and life to RHOP. We’ll unpack her journey, from her turbulent upbringing in the foster care system and childhood trauma to her headline-making divorce from Gordon and her intriguing new partnership with Inc. But that’s not all—we’re dissecting her inconsistencies, her larger-than-life histrionics, and the Jessica Rabbit persona that keeps everyone talking.

Is Mia a messy icon or just plain messy? Tune in to hear all about this enigmatic Bravo star and decide for yourself!

Chapters

• 4:44 Intro to Mia
• 13:34 Mia's background
• 25:44 Mia and Gordon
• 32:17 Mia and Jacqueline
• 37:57 Producing Mia
• 49:13 Gordon and Inc
• 54:31 Conversation with children about divorce
• 1:01:06 Final Questions
• 1:07:19 Paternity Test
• 1:14:02 Karen Hugar

Transcript

Hey, everyone. Welcome. Hi. we're back on our right schedule. It's 2025, and, you know, everything's going great except like my entire city is on fire, but otherwise great. Yeah, I mean, that's really scary. I think it's really scary times. But I also want to give a shout out to one of our followers who DMS us all the time, Jenny Brew. She was sharing some great resources and I know she's also in L.A., so sending her some love. And we always try to be a port in the storm for the chaos of the world where we can just escape and talk about Bravo. Right. Right now is a time to dissociate a little in the healthy way that we need to dissociate, to cope with the fact that, like both L.A. is burning and potentially the world is going to metaphorically burn. So today, speaking of trash fires, dumpster fires, relevance. How relevant? What a good pivot. Today we are doing proteomics myth or n. This was not a request. This was something that I actually was just interested in because her relationship with Jacqueline is really interesting. And then obviously we're getting a lot of stuff with Gordon, but and Inc who I just want to point out his full name is Incognito. Every time they say that, I'm like, That must be a joke. I wonder if that's his legal name. No, because I just rewatched when we first heard about him and they say his real name and bleep it. And then he says the only thing he wants is don't mess up his brand like you better call him Ink. But I wish she had said ink, which stands for Incognito. But she's actually been in the news this week a lot because New Year's she posted this dramatic like her and Gordon post and then announced on TMZ that her and Incognito are broken up and around the same time Essence magazine did this like hot piece, I guess, about how Mia Thornton's ruining the show in some way, which then I saw a Bravo bro like picked up and they went hard in on Mia. Which getting into this episode, I just want to say like Potomac Housewife Show, I feel like I dip in and out of because sometimes it just feels like the women are out for blood. And there's been times where I felt like Mia was bringing the show down, But I felt like this season I've enjoyed watching Mia. I am going to do an opposite take as the essence in the Bravo Rose and say that she is bringing something to the table. That's really interesting. Whether you agree with it or not or like her or not, is a different story. But I am interested in watching her this season. I agree with you 100% and I think she does bring a level of trashed, quote unquote, trashing, as I guess, to Potomac. That to me, at least from like when she first came in, felt like needed like these woman were so stuffy and all seem to have like. Ashley was the only one who kind of didn't seem to have like a stick up her ass. And then we brought in this, like, vivacious, like, sexual woman who put her sexuality out there and put like, her, you know, kind of all of these, like, weird things that were going on in her life and her history. And, like, I just felt like she brought a level of, like, I'm going to put everything out there which like sometimes can be, I think, off putting. I think as an audience we like want it, but then we're like also like very often hurt by it. Yeah. I just feel like she came in and like started to remove sex from people's assets a little bit. And, you know, I didn't read the Essence article about, like, why she's bringing the show down. I think the show has always kind of had like some trashy ness to it, like going back to, like, Katie and her Kind of like I'm thinking about like her wigs and how messy she was and like, you know, she was kind of like, unhinged. And then we had Monique, who physically attacked Candace. You know, like, there's always been some element of, Like this wasn't these these women were never, like, as rich or as high class as even like the Atlanta women, if we're comparing it to another cast of color. But, you know, in general, to like what we're seeing in a lot of the other housewives, I think they kind of set the bar that you don't need to be that rich. And sure, they're all like wealthy and well-off. But like if I'm sure, if we comparatively looked at their like, you know, net worth, they're not going to be close to a, you know, Beverly Hills So I think Mia is getting blamed for a lot this season, but I actually don't think she's the one bringing the show down. I actually like this season, so I don't think this show has been on the verge of crumbling for a long time for various different reasons that I don't think are one cast members issue. Yeah, and I think also Bravo kind of expects a level of wealth from housewives. And I was talking to someone recently about Potomac Housewives and they were like, wait, there's a Potomac Housewives like Potomac is not that that I had never heard of Potomac. I did not know what that was. I did not where that was. I'm still like have to look at a map to like oriented. And I'm from the East Coast, so I know and it's like and I feel like all the women don't even necessarily live in Potomac, it seems like. And that's like a big thing. That's like I can't relate to because I don't know that area where they're like, Well, she lives here. And I'm like, Well, is that close? Is that or is that are there? What are the boundaries here? Yeah, area and I feel like they're all kind of some some of them are in condos and some of them are it never feels like that level of, you know, wealth that you see from Beverly Hills Housewives and they all kind of have these sort of janky house. So I'm thinking of just such like a big storyline of like who has who does it, who lives in Potomac proper versus who doesn't. Because if you don't, then you must not be as wealthy or valued or like it does become this sort of secondary storyline to every season of like who is where, where and who has what, when I think Potomac almost suffers from that, though. I mean, because Beverly Hills is such a distinct place and you feel that and Orange County is such a distinct place and you feel that even I think in some way York is Miami. Yeah, they really do have distinctive Salt Lake. Like they have a distinct New Jersey, like, you know, those women and where they are before they even tell us. Yeah. And so it almost feels like Potomac and maybe a little bit more this season because they know they have that friend of who her husband's on the chiefs like it always got the sense of randomly rich women whose husbands were businessmen or you know, so a woman who was married to a retired like athlete NFL someone like that. I do think me a story is interesting just on the surface and saying okay it wasn't really. Sold to us this way. But if it was, I would be more interested, which is like a stripper who met a very wealthy man, thought she was getting, the life she always dreamed of. And, you know, she owns all these, like, franchises of the joint, whatever, and then it's all kind of ripped out from under her, which we're releasing this season, the last season. I think that's really interesting. I just think we've gotten her story so much in different pieces, like even her being a stripper came out right, like in a weird way that she never was really sold that like a a woman who was kind of, you know, taken from the strip club to the boardroom, which I, I think is fascinating to me. Well, I think that's MIA, because I think there is a part of her that wants to, put her trauma out there and get the sympathy from that, but then also really like desires to be seen in a certain way. She wants to be seen and like maybe respected is the word. Like there's something about her that, like, wants her story to be respected. And so in that there becomes like all these, like, inconsistencies of like, well, what is true about your story? Because the truth is like, you're like, not necessarily like this boss woman CEO, but you're also not like a Cinderella. Like, like, what is it? Like, maybe you're both and maybe that is true, but it's confusing the way you're selling it to us. So like, maybe let's go back and talk about your background. So she came on the show as Karen's friend. They met through some business acquaintance. At the time she was an owner or CEO. Her role was I think this is part of where we start to get like into the confusion of her. She's like an owner or a CEO or some sort of like. Okay. I could be wrong. So please, Dimas, if I am wrong, I believe the joint is like a company where you can buy franchises like McDonalds or, you know, Chipotle and there's a lot of businesses that they franchise. So you as an owner? Yeah. Dunkin Donuts like. So me, if I decide I want to have a Dunkin Donuts franchise, I can go to Dunkin Donuts, apply, get my franchise. Okay, I have my one business. It's successful, same area or close to area. Do another one, do another. So I always get the sense that they are under the joint like umbrella and then they just have their franchises. But as a corporate entity, it's interesting that the joint has never had an issue with them kind of portraying like they own that whole business. But yeah, it's very confusing and I know I don't understand it well. I imagine from the joints perspective they're like, well, this is, this is like advertisement for us. So she comes on, she's like franchise owner, whatever that is. And yes, please educate us on this. We are not business people at all, clearly. And so like, that's where I feel like she kind of starts with, I am a CEO, I'm a boss. Like I am this type of woman. And then slowly in that first season, we start to get more of her story. We hear how she met Gordon at a strip club. Then we also hear a lot about her history, where her parents were both drug addicts. She was in foster care. Though I read some things that seemed confusing about her placement in foster care, it seems like she was placed in what is called kinship foster care, which is when you're raised by a family member. So with her grandmother, non kinship is when you're placed with just someone who has applied to be a foster care parent and takes in children. Well, it's definitely confusing because even in the few episodes I watched she's like, I was adopted at nine and lived in Miami. But then when we meet Jackie, she says, I met Jackie at 15 and her family fostered me. So it's confusing. Well, I think prior to that, she was I don't think she was in foster care with Jackie's family. What what I understand what happened when I was doing some research. Was she maybe I think she must have been adopted by her grandmother, who wasn't a great care giver her or that's her story of it and that she ended up kind of like living with Jackie's family because grandma wasn't being an adoptive caregiver. I don't think that was an official like foster care placement. But technically, if you are in the care of a family member, that usually does go through the foster system. So technically, yes, she still is in foster care for anyone who may have confusion about that, because I was reading some like red states where they're like, well, she wasn't in foster care if she was being raised by her grandparents. And that's not true. If your parents give up their parental rights, you know, access and different agencies have to step in and make sure children are being taken care of appropriately. Once you are adopted, then you are no longer in the foster system just for clarity for people. And if anyone has more information about it, we're, you know, happy to hear about that. So, you know, clearly she's raised by these two. You know, she has these two parents who aren't able to provide her with like adequate care. As a young child. It sounds like her grandmother wasn't like a sensitive caregiver either. So the first thing that comes up for me, like therapeutically is this is someone with like either like a disorganized or an unstable attachment. And that is going to affect sort of like how she sees herself and how she sees relationships and is going to impact the way she behaves. And it makes a lot of her behavior not it doesn't make an excuse for it, but it helps it makes sense for me, especially a lot of like the lying and the inconsistency and the showboating and a lot of like the seductress over sexual quality. Like a lot of it to me plays out as someone who feels so invalid in the world and is constantly like seeking attention and validation in whatever way she can get it and we can get more into that later. What I thought I really appreciated about Mia when she first showed up is like she shares all this. She also brings in her mom, who they have some really open and honest conversations about mom being an addict and what that was like for me. mom does a little bit of like blaming dad, saying he introduced me to drugs and like that conversation was very interesting I also want to know her father died in prison, so he was incarcerated and then passed. Away in prison, it sounded like when she was a teenager. So, yeah, he's. He's not currently in her life. Yeah. And she tells one story where one night she I guess she must have been in the camp. She must have been young because I imagine. What did she say? She went to foster care when she was nine. She said she was adopted when she was nine. But again, in the show, she doesn't stay by her grandmother. Okay. We'll say she must have been under nine when this happened. She talks about a story where she tried to cook oatmeal on her own. She was under the care of her father and she spilled it all over her and got burns all over her body from, like, hot, scalding water. And it was because her father was with another woman doing drugs at the time. This is the story that Mia tells when she's kind of having this dinner with her mom, she or this lunch with her mom. She talks about getting burned all over her body. So I think a lot of people that to me it was something interesting because a lot of people make comments about her like skin and her, you know, the way she looks. And I wonder how much of that might be related to like having had these burns as a young child And she comes into the show really hot talking about all her plastic surgery, which also could that could be playing to that. Yeah, I think the access with her mom her first season was really revealing. I think also there was a lot of talk about siblings and how her mom was more focused on her siblings and not her. And she was kind of always craving that attention and pulling and pulling for that attention. So I want to say in general, I'm jumping ahead and we'll get into this more. But the more recent episode where she's in Panama and her kids are missing and she's trying to figure out she with a family friend of Gordon and the other women are looking at her like she has ten heads. All I can think about is these early seasons where I'm like, it seemed very normal for her to have multiple parents, multiple people in her life shuffled around and yeah. And chaos. And so I can see a world where whatever is going on right now with Gordon and their kids and these family members or friends who are taking care of the kids, as scary and strange as that is to us, the viewers, or even the women on the show. It's probably more stable to her than what she ever had. So totally. And whenever people are judging how she is parenting and like the choices and things that she's making in context of that, like her parenting to her children is probably like 100 times like safer and more well attached than anything she ever experienced. And if you're someone who comes from a place of like, never having a model of how to like a tune or attach or engage with your children, like you're having to make that shit up for yourself. I think there was one interview by this season where she talks about Father's Day. It was about the whole Gordon Inc and the Post and whatever. But she talks about I had all these different fathers, I had all these different people in my life. So I just say, Happy Father's Day. And it's kind of the only real interview by I've seen this season which hearkens back to her past. And I kind of wish on a producing level it would help me and the audience to get some more stuff from her interview being like, talk about your childhood and what's going on now in this in this situation with Gordon and are there patterns being repeated or what are the fears of patterns being repeated Or do you feel like it may look like chaotic to these women, but like what you know, what stability are you providing for your children that you never had? And, you know, because even her getting with Gordon in the first place, you know, picking a person who has mental illness is probably comfortable for her because this is what she's been surrounded by her whole life. Really? Oh, yeah. So, I mean, and we don't know, sort of like Gordon's history with his mental illness that, you know, apparently he was only diagnosed pretty recently, but likely oftentimes like bipolar shows up in early adulthood, sometimes later, depends on a lot of factors. But my guess is, yeah, he had a lot of highs and lows throughout their relationship and that was something familiar and comforting in that for me to. So yeah, I think there is there's some missed opportunities here to kind of and I see this in that you know the essence piece just to give a quick summary don't need to read it, but it's a lot about just, you know, judging her relationship and judging her relationship with her children, judging how she's handling a lot of these things. And again, I think if in the producing there was a harkening back to this original story that was flashbacks with her mom, maybe even a scene with her mom. I think we would. Understand better, and it would be good to have more empathy for her and understand that like the choices she's making are not made because she is like this. I think people are seeing it and they're like, Oh, she's selfish, she's stupid. She like doesn't care about her children and she's choosing a man over her children, which is like, there is some truth to that and there is something that Mia needs to like. Take a minute. Take a beat and like, think about, like, what is important to me. But she's a kid whose parents chose drugs over her. Right? Like her father was with another woman doing drugs while she's getting burned by oatmeal. Like, to her, she's like, I'm. I'm choosing my happiness, but I know my kids are safe, too. and even with that scene in Panama, with her kids, like getting lost than like she finds them, she now knows they are in a safe place with safe people, getting safe meals, getting what they need. And so now she can think about herself. Now she's like, Well, I don't need to go home to them because they're safe. And so I can go visit again, like have my good time. And that to her, I imagine to her is like, that's still better than what I went through because my parents never considered whether I was safe or who I was with or if I was bad. And at least I think about those things and I think you're absolutely right that like it is, the women are being very judgmental. And I'm surprised not any of them are making any of these links or making space for this. And I think it's hard. I think it's I want to back up because I feel like it's hard because Mia can be so hot and cold with the other women that I think it makes it hard for them to have empathy for for her. I totally agree. And I think that's my issue with Potomac and past seasons is like are these genuine friendships because in other casts we see at least Mia has one genuine friend that she can go to and like talk to in the cast. And right now that role is being served by Jacqueline and I want to get into their whole triangulation, but Jacqueline is sort of serving that role. But instead of being that, you know, they've had a couple of good side conversations about what's going on with Gordon. I actually think Jackie did a good job in that one scene of of telling her you need some better boundaries and you need to get better guardrails on this whole situation in a very respectful way. But otherwise, she's kind of playing this weird mouthpiece in these group scenes. I think also my issue in general with the lack of cohesive friendships is a lot of this information, a lot of this stuff comes out in like group scenes, dinners, the middle of an argument like trying to rewatch just like me. A storyline was very difficult because, you know, it's like they're always uncovering secrets in this group and it's just very frustrating. Like, I think the first time you hear about Inc Incognito, which he was incognito at this point was Karen just brings him up and says, like, I heard about him at this event or something. So the first time we even hear about him is just this crazy accusation. So it's always in these weird pieces. And yeah, I feel like no one like Gizelle or Ashley or anyone is really pulling me aside and saying like, let's have a really serious conversation about what's going on in your life. And even and I mean, Mia plays into that, too. I mean, this season she has that, you know, the out of that she pulls everyone she's like, I need to tell Brittney from Salt Lake City. So I have an announcement. Yeah, well, and I also think that the way she is disclosing whatever's happening with Gordon feels insensitive on her part, too, because there is sort of like almost this narrative she's trying to spin that he's abusive, right? Like that his manic or his mental illness makes him abusive, which spoiler alert, bipolar people are not abusive. Abusive people are abusive. And then she's also like saying a lot about like how he's erratic and like. Right. And I think something here, especially in this most recent episode when Karen was like, well, if he's not safe, like go take the children and like get them away from him. If he's not safe, like, why have him around? When I didn't feel my son was safe, I went with the police and got my son. And I think it hit for her that like the story that I'm spinning might be too much because I actually do need Gordon. I do know the children need Gordon and we see these scenes with Gordon and the children. The children seem very securely attached to Gordon and feel really safe around him. Even if we go to that like and we'll get more into that divorce scene like the Jeremiah is talking about how sad he is and me is like oh, don't be sad. Like trying to like make everything better. And when Gordon's like, No, it's okay to be sad. Like, that's all right. Like, if you need to be sad, this is something that it's okay to be sad about. And he clearly has a lot more ability to hold emotional space for the children than Mia does, which, like makes sense that Mia struggles with that, because I imagine there haven't been many people in her life who allowed her to hold emotional space or write like she's probably been in survival mode since she was six years old just to give like a rewind on Gordon, we get a lot of different stories on like how they even got together, essentially, but it's all right. Was it at the strip club? Was it at a nonprofit? Yeah. I'm going to tell you the bits and pieces that I can recall and you correct me, but that comes out then. Yeah, it comes out. They met at a strip club. Also, it comes out that he was married to someone else and they were basically having an affair in Miami, having sex on the beach. And he's much older than her. Too much, we're not sure because there's different things about how old she is and how old he is or the age differences. So girl meets the like, write her story down. So she remembers, like what she's trying to sell. Yeah, definitely. then there's a whole rewriting of their whole story. Mm hmm. In the end of last season, when they announced that they were divorcing. And by day, I mean, I guess Gordon called TMZ and told them this, or that's what Mia says. But basically, Gordon says She had had an affair on him with ink right before they got married, but he he forgave her. There's also been a lot of talk throughout the seasons of threesomes and freaky deaky. Deaky. And they just have always seemed to me like they have a pretty open relationship, which is really, you know, your own life, right? Yeah, that's. And as long as they're both communicating that and basically he says, Yeah, I knew you had this affair right before we got married. And then we got married and I forgave you. And then he says at some point around when he turned 70, which we don't really get a good timeframe on. He had had prostate cancer and that and I'm assuming this must have been after they had their two kids, because we're also talking about the paternity of their eldest son as maybe being INXS. So he says, I got prostate cancer. I was not. Sex was not happening for me. So I went to you and I said, If you want that, you find someone, go and do it. And kind of gave her this open permission. But then she is sort of saying that the INC stuff didn't even happen until the whole drama with the business happened and he was depressed, which is really the beginning of last season. So he was making it seem like that permission moment happened before that. So it's all very shifty. But basically in that conversation they're kind of saying there was always this kind of agreement of like you can do and I can do it with some level of openness. Yeah. And he said, Just respect me and don't bring any guys around our kids. And you broke. My guess is that like ink was outside of that like agreement and it was like because she had this prior relationship with that person, it would make sense that like that might have been a boundary that, Gordon said, and we don't know because they didn't share enough about it with us. But a boundary of like you can't, you know, know people who you've been with before, who you have, like emotional attachment to. That's kind of what he accuses in that final scene in last season. He says not ink. It was not ink. he's like, because you told me ink was your soulmate. You told me all these things. And that's why I said not ink. But it is like a little bit I don't I mean, their whole relationship is a hot mess, let's be honest. But like it is a little bit strange to me. It's like, okay, you can go have an affair. But, you know, she only really wants to have an affair with one person. But then you say she can have an affair with that person. It's like make it make sense. And meanwhile, we we are introduced in the second season. She's on to her best friend, Jacqueline, and they've had some dalliances. And it's unclear to me if that was with Gordon or not. or with ink or without ink or and then we hear the story about me being sexually assaulted by Jacqueline's boyfriend. And that is part of like one of their fallouts or one of they're like not talking to each others. Yeah, I get very confused about, like what? Like they come in, they're like these best friends. They're close, they're sharing a room, they're showering together and like, all that's good. But then it feels like Mia is really mean to Jacqueline. Where Jacqueline is like very loyal and ready to like stand up for Mia at like every corner with these women. And I think that's an interesting dynamic. And I wonder if that, like, always existed or if that's something that's just part of, like, how Mia showing up for the show. But it does feel like there is this dynamic where Mia becomes the bully to Jacqueline and Jacqueline's like, I got your back no matter what, and I wonder what that's about. Part of me thinks that, like, Mia has always been the good time girl and gotten Jacqueline into spaces that maybe Jacqueline being a little more introverted and being a little less like out there in the ways that Mia is out there, that like Mia has exposed Jacqueline to a lot of like experiences that she wouldn't have gotten and that like. Puts Jacqueline in this place where she's, like, willing to accept bad treatment from her in order to, like, get to these spaces, one being the show. But I imagine like even before that there were like experiences even like I imagine them being like younger and Mia being the one who could like get them into clubs and get them into these places. And Jaclyn really liking that. It feels like Jaclyn also knows her history so well. They talk about like she came with her to the hospital when her dad was dying and he was incarcerated. I think she's seen so much of it. It's hard for her and I and they've talked about how Mia would buy her cars and like buy her things. I feel the dynamic of their relationship, especially in that first season she was on, was so fascinating to me because I was like, okay, you have someone who's best friend who her family took her. And so that's already some sort of like she feels some owing of Jacqueline and then she gets her a card. She's paying for things and then they're fighting on this Miami trip or it and this other trip, and And also there's this innuendo that they shower together and they have some kind of sexual relationship, which is like I mean, they clearly do because we talk about it in the most recent episode that they say we had like a threesome with a guy. It's kind of inferred that it's inc, but then Mia's like, shisha, shush. And I felt like the way it was handled in this most recent episode, Jacqueline's like, Listen, I was 19. I was exploring things I'd never explored, and it was fun and I don't feel any shame about it. And if we want to talk about it, like, let's talk about it. So she handles it quite well, and then she's in the corner being like, Shush. She's both shushing, but giggling. And it's, it's really interesting. And again, it kind of feels like to me that reinforces what I understand to be their dynamic, which is that like Mia is the one that's like, come with me, I'm going to show you the world because you took me in and you take care of me. So I'm going to show you and give you all these experiences and give you a car when I can afford that. And like I'm going to give you all these things, but I'm also going to remind you that I see you as a little less than. And I feel like that's the dynamic we that I experience, even with the shush shush. It's like you should know not to share this. And it's like. But why? Like what? Like, what is that? And that's like Mia being like, I want to control the story. I want to be the one who says how things go. I'm the leader. Here you are, the one in second position. That makes so much sense because I was like, Mia, you've shared much worse on this show or Jacqueline's talking about in this moment, But what I want to say is that scene where we learn about the sexual assault is at Karen's. Sexual Assault Awareness event it was very beautiful bat and got me I guess shout out to the it was arm pave which is a really big organization for interpersonal violence and sexual assault. So Mia gets emotional and walks off and Ashley comes and follows her and she reveals, This has happened to me. And then she reveals it was Jacqueline's boyfriend and that Jacqueline left her there with her boyfriend and Mia couldn't get out of the situation. And she doesn't give obviously any details. Then in interview, we also hear that she's she's connected, that this incident is why her and Jacqueline have issues in their relationship because she has resentment towards her. And Jacqueline also feels guilty about what happened. And it's this underlying subtext that's been playing out their relationship. And to me, it was like the way that it all went down at this event and produced a very random moment was was really enlightening. And I was like blown away. What I didn't like was Dan, we never saw Jacqueline. Like, Jacqueline wasn't on that season. We never had a scene about this. We never followed through. And there was no repair, right? Like, there's no like, okay, you've given us this information, and now we're going to see you guys sit down and have some conversation. It's sort of like, okay, I shared that. And I think this is the thing with with Mia and even the way that she shared that, like, that's such a big thing to share. And it's like, thank you for letting us in and sharing this experience. And it does give us a lot of context to understand this dynamic that's playing out where like you bully Jacqueline and she kind of like accepts and still stays loyal and is trying to constantly make amends for where she is perceiving. She has guilt about something or blame or responsibility. But also like the way she does it is such like in the way she does everything, which is like this histrionic presentation of I'm going to walk away and cry in the bathroom. Meanwhile, like other women are sitting at the table, like just sharing, like they've all like I think most of them had shared some experience of like sexual violence and were able to openly talk about it and have clearly like done some level of work on it that has allowed them to be able to share it in a platform without, you know, having extreme emotional response where Mia has to, like, walk away, cry in the bathroom. to me, it's hard to know what is genuine and what is calculating about her. And I kind of makes I kind of like that. I don't know. She's like one of those people that that that feels like enigma or like, I don't know, I'm drawn to that. Like, I don't know what your intentions are. And I, like, want I keep watching to see if I could figure it out one day. Well, yeah. And this gets into, you know, what I said at the top? It's like, okay, do we want healthy, fully formed people on these shows? Because it's just as interesting to see someone who can sit at the table and tell a story and can only be histrionic and it can only take it to that attention seeking level because it is informative. I am sure many people have a person in their life was like and it really speaks to deep childhood trauma and repeating deep patterns that she is not even aware totally. To me, her playing it out that way is there is some part of her that feels like I will not be believed in the same way these other women are if I just sit here and tell it without having an emotional reaction. And the only way I'm going to get validation for my experience is to act out. And one of the challenges as a producer in these circumstances with these kind of, you know, quote unquote characters, is like Mia having a conversation with Jackie about this would be very interesting and I would love to see it. But is that something Mia's going to do on her own in her real life? Is that is that in her character? A producer could suggest that and say, this would be good, let's put this together. But is it genuine? Is an authentic if it's not coming for her? And that's a balance. As a producer in reality TV, you're constantly playing with because there's things you want for story that's interesting that the audience would get a lot out of But then you have to say, Would this person do this? Because a lot of the times, especially depending on the show, depending on the network, depending on, you know, whatever is happening, the mandate might be these women need to come to you and suggest things, which makes it really difficult to impose tie these storylines together because you're sometimes missing holes in things because, hey, we have a conflict with someone in real life and you're conflict avoiding, you're not going to go talk to them. And Housewives has a great setup where if it's within the women, there's a group trip, there's a group dinner, there's a group event that you're forced to write. And sometimes as a producer, you kind of have to push like you're at this event, go talk to them, like whatever. But like when you're talking about these sort of what I would say a quote unquote B stories, which is their personal lives, that's harder to. You know, meddle with or push for because it really is their real life and you have to capture that. So I think it was a missed opportunity in not having Jackie as a friend of that season and maybe not getting that. Now she's back as a friend of would have been great to see it come up but there's also a lot of right because now we're just seeing them like friends again and I'm I'm still holding that story. I'm still holding that tension and that dynamic. And is it I mean, I guess there's still a few episodes left, like something could get addressed, but it seems unlikely. And I hear what you're saying about like not wanting to mess with like the authenticity of like how they would do things. And on the other side of that, like just by being filmed and being on these shows, they're being put in, like, kind of inauthentic situations, like. Right. Like having a camera follow you, you're already going to act a little differently than you would act if a camera wasn't there, whatever that means. Right? Like the camera and the show automatically put on a pressure of, I need a storyline, I need to show something, right? Like there's something that that adds. And as we've talked about before, I do think there's something around like, yes, we want to see the mess and I want to like keep seeing her be like this sort of complicated, messy person who has five different identities that do not seem connected at all. And I think we are getting to a point with her where this season feels like her bottom and we need to see her have a point of growth next season. Otherwise it's going to for me, it is going to bring down the show. This feels like a true bottom, like this feels like all of your lies all this way that like you exaggerate your life to distract from your vulnerability, to distract from accountability is being seen by everyone, including the audience. Right? Like all the women on the cast see it and our off put by it, the audience is starting to feel off. But at it this is your bottom and this is your opportunity to reflect and do something and try to like heal from these traumas. And part of that probably is sitting down with Jacqueline and having a conversation about that. And part of it is sitting down with Gordon and saying, like talking about his bipolar and going to a therapist and getting support around how to manage a co-parent who has bipolar disorder. one of the things I was thinking as we were preparing for this episode, because I was a producer on Teen Mom when we had a season with Bristol Palin, surprisingly, Sarah Palin's daughter, she was married to a veteran who was diagnosed with PTSD. And there was a a great scene where she saw a professional who gave her guidance on PTSD, what the symptoms are, how to as a caregiver or someone close to them deal with this. And I would love to see me do something like that, like learn more about bipolar. Bipolar one is what he says he was diagnosed with. But at the same time, like me, I would never do that. But then I think some people know bipolar one is the more extreme they tend. I'm pretty sure that's the one where they tend to have more severe, manic and depressive episodes, he explains that really well, actually in the reunion. So it does seem like he he even talks about how he checked into inpatient and and Mia was really there for him. But this is an opportunity where the other women can play a part, right? What I don't like is the collective dinners where they're like me, we're going to now call you out in front of everyone. And then they expect her to not be defensive And it's like, okay, well, for example, Ashley, having heard that story about the sexual assault, you know, maybe Ashley could have a side conversation with her and say like, that was a lie. I had no idea. Like, have you ever talked to Jaclyn about this? Have you ever seen someone about this, like, really inquire and maybe even push her to do something more? And it seems to me that with Kay, right, like she has the sit down with Kay because her boyfriend is a social worker, she kind of comes in being like, I'm a honorary social worker. Like, Hint, no, you're not. And it's a little problematic that you're kind of coming in like you can provide therapeutic support. That is like to me as a professional, a little concerning. And she's trying to like give her some support of like what are your boundaries like how are you managing this? This is a lot. I wish in that moment K had been like, here's some resources of people who you could talk to like you. Instead, she's like, I'm going to send you some worksheets. I'm like, What worksheets? Like, what are you talking about? Like you are not a professional. Like, send her some referrals to professionals. Don't act like you know something that you have not been. You are not a social worker because your husband's a social worker or your boyfriend or whoever like. And again, for him, I'd be mortified. Well, it's funny that you bring it up, because that scene totally. I went over my head. I don't even remember it. It made no blip on my like radar at all. Well, for me, it was, like, offensive. I was like, how is this woman coming in pretending she has, like, credentials because she's dating someone with credentials, which I have a theory about. K and my theory, which is not at all based in fact. So just like skip over this, if you will, if you want. But my theory is like a really good theory. Yeah, because, like, I'm like, why is she a full time housewife? We get barely of her life. We don't she doesn't seem on the level of these other women like sorry. I just don't think she is. And we have a lot of talk about this lawsuit because she got hit at that event. And I'm convinced that like, she was going to sue Bravo. And then Bravo was like, well, if we give you a housewife status, will you not see us? And she's like, Sure. Well, and there's that rumor on Bravo, Bravo and cocktails that like now she's she was hit by potentially attacked or her and Mia got into like a physical altercation at the reunion. And so to me, if, like, you're if you're getting implicated in a lot of like physical violence, like I'm like, well, what role are you playing? This is happening repeatedly. But yeah, maybe they were like, let's let's stroke her and give her a full time role. She doesn't seem full time based on, like, the way she shows up. Yeah, it's like to me, I'm like, there's some there's some political reason for why this is happening. But again, this is just my crazy thinking. But also with Mia this season. Oh, yeah, I was going to say, oh, so speaking of rumors this season, so there was a whole interaction between Giselle and Mia where she brings up, you know, you want to act like your family's perfect and your kids are perfect. And and it almost seemed like she was bitter that this didn't air on the show. So she wanted to bring it up that the kids, like the two girls, were sneaking and boys while they were out of town and. So that's all we see on the show is that she says that Jesus was like, that wasn't cool. I need an apology. Ashley gets roped in because she also thinks there needs to be an apology. But the rumor online is that Mia said to her that she she called the girls little sluts or sluts or something. And there was an agreement between Giselle, Mia and production that they would cut this out, which on Jasmine's part. Smart. I mean, if you're willing to lose the most incendiary thing she said about your kids to preserve like you don't want your kids to be attached to a label slut like. I think that was a smart move on Chazelle. I think where it's going wrong in some ways is like, okay, if, if you've agreed to cut that from the show, you have to cut that from your mind. It didn't happen. You got to cut the storyline. And so now that it's out in the press, it's kind of frustrating because like, well, the whole reason was cut from the show was probably because Jay-Z was like, I don't want my teenage daughters, who's now in college, being called sluts on TV. Like, I just don't want that. So then you got to act like it didn't happen. And I don't I almost don't even like that leaked in the press because that was the whole reason they buried it in the first place. And I think that's where you're seeing Ashley get more upset because Giselle is actually kind of holding it down. And they talk about that, that Mia apologized to her off camera. And again, like, if you're going to cut things from the show, yeah, then maybe that conversation is best had off camera because we didn't see it on the show. So I think that's more genuine when something happens off camera. But not for me to write like this. Also, it's interesting that Mia would call anyone a slut given like the way that she shows up around her, like, sexuality and, like, seems to want to hold an idea of, like, sex positivity and right. Like, she, she. I have a lot of feelings about this, like what I call the Jessica Rabbit archetype, where she, like, kind of comes in is a seductress, is putting her, like, sexuality out there. One, I think it's a distraction, and I think it's meant to distract from vulnerability. It's like, look at this. Like these are going to distract from anything else that's going on with me. Like, if you if I if I bring out my sexuality, it distracts from anything else. I also think it is probably a coping mechanism she learned in response to her like attachment trauma of like my sexuality is something that gives me a lot of it gets me a lot of like validation and attention and helps me avoid feelings of inadequacy and feeling less then because I get a lot of like positive and even like the negative feedback I get, you can kind of like turn it into positive in your mind because it's still like attention and people noticing you and I imagine with someone coming from her place. But it's just interesting given that like way that she shows up on the show in her life, that then she's like kind of using sex negative terminology towards, you know, these young girls. And the on the attention piece, they kind of call out this Instagram thing that happened that she posted Gordon and Ink together right after she was saying Gordon's in mania and attacking ink. I mean, it does seem like because in the reunion, when we first meet ink on like a face time, Gordon's like, high. It seems like whether Gordon's core ink seems to go up and down a lot anyways, just from what we've seen on camera, which makes sense to me. Like I hear that make sense. Like sometimes he's trying to be cool with it because he doesn't have control or any ability to stop it. And then sometimes it hits him that like this is fucked like these. This guy's coming around my kids, you know, and he probably gets angry and like, is releasing anger on her, which, like, is inappropriate and they should be going to some sort of like couples therapy not to mend their relationship, but to figure out how they're co-parenting, how they're going to get along. And let's keep in mind, Gordon, is we know over 70, you know, he's he's got to have a lot of different perspectives on life in general. Like he's right. He's probably he's said he's not very sexually active. He doesn't care to anymore necessarily. He's probably looking at his kids and knowing, you know, in a few years he may not be there. It's a very different mentality to have young kids when you're that old. And I think sometimes that's not because Gordon does seem young and vital in a lot of ways that you're kind of like you don't really see, Oh yeah, this is a man that in ten years he's going to be 80, right? Like now his kids are going to be 20, essentially. So, you know, I think I think he plays with that in his mind, too. But the whole Instagram post and just calling it out, it just really harken back to me of when she had the cancer scare. And again, there was like, you know, over-the-top Instagram post and Giselle's like it seemed like, oh, grab for attention. And you don't really seem like that. And it was like, she's exactly like that. That's what she's been doing this whole time. Every fight she gets in, every time she goes over the top. And like, I feel like she said the little slut comment because she just wanted more attention and She does cross the line. And I think everyone that crosses the line, I think she has this idea about like shock value, where it's like, if I shock people that is like validating or that's going to get me something that I want. And I think sometimes it does and so it enables it. And like again, those first seasons that she came in, she would say these kind of like bold things that seemed really shocking. But as she moves forward through this series, I think what she's seeing as she has to up the ante and now it's getting to a point where it's like, okay, saying your you know, your children's father is abusive on TV. Like, like, that's not good. That especially if he's not like I don't know if he is or not. I imagine he is erratic and there's some maybe emotionally abusive tendencies in that. But like you want to be very careful that lie in your telling. And I think there's a lot of things now she's saying about his mental health. And yeah, then this thing about just girls being sluts, like there's this desire to get that that reinforcement of what shock value gives her. And I think it's the ante now is too high that like it's it's it's not cute. Well what she said. On the show about the abuse. So in fairness, she has always said Gordon is only this way towards her. And basically she said that she drained their bank account. He spends very frivolously and over the top and has done that throughout their whole marriage. He you know, when they announced the divorce, he called Wendy's husband and Candice's husband and said all kinds of horrific things about her. And I don't think he locked her in a room. I think Andy got that a bit weird, stole her phone or something. He stole her phone, but the original conversation wasn't locked in the room. And then Andy said it. But I don't. Yeah, he basically trapped her in some way and took her phone and she had to, like, leave to go to Atlanta to go, I guess, be with Anke. So yeah, I think. But yeah, it is a hard life. These are stories that your children either they are witnessing and that's concerning if they're like witnessing this happen, but also are going to hear about their dad. And we can talk more about the divorce conversation. But when parents are separating. One of the key things you really want to avoid is talking negatively or projecting your experience with the parent onto the children, especially if that's not the way they behave towards the children. Well, and it's tough on reality TV because what you're saying is, like, they're essentially they would be seeing it. I mean, we don't know what they're seeing behind closed doors. Right. Let's just talk about what's on camera. But you're essentially saying, okay, well, this is what they're going to see. There's a lot of conversation. I think Karen brings it up around the paternity issue as well. They're going to see this one day on TV. Well, they're not wrong. But I think almost the point Mia could have made in that conversation with Gizelle is like, is it that apply to all housewives and like all like any housewife that brought their young children on, brought their marriage on, that then devolved into divorce, which is like a list of now endless women. Well, it's interesting, because right now we have this comparison, right, of like Mia having this conversation with her kids about divorce that like, you know, is being perceived as like a total swap. And then we have, on the other hand, in Beverly Hills do like totally trying to shield her separation from her children, which to me is also a total flop. And I appreciate what Garcelle said people can do whatever they want with their kids. Like, that's true. But kids are sponges. And even if you think they don't know what's going on, they know kids feel tension. They feel things between their parents intuitively. And when you're not talking about it, you're making them feel more out of control about it. And there are developmentally appropriate ways to talk about these things depending on like where your kid is on the spectrum. And do I think Mia was having a developmentally appropriate conversation with her children? No. She definitely, like, missed the mark in a lot of ways. Right. She completely invalidated Jeremiah. She's then having a conversation with Gordon about the divorce in front of the children, being like, Oh, now you want it. And then they're starting to like go off on this in front of the children, which is completely inappropriate. She's asking them, she's asking the kids, Are you okay with us not being together? As if like that gives them the messaging that they have. Some say in like what happens in their marriage, and that's completely inappropriate for children. The other thing she does is she sends a really confusing message to the kids of like they're like, we don't we want you guys to be together. And she's like, Well, we practically are. Daddy just lives upstairs. And I get where she was coming from with that of like, we are still a family and we're still like going to be here for you together, which is what she should maybe a place she should have been like, well, you know, mommy and Daddy aren't going to be together like that, but we are going to be together when it comes to you and like what your needs are. And like our love for you is the most important. But what she gets right to me is she's trying to be transparent with her kids, which I think is important because they know shit's going on. Even if ink wasn't coming around, then, you know, Gordon moved out like they should know, like what is happening. I also think there's a lot of for her about like wanting a conflict between she talks about like preserving their innocence and also wanting to like break some cycles that had happened in her family where there wasn't like transparency and talking about things. And again, this is someone who has no model. Would should she could have benefited from like a therapist talking her through, like how to have that conversation, maybe doing some role plays or, you know, something like that. It also didn't feel like in the conversation they were blaming each other. So that felt like a really important thing to highlight about like what they got right. There wasn't a like, well, daddy didn't do this and mommy is like seeing Mr. Ink. So that's why like we're going to separate. Like, it felt like they did a really good job of just trying to stay, like, let us talk to you about, like, what's happening. And I don't know, I just, like, feel like everyone's a hit on it. So I don't know, like, point out, like, there were this wasn't like a total failure. I think that's really important to say because it was definitely bombed on social media. But also I want to say, like, this show is about women navigating their lives, difficult situations in their lives, their real situations. And if we just put a blanket like we're only going to show with the kids and we're only going to show with their lives when they do everything right. I mean, it is just as rewarding and informative to see her quote unquote flop in this conversation because you get a lot out of it and she will get a lot out of it by this reaction. I think maybe we're already seeing some repercussions of that. But like I know, like the conversation with Mary Cosby with her son about his drug addiction to Salt Lake City is being held as like, you know, so amazing. But is it not just as rewarding to see sort of a conversation that kind of went right in what as right as it can go in such a difficult situation as a conversation? With the kids that went so wrong I think this is difficult for anyone and anyone who, you know, their parents got divorced or is divorced themselves and has children must have some empathy for like how difficult that is. And I do get this sense that MIA values protecting and doing the best for her children. I just think she doesn't always know what that's supposed to look like due to this history of being in survival mode. And when you're in survival mode, it is hard sometimes to think about other people. And I think one of the things that Essence magazine called out was that, you know, she was caught in bed by their son with ink. And I mean, yeah, it's bad. It's just a bad look. It's just bad. But I mean, my parents are divorced. my dad brought his quote unquote girlfriend to meet us. Did not tell us that she was his girlfriend. Said it was friend why we didn't put together. They were sleeping together in the same room. I couldn't tell you. And then my sister walked in on them making out. And that's how we found out they were not friends. And it happens, you know, it wasn't a semi traumatic thing in our lives, kind of. It wasn't handled right, but people do it. It's not like now I think my father is the worst father in the world. Like we've had conversations like it happened, you know, I mean, anyone to sugarcoat it, you know, Mia, to show up as like this perfect, succinct, eloquent parent, like where is that coming from? Because that's it feels like maybe there's something in you that feels insecure about your own ability to like have difficult conversations with other people. And so when you see someone doing it badly, your instinct is to shit on them as opposed to be like, Oh we're all human and like we all carry different traumas, we all carry different experiences, and that impacts the way we do things. And you know what? Her kids are going to need therapy. Sure. Like they were going to need therapy if they walked in on her having sex with anger. Not like I mean, I don't know, like, yeah, it's bad, but it's also like she like what? What are our expectations of her and where do we, like, start to see her humanity under this that allows her to start to take accountability because I think holding some like witches fire of her like you're a bad lady, you're terrible person is not what encourages people to reflect and take accountability for like what they're doing and instead being like, hey, think about how traumatic that might be for your kids. I get that. Like, it must be hard when you're navigating a difficult marriage and want to feel fulfillment both sexually and emotionally and all of these things And it's got to be really hard to be a mom to two young children and a sexual person. And I think she world doesn't leave a lot of space for women to be sexual people, because I bet if they had walked in on Gordon with another woman, there would be less of a negative response. She talks about that the end of last season. She says, I am in a place where I need someone to fill me up like felt as Vicki Gunvalson will say, fill my love tank and you know, love me and be there for me. And you kind of see that playing out this season where she's really taking care of Gordon and Anka's, taking care of her. And at times it works and most times it's not working, it's dysfunctional. but that is sort of where they're at. And again, with the children, it's like they're being raised by two parents who have serious mental illness issues, serious childhood traumas, and then you put on the financial strain and all the moving around and who knows where they live half the time. I mean, there's just there's so much to criticize that it's almost unfair that the women do it in the way that they do it at a big table and just calling her out. And again, they say it comes from concern. But if it's true concern, why isn't there like a slowing down and being like, hey, how you feel in. Because what's going on is messy. And it makes me think that there's something deeper going on for you. And it does feel like in general, the production Bravo, the women all feel like this is too dark and like let's not dove in too deep. But it's like what you see on Salt Lake City is like, no, when it's dark like that, we got we got to get into it. We got to get into it, and we got to really give a full picture so that we understand because otherwise it comes off Cavalier and I and I know that it's not and It's funny that everyone saying, get her off her screen and get rid of her because I feel like we need to lean into it. I know. I think next season could be a redemption arc for her. Like I said, I wonder if this is like her bottom, if she watches this back and she is able to take like, do I think we're going to see a one? Probably not. But do I think there could be some movement into a place of like higher accountability, higher true vulnerability, like bringing down some of those defenses because to her all of this like fan reaction, what I imagine happening in her sort of trauma, just disorganized attachment mind is like, this is danger or people hating me and like threatening my job and threatening my livelihood is danger. And so now I need to find ways to protect from that danger where if we like, yeah. If more people could hold some empathy and be like, hey, like, Mia, slow down. Like there's a lot of trauma here that you need to deal with maybe before, like, doing anything else, she wouldn't feel so threatened. It feels like the New Years post and breaking up with Incognito is a reaction to this fan response, the Essence article. It does feel like maybe she felt under attack and, you know, risk of losing her job and that sort of which is not healthy and not a good decision either, because it's not coming from an authentic place. But again, like we're kind of getting into the final question. So, you know, the final question being is me a good for reality TV? I think we've been advocating for that this whole time. But yeah, I would like to see another season of her and give her a chance to take in everything that happened this season and like, how are you going to apply this I think I get where people are coming from. But if you look at the end of last season in that reunion where Gordon so openly disclosed his bipolar, disclosed how much she's been there for him, disclosed that they're working on this co-parenting relationship, that he's he's seemingly seemed cool with ink, like it ended with Andy being like I love this for you. This looks great. you're really working on things. And to go from that to the hot mess of this season, we're in the mix of what's what they're trying to figure out. So I could see next season being a whole new, different, you know, scenario. And I am interested even, you know, Bravo Bro's went into the issue of the paternity test and they don't even want to see it. And I know a lot of people online are like, I don't think it's right for Jeremiah to be getting his paternity questions. I mean, I just finished the Jerry Springer documentary on Netflix, which is actually really good. But, you know, we've been doing these paternity test on Maury Povich and whatever for, you know, 20, 30 years. Do I think it's right? That's a different question. But I am kind of interested, like the stories of the paternity test is the same as the cancer, same as the same as everything else, where it's like she says, I got an IUD, which means like she 100% knows it's Gordon's. But then another story of sex in that period with Amy, like. And then basically she said, I told Gordon there's a chance it's anx and we both agreed. We just never addressed this. So it's like the stories are always changing. I wouldn't mind a conclusion to that. Also, for Jeremiah's sake, to be like, This is already on TV and it's being questioned. So like, let's just so that when he googles his name, it comes up clearly like it's been resolved. I wouldn't mind to see that. Right. Like going back. Should they have brought this on TV? Like, no, because it's basically kind of exploiting your son for a storyline and that is really problematic. And I think I get why people would be upset with her about it. But I also like if we're to go to like her, like if I think about like where is this coming from and her, is this really just her seeking storyline or is there something about it that, like, wants this kid? Should be inks to potentially fuze her fuze that relation like give her some sense of security in that relationship like oh, if we have a child together that he has to stick around. Like, I wonder how secure she feels in that relationship. And going back to like Jackie disclosing that moment like of her in a hooking up, like I wonder her fear about that coming out is like will that upset ink? Will that like make ink not want to be with me? Because now he's like getting in the mess of this in a way that like he's not comfortable with. So part of me wonders if that's part of her motivation is if Jeremiah is eggs that we you know I I'll feel more security in my relationship with him that's why I question without the show I don't think she'd ever do the paternity test. I think they would leave this open forever, which is, I think, worse for Jeremiah, because the questions now already out there, well, now that it's out there, they have to like do something. But again, like having put it out there. And anyway, as I think where the core of the problem is that this even came up as a storyline like if this is something you wanted to do, Mia, there was a way to do it quietly and a way that would not expose Jeremiah to like any of this. So the next question being, is reality TV good for Mia? I would say in some ways it is because I don't think that she would have a lot of her behaviors reflected if it wasn't for the show. I also think it gives her financial independence. That's been a question going on. And often the show is like, okay, well, when she got in the show and started making all money, is that when things with Gordon fell apart? I don't know the answer to that question, but I don't know. I think it could be good for her. I always think that piece of like women maybe needing a space to feel financial freedom that allows them to make different choices about their relationships and their life. Like I think the show often offers that to women and we, we've seen it time and time again. I do feel a little confused about what her actual find and does she have a trust fund? Does she, like have savings from work? Like what? Oh, I forgot about the inheritance storyline. She dropped at some point where it's like, wow, what's what? Yes. Now gone. But do I think that is the TV show good for her? I think that we don't know. Yeah. I think there is this potential for us to see a healing and redemption story for MIA over the next couple of years. And so I do hope they keep her on. Yeah. So, you know, her future as far as Potomac or just in general, what's going on with Potomac? One thing Giselle threw out there on, I think, watch what happens live. She said, Oh, I heard Mia was going on love and hip hop. And I just want to say, as a producer of Love and hip hop Atlanta, it premiered this week and it's streaming on Paramount. Plus, you can watch it on MTV. And 11 hip hop original seasons are now streaming on Netflix and it has a legacy of its own, been on for almost 15 years and put some respect on our name Giselle. Okay well two winters she was saying that like not because she actually thought she was going to love and hip hop, but it was a derogatory it was like it was a derogatory we belong. Yeah. And that's why I want to say put some respect on her name because we would be covering this quite well to say and I would want to know way more about Incognito, what is his job, what's going on, more scenes with him. I think because she is so inconsistent and has this relationship with lying that it makes me think like because there's so much of it recorded now, she can't distract from it in a way that you can if it's not recorded. And so I kind of think that provides such an opportunity for reflection and accountability, taking that she wouldn't have if she wasn't on reality TV. I think this season of Potomac, you know, getting Candace off, I love Candace as just a standalone. I would love to see our traitors like I want to see her in other places. But she was toxic the last couple of seasons of I mean, really her whole time on the show has taken everything too far, never letting anything go. It just made the story stop. And Robin kind of never gave anything. I don't miss her. I know people are saying she should come back. I don't get what I talk about. Who's the most deeply problematic person on the show right now? Karen Huger. Karen's got to go like she did nothing wrong and that she's going to be vindicated. Then continuing after she gets, you know, this guilty this guilty verdict, saying, look, I don't understand why it's guilty. We all see the videos. Like I feel like her sentence should have been worse. Like, I don't think this person was unwell. Those videos are concerning. And and now going into rehab just at the time when the reunion was being filmed feels more like a calculated move. Then I really see there's something wrong and I need to heal. And I hope there's still potential if she's going in for even the wrong reasons, that she can get something positive out of it and experience some healing or some sort of responsibility taking journey. But to me, she, like anyone who's saying me, has ruined this show to me this season and I don't want to say this for all seasons. I do think Karen has issues that I take a lot of issue with because she's just someone who like takes zero accountability and thinks she's so much better than everyone in ways that make me extremely uncomfortable. And maybe that's something I need to look into in myself. Why that's triggering for me. We got to do care and now we've got to do care. We've been triggered. We must do her. But this season to me, she is the one who like, I don't want to watch her say pretend to be sober in front of the woman, in front of the women, and then have a talking head where she's like, I don't need to be sober. I'm fine. That was inspired. While I step literally the same week those videos come out like didn't occur to me. Justice for Mia and Jacqueline. They're the only two people who brought our charge accountable and tried to hold her accountable. And then what did Karen do? Turn it around, say, well, Mia, you were addicted to opioids. And then she was like, Yeah, I was. That's how I found my chiropractic business. I tried to do some healing for it. Like, Yeah, she do all of it. No. Because she found new coping mechanisms that are unhealthy. Yes. But like, yeah. So adoption, whatever, lying and having, you know, this seductress personality are much less dangerous than opioids. And I think that was a lot. But yeah, I mean, I feel like there's a bit of an amnesia here. People mean like, get Jacqueline to me off the show. I mean, they're the only ones who have been pushing that storyline. And really, it it wasn't for them to on the show and not even just Mia because I don't think she would have done it and doing that. Karen is innocent. Yeah. And then it would have been guilty. What? She was proven guilty and we'd have nothing up because we know she doesn't go to the reunion. So which there's no statement of her going to rehab until the day of the reunion she had to know that how that was going to be perceived. No decision. Seems like it was made to kind of avoid going to the reunion, but not make it look like she said. I don't want to go. And the balloon moment for Jacqueline. I mean, how many other housewives who've gotten into some legal trouble or DUI or whatever that that moment with Jacqueline with the balloons didn't go viral and be like she told her there's something happening with Karen Hughes, that she's getting a crazy pass on this incident. And it it doesn't. Not for me. I am not giving. And look, my husband loves the grand. She may be his favorite bravolebrity. Not anymore, because he doesn't think any of this was a good look. And so now he's reevaluating his relationship with her. But yeah, like, no, no past. Like what you're doing is so deeply wrong. And like, to me, at least Mia knows that she's not perfect, right? She's not pretending she's perfect. She's not pretending she's getting it right. Like, she kind of embraces that. Like, I'm a little messy where Karen acts like she is better than everyone else and literally getting caught having sex by your son. Like, that's bad. You could have killed someone, Karen. You are lucky you didn't kill someone in those videos we saw. Yeah, I mean, and this is not the first time you've done it. It's multiple times. So how are we comparing her, you know, messages? For me, this whole podcast is Justice for me. Yeah, that is. Yeah, Justice for Mia. I never thought those words would ever come out of my mouth because I have never been the biggest fan of Mia. So if you weren't not you look, she's complicated. She's problematic. You know, I always find when I have a four year old so I like watch a lot of like Disney movies with him. And I find myself most attracted to the villains that have good and bad. And so in like the new Moana, there's like this like Matangi character who's like, kind of good but kind of bad and like, moves between. And if you've ever watched PJ Mask, if you're a mom, Jenny, you'll get into it in like three years from now. There's this one Luna girl who is, like, the most complicated villain, because sometimes she's like an ally to the PJ mask and sometimes she's working against them. And that's kind of how I see Mia as like this complicated villain, like where she's got these parts that are like, literally, like your intention is to, like, lie and like, distract and like, you must know to some capacity that's what that's what you're doing. And so there's some intentionality in that. But then I just feel like there's also parts of her that are like so innocent and so just like trauma responses and like, so, like, silly and girls girly. So she's just to me, like this complicated character where I can see like that. She holds both a dark and a light side to her. I love that. And you've even you've been trying to convince me of this for a bit, I feel like and you've turned me officially. But if you are listening and you feel opposite, please follow all of us. Justice for me. Instagram is unhinged and on camera. Feel free to drop in the inbox. Hit us on our fan mail. Tell us you know and well, well, well. Dress address will drown more unpopular opinions. Listen here we are giving like unpack that should be our like our hashtag like our tagline is unpopular opinion whatever social media saying we're going to do the opposite take just for shits and giggles that even if we don't agree with it just just for fun season. Oh, I think we've always loved being like devil's advocate. Yeah. So stay tuned. We have some new ones. Anything else from the weekend? Bravo. You wanted to drop before we wrap up? I mean, we could talk traitors, but maybe let's pan out and still. Morning. Yeah. Traitors is a journey that I'm not loving that much, but there's only three. I also like Southern hospitality is giving everything, and I'd love to do an episode maybe onto Abby, Should we do someone in Southern hospitality or is it tune do? Yes, I do want that because Emmy is is crazy this season and her jump from last season has been crazy. Also I posed this question on our Instagram is Maddie and Joe the new Bravo couple now that Paige and Craig broke up and I would love for someone to suggest somebody else please anybody. But I don't know why I do kind of ship them right now. Yeah. And we have we have the rest of southern charm and a whole season of summer house to mourn the loss of Paige and Craig. Yes. And we want to do some Kyle from Beverly Hills, especially now that she's to me, I understand she's being finally seen for who she is. Oh, yes. All right. Well, come back to us for unpopular opinions. Tune in for our unpopular opinions as they come out every other week. Thanks, guys. Thanks.