Kyle Richards and Mauricio Umansky

Back in season one of The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, a psychic told Kyle Richards her husband Mauricio would “never emotionally fulfill” her—was she right all along? With Kyle and Mauricio’s split unraveling over the past two seasons, we’re diving deep into their dynamic, the surface-level scenes, and what Kyle might not be saying out loud. From cheating rumors to the Morgan Wade connection, we break down what’s real, what’s for the cameras, and what Kyle’s really feeling. Tune in for our takes on the emotionally unfulfilled Mrs. Richards.

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Chapters

• 4:27 Intro to Kyle and Mo
• 12:50 Mo starting the Agency
• 21:01 Kyle changing her personality
• 35:03 Mo still wanting to party
• 43:08 Kyle teasing her relationship with Morgan
• 49:08 Kyle's relationship with production
• 56:01 Kyle's reaction to seeing Mo with other women
• 1:00:58 Final Questions
• 1:08:36 Bravo gossip session

Transcript

Hello. Hello. Here we are back again. Yeah, we're back again. we've added some some interesting factors into this episode. We're using AI for the first time ever. Inspired by Jamie Stein using AI because basically everything we do is inspired by him. It is. I was like, is AI that intuitive about people? And I was kind of shocked at what it spit out. I was so, I was actually very fascinated and wow, I, I worry about my job. I do now think it may be replaced by AI in the future. I was gonna say, I do have a friend who was like, I legit use chat GDP for my therapy. I mean, I don't know if that's great. Like, but she's like, it makes all my decisions. Like what I eat for lunch, what I do, who I date. And I was like, So she might be using, be having, like, wrong expectations of therapy because therapy shouldn't be about, like, telling you what to eat or who to date, but... Well, I think that's in addition to the therapy. I mean, you know, the hardest part of it is listening to the advice, not getting it right. Right. Right. Taking it in, I guess, like, chat GPT giving, like, advice or giving feedback is probably very, it's much easier to take. Than from a person because it's easier to like not feel judgment from a computer screen. Good point. Good point. Uh, so we, uh, are handling Kyle Richards and Mauricio. We've been teasing this episode for what feels like years now. Yeah. And I still don't feel prepared for it. I know. I just feel like every episode of this season of Beverly Hills, I was like, wait, we're going to get to that scene where things like make sense. Right. And then like it never happened. I didn't watch all of his like Netflix show, but I saw I would say like the majority of clips online. about their actual relationship because I'm not that interested in the whole real estate of it all, but um. I like to see a nice house. Making me too jealous these days probably. Um, also cause I live in Los Angeles, cannot afford any of these homes ever. Um, but anyways, so yeah, I feel like I kept waiting for this ball to drop where we would like understand. It's like, oh, this is why this happened and this chain of events is going on and yet like. I don't think we ever, I don't know if we're ever going to get that. I don't know if they even have access to that within themselves, which is maybe my hypothesis of what this episode is going to be about for me and you is like. What do they have in them as far as like vulnerability and connecting with their own emotional needs? Well, and I feel like Kyle does this thing where she drops just enough where you think you're gonna get, like, it's almost like she knows the trailer moments that are gonna hit. And so she says them and then you're like, oh, okay, like, we're finally going to get this. you know, there was a couple scenes where she like broke down crying and I cannot for the life of me remember. what she's crying about like what the content of those tears were about um also last season when she's like teasing at like He did something to break my trust forever and then like refuse to ever explain that. It's like, why say it if you're not just going to go there? Well, and then that, like, connects with the Morgan of it all and I, you know, I have mixed feelings about Garcelle going so hard on her about, like, tell us what's going on because I think everyone should be responsible for their coming out journey if that's what's happening. Yeah. And like, you're showing us this, you're teasing us with this like flirtation with this sexual music video with all of these things and then you're saying, well, it's nobody's business. Well, and it's a good juxtaposition this season with Dorit, and just so you all know when we're recording this, Dorit has just, like, filed for divorce from. Let's give her some snaps as she should. Yeah, like, good for you. And I'm interested in how I almost feel like Dorit coming in and being so open triggered Kyle a lot and I think Like, that scene that they had at Dorit's house was one of the rare times that we did kind of get something from Kyle, but it still, like, didn't explain anything. Um. But yeah, like, let's jump into a little bit of the past. I know we talked about this in the Kyle Richards and her sisters podcast. Um, but yeah, I mean, in the early seasons, Um, you know, Mo is very much like happy wife, happy life. He doesn't like conflict. He says like, I just keep my wife happy. And up until the separation, he continues to kind of like Throw that company line. And then there's all these rumors that he's cheating on her. you know, Lisa Vanderpump brings it up with the tabloids. You know, there's other references that he might be like stepping out on her. But, you know, from what we see on the show, they're having these perfect white parties every year. Their marriage is perfect. They were putting it out there that we are the perfect couple. We are the ideal couple. And jump in my chat GPT work of like. I had chat GBT kind of break down Kyle and Mauricio through this lens of internal family systems, which speaks to like, it's about not about family outside. It's about our family systems within us. So the different parts that are activated within us and how they, um, Play a role in how we engage in our emotional and relational and different parts of our lives. And so it was interesting that like part of what they were saying about Kyle and both Mo is that like, They are people who their parts are really motivated to keep up some sort of appearance. And how their identities have become really enmeshed in this image that they've created as a couple. And so there's like this lack of emotional differentiation or Identity differentiation between them as, like, individuals that, like, so much of who they are has been built on, like, us, right? Like, Mo and Kyle, like, that relationship and And I thought that was really interesting because I feel like it really spoke to like what we saw those first many seasons as we met them and got to know them like they are the ideal couple. Well, and I think the only hint that we saw of, like, even Trouble in Paradise, because even throughout any of the rumors, there's such a united front, the only... Time we see anything is the psychic prediction and season one when she says, you know, when your kids are older, you're going to break up because he will never emotionally fulfill you. And it's like. This woman is a psychic. We need to go to the psychic because she is the real deal. I mean, that's exactly what we're seeing play out. Exactly. And that's fascinating to me and I need her to have her own show probably because... I just need to go to her and have her, like, predict my life because clearly she can't, like, and in the moment it seemed like she was trying to, like, poke at Kyle and maybe she was, but she got it right. Well, and even Camille was like, I don't think that was right. I think she meant it about me and, and Frazier, whatever his name is. It's razor to me. Talk about another call-in therapist. Oh, gosh. Right? And now it's like, wow, justice for Alison Dubois. What is her name? Dubois? Dubois? Dubois? I just learned how to say du moi, so that's the only thing I can say now. Um, so, yeah, like. But it's so interesting that, like, that image was so held... Tightly, not only by Kyle and Mo, but I think by the audience, right? Like, I think all of the fans loved Kyle, right? Like, I think she's been kind of the princess of Beverly Hills. And part of that like is like everyone loved Mo. He's so cute. He's so funny. He's so like fun. Like he's so he's like got such a good personality and he's so doting and loving on Kyle. Yeah. And their relationship just seems so genuinely like perfect that we all like kind of believed the facade and it's not to say that it wasn't perfect because I imagine there was a lot of parts of it that were really good and like. It's so interesting that like the second their children are older and all these life transitions are happening is like that image crashed. Well, and I think there's something to be said. I never, like, really trust when someone's like, we never fight. And, you know, his whole philosophy of happy wife, happy life. Like, to me, I feel like that just means you're avoiding... 100% and you're shutting down and you're emotionally disconnected and I think we've seen hints of that from Mo throughout like the show like He just gets, like, ridiculously stoned, you know? Right, he's such a disassociator. He's such an avoider. Yeah. Yeah. Like, his relationship with marijuana speaks so much to his, like, desire to, like, numb and distract himself from, like, emotional vulnerability or things that make him uncomfortable. And I mean, he's built the agency into being like one of the biggest real estate companies in the world. Like driving around Los Angeles, it's like More than half the houses are agency rep. So like, and they have, you know, so many offices in so many different countries. So it's interesting to see. You just gave me a really interesting hit when you said that. Really? Yeah, like, is, wasn't there something with how he started the agency was something with, like, Rick and Kathy? Yeah. Explain that. I feel like you have more background on that. I do. Yeah. And I'm, I'm like losing some of the finer details, but I'll give you like the overview. Like basically Rick had his own real estate company. And Moe was like one of their top agents. And, you know, he was married to Kyle because... Kyle and him got married very young. She had a child from a previous relationship. Mm hmm. Um, but they got together in their like 20s. I think Kyle talks about this in the reunion this season too. Um. And so he was working for Rick Hilton and selling all these houses and really successful. He wanted to be a partner with them. And something happened in that communication of becoming a partner where Mo decided instead to just leave and make his own agency. And wasn't that part of like the initial like cutoff between like Kathy and Kyle was this issue with like business and Mo and Rick? Yeah, and I think it was brought up around that same season with the tabloids too, with that tabloid trip. So maybe that was some kind of You know, just distraction. But it's funny because in his most recent Netflix show, he talked about it again. And then that popped off with Kathy or whatever, like, why are you talking about this again? And it's kind of like, well. Well, it makes me think how that must have been like the first or one of the biggest like emotional disruptions in their family where like he- Clearly had a huge role in a giant, like, cutoff between Kyle and her sisters. And like, I wonder if like part of like their challenge of going deeper is not wanting to like acknowledge that. And I don't know, I'm hypothesizing all of this, like not wanting to acknowledge that role. And their way of like being like, we're the perfect couple is like a total way of like distracting and covering up from like, look at all this mess that happened, like. Like, what did he talk to Kyle about that? Was she, like, really okay with it? Like, was she able to assert that she wasn't okay with it? Or did she just, like, pretend to be okay with it because she needed to, like... Play the good wife and, and, you know, the things that we've heard of Big Kathy telling her daughters of like, stroke your rich male ego so that they will take care of you and you will. See the financial fruits of that and be you know, so I don't know something came up for me when you were talking about like him being like this successful businessman and him having been able to secure this like identity as like an achiever and a successor. And not much talked about like how that has impacted Kyle and her relationships with her family right like with her sisters who are like the only people she has after her mother died. Well, I would say I think that she ultimately was was fine with it or somehow emboldened by it only because we see her doing the same thing with the American Woman show later on. And then that's kind of brought up again, like, I think in the sense of business, I think she had Mo's back because she did see, like, Because of the family connections, maybe it helped him get that initial job, but they weren't really supporting him and becoming a partner. And like taking on a bigger role and he had earned that because he'd worked his ass off. So I almost feel like she was fine with it, but she like can use Mo as like the scapegoat. In that situation, because even with the American woman thing, I feel like she was still kind of scapegoating that. Like, I don't think she was still trying to be like, it's not about mom. It's not. It's just inspired by. And like, there wasn't this like, I do think she is someone who. Is okay with exploiting her family for her own benefit or even like with Mo like walking and then Gets into this mentality of like, oh, no, that's not actually what I was doing. Right. Like even bringing Kim on the show when she's actively going through addiction. I know we talked about this in our in our Kyle and her sisters episode, but I think there is a part of her that can be. Kind of like co-op these things for her own benefit and then kind of play victim of it and we see it even in her relationships with the ladies, but it's interesting to think that there's probably a relationship to that, that like. Dynamic with Mo around, like, she may have been okay with it on, like, the surface level of, like, I want him to be successful and, like, those... Surface needs of like, I want to have this like life. And I imagine there's a deeper part of her that often feels like is being re-wounded in her own behavior. Um. Of like, now I've created this problem with my sisters that I am accountable for that I have a role in that my husband has a role in and. That, like, triangulation that ends up showing up and her wanting to, like, disown and then shut down and not even, right? Like, they don't talk about these things. They don't go to those deeper places because if they do, it feels like there's, like, A volcano down there that could explode. It's like, don't go near the volcano. Well, and what came up for me was the whole situation with PK, like. Like, she was trying to call PK after that big fight in Oceanside and, like, get him on her side and play the victim with Dorit's husband. It was just so bizarre. Right, the, like... Logic she was making out of it as a way to not have to like go to this deeper place of like, oh, I can see why this would be hurtful for Dorit. I could like. She doesn't want to, like, see the hurt that she could have caused and just take accountability for that and instead, like, logics her way out of it. I think Mo did a good job in at least what from what I saw on buying Beverly Hills or the Netflix show, you know, re-explaining what happened with Rick. And I know that I guess upset. You know, Kathy and Paris or like the whole Hilton family sort of came after him in these weird comments. But I was like, he's telling it. I think Mo does a better job of owning like this is my story and this is why I did this. And I felt like that was legitimate. Whereas like if you compare that to Kyle and what she's talking about with American Woman, she's like, oh, it wasn't really about mom. Well, for her, there's so many more binds for Mo. It's so simple. It's like, they weren't going to make me that wasn't okay. And I had to do what was best for me. And I tried to do it in a good way. And it sucks that like it affected the family, but for him. It's not the same bind that Kyle gets herself in where it's like, there is both like a logical reasoning that's like, yeah, Kyle, if you want to make It's like a show about your mom like and that's a way for you to like process that those feelings and like that's beautiful art is a way for us to like experience cathartis. Right. Like go through different emotions. Like she's allowed to share her story and her perspective. And I think. But instead of just sitting with that and acknowledging that she does this, like she gets herself into this bind of like, I'm not the bad guy. And it's like, it's. It's not black and white, Kyle. It's not about whether you're the good guy or the bad guy. You can be a complex person and it's almost like she'd rather be like this simple, like, sweet, level-headed, like, You know, I am the good wife. I am the good sister. I am the level-headed one here. I'm the like, even with like, with Dorit, she's like, I'm not the bad guy. Like, I'm not, you're the one who did all this wrong. And it feels like she does that, yeah, with her friendships too. And I imagine she did it with Mo too where it's like and we're kind of seeing it right where it's playing out now that like you asked for a separation now he's living as a single man and you're Yeah, it's so, it's so, I want to get into that because I was going to say, like, even with this divorce, she's like, we're having the perfect divorce. We're still best friends. We still talk every day. Like, she still has to project this image. Mm-hmm. I want to get into some of the key scenes that happened between them this past season. But before that, I just want to like break down like between seasons. Basically. We see Kyle become essentially, from my perspective, like, almost an entirely different person. the Kyle we've seen all of Beverly Hills is like, She loves to go out and drink. She likes to do her splits. we've seen no sign of like that being an issue for her. And then like her and Mo are very much the party couple. They always do their big white parties. They always do their big events. He's all about his tequila tastings when he's in Mexico or opening an agency. and you know they have their house in Aspen or whatever but she's a Beverly Hills girl she's wearing she's like Obsessed with shopping. She's wearing her Louis Vuitton. Like that's, that's who she is and her caftans, I guess, you know? Um, and then when we come back, you know, she does talk about. How a close friend had committed suicide and that really affected her. Although I don't know, like, I feel like that was like not fully connected maybe in some ways, but like. She loses tons of weight, which she looks like, you know, she didn't need to lose all that weight, obviously, but she's like really in shape. She looks healthy though. To me, she doesn't look like unhealthy. Yeah, I mean, she just became like a health, she went on a health journey and like. Started working out all the time. Doesn't drink anymore and is now has this new friend Morgan. And it's interesting because I feel like throughout the whole season it was very much tied to her friend committing suicide. But like. And I don't want to disregard that. That was like horrible. I think, you know, her memory party that she threw was like. Very meaningful. Although I do find it interesting this season that when Sutton was talking about her father's suicide, it never came up. Or at least they didn't show us that. Yeah, but then at the same time, it's hard because I feel like how much did her friendship with Morgan play into these like. Huge changes in her, too, because even to read, you know, that was brought up in this reunion was like the last time we were close or we were friends, we had dinner with Morgan. In London and then I like kind of never heard from you. Like you ghosted me after that. Hmm. So I'm like, like how much is Kyle downplaying Morgan coming into her life as being part of these changes? Mm-hmm. Or not because it was just such a shocking difference between one season to another how Kyle became, like, essentially just a different person. Mm-hmm. What do you attribute that to, I guess? Well, you know, it feels like there's so much happening for Kyle, right? Like, there's, it makes me wonder, like, I can't remember the exact timeline, but Mo gets this show, right? Like, he has his own show now, and I wonder how much that also plays a role in this like, now we're not competing because we still get to be on each other's shows, but there is sort of like. You're doing this thing that was like my thing that was my identity was having my show and you were just the successful like. Real estate guy and that was your identity and the one thing that differentiated me even though you were on the show was that I had a show and now you have a show and so like I don't even get that. So that's one thing that's kind of coming up for me. I think the other thing is obviously like her daughter's getting older and all moving out and getting into their own relationships and going through their own things and needing her less. Um, and then I think her friend dying, that must have, like, especially by suicide, that's, like, I think a huge trauma to go through and must kind of kickstart this thing about, um. For me, I'm like, I wonder how much that triggered for her a feeling of needing more emotional connection. And because that's not the basis of what her and Mo's relationship is, not getting it there, but then getting it from someone like Morgan potentially, right? Like, I think female friendships can provide that. That level of intimacy from someone who, you know, we don't know, like, was it romantic? Is it romantic? What's happening on a deeper level and the amount of time she's spending with this person and Different things we're hearing about her relationship with this person don't feel like a friendship. She's someone who's like, oh, we said I have hundreds of girlfriends. I have lots of girlfriends. I have lots and lots of friends. And yet it feels like this friend is very different than all of the other friends she has. And so during this time of so many things and having this like unstable, like sense of self and who you are and needing, um. Someone to process some of those deeper emotions with and having Morgan to do that like it makes sense but it almost feels a little like then she attaches her identity to Morgan right because isn't Morgan sober doesn't Morgan really like to work out. even like her saying, I want to move to Aspen and just live this like country life. It's like where and then we see this scene in buying Beverly Hills of her on the mountain bike. With the Hermes bags and I'm like, just like, if I could find a better visual demonstration of like What the fuck is happening with Kyle Richard? It's her on a mountain bike in Colorado with Hermes bags. Right. Like, what the fuck is going on? I mean, I think with Morgan, even the few scenes that we've seen with them, they don't talk about like too many deep topics, but you just tell there's like another level of Emotional and that prompts a lot of the questioning of her sexuality, honestly, because it's not just like a flirtation. It's almost like the comfort and how she leans into it. Um, and also like I, I mean, some people thought. Andy was being too harsh. There was like this crazy Instagram from this guy who was a producer on Beverly Hills Housewives who now does OnlyFans who said he got like ghosted. We talked about this, but he says he's got ghosted from working on Beverly Hills and Orange County Housewives because he started doing OnlyFans. I have like a little bit of a different take on it. I kind of think maybe he was like. Pushing back on some storylines, moving on in a different way. And like this business is tough. Like you don't have a corporate job. You are not like contracted. Not protected. Yeah, you're not protected. So I don't know like him doing only fans like I think maybe he thinks that I would say from my experience in the industry, it was probably a combination of a few different things. Um, because he talks about one of the things that the last season of Beverly Hills he was pushing up against was someone was being forced to like come out of the closet. And as a gay man, he felt that that was like wrong. I think I sent it to you and I said, is he talking about Denise Richards or is he talking about Kyle Richards? It had to be Kyle. It had to be Kyle. It had to have been Kyle and like, you know. Even though I feel like Denise's storyline was more icky than Kyle's is. Oh, 100%. But like, I think Andy did a good job in the reunion. I mean, some people were saying like, leave her alone, like, let the mouse go. But like, he's like, Morgan. But she never lets a mouse go. Well, yeah, and like Morgan, you know, wrote this song, somebody I just saw on Instagram of this song again of like about how she's, you know, dating an older rich lady, which is like basically like if you read the lyrics, it's Kyle. It does feel like Kyle's explanation, I won't call it an excuse, her explanation for Morgan not being mentioned or talked about of being, like, Morgan doesn't want, like... She wants privacy. It's like this person is also a semi-famous person who has a public like her Instagram is not. Private like her life is not private she she again like had a real housewife in a sexual music video with her. i mean it goes back to the music video i mean andy hit the nail on the head like you can't make a music video of you guys making out and then say it's oh it's just funny and we're playing off these internet rumors And then a few months later being like, stop talking about us so much. Like, which is it? Like, it can't be both. I mean, and I'm. Also, you can't demand that Denise tell you whether she hooked up with Brandy and then be like, my life's off limits. It's almost like because that happened not that long ago, is that even like maybe part of, like, why did, why did anyone care? Right. Like, I mean, I think the bigger scandal was that Denise was married but also even more of a reason to be like, let's stay out of it and not ruin her marriage by trying to force her to come out about something that she's not doesn't want to talk about. I just think there was so much said this season around the Morgan thing that I'm just like. I'm so lost. You know, like Garcelle being like, you had that conversation with us off camera and gave us the reason. But then she obviously kept pushing it. So I trust Garcelle. Like, I trust that like, okay. I have a hypothesis. Do you think part of Kyle, and I'm curious, I don't know, do you think there's part of Kyle that wanted Morgan to be separate from this season because she wanted the storyline to be... That she is sad about Mauricio moving on and kind of villainizing him for moving on. Like, do you think there's something unconscious happening for her around, wanting Mauricio back and him being because like last season, it was like her right like she's the one like, and you could see it like Mauricio is like I don't understand what like and everyone's like, oh, look, Kyle is like getting the ick for Mauricio like I remember last season. Like, that hug they tried to do and it was like, ooh, ooh, what's happening? This is so uncomfortable to watch them try to hug and they hadn't even, like, separated or they hadn't acknowledged the separation at that point because it didn't get really acknowledged till... Right, his buying Beverly Hills, right? Like, it wasn't fully talked about. No, I can totally buy into that theory because That is where I wanted to get into these couple scenes that she had with Mauricio because I was very lost as well. Last season it seemed like the separation was very much driven by her. Right. Um. With, again, like, going back to, like, she became a totally different person. With Mo, it just seemed like whatever chemistry or love or relationship they had, like, the light switch just got turned off really suddenly. Mm-hmm. And I think a lot of people online interpret it like she's got the ick for like Mo because every scene it was like painful. Um, and for me, I'm like, okay, she does talk about her good friend committing suicide. And to me, if my partner wasn't there and I was really struggling, yeah, that could turn off. Like, we've talked about this in other episodes. I remember, like, Brittany and Jax, we talked about, like, which – We'll say some of that for the end of the episode. But like when he said, I don't want to have another kid, you could tell in her eyes that was a switch. That was you and she even talked about that recently in a podcast. So I think we've seen throughout these shows different times when like relationships almost end in one conversation. And I feel like that situation of maybe him not showing up when she needed him could have just been the like, the thing that dimmed. Also, it could have been her meeting Morgan. We don't really No, she talks on the show about him, like, not really being there, and then she also talks about traveling. Well, those two things feel interconnected because it feels like Morgan is filling in something for her that Mo couldn't. And that's like the switch right there is like, oh, I can get this somewhere else. She never says that, though. Well, she's never going to say it. Yeah, that would have to be her almost like admitting the psychic was right. And it feels like there's a part of her that wouldn't want to do that. Right, like, there's a part of her that has to admit that Mo doesn't emotionally fulfill me and she, like, still can't even acknowledge it. They're still like, we're perfect, we're best friends, we talk all the time. It's like, what do you talk about? Because based on the conversation we've seen, you talk about only, like, you talk about apartments, you talk about, um. The house you talk about, maybe your children on a, even that on like a surface level of like how they're doing with their careers and what gifts you're going to get them. Like, what do they talk about? And then I try to think back on like all the years of their relationship trying to think about like, what are the deep conversations they have? What are the emotionally raw conversations they have? And I don't know that they have any problems. I know that, like, Kyle has always kind of struggled with anxiety, right? Like, that's always been kind of present. And he's, I think... I'm just remembering something about being on the plane and or maybe I'm getting. Oh, yeah. She always had that like plane fear that now I feel like was fake maybe for TV because she flies all the time. Or, like, bug fear. Like, she's, like, different, like, anxieties that she gets, like, very stressed about. And I think there's something about Mo that's very probably calming for her because I do think, like, in her mind she is, like, a perfectionist and- Perfectionism leads to a lot of anxiety and Mo just seems like very, like, Cool, calm, and collected. And so I think that really does, like, balance her out. And so that might feel like, oh, this is emotional support because, like, when I have anxiety, he's, like, my calm in the storm. And yet, like... Part of what is probably calming about that is he doesn't like want to get into like he's like I don't want to know what you're feeling like I want to just like smoke some weed like right like and and relax. Well, and I think we've seen, you know, even with the divorce, she's so reluctant to file. She says, I still talk to him every day. Like, there still is that, like, element of her being dependent on him in that way. Mm-hmm. Which is interesting because that is emotional support, but it's not what she needs. But, like, going... It's not deep. It's not, like, the deep... Like, it's a form of support and coping, right? Like, it's... It's not a bad thing. It's a helpful thing, I think, to have these sort of like ways that you and your partner are different and the different ways you handle stress. But that's not deep emotional connection. That's not emotional fulfillment. Yeah. And I think throughout last season what was kind of frustrating was like she's unhappy in her marriage but she never articulated Why? But also, like, what she wanted him to do to, like, fix it. Um, and I think the biggest... Well, you have to articulate why in order for him to fix... I don't think... I don't think it's just us she's hiding it from. Like, I don't think... She's, like, keeping this secret from us. I think it, I feel like she must be, like, keeping it from herself, too. And on his end, you know, I think we got more from buying Beverly Hills than we got from Housewives because it was his side of the story. And he articulated it much better. You know, he says like. My business grew. I neglected my wife and my family because I was focused on that. I think he talked about some of that. And then he had a really honest conversation with his daughters where he's sort of like, I still want to fix things with your mom, but I don't know how to. And it's interesting because we come into this season. He's got his own apartment. He's doing his own thing. I think at this point we saw a change in him because when he comes into that first scene where they talked about The pool lights or whatever they were freaking talking about. Um, he's like, you can tell he's just like, I have my bachelor pad. I'm quite, I'm happy in this new life. Like, I like this identity that I've created outside of our marriage. I get to party with hot girls and whatever. And to be honest, that's not that big of a shift from Mo before. Mo before was party guy and his wife was with him. I can see why for him- Having that great life with Kyle like all those years and then she just wants to pull the rug out and say now we don't drink now we sit at home like Why would mo like suddenly? Be motivated to be like, that's what I want. Like, you're, you're changing the rules without consulting me and what I want and. I don't want that. I want to still party. I want to still like have a good time. I want to go out. I I'm a businessman. I need that. I need the socialization. And it's like hard to take Mo's side in this because I don't support a 40-year-old or no, how old is he? Because she's sixty Yeah, he's got to be in his 60s. Yeah, like 60-year-old man. But he looks good. Yeah, I mean, dating 20-year-olds and running around on, like, ski slopes and, like, going to, like, Mykonos. Like, it is all very, like, gross and weird and fuckboy-y. But, like, at the same time, it's kind of like... I felt what was frustrating this season was Kyle kept being like, he needs to fight for me. And she did the same thing last season. And this season I kind of buy into your theory because it did kind of feel like it was like a crafted storyline from her. Where she's like, now this season I'm gonna make this all about how I actually wanted to get back with Mo. And it's like, but we see no evidence of that. And even like in the reunion when they obviously talk about him being with You know, other women and that being... Well, but then the girls are still like, you're at Morgan's concerts all the time. You're not talking about it, but we know what you're doing. Like, you're still... And even they try to mention like, do you think like Mo is doing some of this to like get back at like you being in the press with Morgan all the time? Yeah. Which I don't think so. I thought that was, like, a weird- I thought that was weird, honestly. Because I thought- I don't think it was true, but I got where it was coming from of, like, I do think that Mo is, like- There's nothing to fight for here. We're on different, you're, you seem more fulfilled hanging out with Morgan and I am more fulfilled partying. And, and like, personally, I don't think it's ick. I'm like, he works hard. He does like, let him party with girls. Like, I don't know, his children are grown. Like, Do, if everything's consensual, like, and the girls are up age, like. Yeah, I mean, you're not wrong. Everyone's got their. And if that's the life he wants to live, like, at least he's living authentically and be like, it doesn't feel like he's trying to hide it. He's just like, this is who I am. And this is how I want to be. But Kyle is still kind of trapped in between these two worlds of like, I really like this life that I'm creating for myself. And I have to like present something for the world to see. That is disconnected from that and that feels disingenuous to me. And I think she almost realized that and that's why she started like pivoting at some point. But yeah, I agree. I feel like with Mo, I think the only reason he hasn't filed for divorce is because of the financial aspect. And he doesn't need to. I'm sure he'd be fine, like, staying married. Like, I don't, he probably doesn't want to get remarried. He's probably like, I'm, I did that and I had a great marriage with Kyle and like, I don't need that again, like. I can just be a single guy. But he doesn't want to be back in that marriage with Kyle. He doesn't want to be back in that marriage. He's done with that marriage. But he's got no real, like, I do think it's financial, but I think, like, there's no real motivation for him to, like, not be married. Well, and also him still being married, he doesn't have to commit to any of these, you know, young girls he runs around with either, you know? Right, right. So it's only benefits for him. I think that's why the ladies are also really pushing her about the divorce because he's like, he's getting all the benefits. You're getting nothing out of it. Like what for why? But I think Kyle started pivoting towards the end of the season in a weird way where she's like. So after the pictures in Greece, this was a very frustrating scene to me when. Wait, is this the vine, the vein scene? No, I, I'm so lost on which one was the vein scene because someone remind us when the forehead vein scene happened because I thought it happened in the kitchen. And she just, like, started crying. But I, like, can't remember what she cried about. And I think you and I were talking about this before we started that there's, like, all these scenes of her crying. There's, like, a gun range one that we, like, remember nothing about. And it just speaks to, like... The emotional disconnect I feel towards her as like an audience. Yeah, I mean, I think the gun range scene was more about like her being an empty nester kind of feeling. But again, like, I remember none of it now. But the kitchen scene when he came back from Greece, there was an interview bite from her where she said, like, obviously after what happened in Greece and him with that girl, things have changed. And we need to like discuss the next step because we are, we can't be in this limbo. And she also had talked to a coach at some point too. And her like quasi therapist, life coach, whatever. And was like, clearly this is like, we're not getting back together after I saw those pictures or whatever. But even that felt like contrived because I almost like as a producer, if I had watched a rough cut of that scene, I would have said take that bite out. Because the scene that then happens is not her talking about their future or how things have changed or now that now that she knows he's For sure dating other people because she sees photographic evidence that now they need to discuss the next phase of their relationship. Like none of that occurs in that scene. And then the interesting part is she's like, he's avoiding talking to me because he's like scurrying around the kitchen like looking for cups. And it's like, but girl, you, like, the only thing she said to him was like, let's draw pictures. You're in as much active avoidance as he is. You said in the interview, like, this is the conversation we're gonna have. And then you don't have that conversation with him. Like, to me, that was producing 101. Like, I would have changed that interview bite. And it's almost like, if I'm remembering it correctly, she doesn't even want to acknowledge, like, how hurt she is having, like, having seen that. And part of that feels like it goes back to what I was saying, that she gets herself into these binds because can you say you're so hurt by it when you just put out, you know, months ago put out a video of you making out with a, right? Like, it's sort of like, can you... Say you're hurt by it. I mean, you can, but like, how valid does your hurt seem when it's like you are also kind of throwing relationship in the public arena? Well, and that, I mean, the music video was strange to me because Mo was like, ha, ha, ha, like commenting like he was in on the joke. So I don't know. There was something about Garcelle being like, maybe Mo is doing this in retaliation for what you did with Morgan that I just didn't buy. I think Mo is doing it because he wants to hook up with young girls and like have fun. Like, I don't think he cares to, like, stab her in the back in some way. No, I don't think Mo has any intention of, like, wanting to, like, hurt Kyle. If anything, I would say the reverse. I feel like Kyle's almost doing this Morgan stuff to get under Moe and Moe like just, just doesn't care. Mm-hmm. I don't even know. I feel like she would like to just like be with Morgan and like, I don't know. I feel like she would like to live this like different, more emotionally grounded, connected life. But there's such a big part of her and it's probably the perfectionist part that like feels like I need to hold up a certain type of image. Yeah. And I can't hold that image if I left my husband for a woman like that doesn't fit in the image that I like created of this like perfect life perfect wife perfect mother. And so like this season it feels like that's why I guess I had that like hypothesis of like how much of this feels contrived is she pushing Morgan aside to try to Almost victimize herself to, make sure this image of, I'm the wife he should want to fight for, and if he's not fighting for me, he's the problem, not me. And with Morgan this season, the weirdest, the weirdest comment she made was in St. Lucia. Garcelle's confronting her about Morgan. And she's like, I hope she's like, I can't say anything right now or whatever she says. And she's like, I hope to have a good story to tell you all. Like, what the fuck was that? Like, that, I literally screamed at my TV when she said that. Like, screamed at my TV. I was like, what the fuck does that mean? Like, What the fuck does that mean? I have no idea. Like, so. But I actually feel like Part of what was happening this season that I'm curious what you think about is that, like, she has turned on the audience. She sees the audience has turned on her and now she's, like, turned on us. Oh, God. In the reunion, I felt like we got lectured. Right, like, it feels like she's, like, angry at us and she's like, oh, you want my life? Well, maybe I'll have a good story to tell you one day if you're alive, if you're all good kids, like. But then I'm like, okay, so that means you are fucking her. Right, right. Like, and this is the thing. I think female relationships or in general like are complicated like I don't I really don't even care like the intricacies of their relationship like I don't really care if they're Like, I'm more interested in, like, the aspects we're talking about. Like, how does she fulfill you emotionally in the way that Mo did it? And even if that's just total platonic friendship, that is interesting. Absolutely and just like I think it's interesting to talk more deeply about this sort of midlife crisis she's going through around like all the changes and how her needs are changing. And how scary that is to think of your image and your identity being disrupted by this and like Part of that is related to this relationship she's built with this other woman and so you not sharing that with us is not sharing like the most interesting parts of you like what are we getting. Yeah. Well, and that comment in combination with her saying me and Garcelle had this off camera conversation made me feel like she's saying like, yeah, we've been dating this whole time, but like, I'm not ready to come out. And like of the closet essentially. And, and, and she doesn't want to be known as my girlfriend. And like, it made me feel like that was the conversation that they had off camera. Right. Now we're writing our own stories. Because she said. Because she said basically go write your own story about this and maybe one day I'll correct it. So I heard a rumor that, okay, so when she started following Morgan around the world, she initially had like a cameraman and it was like they were making this documentary. Right. I heard about this. And it was about, you know, Morgan, um, you know, I think tested positive for the gene that like, you will probably get breast cancer. Yeah. Um, and that she was going to have a double mastectomy or, or some storyline along that. And they were making this documentary about that because didn't Big Kathy die of breast cancer or? I think so. So. Really, you know, like hats off to Morgan, hats off to Kyle in this documentary you're making. Um, you know, it's interesting, I guess. But now she's been still following her around. No camera. We have no signs of this documentary happening or not happening. I don't know, like, You know, what is the marketplace for this kind of, you know, I sell, you know, more reality shows but also documentaries. Like, I don't know what the You know, she is Kyle Richards. She could probably produce and fund this thing all on her own and maybe she doesn't need a partner. Right, and she's got connections. Yeah, like. She's already got a built-in audience for something that has her name attached to it. Yeah, and it has a good cause and maybe it's just maybe it's not even like a full documentary. Maybe it's more of just like a You know, awareness piece, which is really interesting. Um, yeah, because we saw Kathy and Kyle get their mammograms this season, which was a great scene. Um, but somebody on Instagram had this theory. That she is dating Morgan and that she wants to come out of the closet, but she's saving the reveal for this documentary. And I guess that's a way to get like. Maybe she's like told all like the investors like I won't tell anyone I'll come out in the documentary and that's how we'll get everyone to watch it. I mean, this was like, you can't, you kind of have to take all the theories in because normally I'd be like, oh, it's just, you know, rumors, rumor mill. But she is always egging on the rumor mill. And not only egging it on, but like forcing us to create a rumor mill by not like telling us herself. Like, I don't understand whatever the off-camera conversation she had with Garcelle and Sutton, why that couldn't be on camera. Right. Like, I was confused even by that. And, like, the second that's admitted to, is production pissed at her that she's admitting to having these, like, important conversations about her life and things she's unwilling to just, like, the fact that we know about that, isn't that, like, Bad for her as like a reality star that like, that's how she's moving. And if I were a producer, it seems like that'd be something I'd be pissed about. Like, don't just like, if you're gonna do that, don't disclose it on camera ever. Well, and I can see, okay, going back to the producer that is now an OnlyFans who doesn't do the show anymore, like what he was saying, you know, I can see, I mean, when you work on these shows, like in general, you'll be in a lot of situations that you have to really morally take a step back and be like, am I OK with this? Because. It is tough because true documentary is like you have a camera, stuff happens, and you're just filming it. But reality TV, like... You're having a lot of conversations. Like a lot of these scenes are pre-set up. You know you're meeting Dorit for lunch. You know that they're talking about this. There's no way as human beings to not shape those things in certain ways and like also so it makes sense for the audience. Mm hmm. I can understand both sides of it from a producer and like you have, you know, a longtime cast member that's been on the show for a long time. Who's now like cutting you off from important story, but giving you all these like sound bites that then like anger the audience. she obviously not too long ago was exposing someone else's, you know, lesbian trisque. And then I can see his side of it saying, okay, well, you know, you don't want to force someone to out someone, you know? And she is a little bit, I mean, It was interesting in the reunion when Kathy tried to be like, I talked to my girls about it. And then she got so mad and she was like, I need to speak on this. Like, what was that moment? Well, to me, it kind of speaks to this like hypothesis I have about like Kyle's identity and just her trying to like figure out at, you know, fifty something years old who she is in the world. And feeling like her identity has always been attached to somebody else, whether that's to Big Kathy, whether that's to Mo, whether that's to the even like the TV show, and now like kind of to Morgan, and everyone wanting to like Identify who she is and her not, like, there must be so much confusion in her about, who am I and who am I, like, allowed to be? Well, she set up a new storyline for next season, too. She set up like, I'm going to start dating soon and you're going to see it but that was wild to me too. I was like, then file for a freaking divorce. I want to circle back to one thing. Do you think Mo cheated on Kyle throughout their marriage? Cause it was hinted at that in the reunion, They were all gonna attack Kyle because they all had receipts that he had cheated on her during the marriage and that she was gonna be confronted with this. It never happened. And I'm like, who started those rumors? Instead, we got everyone piling on Garcelle, which felt so bad. It felt so bad and so misdirected. And I think a huge mistake for all of the cast because losing her is going to be I think a huge hit to like she is likable she draw I mean she's not the most interesting I don't think Erica is wrong about that but I do think she is an important person who does. Represent something different than what is at the core of some of the like Fox Force five and that group mentality that can feel really icky and I think she also is someone who will ask the difficult questions of Kyle that no one else will ask. But and it comes from an authentic place. Like when she's being messy, it doesn't feel like. It doesn't feel mean like when Erica is being messy. It feels mean. It's like she's asking the questions I want to know. I do want to know about Morgan. Like at the end of the day, people were saying that she was pushing it too hard and maybe she was, but I want to know. So I wasn't mad at it. Like, I really wasn't. And no one else was going to ask. Everyone else was going to keep their mouth shut. Because, you know what, Sutton, you do bend to the ring of Kyle Richard. Like, they all do. well back to your question your question was okay so do you think mo cheated on okay Oh my gosh, this is so hard because part of me wants to say yes and then part of me like wants to say no because there's a big part of me that has bought into their image of like they were like this perfect couple and yet like. Mo is, like, the most attractive house husband, right? Like, when you go to, like, our, who does the March Madness? What, what, what? Two judgy girls. I love March Madness, but I think he's the only housewife husband to ever have won, right? The only other people who have won are like the younger gents, the Southern Charms, the Summer Houses. Right. I didn't even realize that, yeah. The Vanderpump rules, like, it's all the younger folk and he's the only house husband to have won. Like, he, he, Is unilaterally probably the most attractive of the house husbands. it's hard for me to, I guess I have a low sometimes opinion of like men and their ability to like. Warned off. Well, even her saying like. Like his DMs are heavy, right? Like from day one. And she admitted like he talked to girls. Like to me, okay, I don't think talking to girls on your DMs is funny. For sure cheating, but it is a lack of, that would break my trust. It could be considered an emotional affair violation. And I don't know when she said that last season like he did something to break my trust it was like But then she talks about in this reunion that she was going through the ipad and blah blah. So i'm like Is she saying, was she saying that about the past or was she saying that about what was going on in that moment of the interview? Oh, yeah. Because that would have been around the time he did Dancing with the Stars and obviously there was a lot of rumors about that. I think when they separated, he was definitely like immediately fucking other people. Sure, as soon as he probably had permission, it was a go. It was definitely a go time. I don't know that he, like, fully slept with anyone else, but I do think there were probably moments of these, like, him falling into traps of women who DM'd him or women who... Are fawning over him in the world like especially he's traveling the world without her like the more and more he's doing that and she's not around the more women who are probably approaching. Like, when he's with her, she's probably not getting as much, like, approach and solicitation by women in person, but the more he's, like, kind of doing things on his own, like, I'm sure there were lots of women soliciting him. It was interesting at the reunion when she was saying, I don't care, like, when I see him out with other girls or see other photos, it doesn't bother me. The timeline was a little confusing, too, because I feel like the Aspen, like, Photos with the girls in their bikinis was before Grease for some reason. Um. It was. I think it was. So, I don't know. I didn't even. But wasn't Dancing with the Stars before all of that? Yeah, Dancing with the Stars was definitely before all that because remember we opened this season with Kyle saying that he replaced the photo of them together with the photo of him with the Dancing with the Stars girl. Right. So it's like, it was out there that he's like, Being intimate with other women. Yeah, something was a little inauthentic about the Grease photos and how she was upset or It was a nail in the car. Like, to me, there was so much leading up before that. Like, even with the Dancing with the Stars photo that I was like, it was, and then, and then. Like, that didn't feel like the boldest thing. Yeah, and then in the reunion, it was really like, it's fine. Mm-hmm. Like, I don't, I don't, I don't, it doesn't hurt me when I see him with other girls. Mm-hmm. Like, then file for divorce. Like, it shit's over. Well, again, it's this, like, conflict in her, right? Like, of, like, I want to have this image and I want to have this life and I don't know, like, exactly how I'm supposed to show up to do that. so final questions. Um, so we always ask is, is, is reality TV? Well, I guess it should be, was reality TV good for this marriage? Oh, yeah. That's true. Um. Yeah, because there was conversation in the reunion, too. Like, do you think the show played a role in it? And she said no. Well, because what we know is, like, the show can be a thing that if there is any cracks in your foundation, like... It creates, I think the pattern we've seen is it creates an out for women who have felt very stuck and felt like their identity has been like. I need to just be the wife to this person. And it's interesting that Kyle says no, because I do think it did that for her in a lot of ways. And it, again, it kind of makes me wonder, like, Mo having his own show is, At the time that, like, their cutoff started, like, he took something from her and it makes me think, like, about that violation. Really? Yeah, I don't know why. Something is coming up for me around that. Interesting, because A, I maybe see it a little differently. The show's been canceled, so it's not coming back, so. Right, but all of the cutoff happened before that. Yeah, well, yeah. But it also seemed like she seemed very happy on that show. I think she was, she seemed like she enjoyed not having the spotlight just be on her. And it did seem like the first season, which I, again, like, really didn't see enough of this. So somebody, like, chime in. Um, if you watched all of it, but like it kind of seemed like it was their show. That's the surface of it. I think there's a deeper thing with Kyle about identity. And I guess that's the core of what's triggering that for me is when that all happened and when a show came out and probably it wasn't like when they were filming it it's like later once it starts to become a thing it's like. Oh, wait, this one part of my identity that was, like, more mine than his is now something that, like, he has... Oh yeah, because I mean her filming the iconic bike scene with Hermes on a Netflix show which has a bigger budget, let's be honest, they had a beautiful drone shot of her bike riding. I think she loved that. But then, yeah, I can see afterwards because a lot of people online afterwards were like, we get more from Moe than we get from Kyle. She got criticized a lot. So I could see. How that could play into it. Yeah, I see it more as it relates to, like, this sense of fractured identity for her and not having, like, A sense of self outside of like being a wife and a mother and these like different roles that she's created in relationship to Mauricio or even. Deep, more deeply in relationship to like her family, family of origin, whether that's like with Kim and Kathy and Big Kathy and all of that and. It's not so much that the show was a was a thing that broke it but it was another symbol of like there's nothing that's mine and how do I find myself. You know, I always say that I think reality TV does play a role and there's it's hard to separate with them because I don't think without reality TV. It's hard to predict would the agency have been as big as it was? Like, would she have gotten her own fame, made her show American? Like, would all these things happen without the show? Probably not. So it's hard to say that. But in this instant, I actually think they would have ended up in the same spot without the show because of the psychics prediction. Yeah. If this had been a one season, like one off reality shows I still think they would have ended up. Totally. I just think the show is a factor that played into something. You're right. That like already existed, which was like, he does not emotionally fulfill her. Goes back to the psychic like she knew. That should be the quote of this episode. I'm gonna write that in the description. The emotionally unfulfilled Kyle. Yeah. And then what's our next question? Are they good for reality TV? So was their marriage good for reality TV? Maybe that's how it should be. Yeah. Or is there a marriage? Yeah. As a married couple. So. I mean, like, basically the question is, do we want to see this continue to play out next season, right? Is there room for Mo if they're not together? Like, if they're separated and she's gonna be dating, like, does, do we see Mo anymore? I mean, I feel like we definitely see Mo because she says she talks to him every day and they have, they have to file for divorce. But if they continue to have these like vapid scenes, like, do we want to see that? I don't know. I guess the part of me that always gets hyped to see these scenes says yes. Yes. But then they need to be a little bit more satisfying than they were this season. Like, we need a therapist in these scenes who can, like, draw out deeper emotion from the two of them. Because after they film... Did they, did they film with that coach or we just saw the aftermath of, we did see something with that life coach or whatever. Yeah, we did see something. Was, was Mo part of that? I think if they, we didn't see it with him, it was afterward. Again, like, it's so fascinating to me. How, like, I have a blanking of this. I know. I know. Like, the scenes that should be the most pivotal, like, I don't, like, they fly over my head. I'm like, what was that about? And I remember it was a lot about him traveling and not putting into their marriage and that. Because there's nothing that's grounding us to them, right? Like, that's part of the vulnerability that we're looking for from our reality stars is it gives us an anchor to, like, feel more connected. I would like Mo to come on and force some of these conversations. Mm-hmm. I would like Mo to bring his buying Beverly Hills energy to... Yeah. And be like, okay, what are we doing? You know, I think Mo will maybe meet someone and get into a relationship and he'll be forced to at least. I could see that happening. Not right away. I think he's been with Kyle for so long and he's been tied down to one person for so long and he is probably loving Not having like, yeah, he wants to like sow his oats now right like they got together in their 20s like you're so young then that's the time when you should be like going out and partying he's like having to live his 20s now. Yeah. So I think he wants to spend a few years living his 20s. Yeah, it's hard to say because I feel like he became so close to that Dancing with the Stars lady. But I think that was immediate reaction to the separation of like, this is how I'm used to being in relationship. And then he quickly kind of like was like, nope, I want to party. I want to have fun. I want to, I want to be my twenty year old self now. Well, if Kyle's gonna play out this storyline she set up for herself that she's gonna date, then she's gonna be forced to make some more serious decisions But even when she said that, I was kind of like, So you're gonna date Morgan next season. Does that mean Morgan's gonna be on next season? We don't know why she wasn't on this season. Right. Or is it going to be that like, I still want to keep this part of my life private and can Kyle continue to be on the show while guarding a significant portion of her life? I mean, that was, I'm, it's like, do I, I do respect it, but it was, I did feel like at the reunion it was a little bit of a fuck you to the audience. Mm-hmm. Like, you're going to get what you're going to get and like, don't get upset. That's what I teach my son. Yeah. And I mean, in some ways I was like, okay, well, she said it. So it's out there now. Like, it's been said. Mm hmm. But I, I don't, I mean, she'll be back. She'll be back. She is a core anchor of the show. Yeah. I don't see Beverly Hills, unfortunately, without her. I know people can be angry with her and people on both sides. I'd be okay with her being angry. Demoted, not necessarily to like a friend of, but the other ladies being willing to demote her and I think she needs to be humbled in those ways but I don't know that that is what will play out. I totally agree and I think we see a foundation of that happening with her breakup. But Garcelle was the one doing it and. I guess Dorit was also doing it, but I feel like Dorit, as soon as, like, she's good with Kyle, she'll go back to, like, Dorit's so black and white in that way. Like, once you're on, like, if you're with her, you're in her love bubble. I don't think so. I think it's done. I think she's all in on Bose and that's her friend now. And like, I think it's going to come down to Sutton. Like a Sutton was living up her asshole. Mm-hmm. So, but I don't think Sutton is savvy. Like, Sutton's gonna come in and she's gonna see the reaction that she had from last season and she's gonna do a 180. Maybe, but Sutton right now is at a loss of allies, and so she needs an ally, and if Kyle can be an ally, she's not gonna ask Kyle a hard question. Mm-hmm. Well, so I've seen on Braavos and Cocktails, which we're still waiting for our membership, um, that, uh, Erica has been demoted to friend. Right, I saw that too. Which seems fair. Yeah, I mean, she said Garcelle wasn't interesting, but like her only storyline was redoing her apartment. And she gives, I thought she was really great this season. She gave great commentary. But she wasn't doing more than Jennifer Tilly. Oh, yeah. I would love to see Jennifer Tilly as full time. Yeah. Or just friend of. She could be friend of forever. Friend of is better because it's low pressure. And so, like, you can show up more authentically as yourself. Oh, yeah. Okay. So, and we haven't talked about this yet, but I did go see Countess Luanne. How was it? I kept meaning to text you and ask you how it was, but then I remembered I was talking to you today. I've been so busy this weekend, but um, yeah, so I am not a big like go to all the Bravo events because a lot of them are expensive. But it was a friend of the pod, Amy Rodine's birthday. Happy birthday, Amy. Happy birthday, Amy. So we went to see Countess Luanne on Friday and I have to say blew me the fuck away, man. Like blew me away. She's got it. She came on stage. And she's ageless. Like, drop dead gorgeous. Um, she actually is a really good singer. Her show is hilarious. Like, I mean, it is a lot of just her singing and cabaret, but it was still, like, dynamic. Like, she did, like, a Housewives trivia at some point when she went to... She had someone go in the audience and like answer questions and we're at this big theater in LA and it was like packed to the max with the most interesting characters I've ever seen. I saw like a lot of the other like Bravo blog, Bravo Insta people were there too. Really? I've not been keeping up. So I did because when I saw people posting that they were there, I was like, oh, my God, I hope Jenny is like making contacts for us. Clearly that didn't happen. I'm also eight months pregnant. So let's just say like I was standing dancing. That's really the best I had going on. I did see from a distance the guy who does the sup pod or whatever. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, there was a little bit, we, we, we had really good seats, but there was like a pit sort of where it did feel like the fame people. And we were just slightly separated. Um, but she did, um, she had these great music videos that she played with all the housewives and it was just like the whole thing was kitschy and hilarious and funny. I love that. And like, they played old clips from the show and she looks better now than she did back then. Like, I don't know what she does, but whatever she does, do it. Um, she's amazing. I also think, I mean, she's living her best self now. She really- Like, better than before. She really is. And also, like, she just told amazing stories from her life. Like, she told about how she was, like, a nurse and she was gonna marry this guy and then she walked in on him getting a blowjob from- a drag queen and that's why they broke up and that's why she moved to milan to like model and then how she met the count like she had these crazy amazing stories And it reminded me of, um, Dorinda's book about her life and how she, like, lived in England and sold cashmere to Princess Diana. And I'm like, this is why Real Houses of New York doesn't work now. The OG was so good. So good because these women are like, they live. They had real life experiences. They weren't just influencers. Yeah, and like crazy shit. Like she met, you know, the count on the slopes in Swiss Alps and married him two weeks later. Like that is a fascinating person that I want to know. Right. I want to see what they have to give me. Yeah. And it's, and you know, in some ways it's a little unfair because like our generation, the millennials, like we didn't, I did some cool shit, but like a lot of us didn't do like, you know, we lived in a digital age. So it was a little bit like different. But I feel like they should have kept up with the OGs, man. Letting them go was a huge thing. I'll never forgive it. I'll never forgive it. Never forgive it because I'm still like, this woman is fascinating still. I want to know what she does on a day-to-day basis. Well, we're gonna get to see her again soon. I know, and the Love Hotel. I'm not sure how I feel about all these, like, formatted shows, but, like, I'll watch it, obviously. I still really want to watch Denise Richards. Um. Oh, I actually have been watching it because it's like, it's an easy one to watch because I think the episodes are only like thirty minutes. It's really short. Um, but the best episode is the one where she goes to dinner with Charlie Sheen and like just seeing their dynamic is really funny. Oh my gosh. Okay, maybe I'll binge it and then we can do a pod on just her because I'm like slightly interested in that. Um, the valley is so dark. I know I like feel like I want to cover it and yet the darkness just feels really heavy so I maybe maybe one Back from maternity leave or we could do some sort of like hazy maternity episode when it ends and we see how because I feel like it's going to lighten up with Jax being gone. Yeah, I was thinking back to our Jax episode and I was like, oh, my God, I hope we weren't to me more than you, because I had just like. Met him at Jack's bar and he snake charmed me a little bit. Um, but I was like, I hope I wasn't too nice about him because he's truly like a horrible narcissist. Like, I mean, it's rough to watch. what is frustrating is like, Brittany talks about this, like how great he is at charming people and manipulating people and having personally experienced it at Jack's bar. I get it. Um, and it's like, if he could just use that skill for good, like what he could, he could be fucking like, he could be president. I mean, we have a president that's similar to Jack. So why the, I guess he could be pregnant now. I mean, the, I mean, you really see how he treated and like, I don't even want to do a breakdown of Brittany and him because I feel like I just see like Brittany is the victim of, Of a very toxic relationship. Right, and no matter what you look at in her role in it, like, what, you know, if you've done any sort of, like, insight into domestic violence relationships, like, um. The, you know, women struggling to leave or struggling to find their way out of that is a very normal part of that process and does not make them any less of a victim in that circumstance. Yeah. So it's like hard to comment on her. And yeah, and I mean, he hit her like she made a good point on a pod that she was like, I could have called the police. I'm like, you should have called the police. I mean, right. And I don't know. I've been seeing like, should Jax be on the show? I don't know. To be honest, it's kind of dark. I don't know if I really think he should be on the show anymore. Yeah. Yeah. And then watching him continuously, like, make excuses for his behavior feels so ick. I mean, Jessie and Michelle is fascinating to watch. Yeah. Janet is fascinating. Kristen, we're about to see her uprising into engagement and motherhood. I know people like hate Janet, but maybe it's just because I know like Janet and her husband Jason really saved Britney from that whole situation with Jax that it's hard for me to hate her so much. I don't. Why does everyone hate her so much? Well, I don't know. There's something definitely very, like, calculated about her and I don't think it's, like, one thing because I think she is clearly, like, a good friend to people she loves and is a good friend to and then I can also see her as, like, a master manipulator. Yeah, I mean, that scene with all the gay guys they were calling and being like, you can't come to Big Bear, that was like, that was very calculated. Yeah. Yeah, like, I see her calculation, um, but I can also see that, like, when someone is a good friend to her or when she sees someone as a good friend like Brittany, she can be, like, a really amazing friend. I have some issues with the editing on that show, too. Like, honestly, um, because they kept referencing that Zack said all these horrible things. But then they kept just flashing back to him being like, I don't care. And I'm like, that's not so bad. I mean, it's not nice. You shouldn't have said that. But Jenna is saying. But that's not like wishing something bad happened. Yeah. That's not, that's different than him, like, wishing a miscarriage on her or wishing... They make it seem like much darker than the I don't care. Yeah. I mean, there is something really great about the valley in the sense that, you know, you have all these people who are authentically friends. And they seem authentically friends, but the line between what they're doing as just friends and what they're doing for a TV show Is so blurred because it is their identity almost. That's like what's kind of driving the chaos of this show is that they do really hang out off camera. They are really friends. But like, we like, there's no clear boundary of what that is because they're authentically friends. And one of that is because of the TV show. Right. Well, that's like classic Vanderpump rules, right? Like that's why it's so good. It's very Los Angeles too. It's very Los Angeles because they're all in the business and they're all like, so it is their lives because their lives are entertainment and that's how they make their money. Right. Interesting. So, well, yeah, we'll have to do something in the valley. We've definitely got a lot more episodes in us. It just may be a couple episodes. Yeah, there's going to be a short break. We don't want to tell you how long. Yeah, we don't want to, we don't want to make promises. You have to just subscribe and you'll see. But we definitely have at least another one or two episodes in us before that. So subscribe and we'll be back soon. Bye.